Hey Albert, just wanna let you know we're proud of you for releasing this video and not afraid of breaking the destructive cycle of the korean cult like community. Keep it up ❤
What else can I say. Thank you Mr ATK for also recognizing and raising your voice with us about all the problems the game has and we been complaining for so long and not putting SG on a pedestal
Amazing video, thank you for sharing a new perspective that a lot of western players don't have on why there is pushback to changes in KR. I've never shared the common opinion that KR players are magically in love with a mindless grind for some reason, and this really sheds some lights on reasoning behind that perception. I hope to see good changes come to Lost Ark in the future, and if they don't, well, it's not like I've never seen this exact thing happen many times in the past.
This is a great video and sums up exactly how I've been feeling as a returning and new player. Gatekeeping, item restrictions, horizontal content, the list goes on. It feels overwhelming that I can't do anything else. It leads to burnout and exhaustion of the game.
I could deal with alot of the stuff but the gatekeepers did it for me. Bust my ass for weeks in them learning parties and watching your guides over and over to make sure I don't fk up just to get gatekept cause i prefer to use 1 character so my roster lvl is low. I even quizzed once that's when I really knew I was done
I agree exactly with Asmon's take on Valtan being the best designed raid, one mistake on hard would kill you but wouldn't wipe the raid. Normal Valtan is the most friendly legion raid for new players. With Vykas, the gatekeeping gets pretty bad with difficult group wiping mechs turning lobbies into exp only parties with high engraving/gems/cards. But Clown & Brelshaza knocks it out of the park with huge ilvl requirement which the honing system makes worse by gatekeeping most players out of learning raids. Then these frustrated players don't get to experience the new content while the Day 1 players or Whales can. After that they quit the game
Watched the whole 50mins of asmon's pov, he can't be any more true, especially the "exhaustion of content" part. I can also understand the korean community's pov with the "cheap rat" bit, but if smilegate won't make a move, they'll really run out of time with players getting burned out like coal to a train. Every player has seen/read/understand this quote - "It's not a game, it's a job." I hope the devs would actually do something big, Lost Ark is so fun when you don't consider it a chore.
Really great constructive criticism. I also really appreciate that you offer solutions to the problems, while bringing them up. Personally, as much as I've enjoyed the game in the past, it's been really difficult to find enjoyment in it nowadays. I switched regions, because the region I started in just didn't have enough players to make certain content enjoyable (e.g. co-ops). Since then I've been playing catch up. Something that in itself wasn't an issue for me, but when I was like 2 weeks "late" for Vykas, and made the mistake of learning it HM, skipping NM, it was an absolutely horrible experience. I'm a slow learner, and while everyone was trying to be nice, it was absolutely not enjoyable for me to learn with players so much more experienced than me. And I've had the nicest groups of super talented whales trying to help me; a privilege that not everyone has. It was such a stressful experience, that I've basically given up on trying to catch up and learning new raids after that. The anxiety I experience is just not worth it. Any discord learning groups you find basically fill up instantly, making it super difficult for a lot of players, who would really like to learn to do so. Really makes me sad, that there is so much potential interest, but so little the developers do to provide an incentive for more experienced players to take an interest in integrating newer ones into the community.
One time when the game was new I was complaining about the fact that rest was poorly implemented because it forces daily activity to be completely effective. Then some were like "then what would be the point of doing it daily" and that's when I realized these people don't play games for fun.
I still do shit rested, don't give a shit about effectiveness. Because if i actually do everything everyday, i just burn out much more quickly and quit. So i play less in order to play for longer.
I really love Hanumatan for its balance. You get rewarded for consistently attacking him with buffs that you lose upon being hit while his main mechanics with the armor can lead to punishing (but not unfair) attacks if not resolved !
He does have bullshit, like how too much damage causes him to skip destruction checks and thus he starts using ice and fire moves and does the aoe clap attack that is almost an one shot. And with players getting stronger and stronger, the chance of this happening increases more and more.
@@okagron lets make trixion dummy guardian raid... kill him only once per day in less then 1 min for 500 leapstones... best guardian for 99% people I bet KEKW
@@okagron That what actually makes it interesting for support, even if it may be sometimes a little hard to recognize in time (ilvl isn't everything). Support, in such fast party, should keep their awakening to help with these mechanic if you skipped destruction check. Boss also offers the destruction after wards so it's really just the swing in most cases and they can be played. In my opinion it actually makes the boss interesting even if you over level him, which wasn't the case for previous. Turtle being just more and more annoying (unless you had super buster party who managed to kill it before either escape).
I've quit after doing Brelshaza Normal G6 on 6 characters every week, on top of the other two legion raids, on top of doing the Caligalos Guardian Raid, on top of weeklies, and cubes, and boss rushes and unas and reputation and chaos. It piled up quickly and the game demanded me to be online everyday for HOURS So I started letting Guardian Raids going to rest... then I started to not do my una weeklies, then I started to slowly not finish all legion raids every week, forgetting to do them on one some alts, then I started to let Chaos build rest, and eventually I took a break. New games came out, started playing those and "resting my homework" turned out into a 2 month break from Lost Ark. I logged in to check the new update, and the 1535 I have on my characters is now basically the average, everyone in my friend list is Brel Hard ready, they are already wearing ancient armor pieces or ancient jewelry. I have to spend money or play catch up for a few weeks or months, constantly grinding again, only to start Brel Hard and be gatekept because I wasn't there to do it day 1. The game sucks when it comes to returning or new players, so I've quit for good, and the sad reality is that the players who are grinding and playing every day on Steam, are the same old players from the first few months of the game. When those players hit the same roadblock as me, and take a break that's too long, and break the FOMO... it's over. No one I know that quit, has managed to return, simply because the game doesn't work like that. The vertical progression prevents you from just jumping in and trying new content, so you're forced to play catch-up to the rest, only to be denied entry when you reach the latest content because you weren't there from the start. Meanwhile, I booted up ESO for the first time in two years, same level and CP, same gear and same character, even the same "old" meta build. I posted a message in the global chat, looking for a learning party for the latest added dungeon in the new expansion, and jumped right in. So long Lost Ark, and thanks for all the dailies!
I think Lost Ark West is gonna end up being a different game from Lost Ark Kr because of how much we are asking for changes and AGs and SG look surprisingly receptive.
Because there is no limit to how many accounts you can have on west. If the game did cost lets say the same amount as bronze founder pack we would not see the bot apocalypse on a scale it happened.
"surprisingly receptive" how deluded are you? If what we got is surprisingly receptive why did a year pass with only bad things happening and we got no change yet, just empty words, when the servers are almost empty.
@@AlexanderBC42 Well hello ! Some games never listen to anything the community says. Especially when it's a Korean game. We are right now getting changes to the game that aren't even live on Kr and might never reach them. I'm not saying this is a lot by any mean, but it's something at least, some games get less than that
Good points all around. I love this game and have cheerfully accepted the frustrations along with the enjoyment. I look forward to the ongoing conversations that will improve the game.
Apparently the devs disagree given that they made Clown purposely much harder because they thought Valtan and Vykas were too easy. And really, my problem is not even the difficulty. Brel 1 to 4 are reasonable in terms of time spent, but Brel 5 and 6 are just exhausting. After just doing one Brel 5 and 6 in a week, i don't even bother with other characters because i'm just tired. They need to make Brel 5 and 6 shorter and add a cutscene skip.
I’m a new player. My level is in the 30’s and I’m enjoying the story. Im using map genie to get all the things I can in each zone I enter. I see videos about what awaits me after hitting 50 is destroying my hopes for fun later. Im looking forward to feeding my completionist tendencies but I’m very nervous I’ll not be about to do anything due to gatekeepers. It might honestly kill the game for me but I hope not. Thanks for the vid.
If korea afraid of changes then dont change the korean version just the na/eu, what smilegate need to do: 1) mentor system to help new player 2) pheon remove on stone and tripod 3) decrease chaos dungeon runs but have the same amount of loot 4) more viable engraving for dps and support, engraving right now its too linear with no variety of build. 5) life energy like excavation shouldn't be 1st come 1st serve everyone should be able to gather at the same time this will reduce the price and lowering the price of honing oreha in market which is actually healthy for the game economy. 6) open the game for asia and oceanic player to join, we know some of them use vpn to bypass the region lock but instead of region locking let them join, there's already a community consist of them just make the game accessible world wide 7) skin and cosmetic, if korea can have a contest for cosmetics why can't we have it too? 8) every class should be viable not one class weak and the other class engraving is gigachad, the difference from 1 class engraving is insane, its like pistoleer and enhanced weapon pistoleer is so weak its a joke, taijitsu against shock night and day difference on end game raid the list goes on, don't make the game too linear what we want is variety 9) food buff requirement are too much, people who uses cursed doll have a negative healing most of them are forced to used masterwork food buff just to remove the negative effect, the problem is to make one takes time and to purchase it is costly, reduce the amount to craft this food buff so the food buff won't be expensive and accessible by new player who want to use cursed doll. P.S, feel free to copy and continue with your opinion and suggestion.
@@rushdrift typical toxic random internet dude missing the point by a mile getting into semantics xD Let me edit the reply specially for you. Also a bit of definition here for you: ARGUMENT - "a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory"
Gimmick is a common theme for MMO raids, but I dont like hard gimmicks that have nothing to do with combat. I dont want to do 3 jumping jacks and 2 push ups then resume a fight. But I also grew up with Monster Hunter so that might be why I dont like gimmicks.
Man, it was depressing to quit LA. I didn't want to, because reaper was probably the most fun class I've ever played in an mmo, quite honestly. And I endured all the ridiculous class gatekeeping, all the people saying my class was trash, and berating me for the very few times I made a mistake, even though I rarely made mistakes *on the raids I learned*. And the daily stuff, while annoying, was bearable. I don't mind grind, one of my favorites games is RO. But after brel release, and after fighting against and training on prokel for a long ass time (because I thought he was super fun) and nailing the prokel solo on ilvl without using all my pots, I'd go and apply to a simple G1-2 and no one would take me because I didn't want to sneak into reclear parties, and at that point prog parties were just gone. Gear was all good, really good even, but a 110 roster reaper was like a player repellant. Make your own parties, no one joins, try to setup a learning party, no one joins, just like you say in the video. Apply, and either get ghosted or rejected. When I realized I was spending more time staring at the party finder and begging people to let me join stuff instead of playing, I decided to just stop. Really sucks. I don't like having to fight people and compete with people just to play *with* people in freaking farm content.
I actually love the idea you mentioned of something like For raids that give resources required to progress: remove wipes, make it a tight DPS check. Clearing the mechs gives you a buff that makes the DPS checks irrelevant (could be a stacking buff for each mech, or just 1 strong buff for X amount of time that gets reset upon clearing the next mech), but failing all mechs means that you have a tight DPS check. It still encourages you to get the mechs done, but you're able to clear the raid even if you fail (or at least get more prog in since if you can't clear certain mechs you can get more experience with the fight anyway instead of doing the same parts over and over and not getting to try later parts). You could also do something like make these changes to Normal mode and keep Hard Mode with wipes (for raids that give the same progression resources such as Valtan/Vykas/Akkan) and have them in both modes for raids that give different resources based on difficulty (Brel Normal vs Hard).
Best dual perspective content by far. Would've love to hear more ideas and solutions though. There are so many more things to be discussed from all perspectives. Great vid ATK
I played LA from western release for about 4 months. I joined a very nice guild and we all progressed together the first weeks. We were hyped, when Argos and Valtan released and had so much fun progressing and beating those together as a guild. But then it became quickly apparent to a large chunk of players in the guild, that there is no point in doing a full guild run (outside of fun), but rather split up in teams of 2-3 people and create busses to get more gold to progress their characters. The guild fell apart in the following weeks and I lost my enjoyment of playing LA. > And this is the crucial neckbreak with a progression system tied to ingame currency. Lost Ark is an MMO, where every endgame progression system is actually anti-social by nature. If you compare to "classic" MMO like World of Warcraft, yes, you can also boost people there for some kind of pay, but in essence, I can't really buy power with wow gold, so the boosting community has their own niche, disconnected from the "normal" player. In Lost Ark your character progression is directly tied to your ability to carry other people for payment and due to lockout, you can't play the endgame with your guild and friends without stunting your character's growth. For me, personally, to wanting to get back into LA, they need to remove bus meta completely. My idea to accomplish this? Give groups consisting of members of one guild significantly more rewards. This will encourage people to get together and actually socialize to beat content and be rewarded for it.
sure... but then if you're not in a guild that runs together you're not getting the max rewards? idk seems kinda bad for new players. but it could change the community for the better and be willing to help mokokos. who knows.
@@kfactor99 I mean, yea, it surely isn't as easy like that. all I am saying, endgame content needs to have incentive and no downside for playing with your friends and your guildmates.
They need to doo the daily content fun, legion raids must be a extra content not the core of game. And the rewards are joke we get new Guardian and what are the rewards the same mats but more wow amazing 🤣 devs dont even made new raid for ancient gear just the same brell hard amazing copium. Guardians and chaos can be fun make it longer with 2 stages add somethin new too it some fun mech and 1 per day. Focus on something new not just the same shit over and over again.
@@FAILLTheRevolution also the opposite of what people want. Chaos and guardian should be double rewards for 1 run. No doing it twice each. Playing 6 chars is a 2nd job. It's why I quit.
I played clown for two weeks before quitting the game entirely. The reason being that the raids were too time-consuming to clear, despite having six characters with my main at 1520 and all alts at 1485+. I had invested over $7000 in total and spent an average of 10+ hours every day playing. It wasn't until clown I realized how much this game had taken over my life. The weekly raids alone were too demanding, not to mention the daily. Although it was enjoyable, it shouldn't have consumed so much of my time considering the amount of money I put into it. One can only imagine how much others would have to grind if they didn't spend as much.
Sometimes I wish Lost Ark felt more like a MMO. If you think about it, all you're really doing is instanced encounters, there is no exploring, no interacting with other players or environments. I kinda miss that feel of playing MMO that wow or black desert or ff gives you with all the playing music, travelling etc. Oh right, ppl will say "then go play that game" haha. Thanks for the video ATK
I agree that chaos/guardians should be 1, not 2. But I also think the "6 character limit" shouldn't be limited to 6 characters, just 6 instances.. so if you're really enjoying playing your Destroyer alt one day and want to KEEP playing it, you can do ALL 6 runs on it (and then you can't on any other character.)
I couldn't handle the daily grind on 6 characters anymore. Loved the game for about a year, but it started feeling like work, i had no fun and it took hours out of my days. Also spent an unfortunate amount of money on it. Couldn't imagine playing it for free, it would require even more time invested. I feel free now that i'm done with it.
Smilegate needs to make sure that players can also create their own gears from guardian raids,abyssal dungeon or chaos dungeon not only from legion raid, because not everyone has time to learn the mechanics and play so much in order to make progress, otherwise players can no longer progress in this game and will stop to play.
I'm currently playing Final Fantasy XIV and my last MMO before that was Lost Ark. The difference between the two is like night and day. I loved Lost Ark at launch. Before all the bots and before the endgame. The world felt alive and people interacted with one another and worked together. Then after a lengthy journey, I finally hit Punika and T3. And after that, well, it felt like I was playing a completely different game to say the least. Especially after Argos and soon Legion Raids came out. Doing dailies/weeklies to progress and the only way to get better gear being to do the raid content with other people. People who leave after one wipe. People who never say hi or talk unless it's to berate someone for messing up. And so on. There are no alternative ways to progress like crafting gear, running different kinds of content, stuff we did before, or anything. There's also pretty much almost no reason to go back to previous zones too so the world felt pretty dead, especially with all the bots running around. The obsession with optimization and progression is extremely prevalent in this game IMO. It's like there's nothing else that matters. Whether it's by the design of the devs or the actions/mindset of the community itself, I can't really say nor do I really care. All I can say is I feel it's a problem that's killing the game and it needs to be fixed. The average MMO player, the vast majority, tends to be the solo casual PvE player. Alienate that portion and there won't be that many people playing. Which is pretty much what happened I would say and why it feels like the game has been declining. I myself quit because I'm certainly not a hardcore player nor do I want to be. I play games for fun. To blow off steam. Have cool adventures. Chat with nice people. Be able to do my own thing. I don't play to do "homework". As it stands now, Lost Ark is most certainly not the game for me and I don't see myself playing a Korean game again tbh.
Nice video ATK and it's good a big LA influencer gives his thoughts to improve the game And i had some ideas from streamers like you and opinions about the game kind of like a inspiration Those like Add a repetition of all or most of the dungeons or remastered them but for tier 3 mode, making it longer something like wow I mean reward you with pieces of t3, titles, skins, like a glow or aura on your armor or just gold kinda of rng stuff but one of those will be good right? because I will tell you something very casual players even in Korea they don't even bother to do brelz for the same reason that is very hardcore coop thing like asmong was saying. The problem about being a group 4 man or even a 8 man group in dungeons are not like that fun because the style of the game being arpg is not as immersive like a third person mmo plus it will feel to "easy" they can add like some different camera angles changes like in brelz or the abyss dungeon water boss in some parts to get that spice into the gameplay The solution that i thought about is like splitting the group with different path, example: if its a 8 men party it would be 4 paths, each path only 2 players can go and will have like a "puzzle" zones then a miniboss room or something like that to open the last gate to fight the end boss of that dungeon. The mini boss won't be like crazy difficult just make them fun not to easy but also not insanely tanky because if 1sup goes with 1dps they will take a bit more longer to kill. Other stuff will be balancing you character to not being so OP or to WEAK for the run and also preventing keep gating OR just get away the party finder just choose your role dps or supp it can be only dps in a party no problem only you will consume more potions BUT can't have more than one SUP in each party because for obvious reasons. They can add more pets and mounts obtainable in game like doing certain stuff (no rapport or reputation) by exploring, doing some hidden quests in islands etc. If they have problems to making quest for lack of personal or time the community can help kinda of "i did this story and i think it will fit for a quest in lost ark" and in the quest will bring the "author" just for more horizontal stuff. Make skins out of guardians like in MH Getting them ingame by SOLO killing the guardian but like a challenge version for the lower tier guardians add them new attacks plus the game will balance you like in pvp, choose your stats and engravings like in hell mode but with pvp scaling (why? because in pvp bards and pala have good dmg and will be able to kill the guardian before the times end) or maybe balancing you depending on your class AND you only need to kill it ONCE or if it's seems to easy maybe 6 times (maybe it's allot right?) if you want the full set skin head, gauntlets, armor, lower body and weapon the ones you want Making combinations of different guardians sets like in MH something like that to be "unique" and also flex that you solo that guardian. In pvp well just give good rewards to do pvp content like mats and that kind of stuff WHEN FINISHING not trading with the pvp merchant (because in lot of mmo, pvp is important to maintain their player base active like in wow).
I have repeatedly given feedback to amazon every time they do a questionare about the game (I also think the cumulative effort of both amazon doing them and the community engaging with them, joined with people leaving the game, being the principal motive of AGS speaking up about lost ark in the west). I always mention that dailies should be 1 per day instead of 2, but one of the most important things is about bussing, because going afk for 30 minutes in multiple characters every week makes players feel like they are losing agency, you could add a toggle for squads above a certain ilvl to instead of playing as 8 people they play as 4, 3, 2 or 1, granting for example 1.5x, 2x, 3x and 4x gold reward respectively. Doing that while adding an easy difficulty that gives half the value (although the same materials same valtan bones, vykas wings, kakul and brel mats, as people get gatekeept at ilvl of content because they dont have them). I think there is so much room that AGS could improve, one of the worse things about this game is that I feel like I accomplish the same in 2 hours of play daily than 8 hours of play daily. You can min max a lot of in-game things like trade skills but the sad thing is that you for example get more value from crafting 24/7 than using tradeskills 24/7, with the later one taking a lot more effort. I can say the same about a lot of things in this game. Crafting, Una's and chaos are all you need to do in this game, which takes roughly 20 minutes per character, anything further than that is low effiency content in my opinion. One more giant thing is that every single horizontal content is gated by time which feels beyond bad, with load times being 10 minutes, having to be somewhere at a certain time feels pointless. They should open up a lot of stuff more. I thought they would strife towards that when they announced all the minigames like the moba that they announced, even the jurassic park thing was fun, the thing that scares me is that it looks like every single thing will be time gated. I dont understand why so much timegate, it is not that hard to queue for 16 people in a server with 20k+ players, seasonal events (racing, mini-fights,etc...), chaos gates, even world bosses could continiously roam like they did in the story. Recently completed tome in so many areas, I realized one thing, worldbosses that arent time gated are cool as fuck, I realized the same while beating the story for the first time, it is just cool. The game is trying to actively make itself a task-game, a work-like game, devoided of fun, played by routine instead of fun. Been jumping through different mmos, arpgs, games in general since quitting lost ark, still havent found something where I had more fun than when I was playing lost ark, a game that didnt make itself too difficult but that you still needed to learn the game to confidently beat stuff, it even has great progression (if you dont mention the hours). The game really is fun, I just dont know why they are so afraid to tone down their game, poeple arent going to stop buying gold or skins by making their life easier, in any case they might stop quitting.
don't play lost ark anymore but this video is so true grinded the game so hard back then only to get stuck at the lobby finder and dailies take up way too much time and induces burn out as well. I hope SG and AGS will be able to resolve the many issues lost ark has and I hope to come back to the game in the future. thank you for the video mr atk !
Personally I think the worst problem is, noone has time to have fun. It is extremely rare, where you are done doing everything you can to progress your character and still have energy to do anything for fun. Like fck id love to do hell mode valtan, but 1. i have no time and 2. i already need to do valtan 6 times every week.
This is an issue. I understand the need of building your char but after that...why? Just why cant you not do all possible weeklies and instead try going down that helltan you enjoy despite being hard? Why not for once prioritize the eventual static prog run over your 30 weekly dungeons? To me it seems you decide to not have fun but keep grinding weeklies even when you kinda finished your main + at least 1 alt.
@@namaerro6738 because after you are done with chores for the day, either you are already sick of LA and dont want to play mroe for the day and you just have no energy, or you just simply dont have enough time left to start helltan.
this is 100% the state of the game, everyone is running for dear life to catch that weekly gold, nobody has time for anyone, quick quick get the most geared people go next raid next raid next raid. it sucks that there is nothing else to do beside run after gold in a lot of lost ark content once you reach end game and have done everything to get most of the skill points. I used to ditch my daily for hell and it was the most fun I have had in a while, sadly hell is mostly dead because of the consumables and time sink. no one wants to play something with no rewards specially in lost ark, oh and lets not forget the carries that will pilot it for you
I started almost 2 weeks ago, and am now at 1398 with no more honing mats to hit the 1400 milestone for more honing rewards. Now i'm just patiently waiting for the moment i finally hit 1400 to then patiently wait for the next milestone again. To be patient was the most common advice I got for playing this game, which unironically seems to be the only thing i can do which is patiently "wait" because finding any group willing to take me for any of my current level content seems impossible.
I would highly recommend joining a guild. If you are really against it, I would check all the buttons and widgets and see where they lead you. Max roll is a decent resource for guides, and the Discord and Reddit are useful for interacting with the community in a more limited sense.
1:57 I have 5x3, epic engravings, correct stats, with a 6/6 stone with 1415 with 1370 and 1415 assessorites with level 2-5 gems, 10/30 light card, rank 3-5 tri pod, 1000 hours, spend 0 dollars on the game. However, before I even thought about applying or creating a party to try and fight Vultan, I had no gold already lost the desire to play. This was because of a mix of carries and normal runs of Argos as well as trying to do my guardian riads, chaos dungeons, una's task daily and weeklies on 4 characters, island souls, and other tokens to attempt to increase power. 623 hours the first time, came back 6 months later with the last 400 hours for the lost ark new year's event. I never complained on the forums because I assumed it would only lead to "get good". I have over 20 games played on mmo's and this is the one with a moderate-high amount of play time, and a mix of the community, guild, streamers (like Rich and Stoopz) and random people in the game helped in making me not happy with my time. I did not enjoy my stay, but I am glad to hear ATK enjoys his time.
I'm playing the game since it was released in the west(quit the game in July, started playing again in August.) . I'm a f2p, my main is 1490 since like a few weeks. Yes, I could have a higher gear level by now, but I was/am so scared of going into legion raids. When I hit 1415, it was a month after that, when I did my first ever Valtan raid and it wasn't me who did it, it was a bus. I didn't buy that bus because of gate keeping, but because I knew that no one would be mad at me for failing a mechanic. I love this game. I don't want to quit. The gameplay, islands, the different continents, the story, playing the game with that one friend I have. I need to do Brelshaza now to craft the new gear, but it's really hard to find a party that is willing to accept you. Since I'm a f2p, I don't have the best gunslinger in the game, but definitely good enough for playing a goddamn legion raid. It would be very helpful if the developers think of another way to get the Brelshaza drops... Or legion raid drops in general. Also guardian raids, we currently have 24 different guardian raids in the game, but we do the same one every day. Why play only one when we have 24 different ones? Ppl get sick of doing always the same stuff, maybe change it up a bit. Make the guardians random, change them everyday. (English is not my first language, sorry if I made some mistakes)
Sometimes I miss this game. And people I have met. And the great content creators I still follow. Don't think I'll come back after probably 3k hours played...
@@auditionko I mean ye. We can tell guild wars 2 respects your time as well but what's the point of MMORPG when gear doesn't matter at all and ppl can obtain same gear from professions as from raids. I would never play such thing. I want to feel rewarded for my time.
@@vengon9655 I think Runescape respects your time. You can do everything alone in Runescape, including grinding, raids, and more. If you do need to do something in a party, it's most likely to be a minigame, and if you die, it doesn't affect other players
i think the problem here beside of community arguments is think why this game is for, its a alt game with fun pve or its a fun game pve playing with only 1 character where alts is only need if you enjoy play with them and not only for materials that to be honest, its feel like the devs want to do something but someone have a diferent idea and they develop both ideas without know the other project in the end have a multi project that have no direction with the original game idea
I used to play diffrent korean MMORPG (extremly action based) called Dragon nest. Just so people were aware, this is very hard MMORPG at highest level of play, raids like red dragon nest hardcore had like single clears on entire server and that was all people could do, Sea dragon nest hardcore on 40 level cap was only cleared by one party in entire world, and in fact Korea didn't manage to do it on own server, but Europe. A lot of issues you talk about were heavy eliminated in Dragon nest in few diffrent ways: - there is big difficulty gap between hardest content and normal content. No one was gatekeeping there anyone normal nests etc. only for dragon raids that were exceptionally difficult and a little (but much less, for later content 6 man raids). Thing is you never needed itemization from those dragon raids so most people simply didn't. Lost ark forces us to clear content even if it might be too difficult for players - "virgin" bonus - if someone is new and didn't clear raid before, that guy grants bonus loot to everyone on 1st clear. It wasn't huge bonus but noticable one and it incentivized to take fresh mokokos into raid and make them learn nest/raids etc. - party buffs/debuffs on boss were not limited to party but to raid (8 man). So for example party 1 sorceress dmg amp would increase dmg of people from party 2 as well. This meant you could increase a bit more hp of boss and therefor make it harder for bussers, but also make it easier for proper 8 man party. This of course in context of LA would have to not apply to supports buffs, but i think debuffs on bosses could benefit from sharing between parties. - none of boss mecahnics were requiring insane number of people. Pretty much every single dragon raids mechanic to be succesful never required more then 4 people (and there are 8 people), even in hardcore raids. So you didn't have those situations like from g5 brel - one person dies and restart. And now another person dies and restart. What you felt is significant dmg drop on boss from lacking one person, but content wasn't made in way you needed all time 8 man to clear stuff even dmg wise. For me good idea would be to remove sidereals and make mechanics utilizing sidereals easier. For example Valtan G1 orb mechanic - give more time for people to do stagger but remove Wei. So now people can do slowly and properly the mechanic without stressing too much to do things fast, but you cannot bus/cheese stuff with Wei.
I was burned out around valtan release for like 2 weeks, then 1,5 months respectively. I returned just before vykas release, and after a year, I got burned out again for 2 weeks. I was already way behind, and now I am even more behind. Back then the reason for me burning out was grinding the same thing, and not getting anywhere, while people already have 6 alts at 1460, while i was just barely doing valtan hard on my main. Now I'm burned out cause I can't be bothered to prog 6 hours a day to maybe clear brel hard g2, cause people keep failing. I decided to spend my time better. I came back for slayer, lot of good updates came, I'm excited, hopefully things work out, and I could still spend my time elsewhere and complete what I wanted in lost ark.
it feels like working at this point - since the gold got nerfed for argos, valtan nm and vykas nm, it doesnt feel worth walking these, even tho you still get gold with some characters.. ive been grinding for my main cause building up a character eats so much gold that it takes months to push a character with 4-5 engravings, especially if its a mage class or a new released one
i get gate kept on argos due to roster level being to low, and due to ilevel being not high enough, i am forced to buy busses to get the materials to get relic gear but not enough gold to hone my gear. I would now argue that it takes me longer to get relic gear as a "solo" player than what it did when valtan/vykas raid first came out for everyone else. I feel forced to make more characters in T3 so i can get enough mats to hone next month due to not having enough gold. It feels im always playing catchup and the moment i hit 1590 new content is out and i still have to pay for busses since i will still have to low gear. i cant buy books to get engravings since i dont have enough money. its hard for me to do card runs since i dont have enough ilevel. I can keep this going, i love lost ark and i have playd it for the last 2 months. it took me little to no time getting to T3 but now i have been stuck at 1455 for over a month and i will probably be stuck for a couple months more. Only way i can make gold 20k every 8 days is fishing. but 20k is not enough when valtan costs 1800k gold (bus) vykas 2400-2800k (gold). and because of using alot of gold on bussing i dont have enough gold to buy the extra chest in the raid to get more mats for relic gear. Net positive on both raids gives me 1k gold (ish) on 1 character. and i only have 1 character in 1415+. I will soon have 2 characters in 1415. If smileazon makes it so that argos valtan and vykas did not have a full raid wipe mechanic as a new player we would get up to 1490, still make gold and do card runs without needing a bus. Keep brelshaza as is with the vibe mechanics and make that the "hardcore" content OR any normal mode on argos valtan vykas take away wipe mechanic, and keep them on hard, while doing that make argos hard mode for the wipe mechanic. by doing this this will not hinder the hardcore players to enjoy their hard game, and will take away the need for bussing at least for normal and casuals can still enjoy the game up until 1490 before deciding to join the "hardcore" players. I bet alot of people reading my message will say that im a casual player or stupid for having these thoughs but a game will only be popular if casual players like me continu to play the game and buy skins. if all of us left only 5% of the player base would only play, and there would not be anyone you can bus to make money. Hope smilazon do something to "help" the casual players base to make entry for playing easier.
I kinda would like you to talk to Stoopz about the multiple alts neccesity subject. At this point, you two are saying different things. Stoopz is saying that you can be capable of doing current content as F2P with 1-2 characters, and other people are saying you need 6 or more. It definitely would be interesting to see a podcast episode with you guys discussing this stuff.
Spot on video! I've got 1 single high level ilevel character, and I've chosen to step away from being HC on multiple chars. The game is a lot more fun when you have people to play and interact with, but it seems thats much less now that the game is so unfriendly to new users. Like you, I also play MMO's to have fun with people, but LOA just doesn't have the social aspect I was looking for. I still love the game and play it every week, but nowhere near as I used to.
Probably getting trashed for it but thing Id change if I would be a LA dev: 1.) alts: should be an option not a must, you got 6 "entries" for gold earnings aka if you only select 1 character you get 6 times the rewards for each activity. That would make alts totally optional but not punishing to play them since you get the same rewards at the end of the week. 2.) guardians and chaos dungeons: similar to the first point you should get a bit more rewards if youre doing it on 1 character but id also include a daylie guardian rotation like the weekly challenge ones. you can select the guardians level requirement and the game scales its stats up to the selected point (your gear stays the same and is not adjusted!). You could replace chaos dungeons for random levels of the spire. eventhought thats not the best solution youd atleast have a different challenge every day. 3.) gatekeeping the newbies: I think a reward system for playing with new players would be cool. destiny has something similar like that. If you help people completing their first brel for instance. You can also just buff up new players like tera did aka give them improved stats and a free revive for each gate so they are not as heavy of a burden to play with but can actually perform similar to more geared players if they are good since their stats are buffed up. 4.) hellmodes: since hellmodes are pretty much only good for either having fun, trying out new builds or getting titles for flex I think this content should have 2 different version with 2 sets of rewards. the current version where your gear is capped and preselected BUT you wont consume battle items (similar to trixion practice mode). the other version of hellmodes would NOT have a gear cap BUT would consume battle items. this mode would be easier to bear since you can outscale it with better gear but it also makes practicing hellmodes easier and not as punishing. You can earn a clear title as well as a deathless title but they are blue instead of orange. Id really love to hear some feedback of you guys and we could talk about my ideas
Several of the points you brought up is EXACTLY why I quit months ago. Did Helltan, had 3 characters at Kuku, etc. The mindless BORING grind is absolute torture. There was literally nothing fun aside from raids but you HAD to do Chaos/Guardians multiple times a day or you'll be behind as hell. Was fun while it lasted.. If they made some changes to the boring ass grinds, I'd probably come back.
I ended up quitting when brel was just released playing since launch due to it being finals week and just feeling a bit disenfranchised with the game. my main reason is a lot of the things you mentioned with how much time investment it takes to maintain six characters. if it was worth my time to do these grinds I would do them, however given the North American launch is many months or even years behind content all content and theory crafting with characters ends up just being copy whatever Korea did. that is the biggest issue I have and ultimately what led to me wanting to just quit and wait for something else because I had fun playing it but the time investment to play a checklist wasn't that fun to be worth spending every single day 8 plus hours a day to attempt to keep up. having played a few Korean MMOs now as well as Korean mobile MMOs I understand how the investment model as you mentioned works and how Korean microtransactions and financial design of the game works, overall I'm okay with it I think it's not a terrible model it sucks that a person can spend $100,000 and get ahead but as long as it's not too unreasonable it can be fun to still play along beside them. Lost ark lost me when it was no longer fun and it felt more of like a job to do this checklist to do clown to learn Brel just to execute these things that I already know how to do because there's a very precise guide on how to do absolutely everything.
7:43 it seems like you exclude one thing, it isn't only because of loud voices in the community. Although people recognize loa as alt-forced game, Surprisingly there is also a plenty of people playing only one or two chars, not to mention there are still completely new player that has only one main. For those, if SGR decide to reduce daily chores then those people would play only ten or twenty minutes in a day for combat content(which I was exactly doing several months ago, too) I think it's big part of reason as well. I still agree that it's better to have less time to do chores tho.
I got burned out with Lost Ark and stopped. There were many things I liked about this game, and I still think for a more "hardcore" crowd, it's one of the best MMOS. The main thing I would have changed, if I could do it again would be not doing as many alts. Lopang alts are kind of a necessity, but I would just have used free powerpasses to level-up those. I think smilegate is not doing a good job in protecting players from themselves when it comes to player burnout. So, any change which pushes people into playing fewer characters would be a win in my book. I also think I got a little burned out by the third gate of Kakul-saydon. Most raids are either fun or satisfying, but on Kakul G3 the predominant feeling for me was anxiety. I also didn't find "horizontal content" very satisfying... A lot of "horizontal content" is just waiting for loading screens. The age of the game shows... There's ton of content in the game that's just not fun at all for anybody. I wouldn't mind if Smilegate just looked at the game, found the parts which were just not fun, and just removed them. Honestly, if Smilegate released a game which were JUST RAIDS, I'd be really excited about it, even if they were reusing a lot of assets from Lost Ark.
My biggest issue with the game is the gold aspect. Acquiring the amount of gold required to get one correct accessory, is ridiculous. You only make 6k per week with 6 characters (at Argos), assuming of course you don’t get carried. So to put together a build that won’t get you gate kept, takes months, and this is just to do Valtan or Vykas. Also not accounting for engraving books and materials to hone.
ngl, it's almost impossible to learn a raid without knowing people that are willing to help. As a dps, Its hard to compete with whales on content release for a slot in learning parties. Then once the learn phase is over, its just reclears and busses. My apologies for not having lvl 10gems
This game is so unforgiving for someone who doesnt study the game or use discord to find a group. The design should be that everyone plays together and you dont feel stressed about blowing up a raid with a mistake.
The whole "daily tasks" argument, I agree - use rested. I only have 6 chars 5 of them are 1560 or higher. The other one is 1540. The only money I've ever spent was on ark pass. I don't do dailies every day. We get so much free stuff from events, log in rewards, twitch drops, prime loot. Literally so many FREE resources and people still fomo. I'm doing the same end game content as everyone else without investing the amount of time most do. You dont need to be 1600 giga whale lvl 25 weapon los 30 juicin to enjoy the game.
gatekeeping is one of the most annoying thing IMHO. i understand not many people can do flawless raid since it takes time to learn the mech. sometimes learning the mech through youtube is just to know what the mech will do and the requirements to do it. learning by doing is the most efficient way to familiarize urself with the mech. but then again, there is gatekeeping.
I'm glad im not crazy, I started saying consumables should be a part of hell mode preset since valtan hell released, kinda fun most of the feedback you provided is similar to what a lot of ppl've been saying since game released. Hopefully developers will listen to some of this.
Too many players (Myself included, i use to think this way) feel that not doing something should result in being punished or falling behind because you're not dedicated. I would be happy with 1 chaos dungeon and guardian per character OR if you don't do your 2 chaos/guardians, you build up rested FASTER so that if you miss one day, you get double loot for the next two kills, so you're not losing out unless you're full rested. Maybe both changes would work best since we already have 5 rested bars, if we go down to 1 chaos a day, miss 5 days, the next 5 days provide double loot. This would go a long way to alleviate the feeling that you're missing out or being unable to catch up as you can't dedicated the ~3 hours a day to play multiple characters.
So the funny thing about the KR farming for real money point in EU/NA servers is that we can't do that, because bots dictate the RMT pricing to the point where it would not even be worth it to grind it out for selling legitimately.
I really loved the exploration and finding quests on all sorts of islands, meeting new characters, the rapport system and all. I really liked the art direction and the fact that there are medieval castles then the SF militaristic world with robots and all that. The gameplay is amazing, the fluidity and everything. For me, it all fell down when it got to the raids. I just don't find them fun at all. I understand people that like to have a challenge and I don't say remove raids, but I would have liked if Lost Ark had other ways of gear progression (that can be achieved solo). It is also very dependent on alts which is okay but in the long run is very tiring. Honestly it was a great game and experience up until the raids. The fact that if you make a mistake wipes the whole raid is just dumb. Not for me. I am really waiting for Diablo 4, and one of the biggest reasons is because it offers a better solo experience.
THIS!!! I honestly love the horizontal content, the story, the gameplay, the rapport stuff, exploring islands and so on. But I also like to progress like every player but the Legion raids are too hard and time consuming for me and almost impossible with a random squad. Also the huge punishment and wipe after a mistake is a problem too as you said. If there was a way to gear progress without it, I would enjoy LOA so much more. I know that most players love challenging stuff but it's really not for me and as a solo, casual player that still wants to progress, it's really difficult to keep on staying active in this game.
I recently quit the game because of how the game consumes your life. I played A LOT for the first year and I absolutely love the raids in this game but it just takes too much to keep going.
Yeah i recently quit too and i am feeling so much better. It's no burnout or anything. I love the game but i just couldn't handle working and lost arknat the same time. I can't play this game casually. Only hardcore or not at all.
The core of the problem for me is that game is too heavy based on making gold for your vertical progression. If we only had to spent our gold to buy skins, acessories and (if you want) honing materials the game would be in a much more healthier estate. Imo honing should only costs silver and the legendary book engravings should be a horizontal progression that you do it once and never more
Don't get me wrong, I love Asmon and watch him everyday and agree with most of his opinions. But his statement that AGS should just give ur main 6x the rewards and remove the need of alts is the biggest L take I've ever heard in my entire life. That can only come from someone who hasn't given serious thought to his take. When every Andy can get the amount of gold we previously needed to do all Raids on 6x characters before: A. The value of gold would go down B. There would be no way to increase your gold income anymore since alts wouldn't receive gold anymore, all it takes is 4 hours a week and everyone would do it. Hence there is no competition left. Accessory prices would go up by a lot and everyone would suddenly need to pay money whereas before you just played your 6x characters. I don't know, I've been thinking about his take a lot, and the more I think about it, the more convinced I am it's just pure stupidity. Most people even enjoy playing alts (I do at least and all people I play Lost Ark with do too). Because a few people don't enjoy playing alts the game doesn't need to change, there are many other MMOs they can go to and play.
about the world tree leaves and working hard for it before. I recently started a playing on NA East (NA West main). the Hyper express is too good to pass up. Anyways, I farmed the Deep Dive set and You have a Plan card sets along with exp cards at Argon ever day. I'm glad that they are making it easier for new players to get the card sets and card exp. it took me about 2weeks to get them to get the 18 card effect. I could see how it would deter new players.
I played this game on the west hard since day 1 until the vykas release , where i burned out. Quit for a week due to having to learn the raid plus keep doing other weekly activities and stacked dailies , then cameback only to learn vykas and greatly cut other activities until i cleared vykas then gradually started to clear more things. But then i started to want to add more time to my other games and felt like i was playing the game too much...so i quitted right after brel release. I miss my character though so i redownloaded the game and do random content when i feel like it , but wondering how worth it is to elongate my trip when I'm not going to be able to progress without getting again in the wheel 😢
the battle item for hell mode thing is a bigger problem in western too, you are expected to be overgeared and reach that point faster due to quicker releases -> gatekeeping, hell already takes away a lot of time so you generate less -> higher chance to get affected by gatekeeping and then it also costs money, if you have 1 year for the next raid release spending 100 or 200k on hell isn't that big of a deal but if you already barely make every single release with super grind every gold counts i personally stopped hell mode because of 2 reasons: I lose too much income by spending time on grinding for hell deathless, and it costs too much slowing down my account progress further another thing that would be really good to reduce gatekeeping for the wrong reasons: give us a page in the character sheet where we can show our best runs of certain raids, this has positive benefits for multiple reasons: it shows pure performance based results that includes both skill and character strength, it is a fast and clean way to check if a player contributes to their clears people gatekeep you for not understanding your class and/or build (i for example run 1 level 5 cooldown gem still cause i don't need more for it to have it ready at all times in my rotation and i am sure people have declined me for that) also people only look at item level and engravings even tho most other factors are much more important for actual DPS (including skill which you cannot really show at all) the only reason for me to play the game is that the raids are fun, most other stuff about the game just gives me pain and stress
@@izzapro1 the gear matters for the normal raids which costs money and if you play hell it costs you aroun 50k of battle items each week if you put a lot of time into it, which is required for deathless unless you join a reclear party and get a "free carry" that's the whole point, if i invest in hell i will not be ready for the next abyss/raid in time
I value my time and so I've decided against bussing, but I have had 3 instances so far in G3 Kuku where M3 failed, resulting in the rest of my party dying while I'm doing M4, where I then ended up soloing the last 20 bars + bingo. This is why I always offer to do M3 but I don't always get the role, it's moments like these that really encourages people to do bussing or gatekeep content to high ilvls, such as being able to skip M3/M4 entirely.
completely agree with making it easier and faster to catchup for new players (be it collectibles/cards/honing anything) Lost ark i feel like is one of most harsh mmo i ever played for new x returning players. And agree doing 1 chaos and 1 guardian would be awesome change, hopefully will happen one day
Hi Albert, you're one of my favorite LOA's streamers. I loved all you class interviews and actually rolled many of my most liked chars because of them. I viewed WD and DB interviews live and had so much fun interacting with you and chat. LOA is an AMAZING game, it rekindled my love for MMOS, I'm kinda old and started playing online with Dark Age of Camelot and then WoW /GW2. LOA gave me the same feelings I had back then. That's why it felt bad to quit. Yeah I know it's just a game, but I felt bad anyway. LOA's gameplay is one of the best I've ever experienced, classes are fun and unique, but progression is just too repetitive and unnecessarily so. SG decided to make things like this and I cannot understand why. Why double everything for dailies? Maybe this is what made LOA the best MMO in Korea, but I feel like for the majority of western players it's too much. I'm sure there are many in NA/EU who love daily content the way it is, but I've seen so many people quit before me for the very same reason: repetitiveness. I don't want to brag or anything, I'm saying this just to give perspective: I was in one of the best guilds in my server, more often than not we were first for GvE. We would label ourselves as semi-hardcore, but to be honest we had some really no lifer, me included, and now most of them quit. If they had lowered daily and weekly grind maybe six months ago, I think many would have kept playing the game, but now I'm not so sure. Diablo 4 is so close to be released. The sheer amount of people alone that I know will be playing it will probably make me play D4. Anyway, sorry for the long post, I'm old and like all old people I just rant a lot. o/
i got so addicted to this game when it was released for western audience. then most of my rank 1 guild in our server quit due to no content for so long and we had nothing to do. i do not regret quitting this game. just watching someone do dailies just exhaust me and dont even get me started with those obnoxious pheons. honestly there is a great game somewhere in there but i am done with these boring ass chores. i agree with u totally.
Add a skip option, when you complete dailies with your main, you can skip with ur 5 alts and you get 70% of the mats.. if you want more mats do them manually. Same for raids i guess, it will probably stop busses as well.
I agree with your takes! I quit the game after actively playing for a year mostly because the grind is too much and it just gets stale. I thought to myself im grinding to get characters to hard brel but then im gonna be stressed about having to do hard brel on all my characters. Not to mention dailes became too much to do along with all the raids. Also, thought about coming back to the game but got gatekept since I didnt have brel title on a brel horns character. I think the game needs to change to maybe 2 raids per week along with less daily or more interactive daily content like you mentioned. My guildies who are still active dont seem excited about the content and they just play out of sunk cost or not having anything else to play. If I was SG I would not worry about having people log in everyday but make sure they are active on a weekly/monthly basis and focus on new players.
I know a lot of people hate the idea but honestly just make the raids able to be done with any number of people(1-8) instead of requiring it to be a full 8 people to play this is the only issue I see with the game I play deadeye pistoleer 1540 but I get gate kept even tho most my gems are lvl8 I have a 5x3 with no negative engravings but they still gate keep me :( this is the first mmo I've gotten into and it's really fun but being gate kept by people who can only do the raids while being overgeared really makes me want to find a new game to play :(
The fact that legendary gear at +17 takes over 500 gold per tap with 5% succes it’s sad. I’m only 1445 and I feel depressed that I won’t even get close to see a sidereal as a f2p that keeps getting gate kept because I don’t have Los 18+ in Valtan hard and I have to keep buying buses to go up. You should be able to progress quick and unlock all raids to experience the full game, not to farm a week for 5 chances at a successful hone
To be fair, we are kinda lucky in the west that playing just 1 character actively can bring you to the current item level and content and allow you to play all raids. However, this is only the case because you can funnel all the roster bound stuff from events, daily login and weekly guardian / abyss into one character. Playing multiple characters actually does not pay off unless you either sell busses or put them on minimum wage and investment, which leads to 1490+ characters with Argos Accessoires and lvl 4 gems. I have too many characters and I enjoy raiding, but I know for sure that I would quit in 1 month if rest bonus wouldn't exist. If we get extra chaos dungeon entries from login reward, I use them after doing a rested chaos so I get 1 free rested run. I don't want to do unrested chaos dungeons with 6+ characters. Going rested I cut this down to 2 characters work for 4 character reward. Also, I really wish hell mode had free battle items like the prokel trixion fight or an alternative option to get your reward from clearing a hell raid instead of the normal one. Clearing the intented highest difficulty should also yield you the rewards or at least not cost you anything, not punish you for trying to learn a difficult raid.
my biggest problem with the game right now is how long some of the gates are. 20 minutes for one fight is way too long. people in other games would never tolerate that.
you mean games like WoW where progress of new raids takes sometimes weeks to even kill it for first time? are you new to MMORPG genre? Lost ark have little bit longer fights but they dont take even half of time to progress than other MMOs on scene.
@n30n what part exactly is not true? You mean that part where ppl who play wow for living are paying 10k dollars per raid to compete in race to world first and it still takes 10 days to even kill the last boss? Or you mean the part where 99% players will never even touch that boss on hardest difficulty?
@@vengon9655 The difference is you don't have to clear that raid every week on 6 characters or more to maintain progression. The current Legion Raids in Lost Ark are more analogous to Mythic or Mythic+ dungeons in WoW, or your Duty Roulette in FF14, or Fractals in GW2. The traditional raids in WoW/FF14 are more akin to Hell/Inferno in Lost Ark. The way Lost Ark is designed, having a raid that takes 20 minutes that also forces you to have a certain amount of people alive is too long and too punishing. ATK also rightly points out the paradox where raids are able to be bussed with a low man group, but at the same time can fail off of one death. There's a reason why SG purposely made Akkan a much more chill raid and that the vast majority of players in KR don't do 5-6 Brel.
@@whydidimakethis111 ''The difference is you don't have to clear that raid every week on 6 characters or more to maintain progression.'' and this is biggest lie ever shared in lost ark community. in our static theres one guy who is playing 1 character and hes 1573 ilvl right now. never bought anything. so hes almost akkan ready when akkan will be released in maybe half a year. Im someone who is playing 6 characters and I already have 5x3+1 with average 99 quality accesories on 2 characters. playing 6 characters is not to maintain progression. its a way how to be extremely ahead and overgeared.
@@vengon9655 The overall point on raid design still stands. This game's raids aren't anywhere remotely similar to the pinnacle raids of WoW or FF14 in terms of design or difficultly. In those games, clearing those pinnacle raids doesn't wall your progression the way that raids in Lost Ark do. You clear those once and are done. The design of the game accounts for the fact that most players who even attempt them will pull those hundreds if not thousands of times. So using those as a baseline comparison for Lost Ark's raid difficulty is not a fair comparison. As I said, Lost Ark's raids are more akin to the daily/weekly raiding content from other MMOs, and they should be balanced and designed as such. Having 20 minute fights that require a certain amount of people alive is too punishing for regular content. Smilegate basically agreed when they designed Akkan. Hell mode is a different story and is more analogous to the pinnacle raids from other games. If the rewards were scaled more appropriately, maybe there would be a point. But the gold value they give from a single raid is not very high, especially given how inflated the Western economy was. As ATK also points out, Chaos Dungeons daily is a better value source than Legion Raids due to the variety of mats they drop, and Chaos Dungeons require zero effort.
love the suggestion of changing wipe mechanics to buff mechanics thinking about how challenge guardians was done -- was super fun to become a juicer after successfully finishing a mech
First of all, carrying should not even exist in the first place, the fact that it exist is mind-boggling. The purpose of having a gear score should serve to restrict people from entering a raid, period. When I played Maplestory back in the day. "Kerning Party Quest" was for level 21 to level 30. There wasn't a level 100 selling clears for the party quest, why should there be?
Sounds like the Juicers wanna remain the strongest while keeping the weak mfs gatekept. At this rate, all the casuals and new players are gonna drop out and all that’s left are gonna be the juicers, and they’re not gonna have those “customers” paying them. They’re basically killing the game
Ngl, i dropped this game for like a week because of the RNG gambling Stone cutting requiring Pheons to buy, before my friends forced me back in for the brel hard. Have been playing wayy less tho.
Gatekeeping is the most normal thing to do if it's not to an extreme. Me for an example, I just want to see you put some love into your character. I don't really care about your Roster Level or which Class engraving you play or whatever, but put some love into your character man. Most people in this game have like a very nice built main and 5 disgusting alts and get mad when their alts don't get chosen to a party? I've seen people around me with not really well built alts beeing mad after getting rejected to party, doing a party themselves and rejecting people with similar built characters? I think people want the most with putting in as little effort as possible.
or hear me out. not everyone no lifes the game. Not everybody has thousands of hours to "put love into their character man". This is one of the most weak arguments ive ever hear. look bud, at the end of the day you elitist are going to "gatekeep" your game into the grave. This isnt a matter of "if" but "when". The fact that you dont understand the fact that having new players enjoy your game is the most important part of keeping it going is hilarious. By all means bro keep gatekeeping and enjoy a free 80gb of drive space when your game dies
@@eliteghost0001 saying this to someone that is in a guild that is known for it's reputation for learning runs is kinda ironic. But I get your point and it's sad that new players indeed have to experience that. I myself am a Returnee to Lost Ark. I came back to the game when Vykas HM got released. I joined a Guild, learned from them, watched them do the raids for weeks on a discord stream and eventually went raiding with them. And we still help people, especially in Raids. So if you're struggling try to find people that are willing to help.
@@Roboante11 weak cop out. Do you play the game, you are seemingly blind to the actual new player experience. Cool so a good build together for 10k. That would be fantastic if it were true … it’s not btw. For what getting into argos 😂 you will run out of pheons before you even get started on your build. Check back into reality. I quite literally started building and ran out of pheons just trying to get a decent stone. Crazy how out of touch with reality you are. I’m sure 10k gold is nothing to you bud but to new players it is especially when you aren’t even able to spend that 10k gold because of some other dumb currency. Back to the drawing board you go, I eagerly await your rebuttal. Also why are you quoting me on something I never even said. I literally whaled on this game when it first came out bozo.
@@Ves1710 I’m not speaking directly to your character but the way you spoke painted your attitude very clearly and it’s elitism by definition. What you just said and the fact that you help new players are very much opposites. Regardless I’m just tired of people not understand that gatekeeping can and will kill your game.
I agree. Its pretty rough out there, even me with LOS 30 all lvl 7 gems and very high quality on all my characters. I still get gatekept, due to class or engraving build that I choose. -- I think a great solution would be to allow people to make classes freely & also obtain power more quickly even up to lvl 9 gems / tripods and everything to be much more quickly to obtain, more fun activity's to increase the play time since grinding will be less. Imagine if you could make a character super easy & gold much more obtainable and gems easier to get (maybe the lvl 10 ones and ceiling slightly harder to keep some grind available) but at the end of the day, the easier it is to allow entry...will keep more players and retain more players and create more fun & less gatekeeping. -- The main reason = Playing classes & Legion raids is the most fun, trying out new classes (at there highest or near highest potential) is also some of the most fun you can have as a player. Allowing people to obtain the power curve faster & at less cost & more gold readily available through activities would make the game more fun. Being gate kept by the creators, the players & by game power / gold everyday is a problem. People want to have fun. Fun = Raids / New Classes & Playing your characters at there highest potential or near highest without the cost of 1-2 years of there life for a fraction of the power.
Should make chaos/guardian (other dailys?) have a set # of times you can do per day account wide and just let you run them on whichever character(s) you enjoy the most.
I started playing a few weeks ago, I wouldn't be playing still if the story/hyper passes didn't exist. Screw the gear system in this game, just let me poke things with my stick! I'm fine with the big raids being a once a week thing, but needing to play an hour every day (At least) to get the mats you need to progress at anything faster than a snail's pace is just dull. I get gating content behind a grind to ensure that people know how their abilities and the general game systems work, and I even get time-gating that grind so people can't binge through it, but this is just insane. (And not even training you for the actual content in the case of chaos dungeons/many guardian raids) So much effort goes in to just getting to the fun parts of the combat, I just find it to be a slog. I'd love to have a second char at a high enough ilvl to do valtan for a second time, but I just can't be bothered ;-;
1. Smilegate should make a generous offer to ATK and try to hire him to direct/produce/consult on the game.. The game, its community and future would all be 100x better off. He's brilliant, balanced and extraordinarily thoughtful. 2. I endorse his view points enthusiastically 3. The primary issue I have with the game is the manner in which it delivers content. While LA is considered an MMO I believe the most fair compare is and will be to Diablo IV, Path of Exile, and POE 2. I struggle with the amount of time I spend actually playing my characters in LA vs those other games. LA has me doing A TON of stuff that is not playing the game. I spend far too much time in LA trying to hone, upgrade gear, tripods, and what feels like 100 other "systems". Whereas in those other games I am traversing the world, fighting monsters, running maps and getting loot. They end up being a lot more fun because I am playing vs managing. And while I am a huge fan of exploration gameplay, the islands in LA dont scratch that itch. At all. 4. I would come back to LA if I felt there was a game there to play. LA has the best raids of any game I have played, and I have played most all of them. I love the raiding and the content design of the classes, spells and combat is off the charts good. There just isnt enough venues where that is utilized in an effective and fun way. 5. LA feels way more repetitive than these other games..the daily grind is dreadful. My feedback. I have a lot of investment made into LA but dont currently play anymore. Our entire 50 person guild (Legacy Opal) quit. Sad....the things above would bring some back. Hope they listen
I enjoy playing in lost ark. I don’t have a lot of time for grinding hardcore raids every day or weekend. But I still do chaos with 9 characters. My progress may be slow ,but I believe I can make it eventually. Recently I feel the brelshaza 5-6 (normal/hard) is still too difficult for me to do. I’m 1560 ,over geared for normal Brel. I still cannot clear the 5-6. There’s not a lot of people are willing to teach or spend time. 😢I’m old guy . I started with my friends . Now they all quit and haven’t log in for two months + . We never finish Brel 5-6 together! That’s my sad story.
I mean I tried to do Brel 5-6 several times, but I cannot do like other players 6-12hours+ a day to make it pass. I know there’s few hardcore players do 6 x Hard Brel 50 hrs + per week. So they can pass it and get the rewards
ATK, you are right. During the loa-on event, Korean players went into the ENG Sub stream and made fun of us because we wanted reduced dailies. One mentioned that "they used to have three CDs," so we should "be happy with the changes."
I'm stuck in the situation where I want to play but dont have a consistent group to play with, so my characters sit there and I dont do anything at this point
I want them to make when player reach certain characters count player can just do dailies once per character but still get the usual 2x rewards. So player with less characters will stil do 2x. I like all my characters I don't want them to be abandoned and with all that cool upcoming class and me getting less time. The chance are getting bigger and bigger, I'm afraid now.
As a somewhat small spender with 6 characters that quit recently, I feel bad for the friends who are passionate about the game and still playing. Most of our static quit at the same time too and as much as i loved playing, I can't be spending what was like 30-40 hours a week on grinding. Going back to easier MMO's like Destiny 2 and Warframe is night and day on how little investment you need for them. If Lost Ark was more casual friendly, it would've been so much more popular but as it stands, i really don't feel like the community will grow.
well comparing warframe where theres literally 0 endgame content if you dont count endless grind for frames to gear based MMORPG is kinda weird. MMORPG games were always made to be timesink and rewarding for people who put time into it. I played warframe for 800 hours, got all weapons, all frames and most maxed important mods and left the game because theres just nothing to do.
I quit back in december because I don't want to play 6+ characters a week for the rest of my life. Let me play one character for an hour or two a day and be free.
I started the game originally on launch and played for 2 months before quitting as i was playing alone mainly. When Artist released i gave it a go again and i'm currently at ilvl 1477.50 and did replay the story again to get used to LA once more. Little did i know, i had to get relic gear to even have a slight chance of finding a learning party for valtan and vykas. And i still havent been able to find a learning party. "Roster level to low, not lvl 2 relic gear, not lvl 30 awakening, only lvl 5 gems" there are plenty of stuff i get hit with as excuses. In easy words, if you want the game to endure, make the endgame more accessible to new players. The only endgame a newb like myself can enjoy is busses. Your video was great. I'll go back to party finder tonight and slam my head against my desk 🫠
I don't get the gear race, once you have the highest then what do you do? Do you finish daily faster perhaps? Get rich and start leveling up all characters? But same cycle though. Having Community I can understand. The best and most rewarding game for me is street of rage 4 or nine parchment simply because family bonding with my wife and daughter. spending quality time together is priceless. The sense of fullfillment is something that i cant describe. I feel we climb mountain together. We've probably beat it 100s of times in normal mode by now and my wife still only know 2 buttons to press and me and my kid caries her on some levels but its fun actually since a bit more challenging for us. When a game is too hard, my wife can't play then me and my daughter feel the emptiness. I prefer game with different mode of difficulty to be honest so that my wife can play even there is not much of a reward because Rewards are subjective in my opinion.
![[Lost Ark] You will literally go bald if you play this class... Emperor Arcana guide](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dpM-oFiTLuY/mqdefault.jpg)
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Hey Albert, just wanna let you know we're proud of you for releasing this video and not afraid of breaking the destructive cycle of the korean cult like community. Keep it up ❤
massive respect for this opinion for real
The little cartoons where he says one thing and a bs answer from the community is so spot on and ppl defend these with the WORST answers…
What else can I say. Thank you Mr ATK for also recognizing and raising your voice with us about all the problems the game has and we been complaining for so long and not putting SG on a pedestal
Amazing video, thank you for sharing a new perspective that a lot of western players don't have on why there is pushback to changes in KR. I've never shared the common opinion that KR players are magically in love with a mindless grind for some reason, and this really sheds some lights on reasoning behind that perception. I hope to see good changes come to Lost Ark in the future, and if they don't, well, it's not like I've never seen this exact thing happen many times in the past.
I couldn't put my finger on it before either but I was also dubious of that notion! Glad to get some clarity! Also love your content laufie
People always say it is sg fault but never give a good reason why ONLY ags version has these issues. Cope. Game will be dead
This is a great video and sums up exactly how I've been feeling as a returning and new player.
Gatekeeping, item restrictions, horizontal content, the list goes on. It feels overwhelming that I can't do anything else. It leads to burnout and exhaustion of the game.
I could deal with alot of the stuff but the gatekeepers did it for me. Bust my ass for weeks in them learning parties and watching your guides over and over to make sure I don't fk up just to get gatekept cause i prefer to use 1 character so my roster lvl is low. I even quizzed once that's when I really knew I was done
I agree exactly with Asmon's take on Valtan being the best designed raid, one mistake on hard would kill you but wouldn't wipe the raid. Normal Valtan is the most friendly legion raid for new players.
With Vykas, the gatekeeping gets pretty bad with difficult group wiping mechs turning lobbies into exp only parties with high engraving/gems/cards.
But Clown & Brelshaza knocks it out of the park with huge ilvl requirement which the honing system makes worse by gatekeeping most players out of learning raids.
Then these frustrated players don't get to experience the new content while the Day 1 players or Whales can. After that they quit the game
Watched the whole 50mins of asmon's pov, he can't be any more true, especially the "exhaustion of content" part. I can also understand the korean community's pov with the "cheap rat" bit, but if smilegate won't make a move, they'll really run out of time with players getting burned out like coal to a train. Every player has seen/read/understand this quote -
"It's not a game, it's a job."
I hope the devs would actually do something big, Lost Ark is so fun when you don't consider it a chore.
Really great constructive criticism. I also really appreciate that you offer solutions to the problems, while bringing them up.
Personally, as much as I've enjoyed the game in the past, it's been really difficult to find enjoyment in it nowadays.
I switched regions, because the region I started in just didn't have enough players to make certain content enjoyable (e.g. co-ops). Since then I've been playing catch up. Something that in itself wasn't an issue for me, but when I was like 2 weeks "late" for Vykas, and made the mistake of learning it HM, skipping NM, it was an absolutely horrible experience. I'm a slow learner, and while everyone was trying to be nice, it was absolutely not enjoyable for me to learn with players so much more experienced than me. And I've had the nicest groups of super talented whales trying to help me; a privilege that not everyone has. It was such a stressful experience, that I've basically given up on trying to catch up and learning new raids after that. The anxiety I experience is just not worth it.
Any discord learning groups you find basically fill up instantly, making it super difficult for a lot of players, who would really like to learn to do so.
Really makes me sad, that there is so much potential interest, but so little the developers do to provide an incentive for more experienced players to take an interest in integrating newer ones into the community.
One time when the game was new I was complaining about the fact that rest was poorly implemented because it forces daily activity to be completely effective. Then some were like "then what would be the point of doing it daily" and that's when I realized these people don't play games for fun.
Welcome to MMO's where Optimisation always > Fun
One year ago we used to say "corpa" as a joke. It seems like not everybody got the memo..
I still do shit rested, don't give a shit about effectiveness. Because if i actually do everything everyday, i just burn out much more quickly and quit. So i play less in order to play for longer.
I really love Hanumatan for its balance. You get rewarded for consistently attacking him with buffs that you lose upon being hit while his main mechanics with the armor can lead to punishing (but not unfair) attacks if not resolved !
He does have bullshit, like how too much damage causes him to skip destruction checks and thus he starts using ice and fire moves and does the aoe clap attack that is almost an one shot. And with players getting stronger and stronger, the chance of this happening increases more and more.
@@okagron lets make trixion dummy guardian raid... kill him only once per day in less then 1 min for 500 leapstones... best guardian for 99% people I bet KEKW
@@okagron That what actually makes it interesting for support, even if it may be sometimes a little hard to recognize in time (ilvl isn't everything).
Support, in such fast party, should keep their awakening to help with these mechanic if you skipped destruction check.
Boss also offers the destruction after wards so it's really just the swing in most cases and they can be played.
In my opinion it actually makes the boss interesting even if you over level him, which wasn't the case for previous.
Turtle being just more and more annoying (unless you had super buster party who managed to kill it before either escape).
I've quit after doing Brelshaza Normal G6 on 6 characters every week, on top of the other two legion raids, on top of doing the Caligalos Guardian Raid, on top of weeklies, and cubes, and boss rushes and unas and reputation and chaos. It piled up quickly and the game demanded me to be online everyday for HOURS
So I started letting Guardian Raids going to rest... then I started to not do my una weeklies, then I started to slowly not finish all legion raids every week, forgetting to do them on one some alts, then I started to let Chaos build rest, and eventually I took a break. New games came out, started playing those and "resting my homework" turned out into a 2 month break from Lost Ark.
I logged in to check the new update, and the 1535 I have on my characters is now basically the average, everyone in my friend list is Brel Hard ready, they are already wearing ancient armor pieces or ancient jewelry. I have to spend money or play catch up for a few weeks or months, constantly grinding again, only to start Brel Hard and be gatekept because I wasn't there to do it day 1.
The game sucks when it comes to returning or new players, so I've quit for good, and the sad reality is that the players who are grinding and playing every day on Steam, are the same old players from the first few months of the game. When those players hit the same roadblock as me, and take a break that's too long, and break the FOMO... it's over.
No one I know that quit, has managed to return, simply because the game doesn't work like that. The vertical progression prevents you from just jumping in and trying new content, so you're forced to play catch-up to the rest, only to be denied entry when you reach the latest content because you weren't there from the start.
Meanwhile, I booted up ESO for the first time in two years, same level and CP, same gear and same character, even the same "old" meta build. I posted a message in the global chat, looking for a learning party for the latest added dungeon in the new expansion, and jumped right in. So long Lost Ark, and thanks for all the dailies!
I think Lost Ark West is gonna end up being a different game from Lost Ark Kr because of how much we are asking for changes and AGs and SG look surprisingly receptive.
Because there is no limit to how many accounts you can have on west. If the game did cost lets say the same amount as bronze founder pack we would not see the bot apocalypse on a scale it happened.
"surprisingly receptive" how deluded are you? If what we got is surprisingly receptive why did a year pass with only bad things happening and we got no change yet, just empty words, when the servers are almost empty.
@@AlexanderBC42 This comment made me laugh and cry at the same time, thanks for it you troll
@@AlexanderBC42 Well hello ! Some games never listen to anything the community says. Especially when it's a Korean game. We are right now getting changes to the game that aren't even live on Kr and might never reach them. I'm not saying this is a lot by any mean, but it's something at least, some games get less than that
@@Abyzdecannes doesn't matter really, old players have no way of catching up + all the gatekeeping on NERFED raids...
Good points all around. I love this game and have cheerfully accepted the frustrations along with the enjoyment. I look forward to the ongoing conversations that will improve the game.
Legion Raid difficulty should be around Valtan Hard Gate 2, every single mistake you do can kill you but it wont whipe the raid.
Apparently the devs disagree given that they made Clown purposely much harder because they thought Valtan and Vykas were too easy.
And really, my problem is not even the difficulty. Brel 1 to 4 are reasonable in terms of time spent, but Brel 5 and 6 are just exhausting. After just doing one Brel 5 and 6 in a week, i don't even bother with other characters because i'm just tired. They need to make Brel 5 and 6 shorter and add a cutscene skip.
I’m a new player. My level is in the 30’s and I’m enjoying the story. Im using map genie to get all the things I can in each zone I enter. I see videos about what awaits me after hitting 50 is destroying my hopes for fun later. Im looking forward to feeding my completionist tendencies but I’m very nervous I’ll not be about to do anything due to gatekeepers. It might honestly kill the game for me but I hope not. Thanks for the vid.
I have fun with lost ark, but I’m terrified about joining any raid at all from fear of failing mechanics.
Got a good point there buddy!
you and me both, that anxiety kicks in. Learning parties would be great but there are not many as most have pushed past the content.
If korea afraid of changes then dont change the korean version just the na/eu, what smilegate need to do:
1) mentor system to help new player
2) pheon remove on stone and tripod
3) decrease chaos dungeon runs but have the same amount of loot
4) more viable engraving for dps and support, engraving right now its too linear with no variety of build.
5) life energy like excavation shouldn't be 1st come 1st serve everyone should be able to gather at the same time this will reduce the price and lowering the price of honing oreha in market which is actually healthy for the game economy.
6) open the game for asia and oceanic player to join, we know some of them use vpn to bypass the region lock but instead of region locking let them join, there's already a community consist of them just make the game accessible world wide
7) skin and cosmetic, if korea can have a contest for cosmetics why can't we have it too?
8) every class should be viable not one class weak and the other class engraving is gigachad, the difference from 1 class engraving is insane, its like pistoleer and enhanced weapon pistoleer is so weak its a joke, taijitsu against shock night and day difference on end game raid the list goes on, don't make the game too linear what we want is variety
9) food buff requirement are too much, people who uses cursed doll have a negative healing most of them are forced to used masterwork food buff just to remove the negative effect, the problem is to make one takes time and to purchase it is costly, reduce the amount to craft this food buff so the food buff won't be expensive and accessible by new player who want to use cursed doll.
P.S, feel free to copy and continue with your opinion and suggestion.
Point 9 is just plain stupid xD Every other point is spot on especially build variety
@@CostelloDamian do you even know what an argument is? I even wrote there (opinion and suggestion) learn to read please
@@rushdrift typical toxic random internet dude missing the point by a mile getting into semantics xD Let me edit the reply specially for you. Also a bit of definition here for you: ARGUMENT - "a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory"
@@CostelloDamian huh?
Gimmick is a common theme for MMO raids, but I dont like hard gimmicks that have nothing to do with combat. I dont want to do 3 jumping jacks and 2 push ups then resume a fight. But I also grew up with Monster Hunter so that might be why I dont like gimmicks.
Man, it was depressing to quit LA. I didn't want to, because reaper was probably the most fun class I've ever played in an mmo, quite honestly. And I endured all the ridiculous class gatekeeping, all the people saying my class was trash, and berating me for the very few times I made a mistake, even though I rarely made mistakes *on the raids I learned*. And the daily stuff, while annoying, was bearable. I don't mind grind, one of my favorites games is RO.
But after brel release, and after fighting against and training on prokel for a long ass time (because I thought he was super fun) and nailing the prokel solo on ilvl without using all my pots, I'd go and apply to a simple G1-2 and no one would take me because I didn't want to sneak into reclear parties, and at that point prog parties were just gone. Gear was all good, really good even, but a 110 roster reaper was like a player repellant. Make your own parties, no one joins, try to setup a learning party, no one joins, just like you say in the video. Apply, and either get ghosted or rejected.
When I realized I was spending more time staring at the party finder and begging people to let me join stuff instead of playing, I decided to just stop. Really sucks. I don't like having to fight people and compete with people just to play *with* people in freaking farm content.
I actually love the idea you mentioned of something like For raids that give resources required to progress: remove wipes, make it a tight DPS check. Clearing the mechs gives you a buff that makes the DPS checks irrelevant (could be a stacking buff for each mech, or just 1 strong buff for X amount of time that gets reset upon clearing the next mech), but failing all mechs means that you have a tight DPS check. It still encourages you to get the mechs done, but you're able to clear the raid even if you fail (or at least get more prog in since if you can't clear certain mechs you can get more experience with the fight anyway instead of doing the same parts over and over and not getting to try later parts). You could also do something like make these changes to Normal mode and keep Hard Mode with wipes (for raids that give the same progression resources such as Valtan/Vykas/Akkan) and have them in both modes for raids that give different resources based on difficulty (Brel Normal vs Hard).
Best dual perspective content by far. Would've love to hear more ideas and solutions though. There are so many more things to be discussed from all perspectives. Great vid ATK
I played LA from western release for about 4 months. I joined a very nice guild and we all progressed together the first weeks.
We were hyped, when Argos and Valtan released and had so much fun progressing and beating those together as a guild.
But then it became quickly apparent to a large chunk of players in the guild, that there is no point in doing a full guild run (outside of fun), but rather split up in teams of 2-3 people and create busses to get more gold to progress their characters. The guild fell apart in the following weeks and I lost my enjoyment of playing LA.
> And this is the crucial neckbreak with a progression system tied to ingame currency. Lost Ark is an MMO, where every endgame progression system is actually anti-social by nature.
If you compare to "classic" MMO like World of Warcraft, yes, you can also boost people there for some kind of pay, but in essence, I can't really buy power with wow gold, so the boosting community has their own niche, disconnected from the "normal" player. In Lost Ark your character progression is directly tied to your ability to carry other people for payment and due to lockout, you can't play the endgame with your guild and friends without stunting your character's growth.
For me, personally, to wanting to get back into LA, they need to remove bus meta completely.
My idea to accomplish this? Give groups consisting of members of one guild significantly more rewards. This will encourage people to get together and actually socialize to beat content and be rewarded for it.
sure... but then if you're not in a guild that runs together you're not getting the max rewards? idk seems kinda bad for new players. but it could change the community for the better and be willing to help mokokos. who knows.
@@kfactor99 I mean, yea, it surely isn't as easy like that. all I am saying, endgame content needs to have incentive and no downside for playing with your friends and your guildmates.
@@excaligaming2435 It sucked when there was 5 of you and 1 couldnt run... 😥
The problem this game has, is that you have to do too much of the boring stuff and too little of the fun stuff.
They need to doo the daily content fun, legion raids must be a extra content not the core of game. And the rewards are joke we get new Guardian and what are the rewards the same mats but more wow amazing 🤣 devs dont even made new raid for ancient gear just the same brell hard amazing copium. Guardians and chaos can be fun make it longer with 2 stages add somethin new too it some fun mech and 1 per day. Focus on something new not just the same shit over and over again.
@@FAILLTheRevolution This is painful to read. It would probably be better to post in your language and let people translate it.
@@Osprey1994 lmao
Thats most mmos/arpgs at this point. The golden age of online gaming is over my friend. Not worth it anymore
@@FAILLTheRevolution also the opposite of what people want. Chaos and guardian should be double rewards for 1 run. No doing it twice each.
Playing 6 chars is a 2nd job. It's why I quit.
I played clown for two weeks before quitting the game entirely. The reason being that the raids were too time-consuming to clear, despite having six characters with my main at 1520 and all alts at 1485+. I had invested over $7000 in total and spent an average of 10+ hours every day playing. It wasn't until clown I realized how much this game had taken over my life. The weekly raids alone were too demanding, not to mention the daily. Although it was enjoyable, it shouldn't have consumed so much of my time considering the amount of money I put into it. One can only imagine how much others would have to grind if they didn't spend as much.
Just combine chaos and guardian and make it like bridge or something.And make it 1x instead of 2x.
Sometimes I wish Lost Ark felt more like a MMO. If you think about it, all you're really doing is instanced encounters, there is no exploring, no interacting with other players or environments. I kinda miss that feel of playing MMO that wow or black desert or ff gives you with all the playing music, travelling etc. Oh right, ppl will say "then go play that game" haha. Thanks for the video ATK
I agree that chaos/guardians should be 1, not 2. But I also think the "6 character limit" shouldn't be limited to 6 characters, just 6 instances.. so if you're really enjoying playing your Destroyer alt one day and want to KEEP playing it, you can do ALL 6 runs on it (and then you can't on any other character.)
I couldn't handle the daily grind on 6 characters anymore. Loved the game for about a year, but it started feeling like work, i had no fun and it took hours out of my days. Also spent an unfortunate amount of money on it. Couldn't imagine playing it for free, it would require even more time invested. I feel free now that i'm done with it.
same. too many hours for 0.01% increases. Not worth it.
Smilegate needs to make sure that players can also create their own gears from guardian raids,abyssal dungeon or chaos dungeon not only from legion raid, because not everyone has time to learn the mechanics and play so much in order to make progress, otherwise players can no longer progress in this game and will stop to play.
The "truth" about Lost Ark? It's a job, not a game. Unless you're a full-time streamer or unemployed it's not worth playing.
very agree with you bro.
I'm currently playing Final Fantasy XIV and my last MMO before that was Lost Ark. The difference between the two is like night and day.
I loved Lost Ark at launch. Before all the bots and before the endgame. The world felt alive and people interacted with one another and worked together. Then after a lengthy journey, I finally hit Punika and T3. And after that, well, it felt like I was playing a completely different game to say the least. Especially after Argos and soon Legion Raids came out. Doing dailies/weeklies to progress and the only way to get better gear being to do the raid content with other people. People who leave after one wipe. People who never say hi or talk unless it's to berate someone for messing up. And so on.
There are no alternative ways to progress like crafting gear, running different kinds of content, stuff we did before, or anything. There's also pretty much almost no reason to go back to previous zones too so the world felt pretty dead, especially with all the bots running around.
The obsession with optimization and progression is extremely prevalent in this game IMO. It's like there's nothing else that matters. Whether it's by the design of the devs or the actions/mindset of the community itself, I can't really say nor do I really care. All I can say is I feel it's a problem that's killing the game and it needs to be fixed. The average MMO player, the vast majority, tends to be the solo casual PvE player. Alienate that portion and there won't be that many people playing. Which is pretty much what happened I would say and why it feels like the game has been declining.
I myself quit because I'm certainly not a hardcore player nor do I want to be. I play games for fun. To blow off steam. Have cool adventures. Chat with nice people. Be able to do my own thing. I don't play to do "homework". As it stands now, Lost Ark is most certainly not the game for me and I don't see myself playing a Korean game again tbh.
thank you for the insight and commentary: the chaos dungeon monday, guardian raid tuesday solution is actually brilliant i never thought of that
Nice video ATK and it's good a big LA influencer gives his thoughts to improve the game
And i had some ideas from streamers like you and opinions about the game kind of like a inspiration
Those like Add a repetition of all or most of the dungeons or remastered them but for tier 3 mode, making it longer something like wow I mean reward you with pieces of t3, titles, skins, like a glow or aura on your armor or just gold kinda of rng stuff but one of those will be good right? because I will tell you something very casual players even in Korea they don't even bother to do brelz for the same reason that is very hardcore coop thing like asmong was saying.
The problem about being a group 4 man or even a 8 man group in dungeons are not like that fun because the style of the game being arpg is not as immersive like a third person mmo plus it will feel to "easy" they can add like some different camera angles changes like in brelz or the abyss dungeon water boss in some parts to get that spice into the gameplay
The solution that i thought about is like splitting the group with different path, example:
if its a 8 men party it would be 4 paths, each path only 2 players can go and will have like a "puzzle" zones then a miniboss room or something like that to open the last gate to fight the end boss of that dungeon.
The mini boss won't be like crazy difficult just make them fun not to easy but also not insanely tanky because if 1sup goes with 1dps they will take a bit more longer to kill. Other stuff will be balancing you character to not being so OP or to WEAK for the run and also preventing keep gating OR just get away the party finder just choose your role dps or supp it can be only dps in a party no problem only you will consume more potions BUT can't have more than one SUP in each party because for obvious reasons.
They can add more pets and mounts obtainable in game like doing certain stuff (no rapport or reputation) by exploring, doing some hidden quests in islands etc. If they have problems to making quest for lack of personal or time the community can help kinda of "i did this story and i think it will fit for a quest in lost ark" and in the quest will bring the "author" just for more horizontal stuff.
Make skins out of guardians like in MH
Getting them ingame by SOLO killing the guardian but like a challenge version for the lower tier guardians add them new attacks plus the game will balance you like in pvp, choose your stats and engravings like in hell mode but with pvp scaling (why? because in pvp bards and pala have good dmg and will be able to kill the guardian before the times end) or maybe balancing you depending on your class AND you only need to kill it ONCE or if it's seems to easy maybe 6 times (maybe it's allot right?) if you want the full set skin head, gauntlets, armor, lower body and weapon the ones you want
Making combinations of different guardians sets like in MH something like that to be "unique" and also flex that you solo that guardian.
In pvp well just give good rewards to do pvp content like mats and that kind of stuff WHEN FINISHING not trading with the pvp merchant (because in lot of mmo, pvp is important to maintain their player base active like in wow).
I have repeatedly given feedback to amazon every time they do a questionare about the game (I also think the cumulative effort of both amazon doing them and the community engaging with them, joined with people leaving the game, being the principal motive of AGS speaking up about lost ark in the west).
I always mention that dailies should be 1 per day instead of 2, but one of the most important things is about bussing, because going afk for 30 minutes in multiple characters every week makes players feel like they are losing agency, you could add a toggle for squads above a certain ilvl to instead of playing as 8 people they play as 4, 3, 2 or 1, granting for example 1.5x, 2x, 3x and 4x gold reward respectively.
Doing that while adding an easy difficulty that gives half the value (although the same materials same valtan bones, vykas wings, kakul and brel mats, as people get gatekeept at ilvl of content because they dont have them).
I think there is so much room that AGS could improve, one of the worse things about this game is that I feel like I accomplish the same in 2 hours of play daily than 8 hours of play daily. You can min max a lot of in-game things like trade skills but the sad thing is that you for example get more value from crafting 24/7 than using tradeskills 24/7, with the later one taking a lot more effort. I can say the same about a lot of things in this game. Crafting, Una's and chaos are all you need to do in this game, which takes roughly 20 minutes per character, anything further than that is low effiency content in my opinion.
One more giant thing is that every single horizontal content is gated by time which feels beyond bad, with load times being 10 minutes, having to be somewhere at a certain time feels pointless. They should open up a lot of stuff more.
I thought they would strife towards that when they announced all the minigames like the moba that they announced, even the jurassic park thing was fun, the thing that scares me is that it looks like every single thing will be time gated.
I dont understand why so much timegate, it is not that hard to queue for 16 people in a server with 20k+ players, seasonal events (racing, mini-fights,etc...), chaos gates, even world bosses could continiously roam like they did in the story. Recently completed tome in so many areas, I realized one thing, worldbosses that arent time gated are cool as fuck, I realized the same while beating the story for the first time, it is just cool.
The game is trying to actively make itself a task-game, a work-like game, devoided of fun, played by routine instead of fun.
Been jumping through different mmos, arpgs, games in general since quitting lost ark, still havent found something where I had more fun than when I was playing lost ark, a game that didnt make itself too difficult but that you still needed to learn the game to confidently beat stuff, it even has great progression (if you dont mention the hours). The game really is fun, I just dont know why they are so afraid to tone down their game, poeple arent going to stop buying gold or skins by making their life easier, in any case they might stop quitting.
don't play lost ark anymore but this video is so true grinded the game so hard back then only to get stuck at the lobby finder and dailies take up way too much time and induces burn out as well. I hope SG and AGS will be able to resolve the many issues lost ark has and I hope to come back to the game in the future. thank you for the video mr atk !
Great vid, very interesting to hear you cover the usual arguments and how things are the same/worse in Korea.
Personally I think the worst problem is, noone has time to have fun. It is extremely rare, where you are done doing everything you can to progress your character and still have energy to do anything for fun. Like fck id love to do hell mode valtan, but 1. i have no time and 2. i already need to do valtan 6 times every week.
This is an issue. I understand the need of building your char but after that...why? Just why cant you not do all possible weeklies and instead try going down that helltan you enjoy despite being hard? Why not for once prioritize the eventual static prog run over your 30 weekly dungeons? To me it seems you decide to not have fun but keep grinding weeklies even when you kinda finished your main + at least 1 alt.
@@namaerro6738 because after you are done with chores for the day, either you are already sick of LA and dont want to play mroe for the day and you just have no energy, or you just simply dont have enough time left to start helltan.
this is 100% the state of the game, everyone is running for dear life to catch that weekly gold, nobody has time for anyone, quick quick get the most geared people go next raid next raid next raid. it sucks that there is nothing else to do beside run after gold in a lot of lost ark content once you reach end game and have done everything to get most of the skill points. I used to ditch my daily for hell and it was the most fun I have had in a while, sadly hell is mostly dead because of the consumables and time sink. no one wants to play something with no rewards specially in lost ark, oh and lets not forget the carries that will pilot it for you
I started almost 2 weeks ago, and am now at 1398 with no more honing mats to hit the 1400 milestone for more honing rewards. Now i'm just patiently waiting for the moment i finally hit 1400 to then patiently wait for the next milestone again. To be patient was the most common advice I got for playing this game, which unironically seems to be the only thing i can do which is patiently "wait" because finding any group willing to take me for any of my current level content seems impossible.
best advice I can give you: join a guild. there a people that a willing to help if you communicate with them.
@n30n I swear I've seen oreha hard somewhere but I can't find it anywhere now that I'm looking at it 😭and what are these repeatablr dungeons?
I would highly recommend joining a guild.
If you are really against it, I would check all the buttons and widgets and see where they lead you. Max roll is a decent resource for guides, and the Discord and Reddit are useful for interacting with the community in a more limited sense.
1:57 I have 5x3, epic engravings, correct stats, with a 6/6 stone with 1415 with 1370 and 1415 assessorites with level 2-5 gems, 10/30 light card, rank 3-5 tri pod, 1000 hours, spend 0 dollars on the game. However, before I even thought about applying or creating a party to try and fight Vultan, I had no gold already lost the desire to play. This was because of a mix of carries and normal runs of Argos as well as trying to do my guardian riads, chaos dungeons, una's task daily and weeklies on 4 characters, island souls, and other tokens to attempt to increase power. 623 hours the first time, came back 6 months later with the last 400 hours for the lost ark new year's event. I never complained on the forums because I assumed it would only lead to "get good".
I have over 20 games played on mmo's and this is the one with a moderate-high amount of play time, and a mix of the community, guild, streamers (like Rich and Stoopz) and random people in the game helped in making me not happy with my time. I did not enjoy my stay, but I am glad to hear ATK enjoys his time.
I'm playing the game since it was released in the west(quit the game in July, started playing again in August.) . I'm a f2p, my main is 1490 since like a few weeks. Yes, I could have a higher gear level by now, but I was/am so scared of going into legion raids. When I hit 1415, it was a month after that, when I did my first ever Valtan raid and it wasn't me who did it, it was a bus. I didn't buy that bus because of gate keeping, but because I knew that no one would be mad at me for failing a mechanic. I love this game. I don't want to quit. The gameplay, islands, the different continents, the story, playing the game with that one friend I have. I need to do Brelshaza now to craft the new gear, but it's really hard to find a party that is willing to accept you. Since I'm a f2p, I don't have the best gunslinger in the game, but definitely good enough for playing a goddamn legion raid. It would be very helpful if the developers think of another way to get the Brelshaza drops... Or legion raid drops in general.
Also guardian raids, we currently have 24 different guardian raids in the game, but we do the same one every day. Why play only one when we have 24 different ones? Ppl get sick of doing always the same stuff, maybe change it up a bit. Make the guardians random, change them everyday.
(English is not my first language, sorry if I made some mistakes)
Sometimes I miss this game. And people I have met. And the great content creators I still follow. Don't think I'll come back after probably 3k hours played...
it only took me a year to realize "lost ark is an mmo that respects your time" was a complete lie.
@@kfactor99 MMO will never respect your time. MMORPG games are made to be timesink since early times of lineage, wow and runescape.
@@vengon9655 ffxiv does respect your time too bad the gameplay is beyond boring.
@@auditionko I mean ye. We can tell guild wars 2 respects your time as well but what's the point of MMORPG when gear doesn't matter at all and ppl can obtain same gear from professions as from raids. I would never play such thing. I want to feel rewarded for my time.
@@vengon9655 I think Runescape respects your time. You can do everything alone in Runescape, including grinding, raids, and more. If you do need to do something in a party, it's most likely to be a minigame, and if you die, it doesn't affect other players
i think the problem here beside of community arguments is think why this game is for, its a alt game with fun pve or its a fun game pve playing with only 1 character where alts is only need if you enjoy play with them and not only for materials that to be honest, its feel like the devs want to do something but someone have a diferent idea and they develop both ideas without know the other project in the end have a multi project that have no direction with the original game idea
I used to play diffrent korean MMORPG (extremly action based) called Dragon nest. Just so people were aware, this is very hard MMORPG at highest level of play, raids like red dragon nest hardcore had like single clears on entire server and that was all people could do, Sea dragon nest hardcore on 40 level cap was only cleared by one party in entire world, and in fact Korea didn't manage to do it on own server, but Europe. A lot of issues you talk about were heavy eliminated in Dragon nest in few diffrent ways:
- there is big difficulty gap between hardest content and normal content. No one was gatekeeping there anyone normal nests etc. only for dragon raids that were exceptionally difficult and a little (but much less, for later content 6 man raids). Thing is you never needed itemization from those dragon raids so most people simply didn't. Lost ark forces us to clear content even if it might be too difficult for players
- "virgin" bonus - if someone is new and didn't clear raid before, that guy grants bonus loot to everyone on 1st clear. It wasn't huge bonus but noticable one and it incentivized to take fresh mokokos into raid and make them learn nest/raids etc.
- party buffs/debuffs on boss were not limited to party but to raid (8 man). So for example party 1 sorceress dmg amp would increase dmg of people from party 2 as well. This meant you could increase a bit more hp of boss and therefor make it harder for bussers, but also make it easier for proper 8 man party. This of course in context of LA would have to not apply to supports buffs, but i think debuffs on bosses could benefit from sharing between parties.
- none of boss mecahnics were requiring insane number of people. Pretty much every single dragon raids mechanic to be succesful never required more then 4 people (and there are 8 people), even in hardcore raids. So you didn't have those situations like from g5 brel - one person dies and restart. And now another person dies and restart. What you felt is significant dmg drop on boss from lacking one person, but content wasn't made in way you needed all time 8 man to clear stuff even dmg wise.
For me good idea would be to remove sidereals and make mechanics utilizing sidereals easier. For example Valtan G1 orb mechanic - give more time for people to do stagger but remove Wei. So now people can do slowly and properly the mechanic without stressing too much to do things fast, but you cannot bus/cheese stuff with Wei.
I was burned out around valtan release for like 2 weeks, then 1,5 months respectively. I returned just before vykas release, and after a year, I got burned out again for 2 weeks. I was already way behind, and now I am even more behind.
Back then the reason for me burning out was grinding the same thing, and not getting anywhere, while people already have 6 alts at 1460, while i was just barely doing valtan hard on my main. Now I'm burned out cause I can't be bothered to prog 6 hours a day to maybe clear brel hard g2, cause people keep failing. I decided to spend my time better. I came back for slayer, lot of good updates came, I'm excited, hopefully things work out, and I could still spend my time elsewhere and complete what I wanted in lost ark.
it feels like working at this point - since the gold got nerfed for argos, valtan nm and vykas nm, it doesnt feel worth walking these, even tho you still get gold with some characters.. ive been grinding for my main cause building up a character eats so much gold that it takes months to push a character with 4-5 engravings, especially if its a mage class or a new released one
i get gate kept on argos due to roster level being to low, and due to ilevel being not high enough, i am forced to buy busses to get the materials to get relic gear but not enough gold to hone my gear. I would now argue that it takes me longer to get relic gear as a "solo" player than what it did when valtan/vykas raid first came out for everyone else.
I feel forced to make more characters in T3 so i can get enough mats to hone next month due to not having enough gold.
It feels im always playing catchup and the moment i hit 1590 new content is out and i still have to pay for busses since i will still have to low gear.
i cant buy books to get engravings since i dont have enough money. its hard for me to do card runs since i dont have enough ilevel.
I can keep this going, i love lost ark and i have playd it for the last 2 months. it took me little to no time getting to T3 but now i have been stuck at 1455 for over a month and i will probably be stuck for a couple months more. Only way i can make gold 20k every 8 days is fishing. but 20k is not enough when valtan costs 1800k gold (bus) vykas 2400-2800k (gold). and because of using alot of gold on bussing i dont have enough gold to buy the extra chest in the raid to get more mats for relic gear.
Net positive on both raids gives me 1k gold (ish) on 1 character. and i only have 1 character in 1415+.
I will soon have 2 characters in 1415.
If smileazon makes it so that argos valtan and vykas did not have a full raid wipe mechanic as a new player we would get up to 1490, still make gold and do card runs without needing a bus.
Keep brelshaza as is with the vibe mechanics and make that the "hardcore" content
OR any normal mode on argos valtan vykas take away wipe mechanic, and keep them on hard, while doing that make argos hard mode for the wipe mechanic.
by doing this this will not hinder the hardcore players to enjoy their hard game, and will take away the need for bussing at least for normal and casuals can still enjoy the game up until 1490 before deciding to join the "hardcore" players.
I bet alot of people reading my message will say that im a casual player or stupid for having these thoughs but a game will only be popular if casual players like me continu to play the game and buy skins. if all of us left only 5% of the player base would only play, and there would not be anyone you can bus to make money.
Hope smilazon do something to "help" the casual players base to make entry for playing easier.
join a guild! there are some very nice people around that are willing to help if you communicate with them😊
@@Ves1710 been trying to, but all the guilds i have joined have 2 people online that is it. but i will keep trying :D
Amazing ATK! I think the same like you. Thanks for talk about the difficulty for neew players do content.
I kinda would like you to talk to Stoopz about the multiple alts neccesity subject. At this point, you two are saying different things. Stoopz is saying that you can be capable of doing current content as F2P with 1-2 characters, and other people are saying you need 6 or more.
It definitely would be interesting to see a podcast episode with you guys discussing this stuff.
Spot on video! I've got 1 single high level ilevel character, and I've chosen to step away from being HC on multiple chars. The game is a lot more fun when you have people to play and interact with, but it seems thats much less now that the game is so unfriendly to new users. Like you, I also play MMO's to have fun with people, but LOA just doesn't have the social aspect I was looking for. I still love the game and play it every week, but nowhere near as I used to.
Probably getting trashed for it but thing Id change if I would be a LA dev:
1.) alts: should be an option not a must, you got 6 "entries" for gold earnings aka if you only select 1 character you get 6 times the rewards for each activity. That would make alts totally optional but not punishing to play them since you get the same rewards at the end of the week.
2.) guardians and chaos dungeons: similar to the first point you should get a bit more rewards if youre doing it on 1 character but id also include a daylie guardian rotation like the weekly challenge ones. you can select the guardians level requirement and the game scales its stats up to the selected point (your gear stays the same and is not adjusted!). You could replace chaos dungeons for random levels of the spire. eventhought thats not the best solution youd atleast have a different challenge every day.
3.) gatekeeping the newbies: I think a reward system for playing with new players would be cool. destiny has something similar like that. If you help people completing their first brel for instance. You can also just buff up new players like tera did aka give them improved stats and a free revive for each gate so they are not as heavy of a burden to play with but can actually perform similar to more geared players if they are good since their stats are buffed up.
4.) hellmodes: since hellmodes are pretty much only good for either having fun, trying out new builds or getting titles for flex I think this content should have 2 different version with 2 sets of rewards. the current version where your gear is capped and preselected BUT you wont consume battle items (similar to trixion practice mode). the other version of hellmodes would NOT have a gear cap BUT would consume battle items. this mode would be easier to bear since you can outscale it with better gear but it also makes practicing hellmodes easier and not as punishing. You can earn a clear title as well as a deathless title but they are blue instead of orange.
Id really love to hear some feedback of you guys and we could talk about my ideas
Several of the points you brought up is EXACTLY why I quit months ago. Did Helltan, had 3 characters at Kuku, etc.
The mindless BORING grind is absolute torture. There was literally nothing fun aside from raids but you HAD to do Chaos/Guardians multiple times a day or you'll be behind as hell.
Was fun while it lasted.. If they made some changes to the boring ass grinds, I'd probably come back.
I ended up quitting when brel was just released playing since launch due to it being finals week and just feeling a bit disenfranchised with the game. my main reason is a lot of the things you mentioned with how much time investment it takes to maintain six characters.
if it was worth my time to do these grinds I would do them, however given the North American launch is many months or even years behind content all content and theory crafting with characters ends up just being copy whatever Korea did.
that is the biggest issue I have and ultimately what led to me wanting to just quit and wait for something else because I had fun playing it but the time investment to play a checklist wasn't that fun to be worth spending every single day 8 plus hours a day to attempt to keep up.
having played a few Korean MMOs now as well as Korean mobile MMOs I understand how the investment model as you mentioned works and how Korean microtransactions and financial design of the game works, overall I'm okay with it I think it's not a terrible model it sucks that a person can spend $100,000 and get ahead but as long as it's not too unreasonable it can be fun to still play along beside them.
Lost ark lost me when it was no longer fun and it felt more of like a job to do this checklist to do clown to learn Brel just to execute these things that I already know how to do because there's a very precise guide on how to do absolutely everything.
7:43 it seems like you exclude one thing, it isn't only because of loud voices in the community. Although people recognize loa as alt-forced game, Surprisingly there is also a plenty of people playing only one or two chars, not to mention there are still completely new player that has only one main. For those, if SGR decide to reduce daily chores then those people would play only ten or twenty minutes in a day for combat content(which I was exactly doing several months ago, too) I think it's big part of reason as well. I still agree that it's better to have less time to do chores tho.
I got burned out with Lost Ark and stopped. There were many things I liked about this game, and I still think for a more "hardcore" crowd, it's one of the best MMOS.
The main thing I would have changed, if I could do it again would be not doing as many alts. Lopang alts are kind of a necessity, but I would just have used free powerpasses to level-up those.
I think smilegate is not doing a good job in protecting players from themselves when it comes to player burnout. So, any change which pushes people into playing fewer characters would be a win in my book.
I also think I got a little burned out by the third gate of Kakul-saydon. Most raids are either fun or satisfying, but on Kakul G3 the predominant feeling for me was anxiety.
I also didn't find "horizontal content" very satisfying... A lot of "horizontal content" is just waiting for loading screens.
The age of the game shows... There's ton of content in the game that's just not fun at all for anybody. I wouldn't mind if Smilegate just looked at the game, found the parts which were just not fun, and just removed them.
Honestly, if Smilegate released a game which were JUST RAIDS, I'd be really excited about it, even if they were reusing a lot of assets from Lost Ark.
Thank you for this video!! Mokoko here and I love playing LA
My biggest issue with the game is the gold aspect. Acquiring the amount of gold required to get one correct accessory, is ridiculous. You only make 6k per week with 6 characters (at Argos), assuming of course you don’t get carried. So to put together a build that won’t get you gate kept, takes months, and this is just to do Valtan or Vykas. Also not accounting for engraving books and materials to hone.
you are more than amazing to actually say what we all wanted to say... thank you so much for that and for ur guides time and effort that you gave us
I love the two voices you use for person A) / B) 🤣 Honestly great video.
ngl, it's almost impossible to learn a raid without knowing people that are willing to help. As a dps, Its hard to compete with whales on content release for a slot in learning parties. Then once the learn phase is over, its just reclears and busses. My apologies for not having lvl 10gems
This game is so unforgiving for someone who doesnt study the game or use discord to find a group. The design should be that everyone plays together and you dont feel stressed about blowing up a raid with a mistake.
The whole "daily tasks" argument, I agree - use rested. I only have 6 chars 5 of them are 1560 or higher. The other one is 1540. The only money I've ever spent was on ark pass. I don't do dailies every day. We get so much free stuff from events, log in rewards, twitch drops, prime loot. Literally so many FREE resources and people still fomo. I'm doing the same end game content as everyone else without investing the amount of time most do. You dont need to be 1600 giga whale lvl 25 weapon los 30 juicin to enjoy the game.
gatekeeping is one of the most annoying thing IMHO. i understand not many people can do flawless raid since it takes time to learn the mech. sometimes learning the mech through youtube is just to know what the mech will do and the requirements to do it. learning by doing is the most efficient way to familiarize urself with the mech. but then again, there is gatekeeping.
I'm glad im not crazy, I started saying consumables should be a part of hell mode preset since valtan hell released, kinda fun most of the feedback you provided is similar to what a lot of ppl've been saying since game released. Hopefully developers will listen to some of this.
Too many players (Myself included, i use to think this way) feel that not doing something should result in being punished or falling behind because you're not dedicated. I would be happy with 1 chaos dungeon and guardian per character OR if you don't do your 2 chaos/guardians, you build up rested FASTER so that if you miss one day, you get double loot for the next two kills, so you're not losing out unless you're full rested.
Maybe both changes would work best since we already have 5 rested bars, if we go down to 1 chaos a day, miss 5 days, the next 5 days provide double loot. This would go a long way to alleviate the feeling that you're missing out or being unable to catch up as you can't dedicated the ~3 hours a day to play multiple characters.
So the funny thing about the KR farming for real money point in EU/NA servers is that we can't do that, because bots dictate the RMT pricing to the point where it would not even be worth it to grind it out for selling legitimately.
I really loved the exploration and finding quests on all sorts of islands, meeting new characters, the rapport system and all. I really liked the art direction and the fact that there are medieval castles then the SF militaristic world with robots and all that. The gameplay is amazing, the fluidity and everything. For me, it all fell down when it got to the raids. I just don't find them fun at all. I understand people that like to have a challenge and I don't say remove raids, but I would have liked if Lost Ark had other ways of gear progression (that can be achieved solo). It is also very dependent on alts which is okay but in the long run is very tiring. Honestly it was a great game and experience up until the raids. The fact that if you make a mistake wipes the whole raid is just dumb. Not for me. I am really waiting for Diablo 4, and one of the biggest reasons is because it offers a better solo experience.
THIS!!! I honestly love the horizontal content, the story, the gameplay, the rapport stuff, exploring islands and so on. But I also like to progress like every player but the Legion raids are too hard and time consuming for me and almost impossible with a random squad. Also the huge punishment and wipe after a mistake is a problem too as you said. If there was a way to gear progress without it, I would enjoy LOA so much more. I know that most players love challenging stuff but it's really not for me and as a solo, casual player that still wants to progress, it's really difficult to keep on staying active in this game.
I recently quit the game because of how the game consumes your life. I played A LOT for the first year and I absolutely love the raids in this game but it just takes too much to keep going.
I think thats 80% of the players that keept playing after a few weeks, we quit because its too MUCH.
Yeah i recently quit too and i am feeling so much better.
It's no burnout or anything. I love the game but i just couldn't handle working and lost arknat the same time.
I can't play this game casually. Only hardcore or not at all.
The core of the problem for me is that game is too heavy based on making gold for your vertical progression. If we only had to spent our gold to buy skins, acessories and (if you want) honing materials the game would be in a much more healthier estate. Imo honing should only costs silver and the legendary book engravings should be a horizontal progression that you do it once and never more
Don't get me wrong, I love Asmon and watch him everyday and agree with most of his opinions. But his statement that AGS should just give ur main 6x the rewards and remove the need of alts is the biggest L take I've ever heard in my entire life. That can only come from someone who hasn't given serious thought to his take. When every Andy can get the amount of gold we previously needed to do all Raids on 6x characters before: A. The value of gold would go down B. There would be no way to increase your gold income anymore since alts wouldn't receive gold anymore, all it takes is 4 hours a week and everyone would do it. Hence there is no competition left. Accessory prices would go up by a lot and everyone would suddenly need to pay money whereas before you just played your 6x characters.
I don't know, I've been thinking about his take a lot, and the more I think about it, the more convinced I am it's just pure stupidity. Most people even enjoy playing alts (I do at least and all people I play Lost Ark with do too). Because a few people don't enjoy playing alts the game doesn't need to change, there are many other MMOs they can go to and play.
about the world tree leaves and working hard for it before.
I recently started a playing on NA East (NA West main). the Hyper express is too good to pass up.
Anyways, I farmed the Deep Dive set and You have a Plan card sets along with exp cards at Argon ever day.
I'm glad that they are making it easier for new players to get the card sets and card exp.
it took me about 2weeks to get them to get the 18 card effect. I could see how it would deter new players.
I played this game on the west hard since day 1 until the vykas release , where i burned out. Quit for a week due to having to learn the raid plus keep doing other weekly activities and stacked dailies , then cameback only to learn vykas and greatly cut other activities until i cleared vykas then gradually started to clear more things. But then i started to want to add more time to my other games and felt like i was playing the game too much...so i quitted right after brel release.
I miss my character though so i redownloaded the game and do random content when i feel like it , but wondering how worth it is to elongate my trip when I'm not going to be able to progress without getting again in the wheel 😢
the battle item for hell mode thing is a bigger problem in western too, you are expected to be overgeared and reach that point faster due to quicker releases -> gatekeeping, hell already takes away a lot of time so you generate less -> higher chance to get affected by gatekeeping and then it also costs money, if you have 1 year for the next raid release spending 100 or 200k on hell isn't that big of a deal but if you already barely make every single release with super grind every gold counts
i personally stopped hell mode because of 2 reasons: I lose too much income by spending time on grinding for hell deathless, and it costs too much slowing down my account progress further
another thing that would be really good to reduce gatekeeping for the wrong reasons: give us a page in the character sheet where we can show our best runs of certain raids, this has positive benefits for multiple reasons: it shows pure performance based results that includes both skill and character strength, it is a fast and clean way to check if a player contributes to their clears
people gatekeep you for not understanding your class and/or build (i for example run 1 level 5 cooldown gem still cause i don't need more for it to have it ready at all times in my rotation and i am sure people have declined me for that) also people only look at item level and engravings even tho most other factors are much more important for actual DPS (including skill which you cannot really show at all)
the only reason for me to play the game is that the raids are fun, most other stuff about the game just gives me pain and stress
Hell mode uses book of coordination so gear doesn't matter at all...
@@izzapro1 the gear matters for the normal raids which costs money and if you play hell it costs you aroun 50k of battle items each week if you put a lot of time into it, which is required for deathless unless you join a reclear party and get a "free carry" that's the whole point, if i invest in hell i will not be ready for the next abyss/raid in time
I value my time and so I've decided against bussing, but I have had 3 instances so far in G3 Kuku where M3 failed, resulting in the rest of my party dying while I'm doing M4, where I then ended up soloing the last 20 bars + bingo. This is why I always offer to do M3 but I don't always get the role, it's moments like these that really encourages people to do bussing or gatekeep content to high ilvls, such as being able to skip M3/M4 entirely.
completely agree with making it easier and faster to catchup for new players (be it collectibles/cards/honing anything) Lost ark i feel like is one of most harsh mmo i ever played for new x returning players. And agree doing 1 chaos and 1 guardian would be awesome change, hopefully will happen one day
Hi Albert, you're one of my favorite LOA's streamers.
I loved all you class interviews and actually rolled many of my most liked chars because of them. I viewed WD and DB interviews live and had so much fun interacting with you and chat.
LOA is an AMAZING game, it rekindled my love for MMOS, I'm kinda old and started playing online with Dark Age of Camelot and then WoW /GW2.
LOA gave me the same feelings I had back then.
That's why it felt bad to quit. Yeah I know it's just a game, but I felt bad anyway.
LOA's gameplay is one of the best I've ever experienced, classes are fun and unique, but progression is just too repetitive and unnecessarily so. SG decided to make things like this and I cannot understand why. Why double everything for dailies?
Maybe this is what made LOA the best MMO in Korea, but I feel like for the majority of western players it's too much. I'm sure there are many in NA/EU who love daily content the way it is, but I've seen so many people quit before me for the very same reason: repetitiveness.
I don't want to brag or anything, I'm saying this just to give perspective: I was in one of the best guilds in my server, more often than not we were first for GvE. We would label ourselves as semi-hardcore, but to be honest we had some really no lifer, me included, and now most of them quit.
If they had lowered daily and weekly grind maybe six months ago, I think many would have kept playing the game, but now I'm not so sure. Diablo 4 is so close to be released.
The sheer amount of people alone that I know will be playing it will probably make me play D4.
Anyway, sorry for the long post, I'm old and like all old people I just rant a lot.
o/
i got so addicted to this game when it was released for western audience. then most of my rank 1 guild in our server quit due to no content for so long and we had nothing to do. i do not regret quitting this game. just watching someone do dailies just exhaust me and dont even get me started with those obnoxious pheons. honestly there is a great game somewhere in there but i am done with these boring ass chores. i agree with u totally.
Add a skip option, when you complete dailies with your main, you can skip with ur 5 alts and you get 70% of the mats.. if you want more mats do them manually. Same for raids i guess, it will probably stop busses as well.
I agree with your takes! I quit the game after actively playing for a year mostly because the grind is too much and it just gets stale. I thought to myself im grinding to get characters to hard brel but then im gonna be stressed about having to do hard brel on all my characters. Not to mention dailes became too much to do along with all the raids. Also, thought about coming back to the game but got gatekept since I didnt have brel title on a brel horns character. I think the game needs to change to maybe 2 raids per week along with less daily or more interactive daily content like you mentioned. My guildies who are still active dont seem excited about the content and they just play out of sunk cost or not having anything else to play. If I was SG I would not worry about having people log in everyday but make sure they are active on a weekly/monthly basis and focus on new players.
I know a lot of people hate the idea but honestly just make the raids able to be done with any number of people(1-8) instead of requiring it to be a full 8 people to play this is the only issue I see with the game I play deadeye pistoleer 1540 but I get gate kept even tho most my gems are lvl8 I have a 5x3 with no negative engravings but they still gate keep me :(
this is the first mmo I've gotten into and it's really fun but being gate kept by people who can only do the raids while being overgeared really makes me want to find a new game to play :(
The fact that legendary gear at +17 takes over 500 gold per tap with 5% succes it’s sad. I’m only 1445 and I feel depressed that I won’t even get close to see a sidereal as a f2p that keeps getting gate kept because I don’t have Los 18+ in Valtan hard and I have to keep buying buses to go up. You should be able to progress quick and unlock all raids to experience the full game, not to farm a week for 5 chances at a successful hone
To be fair, we are kinda lucky in the west that playing just 1 character actively can bring you to the current item level and content and allow you to play all raids. However, this is only the case because you can funnel all the roster bound stuff from events, daily login and weekly guardian / abyss into one character. Playing multiple characters actually does not pay off unless you either sell busses or put them on minimum wage and investment, which leads to 1490+ characters with Argos Accessoires and lvl 4 gems.
I have too many characters and I enjoy raiding, but I know for sure that I would quit in 1 month if rest bonus wouldn't exist. If we get extra chaos dungeon entries from login reward, I use them after doing a rested chaos so I get 1 free rested run. I don't want to do unrested chaos dungeons with 6+ characters. Going rested I cut this down to 2 characters work for 4 character reward.
Also, I really wish hell mode had free battle items like the prokel trixion fight or an alternative option to get your reward from clearing a hell raid instead of the normal one. Clearing the intented highest difficulty should also yield you the rewards or at least not cost you anything, not punish you for trying to learn a difficult raid.
Unrelated question to the topic of the video...
Where is the cat on the head of his Artist/Aero/Ayaya at the table from?
Its really nice to see a guy thats got the badge to prove he knows his shit and says it how it is.
my biggest problem with the game right now is how long some of the gates are. 20 minutes for one fight is way too long. people in other games would never tolerate that.
you mean games like WoW where progress of new raids takes sometimes weeks to even kill it for first time? are you new to MMORPG genre? Lost ark have little bit longer fights but they dont take even half of time to progress than other MMOs on scene.
@n30n what part exactly is not true? You mean that part where ppl who play wow for living are paying 10k dollars per raid to compete in race to world first and it still takes 10 days to even kill the last boss? Or you mean the part where 99% players will never even touch that boss on hardest difficulty?
@@vengon9655 The difference is you don't have to clear that raid every week on 6 characters or more to maintain progression.
The current Legion Raids in Lost Ark are more analogous to Mythic or Mythic+ dungeons in WoW, or your Duty Roulette in FF14, or Fractals in GW2.
The traditional raids in WoW/FF14 are more akin to Hell/Inferno in Lost Ark. The way Lost Ark is designed, having a raid that takes 20 minutes that also forces you to have a certain amount of people alive is too long and too punishing. ATK also rightly points out the paradox where raids are able to be bussed with a low man group, but at the same time can fail off of one death.
There's a reason why SG purposely made Akkan a much more chill raid and that the vast majority of players in KR don't do 5-6 Brel.
@@whydidimakethis111 ''The difference is you don't have to clear that raid every week on 6 characters or more to maintain progression.'' and this is biggest lie ever shared in lost ark community. in our static theres one guy who is playing 1 character and hes 1573 ilvl right now. never bought anything. so hes almost akkan ready when akkan will be released in maybe half a year. Im someone who is playing 6 characters and I already have 5x3+1 with average 99 quality accesories on 2 characters. playing 6 characters is not to maintain progression. its a way how to be extremely ahead and overgeared.
@@vengon9655 The overall point on raid design still stands. This game's raids aren't anywhere remotely similar to the pinnacle raids of WoW or FF14 in terms of design or difficultly. In those games, clearing those pinnacle raids doesn't wall your progression the way that raids in Lost Ark do. You clear those once and are done. The design of the game accounts for the fact that most players who even attempt them will pull those hundreds if not thousands of times.
So using those as a baseline comparison for Lost Ark's raid difficulty is not a fair comparison.
As I said, Lost Ark's raids are more akin to the daily/weekly raiding content from other MMOs, and they should be balanced and designed as such. Having 20 minute fights that require a certain amount of people alive is too punishing for regular content. Smilegate basically agreed when they designed Akkan. Hell mode is a different story and is more analogous to the pinnacle raids from other games.
If the rewards were scaled more appropriately, maybe there would be a point. But the gold value they give from a single raid is not very high, especially given how inflated the Western economy was. As ATK also points out, Chaos Dungeons daily is a better value source than Legion Raids due to the variety of mats they drop, and Chaos Dungeons require zero effort.
love the suggestion of changing wipe mechanics to buff mechanics
thinking about how challenge guardians was done -- was super fun to become a juicer after successfully finishing a mech
First of all, carrying should not even exist in the first place, the fact that it exist is mind-boggling. The purpose of having a gear score should serve to restrict people from entering a raid, period. When I played Maplestory back in the day. "Kerning Party Quest" was for level 21 to level 30. There wasn't a level 100 selling clears for the party quest, why should there be?
Sounds like the Juicers wanna remain the strongest while keeping the weak mfs gatekept.
At this rate, all the casuals and new players are gonna drop out and all that’s left are gonna be the juicers, and they’re not gonna have those “customers” paying them.
They’re basically killing the game
Ngl, i dropped this game for like a week because of the RNG gambling Stone cutting requiring Pheons to buy, before my friends forced me back in for the brel hard. Have been playing wayy less tho.
Gatekeeping is the most normal thing to do if it's not to an extreme. Me for an example, I just want to see you put some love into your character. I don't really care about your Roster Level or which Class engraving you play or whatever, but put some love into your character man. Most people in this game have like a very nice built main and 5 disgusting alts and get mad when their alts don't get chosen to a party?
I've seen people around me with not really well built alts beeing mad after getting rejected to party, doing a party themselves and rejecting people with similar built characters?
I think people want the most with putting in as little effort as possible.
or hear me out. not everyone no lifes the game. Not everybody has thousands of hours to "put love into their character man". This is one of the most weak arguments ive ever hear. look bud, at the end of the day you elitist are going to "gatekeep" your game into the grave. This isnt a matter of "if" but "when". The fact that you dont understand the fact that having new players enjoy your game is the most important part of keeping it going is hilarious. By all means bro keep gatekeeping and enjoy a free 80gb of drive space when your game dies
@@eliteghost0001 you can do a decent build with 10k gold nowadays. If you cant do it its your problem, not "evil whales" fault. That's an excuse.
@@eliteghost0001 saying this to someone that is in a guild that is known for it's reputation for learning runs is kinda ironic. But I get your point and it's sad that new players indeed have to experience that. I myself am a Returnee to Lost Ark. I came back to the game when Vykas HM got released. I joined a Guild, learned from them, watched them do the raids for weeks on a discord stream and eventually went raiding with them.
And we still help people, especially in Raids.
So if you're struggling try to find people that are willing to help.
@@Roboante11 weak cop out. Do you play the game, you are seemingly blind to the actual new player experience. Cool so a good build together for 10k. That would be fantastic if it were true … it’s not btw. For what getting into argos 😂 you will run out of pheons before you even get started on your build. Check back into reality. I quite literally started building and ran out of pheons just trying to get a decent stone. Crazy how out of touch with reality you are. I’m sure 10k gold is nothing to you bud but to new players it is especially when you aren’t even able to spend that 10k gold because of some other dumb currency. Back to the drawing board you go, I eagerly await your rebuttal. Also why are you quoting me on something I never even said. I literally whaled on this game when it first came out bozo.
@@Ves1710 I’m not speaking directly to your character but the way you spoke painted your attitude very clearly and it’s elitism by definition. What you just said and the fact that you help new players are very much opposites. Regardless I’m just tired of people not understand that gatekeeping can and will kill your game.
I agree. Its pretty rough out there, even me with LOS 30 all lvl 7 gems and very high quality on all my characters. I still get gatekept, due to class or engraving build that I choose. -- I think a great solution would be to allow people to make classes freely & also obtain power more quickly even up to lvl 9 gems / tripods and everything to be much more quickly to obtain, more fun activity's to increase the play time since grinding will be less. Imagine if you could make a character super easy & gold much more obtainable and gems easier to get (maybe the lvl 10 ones and ceiling slightly harder to keep some grind available) but at the end of the day, the easier it is to allow entry...will keep more players and retain more players and create more fun & less gatekeeping.
-- The main reason = Playing classes & Legion raids is the most fun, trying out new classes (at there highest or near highest potential) is also some of the most fun you can have as a player. Allowing people to obtain the power curve faster & at less cost & more gold readily available through activities would make the game more fun. Being gate kept by the creators, the players & by game power / gold everyday is a problem. People want to have fun. Fun = Raids / New Classes & Playing your characters at there highest potential or near highest without the cost of 1-2 years of there life for a fraction of the power.
Should make chaos/guardian (other dailys?) have a set # of times you can do per day account wide and just let you run them on whichever character(s) you enjoy the most.
I started playing a few weeks ago, I wouldn't be playing still if the story/hyper passes didn't exist. Screw the gear system in this game, just let me poke things with my stick! I'm fine with the big raids being a once a week thing, but needing to play an hour every day (At least) to get the mats you need to progress at anything faster than a snail's pace is just dull. I get gating content behind a grind to ensure that people know how their abilities and the general game systems work, and I even get time-gating that grind so people can't binge through it, but this is just insane. (And not even training you for the actual content in the case of chaos dungeons/many guardian raids)
So much effort goes in to just getting to the fun parts of the combat, I just find it to be a slog. I'd love to have a second char at a high enough ilvl to do valtan for a second time, but I just can't be bothered ;-;
1. Smilegate should make a generous offer to ATK and try to hire him to direct/produce/consult on the game.. The game, its community and future would all be 100x better off. He's brilliant, balanced and extraordinarily thoughtful.
2. I endorse his view points enthusiastically
3. The primary issue I have with the game is the manner in which it delivers content. While LA is considered an MMO I believe the most fair compare is and will be to Diablo IV, Path of Exile, and POE 2. I struggle with the amount of time I spend actually playing my characters in LA vs those other games. LA has me doing A TON of stuff that is not playing the game. I spend far too much time in LA trying to hone, upgrade gear, tripods, and what feels like 100 other "systems". Whereas in those other games I am traversing the world, fighting monsters, running maps and getting loot. They end up being a lot more fun because I am playing vs managing. And while I am a huge fan of exploration gameplay, the islands in LA dont scratch that itch. At all.
4. I would come back to LA if I felt there was a game there to play. LA has the best raids of any game I have played, and I have played most all of them. I love the raiding and the content design of the classes, spells and combat is off the charts good. There just isnt enough venues where that is utilized in an effective and fun way.
5. LA feels way more repetitive than these other games..the daily grind is dreadful.
My feedback. I have a lot of investment made into LA but dont currently play anymore. Our entire 50 person guild (Legacy Opal) quit. Sad....the things above would bring some back. Hope they listen
I enjoy playing in lost ark. I don’t have a lot of time for grinding hardcore raids every day or weekend. But I still do chaos with 9 characters. My progress may be slow ,but I believe I can make it eventually. Recently I feel the brelshaza 5-6 (normal/hard) is still too difficult for me to do. I’m 1560 ,over geared for normal Brel. I still cannot clear the 5-6. There’s not a lot of people are willing to teach or spend time. 😢I’m old guy . I started with my friends . Now they all quit and haven’t log in for two months + . We never finish Brel 5-6 together! That’s my sad story.
I mean I tried to do Brel 5-6 several times, but I cannot do like other players 6-12hours+ a day to make it pass. I know there’s few hardcore players do 6 x Hard Brel 50 hrs + per week. So they can pass it and get the rewards
ATK, you are right. During the loa-on event, Korean players went into the ENG Sub stream and made fun of us because we wanted reduced dailies. One mentioned that "they used to have three CDs," so we should "be happy with the changes."
I'm stuck in the situation where I want to play but dont have a consistent group to play with, so my characters sit there and I dont do anything at this point
I want them to make when player reach certain characters count player can just do dailies once per character but still get the usual 2x rewards. So player with less characters will stil do 2x. I like all my characters I don't want them to be abandoned and with all that cool upcoming class and me getting less time. The chance are getting bigger and bigger, I'm afraid now.
As a somewhat small spender with 6 characters that quit recently, I feel bad for the friends who are passionate about the game and still playing. Most of our static quit at the same time too and as much as i loved playing, I can't be spending what was like 30-40 hours a week on grinding. Going back to easier MMO's like Destiny 2 and Warframe is night and day on how little investment you need for them. If Lost Ark was more casual friendly, it would've been so much more popular but as it stands, i really don't feel like the community will grow.
well comparing warframe where theres literally 0 endgame content if you dont count endless grind for frames to gear based MMORPG is kinda weird. MMORPG games were always made to be timesink and rewarding for people who put time into it. I played warframe for 800 hours, got all weapons, all frames and most maxed important mods and left the game because theres just nothing to do.
I quit back in december because I don't want to play 6+ characters a week for the rest of my life. Let me play one character for an hour or two a day and be free.
I started the game originally on launch and played for 2 months before quitting as i was playing alone mainly. When Artist released i gave it a go again and i'm currently at ilvl 1477.50 and did replay the story again to get used to LA once more.
Little did i know, i had to get relic gear to even have a slight chance of finding a learning party for valtan and vykas.
And i still havent been able to find a learning party. "Roster level to low, not lvl 2 relic gear, not lvl 30 awakening, only lvl 5 gems" there are plenty of stuff i get hit with as excuses.
In easy words, if you want the game to endure, make the endgame more accessible to new players.
The only endgame a newb like myself can enjoy is busses.
Your video was great. I'll go back to party finder tonight and slam my head against my desk 🫠
I don't get the gear race, once you have the highest then what do you do? Do you finish daily faster perhaps? Get rich and start leveling up all characters? But same cycle though. Having Community I can understand. The best and most rewarding game for me is street of rage 4 or nine parchment simply because family bonding with my wife and daughter. spending quality time together is priceless. The sense of fullfillment is something that i cant describe. I feel we climb mountain together. We've probably beat it 100s of times in normal mode by now and my wife still only know 2 buttons to press and me and my kid caries her on some levels but its fun actually since a bit more challenging for us. When a game is too hard, my wife can't play then me and my daughter feel the emptiness. I prefer game with different mode of difficulty to be honest so that my wife can play even there is not much of a reward because Rewards are subjective in my opinion.