FYI - all the debate in these comments about what is electronics should probably argue on the rebuttal video instead - th-cam.com/video/N87PTjM3-aA/w-d-xo.html
Without looking, my understanding is that it's definitely _electrical_ but to be "electronic" a device needs to have some kind of microprocessor/integrated circuit/etc... so that electronic is essentially synonymous with "digital".
@@llYossarian No, electronic does not require integration or a computer. Electronic would mean that an electronic component was actively controlling it. Yes LEDs and Neon tubes are 'electronic' but they are not performing any logic or driving anything. The control or logic is all physical switches cams and a motor.
@@wayland7150 I didn't say the clock was electronic and otherwise your definition that _"Electronic means an electronic component was actively controlling it"_ seems to completely agree with my definition and is totally circular _(like mine was)_ and only explains that _'electronics are electronic because they have electronics'_ -- ...and I don't mean to criticize but I was just hoping you'd clarify.
@@llYossarian To clarify I'm saying the clock is not electronic even though the lamps seem to be neons. However I can't figure out how those logic wheels create the numbers so I'm wondering if there is not some additional logic going on with the neons and resistors. A simple logic wheel would require 7 fingers to operate 7 segments. You can count from 0 to 15 with 4 fingers but how do you drive the segments? I suspect there is some kind of electronic logic happening even if it's very simple. Maybe someone has the answer?
@@wayland7150 You could call the wheals mechanical logic. But that is not what makes something electronic. The difference between electrical and electronic is that electronics involve non-metallic conductors such as semiconductors or gasses, ect. Interestingly, something not noted in this video is that clocks like this keep time through 60Hz with a synchronous motor. So you are relying on the power company to regulate that 60Hz so your clock does not run slow or fast. This relies heavily on electronics. This clock likely would not have kept time well in the 20s because there was no standard at that time for mains frequency until much later in the 20th century.
That's really cool. And in fact, I have often wondered why there were no clocks that worked in this manner... a digital display driven by mechanical contacts before the time of microcontrollers. And now I discover that there were, in fact, such devices after all!
Sunday, April 17, 2022 CE 15:50 EST I mean there were ticket clocks, which ACTUALLY used no electronics Though, I guess mechanical (mainspring powered) 7 segment displays might have glowed in the dark better with exposure to sunlight
I remember cracking open a hand held game in the early 80s, and being shocked that it was all mechanical, belt driven scrolling parts creating a crude space shooter on the front window, meaning the display. Back when it was cheaper to make a bunch of plastics. Amazing what you can do without microcontrollers if you put your mind to it
I suggest you check out how microcontrollers are made. It too is fascinating and take brain to do it. With microcontroller, you gain the ability to easily mass produce. And that means the price can be lower. Lower price mean everyone include poor family can purchase it without hurting their family budget much.
Tomy were the kings of mechanical hand held games. Randi Rain has done repairs of them, and its absolutely fascinating how they're made. Look at her channel
I had a game called "blip" it was marketed as a "digital" game but was entirely mechanical inside. Only used a single red bulb mounted to a moving lever that would ping-pong back and forth if you would press the correct button. One day curiosity got the better of me and I opened it up Only to discover there was nothing digital going on. It was all cogs and wheels
Could be titled "When a mechanical engineer is asked to design a digital clock." The gearing in this is akin to the gearing inside the old oven clocks/timers you might find on appliances of that era.
"The gearing in this is akin to the gearing inside the old oven clocks/timers you might find on appliances of that era." Never trying taking one of those apart. I had an oven with a 24hour, drum style mechanical digital clock which I took apart to oil. It took me most of the day to get it back together as it was easy to to line things up in a way that caused it to jam when it went from 19:59 to 20:00 etc
I'm a mechanical engineer. I am impressed with this design but we learn about electronics as well in school. Mechanical engineering encompasses electronics, mechanics, dynamics thermodynamics and fluids among other things
Pretty sure the stove my parents had in the 1980s/90s was a flip "digital" electro mechanical number wheel one. My Grandparents also had a clock like this with flipping panels to make the next number.
It's pretty much the same as an electrically powered mechanical clock, except the "hands" are electrical contacts for the different lights rather than physical hands.
20:04 - a VERY important thing that Fran did, yet didn't explain! When replacing screws into plastic, you must always wind them back (out) until they "click" down into the existing thread. Only then, wind them in to tighten. This is critical, because otherwise the screw will make another new thread and be so weak it will strip out when you try to tighten it fully. Watch Fran's hands carefully at 20:04 onwards
It will just automatically travel though the existing winding when you screw it back in. By tighting it to hard then you will grind the screw head and break the britel plastic screw mounts.
@@pyeltd.5457 If you're screwing into a material that is harder than the screw, yes, it will travel through the existing threads. If you're screwing into a material that is softer than the screw, you stand a risk of creating a new thread.
I've repaired a lot of vacuum cleaners that had ruined screw posts. I had to make new ones with plasti-welding those super cheap worthless drywall anchors in that they give you free with picture frames, or filling up the old screw post to the top with molten plastic and then tapping in a new thread manually.
I love how these clocks are incredible accurate simply because they exploit how much effort the power companies put in to make the frequency of the AC is very stable over time by using a synchronous motor. Beautiful.
The AC line frequency is gradually becoming less stable though - historically it was very hard to pull because you were basically fighting the aggregate rotational inertia of a very large number of extremely massive generators and turbines, but as more and more generation is becoming decentralized and increasingly large number of sources are using inverters which constantly adjust to the network phase - this is good for power delivery, but not so good for synchronization. You get a similar effect when using HVDC for long-lines transmission - the line losses are reduced, but the amount of network phase skew between the two ends can be significantly increased. So far, it's not reached the point where it's a serious problem but it's definitely on the radar as something to watch.
@Jamie Whitehorn. I agree. As you may know, the power utility companies actually count AC cycles to average exactly 5,184,000 cycles over a 24 hour period. They slightly speed up or slow down the generators throughout the day to "make cycles" - this is so AC Synchronous Motors used in clocks almost never lose time, even after years if power is not interrupted.
@@Darknecros7Any company that makes a 60Hz motor also makes a 50Hz version in the same form factor (just different windings/armature inside to handle 240VAC), and a different gear set to get 1 RPM from a different motor RPM.
My grandparents had a Lumitime clock that I would see when we visited them in the 70s and 80s. When I was a kid, LED clocks were a new thing and considered high-tech. Even back then I could tell the Lumitime incorporated a different type of technology, and I remember the faint sound of the motor. Thanks for showing us how they worked! I had no idea.
I have one of those iconic Sun valley model 1030 digital flip clocks. And a classic Numechron rotating drum digital clock, too. Need to get me one of these electro mechanical displays
Seeing how complex this clock is and how much goes into making it work, I'm not surprised that they switched to an LED display after they became cheap enough to put into consumer electronics. It's a very cool thing and as a retro enthusiast I'll be keeping an eye out for one on my yard sale hunts.
Nice clock. I wonder if a version was done with just a diffuser over the front of the neon segments in their original chunky form without the screen printed overlay.
There is an earlier version of this display that has a different looking action... I'd like to get one, but for some reason the price of these clocks has very recently went absolutely through the roof. Can't say why....
Fran, that is not a universal motor, what you referred to as a commutator is in fact the rotor. AC powered clocks except for some more modern quartz clocks use a synchronous motor which allows the motor to run in sync with the 60Hz power.
I was going to comment on that but decided to see if anyone else caught it first and found your comment. It has to be synchronous, a universal motor couldn’t keep time and its brushes would wear out.
One of the best things I've seen in a long time. Well thought out and well engineered electromechanical solutions to a problem have an incredible elegance. This is on a par with a Hammond tonewheel organ!
... and the 'run' (AC) motor in the hammond organ was originally used/designed for ... a clock :) ... relying on grid frequency those clocks are very precise and the organs are always in tune. many modern home appliances like kitchen/oven/alarm clocks still rely on grid frequency instead of some quartz circuit, as i found out just some years ago. (actually there was an issue in the european grid some years ago which caused the frequency to be slightly above exact 50 Hz for several months, which resulted in many home clocks being noticably too fast after some weeks...)
The tone wheel generator of the Hammond organ is pre twentieth century. It goes back to Thaddeus Cahill's Tellaharmonium, patented in 1897. It was also the basis of telephone tone and ring generators.
@@Jenairaslebol27merde I grew up with Telechron clocks. So accurate you only had to set them if the power went out. They even had a warning flag to let you know if there had been a power failure. GE eventually bought the company. Phonographs and tape recorders also used synchronous motors. Now everything runs on quartz servo motors.
@@Jenairaslebol27merde Early Hammond clocks were not exactly accurate due to line (grid) frequency not being regulated. Power companies were not interconnected like they are today. As the story goes, Laurens Hammond solved the problem by giving a Hammond clock to every power company president. As the complaints started coming in that the clocks were not accurate, Mr. Hammond Told the power companies ' there is nothing wrong with my clock. The problem is with your power. Regulate your frequency, and my clock will run accurately.' Incidentally, when the power system was finally regulated, the regulation did not say "60 Hertz". it said the polarity must change 5194000 times per day. This allowed the power generators a bit of leeway for generator slow down during heavy loads. The company could "make up" any lost changes in polarity, at low load times, keeping the clocks accurate in a 24 hr period.
@@Hellefleur That seems to be the case with everything I've ever taken apart - there's always more screws than places to screw them when putting them together again, lol
What a great looking clock! This is like the "not an LED" display you showed recently. It's as if people were itching for LCD-style displays even before the technology was affordable and these two displays show how they solved that problem. Thanks for the peek inside!
In the late 1970s, LEDs were still expensive; it wasn't at all unusual to see neon or filament lamps dolled-up to look like a bit LEDs, especially on cheap equipment. LEDs also required a DC supply and series resistor; which in its turn altered design requirements, as traditionally, neon indicators usually came as a panel-mount whole package including a resistor to run from the mains directly, and filament lamps would have been run on AC straight from the mains transformer.
@@bluerizlagirl Fran's tear-downs have been an eye-opener, and makes me realize I was probably seeing a lot of these without realizing they were bulbs.
@@TechStuff365 Yeah, I remember somewhat similar yet even more complicated and fascinating. I had a Tomy-branded "car driving simulator" toy, which had no electronics, just a switch, lamp, and battery box. The main part was the "display" which showed the road by rolling a picture film drum behind, lit from inside, and it had even attached a mechanism to make engine-mimicing noise (IIRC the film drum was used as an acoustically tuned cavity, with a rubber diapraghm on its end hit by some lever moved by a toothing on the edge of the drum). However the most fascinating thing on it was the separate-from-screen instrument cluster which had "7-segment" digital speedometer which showed the fictional speed depending on the speed lever (which IIRC mimiced a gear selector by aesthetic design, and by the way can't recall how was the rolling speed control implemented, but IIRC mechanically), and also a horizontal "digital segmented-bar" RPM meter, controlled by the same lever, as well as a "vertical-segment-stack"-layouted fuel gauge, which slowly decremented while driving. All these "digital" instruments were implemented by surprisigly complicated mechanics, moving colored plates behind the segment holes. Well how I know all this and what is so sad about it? I tore it down and disposed it of as a teenager... Btw, with all that digital-mimicing hype back then, it is ironic that nowadays we have "analog" clock displays on digital screens, and even stepper motor driven "mechanical pointer" instrument clusters to show digitally fed speed, rpm, fuel level etc. information.
@@bluerizlagirl I actually have a flip clock that has red numbers that are made to imitate the look of LED numbers. I'm guessing it was made for someone who wanted a 'real' LED clock but couldn't afford one because they were still pricey. It's funny to me because a 'real' flip clock would probably cost way more to make than an LED clock these days.
So elegant. You can tell the engineers really took pride in their work. Engineers and designers probably didn't think it would last this long or be refurbished with such care as you've done.
Thats the part that blows my mind, this thing was completely designed on pen and paper, manually calculating every measurement. We simply dont see this level of engineering anymore in consumer goods.
@@MisterMosfet Back then companies would have a drawing office with dozens of draftsmen stood at large drawing boards designing all the individual parts. Fun fact. The first ICs were designed without CAD. In fact the "Place and Route" of the Ferranti ULAs used in the Sinclair Spectrum etc was done manually on paper. The design was then digitized using a huge digitizing tablet so it could be simulated. We had that system at work in the 1980s. I have since learnt it cost £99999 when you could buy a house for £20000.
Great explanation Fran. I bought one of those for my bedroom when i was 15 years old. I'm 61 now. I'll have to check my parents basement to see if it is still around. I remember several different models in the store, and just had to have one. A true blast from the past !
Yup, I had the model with the alarm at around the same age as you - I think I got it for Christmas because I sure don't remember picking out the model or buying it. It was a very cool clock and I liked it a lot. It's strange, however, (and sad) that I got such a negative reaction when I saw that rotating starburst in Fran's video. It brought me right back to being a sad kid sitting in a my dark bedroom trying to fall asleep while watching that starburst turn. My parents loved me and gave me a nice home, but they battled addiction and mental illness so my childhood wasn't always pleasant.
@@chiroquacker2580 I know my parents never could have afforded the equivalent of $100 for a simple alarm clock for me, so maybe they were significantly discounted off the MSRP in store.
HOLY SHIT!!!!!! Wow, what a blast from the past!!! We had one of these when I was a kid! So awesome to see this Fran. I'm about to go visit my parents that I haven't seen in a few years. My dad says he wants to go through the storage space that has boxes in it that havent been opened since the early 90's. I HOPE THEY STILL HAVE THIS THING! I know they got theirs in the 70's and it looks to be the exact one you have. Just wow, awesome!
My grandmother had one of these when I was a kid -- I remember being *fascinated* with that animated seconds-counter on the right. I thought it was one of the neatest things. 🙂 What a great memory. And to finally know how it works just makes it even more fascinating. Thanks!
Very cool clock and thank you for letting us peek inside! I'm fascinated how they managed to encode up to 12 states on just 4 tracks on the "encoder wheels" without using any diodes!
My Electronics Teacher talked about how some clocks rely on the steady 60Hz to keep time, but I never thought I would see one. Thanks for showing us this, Fran~!
Actually, most clocks rely on the 60Hz line frequency to keep time. That's how any electric clock with a synchronous motor keeps time (most just have hands instead of light up digits). Radio/alarm clocks from the 70s and 80s with the LED or VFD displays and more modern ones with LCD displays do too. Usually one of the pins on the chip that runs the clock is connected to the step down transformer with just a diode (no filtering) and it divides that pulse rate by 60 to get seconds.
@@raymondcourtois67 Obviously I still have much to learn. Thanks Raymond for taking the time to explain this; honestly, I never did complete that ( Core Electronics ) course, and so I kinda - sorta know a little bit about it, but that's all. But I'm still very fascinated by electronics and by the way, Thanks Fran for continuing to make educational and entertaining content~!
@@nicolasjochem1814 True, I should have said most clocks in the US.. Clocks that run on 50Hz power work the same, just the gear ratio (or divider circuit for digital clocks) is different to get one revolution of the second hand per minute.
A 1970s widescreen TV would use a wider CRT tube, and almost the same electronics, only with a more powerful horizontal deflection circuit. 4:3 was a compromise to work better with naturally round parts like lenses and CRTs. Widescreen movies used a special projector lens to take a 4:3 image from the film and stretch it out on the silver screen at the other end of the theater, just like amplifying the horizontal deflection signal in a TV.
Probably maybe if they had flat screen technology somehow. Probably a what could have been punk thing like how some people think of steam punk or diesel punk or cyber punk.
For years my parents had one of these on top of their TV in the living room until some of the segments started getting twitchy. Wish we had simply cleaned the contacts. Beautiful and well thought out mechanism!
Wow - what a cool clock. With seven individual bulbs per digit and all those contacts in motion under constant friction I can’t believe any of these are still fully functional. It would be very satisfying to have all the needed replacement components on hand to keep one going for generations and to see people’s reaction to it over time. Thanks for sharing!
Cool video! 👍🏾 I own the lumitone version of this clock. It's named differently from the clock you have, because it has a built-in radio as well and it's totally mechanical, with the orange display just like yours. I absolutely love unique vintage clocks such as these. They are definitely good conversation pieces.👌🏾
I have a Lumitone radio as well as a Centech clock that works the same. I bought the Lumitone thinking that the Lumitime display was the same as a shutter clock, which I also have, mainly because of that fascinating transition from one digit to the next. Lumitime does it faster and with fewer transitions than a shutter clock. Shutter clocks backlight with a single bulb or a pair of bulbs and use cams to move physical shutters that block light on each segment. Talk about mechanical!
I love to see analogue equipment like that wonderful clock working, been involved with analogue kit since 69 and I'm still working with it to this day. Keep up the good work and many thanks for showing it to us.
I used to have a clock like that except it was even more mechanical. Instead of electrical contacts and segment bulbs, the cam gears would physically move shutters to open and close each segment. The light came from two bulbs mounted behind the whole assembly.
Until recently there were loads of petrol pumps doing something similar. The manufacturers thought LEDs would be too dim and LCDs would fail the first time there was a frost.
i just realized, so many times I've seen you say to be careful not to strip, crack, break etc and have not yet seen it go wrong... i hate to think what would happen to of all these unique and delicate objects if someone like me had a go at what you do ;-) i don't remember what happened with that museum thing but i assume since i haven't heard it's no longer relevant, but they really missed out on someone special, the combined knowledge, understanding and skill you have is really on another level, and you share all so generously. thank you!
I remember those!! My mom got me one of these when I was very young...the model was the top-left one @ 2:26 Was always fascinated by the "seconds" movement.
Yeah, that seconds display really dredged up a half forgetten memory. I'm sure I saw one of these somewhere when I was a kid. Maybe it was at an Aunt's house or something.
Amazing! I remember seeing those digital -- but mechanical -- flip clocks at friends' houses back in the 80's (and I remember a friend's brother making a small oopsie while trying to fix one and getting he numbers slightly out of order), but I've never seen one of these "Lumitime" clocks. I love how easy it was to see the gears, cams, etc. in action (once it was open, of course) to understand, as a layman, how it works. Thank you for showing it to us!
Worth mentioning that the way these keeps the time without quartz or balance wheels is by utilising a synchronous AC motor. The AC frequency (60 Hz in the US) is what keeps the time, and it is incredible accurate. And that is why these clocks could not run on batteries. I have a flip clock from the 60's or 70's that works in the same way, and it is the most accurate clock that I have.
Fran mentioned that the clock had a "universal motor". Actually, universal motors run on both AC and DC (brush motors). This motor is a synchronous motor, and Kriss is correct about the power utility company keeping the 60 Hz synced for use as a time reference.
IIRC, in the US, the AC power was spec'd the be accurate to 3 seconds (not a typo.) This means it could be very inaccurate over the short term and incredibly accurate over the long term. Measuring a year to +/-3 seconds was easy using AC power. Common crystal oscillators were nowhere near that accurate.
This is absolutely marvelous! I recall clocks like these from way back when but had no idea there were no electronics involved. Thanks for a great video!
I think the coolest realization from watching these videos is that the way we do things on modern digital electronics, those patterns were well established way before digital electronics were really out there. For instance in this clock, you fast-forward the minute hand and it increments the 10's and hours from that, we do the same on nearly all of our electronics, when it would make more sense, and be easier to just have a button for each. That logic is there because of the gears that these relied on.
The switches remind me of a "mode switch" that you see in most domestic video recorders. That tell the system control IC where the loading mechanism is, so the loading motor can drive the deck to its various modes.
Very nice. However, some of the inner workings of the clock aren't shown IHMO. There's no way to control 7 segments making digits 0 thru 9 (as in the last digit display) using only four switches: so, there has to be another set of contacts and wipers on the back side of the wheels, which the PCB layout seem to confirm.
I went through the comments to see if anyone else also noticed this, it took me a while, but I found your comment - thanks for posting. I'm surprised more people did not notice this. I was trying to figure out how they achieved the BCD conversion, but when I saw the two contact pins on the back side for each wiper, I guessed there was a second set of wipers on the back side as well. The 0-5 (10's) digit only needed 6 (3+3) because the largest digit "0" would need 6 inputs, whereas any digit needing an "8" would need at least 7. Only other way to do this is using something like the 4511 Binary Coded Decimal 7-segment decoder.
I had a feeling it had a couple of timing encoders that drove the segments. Really clever, elegant design! I'd hate to think how such a thing would be designed today. Also when you first opened it and hadn't yet shown the bulbs, I thought that maybe there were lamps being attenuated by a silkscreened liquid crystal. It turns out those did exist at the time, which was really cool to learn about, although I don't know if they'd have been feasible for inclusion in such a product at the time.
Just think of the automatic transmission of a car. The first ones were introduced in the 1930s, the same time RCA was selling radios with wired arm chair remote controls.
Very cool! Also, I thought it was hilarious, while you were removing the screws from the clock, I noticed the ice cube tray propping up the clock, and I thought, "Oh! That's a brilliant idea! It'd be so easy to keep track of screws with so many partitions!" And then you put the screws in some sort of tray off camera
17:20 Looks like the PCB was wave-soldered in place. I wonder if there was a chunk of the mask missing where the solder could then come up and hit the plastic. Or there was no mask and they figured it wasn't going to be in the solder long enough to damage the plastic too much.
Oh my gosh, you just unlocked a memory from when I was very little. My parents had one of these (or a similar model) when I was a toddler. I remember watching the animation for the seconds 😊
You're always coming up with the coolest retro items. So fascinating the way that all these different things work. I've never seen a mechanical clock like that before, I'd be interested to know how much time it loses (or gains) over time. Very neat!
Interesting clock, I like the way they designed it. The moving pattern at the side gives you something to look at. Love the way they designed it, cool for the day. Only thing that might annoy me is if the motor started the growling/rumbling/growling noise some of these type of motors start to do as they age. But that one is still quiet. Never seen one that I know of, interesting clock.
My grandparents had the white version Fran is playing with. They didn't have a lot of money, but they enjoyed their gadgets. I recall it did a decent job keeping time. As a child I would stay the night and stare at the moire flower for hours until I fell asleep. I haven't seen one in 45years and it brings back pleasant memories.
I coded some digital clocks in Second Life, and those wheels with section that have or don't have metal to complete the circuit of the wiper pairs had it's counterpart in my digital clock code because I needed to know which segments to 'turn on' and which should be off. So I had simply arrays (called lists), and would store 1's or 0's into the list depending on whether a segment needed to on or off. Simply a mechanical version of what's going on (I'm sure) inside modern digital clocks and my 3d rendered clocks in Second Life.
wow, havnt thought about SL in about 15 yrs, I used to make lamps with various modes, rented land and built a shop to sell them along with a friend that made clothes, my part time job was an "interactive" model in a store that sold adult animations. what a crazy place SL was.
@@flipclone Yeah, I learned scripting pretty well and have quite a few items still in the marketplace, and recently setup in world again, but I've already kind of lost interest, and I've been open a few months, and haven't made a sale. Seems people don't shop like the used to...lol
Your expertize is impressive! As is the ingenuity of the people who designed this clock. As a teen in the 60s, I bought a "digital' watch from Edmund Scientific Catalogue. Interesting that someone was looking ahead, but It was just an analog watch that showed hours and minutes through windows like some watches show the date. Such a simple thing when compared to this device! If I attempted to do what you did with this clock, it would not have survived the operation. Kudos! I'd love to see your face.
You are the Bob Ross of obscure electronics in my opinion. Just discovered your channel while (admittedly drunk) surfing TH-cam on a Saturday night, and I LOVE IT.
Love your fix-it videos. That clear strip may have been intended just to keep dust of the gears . And after watching how the old telephone switching was done, I believe pre-solid state electro-mechanical devices can just about do anything.
When you think about it though, micro-controllers are merely replicating in electronics what you needed to do on a much bigger scale mechanically. So yeah, with enough space and a ton of points of failure, you probably could replicate anything mechanically.
When I was young, about late teens to early 20s, I had one of these clocks with the starburst. When I couldn't sleep, I used to lay in bed and watch it. The time changed so interestingly, and now I know that it was not truly digital, but that it used light bulbs to light up the sections of the numerals. This was the mid to late 70s, and digital clocks and watches were still a new and mysterious thing. My favorite part was watching the starburst rotate. It was so soothing. I would dearly love to have one of these desk clocks today.
Neat! It's been a while since I'd seen one of these. I didn't realize it used neon bulbs, I'd always figured the company used mini incandescents. Certainly neon will have a far greater lifespan than what I thought they used. Judging by how lightly coloured the tape wrapping is on the motor winding either it is very well spec'd and doesn't get hot or this clock didn't see much use.
Maybe I missed it, but there must be a second set of contacts on the backside of those discs to handle the other 3 segments. Very hard to see, although the circuit boards eludes to the fact since there were 8 solder connections on the board. Since there isn't any electronics, only the 4 visible contacts wouldn't be enough. ❤ That thing is AWESOME! I've been loving these videos.
@@WaffleStaffel pause around 19:19, you can see the second set of wipers on the back side. Also, if you pause on the circuit board and trace all the connections, logically, there has to be a second set of wipers on the bottom.
Fran are you sure it isn't some kind of synchronous motor? A universal motor won't keep time because the speed depends on the voltage which varies a lot. The speed of a synchronous motor is locked to the frequency and they were regularly used for clocks. Power companies used to actually count the number of cycles in a day and add or subtract cycles to ensure those clocks kept time.
This. It has to be a synchronous motor, or otherwise there would have to be some other kind of very precision speed governor, which is hard to imagine with any cost efficiency and nothing shown hints of such.
This is great! Even though I'm 54 yo, I have never seen one of these. I thought I had seen everything. Thanks for showing it and digging into it. Great show as always Fran!
That's a synchronous hysteresis-reluctance motor, very commonly used in older electric clocks. A universal motor is a regular commutated/brush driven armature with field coils that can be powered by AC or DC.
That doesn't look like a universal motor, just an ordinary synchronous clock motor (which would make sense for timekeeping and light mechanical loads like this). A friend of mine also had a mechanical seven segment clock, but it worked by having little shutters that would blank off segments via a complex mechanical linkage (there was a single light source behind it). I was curious about it for years, as I was sure I could *hear* the digits updating, and sure enough when it eventually died, he let me take it apart so I could see how it had worked, and I apparently could hear the tiny "wheep" of the shutters sliding around when the digits updated.
It’s awesome that they encased the gear assembly in that clear plastic, shows the engineers were proud of their work :) what a cool piece of technology, thanks for showing it off!
Amazing find Fran! This kind of reminds me of the "flip digital" clocks which were popular in the early/mid 70s - I remember as a kid having to set the digits for the time and alarm and getting frustrated when I over shot the time since you could not go backwards. Also had a AM/FM radio. This is even more amazing in that no electronics are used other than passive resistors. Here's a project for you Fran - convert this to a fully digital version using LEDs and a micro.
Your explanation, the choice of words and the servicing discipline (marking the seconds wheel position with arrow stuck, binning the screws) are all as beautiful as the clock. The electronics substitutes, the synchronous motor, the "decimal thumb wheel switch's code wheel integrated into the gear along with the PCB" were all mechanically "integrated" in a very nice way. Surprising thing was that the filament bulbs did last that long-may be reduced voltage driving?
When I was in high school I wanted to build an automated crane for a science fair using a program on a disk with contacts like those. I ended up never finishing it but that's a thing that crossed my mind.
I have an old robotic coin bank from Radio Shack that lifts the coin and inserts it into the slot. It's all electro-mechanical using these sorts of techniques.
That's one of the coolest clocks I've ever seen. Thanks for the break down. It's so cool to see stuff like this that's all mechanical and I love how you're so careful with these delicate pieces of technology. Thank you for sharing this with us!
I have one which was sold by Sears, it’s really nice and bright and the starburst seconds thing is mesmerizing to look at during night. I love seeing all the digits flash on and off during the hour changes
I almost didn't watch this post. I'm glad I did, I love the care you take when tinkering around with this old piece. I would have broken several parts and had extra screws left over when thrown away. Seems the Japanese manufacturer put real care and quality into almost everything made there I don't think I've ever come across a cheap Japanese piece of junk...
has anybody figured out how the encoding worked on these things?! Only with resistors? There are some paths on the backside that don't go to the lamp directly but next to it - I wonder what is on the other side. Also I couldn't quite figure out how the lamps for 1 are turned on if no thunge is connected at all besides the common one.
That looks more like a shaded-pole motor, although for line frequency based mechanical time keeping you'd need a synchronous AC motor which I think it actually has. Marvelous machine, thanks for sharing Fran! :)
This was fascinating! I remember as a kid taking apart what I thought were "electronic toys" that turned out to have purely mechanical internals. (A talking robot was one --- It literally had a grooved plastic disc that worked like a vinyl LP) --- Love your channel! So much amazing content --- could get lost in here for hours!
Can somebody explain how the 7-segment are lit in conjunction with the wiper switches? At 13:00, on the "ones" digit, I notice the four wipers have no contact with the "common" wiper but the display shows the number "1". And if you notice the contact pattern, when the wipers are all in contact with the "common", it displays "0". However, on the "hours", when all wipers are in contact with common, it displays "12. So baffling!
@@FranLab So there are wiper contacts at the bottom underneath which are not seen from the front view? ... Oh I get it now, those hidden wiper contacts can be deduced from the pattern on the pcb. Thanks!
Fran, this video on the Lumitime clock was fascinating, one of your better presentations. The switching wheels in effect are the equal of BCD counter chips, how ingenious. No digital electronics, just mechanical switching!
what a cool little clock! The way those contact wheels work is genius! Would've never thought of something like that but once explained it's really easy to grasp. Also the seconds display thing is awesome!
That was a really cool tear down and repair. The icing on the cake Fran does her own music, and it is even has a swanky 70s sound contemporary with the clock.
I had one from about 1976 to 81, it was my favorite. I’d stare at it and of space out, it was quite hypnotic. I still have it somewhere, in an opened state.
I really like that, so cool. I do many repairs and your comment is so seldom heard. I know from the first screw if a piece of equipment has been opened before. There is that 'click' that can be felt as well as heard.
i love seeing videos about things like this so I know what to look for when it comes through my day job. I do see weird, unusual and vintage electronics often.
It is amazing what electromechanical can achieve. I used to be a ships radio officer and on one of the ships I sailed on the watchkeeping receiver (that monitored the Morse distress frequency when I was ZZZZZ) was mechanical like a clock rather than electrical. Later analogue versions used Schmitt triggers and CR circuits to time the 12 four seconds dashes these receivers listened for. Still later again, digital timers came into play.....but this ship still had its mechanical version and it was still meeting survey requirements!
Wow! Nice! A 7-segment readout made using small incandescent lamps with reflectors and a mask. Cool. I've got some old Numitron incandescent displays. Would like to build a Numitron clock with them. Have built several Nixie Tube clocks designed from scratch. Ever see the nice digital clocks made with a motor that turned flat sided wheels with the numbers printed on them? Those were cool too.
FYI - all the debate in these comments about what is electronics should probably argue on the rebuttal video instead - th-cam.com/video/N87PTjM3-aA/w-d-xo.html
Without looking, my understanding is that it's definitely _electrical_ but to be "electronic" a device needs to have some kind of microprocessor/integrated circuit/etc... so that electronic is essentially synonymous with "digital".
@@llYossarian No, electronic does not require integration or a computer. Electronic would mean that an electronic component was actively controlling it. Yes LEDs and Neon tubes are 'electronic' but they are not performing any logic or driving anything. The control or logic is all physical switches cams and a motor.
@@wayland7150 I didn't say the clock was electronic and otherwise your definition that _"Electronic means an electronic component was actively controlling it"_ seems to completely agree with my definition and is totally circular _(like mine was)_ and only explains that _'electronics are electronic because they have electronics'_ -- ...and I don't mean to criticize but I was just hoping you'd clarify.
@@llYossarian To clarify I'm saying the clock is not electronic even though the lamps seem to be neons. However I can't figure out how those logic wheels create the numbers so I'm wondering if there is not some additional logic going on with the neons and resistors. A simple logic wheel would require 7 fingers to operate 7 segments. You can count from 0 to 15 with 4 fingers but how do you drive the segments? I suspect there is some kind of electronic logic happening even if it's very simple. Maybe someone has the answer?
@@wayland7150 You could call the wheals mechanical logic. But that is not what makes something electronic. The difference between electrical and electronic is that electronics involve non-metallic conductors such as semiconductors or gasses, ect. Interestingly, something not noted in this video is that clocks like this keep time through 60Hz with a synchronous motor. So you are relying on the power company to regulate that 60Hz so your clock does not run slow or fast. This relies heavily on electronics. This clock likely would not have kept time well in the 20s because there was no standard at that time for mains frequency until much later in the 20th century.
When a grid's misaligned with another behind... That's a moiré! When new lines hit your eyes when two patterns combine, that's a moiré!
🤣🤣
This comment wins todays interwebnets 👏👏👏
And I love you so...
When an eel bites your eye, pulls it out till you cry, that's a Moray
Lol altogether now.
What a spectacular clock! Love the moiré seconds effect.
Its mesmerising.
As seen on Mr. Spock's work station.
I bet Mr Fancy Pants had one !
I was so excited to see how that worked, absolutely gorgeous effect, Im in love!
That's my favorite part
That's really cool. And in fact, I have often wondered why there were no clocks that worked in this manner... a digital display driven by mechanical contacts before the time of microcontrollers. And now I discover that there were, in fact, such devices after all!
it's nice to see quality comments for a change, i must be on the good side of YT :)
Sunday, April 17, 2022 CE 15:50 EST
I mean there were ticket clocks, which ACTUALLY used no electronics
Though, I guess mechanical (mainspring powered) 7 segment displays might have glowed in the dark better with exposure to sunlight
Hey, 8-bit Guy ❤️
@@SilverBullet93GT I'm just surprised nobody's told him to keep his angle grinder away from it ;)
You mean - when you invent something and then realize it was already invented 50 years ago? Familiar feeling ;-) Cheers! S
I remember cracking open a hand held game in the early 80s, and being shocked that it was all mechanical, belt driven scrolling parts creating a crude space shooter on the front window, meaning the display. Back when it was cheaper to make a bunch of plastics. Amazing what you can do without microcontrollers if you put your mind to it
i remember seeing a toy like that my cousin had
I suggest you check out how microcontrollers are made. It too is fascinating and take brain to do it. With microcontroller, you gain the ability to easily mass produce. And that means the price can be lower. Lower price mean everyone include poor family can purchase it without hurting their family budget much.
Tomy were the kings of mechanical hand held games. Randi Rain has done repairs of them, and its absolutely fascinating how they're made. Look at her channel
I had a game called "blip" it was marketed as a "digital" game but was entirely mechanical inside. Only used a single red bulb mounted to a moving lever that would ping-pong back and forth if you would press the correct button. One day curiosity got the better of me and I opened it up Only to discover there was nothing digital going on. It was all cogs and wheels
@@daphneblake7889 Randi repaired that very game (she's done absolutely loads of Tomy game repairs)
Could be titled "When a mechanical engineer is asked to design a digital clock."
The gearing in this is akin to the gearing inside the old oven clocks/timers you might find on appliances of that era.
Its also worth remembering that prior to dedicated digital clock chips a logic based clock would have been pretty expensive.
"The gearing in this is akin to the gearing inside the old oven clocks/timers you might find on appliances of that era." Never trying taking one of those apart. I had an oven with a 24hour, drum style mechanical digital clock which I took apart to oil. It took me most of the day to get it back together as it was easy to to line things up in a way that caused it to jam when it went from 19:59 to 20:00 etc
I'm a mechanical engineer. I am impressed with this design but we learn about electronics as well in school. Mechanical engineering encompasses electronics, mechanics, dynamics thermodynamics and fluids among other things
Pretty sure the stove my parents had in the 1980s/90s was a flip "digital" electro mechanical number wheel one. My Grandparents also had a clock like this with flipping panels to make the next number.
It's pretty much the same as an electrically powered mechanical clock, except the "hands" are electrical contacts for the different lights rather than physical hands.
A thing of beauty!
A joy forever.
Does not deteriorate.
@@FranLab winner chicken dinner
@@FranLab Bobby Dazzler?
20:04 - a VERY important thing that Fran did, yet didn't explain! When replacing screws into plastic, you must always wind them back (out) until they "click" down into the existing thread. Only then, wind them in to tighten.
This is critical, because otherwise the screw will make another new thread and be so weak it will strip out when you try to tighten it fully. Watch Fran's hands carefully at 20:04 onwards
It will just automatically travel though the existing winding when you screw it back in. By tighting it to hard then you will grind the screw head and break the britel plastic screw mounts.
@@pyeltd.5457 If you're screwing into a material that is harder than the screw, yes, it will travel through the existing threads. If you're screwing into a material that is softer than the screw, you stand a risk of creating a new thread.
I've repaired a lot of vacuum cleaners that had ruined screw posts. I had to make new ones with plasti-welding those super cheap worthless drywall anchors in that they give you free with picture frames, or filling up the old screw post to the top with molten plastic and then tapping in a new thread manually.
I love how these clocks are incredible accurate simply because they exploit how much effort the power companies put in to make the frequency of the AC is very stable over time by using a synchronous motor. Beautiful.
Most mains-powered clocks work the same way.
The AC line frequency is gradually becoming less stable though - historically it was very hard to pull because you were basically fighting the aggregate rotational inertia of a very large number of extremely massive generators and turbines, but as more and more generation is becoming decentralized and increasingly large number of sources are using inverters which constantly adjust to the network phase - this is good for power delivery, but not so good for synchronization. You get a similar effect when using HVDC for long-lines transmission - the line losses are reduced, but the amount of network phase skew between the two ends can be significantly increased. So far, it's not reached the point where it's a serious problem but it's definitely on the radar as something to watch.
@Jamie Whitehorn. I agree. As you may know, the power utility companies actually count AC cycles to average exactly 5,184,000 cycles over a 24 hour period. They slightly speed up or slow down the generators throughout the day to "make cycles" - this is so AC Synchronous Motors used in clocks almost never lose time, even after years if power is not interrupted.
I wonder how this worked in countries that use 50Hz on their grids?
@@Darknecros7Any company that makes a 60Hz motor also makes a 50Hz version in the same form factor (just different windings/armature inside to handle 240VAC), and a different gear set to get 1 RPM from a different motor RPM.
My grandparents had a Lumitime clock that I would see when we visited them in the 70s and 80s. When I was a kid, LED clocks were a new thing and considered high-tech. Even back then I could tell the Lumitime incorporated a different type of technology, and I remember the faint sound of the motor. Thanks for showing us how they worked! I had no idea.
Yeah, those japanese clocks emitted a sort of "hum" background noise, with the frequency of the AC grid, I suppose.
Just a note that pretty much all the Lumitime clocks that you find on Ebay these days are the later red LED versions from the 80's, so FYI....
I have one of those iconic Sun valley model 1030 digital flip clocks.
And a classic Numechron rotating drum digital clock, too.
Need to get me one of these electro mechanical displays
This one is just beautiful.....who needs that 'new' silicon-based technology?? :)
Perhaps that solder on the plastic is a remnant of an early wave-solder process??
This is such a gorgeous clock! I’m not surprised that it still works after all this time!😍
Seeing how complex this clock is and how much goes into making it work, I'm not surprised that they switched to an LED display after they became cheap enough to put into consumer electronics. It's a very cool thing and as a retro enthusiast I'll be keeping an eye out for one on my yard sale hunts.
Nice clock. I wonder if a version was done with just a diffuser over the front of the neon segments in their original chunky form without the screen printed overlay.
There is an earlier version of this display that has a different looking action... I'd like to get one, but for some reason the price of these clocks has very recently went absolutely through the roof. Can't say why....
holy crap it's big clive o-o
Reminds me of a lot of the pin tables and juke boxes I worked on in the 1980s
@@FranLab It must be the "Fran Effect", similar to the well known "Techmoan Effect".
Fran, that is not a universal motor, what you referred to as a commutator is in fact the rotor. AC powered clocks except for some more modern quartz clocks use a synchronous motor which allows the motor to run in sync with the 60Hz power.
I was going to comment on that but decided to see if anyone else caught it first and found your comment. It has to be synchronous, a universal motor couldn’t keep time and its brushes would wear out.
presumably it would keep bad time in places with 50hz - would there be a mechanical way to switch?
Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering how it would be able to keep decent time.
Yep no idea where the hell she got "universal" from lol... I thought at first it was just she misspoke... Then she repeated herself... Sigh
@@jeffcapeshop Gearing.
One of the best things I've seen in a long time. Well thought out and well engineered electromechanical solutions to a problem have an incredible elegance. This is on a par with a Hammond tonewheel organ!
... and the 'run' (AC) motor in the hammond organ was originally used/designed for ... a clock :) ... relying on grid frequency those clocks are very precise and the organs are always in tune.
many modern home appliances like kitchen/oven/alarm clocks still rely on grid frequency instead of some quartz circuit, as i found out just some years ago.
(actually there was an issue in the european grid some years ago which caused the frequency to be slightly above exact 50 Hz for several months, which resulted in many home clocks being noticably too fast after some weeks...)
The tone wheel generator of the Hammond organ is pre twentieth century. It goes back to Thaddeus Cahill's Tellaharmonium, patented in 1897. It was also the basis of telephone tone and ring generators.
@@Jenairaslebol27merde I grew up with Telechron clocks. So accurate you only had to set them if the power went out. They even had a warning flag to let you know if there had been a power failure. GE eventually bought the company. Phonographs and tape recorders also used synchronous motors. Now everything runs on quartz servo motors.
@@Jenairaslebol27merde Early Hammond clocks were not exactly accurate due to line (grid) frequency not being regulated. Power companies were not interconnected like they are today.
As the story goes, Laurens Hammond solved the problem by giving a Hammond clock to every power company president. As the complaints started coming in that the clocks were not accurate, Mr. Hammond Told the power companies ' there is nothing wrong with my clock. The problem is with your power. Regulate your frequency, and my clock will run accurately.'
Incidentally, when the power system was finally regulated, the regulation did not say "60 Hertz". it said the polarity must change 5194000 times per day. This allowed the power generators a bit of leeway for generator slow down during heavy loads. The company could "make up" any lost changes in polarity, at low load times, keeping the clocks accurate in a 24 hr period.
@@dougbrowning82 Correct,
Hammond simply miniaturized the Tone Wheel Generator, and made it practical.
This reminds me of when I was a kid taking my parent's electrical things apart to see how they worked. Sometimes I'd even get them put back together.
Same here but not always successfully!
I loved how they always included extra screws for the next time you needed to put together.
@@Hellefleur That seems to be the case with everything I've ever taken apart - there's always more screws than places to screw them when putting them together again, lol
What a great looking clock!
This is like the "not an LED" display you showed recently. It's as if people were itching for LCD-style displays even before the technology was affordable and these two displays show how they solved that problem. Thanks for the peek inside!
In the late 1970s, LEDs were still expensive; it wasn't at all unusual to see neon or filament lamps dolled-up to look like a bit LEDs, especially on cheap equipment. LEDs also required a DC supply and series resistor; which in its turn altered design requirements, as traditionally, neon indicators usually came as a panel-mount whole package including a resistor to run from the mains directly, and filament lamps would have been run on AC straight from the mains transformer.
@@bluerizlagirl Fran's tear-downs have been an eye-opener, and makes me realize I was probably seeing a lot of these without realizing they were bulbs.
@@TechStuff365 Yeah, I remember somewhat similar yet even more complicated and fascinating. I had a Tomy-branded "car driving simulator" toy, which had no electronics, just a switch, lamp, and battery box. The main part was the "display" which showed the road by rolling a picture film drum behind, lit from inside, and it had even attached a mechanism to make engine-mimicing noise (IIRC the film drum was used as an acoustically tuned cavity, with a rubber diapraghm on its end hit by some lever moved by a toothing on the edge of the drum).
However the most fascinating thing on it was the separate-from-screen instrument cluster which had "7-segment" digital speedometer which showed the fictional speed depending on the speed lever (which IIRC mimiced a gear selector by aesthetic design, and by the way can't recall how was the rolling speed control implemented, but IIRC mechanically), and also a horizontal "digital segmented-bar" RPM meter, controlled by the same lever, as well as a "vertical-segment-stack"-layouted fuel gauge, which slowly decremented while driving.
All these "digital" instruments were implemented by surprisigly complicated mechanics, moving colored plates behind the segment holes.
Well how I know all this and what is so sad about it? I tore it down and disposed it of as a teenager...
Btw, with all that digital-mimicing hype back then, it is ironic that nowadays we have "analog" clock displays on digital screens, and even stepper motor driven "mechanical pointer" instrument clusters to show digitally fed speed, rpm, fuel level etc. information.
@@bluerizlagirl I actually have a flip clock that has red numbers that are made to imitate the look of LED numbers. I'm guessing it was made for someone who wanted a 'real' LED clock but couldn't afford one because they were still pricey. It's funny to me because a 'real' flip clock would probably cost way more to make than an LED clock these days.
@@TheSimoc i think i remember this toy from being wrong about it at a family friends house or something, "obviously" needing batteries haha
So elegant. You can tell the engineers really took pride in their work. Engineers and designers probably didn't think it would last this long or be refurbished with such care as you've done.
The clock is in such great condition after all these years. so much engineering went into this. This was pre CAD too
Thats the part that blows my mind, this thing was completely designed on pen and paper, manually calculating every measurement. We simply dont see this level of engineering anymore in consumer goods.
@@MisterMosfet Back then companies would have a drawing office with dozens of draftsmen stood at large drawing boards designing all the individual parts.
Fun fact. The first ICs were designed without CAD. In fact the "Place and Route" of the Ferranti ULAs used in the Sinclair Spectrum etc was done manually on paper. The design was then digitized using a huge digitizing tablet so it could be simulated. We had that system at work in the 1980s. I have since learnt it cost £99999 when you could buy a house for £20000.
Infinitely more complex things, to this, were designed "pre CAD".
Great explanation Fran. I bought one of those for my bedroom when i was 15 years old. I'm 61 now. I'll have to check my parents basement to see if it is still around. I remember several different models in the store, and just had to have one. A true blast from the past !
Yes I was thinking mid 70's not early 70's
Yup, I had the model with the alarm at around the same age as you - I think I got it for Christmas because I sure don't remember picking out the model or buying it. It was a very cool clock and I liked it a lot.
It's strange, however, (and sad) that I got such a negative reaction when I saw that rotating starburst in Fran's video. It brought me right back to being a sad kid sitting in a my dark bedroom trying to fall asleep while watching that starburst turn. My parents loved me and gave me a nice home, but they battled addiction and mental illness so my childhood wasn't always pleasant.
You must have really liked it back in the day, adjusted for inflation it would have cost around $100. That's a lot of money for a 15 year old.
@@chiroquacker2580 I know my parents never could have afforded the equivalent of $100 for a simple alarm clock for me, so maybe they were significantly discounted off the MSRP in store.
I just want to say that the things you find for these shows always fascinates me. Please keep this going!
HOLY SHIT!!!!!! Wow, what a blast from the past!!! We had one of these when I was a kid! So awesome to see this Fran. I'm about to go visit my parents that I haven't seen in a few years. My dad says he wants to go through the storage space that has boxes in it that havent been opened since the early 90's. I HOPE THEY STILL HAVE THIS THING! I know they got theirs in the 70's and it looks to be the exact one you have. Just wow, awesome!
My grandmother had one of these when I was a kid -- I remember being *fascinated* with that animated seconds-counter on the right. I thought it was one of the neatest things. 🙂 What a great memory. And to finally know how it works just makes it even more fascinating. Thanks!
It still looks amazing even in 2022.
I really like the artifacting of the segments when the numbers change. Brass inserts rule!
Very cool clock and thank you for letting us peek inside! I'm fascinated how they managed to encode up to 12 states on just 4 tracks on the "encoder wheels" without using any diodes!
They didn't do it with only four tracks. There are more contacts on the back.
My Electronics Teacher talked about how some clocks rely on the steady 60Hz to keep time, but I never thought I would see one.
Thanks for showing us this, Fran~!
Actually, most clocks rely on the 60Hz line frequency to keep time. That's how any electric clock with a synchronous motor keeps time (most just have hands instead of light up digits). Radio/alarm clocks from the 70s and 80s with the LED or VFD displays and more modern ones with LCD displays do too. Usually one of the pins on the chip that runs the clock is connected to the step down transformer with just a diode (no filtering) and it divides that pulse rate by 60 to get seconds.
@@raymondcourtois67 Obviously I still have much to learn.
Thanks Raymond for taking the time to explain this; honestly, I never did complete that ( Core Electronics ) course, and so I kinda - sorta know a little bit about it, but that's all.
But I'm still very fascinated by electronics and by the way, Thanks Fran for continuing to make educational and entertaining content~!
I have to windy clock one a week.
Actually most of the world doesn't have 60Hz so I wonder why anyone would say most clocks rely on it.
@@nicolasjochem1814 True, I should have said most clocks in the US.. Clocks that run on 50Hz power work the same, just the gear ratio (or divider circuit for digital clocks) is different to get one revolution of the second hand per minute.
I remember seeing one like this when I was 7 years old. What a testament to quality engineering that it still runs well. The neon lamps still shine.
Testimony to quality design that it made an impression on you at age 7 ❤️
I imagine that if widescreen TVs had been a thing in the 70s, they would have looked like large versions of this clock.
It looks just like a Zenith Avanti from the mid-seventies!
A 1970s widescreen TV would use a wider CRT tube, and almost the same electronics, only with a more powerful horizontal deflection circuit. 4:3 was a compromise to work better with naturally round parts like lenses and CRTs. Widescreen movies used a special projector lens to take a 4:3 image from the film and stretch it out on the silver screen at the other end of the theater, just like amplifying the horizontal deflection signal in a TV.
Probably maybe if they had flat screen technology somehow.
Probably a what could have been punk thing like how some people think of steam punk or diesel punk or cyber punk.
uuh, a mechanical screen tv.
glorious 144p :)
For years my parents had one of these on top of their TV in the living room until some of the segments started getting twitchy. Wish we had simply cleaned the contacts. Beautiful and well thought out mechanism!
Wow - what a cool clock. With seven individual bulbs per digit and all those contacts in motion under constant friction I can’t believe any of these are still fully functional. It would be very satisfying to have all the needed replacement components on hand to keep one going for generations and to see people’s reaction to it over time. Thanks for sharing!
Cool video! 👍🏾 I own the lumitone version of this clock. It's named differently from the clock you have, because it has a built-in radio as well and it's totally mechanical, with the orange display just like yours. I absolutely love unique vintage clocks such as these. They are definitely good conversation pieces.👌🏾
I have a Lumitone radio as well as a Centech clock that works the same. I bought the Lumitone thinking that the Lumitime display was the same as a shutter clock, which I also have, mainly because of that fascinating transition from one digit to the next. Lumitime does it faster and with fewer transitions than a shutter clock. Shutter clocks backlight with a single bulb or a pair of bulbs and use cams to move physical shutters that block light on each segment. Talk about mechanical!
I love to see analogue equipment like that wonderful clock working, been involved with analogue kit since 69 and I'm still working with it to this day. Keep up the good work and many thanks for showing it to us.
18:30 - They made a "common" household clock in a way meant to be repaired. You don't see that anymore. Now it's just "throw it away if it's broken".
This has beautiful, hand-drawn board layout and impecable soldering.
The Japanese made great electronics back in the 1970s.
I'm always amazed at the mechanical solutions they used way back before you had circuitry to drive things, thanks for the teardown!
I swear, those engineers were half wizards.
This clock is a work of art from a time when things where made properly and made to last. The workmanship is quite incredible.
I used to have a clock like that except it was even more mechanical. Instead of electrical contacts and segment bulbs, the cam gears would physically move shutters to open and close each segment. The light came from two bulbs mounted behind the whole assembly.
That's what i expected this one to be at the beginning of the video
Until recently there were loads of petrol pumps doing something similar. The manufacturers thought LEDs would be too dim and LCDs would fail the first time there was a frost.
Yeah my clock radio was one, still somewhat common going into the 80s. So noisy in some cases.
i just realized, so many times I've seen you say to be careful not to strip, crack, break etc and have not yet seen it go wrong... i hate to think what would happen to of all these unique and delicate objects if someone like me had a go at what you do ;-)
i don't remember what happened with that museum thing but i assume since i haven't heard it's no longer relevant, but they really missed out on someone special, the combined knowledge, understanding and skill you have is really on another level, and you share all so generously. thank you!
I remember those!!
My mom got me one of these when I was very young...the model was the top-left one @ 2:26
Was always fascinated by the "seconds" movement.
Yeah, that seconds display really dredged up a half forgetten memory. I'm sure I saw one of these somewhere when I was a kid. Maybe it was at an Aunt's house or something.
Amazing! I remember seeing those digital -- but mechanical -- flip clocks at friends' houses back in the 80's (and I remember a friend's brother making a small oopsie while trying to fix one and getting he numbers slightly out of order), but I've never seen one of these "Lumitime" clocks. I love how easy it was to see the gears, cams, etc. in action (once it was open, of course) to understand, as a layman, how it works. Thank you for showing it to us!
Worth mentioning that the way these keeps the time without quartz or balance wheels is by utilising a synchronous AC motor. The AC frequency (60 Hz in the US) is what keeps the time, and it is incredible accurate. And that is why these clocks could not run on batteries.
I have a flip clock from the 60's or 70's that works in the same way, and it is the most accurate clock that I have.
Fran mentioned that the clock had a "universal motor". Actually, universal motors run on both AC and DC (brush motors). This motor is a synchronous motor, and Kriss is correct about the power utility company keeping the 60 Hz synced for use as a time reference.
IIRC, in the US, the AC power was spec'd the be accurate to 3 seconds (not a typo.) This means it could be very inaccurate over the short term and incredibly accurate over the long term. Measuring a year to +/-3 seconds was easy using AC power. Common crystal oscillators were nowhere near that accurate.
This is absolutely marvelous! I recall clocks like these from way back when but had no idea there were no electronics involved. Thanks for a great video!
A mechanical clock design like this would make for an amazing DIY kit, I'd love to put one together. Anybody know if they make those?
I think the coolest realization from watching these videos is that the way we do things on modern digital electronics, those patterns were well established way before digital electronics were really out there. For instance in this clock, you fast-forward the minute hand and it increments the 10's and hours from that, we do the same on nearly all of our electronics, when it would make more sense, and be easier to just have a button for each. That logic is there because of the gears that these relied on.
The switches remind me of a "mode switch" that you see in most domestic video recorders. That tell the system control IC where the loading mechanism is, so the loading motor can drive the deck to its various modes.
Very nice. However, some of the inner workings of the clock aren't shown IHMO. There's no way to control 7 segments making digits 0 thru 9 (as in the last digit display) using only four switches: so, there has to be another set of contacts and wipers on the back side of the wheels, which the PCB layout seem to confirm.
I went through the comments to see if anyone else also noticed this, it took me a while, but I found your comment - thanks for posting. I'm surprised more people did not notice this. I was trying to figure out how they achieved the BCD conversion, but when I saw the two contact pins on the back side for each wiper, I guessed there was a second set of wipers on the back side as well. The 0-5 (10's) digit only needed 6 (3+3) because the largest digit "0" would need 6 inputs, whereas any digit needing an "8" would need at least 7. Only other way to do this is using something like the 4511 Binary Coded Decimal 7-segment decoder.
I re-watched and around 19:19, you can see the wipers on the bottom at that angle.
I had a feeling it had a couple of timing encoders that drove the segments. Really clever, elegant design!
I'd hate to think how such a thing would be designed today.
Also when you first opened it and hadn't yet shown the bulbs, I thought that maybe there were lamps being attenuated by a silkscreened liquid crystal. It turns out those did exist at the time, which was really cool to learn about, although I don't know if they'd have been feasible for inclusion in such a product at the time.
The bulbs are neon indicator lamps
@@samuelfellows6923 yes, I saw the video.
I'm thinking that it could be designed the same way today, but would cost $200 and nobody would buy one since they can get an LED clock for $10.
Just think of the automatic transmission of a car. The first ones were introduced in the 1930s, the same time RCA was selling radios with wired arm chair remote controls.
It would have been very expensive and the contrast ratio between clear and dark was very poor then.
Very cool!
Also, I thought it was hilarious, while you were removing the screws from the clock, I noticed the ice cube tray propping up the clock, and I thought, "Oh! That's a brilliant idea! It'd be so easy to keep track of screws with so many partitions!" And then you put the screws in some sort of tray off camera
17:20 Looks like the PCB was wave-soldered in place. I wonder if there was a chunk of the mask missing where the solder could then come up and hit the plastic. Or there was no mask and they figured it wasn't going to be in the solder long enough to damage the plastic too much.
Yeah looks like wave solder remnants
Oh my gosh, you just unlocked a memory from when I was very little. My parents had one of these (or a similar model) when I was a toddler. I remember watching the animation for the seconds 😊
You're always coming up with the coolest retro items. So fascinating the way that all these different things work. I've never seen a mechanical clock like that before, I'd be interested to know how much time it loses (or gains) over time. Very neat!
Very accurate 60hz sync.
This is not only fascinating but also ingenious. Now I kind of want a similar clock. This probably would have felt almost magical when it came out.
Interesting clock, I like the way they designed it. The moving pattern at the side gives you something to look at.
Love the way they designed it, cool for the day. Only thing that might annoy me is if the motor started the growling/rumbling/growling noise some of these type of motors start to do as they age. But that one is still quiet.
Never seen one that I know of, interesting clock.
My grandparents had the white version Fran is playing with. They didn't have a lot of money, but they enjoyed their gadgets. I recall it did a decent job keeping time. As a child I would stay the night and stare at the moire flower for hours until I fell asleep. I haven't seen one in 45years and it brings back pleasant memories.
I coded some digital clocks in Second Life, and those wheels with section that have or don't have metal to complete the circuit of the wiper pairs had it's counterpart in my digital clock code because I needed to know which segments to 'turn on' and which should be off. So I had simply arrays (called lists), and would store 1's or 0's into the list depending on whether a segment needed to on or off. Simply a mechanical version of what's going on (I'm sure) inside modern digital clocks and my 3d rendered clocks in Second Life.
wow, havnt thought about SL in about 15 yrs, I used to make lamps with various modes, rented land and built a shop to sell them along with a friend that made clothes, my part time job was an "interactive" model in a store that sold adult animations. what a crazy place SL was.
@@flipclone Yeah, I learned scripting pretty well and have quite a few items still in the marketplace, and recently setup in world again, but I've already kind of lost interest, and I've been open a few months, and haven't made a sale. Seems people don't shop like the used to...lol
Your expertize is impressive! As is the ingenuity of the people who designed this clock.
As a teen in the 60s, I bought a "digital' watch from Edmund Scientific Catalogue. Interesting that someone was looking ahead, but It was just an analog watch that showed hours and minutes through windows like some watches show the date. Such a simple thing when compared to this device!
If I attempted to do what you did with this clock, it would not have survived the operation. Kudos! I'd love to see your face.
Elegant engineering, Japanese design at its best. Thanks Fran for sharing this lovely device.
You are the Bob Ross of obscure electronics in my opinion. Just discovered your channel while (admittedly drunk) surfing TH-cam on a Saturday night, and I LOVE IT.
Love your fix-it videos. That clear strip may have been intended just to keep dust of the gears . And after watching how the old telephone switching was done, I believe pre-solid state electro-mechanical devices can just about do anything.
Check Technology Connections video on an electro mech jukebox. Crazy stuff!
When you think about it though, micro-controllers are merely replicating in electronics what you needed to do on a much bigger scale mechanically. So yeah, with enough space and a ton of points of failure, you probably could replicate anything mechanically.
When I was young, about late teens to early 20s, I had one of these clocks with the starburst. When I couldn't sleep, I used to lay in bed and watch it. The time changed so interestingly, and now I know that it was not truly digital, but that it used light bulbs to light up the sections of the numerals. This was the mid to late 70s, and digital clocks and watches were still a new and mysterious thing. My favorite part was watching the starburst rotate. It was so soothing. I would dearly love to have one of these desk clocks today.
Neat! It's been a while since I'd seen one of these. I didn't realize it used neon bulbs, I'd always figured the company used mini incandescents. Certainly neon will have a far greater lifespan than what I thought they used. Judging by how lightly coloured the tape wrapping is on the motor winding either it is very well spec'd and doesn't get hot or this clock didn't see much use.
Great, now I want one!
The 0 jewels got a chuckle out of me after all the watch restoration videos I've watched.
Thanks for sharing, Fran!
What an amazing clock! Incredible Japanese engineering.
Maybe I missed it, but there must be a second set of contacts on the backside of those discs to handle the other 3 segments. Very hard to see, although the circuit boards eludes to the fact since there were 8 solder connections on the board. Since there isn't any electronics, only the 4 visible contacts wouldn't be enough. ❤ That thing is AWESOME! I've been loving these videos.
Description is in the text on the video when I show the mechanism.
@@WaffleStaffel pause around 19:19, you can see the second set of wipers on the back side. Also, if you pause on the circuit board and trace all the connections, logically, there has to be a second set of wipers on the bottom.
It said "AC only" on the back so I'm guessing it's a synchronous motor
Yes, and the neon bulbs are also happier with AC.
An analog clock with a digital display. Fascinating.
I wonder why Hackaday hasn't done an article on this yet. It's right up their alley.
Fran are you sure it isn't some kind of synchronous motor? A universal motor won't keep time because the speed depends on the voltage which varies a lot. The speed of a synchronous motor is locked to the frequency and they were regularly used for clocks. Power companies used to actually count the number of cycles in a day and add or subtract cycles to ensure those clocks kept time.
This. It has to be a synchronous motor, or otherwise there would have to be some other kind of very precision speed governor, which is hard to imagine with any cost efficiency and nothing shown hints of such.
This is great! Even though I'm 54 yo, I have never seen one of these. I thought I had seen everything. Thanks for showing it and digging into it. Great show as always Fran!
That's a synchronous hysteresis-reluctance motor, very commonly used in older electric clocks. A universal motor is a regular commutated/brush driven armature with field coils that can be powered by AC or DC.
That doesn't look like a universal motor, just an ordinary synchronous clock motor (which would make sense for timekeeping and light mechanical loads like this). A friend of mine also had a mechanical seven segment clock, but it worked by having little shutters that would blank off segments via a complex mechanical linkage (there was a single light source behind it). I was curious about it for years, as I was sure I could *hear* the digits updating, and sure enough when it eventually died, he let me take it apart so I could see how it had worked, and I apparently could hear the tiny "wheep" of the shutters sliding around when the digits updated.
My mom had one of those. A bulb went out so i took it apart when i was a kid. It did not survive
A salute to all the electronic and mechanical devices we, as kids, were going to "fix"...and turned into scrap. LoL!
@@aaronm9478 but we learned so much by breaking things
It’s awesome that they encased the gear assembly in that clear plastic, shows the engineers were proud of their work :) what a cool piece of technology, thanks for showing it off!
With NO Electronics!??? there is.. misleading title.
Amazing find Fran! This kind of reminds me of the "flip digital" clocks which were popular in the early/mid 70s - I remember as a kid having to set the digits for the time and alarm and getting frustrated when I over shot the time since you could not go backwards. Also had a AM/FM radio. This is even more amazing in that no electronics are used other than passive resistors. Here's a project for you Fran - convert this to a fully digital version using LEDs and a micro.
Your explanation, the choice of words and the servicing discipline (marking the seconds wheel position with arrow stuck, binning the screws) are all as beautiful as the clock. The electronics substitutes, the synchronous motor, the "decimal thumb wheel switch's code wheel integrated into the gear along with the PCB" were all mechanically "integrated" in a very nice way. Surprising thing was that the filament bulbs did last that long-may be reduced voltage driving?
When I was in high school I wanted to build an automated crane for a science fair using a program on a disk with contacts like those.
I ended up never finishing it but that's a thing that crossed my mind.
I have an old robotic coin bank from Radio Shack that lifts the coin and inserts it into the slot. It's all electro-mechanical using these sorts of techniques.
That's one of the coolest clocks I've ever seen. Thanks for the break down. It's so cool to see stuff like this that's all mechanical and I love how you're so careful with these delicate pieces of technology. Thank you for sharing this with us!
LOVE IT! You're so fearless taking that old gear apart - but your skill is obvious after just a few operations. Takes me back to me bashing days!
Thanks for showing this off. Great example of vintage manufacturing tech.
Stunning clock. I could watch the display all day. So mesmerising 😍
I have one which was sold by Sears, it’s really nice and bright and the starburst seconds thing is mesmerizing to look at during night. I love seeing all the digits flash on and off during the hour changes
What a fantastic device. Good that all the neon bulbs looked original and were still of equal brightness!
I almost didn't watch this post.
I'm glad I did, I love the care you take when tinkering around with this old piece. I would have broken several parts and had extra screws left over when thrown away.
Seems the Japanese manufacturer put real care and quality into almost everything made there I don't think I've ever come across a cheap Japanese piece of junk...
has anybody figured out how the encoding worked on these things?!
Only with resistors?
There are some paths on the backside that don't go to the lamp directly but next to it - I wonder what is on the other side.
Also I couldn't quite figure out how the lamps for 1 are turned on if no thunge is connected at all besides the common one.
Stuff from this era looks so well built and designed. Thanks for showing this.
I love your attention to detail regarding the possibility of damage through simple dismantlement. Is that even a word? Great teardown, Fran!
That looks more like a shaded-pole motor, although for line frequency based mechanical time keeping you'd need a synchronous AC motor which I think it actually has.
Marvelous machine, thanks for sharing Fran! :)
This was fascinating! I remember as a kid taking apart what I thought were "electronic toys" that turned out to have purely mechanical internals. (A talking robot was one --- It literally had a grooved plastic disc that worked like a vinyl LP) --- Love your channel! So much amazing content --- could get lost in here for hours!
Can somebody explain how the 7-segment are lit in conjunction with the wiper switches? At 13:00, on the "ones" digit, I notice the four wipers have no contact with the "common" wiper but the display shows the number "1". And if you notice the contact pattern, when the wipers are all in contact with the "common", it displays "0". However, on the "hours", when all wipers are in contact with common, it displays "12. So baffling!
I explain that in the text that is laid over the video at 10:38...
@@FranLab So there are wiper contacts at the bottom underneath which are not seen from the front view? ... Oh I get it now, those hidden wiper contacts can be deduced from the pattern on the pcb. Thanks!
@@MrKinyodude if you pause around 19:19, you can see the wipers on the bottom.
Fran, this video on the Lumitime clock was fascinating, one of your better presentations. The switching wheels in effect are the equal of BCD counter chips, how ingenious. No digital electronics, just mechanical switching!
Very educational. Enjoy seeing things taken apart to learn how they work. Thanks for the video.
what a cool little clock! The way those contact wheels work is genius! Would've never thought of something like that but once explained it's really easy to grasp. Also the seconds display thing is awesome!
That was a really cool tear down and repair. The icing on the cake Fran does her own music, and it is even has a swanky 70s sound contemporary with the clock.
I love that, the seconds display pattern is what makes it perfect
I had one from about 1976 to 81, it was my favorite. I’d stare at it and of space out, it was quite hypnotic. I still have it somewhere, in an opened state.
I really like that, so cool. I do many repairs and your comment is so seldom heard. I know from the first screw if a piece of equipment has been opened before. There is that 'click' that can be felt as well as heard.
i love seeing videos about things like this so I know what to look for when it comes through my day job. I do see weird, unusual and vintage electronics often.
Front plastic had Fresnel lenses to spread the single neon into a strip visually. Very nice engineering. Thankyou Fran.
It is amazing what electromechanical can achieve. I used to be a ships radio officer and on one of the ships I sailed on the watchkeeping receiver (that monitored the Morse distress frequency when I was ZZZZZ) was mechanical like a clock rather than electrical. Later analogue versions used Schmitt triggers and CR circuits to time the 12 four seconds dashes these receivers listened for. Still later again, digital timers came into play.....but this ship still had its mechanical version and it was still meeting survey requirements!
Wow! Nice! A 7-segment readout made using small incandescent lamps with reflectors and a mask. Cool. I've got some old Numitron incandescent displays. Would like to build
a Numitron clock with them. Have built several Nixie Tube clocks designed from scratch. Ever see the nice digital clocks made with a motor that turned flat sided wheels with
the numbers printed on them? Those were cool too.
Not incandescent those are neon
This channel rules every time I see a new video I know it's gonna have my full attention because it's going to be something unique and beautiful