Was Bleach's Biggest Plot Twist A Retcon

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 186

  • @__Kumo
    @__Kumo  7 วันที่ผ่านมา +28

    IMPORTANT
    i missed up a little bit.. the clip of the explanation on how did yuha get sealed was a little bit out dated as it dropped before the new info we got on yuha in the 3rd cour so i should have just re explained with the updated info..
    so basically the way yuha regained his eyes is because he got pernida out of his body (pernida was like a blind fold to yuhas eyes preventing him from using the almighty)
    the timeline went like this
    around 2000 years ago ichibei sealed yuhas eyes
    a 1000 years ago yuha lost but didnt die against the og gotei because he didnt have the almighty that makes it an instant win for yuha
    yuha got sealed by ichibei hence why ichigo couldnt hear his name 997 years later
    and i think yuha got rid of pernida out of his body around 9 years before the war the moment he regained his pulse
    and willingly didnt use the almighty as according to jugram if he used the almighty before the 9 years period where he regains his spiritual powers pass the almighty will get out of his control

  • @sixis268
    @sixis268 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +316

    It’s almost like white spent the entire arrancar arc screaming “I AM ZANGETSU” you’d think people would have good enough reading comprehension to notice that.

    • @b-d9099
      @b-d9099 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +49

      In a series where everything is a subtext people don't listen when you have a character saying things straight

    • @kannan07
      @kannan07 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@b-d9099sadly the illiteracy that started with DBZ has spread everywhere

    • @tinfoilslacks3750
      @tinfoilslacks3750 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +31

      To be fair, White does say "I'm a part of Zangetsu, and Zangetsu is a part of me."

    • @morving7714
      @morving7714 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +29

      ​@@tinfoilslacks3750And that's also true tho lol 😂

    • @sixis268
      @sixis268 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +19

      @@tinfoilslacks3750 bleach chapter 220, page 9, panel 3, white says “i told you…im zangetsu”

  • @Binks129
    @Binks129 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +183

    Old Man has never said “My name is Zangetsu” White literally shouted it out loud in the arrancar arc. I AM ZANGETSU!!!

    • @simbadas1234
      @simbadas1234 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      why was tensa zangetsu a young man with black hair

    • @ryanlam5237
      @ryanlam5237 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

      @@simbadas1234 Ichigo using bankai represents him bringing forth more of his shinigami power thereby repressing his quincy powers. Younger Yhwach is a representation of his quincy powers being weaker in that moment

    • @loomiez6802
      @loomiez6802 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      bro, did you forget episode 19? Old man literally said "it’s me, Zangetsu." It was one of his first lines

    • @Binks129
      @Binks129 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +17

      @@loomiez6802 Rewatch the Anime or reread the Manga. He never said Zangetsu, it was blanked out.

    • @loomiez6802
      @loomiez6802 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Binks129 he did in hulu but not in netflix, i think

  • @Grayson-Winchester
    @Grayson-Winchester 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +184

    The greatest foreshadowing was Mugetsu itself. Ichigo partially turning into Yhwach

    • @mrhatandclogs
      @mrhatandclogs 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      Yeah man also you in the bankai folk server

    • @Honest_Mids_Masher
      @Honest_Mids_Masher 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +38

      The eyes, the black hair the fact that Mugetsu shares a strikingly similar cost to a Quincy Letz Stil which was shown by Uryu back in Soul Society Arc.

    • @bmxgu2361
      @bmxgu2361 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @mrhatandclogs And r/bleach

    • @Zakjuh
      @Zakjuh 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +18

      @@Honest_Mids_Masher Mugetsu was absolutely some form of Letzt Stil. It was even granted by his Quincy powers, and we've never seen Isshin use it, so we don't even know if it actually exists or if Isshin can even use it. And if it does exist and Isshin can use it, it still could've been that Ichigo's Quincy powers just bullshitted it. "I need to give a power unlike anything ever before that will cause Ichigo to lose his? Uhh, sounds a lot like Letzt Stil, so..."
      Mind you back in those days, people assumed Isshin knew FGT because he lost his powers by using it, but that never actually happened since he lost his powers in order to stave off Masaki's hollowfication. And Masaki herself was a Quincy, so he knows about Ichigo's Quincy heritage and could've easily surmised that it afforded Ichigo some sort of special power. He just couldn't tell Ichigo straight up that it was Quincy power.

    • @Jesscresent76
      @Jesscresent76 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      @@Zakjuhkinda, like Isshin said mugetsu is tied to the final Getsuga Tensho where one becomes Getsuga itself, Ichigo’s Getsuga is made by his Quincy hollow and Shinigami powers so it combines aspects of all of those, the black from the the hollow/shinigami with Ichigo’s version of lets stil

  • @tinfoilslacks3750
    @tinfoilslacks3750 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +117

    Ever notice that Byakuya comments that no bankai could be as small and simple as Tensa Zangetsu, and then we find out that Zanka no Tachi, the one bankai which defeated Yhwach and the one he's most familiar with (especially East, the first form) is also a normal sized katana just like Tensa Zangetsu is. The first Tensa Zangetsu is a facsimile of Zanka no Tachi created by Yhwach's assumptions of what a bankai are.

    • @aaronbordis
      @aaronbordis 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +17

      Exactly, also Byakuya says that cuz most bankais (him included) do not change its form or the appeareance of the one who activates it, Byakuya can turn Senbonzakura into cherry blossom petals but his zanpakuto remains in the same form, same with other captains, the manifestation of a bankai is external to the zanpakuto itself like Toshiro's (not mature bankai. Yama's is an exception) and doesn't change the shape of it or the wielder like Ichigo's shihakusho. I like how all the powers of Ichigo are manifested outside of his body/zanpakuto, like the hollow mask, his fake bankai, and even his fullbring (which is merged with his hollow powers, u can see it in the white pieces he has on his shihakusho), don't remember if HoS was about his quincy powers or a new form of using his hollow powers

    • @tonymack4120
      @tonymack4120 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      Zanka no tachi is the flames. He doesn't have a small bankai at all. I can't think of anyone with a small bankai like Ichigo false bankai

    • @kaivin88
      @kaivin88 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      ​@@aaronbordisIs it only really the form and not the nature too?
      I can see renji's bankai change it's appearance so in turn it should be a change in form right? But it's nature, it's functionality are the same even with both Hihio Zabimaru and Zou Zabimaru both have the same functionality where latter adds another set of abilities like explosive power from Zambimaru's gorilla side which is the one who didn't acknowledge renji at first.
      On the other hand, Ichigo's bankai is very different on its shikai form as it feels more like an arrancars resurrection where it adds tremendous speed with boosted base stats like his explosive power which is a huge change in the zanpaktou's nature and form.
      And I do think 🤔 Ichigo's bankai is actually the singularity of all his unlocked powers, for instance both of his base appearance and bankai appearance actually added something after he became a fullbringer and also after he acknowledged his Quincy heritage.
      Kubo did say in an interview that it's called "Tensa Zangetsu" because the chains represent his bondage on his heritage and powers or something like that.

    • @metal87power
      @metal87power 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      You take Byukuya's comment too literally. He didn't mean the size of the Bankai, but Ichigo Bankai didn't add anything to his arsenal other than more focused spiritual pressure and speed. Renji's completed Bankai is also small but increases his power and abilities. Rukia's the same. And Byukuya's Bankai isn't a huge monster either. Those blades don't take up much space if they are squeezed in one place.

    • @metal87power
      @metal87power 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@tonymack4120 Yeah, Yama's bankai envelops the entire Soul Society.

  • @Nekogami04
    @Nekogami04 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +49

    Some more evidence:
    When they first meet, Old Man Zangetsu manipulates reishi like a Quincy when telling Ichigo how to create footholds in the air. He also used Blut and Shadow during the fight with Kenpachi, though those weren't revealed to be Quincy abilities until TYBW.
    The Hollow shows complete mastery over Zangetsu, which Ichigo copies after witnessing it (sword flail, Black Getsuga, Getsuga during sword clash, etc.).
    Merged Tensa Zangetsu blatantly states that the Hollow and the Old Man are one being (Ichigo/his power/zanpakuto) and have been since the beginning. Ichigo finally realizes this, and it comes full circle with "THE BLADE IS ME".

  • @NotGahruvey
    @NotGahruvey 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +73

    From the very start of the series when Ichigo got his powers White has always mentioned he was Zangetsu.
    Not only that, you never see Ywach use the blade, its always White.
    Showing more of his foreshadowing, Ichigo also mentioned to Yachiru “who are you, or rather WHAT are you”
    Kubo is a beast.

    • @tinfoilslacks3750
      @tinfoilslacks3750 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +29

      Let's not forget that Yachiru was the one telling Kenny "it wasn't fair, it was two on one!" Implying that she could sense Ichigo's zanpakuto cooperating with him.

    • @TeintaKukoro
      @TeintaKukoro 4 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      He uses a Blade in the Bankai training I'm sure.

  • @bmxgu2361
    @bmxgu2361 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +53

    There's another great point of foreshadowing tied to this (Manga Spoilers!):
    There's even a scene during Ichigo's bankai training where Old Man Zangetsu tells him "One of these swords is the real zangetsu.. Only that can defeat me.". Said sword is his original shikai, which is what then eventually does kill him (Yhwach) later on.

  • @tinfoilslacks3750
    @tinfoilslacks3750 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +38

    I think that, given in episode 19, "Zangetsu" attempts to say his name and it's distorted but the last syllable is clearly "ha" to the point "-ha" appears in the official subtitles, I can't in good conscious call it a retcon. Even without that though, that Old Man Zangetsu, in 500 chapters, never refers to himself as Zangetsu, despite the fact the narrative and other characters assume that's his name, is far too deliberate to be a coincidence a retcon capitalized on.

    • @Hymn_
      @Hymn_ 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      and in the manga it was censored by an ink which even proves further more that the zangetsu plot twist was never a retcon

  • @FungusBug
    @FungusBug 15 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    Old Man, to my knowledge, never once directly refers to himself as “Zangetsu”. White, however, does refer to himself as Zangetsu.

  • @godknightomega
    @godknightomega 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    Funny thing is White was basically confirmed to be Ichigo's Soul Reaper powers during that final fight vs Ulquiorra.
    Note that when White took over he "force pulled" the blade back to his hand as if linked to it.
    Ichigo never had that ability nor do we see any other Soul Reaper do so.

  • @seanpaolofernandez9636
    @seanpaolofernandez9636 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Its a retcon, just not a contradictory one, it doesn't harm the narrative since old man presence wasn't entirely a lie, he was still a part of Ichigo, just not the main part of him.

  • @strawhatroy
    @strawhatroy 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +57

    I mean, shit, if it's a retcon it's a DAMN good one. Probably top 3 retcons in anime history, if that's the case.

    • @vampswagg
      @vampswagg 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      my nga roy 🧌

  • @lolwhat19
    @lolwhat19 4 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    1) The panel when OMZ can't say his name, his blocked speech doesnt actually have ink - its brick cracked effect, not a brush stroke
    2) In the anime adaptation of the same panel (which people uses a lot) he says "Zangetsu da" but the sfx only makes the "...a" at the end hearable. He doesn't say Yuhabaha
    3) Kubo didn't know about the Old Testament based lore back when he was writing the SS arc. And his knowledge on German stuff was also very shallow. Only after his trip to Europe (which was before he started TYBW arc) he got the ideas and made his research.
    Result: YES, its a retcon. TYBW is mostly a big hunch of retcons.

    • @__Kumo
      @__Kumo  4 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Yapping

  • @goosmdoosm4755
    @goosmdoosm4755 4 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Another way to look at Ichigo's powers is using the Tao or Yin-Yang symbol. Ironically, Hollow Zangetsu represents Yang, Chaos, and Instinct, whereas Old Man Zangetsu represents Yin, Order, and Caution.
    However, the Tao symbol also has a tiny bit of the opposites within each other, which subverts but also completes each aspect:
    The order within Hollow Zangetsu was his drive to always protect Ichigo from mortal danger, hence the moments of possessiveHollowfication and especially the Vasto Lordetransformation. This instinct aligns with Ichigo's altruistic nature in protecting others.
    Likewise, the chaos within the Old Man Zangetsu was him suppressing Ichigo's powers, forcing him to be aware of his weakness, and retreat for another day. This time, Ichigo's altruism is contested against the Old Man's well-wishes.

    • @Devilelf
      @Devilelf 7 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      You are like the first person ive ever seen mention this holy shit
      Im not alone. A little support to this btw is the designs. White holds that black belt and black, i dont call him old man, his white collar, supporting the whole idea of the tao

  • @RealLifeIronMan
    @RealLifeIronMan 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Did Kubo plan Old Man Zangetsu to be a Quincy from his first introduction? Almost certainly not. Was Wichigo always planned to be Zangetsu? That is a little more complicated.
    Ichigo's inner world was always highly symbolic. Wichigo was used as a symbol of Ichigo's shadow, his violent instincts and darkest thoughts. Where as OMZ was used as a symbol of Ichigo's superego, his deepest desires to be a man who protects others. Additionally zanpakto's (with few exceptions) are parts of the shinigami's soul. That is all to say, from their first appearances OMZ and Whichigo always were parts of Ichigo; were Ichigo himself.
    That is why even before the TYW arc, what Wichgo said about being Zangetsu was already partially true, as Whichigo is part of Ichigo (his shadow), Whichigo is also part of Zangetsu. And I beleive that was Kubo's original intention, that OMZ and Wichigo were both Zangetsu, two halves of a whole. Demonstrated further when the two fuse, in the Fake Karakura arc. If you had any doubts before, than in this arc is obvious both OMZ and Wichigo are Zangetsu. They have to be as they are one being.
    It was only later retconned that OMZ was never Zangetsu. For one, if OMZ wanted to keep Ichigo from accessing shinigami powers he did a very bad job; letting him obtain Bankai in three days. The above only makes sense if OMZ isn't a quincy.
    As mentioned by someone else, at the start of a manga you make details vague enough that any number of backstories can explain it in the future. So the story for how Ryuken, Isshin, and Urahara know each other was always vague enough at that point in the story, Kubo could make it anything in the future.
    OMZ's name being covered was to hide the name Zangetsu until Ichigo trained to learn it. No shinigami can hear their Zanpakto's name until they train.

    • @Natertron24
      @Natertron24 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I actually just typed out a whole comment on this video saying something very similar. Like you said, I think Kubo gave himself enough malleable plot points that e could later connect and call back to when he had more refined details.
      In my comment I also mention how if everything were planned out from the beginning, why would he give the Quincy a non-German sounding name, when everything else about their naming convention is German?

  • @regionfuego6
    @regionfuego6 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +24

    Ok, I like the video, but there's a rule of thumb in writing that states the following: "The key to make a satisfactory resolution to the foreshadowing you set up, is to make said foreshadow vague enough that anything you come up later on can satisfy it". Which means, in the Bleach example, that Kubo didn't have to know what Ishin and Uryu's dad relationship was exactly, just that they must have some kind of relationship that was tied with Urahara in some way.
    The exact details don't matter when you first write it. In fact, if you analyze what Kubo wrote, you'd find out that things are vague enough that a wide variety of different backstories could have led up to the same conclusion. I think this video is interesting, but you need to tackled down the issue with the idea that a good writer isn't just the one that plans out everything in detail in advance but also the one that can tie up any loose ends and make it seem flawless.

    • @Purpleeest
      @Purpleeest 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

      I really think that's what happened with Bleach and Kubo. Old man zangetsu is very clearly supposed to be icihigos zanpakuto spirit early on. He manifests as a sword, sometimes half his body is the blade. At the point in the story where his name is censored or covered it's the part where ichigo doesn't know the name of his sword yet. Later ichigo is told his name, zangetsu. I don't think there was anything more to it back then. However I think Kubo did start playing around with the idea later on. I think the point about white saying that ichigos power will be his one day, was just Kubo playing on the idea that one day white would take over ichigos body.
      No matter how many times I reread it, it feels like a retcon to me but that's not a bad thing.

    • @RealLifeIronMan
      @RealLifeIronMan 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      ​@@Purpleeest The only sane people in the comment section

    • @sigfreed1737
      @sigfreed1737 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      @@Purpleeest I agree with what you said about old man zangetsu i believe its 100% a retcon but most bleach fans will swear up and down its not

    • @Purpleeest
      @Purpleeest 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @sigfreed1737 it's okay that it's a retcon imo. Doesn't have to be foreshadowing. He's foreshadowed a lot of other things. It's just really hard for me to suspend my disbelief enough to accept that he always planned for omz to be ywach. But it's cool that he took omz and turned him into ichigos Quincy powers.

    • @sigfreed1737
      @sigfreed1737 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@Purpleeest its kinda cringe to do this but in my latest video there is a chapter/timestamp called zangetsu the ultimate retcon where I think I proved pretty definitively if i do say so myself that Ichigo's inner sprits were retconned. its cool if you don't have the time but this stuff has been a big lie perpetuated by some bleach fans for awhile now.

  • @That1Redhead28
    @That1Redhead28 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    Now if this was Oda, no one would question it

    • @Zac_Frost
      @Zac_Frost 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Oda has done plenty of ass pulls himself, tbh. Everybody just glazes him too much.

    • @That1Redhead28
      @That1Redhead28 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      @ I love one piece but you’re right

    • @Zac_Frost
      @Zac_Frost 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@That1Redhead28 Yeah. It's good, but people put him on way to high of a pedestal lol.

    • @VENG-k1d
      @VENG-k1d 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      ​Some stuff aren't even foreshadowing but they'll say it is, like with viva card thing, it's just a plot convenience, not a foreshadow

    • @SerunaXI
      @SerunaXI 11 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      Oda has done a lot of dumb things these past few years. In particular hyping Kaido and his crew up so much that it took some pretty strong stretches to achieve victories.

  • @Natertron24
    @Natertron24 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    While I 100% agree that there are parts about Ichigo's abilities that were intentionally hinted at in the very beginning but not fully explained until later, I can't bring myself to agree that every concept was planed out from the beginning. For sure, having the Old Man "Zangetsu" name redacted was intentional to set up a mystery, but that doesn't mean the answer to this mystery was always that the redacted name was Ywatch. Same thing goes for why Uriu's dad and Ichigo's dad knew each other, and the power dynamic between Old Man and and actual Zangetsu.
    I think what Kubo did was give himself some malleable plot points early on that he was able to connect back to later when the series direction became more defined. It something that a lot of writers do to help the creative process, allowing to decontextualize earlier events in ways that fit the narrative they now want to tell.
    One of the biggest details I think showcases not everything was planned out from the very beginning is the name "Quincy." Despite the German theme the Quincies have that parallels to te Arranc's Spanish theme, the name "Quincy" is not German at all. And it's not like this is just the name the Soul Reapers call the Quincy, the Quincy themselves use the name "Quincy."
    I believe this name is a holdover from the very early chapters of the manga, before the Wandenreich and even Ywatch were ever an idea in Kubo's mind.
    I could of course be wrong, but that it how it seems to me.

    • @RealLifeIronMan
      @RealLifeIronMan 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Natertron24 Quincy is a slight localization. The actual term used in the original japanese is Kuinshī. Translated from Japanese it means "monk of destruction'.

    • @Natertron24
      @Natertron24 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@RealLifeIronMan True, but my point still stand that Kuinshi is still a Japanese word being used as an name, and not a German word. Unlike Arrancar and Espada which are actually a Spanish words.

    • @RealLifeIronMan
      @RealLifeIronMan 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Natertron24 I was agreeing with you.

    • @Natertron24
      @Natertron24 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@RealLifeIronMan Ah gotcha, I guess hearing the full definition sounded like counter point in my mind. My bad!

    • @RealLifeIronMan
      @RealLifeIronMan 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@Natertron24 I guess I was trying to support by mentioning everything about the Quincy is Japanese at first. The Shinigami are based on Shinto Kami, but the Quincy are literally Japanese Christians. And just like the early Japanese Christians, they were wiped out because they disturbed the order of things. That is why the Quincy cross used to be just a Christian cross, and why Uryu wears a Christian monk habit.

  • @tjpprojects7192
    @tjpprojects7192 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Remember, Ichigo has a Quincy cross on his bedsheets in chapter 1.

    • @Devilelf
      @Devilelf 7 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      Thats only in the anime

  • @Nolava0why7Because0yes
    @Nolava0why7Because0yes 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Thats a pretty solid point, i think i agree
    Would definitely like to gear your thoughts on the FGT and Mugetsu in a video at some point

  • @Zac_Frost
    @Zac_Frost 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    I'd say it wasn't a retcon. Quincy Zangetsu always used Hollow Zangetsu to train Ichigo on how to use his powers. The Hollow also displayed instant mastery over how to fight using his blade, and came up with creative ways to use his powers that Ichigo himself said he'd never thought of.
    Hollow Zangetsu even says during the Vizard training "All you ever do is copy how I fight!" dropping another subtle hint, as Soul Reapers instinctively or consciously copy their Zanpakuto's fighting styles, as that's how they're meant to be used.
    There's also Hollow Zangetsu coming to Ichigo's aid whenever things got bleak.
    And my favorite small detail is how Hollow Zangetsu speaks to Ichigo. His methods may be a bit extra, but he always shows Ichigo proper respect when speaking to him, calling him by name, or calling him "King," or "Partner."
    He even introduced himself outright saying Ichigo should know him quite well in their first meeting.
    Even the end of his Bankai's hilt has a Chain of Fate, hinting that his powers are of Hollow origin.
    The signs were there. Anyone saying it was a retcon just didn't read them lol.

  • @svenjra
    @svenjra 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Not a retcon. When the old man tried to introduce himself to Ichigo when they first met, his name was censored. The length of the censor bar doesn't match the length of the characters of Zangetsu. Furthermore, the last syllable of the censored name was shown, which was "ha", Zangetsu doesn't have a ha in it, Yuhabaha on the other hand ends with ha. Then there's White repeatedly screaming he's Zangetsu while the old man never referred to himself as Zangetsu.
    Side note, Ichigo has a blanket with Quincy patterns. Dude was foreshadowed to be a Quincy before he even invaded soul society.

  • @manuelacosta9463
    @manuelacosta9463 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    In the end Ichigo's epic hybrid power enabled him to save the worlds, in the process he defeated and surpassed some of the strongest players and took his mentors by surprise as well. Ironic that his power also nearly resulted in a bleak outcome for him too, thus showing the perils of obtaining said power.

  • @thelettucebarrel7784
    @thelettucebarrel7784 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Kubo did NOT plan that shit out lmao.

  • @kelvinallen9327
    @kelvinallen9327 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    Not only is the name in black ink.
    You can also see streams of black ink on each side of the black bar. Like its been wrapped up or sealed in black ink. 👍

    • @Hymn_
      @Hymn_ 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      and old man zangetsu only refer himself as zangetsu at certain occasions. unlike white that always calls himself zangetsu

  • @animeskits1019
    @animeskits1019 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    There is also 1 good point in soul society arc when ichigo goes bankai for first time vs byakuya, byakuya says how is he releasing this much spiritual pressure as he is a ....

  • @dranzerbankai7660
    @dranzerbankai7660 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +9

    It wasn't a retcon watch episode 19 of Bleach in Japanese dub

  • @loomiez6802
    @loomiez6802 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    i can imagine back then whenever Ichigo would refer to old man as Zangetsu. He'd be like, "Who? Oh yeah, me."

  • @shueibdahir
    @shueibdahir 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    You seem to forget something. Zangetsu is both the old man and white together working in tandem hence the dual swords. There is no zangetsu without the old man

    • @__Kumo
      @__Kumo  3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      That's true however still.. white is the true manifestation of ichigos soul reaper powers

  • @PROdotes
    @PROdotes 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Or... he's good at keeping notes and decided to add it all later cause it fits with the lore..
    But it's prolly a bit of both... a bit of planning ahead, and a bit of "this could be cool, can i make it fit?"

  • @therealmonke561
    @therealmonke561 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    it isn't because theres loads of foreshadows and hints pointing that white was the actual zangetsu and that old man zangetsu was yhwach

  • @liquid228
    @liquid228 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Kubo already said that if reader doesn't understand situp there's no point in foreshadowing

    • @luffys_
      @luffys_ 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      kubo said he sets diffrrent levels of Foreshadowings, one that most ppl can find then one less ppl find and then some that are even harder to get.

    • @liquid228
      @liquid228 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @luffys_ "it was revealed to me in a dream"

  • @hollowify_tensa_zangetsu
    @hollowify_tensa_zangetsu 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    My favorite part is OMZ telling ichigo while falling in his inner world "shinnigami rulebover MANY spiritual entities " which is ichigo true power ability the use of many n kinds of reiatsu mainly hollow and quincy

  • @Ramixq
    @Ramixq 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

    Maybe thats me being paranoic, but I rewatched Bleach recently and in episode when we first met 'zangetsu' when he tries to say his name its got distorted, but still its sound more like Yhwach, than Zangetsu for me, well its may be me hearing things that I want to hear

    • @Takezo_Shinmen7
      @Takezo_Shinmen7 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

      If I remember correctly, in the anime he was supposed to said "Juha Baha" because in the subtitle it's write "ha" at the end of what he wanted to say. But the distortion in the anime represents the black ink of Ichibei in the manga.

  • @Hc2p3n4t4rp
    @Hc2p3n4t4rp 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    At best, I assumed White and OMZ where 2 sets of powers within Ichigo, so the moment Oetsu said White was made similar to how Asauchis are made then it became clear White was the Shinigami part and also why Ulqiorra said his Getsuga felt similar to a Cero, cause his Shinigami powers are hollow in nature, thus only 1 question remained, who was OMZ

    • @__Kumo
      @__Kumo  14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      His Quincy power manifestation

  • @AstralLaVista
    @AstralLaVista 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Episode 1!!! I didn't expect a cut that deep 😅

  • @soulman9018
    @soulman9018 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    Or it could be that Yhwach really did died and was only able to recover himself after 999 years of being sealed away likely by his own people in fact the quincy peom heavily implied this. given it took nine hundred for him to regain his pulse, 90 years to regain his mind and nine years to regain his power. not only that but before he even recovered his full power people were able to say his name without any problems.
    And as for why people think Ichigo being a quincy is retcon...well it also has a lot to due with the fact that a lot of information about the quincies and even Ichibei and his own powers only revealed themselves until the final arc.
    Before then there was very little foreshadowing that Ichigo was a quincy. let alone the information that Ichbei being the one who first prevent his quincy power from speaking his rea name.

    • @__Kumo
      @__Kumo  7 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      1- it was never implied that yuha actually died and got saved , according to mayuri yamamoto couldnt actually kill him
      2- not enough foreshadowing? i barely scratched the surface in this video and it is already enough to prove there was indeed enough foreshadowing
      3- there is a difference between other people saying yuhas name and a part of his soul saying it , remember when ichibei renamed him to a black ant yuha couldnt utter his name up until he stripped the ink off of himself while ichibei called him "yhwach or the one that was called yhwach" it isnt fully explained why this happens but anyways you are wrong

    • @soulman9018
      @soulman9018 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@__Kumo
      It is literal stated in the quincy poem that Yhwach would regain his heart beat in nine hundred years and it was stated that his almighty would sealed away until his death and after his fight with Yamamoto the left arm of the soul king Pernida Parnkgjas is shown to be separated from Yhwach.
      Nevermind it is made clear in the manga that almighty cannot revive Yhwach from death unless it is already activated. Otherwise neither Ichibei or Yamamoto would be that confident in killing Yhwach and Yhwach himself wouldn't mock Ichigo for wasting his chance to kill him when he didn't active the almighty in their third fight after he absorbed the soul king.
      Or the fact when Mayuri stated that Yamamoto failed to kill Yhwach and blamed Yammoto for it. I was not because it was impossible for Yamammoto to do so but rather because Yamamoto failed to finish Yhwach off and made sure he was dead a thousand years ago.
      I said there was little foreshadowing not that were wasn't enough of it.
      I mean Ichibei is the one who painted Yhwach's name black...so why wouldn't he be immune to his own powers?

    • @__Kumo
      @__Kumo  7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@soulman9018 1- the way yuha regained the almighty has nothing to do with him dying against the og gotei but because he got pernida (what sealed his eyes initially) out of his body
      2- again "little foreshadowing"? my video has just a tiny bit of the foreshadowing shown in the series and it is already enough how is the foreshadowing in the series little by any way shape or form

    • @soulman9018
      @soulman9018 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ 1. By literally dying as stated by Ichibei when he inserted Pernida into Yhwach’s body to begin with and is what the Quincy poem implied when it said about yhwach regaining his heart beat. Which you are continuing to ignore.
      3. Because the series withheld so much information about the Quincy’s and the royal guard until the final arc. Which is why so many see it as a retcon.
      Which I have already explain.

    • @__Kumo
      @__Kumo  7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@soulman9018 regaining his pulse and the almighty are two separate events , how are they correlated by any means.. the poem is talking about a prophecy where the sealed king comes back after 999 years
      The 9 year period for his powers is like his spiritual power and not the almighty
      Jugram states that if yuha used the almighty before fully regaining his power he wouldnt be able to control it hence why he willingly didnt use it
      You have deep misunderstanding of the series ,
      As for them not revealing much about Quincies up until the final arc.. how dare they explain stuff about a race in their own arc

  • @amam-r2p
    @amam-r2p 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    great video

  • @SeveredWorldLore
    @SeveredWorldLore 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I believe the concept was planned, though not the exact details of how. it's a case of a plot twist that has to be kept so ambiguous since it's somewhat of an endgame reveal. These situations tend to get a bit of backlash.

  • @calvinwilson3617
    @calvinwilson3617 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Something that has always seemed like a plothole/confusing to me is due to TYBW revelations.
    Is Zangetsu actually a Zanpakuto? Maybe you could do a video going in depth.
    Let me explain: In TYBW its revealed that all of the zanpakuto are created by Oetsu
    That would mean Zangetsu was never a physical zanpakuto.
    That leaves 3 possibilities for the source of his "zanpakuto" powers IMO. His hollow powers from white, his shinigami powers themselves, or from his quincy powers.
    Those "zanpakuto" abilities would then manifest physically either using ichigo's quincy powers (like quincies create their bows) or with his hoow powers (like hollows create their masks)
    Obviously when he gets the physical zanpakuto created by oetsu we call that his true zanpakuto, but how can the original even be a "zanpakuto" and were his shikai/bankai merely quincy imitations of the shinigami shikai/bankai

    • @kevinappleman8521
      @kevinappleman8521 วันที่ผ่านมา

      White was the asuchi. Oetsu states that when Azien created white, it was with a very similar method to how he makes asuchi. I theorize the only difference being, Aizen used a hollowfied soul as the base, whereas Oetsu doesn't. This caused white to be, well, white. When he attempted to bond with Misaki (Aizen uses the word "metastasized" to Misaki) the fundamental hollowistic nature acted as a poison to her quincy soul, causing the soul suicide that needed to be linked to Issin to survive.
      So ichigo was born with white being passed down within his soul, with white still basically being a hollow asuchi.

  • @erikteixeira3607
    @erikteixeira3607 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    "I AM ZANGETSU"

  • @ericmay560
    @ericmay560 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    How does the merged form of zangetsu when ichigo trains in the precipice world work?

  • @StefiStarlite
    @StefiStarlite 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Another giveaway was Ichigo being able to complete destroy the spirit particles that were binding Rukia to her executioner pillar during the Soul Society Infiltration arc - something a zanpakuto should not have been able to do given that Soul Reapers cleanse spirit particles versus obliterating them like Quincy power typically does.
    While I feel that Kubo could have better executed the overall story, he definitely had things planned and new how to foreshadow.

    • @Hymn_
      @Hymn_ 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      he also absorbed 100% of rukia's shinigami power, despite her planning to only give 50% of it.

    • @Kentavr_Mura
      @Kentavr_Mura 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Destroying the scaffold and stopping the firebird has nothing to do with Ichigo being a quincy. Kubo just wanted to show kurosaki's increased strength.

    • @Kentavr_Mura
      @Kentavr_Mura 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Hymn_ Has nothing to do with Ichigo being a quincy, too. This was due to the huge volume of his reiatsu vessel.

  • @hollowify_tensa_zangetsu
    @hollowify_tensa_zangetsu 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    They like to say that it is...just so gear 5 can not be.

  • @ion_force
    @ion_force 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    calling his bedsheet a quincy cross is really a stretch my guy

    • @__Kumo
      @__Kumo  7 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      It really isnt.. in the end of the ss arc uryu weaved them clothes that had the same cross and he explicitly states that it is the Quincy cross

    • @b-d9099
      @b-d9099 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      That was in the same chapter where Ichigo absorved all of Rukia's power, when he was only supposed to take half of it, when only quincies can absorb reishi

    • @blacktack7918
      @blacktack7918 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@__Kumo It really is because Quincy crosses aren't just shaped like a normal cross, it's specifically shaped like the christian cross that Jesus Christ, son of God, was nailed to, which tracks considering Yhwach, king of the Quincies, is also the son of Adnyeus, the Soul King, god of the bleach universe, making Yhwach biblical figure akin to Jesus. With that context, the Christian cross being the symbol of the Quincies serves as symbolism for their inspiration.
      The cross on Ichigo's blanket IN THE ANIME is not a Christian cross, it's just a regular cross since the lines intersect at the middle, not near the top of the vertical line like a Christian cross. If it did, then yeah, I could see why some people would think it's possible foreshadowing. That is, if Ichigo's blanket IN THE MANGA also had the cross. Here's the thing though, it didn't. Ichigo's blanket doesn't have anything on it. not shapes, images, patterns, nothing. It's as plain as can be. which means that according the manga, Ichigo's bed does not serve as a piece of foreshadowing. Honestly, even if the blanket in the manga had the cross, it would be a stretch to consider it foreshadowing. I mean just look at it, it's a basic cross with no Quincy imagery whatsoever. If it at least had the circle around the intersection like the actual Quincy crosses then yeah, that would be good enough, but we don't even get that, so all those claims of Ichigo's blanket hinting at his Quincy heritage just stink of hindsight bias, which is pretty prevalent in a lot of bleach videos talking about the foreshadowing in the story.
      I don't know why you decided to give the anime (The adaptation) precedence over the manga (The source material) for this point but it's asinine. It's best to stick to the manga as it's more faithful to Kubo's authorial intent at the time of writing, thereby making it easier to gauge whether he planned certain story elements or not. Using outside sources like the light novels or Klub Outside to explain certain elements and inconsistencies is indicative of poor storytelling because if any of that information was important It should've been addressed by the main story to begin with. Supplemental material is for non-essential information only.

    • @VENG-k1d
      @VENG-k1d 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Uryu sews the same thing on Kon

  • @joeyhughley7592
    @joeyhughley7592 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    if you read the manga the first few chapters show that ichigo and uryus dad know each other already and have a history with masaki and clealry uryu was always a quincy, so how would ichigos dad know a quincy and refer to masaki from the begining if this wasnt all planned out before hand,

    • @Kentavr_Mura
      @Kentavr_Mura 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      this doesn't prove anything.
      kubo could have write a dozen more stories about "dads", can you comprehend that?

    • @joeyhughley7592
      @joeyhughley7592 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@Kentavr_Mura can you comprehend the fact that its all the evidence combined or are you just illiterate?
      1.why else would isshin know ryuken who was a confirmed quincy at the time isshin this was in episode 4 of the manga,
      and isshin disscused ryuken on a personal level as if he owed him a serious favor
      so clearly kubo had the idea of ichigos mother being a quincy and isshin being a soul reaper from the start of the manga why else would isshin be involed deeply with a quincy,
      2, when we first found out isshin was a soul reaper he litterally told ichigo he would tell him everything when he was ready to know which was 2 arcs before tybw even happend so clearly kubo set it up
      3. in the soul scociety arc in the very begging it was forshadowed, isshin is from the shiba clan and kaien
      was a shiba who looks like ichigo and ukitake and byakuya said he looked like kaien , well now we know why because there actually related,
      on top of the countless instances of white being the first one to use getsuga in bankai and calling himself zangetsu over and over,
      and litterally like omz said everytime ichigo needed help he called on white because omz was not the source of his soul reaper powers , also the desing of ichigos bed since the start of the series has always been a quincy cross , subtle but thats how kubo like to forshadow

    • @Kentavr_Mura
      @Kentavr_Mura 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@joeyhughley7592 read my first commentary until you comprehend.

  • @omarw007
    @omarw007 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Honestly i do not think that itvis a retcom however your explanation being why do ishin en urahara know eachother feals weak to say the least.
    Ishin was a captain. Maybe not at the same time as urahara but he has to have been in the gotei during uraharas teniour as a captain and may have cross paths eapecially since ishin is also from one of the royal families so not impossible that they have crossed pathts

  • @mygameracademia
    @mygameracademia 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

    This is great analysis, you deserve more subs

  • @BrickFlairMMA
    @BrickFlairMMA 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    YESSSSSSSS! Clearly! You can’t foreshadow things that havnt been created or conceptualised yret! Ffs u nerds are ridiculous

    • @tinfoilslacks3750
      @tinfoilslacks3750 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      You really think just because Kubo hadn't written the chapter yet so he hadn't conceived of the future events in any capacity? You realize that it's pretty typical of many authors to write, or at least conceive, of the beginning and ending of a work first and fill in the middle? Or that Kubo's stated on Klub Outside that TYBW was conceptualized the same time the substitute shinigami arc was, and that it was the arrancar arc which ballooned past its original planned size?

  • @6xXx_Jack_xXx9
    @6xXx_Jack_xXx9 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Not much to do with this video but in my opinion the old man should have had his own name not Yhwach's.
    But i guess if all human quincies get their power from Yhwach it makes sense.

  • @343JustMe
    @343JustMe 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    No it wasn't, there were a myriad of subtleties foreshadowing it

  • @ZeroX7649
    @ZeroX7649 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    White being the real Zangetsu was never a retcon. Ywach probably wasn't a retcon either. Masaki being a Quincy? Yeah that reeks of retcon.

    • @Zac_Frost
      @Zac_Frost 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Not really. Aizen told Ichigo in their fight, "You aren't an ordinary human."
      That sets up Isshin being special, but it also leaves the door wide open for Masaki to be different, too.
      Also, Ichigo having natural high Spirit Energy without active Soul Reaper powers, strong enough to break out of Kido, isn't something even regular spiritually aware humans can do. Only a Fullbring user or Quincy could manage that.

    • @sigfreed1737
      @sigfreed1737 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      masaki being a quincy is hit or miss for me but old man zangetsu not being ichigos soul reaper powers is definitely a retcon

    • @calvinwilson3617
      @calvinwilson3617 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Misaki always had to be a quincy, there was no other way for ichigo to be a quincy.
      We just never understood why she died, especially if she was a quincy. But that was fleshed out over the story

  • @hydro6582
    @hydro6582 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Anyone who genuinely attempts to argue that this was a retcon either has never read the series, or is genuinely a moron, because in reading the series, it becomes painfully obvious Kubo had planned this

    • @sigfreed1737
      @sigfreed1737 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      I think it's a retcon and if you're willing to hear it i have an argument.

    • @hydro6582
      @hydro6582 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@sigfreed1737 Why do you believe it a retcon?

    • @sigfreed1737
      @sigfreed1737 4 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@hydro6582 its kinda cringe to do this but in my latest video there is a chapter/timestamp called zangetsu the ultimate retcon where I think I proved pretty definitively if i do say so myself that Ichigo's inner sprits were retconned. its cool if you don't have the time but this stuff has been a big lie perpetuated by some bleach fans for awhile now. Kumo is 100% wrong about this and he's being disingenuous

    • @hydro6582
      @hydro6582 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@sigfreed1737 Your entire channel is hating on Bleach...I wouldn't call that objective whatsoever, gonna be honest

    • @sigfreed1737
      @sigfreed1737 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@hydro6582 so you still think it wasn't a retcon?

  • @Kentavr_Mura
    @Kentavr_Mura 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

    с кровати особо поржал

  • @The_Emperor823
    @The_Emperor823 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Man, I wonder if there’s an arc where White was constantly yelling about how he was the real Zangetsu

  • @Guts124
    @Guts124 11 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Thank you for this video. All these newcomers seem to not know how to read.

  • @snowarmth
    @snowarmth 7 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Ninth comment.

  • @Mavuika_Gyaru
    @Mavuika_Gyaru 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    What retcon? Never has old man zangetsu ever say that he's zangetsu. Meanwhile white straight up said "I am zangetsu". White showed Ichigo how to use his powers