Despi Reacts to "FFXIV is Hurting Its Veteran Players" By Misshapen Chair
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ธ.ค. 2024
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As a Monk main, while I do understand why they removed most of our postionals. To this day, I still subconsciously do them.
While there are some fights where I appreciate the change, I will still subconsciously do them because I saw Monk as more of a technical fighter and less brute force, and it kept me busy and always wanting to improve. So I do agree with Chair here.
Same. it's kinda burned in my brain
Only started maining Mnk during ShB release cuz GL4 gud, but yea, I can't -not- do them as well, it feels right. TFW you burn RoE during no aoe damage...
i still try to get positional because 8 years of doing it don't just go away
Not a monk main, but I did play a little bit and I also subconsciously do the positionals still xD
Same with managing agro, tanks holding agro has been a thing for so long in so many games that I find myself checking it every now and then even when I DPS.
Thank you for actually listening and adding your points to Chair's video. Most of the people in this comment section ignored his points and just complained.
Something to factor in I am sure many experienced this. DPS testing on a dummy is quite easy, the rotation for most jobs isn't that difficult. However, in practice in Savage content, I find that I will rarely hit peak dps. Mechanics are priority, so you will lose the rotation or uptime. What separates great players is their ability to optimize even in hard content. Because of this, FF14 does have a high skill ceiling, but only in those hard content.
That's what YoshiP trying to mittigate. He maybe try to encourage casuals to do savage, so that's why he slowely reduced the skill ceiling so that casual can enjoy the savage contents too, albeit with several floortanking.
The current main crux of the game for me is each job doesn't diverse in playstyles in itself. I know it's easier to balance this way, but it's disheartening when a patch/expansion changes an aspect of your favorite job so drastically it doesn't appeal to you anymore, but you don't have other playstyles to fall back into.
And this is what I had with DRK and DRG going from HW into SB.
Like Astrologian every single patch
Facts. Every job feels the same. No personality at all
Agreed, to the point where I don't play anymore. I was a bard main, but don't like the EW changes. Got no other job to fall back on, because no other job really interested me. I guess this is what it feels to be jobless, haha.
Thats the damn truth
I 100% agree with the difficulty observations. Going from DF to even extreme is a massive leap for a lot of players. They really need something between the story mode and extreme that's still DFable.
I beg to differ.
I used to think Extreme/Savage was a massive leap until I jumped into a group of "Fresh Blind" progress pug group. Even now I still don't know my optimal class rotation and best stat materia but all I did was do my best to have fun, learn and understand from each other's mistake.
And if you pay attention to the Normal mode raids phases, Extreme/ Savage both actually just use the same abilities but with 1 - 2 twists added ontop.
My suggestion is just try dive into it with an open mind and don't be scared.
And obviously join a "Fresh" group so you're all on the same boat.
@@nb_chu fresh group is not always open depending of the server you are onto.
for ages it's was asked to added a midcore content more open for allow people to move from story to extrem/savage. at one point extrem was the midcore content sadly some extrem now are as hard than savage and don't fill this spot anymore.
adding a content in form of savage dungeon at 4 will be the solution and was asked for veeeeery long, if i'm not wrong even while the 1st fanfest the question was asked about it.
plus adding another layer of content can serve to add more content and smooth the progression between casual and raider.
@@nb_chu Titania, Innocence, HadEx, Seat of Sacrifice Ex (good god...
@@beldhan7247 I must say that I am on the JP server and as an English speaker they are most certainly unwelcoming when it comes to learning together but most EN blind groups I've met there are really patient and cooperative. Which lead me to clear P3S.
Though it isn't a bad idea to fill something in between the difficulty but realistically just too much work for them to do so.
@@SubduedRadicalWhombocombos and incompetent tank/ healer? I don't see it as an issue unelss if you really lack communication and mostly patience.
I dislike the fact that people disband group after 2-3 fail attempts as a form of progress clearing and finds new people to replace as it literally is counter progressive.
I have cleared upto P3S with fresh random groups and has taken me more than 120x tries especially P3S and rarely have I seen replacement to our party members after 10x wipes to the same mechanic. Thus I must say it is the community mindset that might be the issue as I am in JP server whom are more willing to have the patience to teach and have fun together.
The job mechanics are what every player has to interact with, no matter their individual skill. Fight design is where you can design for various different skill levels. So from a design perspective, it makes sense to reduce the impact player skill has on the performance of a job by making certain aspects less complex. That then means that you can increase the difficulty of fights themselves as that is the one place where you have control over what kind of player interacts with it.
Keep in mind, the story has to be able to be played by almost everyone. That includes the individual job stories but also story dungeons, alliance raids, story trials and solo instances. And when you take a look at those, you can see that those have increased massively in complexity since hw/sb.
When designing content you want everyone to be able to see, you have to design around the bottom 20% of players in terms of skill. And those players absolutely need their job to be lower on the complexity spectrum if you want them to complete fights that are not literal target dummies.
We see this in arr/hw fight design, a lot of which are just target dummies. When they were designed, rotations were more complex so it makes sense (ofc many other factors to that as well).
Since then though the decision has been made to shift the complexity into the fights themselves instead and thus away from the jobs. Just compare any HW solo instance or story dungeon to any one in EW.
Now I'd argue that this shift in focus is a really good thing for the health of the game. You open it up for players with very little skill to enjoy but you're still able to keep very skilled ones engaged through making the bosses for those players harder and harder. Achieving both of those at the same time is incredibly difficult and in my personal opinion, they've nailed it.
Take three players:
-My 68 year old mother who plays for like 2h a week, has to read through what her abilities do again and again because she keeps forgetting and who can't move while clicking abilities at the same time.
-Me, raiding 5h a week in a semi-active static, currently on P3S, actively working on improving my gameplay but still making simple mistakes when in stressful situations like letting my dot fall off and not using some abilities right when they come off cd.
-Any player who cleared DSU at this point.
The fact that all of these people can enjoy the same game and play the same jobs all while everybody is challenged adequately is nothing short of a masterpiece in game design.
Ps: Sorry for the rant, just wanted to offer a perspective that many people might not consider. The game is designed for you but also for A LOT of other players, a lot of whom might play completely differently to you or to what's optimal. But a designer has to design for those as well.
Pss: Posted the same comment on chair's video but I think it can add to the conversation here as well.
Exactly what you have said. Any of FF14 veterans still remember steps of faith pre-nerf? Yeah majority of the casual players bitch and whine so hard on the official forum that it got nerf to what it is today. Dark Knight initial implementation? Yeah, players also complained "MP too difficult to maintain". At the end of the day SQEX is a company and they need players from casual to hardcore to be able to be enjoy at least 1 or 2 aspects of the game.
Granted I wasn't as skilled of a player back in HW but I can't see how you can say HW raids were targetdummy fights.
ShB and even EW are more targetedummy than HW with less complex jobs. Especially as a healer the experience is so much worse when fights deal considerably less damage vs the defensive kits you have available.
1st tier from EW as a healer I had to barely heal with GCD'S with Warrior and PLD as our tanks even when full crafted gear. And by the time our static was full bis ready for the ultimate you're basically just a 2 button dps.
atleast in the new ultimate I actually have to heal. but to get 1 fight every 1 year basically where healing actually gets complicated makes me resent it quite alot. Even now I've grown so used to not even have to look at the party's HP I sometimes let our tank die in the ultimate prog until I start to remember the moments the tank takes alot of damage due to autos or some other reason because the game teaches me to not care about their HP the whole of Savage.
Sure I see how this makes it easier for people to get into healing. But either make you need to actually heal if your dps is 1 spam and 1 dot or actually give me a bit to think about in the dps dealing department.
Quickly looking at the logs from the kills on 2nd week of savage tier I had cast 10 GCD heals of which 0 was single target, 3 were macro so dealing damage with the heal and still I had 40% overheal with just the oGCD heals (granted Star was mostly used to damage so that gives alot over heal, but that's because it has damage tied to it and there was no healing checks needing to plan its use other than use on cooldown)
@@Nikzzza sorry my bad, i should have made it more clear i meant casual content like story dungeons, trials and solo instances when talking about fights being like target dummies, not extremes/savages/ultimates.
Those are what the developers view as the skill floor that everyone has to be able to complete and said skill floor (the fights i mean) has risen since HW.
And on the topic of healing, i very much agree with you as I'm playing a healer myself. I'd definitely like to see more proper healing checks in savage. Maybe even get it to a point where like 40-60% of all my gcds during a fight are actual heals.
But that'd be a massive shift in design philosophy and even if the decision to go that route was made today, it'd take quite a long time to have implemented. One can hope though.
All story content can be cleared by randomly hitting buttons.
@@Dude_Its_Michael Exactly
4 man versions (with same difficulty level) of savage/ ultimate content. Just as rewarding and just as difficult as 8 man raids but for 4 people. Preferably totally different content instead of just adjusting current raids for 4 people. Not everyone who wants to do high level content can form an 8 people static. Expands options for everyone for high end content, makes it easier to form a group for high end content since you only need 4 people. I can only hope.
Would love to see that as well !
@@DesperiusFFXIV dungeons and 4 man content is so underutilized in this game in terms of high end/ hard core content. Hard core content is basically all about 8 man raids which obviously requires someone new and wanting to enter said content finding 7 more people in the same boat as he/ she is. I know a few who just gave up on entering hard core content even though they really really want to get into it simply because of the difficulty in finiding an 8 man group. Besides hard core 4 man content opens up a lot more creativity for the devs in terms of design and mechanics because things like usual off tanks and such concepts are not possible. This makes each individual's role more important which imo is a good thing if you are looking at hard core content.
@@xxKYTHExx yeah and actually finding 7 remotely competent people, particularly lately, is harder than finding a needle in a haystack... for the last eden tier holy crap i think i went thru like 11 statics? 3 of them never even formed a group once, they all planned the time talked got to know each other a bit... raid day shows up.... like 2 or 3 people be online lol, couple others wanted to try the trials first as practice(lol?) and failed MISERABLY at SoS ex and disbanded before setting foot in eden, few more went decently then people randomly would leave to go join... another static? before FINALLY finding one that was decent, but i wouldn't leave my FC of 4 yrs and join their newly formed one(they'd just imploded a guild and created their own.... didn't have high hopes for it) so they "disbanded that static but were forming another, and everyone that wanted to stay just let them know" and naturally everyone but me was included in that one + some new healer lol SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier and less aggravating to just get 4 friends and run something
Its getting annoying how more and more older players kept trying to remind the newer players how it was so good back then! you gotta be there to get it omg its so good last time unlike now which sucks so bad omg
I have been playing since HW and I love the game more now than I ever have in its history. There are some things I kind of miss, but they are really specific like Scourge, but mostly just for the animation. Managing single gcd dots on every job back then was the true homogenization and lack of uniqueness, IMO. Kaiten will just be a similar thing for me in the future to look back on, as I've been playing a lot of SAM recently wondering how I would feel without it and honestly love the current flow, it just feels good.
The issue with 14 is that the developers treat the gamers like their at lv45-50 still in the MSQ while everyone is doing Endwalker tome dungeons while playing at lv45 skill level rather then a lv90 skill level. Which makes it feel like your not getting stronger while going through the game. Just on auto pliot mode the whole time. Those dungeons are no more harder then a lv25 to 50 dungeon sadly.
It's because of those people who are solely there to play the story and won't bother to learn how to be okay at the game. So SE has to make the dungeons brain dead easy for those people specifically so that they aren't gated from seeing the story. Even gave the game journalist difficulty for solo instances that were already easy lmao.
"everyone"
There's a good portion of new players in arr hw and storm blood. Such a narcissistic comment
@@laurent992 i really don't understand it lately man, people in my fc "i dont wanna watch a guide i wanna go blind i JuSt WaNnA hAvE fUn" yeah but you die NONSTOP in lvl 70 stuff that we unsync to stuff i've explained 8,000,000 times and is FARRRRRRRRRR more simple so you REALLY should... "i don't wanna look at a job guide lol thats boring and i already know what the buttons do i just wanna RuN sOmEtHinG fUn!" that one caused me physical pain, i haven't wanted to reach through the monitor and smack someone so badly in awhile... I READ DA BUTTONZ =/= savage level rotation knowledge, knowing your proper stat priority, at least having some shred of a clue what the proper opener should be aka buffs up ASAP not..... 8minutes into the fight when boss is at 20% by which time you could've used all cooldowns 3x now...
Like how is it fun to constantly be dead? how is it fun to take 3-4 minutes to kill normal overworld enemies? how is it fun to be a deadweight burden for 7 of your friends? how is it fun to have to make 3-7 other people work significantly harder to pick up your slack? how is it fun to CONSTANTLY be typing "sorry guys" in chat for wiping everyone again? how is it fun to not be reinvited back to things? lol its just such a demented mindset, MY TIME IS MORE VALUABLE THAN EVERYONE ELSES AND I WANNA HAVE FUN SO GET OVER IT AND CARRY ME WAH!
@@DruidsCalling you ever heard of this thing called reading comprehension? didn't think so... you need some. clearly he was giving an example you brainlet, implying that the high level stuff is too easy... WOW THAT WAS SO HARD TO FIGURE OUT!
19:20
If tank dies 2 or 3 times he might stop doing wall to wall until tank single pulls, there the damage doesn't matter. Bosses don't have enrage so damage don't matter there either, paladin can solo most bosses, which I believe does less damage than 2 dps hitting 1 button and the healer casting the single attack.
If you single pull you also barely need any healing or mitigations as well, if any.
Médica II and regen carried me up to shadowbringers because of this and trust me, when a 2 of my dps is doing 50% of my healer's damage on pull or boss I know that wall to wall/boss was carried by tank and healer.
Which makes a harder argument for: You don't need to play well if there's at least one of healer/ tank decently. If no heavy pull? Basically anyone can win, even if playing terrible (as long as tank activates enmity)
It's like playing a game where you can't lose. I stopped capping because experts were my main way of doing so, but it's so absolutely mind-numbing that I'd rather not cap.
Everyone wants more agency but hard-core meta players wind up self-homogenizing their builds for optimal performance anyway. How do you balance that?
If one size does not fit all, make more sizes.
I mean people were screaming about how Paladin was unviable in the beginning of EW and there were still plenty of PLDs that cleared savage. I think folks just want the core identity of their fav jobs to stay fun and retain a sense of skill expression. Removing Kaiten was a big L for hardcore and casuals both honestly. It was a cool skill, and it didn’t make the class difficult really. Why remove it?
Imo he makes some very good points in the video but fails a lot in other parts. I think he generalizes a lot of player types. Players have multiple reasons why they like or dislike something. I think even most of his takes regarding veteran players are wrong. He just assumes every veteran player plays the game in the same way he does. For example people like Xeno were insanely happy that the WAR aoe got finally changed from a cone to a circle even though it meant more homogenization and arguably also less "depth". Also other WAR players like Shenpai really liked the change. And what about people that don't want the skill ceiling to become higher because they like how their job currently plays at the highest level?
I think a good example for too high skill ceiling is Mists of Pandaria. Even though it was the expansion with the most homogenization regarding the classes people absolutely loved it and called it the expansion with the best class design. But even players like Asmongold who was one of the best warriors in the world during that time thought that the skill ceiling was too high.
I think he should change the title to "FFXIV is Hurting Players That Want Higher Skill Ceiling And Less Homogenization" because he doesn't speak for all veteran players. In my opinion, it was mostly a great video but I wish he would have reflected more regarding certain parts and explained more things. Especially the part about casual players where he says "who are these changes for?" and doesn't go deeper in terms of how casual players feel about it. Instead he comes with arguments like "they are casuals so they don't care anyway about skill ceiling". How does he know that casuals don't care? Because he only says something similar to "well I talked to some people..." What did the people say? How many people did he ask about how they feel? Where did he ask them? How do these people represent an average casual player? How does he define a casual player? What if casual players like the current skill ceiling and want to get better because they feel encouraged to reach it because it isn't very high?
One of my biggest issues with WAR before the change was how my cone could sometimes not clip an enemy in a pull for a dungeon, meaning I would have to take time to maneuver myself right back to that enemy to pull him so that he wouldn't end up killing my DPS or Healers and give them some headaches. It was genuinely annoying and made early levelling WAR before Mithral Tempest absolutely atrocious to play (Don't get me started on Levelling roulette when Level Sync puts you right back in those early dungeons).
When you want more different shaped AOEs, I would much rather have it on DPS or a specialized tank button than make it a core combo you have to do to pull enemies (Dragoon AOEs and Edge of Darkness at least get that right).
I mostly agree with chair. And all you have to do is look at the duty finder when in between major patches. Very consistently you will mainly melt through content, while new patch sometimes it will go very good and sometimes go horribly (and im talking old content as well as new). This because the ppl that stick around inbetween patches have nothing else to do but to maximize damage or learn mechs like the back of their hand. Also, if you ever parse a normal roulette, a couple of really good players will hard cary the content (which is actually the most fun you could have in normal content). I dont really see any good reason to make everything a faceroll. ppl that want try hard will find a way and those that dont wont ever be burdened because we will just be carrying.
Something I've said in other places is that I'd rather have an unbalanced mess of a game that's fun to play than a perfectly balanced game that's stale or boring. Balance is important to a point, but it shouldn't come at the cost of a jobs enjoyment or gameplay loop like it already has for jobs like Astrologian and Scholar, or what we're seeing with Kaiten on Samurai. FFXIV has rarely had issues keeping all jobs viable, so I don't feel like much of the aggressive pruning we've seen from ShB and EW has done us any benefits.
I have seen these arguments before and while I can agree that some changes did not hit the mark, ultimately the case being made in large extent by Misshapen and even Despi in some cases apply to a limited group of players (admittedly so). Also Veteran players are not all Raiders and the case being made is primarily aimed at that contingent. But to the point of skill ceiling/floors and the homogenization of jobs. For the floors/ceilings. I am all for it in truth. The problem is....what reward are you expecting? I give you a high ceiling but maybe your DPS is only slightly better than that of those in the average to middling area. Are you satisfied? I mean you have your complexity, there is a difference/reward, but what if the reward (increased DPS in most cases) is only marginal. That becomes the issue overall. Those classes with high ceiling to floor ratio become problematic and are then either underplayed (if the reward for the complexity is low) or forced down the throats of players as being necessary to the detriment of other classes and playstyles.
As a players we have seen other games try and contend with balancing playstyle variety over the years, it ends up the same. Someone does the math, puts out a meta list, creates a rotation/priority cast doc, and boom. We ourselves as players do it all the same. As I recall Despi even has a few such guides out there. FFXIV was actually fairly open in showing that players were just not using a lot of the skills and variety out there. So why waste Dev resources on it if the players are not engaging it. The prime example of this was the Astro cards.
I think the way to think about it is that it's optional difficulty. You don't even need that much reward for it. Sure, you could play ninja and never utilize its mudras. You'd be a bad ninja, but you're still one. But if you want to try harder, you'd learn what your mudras do. If you want to try even harder, you'd learn about how to maximize uptime and your rotation. If you want to try even harder, you'd learn about alternate routes and priorities and creating fight-specific rotations.
The benefit of these steps is ultimately minimal, but it's a fun process. When you've done something, and want to do it again, sometimes you want to still challenge yourself. It's the essence behind competitive multiplayer, and the essence behind speedrunning, and the essence of raiding itself.
As for playrates, I don't think that's honestly too big of a deal. The Devs release niche content like savage raids, ultimate raids, blue mage, housing items, ex mounts, crafting recipes, gathering rotations. Each of these communities are like 10% or less of the community. You could release a dungeon that 100% of the community would engage with.
@@sauceinmyface9302 But the reward for doing mudras as a ninja is not marginal. It is significant and largely why the class is less played. The buttons per minute and mudra memorization is more complex and the gains are low in comparison to other melee dps. Nin is mainly raid dos reliant which means it needs synergy to be most effective. It fits a lot of the things the content creators here wanted and it is last in engagement. It's us a good class and has its base but it also demonstrates that such is not really coveted at large. Another example would be pre EW MNK.
@@JarrenBlake damn you really have no clue what you're talking about do ya buddy
TL:DR: Some of the points in the video are good, but I think Chair has plenty of bad takes too. Viability is a minimum that the devs should strive for, not a place where something is good enough.
I accept a lot of his points and I can see where he's coming from. I think oversimplification is a bad thing, and making all the jobs too easy isn't good for keeping the game engaging to play. I think losing healer buttons is a good example of bad simplification. However, not every nuance that exists in the game from old design is a good thing. I personally think cone AoEs are crap. Maybe with the new auto targeting feature making it so not having a target could still allow the AoE to go off could have fixed my main problem with it, but they added that feature at the same time they took away a lot of cones, so who knows.
I also think it's fine to try out some job changes. I personally didn't like the Kaiten removal or the crit balancing on Midare for Samurai (my main job.) However, I hated the cone AoEs, and personally I find the whole thing a push because I hated the cones about as much as I hated the Kaiten/Midare changes, so the overall change is a net zero for me personally. I still enjoy the job. I also think the summoner change was great. It went from being something I hated that was max level because I heal on scholar, to my 2nd favorite dps job. Does it suck for DoT players who feel like they either have to play Bard to go away? Yes. Do I think they should add a green mage or something else DoT oriented to make those players happy down the line even if I'll probably think it's crap? Yep. But I also think the new summoner FEELS a lot more like a summoner, and I think that's important. Two button pheonix phase would be fine though, because the heal feels pretty underwhelming to hit, even if it is thematic. Personally I think the healing blast should just be baked into the summon itself. I can't imagine there are really that many chances to tactically delay the healing HoT from it in a 15 second window that you can't really afford to drift or delay due to the restrictions on timing considering how easy most healing windows are in the game. Maybe just make the healing sit on players like an excog, and go off when damage happens. I think it''s more important to make the dps rotation more interesting on a dps job than worrying about the very rare and specific instances where the "once every 2 minutes" heal the job offers matters.
So again, I can see both sides of this. For example, I think Dragoon is thematically the coolest Final Fantasy job. I played anything with a jump whenever they let me in all the old games. The armor is cool, the themes are cool, everything about it is cool. But I personally absolutely hate how it plays in FF14. I think having 5 buffs to maintain is stupid and excessive. I'm actually ok with the long combos, and I don't mind the jumps being off global filler, although I wish Stardiver had more impact. I got it to 595 this tier and tried to force myself to master it just because I wanted to play it. But I just don't find it very fun. Now, am I saying that they should remake the job into something else, potentially ruining it for people who like it? No. But if they did remake it, I'll definitely try it, and potentially like it like I did with the monk and summoner changes.
I think it's ok to try new things and make changes. It's just important to remember that for every change that 70% of people like, you made 30% of people upset. And those displaced people need to be kept in mind for future changes, because even if a lot of people like what you did, you owe it to the people you negatively impacted along the way to give them something they can enjoy. Thanks for sitting through my TED talk.
It just feels like they’re catering more towards casual players. Like to me, P1s feels like an EX trial and not a savage raid. It starts to feel like savage content in P3s. The problem with that is now you have a crap ton of players that were carried through 1&2 who don’t know their class coming into p3s and can’t clear the high DPS threshold when they should’ve been stuck in p1s and worked on their rotation. I think they did that because they wanted to ease the casuals in, but I just feel like savage should be savage. I use to main WHM and I will never forget the sadness that came over me when they took cleric stance away and our multi dot aoe. I quit for a good 2yrs before coming back and I feel like the healers decline started with that. I now mainly play WAR and play my WHM every now and then when I feel like turning off my brain (healing has become that easy to me). I love my WHM, but it’s just not as fun as it use to be and it’s feels pretty stagnant. I use to HATE parsing and use to always voice that to my friends, but now as a WAR, I can see the beauty in it. It has given me a new way to enjoy the game . I found out that I like trying to beat my score and pushing myself to be better than the last run.
"It has given me a new way to enjoy the game . I found out that I like trying to beat my score and pushing myself to be better than the last run." this x1000000, huge agree
I think Bards need something to spread their Dots. Like the old summoner did, instead of tabbing every single mobs.
Another peeve that I have for FFXIV that they didn't cover, since it's not a mechanics thing.. is the time subbed/loyalty rewards stopped at a certain point, several years ago. I can't tell if it's them being lazy or them wanting it to be 'achievable' by people who sub 'now' and haven't been playing the game since launch.
They have specifically answered this before and, yes, they want all of the rewards to be actually achievable by all players. While "earnable" items like Ultimate weapons may not be something everyone will get, they technically can get them if they really want. They, however, don't want an item that requires 10 years of sub time to "earn" because that just might not be technically possible for a new player who starts today to get. It's not aspirational, it's just impossible.
The reason is both actually, they added the achievement token system in it's place but they also stopped adding new items to it as well (or 1 new item per expansion).
When changes happened to Sam I only started playing it, which is more on second char. At first I thought it would be cool, more pressing buttons rather than saving for boost. But now on lvl 82 I feel I miss Kaiten. And also striking in the cone felt better!
cones have and always will feel more fun for aoes. now you just stand in the middle and spam buttons instead of think about positioning
I miss the cone attack. I always felt that I was doing a better job by paying a bit more attention and was rewarded by hitting more enemies. I get that some dungeons have extremely large enemies and clumping gets unusual so a circle aoe is better but for everything else I feel lazy.
@@elongatedcarrot3704 You seem to be onto something. I've experienced the feeling that it's easier for me to hit positionals and be aware of AoEs as a DRG when I'm simply running around in a spot and doing my rotation.
The only problems I have with the mechanics is I personally think vuln stacks are a lazy design, just give bosses more unique moves that deal more damage if you fail a mechanic. And yes I know the dungeon sucks but the ochu boss in Aurum Vale is a great example of a boss done right, if you don’t eat the fruits in time the hits deal more damage. I just think mechanics like that make the fights more interesting, I guess I just prefer gimmick bosses
I actually think the vuln stacks are a clever tool. It means that you can fail pretty much any mechanic once, regardless of what it is, it is just that repeated failings result in punishment (death). The bosses in Aurum Vale are an interesting thing, too, but I would say they are not comparable with vuln stacks because they are entirely different in their purposes (one is punishment for repeated fails, the other is timing and ressource management).
@@kyoai that is true, I just feel like every boss now reuses this style and I wish they would make bosses have different status ailments other than vuln stack
@@dimitriosgladio059 Sure, I agree. While vuln stacks are a good mechanic, it would be nice to vary it up a bit. Not every boss needs vuln stacks, there are lots of different ways other than vuln stacks or damage down how players can be challenged.
@@kyoai exactly my thoughts! And I guess I should have rephrased it, it’s not necessarily a lazy mechanic it’s just reused way too often
@@dimitriosgladio059 Precisely. I really liked E2 where it gives you a damage down instead of a vuln stack, or other fights that would give you a stacking zombie debuff (Royal City of Rabanastre) and even turn these debuffs into an advantage (Mega Death in Dun Scaith) so you actually want to get hit by mechanics in certain situations. I think the FF14 dev team is only scraping the effective-but-safe surface of what could be possible with regards to boss fights, especially since they only limit themselves to very flat and regular rectangle- or circle-shaped arenas.
I can't play smn anymore because of this. It was my main since ARR, first class I ever leveled to 50. After the rework, it's the most boring class I've ever played in the game. I hate that it feels like they reworked it for everybody except the people that were playing the class, its now braindead class with flashy summons that hangout for 1 second, because everybody was screaming that summoners don't summon enough. Just sad they ruined my favorite class in my eyes to appeal to mostly people that didn't play the class.
The biggest thing that pissed me off of all the changes was making the summoner pet no longer attack. It just… stands there.
Yes it was just a glorified dot, but it was the very first thing that made me feel like a summoner
Videos like Misshapen Chair's always make me feel bad because even after years, I still struggle in some "easy" content and get overwhelmed when I try extremes, which is as high-end as I'll go. It's like, I can appreciate that some people are great at the game, but I've played it a ton and I'm just too "braindead" to actually get good at it. I have almost every job at 90, and it's still plenty difficult for me. It's just frustrating for people who are able to do the highest end content to assume people who aren't are having just as easy of a time as they are.
There is quite literally nothing for you to be frustrated over/feel bad about. Your side of the playerbase is clearly winning. Everything is continuously getting simplified more and more and more. Those of us who raided in heavensward are the ones getting the short end of the stick. Maybe one fight per expansion. There's way more to keep you entertained than us. You've got the golden ticket. We sneak into luggage.
@@edwinatwell7423 my "side" of the playerbase? what do you mean by that?
@@PinkSkunkSleepy You drew that distinction yourself in your original comment. Don't ask him to define it again to make him look bad lol. He's absolutely right. Thus, Chair's recent rants.
Which parts of the normal content are hard for you?
I don't know what distinction you mean, and I don't know why you're both being so hostile. Do you mean when I said people who are doing the highest end of content? That's not a "side," not everyone who's at that point thinks the same way. I'm not interested answering about what I think is difficult when you already said Chair is right. I'm just some braindead casual who's ruining the game, why does it matter what I think is difficult?
@@PinkSkunkSleepy Lol straight to the victim card and immediately pulls out the, "I'm not even going to WASTE my time explaining it to you" defense.
This is why the playerbase winds up segmented. No communication between the casuals and the hardcores.
Ultimately, i actually believe a lot of recent QoL changes have ironed out some “awkward” portions of jobs. I think what needs to change is encounter design, players need to make new decisions, or players need to feel more in touch with their role.
For jobs; I’ve thought that Healing doesnt necessarily need a complicated dps rotation, but healing should incentivize damage and damage should incetivize healing. Tanking should incentivize dps, dps should incentivize Tanking. Dps as is, i feel already has a solid reward structure, but many job gauges should feel more important. Its a complicated nuanced “issue”, that i think doesnt need an overhaul of the game, but different screws in different places.
I think the problem is that a lot of players who don't want to play DPSers don't care about damage.
Like I main healers because I like aiding and supporting others. I like PvP SCH where I use Adlo on allies and it increases THEIR damage or use Bio on enemies and it increases their damage taken (or reduces their damage, one of the two). I like the buff/debuff game. I do damage because I follow ABC (Always Be Casting) and if I don't need to heal, I may as well cast Glare/Broil/etc and keep up my DoT because....why would I stand around doing literally nothing or hardcasting overheal cures that aren't needed? But I get zero dopamine hit from dealing big damage. It honestly boggles my mind when people say seeing a big number gives them joy or whatever.
On the other hand, what's awesome to me is using mitigation and shields and seeing my party health bars go from almost empty to full OR loading people up with shields so they take no damage from hits. THAT is what does it for me. When I can blow some healer CDs and my party takes no damage from a boss ultimate (had a SGE/SCH pair doing ZodEx and we buffed the party so strong that his ultimate didn't even break all the way through our shields), THAT feels REALLY good.
Making everything "incentivize damage" is just not enjoyable to a large portion of the playerbase. If we wanted to do "big damage", we'd be playing damage dealers in the first place. The trick is to figure out WHAT ELSE to give people, and give them that instead.
@@SubduedRadical Yeah i agree with ALL of this, I need to rephrase my statement really; because I main SCH too and my fascination isnt with "Dealing Damage" necessarily. It's having a kit that feeds in on eachother if you catch my drift. The game WANTS us to deal damage and we have to to meet DPS checks and the like. However, as it stands it is very mind numbing, I will agree; making nuclear shield combos, buff/debuffs, utility are all reallyy satisfying features to play with, but imagine Those features got bumps for weaving in your broil-mage damage? If you dealt damage with your abilities it empowers your support capability, and vice versa. I can't understate how much I agree, its just my phrasing makes it seem otherwise.
@@ahrims7 Nah, I don't care much for that for this reason:
Damage is the weakest and most uninteresting part of a healer's kit. It's "filler" that's largely there so you can do solo story stuff. Leaning heavily on the part of the Jobs that's the worst part, and that people like ALREADY don't like isn't going to make it more engaging or fun.
What I'm thinking is more like...you know how old AST had HW/SB Cards and had Arcana and...I think it was "Royal Road" that let you buff the buffs (either increase their potency, increase their duration, or make them AOE so you could spread them to party members)? Stuff like that is fun to me.
Recitation + Adlo + Deployment Tactics is such a fun thing to me on SCH. There's nothing like a big hit of damage coming out that you see coming and make a massive shield then spread it to your entire party.
I LOVE those kinds of interactions.
The thing that sucks is that those abilities they put on stupidly long CDs. Instead of using that every 60 sec, it's 90 (used to be 120), so you don't get to do it much. Contrast PvP SCH, if you've played it, where you're deploying Adlos and Biolysis left and right because ET has 2 charges, 20 sec CD (or 15?) so it's up all the time, and you can use it to spread your DoT.
...which is interesting to me, because I HATE DoTs in general, but I love Bane and old Fester (where it did more damage based on the number of DoTs you have on the target), because there's actual interaction there. It's not just "press this button, remember to press it again in 30 sec when the tiny icon under the boss health bar that you can barely (and have to target the boss so hope you aren't healing a party member) see falls off".
I LOVE PvP SCH right now. I'm buffing my party, debuffing the enemy, spreading buffs (and debfufs) all over the place, and the CDs are short so it feels really interactive and like I'm always doing something, even with a narrow kit.
I think one of the big issues with FFXIV healing right now is oGCDs are arguably too powerful, but they also have longish CDs, meaning you get the worse of both worlds - awesome abilities that you either never use (situational) or use like clockwork on a heal plan (so they feel mechanical rather than organic and impactful), and then you just have your filler damage in between, which is boring.
I think less powerful but more often up abilities would make Jobs feel more fun.
Say what you will, but SGE feels more interactive than SCH. Adder isn't fighting between damage and healing like SCH does (due to Energy Drain, you legitimately want to AVOID using Lustrate, Indom, Sacred Soil, or Excog unless you're using them with Recitation - since Rec can't be used for ED anyway), so that means you WANT to use your Adders abilities. Moreover, the SGE version of SS you can use every 30 sec, and because you have no ED to fight with, there's literally no reason NOT to use it on CD for 50% uptime mitigation, and you DO want to burn Addersgall so you get the MP regen.
So even though mechanically SCH and SGE are very similar, SGE encourages you to use all those abilities while SCH discourages them because each AF heal you use is costing you 100 potency of damage. Which, in real terms...is PAINFULLY insignificant, yet is the difference between a gray/green parse and a purple/orange one that everyone judges your worth based on. /shrug
.
I feel like making the healers work a BIT more like PvP (not....LIKE PvP, but feeling more active and using abilities without a rigid healing plan) would make healing a ton more fun.
@@SubduedRadical Yeah, I agree with all of this once again. Even Im not advocating for an extended combo of healers because then itll just be 123123123 combos and that tends to be boring. SCH and SGE PvP are generally tons of fun; hell all the healers except astro have very fun offensive interactions in PvP and id love for them to go down that route. Your critique of SCH’s kit in comparison to SGE is on point too; Sage just ends up feeling like a kit that plays in on itself, everything feeds into everything and it feels really good. (its why it boggles my mind that people dont like it) My only gripe with Sage being the accumulation of addersting feeling a bit stiff and not that worthwhile in the grand scope of encounters. Ultimately ive always said that Damage isnt the thing that necessarily needs huge reworks on healers, its the act of healing that needs to be more engaging imo, a lot of awkwardness needs to be ironed out. I just hope with Scholar’s potential rework on the horizon (Yoshi-P mentioned that he wished they got scholar along with summoner) they dont remove some of those intensely satisfying parts of the class. Id personally like Aetherflow to be removed and have the class be solely dependent on 1 gauge.
@@ahrims7 I kind of agree.
Aetherflow is an artifact of 2.0. There's no reason for SCH to have it at this point, especially since ARC/SMN doesn't even have it anymore (it generates 2 stacks using an attack, Energy Drain, that also generates an on-demand instant cast AOE Ruin 4; and even THAT is borderline vestigial)
I think one problem is the Devs seem unable to come up with a capped resource spender that makes sense.
Say you're on SCH without Energy Drain on your bar. You have 1-2 stacks of Aetherflow left and AF is coming off CD. Everyone's at 100% health and you have Excog on the tank OR Sacred Soil is already on the ground or on CD.
What do you spend those two stacks on?
You can use an Excog, but only if it's not already on your tank or on its long 45 sec CD. You can use Sacred Soil, but only if its not on CD, which is 30 sec. Because of the way their CDs line up, even if you're using SS on CD, you'll have times where Excog is also on CD and you can't burn that last AF stack, or other times where you need to save SS so you can't use it. So you end up overcapping AF or just burning one on a useless Lustrate to build a little bit of Faerie Gauge.
So SCH has Energy Drain and got it back when players complained about them removing it.
...when the Devs could have just given us a Lustrate that's all shield, like Divine Benison.
SGE has this same problem in that if everyone's at full health, you can only use their shield (Kerichole?) 2x per minute. So what do you do with the third stack? And on SGE, you need to spend the stacks for your MP regeneration. So you have to burn it on something. And you don't have an Excogitation equivalent you can use on someone to provide a future benefit if they're at 100% right now.
Another problem with SGE is they have to be in near-melee to use their Ruin 2 equivalent and that they can't use Toxicon effectively since it's not damage neutral. Also that Kardia, while more "aimable" than Eos, can be a bit clunkier to use since it's more hands on while Eos can largely be put on autopilot and do her own thing.
I agree that SCH just needs one gauge. Having Faerie Gauge at this point is kind of silly since it does nothing but Union at this point. What they should do is have it generate over time and have that be what you use to fuel your Aetherflow abilities, and have each one used generate 5-7% MP or something.
That way, you could get rid of some button bloat (Aetehrflow, arguably Dissipation - an ability that is, in my opinion, THE WORST ability in the entire game) and streamline things. Then SCH and SGE both need a shield/barrier ability using their resource. SGE KIND of has one with Taurochole (it's not a shield but it is a mitigation), though it has a 45 sec CD like Excog so can't always be used to burn stacks. At least reduce the CD to 30 sec there.
EW SMN made me quit it after playing it since ARR. Nothing to do with dots, but how stale it feels. And yeah exactly what he brought up on bahamut and phoenix phases are pretty spot on. It was a ranged DPS moment in the caster, now it's a ranged DPS with some casting moments. It'll go the point that next tier there'll be enough SpS that you'll only need to ruin 3 in your opener and the rest is 98% instant cast with the exception of ifrit's shines and garuda' flow. That is if you want to SpS SMN which isn't exactly optimal, but certainly viable given that secondary stats are almost worthless in XIV.
some points he made were good but i feel like misshapen chair has reached a point where he complains about change just because it's change and not because it's necessarily a bad change.
I thought so before that as well, but here he is definitely pushing out some good arguments.
Curious : What did, in your opinion, he complain about just because it's change instead of being a bad change? Not trying to attack you, just interested in your opinion.
@SpicyGraye The only change was Kaitens removal (which admittedly sucks) and the change from more burst to more sustained dps. Samurai rotations didn't change. You just stick a Shinten in where you used to put a Kaiten. Overall damage output is the same.
It's barely changed.
@@KLGChaos i dunno man, Kaiten was pretty core to SAM’s feel. Also the Kenki gauge is only used for 1 skill now, making it feel just kinda tacked on? Haven’t touched SAM since honestly.
My issue with this game, and I played since 2.1, is that every single player in this game is babied. And the first third of HW was what changed it. People went into A1S-4S with the expectation that they'd roflstomp it, and turned out A3S was on the verge of killing the entire raiding scene. I still have PTSD of Pepsiman enrage. And every time I heard that "Ping ping" sound I flashback to Twintania and Nael. Over time, each of these fights went from breaking down a fight as a whole, to youtubing / pastbin and following a coordinated dance. I can sit here explaining how T9S through A1-4S felt like progress, while most of the SB[Barring like...O12S] felt like "Oh I'll just use this here and stand here" to EWs "Just use this CD here as a healer and move here afterward"
The community and the players have evolved, but the fights have not. And I feel like the dev team is still treating this game as a field of saplings, and not an emerging forest. The grading scale of this game is gradually introducing players to evolving mechanics, rather than introduce them to scaling gameplay. Every player can tell you to turn away from an eye, but experienced players will tell you that you can bypass the cast bar once it disappears because of an animation lock on the boss, and still be looking at the boss while the attack is happening.
I miss old summoner because I put some time into actually learning it. It wasn't hard, but it was incredibly fun and it felt like I was always active and every tool mattered. New summoner feels completely different, but also half-assed in the changes they made. Why do we need a button to summon carbuncle now still when carbuncle doesn't do anything except let you access your shield? Why do we even need a pet bar at all for it when the summons hover over for 50 levels going to damage the enemy automatically? Why do we still have aetherflow charges instead of new buttons that are more active and do different things? Why do we have to wait 26 levels after getting Astral Flow to get the tools associated with it for the main 3 primals we summon?
It feels like they threw out a tightly knit complete job in favor of something fast and fluid but with its own clunky issues. I played Summoner for high level main story in EW and at 90 the summons taking up so much space that you can't fully see the AoEs around you to dodge make it a pain in the ass. I shouldn't have to keep summoning carbuncle every time I'm revived and have to wait 7-8 seconds to start casting again after reviving mid-battle (5 seconds of invul to heal, 2.5 or so for cast/recast on carbuncle). I shouldn't have to learn a macro to shrink my level 90 primals when they shouldn't be so intrusive to begin with. The kit also needs to be made tighter so parts of it don't feel vestigial compared to the old rotations. I like new summoner, but I love old summoner, and they still need to finish the job tuning it until I have a full replacement to what was lost. I definitely FEEL the complaints Chair is making on this.
My greatest problem with FFXIV is that they are making the jobs way too easy, their rotations seem easy and straight forward. Also dungeons offer no real value unless they have some good glam or minions/materials. I wish thet would add more vale to dungeons, PVP and other battle oriented content.
Classes are easy to pick up and learn the difference nowadays between a good player and a regular player is just battle knowledge and uptime
They need to add old status back to make multiple optimizations. I think they also need to add more value to world areas instead of adding just a random FATE
Bruh the dungeons are part of the story. That’s like the entire reason to freaking have them in the first place. Man, y’all wack forgetting entirely this is a story driven game. They aren’t trying to bring down the casuals with hardcore play styles. If you want that go do savages and ultimates that’s why they are there. Everything else is part of the FF theme park that is FFXIV. Like do you even play the game? And they just update the pvp with new content? Classes are easy to pick up because of time spent In the game and you taking the time to learn them, not only that more than likely you are looking up a guide to make it even easier on yourself. Everything you have said has like 0 weight. You completely disregard the factor they are making the game more single player friendly as well. Which is also a good thing, because love it or hate it, sometimes people prefer to not engage with people at all when they are wanting to game and relax. And maybe you should actually try going out into the world and discover more than just a fate. Try a fate train, get to know people. Go out and gather your own mats more often than just getting it off the market board. All I’m saying is that everything you said make it seem like you really don’t play the game.
@honeycrispTVWhat rewards would you say should be added other than glamour pieces or pet farming for dungeons? Or exp rewards?
In Dungeons, the trash pull is harder than the Boss fight, because everyone pulls wall to wall. Sloppy DPS will get the tanks killed because their cooldowns don't last long. Sloppy healers & tanks will cause wipes. I think the Boss fights need to be much harder in Dungeon content, as it is, it's way way too easy. (Nobody in Dungeons pull just 3 mobs at a time, as devs intended).
Uh.... No just sto "3 mobs at a time as Devs intended" wall to wall has been the go to for the majority of the games life sometime during arr last few patches. When then don't want you to do it guess what there is a physical block. Of course if the healers underheated tank etc on leveling you make adjustments. Those sloppy DPS/healers/tanks you speak of are the ones who didn't learn as they leveled cycling cd's waiting for tank to get mobs grouped etc. It can be jarring at first but ff14 flips the script on a few things including trash is where you actually need cool downs. Dungeon bosses are easy, DPS is everyone's job including healer but also mitigation is the party's job dps moving out of things while keeping uptime.
@@Belzuboss i have the opinion that endgame dungeons should be slightly more difficult. i mean if you reach end game it. it's OK to assume you know the basics of your Job.
DOTS are the core to summoner's identity, really. We had SO many dots during HW and even ARR. That was how it was. They could've just let us continue having DOTS while also revamping the pet system because it was the pet system that was clunky, not the casting, hence being able to keep a certain skill ceiling. Summoner is just flat out braindead now, no skill required whatsoever. Yea sure it's way flashier than what it was, but flashy does not equate to good.
I 100% agree with the skill ceiling argument and having us learn a class/job for weeks even months to attain a certain skill level to distinguish oneself from others, to then take it away is harmful to veterans. The barrier to entry may be lower, but veterans will leave because of these changes
man, I was so pissed when summoner lost dots I didn't want to play it. then I did, and it was like "oh it's still okay. why are my dots gone though?" also, RIP overpower cone.
Probably cause they wanted it to be like an actual summoner from FF series
@@zi-zi7294so, longass cast times for one summon? nah
@@ntma You know what I mean, actually summoning primals instead of being a damage over time bloat machine it was in the past, which is not what summoners in ff are.
@@zi-zi7294 tbh even if that were true, the people that liked summoner for what it was don't really have anything to go back to. Its like creating a new job and slapping it over an old one. Most of the jobs in this game do not play like they do traditionally anyway. Dancer, Darkknight and Samurai for example, or even bard. Bard in this game is really just marksman with a couple "songs".
For Healers from a WMA point of View regarding DMG, return Aeroga as AE Dot but make it override Aero. So it will be used only in AE Situation. Additionally add a 5 second nuke that has a chance to get an instant nuke through Glare or Dot Ticks.
This still would basically keep it as a 1 dot and 1 dps gcd spam healing role.
XD I like the subtle WAR symbol at 21:30 talking about things really simple
RIP SAM
There were a suggestion back in ShB about making skills customizable. AoE will deal less damage than a cone and a straight line, increase damage potency of a specific skill will also increase CD and resource requirements like MP and spender gauge.
The addition to this that they should add DPS check mechanic as a reactive mechanic to the bosses. This will make parser nuisance less a problem but rather ppl need to pay attention to the mechanics to know when to hit and stop dpsing.
If this can become a thing, it might resolve the issues with openworld contents and they can change it on and off as they are easier to do a hotfix if ppl don’t like certain boss mechanics in casual contents.
Playstyle customization won't and never will work on MMORPG where you have to co-op with other player to clear content.
Due to certain custom playstyle will clash with other player custom playstyle and hence resulted not only not able to clear content due to mismatched custom playstyle between player, but also foster toxic environment due unable to clear/prog the content in a "Meta/Optimal" way, e.g. World of Warcraft
However, playstyle customization WILL work on MMORPG if ALL content are intented to be cleared solo, since any playstyle that customized will and ONLY affect you, yourself . e.g Path of Exiles,
Shoot, I find the ultimate/savage stuff really hard. This game’s jobs will feel similar-ish simply due to battle system of auto aim, so honestly some just prefer other styles better like Lost Ark where there’s more skill shots. Also PvP adds so much replayability to the game. I can honestly say I would unsubscribe until the next big patch if PvP hadn’t been revamped in 6.1
Well that is exactly what the Devs tell you to do. Hence their design choices. The game is not trying to hold your sub with fomo or other tactics. If you only engage in certain content or feel you have reached a fun ceiling point. Step away and come on back when new stuff hits.
PvP in 14 is now so fun, I find I play it more than doing raids. :D But you should try to get into Savage, its been the most fun PvE content for me and this is the first tier where I went into that content, just a casual in PF.
I'm a perfect example of what he is afraid will increase in the future. I stuck through this game through the 1.0 shift to ARR but the post Shadowbringers/Endwalker meta and changes to playstyles made me go from first-week savage tier clearer every tier through Heavensward to a mostly-story midcore that dips into savage much later after restrictions are gone and the optimizations are all in. Yeah, let that sink in. There are very few if any of us original alpha test group left in the active playerbase as the direction is clearly "accessibiilty at all costs" which has been shown to kill anything foolish enough to not understand the old true saying "Too much of anything, even good things, can become terrible."
Not sure I agree wit this sentiment but any change will drive some of the player base away or change their habits. While no changes does the same. But in truth I disagree with the skill ceiling/floor arguments overall.
But well, if it's become more approachable, why not? I looked at the history of FFXIV and there are lots of worse thing that makes me hate to play it in old times. Cross-class skills, multiple stance of PLD, aggro combo (why in the world dev need to make it), TP and when use sprint, TP become 0, so many weaving and weaving. YoshiP tried so hard to reduce the weaving by removing bloated weaving activator like Blood ofnthe Dragon, Dark Arts, and Kaiten, is already a plus value for me as a new player during 2021. Compare what i saw in 2016, current game is more casual
@@arolimarcellinus8541 It wasn't all good, but I never said it was. Some good was definitely removed with the bad and never re-added to the game. It was so small and incremental that it wasn't really noticeable until 2 or 3 expansions later, but the founding playerbase certainly felt it because a lot of us did not stick to a high level of commitment over time.
i actually took a break from f14 cause of what they did to summoner its the only class i played and i didn't really like the changes in shadowbringers but i ate it this change in endwalker i was like im done gonna take a break for awhile to me the summoner is just bad ik alot people like it but it dosent feel like a summoner to me.
I just wished they'd improve the difficulty or at least variety in dungeons and for jobs like healers.
As a healer main who loves doing dungeons in all my game, i lost my hype for those completely.
Now to me a new release of content just means annoying dungeons i won't even have to think about, and raids i'd need to find 7 others willing people with schedules to go blind in that'd be fine with someone who doesn't have past raid experience.
The MMO aspect of ff14 is great, but it's also a thing that is required so much, it makes it technically a certain skill floor.
You need to search others, and gather them, hoping things go well.
And at least for me, it's very hard. And that's not even talking about getting 7 other people to do OLDER hardcore content.
At least msq was tuned back to 4 players not 8, they could do that for old raids, so i can complete them without unsync'ing.
Or they could make some rewards for completing old raids, or buff those raids at new item levels without making it a content you need to finish the newest expansion to access to.
I also had PvP on the side (yes, that one piece of content most players in this game prefers hiding under the carpets >.< ) but that as well got butchered (up to debate, but most old pvp players are now away from the game or sleeping in it).
We had a small skill floor that allowed anyone to join in, then a certain skill curve into a high ceiling for players to compete vs each others.
But once again, in an atempt to attract more players, they removed everything (imagine if all raid mechanics, job buttons and rotations, or the entire crafting system reworked without even listening to their players) and instead put a new style of game, that requires much less time for players to get at their best.
We have to restart it all over, just because instead of making it more interesting for newer players, they wanted to restart over inviting newer players with an "easier" time, and we don't even take a lot of time to reach the skill ceiling, to the point where a good player and bad player are differentiated by very little details that wouldn't even give an advantage to the better of the two.
The more i play this game, the more i think the devs do not care about player retention, and instead want newer players to get in more things.
But sadly done wrong, this makes older players leave or blame the newer players who are more than willing to learn and don't even need those changes !
Who asked that content becomes very ez so that they can do the "hard" stuff in a breeze ?
Then what's the point of that hard content ?
Job skill ceiling also is made for those who want it to be hard, it's not even required in most of the game, so why make it easier at higher level as well ?
Those who play those jobs, once they reach higher level, will be comfortable enough to handle the difficulty increase.
Tl:dr : Bring back Selen and old scholar !!! T^T
i do agree with what chair said about the sub and keepign people subed when i had the complexicty in some jobs and had things to do i would stay subbed pretty much consistently but recently after taking a break before endwalker and now more than never i have take very extended breaks only resubing when my house timer is about to run out not to mention certain decisions they made not just regardign jobs but costumisation aspects like how they hide the hrothgar hair for example feels like things are being rushed or they just dont care and if the devs that make the game we love dont care why should we even bother?
6.1 PvP is fun due to classes being unique and each feel and play differently. In PvE most play the same, only few are truly different like the BLM
The only thing I kinda understood about the jobs was SMN DoT’s being removed, I think they could of kept that in no problem based on how brain dead the rotation is now. The whole Kaiten change is not a big deal I think people who are upset about SAM has to do with the auto crit and how it effs under raid buffs. NIN is in the literal best spot it’s ever been. Peoples issues with GNB is the movement and distance by yalms it’s gcds have & that no mercy isn’t long enough. The reason they change some of these jobs is because people complain so much about certain issues to where they think they have to go back on the whole drawing board when it comes to fixing it. So it’s not just the devs trying to over simply things it’s the players tbh.
No the kaiten issue is far worse than losing some synergy, it's the loss of what the job feels like it should do. Kaiten was setup for a big hit and that was sam's identity, big potency hits; those are mostly gone now. Even if they brought back the potency just to the skill that'd be like if dancer didn't have the steps for tech step. While also less significant, it was a tiny increase to the ceiling of kenki management, now it's for button spam time. The loss in synergy is honestly completely irrelevant, war still gets played, mch(much less so) still gets played, meta is virtually useless in this game unless you're speedkilling.
I started this game in Stormblood, and I felt the downgrade in difficulty/complexity of tanking and healing massively once ShB dropped. The first dungeon I tanked I was astonished at how braindead it is to tank now compared to in SB, and I literally fall asleep while healing anything except wall-to-wall pulls. And my enjoyment of the game has in many ways decreased because of this change. It may be my lack of experience and knowledge of tanking at the time, but as a new healer I remember almost every tank doing a great job in almost every dungeon I ran, whereas nowadays there is hardly a single dungeon I run as a healer that doesn't have a completely incompetent tank, either not using cooldowns, doing baby pulls or chain pulling, spinning bosses and killing teammates. Sure tanking is more "accessible" now, but it's accessible to players who have a much larger negative impact on my enjoyment of the game as a tank than as a dps. Sorry if that's elitist, but I'd rather have longer queue times and actually have fun doing dungeons. Also I was heartbroken when they removed Aero 3 from white mage, that was such a sexy spell to cast with the spinning of your cane, and I loved SB astrologian and its card mechanic way more than the "everything is balance" system.
Chair’s video really hits me because I’m a healer main, or former healer main. WHM to be exact. Played it in 5.0, but dropped it when 6.0 came.
WHM had no meaningful changes. You still glare spam. Tried SGE, but the job is basically the same thing. You just spam Dosis instead. You barely use any of it’s healing kit because damage is so low and you don’t get enough Addersting charges for Toxikon.
I think the issue with Healers is that they change drastically depending upon the content. Dungeons they are trivial and so we wall to wall pull to make it "interesting". Savage they do more healing but it is more about mitigation and coordination than anything. Ultimate is what it is. On top of that you have two groups. Those that want healers to heal more and those that greater DPS complexity. The issue being that in the higher content the greater DPS complexity can and will become an issue as healing and mitigation requirements upon said healers increase.
@@JarrenBlake tbh what I'd prefer is to have tanks have more self sustain and transition healers into utility dps with minimal heals and reses. I tanked raid roulette today on gnb with both healers dead and only a RDM up for healing. Between me and the other tank juggling agro between each other and sacrificing DPS to keep one another up it was surprisingly a lot of fun.
@@xxJing That is absolutely fair. But it is also completely opposite of what some (myself included here) would want. Hence the Dev rock and a hard place conundrum. I would want Tanks to have less self sustain and more overall damage outputs from bosses that would then require far more healing focus. On top of that more cleanse and debuff removal mitigations. In essence I want healers to move away from DPS roles. However I seen how that plays out as player invariable tend towards wanting to DPS but for some reason do not want to play pure DPS roles. Reasons for which vary from not liking them, not enjoying the increased burden/complexity, or oversaturation of those roles leading to long queues and decreased opportunities in raiding.
@@JarrenBlake Part of the issue is that healers are always gonna want to dps. Almost every fight can be broken down into: do mechanics, do dps. Do mechanics includes staying alive, so mitigation and heals as well as doing the mechanics. Doing DPS is the only other thing you can do. Once the mechanics are done, healers and tanks can only dps. Hence the need to improve dps options for both roles, I feel. More importantly, it goes all the way down. It'd be more fun in savage, it'd be more fun in dungeons. Making healing more difficult requires tuning in all content. Make it harder in dungeons, make it easier in savage. Ditto for making tanking more difficult.
I think that another avenue is adding more universal mechanics to each job. Shielding a DPS that is forcible targeted, for example, or timing mitigation very precisely, or heal checks on adds or doomed teammates.
@@JarrenBlake I'd main astrologian if they shifted more of it's dps contribution to the card system and changed it's heals to just be pure barriers (no health recovery) and heals over time depending on your aspect. They will never do it because that would make it into a big brain class and they want to avoid that, but that's the type of healer I'd like to play.
I dunno much about Wow's mythic+ or GW2 fractal dungeons, but I've played Destiny 2's strikes, with increasing difficulty levels ending in the almost Savage equivalent Grandmaster Nightfall, which drop greater rewards like weapon upgrades, weapon crafting mats (?), God roll guns, exotics, etc.
While I don't want FF to become another looter, I'd like something close to these with their dungeons, with modifiers like party gets speed / infinite cd buff but attacking wrong mob order giving aoe dmg or debuffs on death, something like that. Maybe drop relic (all old relic steps, pls?) mats, glam, gear, etc. It'll cause problems with our weekly tome grind, sure, but anything to take a break from this old treadmill. Plus it'll be nice to have something else decently challenging to do if you don't want or have time to PF ex/raids/ultis, or mald in PvP, though CC is fun af
And while I can go on malding about classes getting braindead, at least Mnk's still fun to play despite losing 4 positionals; aligning Double Phoenix and then the big number Phantom Rush during major buffs feelsgoodman
I know personally as a Scholar main since Stormblood I really miss how it played. Turning Scholar from Dot mage to Broil mage was one of the most disappointing changes. On top of that even the fairies were homogenized and made to be exactly the same (rip Selene). Expedient is nice but it doesn't really fix the main issue of playing Scholar, especially in dungeon content. It's an absolute snooze fest to run Expert Roulette when most of the time it Broils down to Art Of War.
Chair makes some really good points that I think a lot of people are missing. Making a class a little busier will not make it worse for casuals but will absolutely make it more enjoyable for those who play the jobs and want to get better at them.
I'd love to get my dots back or at least some sort of combo so it doesn't feel like my entire experience comes down to how many Art of Wars/Broils I can get before I need to heal once. The current direction is leading to classes starting to feel more and more similar to each other. Sage and Scholar are very similar jobs to each other, Summoner is basically a ranged phys with the odd cast. Hopefully things improve next expac.
feel you! I played and loved scholar in stormblood! Since Shadowbringers i swapped to even from Healer to DS due to all of the cut downs healers were suffering from. I miss those times!
My issue with this game is mainly how the healers work. I dont mind the damage, but I feel heal management in this game requires almost little effort. You basically play healer for an easy dps with some buffs every now and again. It doesn’t feel good to get these healer buttons and just not use them. Also jobs like Machinist should be fixed
what's wrong with machinist....? o.O seems fine to me
Personally I started hating Dungeons in the game when the Siren one was Nerfed
His analysis of Heavensward was spot-on. There was a crap-ton of jank compared to what the game is today. Thank god for evolution lol
Gating everything behind the MSQ sucks! I'm a 94 White Mage and I'm stuck on a dumb-ass solo duty in Shadowbringers that I will, most likely, never complete. I paid for Endwalker and Dawntrail but that content will likely never be available to me. I'm wasting my money with Square Enix, at this point.
Das Spiel ist wie ein Tanz kennst du die Schritte beherrscht du den Tanz. Was es langweilig oder leicht macht ist auch das item Level tanks werden zu mächtig und Mechaniken die man vorher für Feinde einsetzten musste gehen einfach mit der Zeit vergessen item level ersetzt das.
My opinion that I think the developers like a the Japanese analytics more then Other countries it’s a Japanese games after all it’s made in Japan so you want please your people more then others you think they care that someone one your class was taken away.
Thats a valid argument. They might be more patriotic than they would admit.
Exactly
for a lot of things in the game, big agreed, but even in japan the sam changes were badly received to the point yoshi p said they may consider adding it to the job list that are going to have big changes in 6.2, others being dragoon and astrologian. At same time Im hyped Im scared of their plans for them considering what we see already
Look how long it take from dark knight to get love I know it’s popular in west but I can tell it’s not big class plus I think the Deves have the mind set that here trying to balance all the class the reaper come out perfect so all wane be on the same level the Japanese have a Way of looking at life everything should be balanced everyone should be the same I guess I can understand people like complex classes.
dark knight's case is the prime example because japan loved how living dead worked so this change was purely to please na/eu, specially stacks on blood weapon/delirium, they live in 0 ping and no one ever complained about clipping XD Im just not a fan how yoshi p says for us to give feedback in the forums but the feedback on blood weapon was there out and loud and never addressed until someone on media tour directly mentioned it and he says "no one complained so we didnt know", wonder if its because the balancing team doesnt speak english but then whats the point of english forums?
Bro you should really watch chair man joker arc (1:I am ffxiv villain, 2: The FFXIV cash shop exist and therefore i hate it, 3:Parsing in FFXIV is a disease.)
I just miss the MAGE Dark Knight.
To all the new FFXIV players who came into the game around shadow bringers, you might not get it.
Back in ARR, we had TP bars if we were physical DPS, Mana management was a thing for some classes, and Tank enmity wasn't solved by a stance. You actually had to manage crowd control up to 4.0, not DPS. Everything Chair criticized in the video was spot on. The game needs to insert some "Job" complexity again. Because I am pretty sure players have noticed every dungeon is now just trash pulls, then bosses.
When the fuck did people EVER like TP bars?
@@Orphan_of_Kos_or_some_say_Kosm I have always liked tp, it made normal enemy pulls more interesting and dying in bosses more punishing.
@@Orphan_of_Kos_or_some_say_Kosm It was literally a resource that separated Disciples of War form disciples of Magic. It was the resource management before a person was granted a job gauge. Is their a reason why you didn't like it?
I'm like really slow with learning new stuff, so everything in this game is kinda hard for me. Learning a new class is hard, playing a new dungeon is hard. I cleared savages but was mostly carried by my groups. So I wholeheartenly disagree with misshappen hair's opinions. I think the game cathering to people like me is great!
I love my free company. So no matter what happens in the future, I will keep on loving final fantasy❤️
wait..... he LIKED fkin threat management? that was literally the WORST thing about tanking, the craptastic DPS would REEEEEEEEEEE BLOW ALL COOLDOWNS AND BIGGEST HITS BEFORE THE TANK IS EVEN AT THE BOSSS NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WHO CARES ABOUT AGGRO!!!!!!!!!! what a horrible take
I think what he doesn't get is that these changes seem to be made for the mid-core to get into Savage. I believe that's what Yoshi P is trying to do, to encourage the mid-core to try things other than 4 mans and 24 mans. Just like real life has poor and rich but also middle-class, FFXIV has hyper casuals and Ultimate raiders, but also a large mid-core of players.
I also think it's great if the game (ANY game) has "easy" and "hard" classes. To me, that's great, as players can pick what they're most suited to. The problem is - PEOPLE COMPLAIN. Usually the people playing the hard stuff. They complain they're having to do more work and not doing more damage, so they demand they do more damage. The devs instead choose to neft and homogenize everything.
This is what happened to healers. SCHs complained endlessly they had to work harder than WHM and do the same damage. They were HOPING what would happen is they would get their damage buffed. But as the game is balanced around healers doing comparable damage, that wasn't an option. So instead, they gutted SCH's damage complexity so that they wouldn't complain about having to do more work anymore. This, combined with a healer shortage and them trying to get more people into healing, led to the overall changes (removal of Cleric, etc)
I suspect their core idea is for jobs to become more accessible overall and not force choice, if you make a job too hard compared to others it forces choice depending on your skill level, their justification for adjusting Samurai was inline with that. I don't think they are aiming towards super casuals or high end either, they may be playing a game of numbers... meaning the type of player that is more abundant and more easy to retain, that's not either super casuals or raiders/hardcore raiders but the general population which most probably don't run savage content, perhaps not even extremes? (I would love to have their metrics, it would give us some insight on what's going on)
For example, looking at savage statistics you can clearly tell that some jobs have a much wider spread of damage output in clears than others (I'm looking at you BLM) and others are just easier to get the desired output (MCH), I suspect they may want to make jobs more similar in outcomes.
Anyway, I could be wrong in my suspicions but to me it makes sense, Yoshida was always particular that he's not catering to one group or other and that he's trying to cover all the most he can, the bigger percentage of type of players would obviously then be a focus for main design choices and then ensure you have something for super casuals and something else for hardcore raiders.
Take it with a grain of salt, this is just my opinion.
You can’t please everyone. Simple as that.
Cool story bro. So who should they please then?
@@yanipheonu clearly they are deciding to cater to more newer/casual players than butt hurt veterans who would make rant videos over some altered abilities in a video game
@@ZoraKurosagi so u want 14 to turn into wow couse that is what wow did
@@neopolitaneagle212 if it means staler gameplay for people who want to struggle with with a job rotation then so be it. But ik Yoshi P doesn’t want to copy wow mistakes, so all we can hope for is that he will try to balance the changes to please both casual and hardcore players, but like I said- can’t please everyone, the devs are humans just like us and they struggle when faced with challenges like this, just like anyone else would.
I’ll never do the hard savage and beyond content because people suck. Same goes for wow. This is why I wish mmo development would focus on the actual world and just more instanced crap.
Given the drama in hunts over early pulling and the like, I don't think that the devs want to feed more into that since many of the changes in this game are partially done to guide community behavior.
Open world content by definition enables players to help or hinder each other, after all.
After all
@@encapturer hunts aren’t exactly what I was thinking. A game that does open world content well is guild wars 2. A lot of it is like open world raids
so, he talks about how simple jobs can be if i got it right. i am very sure some of you know the FF14 plugin XIV Combo. the plugin does what you have in PvP. for example; in PvE need all the samurai combos 8 hotbar slots. in PvP only 3 because they are all 3 chained together on 3 buttons. yoshida is aware of this plugin and in the liveletters said they that this comes for PvE in 6.2x as optional controls. so, if you think right now playing any class is easy. wait when they introduce the PvP hotbar variant to PvE. all of you will even more complain how easy it is xD. i stopped using XIV Combo tho because i got my new razer naga X (my oldone broke and i had to find something to still play without breaking my fingers on some jobs on the keyboard ^^) but god. if you use XIV Combo and then putting everything skillwise on your hotbar is that ... compared to without XIV combo so less skills ... you barely need 2 skillbars for everything. and yes, that comes probably in 6.2 or 6.2x. ya all can be excited how much easier it will be to play classes in FF14 in a not so far away future ^^.
These points are so true, i dont even materia meld because in most parties because i know my rotations I out DPS everyone. And when someone out dps me i know its because of good rotation + melds. and the gearings its so horizontal i even forget to use my stones cause even in savage u dont need l33t gear
completly just some
base pieces
Ok I agree with most. But them aoe changes argument is dumb lol. I think it’s a slight change. Quality of life I guess. But who cares whether it’s a circle or not lol.
I mean, I do. I get exactly what he's talking about. Weaving in and out during aoe on samurai felt fun to me, even though it was a small nuance. I'd say it's removal as well as kaitens is the reason I no longer play SAM even though I was a SAM main.
it is weird but somehow the warrior change made me not wanna use it in dungeons anymore.
xeno also made a video on the game getting more stale with each expansion, it was a good watch too
im complaining about the new continuation maybe they will remove it, or maybe they add more
I missed a few years of ffxiv, but whats happening is EXACTLY why I quit, and why I came back. Idk if devs ever said it is, or it isn't, but Chair is wrong. This game is designed for EVERYONE. Everything they do is to get more people to play, and keep more people playing, especially if they are sprout new.
Yeah, MMOs need to appeal to the largest demo they can, ff14 is no exception, other wise they whither and die without new blood. Obviously new players will be favored more over the old, it's just common sense.
I prefer jobs skills to be easier to understand over a fucking mess, specially in fights that they break your dps uptime every fucking 30 seconds, either because boss jump, aoe, or whatever they do. On top of that, with to many fucking action on a gamepad it start to be a fucking mess. For switching crossbar with a gamepad sometimes I activate the chat tabs or other stuff without the possibility to configure it (or at least i cant find the option to disable shortcuts like that). The change they need to make in the game is PF. They must, MUST remove that penalty for say, savage, where cleared ppl nerf duty incomplete damn chests. This won't help anyone. Example, I have p1s clear, Im bored and would like to help someone progress and clear but on the other hand, I don't feel to ruin their 2 chests specially if they had a long time training. Of course, sometimes ppl don't care of chests, but why the fuck nerf their chest when only 2-3 fucking ppl have a clear? I would understand if 7 ppl carring you, but 1-4 with clear? Also, I don't do it for a gain when helping, but if ppl would get some incentive (tomestone?) for helping other ppl progress or clear savage and such, would help PF more with finding ppl to play with (like P3S) without ruin damn chest for everyone.
Because even someone who has cleared it can hold impact in a raid (one less person the healer has to worry about outside of raid wides and one person that knows how to optimize damage). Add 2 or 3 more and the impact increases. Add a discord with the person doing callouts and the impact increases further. The point of the nerf is to limit the amount of ppl that can be carried through it. Yes you can still have clear for 1 parties or however many ppl need the clear, but it will come with a price. You shouldn’t be rewarded for inviting ppl who have cleared it so you can get the clear. You can either work hard with the ppl who haven’t cleared it and be rewarded or take the penalty with someone who has and get your 2 chests next week.
Huge disagree about GNB's double weaving creating friction when adjusting the boss as a "feature" instead of an oversight. The Tank role is responsible for only 2 things - boss positioning, mitigating damage that would kill the other roles. That's it. GNB's double weaving is a hinderance to 1 of those 2 core responsibilities of the role and that's poor design. If they made the burst window flexible by lasting longer or changing it to stacks, suddenly, you alleviate both - you can keep the nuance while at the same time making it less clunky for the tank to do one of its two jobs. Misshapen chair has good broader ideas, but then he says stuff like this that reminds me why I'll never take his criticism seriously.
That's why i don't like GNB. As a tank, why they got lots of attack weaving instead of protectbweaving like PLD?? Are they a DPS or what?? If you are a tank, you don't care about damage output. But well parsers in the world always bitchin about orang orange which i don't understand why.
@@arolimarcellinus8541 because theres a dps check to meet? and without the double weaving, gnb is just another war, his entire kit is on gnashing fang and continuation, drk is just “on sale” war, dont need more of that
@@arolimarcellinus8541 As a tank, you very much care about damage output. If you DPS harder, you might skip a mechanic. This is universal. Dungeons, trials, savage raids, ultimates. Saying tanks don't need to care about damage is like saying healers don't need to care about damage. Are you really ok just pressing no buttons during all that useless time? And naturally, you wanna improve at it. You start learning to press your buttons correctly. You start learning the little intricacies. You might desire more complexity. Well gunbreaker is right there. It's a tank, and it's more busy.
@@sauceinmyface9302 welp, actually, i also don't care with damages while playing tank or healer. My priority is not damaging, but to keep my tanking or healing. Let dps do the damage. I just do the damage while not busy tanking or healing.
It's just me though. Maybe people really like to do both. Tried to do both, and i cannot keep up
If someone thinks that all jobs play the same they have clearly not played all jobs.
Tanks: WAR is completely diff to DRK, PLD has nothing to do with GNB, and so on.
Healers: WHM is nothing similar to AST, same with SGE and SCH.
Melees: MNK and SAM have a complete different style, same with NIN and its mudras. Also, DRG and RPR play nothing alike.
I could go on with Ranged and Casters dps.
FFXIV is maybe not the hardest game when it comes to master a job, yet, there's ton of people who DON'T WANT HARD CONTENT. I'm so freaking tired of tryhards complaining about this game or this other game. You want difficult games? go play Dark Souls, go play other games where you die instantly because you pressed X instead of O, seriously.
Moreover, if you're good at your job and you think you cannot get better, go play savage, go play ultimate, good luck with that, that's freaking HARD. Still, if you think that's ez pz, go play other games, simple as that, they're not gonna make the game hard because of a minority. Period.
I think when people mean they play the same it's because those jobs have certain aspects that are supposed to make them feel unique but realistically other jobs also share it too making the other jobs also easier to learn and have very few unique mechanics.
There's a ton of people that want a balance between hard and casual content just as much as people wanting more casual and more hard content. The only way people are going to get what they want is to complain or criticize which is perfectly acceptable to a certain point.
i dont think u watched the video at all. sad the game is filled with toxic casuals like u
"WAR is completely different to DRK" lol
@@thekawaiikat7739 lmao. I kinda giggled when I saw that too but. They are kinda right but not fully. War and Drk both share a burst window and well delirium was basically made to copy inner release because before it would just give flat MP back. Drk right now plays between an odd mix of Gnb and War. Your just bursting like War and then your mitigating like a Gnb.
I think the one the baffles me the most is the Sage and Scholar one. I literally set my buttons up the same way. Literal same way. The only thing that is different is I can play more reactionary, my Shields and dot are 2 button pushes I get 2(?) More offensive spells. Otherwise it plays the same just at a different pace
You didn't watch all or didn't listen to Chairs video judging by your comment.
Dancer got more complicated
The Summoner DOTs take is so damn true, there was no reason to remove it and it would have actually added more complexity to the currently very simplified Summoner. I miss keeping my DOTs up, using Tri Disaster and Fester. I hope the devs add DOTs to Summoner along with Fester.
Switching from Paladin to Warrior I found the cone on Overpower a huge pain in the ass. Half the time I was facing in the wrong direction.
You want niche gameplay that caters to og players and never changes, you'll have a niche game with og players. All MMOs, regardless of their genre, go through class/hero changes. Almost all games with on streamlining play style. Are all the changes will received by everyone all the time? Is it possible, no. Should squeenix bend over backwards for a vocal minority. No. The amount of crying over kaiten is ridiculous. Gameplay rotations are rigid and stuffy. Hopefully one day, the game can actually add some dynamic thought provoking playstyles, and not just have 30 buttons for the sake of pressing one before the other and that's it.
The removal of kaiten basically made the kenki gauge, a dps gauge. Instead of using resources to buff a "Lai" action like Higabana, Setsugekka, or the Aoe, you just attack now. The slippery slope that we are coming up on is respecting the players investment in the game. Because if SE is just going to keep reducing "Buttons" that invalidates invested time for jobs (and what one may consider the jobs Identity) , why stick around? Yeah, jobs are gonna change, but their has to be an equal trade off to the people who are recieving the changes. Not just some consolidation. It makes strong argument for the skill floor and the skill ceiling that is mentioned in the video.
i can tell u didnt watch the vid lol
I think a lot of the problems could be solved by some sort of talent system. Make it so you can play your class easier (i.e. just like how it is today) but also give you the option to make things harder while rewarding you with more damage and stuff. It would also be an opportunity to fix the one thing that makes me say FFXIV is not a perfect game, which is class customization. We're all playing the exact same thing, just dressing it up differently.
I would love talents just for the ability to make classes feel different within themselves. Used to play swtor and i loved talents even tho some were admittedly not as good as others it encouraged creativity in many areas
The problem with this is it would create a situation of Best Builds. Want to raid? Sorry, you can't because you haven't spent enough time grinding on your PLD for them to be considered raid worthy. There's already some people who side eye certain classes for not being meta when the difference is only a few % points, just imagine if there literally were "better" versions of classes. I could see being able to "prestige" classes so that you unlocked cool new visual or skill effects, and I do agree that there should be "easier" and "harder" classes in the same role, but the end stat results should still remain within balance.
@@Strider_Shinryu i agree with you too, i like the idea but i dont want it so certain people got discriminated against due to their builds etc. Tho new animations for moves would be so sickkk, until then im using mods foe my animations
@@Strider_Shinryu Yea. While I love skill trees, it is unfortunate how elite-/meta-/ultra-optimize-focussed the FF14 savage-/ultimate-community is and that the game does not really allow the players choose their own character builds due to many groups only accepting what is BiS.
@Chris Keppler it is entirely possible to have builds *and* good balance in a game. You don't even have to do full talent trees. You could do specializations, artifacts or even just simple perks. Even just a choice between a handful of perks or abilities would add some agency while still being manageable for balance. I'd settle for just more cosmetic options honestly. There are options.
This idea that builds will automatically ruin the balance is just pessimism. XIV players can be a bit weird about this. When I saw DRK flounder for months and SAM suddenly be lamer to play, I stopped believing that One Size Fits All is the only way to make these Jobs work. Builds have problems. The current setup has problems too.
In my honest opinion, the jobs aren't the ones that are the main issue which seems they've been focusing on for the past two expansions, but it's the major gap in content between casuals who only play for the story and the more intermediate players who try to get better at their jobs and play EX, Savage, or Ultimate.
The content is there, but hasn't been touched on in a while if at all (looking at you Deep Dungeon). Gold Saucer, FATEs, Deep Dungeon, Treasure Hunts, all feel like they could use more love and incentive to get people to do them. Gold Saucer could use more rewards and updated features to incentivize people to farm for MGP. Deep Dungeon, most of all, is locked behind having to form a 4 player party after a certain amount of floors which in honest to god I don't understand why that's even a thing in the first place. Treasure Hunts, I've personally never done, but I feel don't often get talked about so maybe could use more love there.
I agree with chair 100% as well about jobs becoming too similar to each other. There was no reason I can think of to remove kaiten other than for them to get players to play reaper. This type of dev mentality is something that I have seen in the Blizzard community as well as some others from previous games I've played so it's nothing new. I understand that a major part of this game is story driven and I also understand that Yoshi P wants to cater to every person that he thinks he can, but that is down right impossible. Why ruin a part of your playerbase to cater to one that doesn't even WANT to go near more challenging content? It doesn't help to dumb down jobs and make them so similar that no one feels like they can identify with the job they chose. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The major hurdle that I see right now is that they're trying to make a Single Player experience in a MULTIPLAYER GAME. This game was originally an MMO, still really is. If I wanted to play a single player game I would've chosen to do so. Please, Yoshi P, do NOT take the MMO experience away from us.
I did SoS through PF. Ez
I honeslty dont agree with this at all, this game is growing in popularity, and I'm a veteran plater (been playing for 7 years).
Still better to be aware of possible risks than turning a blind eye on them, right?
I agree with Chair, that being critical is better than just sugarcoating too much.
The game does that well enough to speak for itself and so do I, in many of my videos.
Nonetheless, sometimes the tone has to change. So that this game can help itself 👌
@@DesperiusFFXIV pointless to criticize ff14. the circlejerk in this game is beyond this world. the game will never get good because of this. the community ruined it with their sycophancy
I am still not giving up until it worked or I make it to work at Square Enix xD
@@DesperiusFFXIV True and that's fine, but this is a small little percentage of what ffxiv has to offer to it's veteran players, not everyone does Ultimate / Savage raids. Infact a ton of people get on to play with their FC, to spend time with friends, to collect mounts and craft. I think this video maybe titled wrong, because as a veteran player I am not hurting one bit, in fact I've grown to love this game more then when I first started my journey in Eorzea.
@@celzolsen8988 i mean say that to the millions that play it, that think it's a good game lol
I've been subbed to ff14 for 2820 days ,and I haven't played since about a month after shadowbringers launch,why?the change to the battle system.i only keep re-subbing to not lose my small fc house I have.i and my wife are it's sole members,it is why I have not stopped subbing.(omega death on famfrit btw if anyone cares).that's all I can say really,after so many years I don't have the will to give it up or stay really invested in playing atm.i absolutely dislike the removal of skill as it pertains to tanks and aggro management.thats it that's the only reason.i still love ff14,and probably will return to actively playing..... eventually.but the changes to the game have made me as a veteran player......yea,not interested atm that and I'm approaching 500 hours in elden ring and I'm more addicted to elden ring than I was when my favorite game was my sole addiction (ff10).but,for all those still enjoying,or have recently started enjoying ff14,I wish you all nothing but fun.
If you cared at all about the story you should at least finish Endwalker. It has a really good conclusion.
@@natediaz1863 yeah I feel ya.story in ff14 is top notch,I'm positive I will enjoy it.i don't have any plans to abandon ff14, definitely not before I finish up the story.im definitely glad to hear from pretty much everyone,and any one how good the story is,so with all the changes made over the years I'm very glad that hasn't changed. 👍
Viable.VIABLE.
Best discussion video so far 🙂
>game to easy
>has no ultimate weapons
>argument invalid
These FFXIV youtubers are disconected with the avarage player, yeah chair the game is gonna feel easy and yes Xenos its gonna feel stale after a while.
Once you've put thousands of hours into something it will inevitability start feel less fun.
tell that to people who've been playing smash melee since before the fuckin twin towers fell and still enjoy the shit out of it LMAO
I've been maining monk and I like it so far. Simple rotation, constant combos, not too hard for a tired old mind like mine to keep straight. The fighting is fun. Running around constantly to avoid glowy shit is not. I don't want to do high-end content. The only thing that bothers me in this game is that the MSQ requires me to do trials and raids, and I don't really want to do that stuff. And it gets increasingly more complex with the mechanics. I didn't enjoy Praetorium. I just wished it would end, and never want to go through an experience like that again. All I want as a filthy casual is to be able to get through the MSQ without going through punishing content that I normally avoid like the plague. The solo MSQ duties and low-mechanics dungeons and trials are good enough for me.
You realize this is an MMO right?
U just wanna run around fighting mobs all game tf
@@raptorking3678 I'm not sure where you feel I don't understand that. MMO doesn't mean just trials and raids or punishing mechanics.
@@azurlune1877 Yes, I do. That's why I chose a fighting job. If I wanted to dance I'd buy Dance Dance Revolution.
I get where your coming from as a filthy casual myself, but some of the best moments of msq are in those trial fights, and I understand that dodging circles on the ground may feel weird but 1. Can’t have a real fight without being hit back right? 2. It’s cool (at least to me) when you just barely make it out of the attack and resume your combo. I do dislike when it comes to the point where you are just standing in a spot waiting for the circle to disappear before resuming your combo. I do hope one day these trials and raids can all be converted into the new duty support system and people who like to play solo will finally have a true single player Final Fantasy experience.
They should feel free to play the disaster that is WoW that ignores casuals to treat raiders as speshiul therefore completely destroying the game for casual players because omg we can’t give good things else raiders will complain.
Ff14 is doing the right thing by ignoring the tryhards
I dunno man, I’m casual af and I loved how Katen felt on SAM. And healers could do with something more interesting than a one-button DPS rotation. I think there’s a balance between making things accessible and keeping that rewarding level of complexity for folks who strive to improve.
Ngl i havent played for awhile because i find the game boring nowadays. I hope something changes
speedran.
-Turn skills sytems to just 3 buttons like pvp
-Every time you die you lose exp and lvs
-If you took 2 hits you are death even if you are full heal like DelebrumReginae
-Add more savage raids and zoNES on aRR to keep new hard core players hoked.
soso, der despi will mythik xD
*GIVING PEOPLE A GUN.*
*THEN ASKING THEM TO BE NICE.*
*IS NOT REALISTIC.*
*ITS NOT A MATTER OF "IF" --- ITS A MATTER OF "WHEN"*
PVP is the worst that everyone is the exact same lol, as a old pvp player the new pvp after 4.0 completely drove me away
Your point of savage being a huge time sink is something that really needs to stop being spread around. My static has the most inconsistent raid schedule and we typically can only raid 1-2 times a week for 1.5-2 hours per night we raid. We cleared this tiers savage content 2 weeks ago and are working on reclears. Savage is not a huge time sink. If you haven't tried savage stop speculating on how much time and effort it takes to complete the content. We are fairly average players too.
Its more about Ultimate, Savage is not a problem
@@DesperiusFFXIV Gotcha, I thought you were referring to savage for that bit, I agree with you on Ultimate, major time sink that requires more time than most can afford to put in.
@@DesperiusFFXIV The issue with that being is that we already know just how little of the overall player base engages with that content even less so that do it successfully. Those that do typically have the time to invest in such a time sink. And with them coming out fairly far apart I am not really sure that it really enhances the arguments being made. For my, Ultimates is like the game advertising department. You have it there so that folks to watch it moreso than play it, which is what a large majority of the players will do.
Only thing i hate in FF14 is how something called "expert roulette" is so braindead easy... I don't like FF14 idea of hard content being "insta teleport to that boss. Do the boss". I like dungeons A LOT. This is classic RPG content. Just make them harder. Elden Ring show that people WANT harder games. In the casual harder ways.
Problem with savage is that you need to get guild... friends... discord etc. There should be something other than "braindead easy" - "hard". Middle ground. Where you need 2 braincells to do but don't need building whole communities around. IE. Like Mythic+ in WoW or any endless dungeon progression in games.
Let’s all play our jobs until they turn into 1 button lol like pvp
I really wish chair and people like him just quit the game and play something else so we don't have to have their selfishness around who cares if the 1% is mad about good changes to the game
Wow this is toxic af. People are genuinely upset that classes that they put time and effort into learning have been dumbed down. They’re free to speak out and be heard.
@@Theguyoverthere603 more people are happy than mad so who cares if the 1% that want everything to be extremely hard and overly complex just for the sake of it are mad raiders need to understand more types of players play the game to 14 doesn't revolve around them that just because they want something doesn't mean the devs have to do it people
@@elvangulley3210 Show me these “more people” who are happy that Kaiten was removed from SAM. Show me, compared to the vast majority who were outraged on both the FFXIV reddit and forums when the changes were announced. Show me these people.
@@elvangulley3210 show me the people happy about SMN changes?
For a diehard FF fan like me I can say FFXIV is seriously dated ...I really don't think it has many more years. If they run it for more than 5 years from now they are making a huge mistake. Graphics, engine, player progression is seriously outdated ..I really hope they realise this.
The graphics are going to be updated by the next expansion. Regarding everything else, yeah it’s outdated. The story has already been confirmed to be packed with at least several years of content. This is Yoshidas “life’s work” I don’t think he plans on stopping anytime soon, nor do I agree that he is making a huge mistake.
Based on what we’ve seen in other games I don’t think an MMO being dated is any indication of how long it’ll last lol
theres 4 roles, 19 jobs and u cant even gear up alt job, rolling for loots is miserable, tomestone cap is miserable,
it takes forever to get gears
So is FF11 and that came out in '02!
Bruh. You don't like the game. Stop play it. You like it keep play it. No ones give a F for your opinion or if you stop or play the game. Problem solved.
Jesus, why so toxic
It's an interesting topic for sure. I feel like certain classes like Astro and Black Mage should always be complex and have a high skill ceiling. At the same time, I feel that other classes should not be so dumb and complex for silly reasons like Monk and positionals. I love what they did to Monk currently and think it's a great example of progressing in the right direction.
I don't agree that everything is homogenized completely tho, such as Paladin, GNB, MNK, BLM. I just think the thought process behind certain changes was that the devs saw certain classes being considered "too good" and wanted to make all the other jobs in line with that and so they gave them a few similar tools. This is all a typical dev issue of when is it time to not listen so much to fans who complain and what is good for the games progression.