we acually have a guy at work who is deaf, and he goes on his sence of vibration. whenever i do some heavy cuts he often pops by and asks if everything is ok, because he felt something in the floor and it wasnt his machines. Very inspiring!
I’m so glad I watched this! My boss always urges us to drop the feed rate right away whenever this happens. Making it higher goes against logic, but the way it has been explained makes so much sense. Definitely checking this out on Monday at work!
GREAT VIDEO!!! To all the young or green machinists out there, this is the best video I can reccomend! I've been a manual and cnc machinist going on 20 years and I have seen guys with twice as much experience slow a feedrate down to 10% just to try to quiet a tool during a slotting pass. All you are doing is lowering your productivity and increasing wear and strain on the tool and the machine itself. There's a saying, "let the tool do the work". This is applicable in machining as well. Carbide is very ridged and doesn't flex like high speed steel tools will. You have to keep constant pressure on that tool and make it do the cutting. Don't rely on massive rpm to push the material away from the cutter. I consider my sense of touch to be far superior to my hearing when it comes sensing what my machines are doing and I love to see a programmer's face when I bring him a program back from the machine to overwrite his generic posted original. To be able to show him part that he programmed, versus one I have optimized it priceless. To then go back and give him the runtimes for both and to be able to have the difference in front of you is hard to dispute or ignore. It is an art and I truly love the art that I do! Keep up the great works guys!
I'll have my head against the door listening to drills and "that one guy" in the shop will be like "i can hear my drills just fine" Yeah Jon, so can the rest of the shop... that's why i have to struggle to hear mine lol
I really enjoy the way this guy explains things. I would kill to have mentors like Titan, and this guy who really explain things in depth and technical vs “I’ve done it this way for 30 years and if you try something different you’re wrong”. Super informative and helpful. I’ve been putting notes in my phone of tips and things I’ve picked up on from this channel. Thanks a ton!
We have 3 very large machines that we use for various large jobs. One we've had since before I started there and we do a lot of line boring and milling on mining equipment parts. You can see everything but you can't hear anything quick enough because the machine itself is so loud. We use feel exclusively to detect chatter quickly. We don't touch the parts but instead the handle on our control panel because it reacts to the vibration before anything else around. Kind of sounds crazy but it is dead nuts accurate!
A few VISUAL sensory methods that I use constantly as a machinist: Never turn a BLIND EYE to the importance of VISUAL sensory! WATCH your spindle and axis load meters to gather data. LOOKING at the physical chips that you are producing from the angle of engagement. LOOK with your EYES for chip breakage, color, thickness, evacuation, engagement, etc... In production you examine the part right off the machine and VISUALLY look at all surface profiles of the part. Change in surface finishes including, corner radii, dwell marks, chatter, chamfer size, etc are critical! You even can catch a dimensional adjustment before measuring. Instead of talking to your coworker look with your eyes not your mouth. Fast track to becoming the under desk operator.
One of the best machinists I've ever come across was a young man who was deaf. One time I was programming a gear case housing made out of T-356 sandcast aluminum. Anyone who's ever worked with this material knows that it can be full of surprises..... Sand inclusions that can wear down or destroy a tool in a matter of seconds. This deaf machinist would lay his hands up against the machine and he could tell about the vibrations how the cutters inside we're doing. There were times when I almost panicked because the sound did not sound right.... But he would reassure me that the cut was good (and he was right!). It's true that when you've got tons of coolant flooding your cutters and work piece..... Looking at what's happening is almost useless. You can usually tell by the vibration and the sound..... And even the smell (if something's burning that shouldn't).... What's really going on inside under all that coolant. Many are the day that I gave thanks to God that I had that wonderful Machinist helping me work through the debug process on new programs!
Some materials like to squeal when being roughed, such as EN30B. As for senses I have always leaned up against a machine I am running. Might not be looking directly at the operation but I can hear and feel whats going on. Seen lots of 'cnc machinists' that will lean/sit on their benches and just watch through the coolant covered window.
Hearing is a faster response to the brain for reaction than eye sight. I like how fast these new machines run but i love my 1980’s machines for their rigidity.
Had a tool (1/2” drill bit) make a very brief but unusual sound, I noticed it but ignored it…..it was a pre drill hole for a much larger 1 7/16 drill bit. Sure enough, the smaller bit was dull and didn’t make the proper cut, therefore dulling the 1 7/16 drill bit. Had to replace both tools and my part became scrap. Lesson learned on my part.
I stated this same thing at a couple of other shops. We had heavy lift trucks and clatter constantly driving by. I use my ears as much if not more than my eyes. So frustrating when those that don't understand machining and what it takes are running things. Kudos to guys like Titan and his team for shining the light on the nuances and science of machining.
yeah..... try being directly under a belt sanding robot with old servos (actual servos, not the closed feedback motors in modern ones) and right next to its dust solidifier i didnt learn anything about sound or vibration that summer (aside from peltor being the best hearing protection).
i very often use my earplugs to play music at work but as soon something is about to run for the first time i always pause the music and close my eyes (after i know the height and stuff is going to be perfect ofc) while holding the door handle my co workers often think im falling asleep lmao
I'm a maintainence tech & I'm always telling the operators at the shop (wood processing/ fabrication) to listen to their machines for irregularities. Earlier this year the company did a hearing test evaluation for everyone & turns out everyone but me & the shop foreman have notable hearing damage. After finding that out, I still suggest they listen but know the reality that they can't hear many frequencies because for a long time they were too relaxed & didn't take care of their hearing.
As someone who builds his own DIY CnC rigs, smell is key for electrical concerns. Whether spindle, stepper or wiring/power supply, we all aren't running monoliths in a wide open warehouse after. Crashing your machine is only the worst case, if you've never seen one go up in flames. This of course is second only so sound, especially for rigs running semi-unsupervised.
It’s hard to describe but I always tell new guys ‘you can feel when it’s going wrong. She’ll tell you she don’t like the way you doin it. Listen, feel.’ Now certain material will always ‘talk’, I’m talking tubes and long thin flats… these are a pain in the ears.
Attest to this, using an end mill free hand with a, pay attention you will hear and feel everything, dose not mater if your a meat bag on a commuter plane or opening your own fridge.
First thing I always look for when I look at a drawing is special notes and/or considerations that might change the way I need to interpret the drawing. I work in plastics and on some of our drawings we have notes that indicate certain features must be machined to a different specification than what the drawing call out for i.e. machine 'x' feature to 'y' dimension for second op and so on.
I always have my fingers on the window when sending the thread cutter into the hole the first time. If it breaks in the beginning, and you don’t stop it because you didn’t hear it, that can be nasty. And when it becomes more audible it’s too late.
i do this alot with my manual mill... i use carbide on everything so getting the speeds right is pretty important for me otherwise im going to break a expensive tool
When i started my apprenticeship, i used to always have a hand on the lil NC mill i worked on, but i didn't really know why. Maybe i wanted to make sure it didn't vibrate too much, but then i didn't know when it was too much, so id run pretty slow.
This week a new coworker of me was operating a program with a machine 2 workplaces beside of me and I was milling toolsteel. But i was able to hear that one of the cuttingplates of his tool was broken. He didn't beleave me until i told him to stop and check. His face was so funny when he turned back to me after the observe. Sorry for grammatical errors, I am german.
I thought i was crazy for having a feeling or a need to have my hand or some part of my body touching the machine or else nothing feels right and ill panic like a mf
The hard shills are the feed and speed calculations for the tool / material. The soft skills are the feel and sound of a good cutting combination. It cannot be taught its a learning from observation of all your senses and time taking it all in to your soul .
The hard skills comment reminded me of when I was going to teach a friend how to use a regular mill. I realised that I had no way to explain how to judge what speed or feed rate to use depending on the cutter size, material or depth of cut. Obviously I had learned through years of experience--never using charts or calculations to get the best results.
I was watching this clip and at the full slot point a friend ask me, it that wood being cut and I was like chill bro this is metal work, ok, just kind like smile. The eye and mind.
@@willyharris4199 @Kane Keylewer there is nothing I am struggling to communicate well about. I think I put it well that the guy was surprised at that slot and thought it was wood work, on the other hand I said too some process are too great to amuse other people though to them they are simple seeing as well confusing to understand.
shop used to have to deal with that a bunch, all i can say is that flank cutting helps tremendously and allows us to run much higher RPM than we otherwise could with the same setup
The most surprising thing I've tasted was loctite. It has a similar taste to artificial sweetener. Don't go tasting the loctite tho guys it can't be good for you.
Eyes and ears can be to late. On a big closed cell cnc mill.. turn around and put your tailbone on the door... trust me your ass will tell ya that an insert is loosing a corner long before your ears hear it or eyes see it.
I gotta say, just about every person I’ve ever known keeps their feet on the ground while machining… that was a pretty dumb statement I gotta say….. 😂🤣
we acually have a guy at work who is deaf, and he goes on his sence of vibration. whenever i do some heavy cuts he often pops by and asks if everything is ok, because he felt something in the floor and it wasnt his machines. Very inspiring!
That's very cool
Please keep an eye on him, he won't hear screaming in an emergency though!
@@hiemabedrog
dont worry, he carries a "beeper" for emergencies.
@@balooc2 like one of those hotel worker alert buttons? Or like life alert?
I will very often put my hands on the machine to feel for vibration.
I’m so glad I watched this! My boss always urges us to drop the feed rate right away whenever this happens. Making it higher goes against logic, but the way it has been explained makes so much sense. Definitely checking this out on Monday at work!
Yep. We aren't just leaning against the machine because we're lazy.
🤣
GREAT VIDEO!!! To all the young or green machinists out there, this is the best video I can reccomend! I've been a manual and cnc machinist going on 20 years and I have seen guys with twice as much experience slow a feedrate down to 10% just to try to quiet a tool during a slotting pass. All you are doing is lowering your productivity and increasing wear and strain on the tool and the machine itself. There's a saying, "let the tool do the work". This is applicable in machining as well. Carbide is very ridged and doesn't flex like high speed steel tools will. You have to keep constant pressure on that tool and make it do the cutting. Don't rely on massive rpm to push the material away from the cutter.
I consider my sense of touch to be far superior to my hearing when it comes sensing what my machines are doing and I love to see a programmer's face when I bring him a program back from the machine to overwrite his generic posted original. To be able to show him part that he programmed, versus one I have optimized it priceless. To then go back and give him the runtimes for both and to be able to have the difference in front of you is hard to dispute or ignore. It is an art and I truly love the art that I do!
Keep up the great works guys!
I'll have my head against the door listening to drills and "that one guy" in the shop will be like "i can hear my drills just fine" Yeah Jon, so can the rest of the shop... that's why i have to struggle to hear mine lol
ahahhha this got me
I almost spit my coffee out. 🤣
Mind ya business Jon 🤣🤣🤣
Indexable drills are soooo loud ah!
Barry U hit the nail on the head
Doing as you say a machinist can ZONE in those skills it takes TIME
Titan keep on keeping on
This was the first piece of advice I received in my machining trade journey, and I still carry this to this day 10 yrs later.
Really small tools can be frustrating for this reason bc you may not even hear the tool break
Even with noise canceling earbuds in I can feel and hear when a problem is going to happen and when an end mill is getting dull.
I really enjoy the way this guy explains things. I would kill to have mentors like Titan, and this guy who really explain things in depth and technical vs “I’ve done it this way for 30 years and if you try something different you’re wrong”. Super informative and helpful. I’ve been putting notes in my phone of tips and things I’ve picked up on from this channel. Thanks a ton!
I can differentiate between grades of steel and proper or improper cutting speeds by smell.
We have 3 very large machines that we use for various large jobs. One we've had since before I started there and we do a lot of line boring and milling on mining equipment parts. You can see everything but you can't hear anything quick enough because the machine itself is so loud. We use feel exclusively to detect chatter quickly. We don't touch the parts but instead the handle on our control panel because it reacts to the vibration before anything else around. Kind of sounds crazy but it is dead nuts accurate!
A few VISUAL sensory methods that I use constantly as a machinist: Never turn a BLIND EYE to the importance of VISUAL sensory! WATCH your spindle and axis load meters to gather data. LOOKING at the physical chips that you are producing from the angle of engagement. LOOK with your EYES for chip breakage, color, thickness, evacuation, engagement, etc... In production you examine the part right off the machine and VISUALLY look at all surface profiles of the part. Change in surface finishes including, corner radii, dwell marks, chatter, chamfer size, etc are critical! You even can catch a dimensional adjustment before measuring. Instead of talking to your coworker look with your eyes not your mouth. Fast track to becoming the under desk operator.
One of the best machinists I've ever come across was a young man who was deaf. One time I was programming a gear case housing made out of T-356 sandcast aluminum. Anyone who's ever worked with this material knows that it can be full of surprises..... Sand inclusions that can wear down or destroy a tool in a matter of seconds. This deaf machinist would lay his hands up against the machine and he could tell about the vibrations how the cutters inside we're doing. There were times when I almost panicked because the sound did not sound right.... But he would reassure me that the cut was good (and he was right!).
It's true that when you've got tons of coolant flooding your cutters and work piece..... Looking at what's happening is almost useless. You can usually tell by the vibration and the sound..... And even the smell (if something's burning that shouldn't).... What's really going on inside under all that coolant.
Many are the day that I gave thanks to God that I had that wonderful Machinist helping me work through the debug process on new programs!
Always having one hand on door handle when changing something! Before you see/hear vibration, you can feel it...
Great video! Too bad there weren't any sound samples of such "popping or grinding" noises. Although, I completely get why
Some materials like to squeal when being roughed, such as EN30B. As for senses I have always leaned up against a machine I am running. Might not be looking directly at the operation but I can hear and feel whats going on. Seen lots of 'cnc machinists' that will lean/sit on their benches and just watch through the coolant covered window.
Hearing is a faster response to the brain for reaction than eye sight. I like how fast these new machines run but i love my 1980’s machines for their rigidity.
After the first year I learned to play it all be ear for cutting. Also chip formation in the hopper and vibrating door have been helpful.
Had a tool (1/2” drill bit) make a very brief but unusual sound, I noticed it but ignored it…..it was a pre drill hole for a much larger 1 7/16 drill bit. Sure enough, the smaller bit was dull and didn’t make the proper cut, therefore dulling the 1 7/16 drill bit. Had to replace both tools and my part became scrap. Lesson learned on my part.
I stated this same thing at a couple of other shops. We had heavy lift trucks and clatter constantly driving by. I use my ears as much if not more than my eyes. So frustrating when those that don't understand machining and what it takes are running things. Kudos to guys like Titan and his team for shining the light on the nuances and science of machining.
yeah..... try being directly under a belt sanding robot with old servos (actual servos, not the closed feedback motors in modern ones) and right next to its dust solidifier
i didnt learn anything about sound or vibration that summer (aside from peltor being the best hearing protection).
Sound, sight and vibration are always the tells. Along with part finish of course who want's visible deflection and or chatter.
i very often use my earplugs to play music at work but as soon something is about to run for the first time i always pause the music and close my eyes (after i know the height and stuff is going to be perfect ofc) while holding the door handle
my co workers often think im falling asleep lmao
I'm a maintainence tech & I'm always telling the operators at the shop (wood processing/ fabrication) to listen to their machines for irregularities. Earlier this year the company did a hearing test evaluation for everyone & turns out everyone but me & the shop foreman have notable hearing damage. After finding that out, I still suggest they listen but know the reality that they can't hear many frequencies because for a long time they were too relaxed & didn't take care of their hearing.
As someone who builds his own DIY CnC rigs, smell is key for electrical concerns.
Whether spindle, stepper or wiring/power supply, we all aren't running monoliths in a wide open warehouse after.
Crashing your machine is only the worst case, if you've never seen one go up in flames.
This of course is second only so sound, especially for rigs running semi-unsupervised.
It’s hard to describe but I always tell new guys ‘you can feel when it’s going wrong. She’ll tell you she don’t like the way you doin it. Listen, feel.’
Now certain material will always ‘talk’, I’m talking tubes and long thin flats… these are a pain in the ears.
Attest to this, using an end mill free hand with a, pay attention you will hear and feel everything, dose not mater if your a meat bag on a commuter plane or opening your own fridge.
i was taught to feel for a burr by not looking at the part.
I've found the the sound of a cut is where I get the most of my information. Feel is really good. Eyes should be one of the last senses involved.
I always lean against my machine while listening also... Always feeling for stuff going on
First thing I always look for when I look at a drawing is special notes and/or considerations that might change the way I need to interpret the drawing. I work in plastics and on some of our drawings we have notes that indicate certain features must be machined to a different specification than what the drawing call out for i.e. machine 'x' feature to 'y' dimension for second op and so on.
I always have my fingers on the window when sending the thread cutter into the hole the first time. If it breaks in the beginning, and you don’t stop it because you didn’t hear it, that can be nasty. And when it becomes more audible it’s too late.
I've been able to stop a part from getting destroyed just by feeling the vibration through the concrete with my feet
i do this alot with my manual mill... i use carbide on everything so getting the speeds right is pretty important for me otherwise im going to break a expensive tool
I listened to my machine All the time and I hear stuff all the time and make adjustments and I'm really close to my machine controller
my previous boss would ALWAYS question why i have my hand on the machine door
Another great video!
Keep going this way 👏
"Become one with the machine." Cheers :)
When i started my apprenticeship, i used to always have a hand on the lil NC mill i worked on, but i didn't really know why. Maybe i wanted to make sure it didn't vibrate too much, but then i didn't know when it was too much, so id run pretty slow.
This week a new coworker of me was operating a program with a machine 2 workplaces beside of me and I was milling toolsteel. But i was able to hear that one of the cuttingplates of his tool was broken. He didn't beleave me until i told him to stop and check. His face was so funny when he turned back to me after the observe. Sorry for grammatical errors, I am german.
Would this kind of pressure increase wear on servo motors?
These machines should have audio and vibration sensors and AI algorithms to provide feedback. This should now be a request to equipment manufacturers.
my boss has phd in sound and vibration, although he doesn't know anything about machining he has ideas which tend to help
Awesome!
Yee, I have an accelerometer above the spindle housing that lets me know if there's some undue JANK afoot
I thought i was crazy for having a feeling or a need to have my hand or some part of my body touching the machine or else nothing feels right and ill panic like a mf
The hard shills are the feed and speed calculations for the tool / material. The soft skills are the feel and sound of a good cutting combination. It cannot be taught its a learning from observation of all your senses and time taking it all in to your soul .
The hard skills comment reminded me of when I was going to teach a friend how to use a regular mill. I realised that I had no way to explain how to judge what speed or feed rate to use depending on the cutter size, material or depth of cut. Obviously I had learned through years of experience--never using charts or calculations to get the best results.
I was watching this clip and at the full slot point a friend ask me, it that wood being cut and I was like chill bro this is metal work, ok, just kind like smile. The eye and mind.
Wat
@@kanekeylewer5704 when the process is great, even from others it is so simple and confusing.
@@berntinulkshredder ???? Are you okay
@@kanekeylewer5704 I don’t think his first language is English so he’s struggling to get his point across
@@willyharris4199 @Kane Keylewer there is nothing I am struggling to communicate well about. I think I put it well that the guy was surprised at that slot and thought it was wood work, on the other hand I said too some process are too great to amuse other people though to them they are simple seeing as well confusing to understand.
I would compare it to driving a car, if one sense is off something bad might happen.
There is a guy at work who always plays his music way to loud at the machine. You can't here any sound that comes from the machine. So annoying....
Nothing more scarier whenever you’re threading a part on the lathe and you start dealing with chatter .
shop used to have to deal with that a bunch, all i can say is that flank cutting helps tremendously and allows us to run much higher RPM than we otherwise could with the same setup
or you just cycle start and go to bathroom for 40min and surf the web
The most surprising thing I've tasted was loctite. It has a similar taste to artificial sweetener. Don't go tasting the loctite tho guys it can't be good for you.
Do you not open your third eye while machining?
Don't rule out sight totally though, it's 80% of your perception.
Narrator: “eyes are useless”… *proceeds to list hundreds of uses for vision*
Очень точно подмечено! Жаль, что не все начальники это понимают
Vibrations are killing.....
Always use ear and fingers to feel.....
Always laughed at...
Eyes and ears can be to late. On a big closed cell cnc mill.. turn around and put your tailbone on the door... trust me your ass will tell ya that an insert is loosing a corner long before your ears hear it or eyes see it.
That’s not completely correct!!! You should WATCH your chips!!! They tell you a lot 😉
👍
Use all senses and you're spitti senses too
I gotta say, just about every person I’ve ever known keeps their feet on the ground while machining… that was a pretty dumb statement I gotta say….. 😂🤣
But paying ATTENTION to what you FEEL in your feet ISNT dumb.
Bored Elon Musk: TeamViewer for machinists, but with a rumble pack.