Rosemary oil for hair growth? How to spot bad science
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2024
- Is rosemary oil an all-natural, science-backed treatment for hair loss that works as well as minoxidil? No. Let's take a closer look at the study that everyone keeps pointing to...
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0:00 What is rosemary oil meant to do?
1:21 How peer review works
5:42 Never trust the abstract
7:34 The abstract
8:55 The actual paper
9:45 Dermatology problems
11:35 A whole flood of problems
15:20 The "significant" results
17:29 Why people might think it "works"
19:31 My conclusions vs "peer reviewed" conclusions
20:13 What about other evidence? Mechanistic reasoning
23:16 Can it work like finasteride? (5-alpha reductase inhibitor) (No)
25:04 Is rosemary oil worth trying? How to use it and what to try instead
Article with more info and references: labmuffin.com/does-rosemary-o...
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🙋🏻 I'm Michelle, a chemistry PhD, cosmetic chemist and science educator, here to explain how beauty products work, debunk myths, and help you make smarter decisions about your skincare, hair and makeup!
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Had to reupload, audio issues 😅 Sorry this took so long - it was meant to be a quick video about a single paper while I was wrapping up a big Top Secret project (not that secret, will be announced soon) as well as getting married, but then it turned into a Big Thing. Back to our regular schedule!
Congratulations Michelle!!
Congrats! ❤
Congratulations and I was wondering what happened there?😅
Congratulations!
OMG congrats on getting married! 👏🏻
And thats why 'just do your research' falls flat. Most people, myself included, just dont know how to read scientific papers even if we can get past the paywall. Its a shame.
Technocracy🥱😴😴
This sounds a lot like when only the priest class was allowed to read the Bible. Be a lemming at your own risk.
You literally are taught how to do it in high school! I get that it can be tough, but it is a learnable skill that you were already walked through so it’s possible
The hair tiktokers are going to hate this one.
They probably won't see this! You have to question the "science" behind the claims. Hence why we love Lab Muffin.
Zeph Sanders just released his essential oils blend called Mane Elixir Blend containing rosemary oil for $25. He definitely won’t like this news! 😆
TikTok experts (scammers) HATE her 😂
You mean those GenZ numpties who "discover" everything we've already discovered sometimes hundreds of years ago? They will be fuming and not feeling LabMuffins "vibe" =)
i Hate going on tiktok looking for "beauty" tips!!! they always give something - bad for mental health, eugenics, or. simply false!
I have been using rosemary water and oil.
I have suffered from thick painful dandruff all of my life and the rosemary from what have found out is really really good for anti-inflammatory and killing bad bacteria.
My dandruff is almost 100% gone and takes a long time come back.
I used to wash my hair every day because it was so bad but now I can wait a few days before I do.
And now that the dandruff is not blocking my hair follicles my hair can now grow and has gotten really really long.
So rosemary didn’t grow my hair having a healthy scalp did.
Whaaa you mean to tell me things are a little more nuanced than what a piece of paper can get into? 😮
Did you boil rosemary? How often to apply? DYING to get rid of my dandruff!!
Omg how did you apply the rosemary? I'm having similar issues and would appreciate knowing how you used it
@@byunTAEuP
I boil my own fresh rosemary
I usually use about 3 cups of water to one sprig of rosemary and I boil it for about 10-15 minutes or until the water turns a dark green (but not brown) color.
I then dilate it with one part rosemary water to one part normal water.
This should leave you with an almost clear but not quite water.
Keep it in fridge until you are ready to use it (after about 3 days toss it because it spoils).
For application:
In the shower after you have washed your hair apply directly to scalp (I wash my hair in sections) rub it in and wait least 15 minutes before you rinse.
Now if you’re okay with the herby smell you don’t have to rinse.
Now if you use the oil that comes in a bottle you can do the shower steps the same way.
Depending on your hair type you can keep the oil on the scalp.
I don’t recommend leaving it in for 1-3A type hair because it will make your hair look greasy.
If you’re like me and have 4A-4C hair then you can leave the it in the oil.
@@mimo__.-
I boil my own fresh rosemary
I usually use about 3 cups of water to one sprig of rosemary and I boil it for about 10-15 minutes or until the water turns a dark green (but not brown) color.
I then dilate it with one part rosemary water to one part normal water.
This should leave you with an almost clear but not quite water.
Keep it in fridge until you are ready to use it (after about 3 days toss it because it spoils).
For application:
In the shower after you have washed your hair apply directly to scalp (I wash my hair in sections) rub it in and wait least 15 minutes before you rinse.
Now if you’re okay with the herby smell you don’t have to rinse.
Then use your normal after care hair moisturizer
Now if you use the oil that comes in a bottle you can do the shower steps the same way.
Depending on your hair type you can keep the oil on the scalp.
I don’t recommend for 1-3A type hair because it will make your hair look greasy.
If you’re like me and have 4A-4C hair then you can leave the oil in.
Note: you CAN use dried rosemary for rosemary water but I find it’s not as effective.
My wife is a researcher (and I’m not), and I’ve been struggling to understand author drama. She’s also an editor for a few journals. I think this video did a lot to help me understand what she’s going through when publishing/peer review and tearing her hair out (pun intended).
As a researcher, I'm APPALLED that this was published.
Research fraud is rampant because there's this whole mentality of "publish or perish".I can point to the situation with Haruko Obokata. The issue with Obokata's findings were so blatantly obvious and yet the editors didn't pick up on it until other researchers brought it up.
Doctorly perpetuated the same myth
@@KxehjnigrvhtjhejiijjjoowjjjyhcLike Drs Shah and Maxfield but they need to be a bit more skeptical.
@@rumblefish9 we just had the squirrel with four b*alls and an Infinite... reproductive organ this month (midjourney generated images) that made it through peer Review Which is mind boggling. Mistakes are human and made in every process, but research and publishing would need to go down the "quality over quantity" Route way more if we want to mitigate scams and not pump out even more mediocre results to get citation up...
Well, it's not wrong to publish it, but it's not good research, pluss the errors should have been weeded out.
If I handed in a paper like that to a science teacher in like 10th grade I would have almost certainly been failed 💀 the fact that actual scientists made it and “reviewed” it as good is kinda mind blowing to me 😭😭
I have my suspicions about a lot of other failings in the process, but I'm keeping them quiet for now...
Research fraud is rampant because there's this whole mentality of "publish or perish".
@@LabMuffinBeautyScienceooh tea. Spill it queen
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience have you tried to get in contact with the publisher? honestly needs correction or retraction. in my years of biology study I have never come across such a messed up paper!
You’d be surprised. One of my colleagues in undergrad research had to present a paper at a major conference (entire northeast) which stated that they could not replicate results of a peer reviewed paper, following methodology in the paper (not suspicious in and of itself because it might come down to a minor procedural difference or specific chemical supplier) and could not, over the period of a year, contact the original researchers to troubleshoot or verify their procedure (big red flag). Reviewing just means that someone looked at the methodology and data and it “seemed” to be in keeping. Reproducibility is the real proof.
The study was done in reaction to reports that hair oiling works, it didnt start the craze. Indian and pretty much all Middle Eastern cultures practice hair and scalp oiling. We oil our hair because of culture, not because of some study that happened in modern times.
Essentially those seeing results are only seeing them because they have been duped into taking care of their properly by using an oil in this case the "miracle cure" rosemary oil. But it could have worked with a different oil being used just as frequently.
Yes that's true, but the point of the video is to show, that there is little to no evidence for ROSEMARY OIL working specificaly. I'm sure there are a lot of oils that work, maybe just not rosemary
Yep, I think its probably because Indian and Middle Eastern cultures have a culture of taking care of their scalp and hair by using oils, massages, etc. So when you only take the oil from the practice but dont have a healthy scalp or anything else it will not work.
Western world can afford to not oiling hair and shower because they live in cold weather, we can't. We have to oil our hair to keep it moisturized otherwise it becomes dry and rough because of hot weather here.
@@justrandomthinker what kind of western are you talking about? Like, England? Because I was born and live half of my life in a western country that, in it's majority, is warm,as we don't have seasons but we don't use oils. I don't think the weather has anything to do with using oils or nor
I love that you reviewed the study in detail. I’m guilty of believing the abstract 😕
It's hard when you're just a lay person who has no access to the studies. I'm so glad we have Michelle to sort things out!
I had my 12 year old son watch this video, not for the hair loss part but for a beginning understanding the world of science. Thank you for this well put together, unbiased, easy to understand presentation of the process of studies.
He is actually now watching the video about anecdotal evidence of his own free will now :-)
That's so lovely to hear! I really think learning critical thinking at an early age is our best chance at dealing with all this misinformation ❤
Seriously though.... extract that and make it it's own video! It's so good
Love this!!!
Another really great channel for learning to understand how science communications work is Angela Collier. She's really funny and gives a lot of info on how to spot bad science. This video reminded me a lot of her video called "a scary science data story"
Abstract:
"Our findings indicate that Lab Muffin Beauty Science has very little muffin content. We found 0 mention of muffins throughout a large sample (n=420). The differences with the non-muffin control group were insignificant (p
Next video will be on muffins and hair loss!
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience Studies show that eating cupcakes daily can regrow hair. Bonus, it's cheaper and more delicious than rosemary essential oil!
Whoa look at that p-value ;)
Had to stop using it coz had to wash hair daily (unless didn't mind going out with greasy hair) and that cozed my hair to fall out even more!
Peer review was completed with the following feedback: Nice
My PERSONAL experience, is that rosemary oil DID make my hair grow and stop falling out. HOWEVER- I think this has to do with my use of a scalp massager daily, improving blood flow , much more than the oil itself. I would apply the oil and massage it in with a scalp massager every single day and I still do. And my hair IS growing faster and fuller and thicker. But I think it’s from using the massager.
To confirm it’s not personal bias, people who didn’t know I was doing this remarked on how much fuller my hair has been lately and asked what I was doing to make my hair so thick.
Where did you get your scalp massager from?
@@Nimsay1983 just amazon! super affordable. mine is silicone
Oh rosemary oil is miracolous. I had to stop it before becoming too hairy.
It works even better for men.
So, were you suffering some tipe of baldness like diffuse thinning and this method fixed It?? Really interested
@@delaslightdid you watch the video?
Thank you for this comprehensive video.
Lesson: Be skeptical of everything, not matter how many times people repeat it.
Honestly, when people only have ONE study, that already raises red flags. For something to be concrete, its results should be able to be replicated in other studies. If there's just the one, and it's from almost a decade ago, I'm gonna take it with a grain of salt.
Yes! I came across a few doctors saying this on social media which was really nice (in between all the doctors promoting it...)
I have to credit my professors for making me suspicious of research that does not have evidence of repetition by unrelated researchers/unrelated research sites getting similar results. The paywall issue is real, because abstracts may be the best writing the research team did.
Reminds of the study homophobes love to use to convince people that queer people are not suitable parents, which apparently ‘showed’ that ‘Lesbian couples are more abusive towards each other compared to heterosexual couples’ and they always use this ONE study to *back it up*. Funny thing was, you can tell these people are not academics, I have read the academic source and it has never claimed that DV is more common in lesbian relationships, what it DID say was that lesbian women (and bisexual women) are more likely to have experienced DV THROUGHOUT their lives, that includes abuse from previous male partners and abuse from family. It also showed statistics that these women have experienced abuse mainly from the men in their lives. People really just go with what’s popular on the internet
Agree 100%! And a double blind study or two would be nice.
Exactly. For such a referenced study, it doesn't seem to be reliable at all. Especially since this data is most likely quantitative so other studies could easily be done to check if the initial research conclusion was indeed correct or not.
This is always the first thing I find suspicious, especially on the internet (Besides just saying a study and not even specifying it which I take as absolute BS), when only ONE study is referenced time and time again. It's just unfortunate it came from "trusted" individuals so if I'm being honest, if not for this video, I would've let the rosemary oil study go and believe it is true (Even if my initial reaction is disagreement on it actually working) so I'm glad I stumbled on this video, especially since most of the people shown pop up on my shorts
This shows that even "experts" are not infallible.
Dermatologists are absolutely the best source when it comes to getting information for overall skin health and improving skin function, but that doesn't necessarily mean they know how every active used on skin and hair work, or how they behave in specific formulas.
Cosmetic chemists don't have the same extent of knowledge on skin itself, but they're a necessary check and balance for dermatologists, and can give more insight when it comes to actual products and ingredients.
I'm not remotely shocked that "skinfluencers" with no credentials didn't look into the Rosemary study, but I'm a bit disappointed at how many social media derms ran with the myth 🥴
I asked a few derms about why they think this happened - it seems like the training on interpreting new evidence is very variable for doctors. So while some doctors participated in journal clubs or are used to reviewing the literature, others assume that if it's in PubMed it's automatically legit.
It's a really difficult situation for consumers - it's hard to work out exactly what different expertises are (before talking to the derms I thought medical doctors all got trained in assessing the literature!). I don't know what the best solution is.
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience I actually learned more about properly reading and analyzing research in a required undergrad course than I ever did in medical school. Doctors that are more into lifelong research and academia probably don't have a ton of time to be influencers though.
@@omgitschristina0 I concur! Not a doctor but a policy analyst by trade and I find it shameful our standard practices aren’t taught outside of electives in undergrad.
It's true i am a baby doc and we aren't trained in reading literature. I am trying to learn and hopefully can bring my patients the best info possible
@@LabMuffinBeautyScienceI like the videos of The Budget Dermatologist and often recommend them to people, but she seems to be moving toward the “natural” products advocacy and Im disappointed.
crazy breakdown of all the issues. i fell right into that trap just looking at the abstract, other factors listed on the first page. hope this video reaches a lot of people. glad to have u!
Oh no! I definitely fell for this one. I felt comfortable enough knowing there was a peer-reviewed study, so I never looked into it any further. Very informative and helpful video, thank you.
I want to take a round trip train ride and airdrop this to everyone along the way. Science literacy is much harder than just "do your research" online!!thank you for your careful and clear explanation
Thank you!
i mean.. the video is about "doing your research" tho. she's just teaching people how to do it properly
Exactly.... so many people think that listening to a 30 minute infomercial from a single person with Dr in front of their name counts as "research." The first thing you should do, after seeing 5 minutes of that video, is look for "is Dr. so and so selling snake oil" because odds are good that 90% of the answers will immediately be YES.
"do your research" online is quite essentially scientific literacy.
Something to also consider is that based on other studies on 2% minoxidil, this study showed WAY less hair growth on 2% minoxidil over 6 months than we normally would expect 2% minoxidil over 6 months to give. This makes the constant comparisons in efficacy of rosemary oil to minoxidil 2% that people make based on this study even more dubious due to minoxidil 2%’s strange underperformance in this study compared to how it normally performs.
Yes! Although there is also some talk about how some of the other components in minoxidil formulas might be causing growth too - I came across some discussion about propylene glycol, but I didn't go deeper down that rabbit hole (it was a sub-rabbit-hole already)
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience Tbh my suspicion was that they weren’t even applying the 2% minoxidil correctly in this study.
Usually we would expect to see about a 20-28% increase in hair counts in 2% minoxidil over 6 months and a 26-32% increase in hair counts of 5% minoxidil over 6 months. This study only showed a 2% increase in hair counts on minoxidil over 6 months. Rosemary oil showed a 6% increase in hair counts over 6 months. That’s why it’s misleading to say that rosemary oil showed similar hair growth to 2% topical minxoidil. On top of this being both an extremely poor quality study with a lack of replication, unlike the studies on minoxidil which have been both high quality and replicated, even in this study rosemary oil showed just a 6% increase over 6 months compared to 20-26% with 2% topical minoxidil over 6 months. That’s why even if this study’s rosemary oil results were accurate, the 6% increase would STILL be way less impressive than the 20-26% increase we see in high quality studies on 2% minoxidil.
Also minoxidil foam doesn’t contain propylene glycol and people still seem to get good results from it. So I don’t think this is due to a lack of propylene glycol as that wouldn’t explain an only 2% increase in hair counts on topical minoxidil. I’ve also never heard of propylene glycol causing hair growth before and I’m fairly familiar with hair loss research.
They may have simply just been putting it on their hair rather than applying it to the scalp, and they may also have not been massaging it into their scalp like you’re meant to do with topical minoxidil. Considering how low quality this study was this wouldn’t surprise me if this was the case. They may have not told the participants to apply it the right way or even told them to apply it in an incorrect way, whether intentionally or unintentionally. They also don’t specify where they applied the minoxidil so they could have been applying the minoxidil to a place not even affected by androgenetic alopecia.
@@meltedsnowman9637Hi I was wondering if you could perhaps help me. I have an issue with hairloss, I have been suffering from male pattern baldness which starts around the temple and have been taking minoxidil 5% with okay to good results, I was wondering if this will be a lifelong commitment, like if and when I stop it, will I get back to my bald self? Also, can I up my dosage of Minoxidil to around 20%? I am desperate for my hair to grow back because I am only in my early 20s and people think I'm already 50. Thank you.
The problem with minoxidil is once you start using it you have to keep using it forever because if you stop all the new hair falls out. When I lost my hair the specialist recommended rosemary oil first before looking into chemicals. So I bought some and actually over 2yrs it's helped so much I have almost regrown my hair, but like anything it works for some not for others. I lost my hair due to stress but I definitely don't think rosemary oil would work for alopecia and mpb etc and I think it's wrong to give people with those conditions hope.
@princessmimithepug6719 You would have lost that hair anyway tho, because you were already balding. So of course you have to keep using the medication in order for it to keep working. That's... how treatments work. If rosemary oil worked, it would work exactly the same way. If you stop treating hair loss, then yeah, you lose your hair again.
I did no research, just made a green tea and rosemary containing concoction with some ginseng and castor oil, used it consistently for a month along with scalp massage and forgot about it. 2 months later, I have a new halo of baby hairs from all the regrowth. No idea what caused my massive hairloss, so I have no idea what the action was, or which part of the concoction did the things, or if it was just the placebo effect- either way I'm grateful and I'm not going bald anymore. I agree that citing 'Science' where its just bad science is just not on, but maybe scientists should be doing more studies on the things that are used so as to clear them for safety and dosage. As it stands, if scientists have not researched something, it is just rubbished as bad, whereas there are many 'home remedies' that bear looking into. Great video- thank you for posting!
Sorry this a stupid question, you put the tea concoction on your head? First time hearing about something like this
Maybe it was the castor oil? Or the ginseng? Idk
There's no way all of that surpessed DHT
Thank you so much for this channel. I just found it today and found it amazing.
also using the depression scale to measure hair loss is WILD!!
I'd guess someone confused the Hamilton Scale for Depression with the Hamilton-Norwood Scale for male pattern balding... but how?? It was 2015 so it couldn't have been ChatGPT...
Ikr? Like if they just said “The Hamilton scale” I might let it slide, but they specifically said it was the scale for depression! Did they not read their own paper???
congrats-you have just measured the placebo effect XD
I made a rosemary tincture by combining rosemary oil and boiled down rosemary water (tea, if you will) and I noticed nothing eithe. EXCEPT that the health of my scalp improved a lot. I am prone to developing a lot of dandruff, especially during colder months and the rosemary tincture has kept my scalp clean and happy, which also helps with hair growth due to the reduced oil and dandruff production. So in case of that, this MIGHT help you with those issues specifically. Other than that? Humbug...
Edit: YOUR ANALOGIES ARE THE BEST! Your metaphors whenever you explain something to us hit SO GOOD, EVERY 👏SINGLE 👏TIME 👏
Yeah, I suspect that for some people, the act of massaging oil into their scalps could be helpful - whether it's the massage aspect, or dislodging debris (like oil cleansing), or just acting as a moisturiser.
And thank you! I try very hard with my analogies 😊
Just a question: since the tincture is water based, wouldn’t the combo separate when you put the oil and tincture in a bottle?
i use rosemary oil and my scalp feels great, it's also nice to use on the lengh too for more helthier look
This is so interesting to note! How the root of it may be from helping to cleanse thus allow better growth.
It may also explain why it's drying for some people who don't have scalp issues per se, possibly? Thank you for sharing!🙏🏼
@@user-xu4uh1wp7tif I’m correct, rosemary water is an astringent, which can cause dryness. That’s why I also stopped using it lol, but might want to get back into it for the other benefits lol, we’ll see 😂
I wish I could say this in a way that doesn’t sound overly sentimental but I got really into your videos in 2020/21 and I didn’t realize how much comfort they brought me during that time until I clicked on this and it took me back, like when you smell an old perfume you used to wear all the time. You were like my hbomberguy of skincare/haircare science. Didn’t mean to stop watching, my algorithm would have to answer to that
Ok now to actually watch the video
Don't ever stop. Absolutely love this analysis.
Finally, a scientist being critical of the science presented elsewhere and informative. Many doctors and "experts" repeat lies over and over. It is sad to see that people with an MD degree cannot even give good advice about their own field! It seems like they either never read the scientific literature or do not understand what they read.
Because scientific literature is more on the academic side. I wish research was a bigger component of medical education, but there is only so much time and the clinical side tends to dominate. It’s hard to understand from the outside, but there is a lot of siloing that goes on in medicine and it’s not because practitioners are lazy. It’s because they’re essentially two separate educational tracks (PhD vs MD).
You’d not learn too much about scientific research and interpretation in med school
@@mozorellastick2583 that is so true
@@d3pr0fundis That is a very good point that will benefit doctors
@@d3pr0fundis my general experience (as someone with a PhD and certainly not an MD) is that doctors generally have very little awareness of scientific literature, with the potential exception of being in their specific treatment sub-field.
If you want to be horrified, take a look at surveys of pain management treatment doctors/APRN's against the state of the art research. Many practicing pain management doctors have very little understanding of the actual functioning of these medications, to the point of some clinics expelling patients when smaller quantity metabolites of the very drugs they prescribe show up in patient urine once the patient dose is increased.
Edit: With that said, I'd be absolutely up a creek without a paddle when it comes to clinically treating people. Main point, MD and PhD are different pursuits with different strengths.
I read this paper a couple years ago and missed so many of the points you’ve brought up. This is a great video that I will begin showing my college science students. It’s is a really great explanation of publishing and about forming opinions about papers.
Thank you! I didn't spot a lot of the issues in my first few readthroughs too - it actually felt like it was going against my research reviewing practices to put any more mental effort into closely reading a paper that I already knew was seriously flawed, my brain switched off right after I saw the duplicated hair counts.
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience one thing to consider further is the journal itself and if it's even equipped with the knowledge they are publishing. Skindmed says on their Website they are for dermatologists and a "didactic resource of clinical content for nondermatologists" which for me in publishing would open up the question if they even have the knowledge in their peer reviewers to assess papers like this. This is always an unknown and should be mitigated in the process through the EiC and other Editors. Also why open peer Review as a concept was introduced (which has pros and cons, but would be way more transparent in such instances)
Great video! And congratulations on getting married!
I sincerely wish there was a version of you educating the public in every possible area, all the time. I totally got behind everything green and natural until I finally dug in to try to understand sunscreen and found my way to you. I appreciate everything about your approach: your are thorough and thoughtful; you use creative, helpful metaphors; your hold people accountable without being cruel or unkind; you empower us with tools for our own critical thinking; and you have a matter-of-fact air of authority without any snobbishness. You are what the world needs.
Props for your overview about peer review. This is pretty helpful for any stem student and I will use this in the future.
This again proves what a fantastic educator you must be 😃
Thank you for this! As a hairdresser, I've been recommending this as a treatment to my male clients in the early stages of male pattern baldness. After seeing so many medical professionals endorse it, i assumed it was a very good option. Will be changing my tune.
FWIW, rosemary oil isn't a BAD option for someone who cant/won't use minoxidil. Massage with rosemary oil stimulates circulation, dislodges trapped debris & moisturizes, so it's not entirely without benefit. The paper these people are citing doesn't prove its claim that rosemary is comparably effective-- but that doesn't mean that Rogaine is the only way to go. I would recommend clients start massage & scalp skincare before referring them a drug
Hairdressers aren't supposed to be treating anything. If someone has a medical issue, they need a specialist. Why give advice based on hearsay and harm people's chances of actually improving? :/
@@margodphd- It’s worth trying before going the medication route.
Not everyone’s body can handle medications - such as myself.
And it isn’t always easy, for everyone, to find a doc who’s gonna be knowledgeable in this area of expertise - or, perhaps, they do not have the financial means..
There are so many reasons as to why going to a doctor isn’t a person’s first thought, when dealing with hair loss.
For example, as a former hairstylist who specialized in men’s cuts, men aren’t as apt to go to the doctor, in general - and especially for something such as hair loss.
Perhaps more men are becoming open to it, nowadays, though, in my experience - they tend to not be.
Yet, men tend to REALLY trust their hairstylists.
Many will tell their hairstylists things, more than they will their wives.
Hell, some men are more committed to one hairstylist than they are their own romantic partner (obviously, I am not referencing in an inappropriate way).
It isn’t our job to diagnose anything, correct.
Though, it is our job to recommend things we think might be worth trying to solve whatever issue One may have around their hair, within reason - while, of course, the client knows to follow whatever recommendation under their own discretion.
@@avemazov- Well stated. I 100% agree.
@@margodphdhow many men do you think go to the doctor to address hair loss?
this is so informative. thank you! ive been skeptical abt the number of doctors and content creators citing that one study, and turns out, im not the only one
I LOVE this. The guided breakdown for reading a paper was excellent. Would love more of this critical reading of research content!!
Oh my goodness - the errors you point out are spectacularly bad. I didn't realize depression scales were based on degree of male pattern baldness. Most women must be over the moon with joy!
From a quick google search, it seems like there is an actual male alopecia scale called the Norwood-Hamilton scale, so it seems they got that mixed up with the Hamilton rating system for depression. Pretty funny that supposed experts made that mistake!
Some go Norwood at 16@@smilies66
@@smilies66that would be hilarious, if it wasn't that bad 😂
@@smilies66lol wow....
I am a woman with hair loss we exist😭
O M G. I can't tell you how relieved I am is to see this video. for years now I've been trying to tell everyone how bad this study is, and it's so frustrating to these medical professionals make tiktoks about it. To me it's just so disappointing to see because it just shows that they never even tried to the read the study, and go on to tell their viewers about making it seem more legit.
Sometimes I wonder if some of the bigger creators (like doctor youn) actually bother to create their own content, or just read a script from their social media team without fact checking it. Very alarming.
On the topic of anecdotal evidence, the only time I've seen rosemary working was for people that had telogen effluvium either from something like stress or childbirth, which eventually resolves on it's own.
We should keep in mind that medical doctors aren't scientists or researchers
@@Vasilia4 we are trained to read scientific articles. There is no excuse.
@@BlueElieASMRtrue, although with the relative specificity of both medical and research professions, it can be harder to discern bad design in one direction versus the other. For example, a med doc would be more cued to inappropriate sampling for clinical studies whereas a molecular doc would see inaccuracy in cellular assessment more easily. Either way, you are correct that anyone trained to read articles of this sort should be able to see glaring red flags like these.
People didn’t want to pick the study apart because they wanted it to be true!!! At least, I know I wanted it to be true 😂
I think Dr. Youn has sold out.
Michelle as an academic thank you so much for this fantastic episode! Thanks for such an elegant explanation of the peer review system… Peter Boghossian and James Lindsay have been discussing a lot of these issues.
Thank you for cutting through all of this stuff and providing an accessible overview to the process for peer reviewing.
I did the rosemary oil for about 8 months with zero change.
I couldn’t get past day 1 because it made my scalp itch so bad…for a few days.
At least you smelled like fancy pasta
@@katherineofarrogant6370 If someone puts rosemary in your pasta don't trust them lol
@@mkryu Argh I think "essential oils are common irritants" is a standard part of the dermatology syllabus? But while making this video I found a derm who recommended using rosemary oil undiluted on your scalp, and then say that if it wasn't working for you, it was because you weren't using it twice a day...
I tried to replicate the experiment, but I couldn’t figure out the concentration used in the study, which made me start to lose a lot of faith. Glad you’re debunking it now. Bummer that it doesn’t work. I can’t use minoxidil, so I was falsely hopeful. Oh well.
This is such a small nitpick but any statistical results reported using 3d and gradient-coloured bar charts seems immediately suspect. It's like they're using the fancy shapes to hide their bad methodology.
Hahaha the 3D graphs were a big red flag to me too, but I thought it would be too petty to bring it up! It's like, what a 6th grader who's never seen a scientific study would think looks impressive.
It's not even a small nitpick though! Using angled 3d cylinders to visualise column charts is another trick to obfuscate results. Quite deceptive and the paper would be rejected by many journals on this alone.
I immediately thought that gradient was sus. They were trying to use "flashy" graphics to obfuscate bad science. It's sad so many influencer docs fell for SQUIRREL!!!
idk I can see it being used as a colorblind-friendly alternative to colored bar charts. Just grayscale would be waaay more typical and professional though.
There's plenty of other standard ways of showing graphs that work in B&W without confusing gradients, they were used in older papers before colour printing was cheap! Usually different block patterns - solids, stripes in different directions, dots...
I love seeing you go through methods. Fantastic vid
Thank you for creating this content. i’m chem undergrad and I hated having to read science journals and I got used to em only after LOOOTTTS of hard grinding. Watching this video just made it easier for me to read em and I think you’re so cool and admirable for making content that makes science journal & media literacy A LOT more accessible. I love it.
I agree with your comment. I can't read long articles and papers any longer. Just too difficult and a lot of syllables.
And into my curriculum on media literacy this video goes! High school English teacher here.
Your students will love Michelle!
I work for a scientific journal (in biomaterials), and this paper has me 🤦♀️... Did anyone even *eyeball* those numbers?? Not to accuse anyone of anything, but this sounds like the product of one of those pay-to-publish journals that doesn't really have peer review. (No shade on Open Access itself!) We're a quantitative journal in the first place, so this would *never* fly, but every paper has to go by at least three, usually four scientists (and me) before it's even sent back for revision. I'm surprised no one has asked the authors for a retraction - and that so many other researchers just dittoed this without reading.
Thank you for taking the time to explain peer reviews. This video should be shown in schools.
i love your channel so much, i’m going through all your vids. It’s so important to de-influence with actually logic and evidence verses fear baiting and fomo on social media
I feel like i need a degree just to know who or what to believe. Granted, if schools taught a critical-thinking based curriculum, it probably wouldn't be so hard.
There is a subject called 'philosophy' in several countries. Unfortunately, not in all for political reasons.
I’m a librarian so in university we learn a lot about different sources, how scientific journals and scientific publishing in general works and how to critically evaluate sources in their trustworthiness. It makes sense considering it is part of our job to provide trustworthy information but I thought everyone in university learns the basics of that. You have to write your own papers after all. I was completely mindblown to learn how many people don’t even know their own university library catalogue.
By now a lot of libraries have workshops, seminars and more to teach people information literacy and librarians in university libraries should also be able to tell you if a source is trustworthy or help you figure that out together (just like what this video is doing).
Anyway what I mean to say is that there are people who actually kind of have a degree in this and they are there to help you :)
(In many countries at least. I don’t really know a lot about the standards of librarianship all around the world)
I mean all the doctors that bought into it have MDs and PhDs so unfortunately degrees don't make you infallible to misinformation :(
@R_S747 true. Tbh though I was thinking of just an education in how to research or something 😅. This doesn't just happen in one specific field, or even with people with degrees. Some laymen are more informed than professionals, it's just hard to tell. 🤷♀️
@@RainCheck797 nah I get what you mean I don't have a degree in science or anything and I often feel so lost when it comes to this type of thing haha
This is CRAZY. I feel like I'm witnessing a turning point in history 🤧 Almost every single rosemary haircare post/video I've seen mentioned this study, and of course I believed it to.
Now I'm sure the comments will start to flood with references to this video!
Insane 😭 Thank you SO MUCH for your service for us lay(wo)men, WE APPRECIATE YOU AND ALL THE EFFORT THAT GOES INTO EDUCATING US ALL 😭😭👏🏼❤
im so glad i found her!
honestly tho, rosemary water did help w hair growth
I guess everyone’s different? Idk
@@jemimarauf1486there could also be a myriad of other reasons WHY it works though.
massaging your scalp can help, less stress, using other products alongside the rosemary and even placebo.
@@jemimarauf1486The act of applying rosemary oil to the scalp (massaging the scalp) plus the anti inflammatory properties can benefit the health of your scalp, but if you have some kind of condition that is making your hair fall out - like PCOS, rosemary can’t fix that. If your hair grows back with rosemary chances are it was going to grow back regardless :/
@@jemimarauf1486placebo effect
thank you SO much! have been hoping for this specific topic to get covered, and the breakdown of how to interpret studies is so helpful
THANK YOU for doing the hard work of reviewing this study and its problems. I also appreciate your recommendation and hope you continue to debunk bad science in beauty products.
I’m so glad I found your channel! I’m a hairstylist and it’s impossible to weed through all the misinformation we’re fed
People are trying to push y'all product as much as possible. 😢
I’ll repeat my comment: I love how you went through the whole research paper to show how even a layperson like me could identify dodgy science. It was super informative
Wow! Thank you! Your research is eye-opening! I've always wondered about the peer-review process.
loved this video, you went over the peer review process so well. I liked the transparency, that's how good science happens
I suspect any change is due to the act of massaging oil onto the scalp rather than the oil itself. I massage oil on my scalp regularly just because it gets dry in the winter. Thank you for the fantastic video, it's very informative! :)
Yes probably i never massaged my hair before using it and i used it while pregnant wich is known to leave your hair shiny and healthy
I massage my hair I used always homemade oils then I switched to rosemary and there was very clear difference lots of new hair so it does help but massaging on it own does help too
I was in a research lab where my professor would walk through relevant papers every other week and criticize issues about their interpretation or results. It was really eye opening because these were papers that didnt have such obvious errors, yet the jumps in conclusion really weren’t supported
So grateful for your channel and your work 🙏🏼
You have the best beauty science channel on youtube. Thank you for your work!
I love your mission not just to share information about the efficacy of beauty trends/treatments, but you also use that as an opportunity to improve scientific literacy. People are a lot harder to fool when we know how to fact check ourselves. Thank you!
Already watched and enjoyed earlier but I’ll let it run on my laptop for the algorithm. Good work on this one!
Thank you so much 😭 My tech failings don't make the TH-cam gods happy!
Some of your best work yet 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻
THANK YOU for doing the live session with GlamGirlGabi. I have been subscribed to you both for some time. Loved the information you provided! Would be fantastic to see you do that again.
Thank you so much for taking the time to do this! It's bad enough that so many content creators jump on these trends, perpetuating bad science unwittingly... but some of them I suspect are even aware of it and just don't care. One "trichologist" in particular that I used to follow was posting about Rosemary WATER.. and just straight up DELETED any critical questions in the comment section..
I'm a med student from Europe (29, F). Michelle, I can't even describe how thankful I am for the knowledge you put out there. You're a powerhouse, no joke. These things are extremely important to know cause in the end, in science (and in general) there should be no misinformation. Facts are facts, period. Anything that's not a fact is a lie. And I'm surprised how many scientist are willing to believe lies and spread lies. It's appaling. And no, sadly doctors are not experts when it comes to assessing studies. But whether you're a doctor or not, critical thinking and learning HOW to do critical thinking are crucial for not only science, but literally every part of our lives. Again, a huge thank you Michelle, keep going strong sister ❤
Thanks for this, reignites my passion for science and even for wiriting those articles
I’m planning to show this video in my college composition class for our science communication unit. What a great, visually pleasing, and funny overview on evaluating sources!
thank you for covering this! crazy how much misinformation can spread on TikTok - especially when there’s a motive to sell products / get commission
As someone who works in scientific publishing, love the short and sweet explanation of research and peer review! And a mention of Elizabeth Bik, queen of finding dogdy evidence in papers.
thank you for correcting the misinformation. and also thank you for the paper cutout portion, that was very cute & informational.
Glad you enjoyed it! 😊
appreciate the hard work and research that went into this video!
Michelle, I cant tell you how much joy I get from you constantly dragging these social media doctors.
Also, just bought some stuff from your shop
I love your username
@@maryeckel9682 ty bb
Michelle, thank you so much for posting this! As someone who is losing hair, but can’t get a concrete diagnosis why, you start to feel desperate. I went to a dermatologist who told me that it could’ve been caused by stress, Covid, or possibly androgenetic alopecia. What a way to narrow it down! She then told me to use minoxidil for 3 months to boost my hair growth, which didn’t make any sense to me. Everything I have ever heard about minoxidil is that it is a lifelong commitment. I did try rosemary oil since I am afraid to use minoxidil as some women develop hirsutism as a side effect. However, it was too greasy for me to use twice daily. I was about to make rosemary water, but your video has now dissuaded me from trying to go that route. I know I need to see a new dermatologist (as well as an allergist and a rheumatologist), however I am in the U.S. and waiting to have my new insurance kick in and find someone that might be of more help. Again, thank you for making the science of beauty products easily understandable, and being unbiased to the products you review. P.S. Congrats on the nuptials!
My dermatologist told me you have to use minoxidil for at least eight months in order to see results. I didn’t start seeing hair growth until the ninth month (and I only use it once a day). She also said women should not use 5% minoxidil, as it could cause facial hair growth. I tried rosemary oil for an entire year with no results.
I’m having the same issue and feeling a bit hopeless 😞 but I do have a bunch of vitamin deficiencies so I think it’s that in my case. Good luck ❤
@@CH-vf5ysdid your hair fall out more before it started growing back?
This is such a good point about issues like this. Snake oil looks very attractive when there aren't any other viable options, because at least you're doing something.
A friend of mine has hair loss because of a too high testosterone level. Her entire family on the female side is struggling with this though so it wasn’t a surprise when she also started becoming bald. She also used minoxidil. From what I know from her 3 months is basically the minimum you have to take it, if you want to see results. But the moment you stop loosing it, your hair falls out again. So in that sense it is a lifetime commitment. But you could use it for 3-4 months to see if there are even results (I have no idea if it mostly works for specific conditions) and how much results you can get. My friend for example gave up after a year I think. For her the result was so minimal that it wasn’t worth the effort for her.
This video was so good. Really interesting and its way more than just a debunking of a paper, but also loved the whole philosophy of science and methodology explanations. They're really important to keep us critical towards scientific research. I didn't knew your channel and I immediately subscribed already.
As a med student I find it extremely concerning to see that some of my future colleagues either don't feel responsible for verifying the medical claims they make to a largely non-expert audience, or maybe genuinely don't know how to do that. I mean in this case it's "only about a beauty issue" (not to downplay the significance, I suffered from hair loss myself and it's disheartening) and thankfully rosemary oil probably isn't a very dangerous substance to recommend...but I think we can all imagine how this could take a pretty serious turn with more severe conditions D:
So thank you for enabling people to verify that kind of information themselves - it's a crucial skill in all areas of life. Really sad that these are usually hidden behind college/university walls, when we should really be teaching everyone
A note on research paper access: most research librarians I know are equally frustrated by paywalls, so they may be able to get you a copy of a paper or find you a workaround if you really need a paper. Also contacting the authors directly might get you a copy.
That said, your breakdown of the problems with the paper is fascinating, and it's nice having an explanation for why the whole rosemary for hair growth wasn't vibing right to me.
Thank you SO much for this deep dive! It's hard to research on our own when being an active member of the scientific community, let alone a general consumer. I'm currently having a bad reaction to a rosemary product and attributed it to a bunch of other things besides the product itself. Once I narrowed down my variables, it's clear to see the product was the culprit, despite so much information stating the contrary, and very little speaking about negative effects or calling them "outliers."
Thank you so much for what you do for all of us consumers AND the scientific community- keep fighting the good fight!
Now, if you could possibly do a deep dive into the iRestore red light therapy helmet for hair loss and regrowth... The depth of my appreciation could not be expressed in words.
Sending so much love, respect, and gratitude from Southern California
have been curious about this topic for a while. Thank you for making such a thorough analysis on the 2015 paper.
What a video! Great work and really appreciate the effort put into it
Science content so good I’m purposefully watching ads to support this 🔥
Thank you, I really appreciate it!
When I was at university (linguistics), we were taught to read the abstract first to see if the study is applicable to what you're researching, then the results, then the conclusion/methodology (it's been a few years, I can't remember which came first), and then the introduction. You were taught to basically never read it in order and to never draw conclusions from the abstract if you didn't see the results. I had assumed that that was being taught across all disciplines, especially the ones focussed on science and research...but I guess not! Either I had good lecturers and a better uni than I thought or some people weren't there for when their lecturers told them to not do this. Regardless, I think it should be more common knowledge and taught more widely, because that not only helped a lot to work out what I was looking for when I was doing research, but it also made it so much quicker because I wasn't reading the whole study like I was before!
Although now I'm not in uni I have to just guess with the abstract because I can't access the journals for free through the university library anymore 😭
Edit: I just can't get over using a rating system for depression as a measurement of hair loss. Like I keep trying to work out if it was a mistake or if they actually quantified hair loss by asking if someone had been feeling down for more than half the last week. I've had to take those kinds of screening/rating systems a lot as I have mental health issues and no one has ever said if my hair is good or not after it! I want to go back to university at some point in the near future, so I'll make sure to include a rating system for OCD when discussing phonology and see how much my lecturers agree with my methodology. I'm expecting full marks.
I've been taught that order too! I think it's a bit harder to apply that if you aren't already somewhat familiar with the area, so my strategy as someone who reads a wide range of papers is to read it in order, but don't trust a single word from the abstract, intro, discussion or conclusion until I've cross-checked against papers/reviews/textbook chapters from the leading researchers in the field.
They actually used the balding scale in the paper, but wrote "Depression" in the methods... which is absolutely bizarre? I can't think of how that ended up in there - it's like an autocomplete mistake, but the paper was published in 2015. Maybe they paid a history undergrad to write it up?
I was taught the same reading order when I was in college for chemistry - as part of the same seminar we talked about journalists misrepresenting studies and some of the common signs of academic fraud, and just generally building the skills to tell good science from bad. I wish that sort of course was mandatory to get a degree regardless of field, but I doubt that will happen any time soon. (That description makes it sound super boring, but it wasn't at all! We even got to spend a whole class session trashing Michael Crichton's incredibly inaccurate depiction of nanotechnology.)
Wow, I must not have had the kind of tutors who would know or teach their students this. I was a linguistics and literature student, even did critical thinking but never was taught to do this for research papers. Thanks for educating me 20 years on.
I was told by my linguistics professor to question every news article and report and to be fully aware that there's an agenda and lies being told.
That was massive for me at age 19.
Then I forgot and only when I went down the rabbit hole did I see how much deceit there is in the world.
No surprise that this channel has done well... rather sophisticated ideas expressed with great clarity and even creativity in the examples. A tonne of effort in each video too!
As usual, this video is excellent
Congratulations on the marriage Michelle!! Keep up the excellent work.
Thanks for this video.
You're so bright and clear in your explanations, it's a joy to listen to.
I wish all scientists were like you, in pursuit of truth with integrity and without ego or corruption. You have a new subscriber.
Thank you for the Study evaluation thats sadly not common for many ❤
Rosemary doesn't work as well as minoxidil. but combined with peppermint oil it worked to grow back my hair that was thinning due to traction alopecia
Wow, you aced!🤩
I am struggelling with reading and interpreting papers and your video was very informative. 🙏
I came for rosemary and stayed for the science 😍
YOU ARE SO IMPORTANT, Michelle!!! Thank you so much for this!!! I wish people like you had millions and millions of subcribers/followers.
I learned more in this 30 minute video than I learned in a week of school. Thank you
My friend uses rosemary oil and lets it sit on her scalp overnight and then washes her hair in the morning, it has grown her hair from shoulder length to the middle of her back in a year or so…
That's pretty normal growth, average is 14 cm per year.
@@LabMuffinBeautyScience her hair doesn’t grow like that, and I’ve used it too…my hair doesn’t grow quickly like barely 1 cm in 5 months type of growth and mine grew a bunch .. I’m not trying to argue or anything but I’m just saying maybe it works better for other people than others Yk?
@@100Thleah She can't accept that, she's a penguin. Her own videos talking about scientific studies and how just because a study says an ingredient is effective and low irritancy does not mean that 1. It will be effective for you, 2. that it will not cause irritation. Niacinimide is the best example, one of the safest most effective and studied ingredients turns out to be extremely irritated for far more people than the studies would suggest now that it's being used on a massive scale. Her video about retinoids talks about how adapalene, tazarotene were made to theoretically reduce irritation compared to tretinoin turned out to not actually be less irritating. People who have never used retinoids experience almost the same level of purging (if not worse) compared to tretinoin despite the studies and pharmaceutical companies (which she spends most of her channel defending and promoting) claiming to prove otherwise. At the end of the day everything is subjective, and I personally know tons of people who have benefited from rosemary oil and have documented their experience even though for me it personally didn't work. That does not make their experience any less valid and it is absolutely far and beyond safer and cheaper to try vs minxodial which WE KNOW can cause severe side effects especially at the beginning.
@@100Thleaha lot of eastern cultures oil their hair. It’s just a way of deep conditioning and can be done with pretty much any oil, I like to use coconut or rose. It’s just taking good care of your hair, not the type of oil but that you are using oil.
@@Zhipaipai what r u yapping about
Really Awesome Video. The introduction, the explanation , the breaking down of paper ( I am still 8 mins in the video) . It all very clear and very good not just for this topic but for anyone new to academia. Thanks a lot for making this video !!!!
wait... i LOVED the hand-drawn hand-pushed icons!!! please do more!
I mean it been working for me so far. My hair all of a sudden started falling out rapidly and there was noticeably less hair, lucky for me my hair is curly so it covered up the areas with less. After maybe 2 months of 2 times a week i started to see some improvement, Less hair loss, and a few months after that my hair waa definitely coming back. I always gave myself hair oil scalp massages before using rosemary oil, that I make at home, before my hair fell out lol and that's literally the only thing in my life that changed
Brilliant analysis!!
oh my days, this is literally a critical appraisal, I am currently learning how to do that in medical school and you've taught it better than my lecturers, THANK YOU
Hey, love the content! Could you make another video about hyperpigmentation, acne spots, scars, etc? :) The one you made before seems to be unlisted or deleted😅
Oh yeah, I had to delete it because of Australian sunscreen regulations! Probably needed an update anyway 😅
im soooo into the little drawings u did !!!!!!!!
It helps keep my attention. 🤣😂🤣
Amazing video I really wish there would be more people like you explaining how to read papers and explaining science :)
You're the best Muffin!! Loved your content for years and you just keep getting more awesome!
Many moons back when I was in Orgo lab, we were doing essential oil steam distillation and, scrambling the day before, I grabbed bags and bags of rosemary growing uncontrollably at one of the student rentals, simply because it was abundant and, well, there.
Seeing the numbers for the daily amount gave me a flashback and a good laugh; I was jamming SO MUCH ROSEMARY throughout that entire day, for literally a drop or two when it was all said and done after a 9 hour lab.
After a career pivot, I’m now a stylist, and seeing videos of someone casually boiling a few sprigs of rosemary with a lemon wedge on their stove top, and then sprinkling it on their head, shouting praise of it’s ~magic elixir~ benefits, sends me to no end 🙃🙂🙃
Excellent as always, Michelle!!!
Oh my God 😭
Lmao
Congratulations on getting married! ❤ I really appreciate your content, it's just so sad how a lot of "experts" don't even take their time to consciously read the studies they're sourcing for their content
Thank you! Yeah it's very disappointing - the point of trusting expert recommendations is because we assume they would interpret the evidence with more nuance, rather than just taking the abstract literally.
Not me thinking at first that "Yeah it's disappointing" referred to marriage ☠️
Thank you for making this video. This is so important.