In a power outage situation where I live if I can keep the heat on and the fridge cold that's all I really need any thing else is a nice to have. I purchased two of these switches to run my furnace and fridge during a power outage in the winter, and my fridge in the summer. The switch is of high quality with easy to understand instructions and most import it is certified, unlike some if not all switches from overseas. I highly recommend this switch.
Greetings - ~1:13 you stated the Ground Rod in a "floating" unbonded generator was to keep you from being shocked. Keep in mind that is not what the ground rod is for nor will it provide enough of a low-impedance path from the frame, to the structure's GES and then back to the generator to trip an onboard OCPD. The manufacturers call for ground rods when the actual generator is being utilized as a separately derived system, meaning the neutral (grounded) conductor is being switched along with the ungrounded conductors as well. Now, It may have been helpful for viewers to also know that an EGC (Equipment Grounding Conductor) would also be installed in either system layout since they are feeders in evolved in the electrical layout.
If you use the 4 conductor 50 Amp NEMA 14-50R plug on a generator that will connect the ground of the generator to the grounding system of the home through the panel? Obviously, you would disconnect the bond inside the generator use the bond in the main panel. The frame of the generator should get a good ground though that. Portable generators are just that portable with a flexible cord plug into an outlet that feeds the panel and an interlock device is used.
I have a brand new WEN and a new EZ box Switch. The model of the WEN is 2000 W inverter # 56203i . I just want to make sure that removing the three white lines and making the jumper longer is correct for my installation.
The questions that comes to mind looking at your explanation is. How about if the neutral is not bonded on the main panel as it should and the hot is supplying a feed on the panel with the main breaker off. Does it still posses a risk to utility workers? Since the neutral still goes back to the utility pole.? Or does it present more of a danger when is bonded since it would be like having a main panel and a subpanel bonded on both sides.?
I finally hit open this situation of all my years in mechanic work construction work and just an overall DYI for cash. So I was very confused when I found both my receptacles "hot" Thank you for explaining this Ill sleep easy knowing what I had done and thought was correct and helped me win a few arguments. lol
Excellent video - I am currently shopping for a recreation/backup generator and it looks like no matter which one ( Bonded or floating Neutral) a person has it is important that the generator itself is grounded. The Westinghouse worksite generators all have the Bonded neutral with GFCI outlets and the models that plug directly into an RV have Floating neutral & non-GFCI outlets. I was worried about using power tools with a Floating neutral generator but it looks like its ok as long as the generator itself is properly grounded.
People are way too wrapped up in bonded or floating. Some of your best generators Honda and Yamaha are floating. If you bond the frame of the generator to a ground rod as per manufactures recommendations everything will be OK!
Ground rods are for lightning strike protection for the equipment. Ground wire is the return to trip circuit protection only if return path is to neutral, bonded in generator or at the house panel you are powering.
Recently there have been discussions about how to power the home using the 240v 30A connection from the bed of a Ford F-150 Lightning. The output from the Ford is a bonded neutral source and people have found that the GFCI in the Ford trips when connected to their transfer switch. I gather this is because of the switch neutral connection to the house panel where the neutral is grounded/bonded. So for a bonded neutral generator/source such as the Ford Lightning, it seems the answer is to not have a neutral connection from the switch to the house panel neutral or ground bar, as your diagram seems to indicate, thereby isolating the generator neutral from the house panel. All modern house light circuits (you use a light as an example) consist of hot, neutral and ground. Their neutral wire is connected to the neutral or ground bar in the panel as is their ground wire. Your diagram did not show the ground connection from the generator to the house panel trough the transfer switch. However, a 240V generator output connection to the transfer switch is a 4 wire connection, 2 hot, 1 neutral and 1 ground. Is the ground wire from the generator also disconnected from the panel through the transfer switch, but connected to the light circuit? Is the house light circuit then adequately grounded via the generator ground? Does that mean for each house circuit, the transfer switch uses 3 wires, hot neutral and ground and all three are switched? Or does the transfer switch disconnect the house circuit neutral bar from the house ground bar (unbond) when using the generator but still uses the house neutral and ground circuitry/bars that it has unbonded to power and protect the house circuits? I have seen advertisements that refer to GFI transfer switches for bonded generator/sources. Is that what you have described?
Just got device. I notice the red "line" wire is attached to generator side of switch and the black is middle and blue coming from inlet is on Normal side of switch. Shouldnt the line (red) be on the normal switch side since its providing power from panel in normal mode? and the blue from inlet to the generator side of switch?
Looking at the back of the switch red is on top, black is in the middle and blue is on the bottom. Please do not change this configuration. It is correct.
So if you’re just installing a common 10 circuit transfer switch in your house. Your house panel is bonded you use a floating neutral generator? But if you have a transfer switch that can isolate your neutral from the main panel, then a bonded neutral generator would work? I think it finally clicked! Thanks for your video!
Thanks for this video. This is great but.... I've been told that we must never have 2 ground either as it may cause a ground loop. So the ground off the generator is carried to the transfer switch, which is also tied to the ground of the main panel. But even if the transfer switch does disconnect the neutral, the neutral could still be connected through the generator via the ground. My new generator is bounded. So I'm not sure what to do now with this ground issue.
At 1:19 you say your switch physically connects the neutral to the existing house neutral, then at 2:12 you say your switch separates the neutral from the house neutral. Which is it?
I have a Honda EU2200i generator with the floating neutral. Will i need to purchase a neutral ground bonding plug to run my gas furnace during a power outage?
I’m having a generator installed you know for the outages we get , my thing is when I’m looking into what I’m going to be paying for bonding the neutral to the fuse box in a power outage with the generator running will that make the line live from the neutral line Back-feeding to the grid ? If my house will be hot I will turn off the main .
Thank you. Well explained. I have a floating neutral generator and called the manufacturer in regards to proper bonding. The tech guy said to make sure the panel was bonded but to cut off the ground plug going into the generator. Does this make any sense to you? Seems to me like you said if the hot or neutral line in the genny touches the frame and someone grabs it, ouch!
Hello: Thank you very much for replying but this is my situation, which is killing me, I have a Honda gen, floating neutral, if I measure hot to neutral is 120 volts, hot to ground is 60 volts, neutral is 60 volts, I can plug anything and it works fine, plug in tester shows missing ground only, my concern is that if I try to connect to breaker panel I would be sending 60 volts to the neutral, my panel it has a non grounded neutral connection and that is maybe because it is considered a subpanel, main panel (Meter) is outside with only a few breakers for the pool equipment, all the breakers are in a 200 amp panel in the garage with a 200 amp disconnect breaker, any idea would be greatly appreciated, I really want to connect a few breakers in a case of emergency, Thank you very much for your willing to help.
Sub panels are not allowed to ground the neutral and the unbalance of the load is carried back to the main panel where neutral is grounded. Our switch will ground your neutral in the generator and connect it to the neutral in the main panel. You will be fine.
Hi sir good explanation, can i ask what happen neutral failed. what happen to the alternator or other equipement in the generator ? for example like the winding might get hot or something ?
QUESTION: why would you want TWO grounded points if you use the house grounding? what if you just bonded the generator frame to the neutral on the generator?
Great... a little clearer. I’m in the Philippines and in the process of installing an ATS and Engine controller. The engine controller requires a L and N as feedback... so while trying to determine which wire was L and N I measured to ground each of the wires. To my surprise both had volts. One had 130v, the other 70v. Why would this be? Seems by looking at your video it could be a floating neutral? Interested in your view in this, and what should I do? There is no grounding rod (which also concerns me, but there is a grounding post on the generator. Perhaps I just need to install a grounding rod?
you explained bonded neutral and floating neutral generators very clearly, thank you. can generator be bonded to ground wire in the house or we need to use ground rod specifically for generator?
@@EZgeneratorswitch Doesn't that depend on whether the generator is a bonded- or floating-neutral?? If it's a bonded neutral generator, you wouldn't want to bond your generator frame to the house panel ground would you?
Question: I am trying to wire a BONDED INVERTER that sits on a cart with a 3kWh set of LiFePO4 batteries. There is no grounding of the inverter to a rod since it is mobile. Would you connect the ground (which is bonded to the neutral) of the inverter to the ground cables? This is NOT connected close to a panel, but it is near a HVAC system so the "grounding rod" is some 50 ft away. Thanks.
Bonded inverter? Both legs are normally floating. You can't bond either leg to ground, you will burn up the inverter... Or ... Are you talking about a inverter generator? They are normally floating also.
So if I take an ohmmeter and there is zero resistance between the neutral and the frame then I have a floating neutral generator? My generator documentation does not tell me which it has. Thanks!
Goldenboy Productions question: I have 4 wire ( 2 hot, 1 N, 1Ground) #6 copper conductor flexible cable connected to the bonded generator. If I unwire my subpanel breaker inside the main panel and splice the two hot wires can I then connect N on my gen wire to the neutral bar and ground on my gen wire to the ground bar inside the main panel?
@@adamhamilton3757 going thru all that is just wrong. If you want to energize your entire sub panels either get a transfer switch or a lock system. In addition can your gen set handle the entire load? Get the total amps and add 25%
EZ Generator Switch I have one now. After breaking L1 and L2 through the transfer switch Can I connect my bonded generator to house neutral and house ground?
I have a portable generator with bonded neutral and GFCI outlets. I have connected it to my main panel via 50 amp inlet and breaker (yes, I installed an interlock). The neutral and ground from the inlet are connected to the neutral and ground bus in the main panel, respectively. My questions are, do I need to ground my generator? If so, can I just attach it to the main ground rod? Do I need to convert my generator to floating neutral, so it is not bonded in two places? If it's not easily converted (ie jumper) what are my options? Please advise.
Yes, yes, hire and electrician, they need to alter how it is wired inside the socket. You are really better off just buying the right kind rather then altering it. Champion has videos about how to change their. Most manufacturer's do not even tell you what to do.
I have a neutrally bonded inverter that I want to connect to one side of a square d 100 amp panel for a garden shed for solar . Can I connect the neutral from the inverter to the neutral in the panel and the hot to the hot without creating a ground loop? Do I need to connect the case of the inverter to the ground/neutral inside the panel? Thanks
You have several things going on here. First it's a violation to connect to one phase of a panel. You need a different type of transfer switch and the switch would need to be rated at 100 amps or what ever the main is rated for. Your issue isn't a ground loop. Your inverter should be grounded to a ground connection not the neutral. If you want to send me a diagram we can try and help . But you definitely need a transfer switch to it isolate the inverter from normal power.
250.34 Portable and Vehicle-Mounted Generators. (A) Portable Generators. The frame of a portable generator shall not be required to be connected to a grounding electrode as defined in 250.52 for a system supplied by the generator under the following conditions: (1) The generator supplies only equipment mounted on the generator, cord-and-plug-connected equipment through receptacles mounted on the generator, or both, and (2) The normally non-current-carrying metal parts of equipment and the equipment grounding conductor terminals of the receptacles are connected to the generator frame.
My generator has "neutral bonded to frame" on the generator panel. I can directly run a 6/3 cable to the sub panel inside my home that's being fed from a main panel outside my home. The outside main panel is neutral - ground bonded. But here's the thing, that neutral ground bond is no longer valid inside my sub panel once I use the Interlock switch that disconnects the sub panel from the outside main panel when I run my generator so I can't back feed generator power to the grid. So how should my generator be set? Should I leave it alone or should I disconnect the neutral wire from the generator's frame?
So you understand your interlock on the main panel is probably a 30 or 40 so your generator size needs to be a 8 or 10 kw. Neutral bonded is fine...however Interlocks don't switch the neutral so you have no choice, just one reason we don't care for them. Your generator needs to meet your load and Interlocks give people the idea you can run your whole house....you can only run the kw output of your gen set. They give you more versatility to choose circuits nothing more. Way too much room for error to burn your gen set life in half. Your sub panel alone having a 60 amp feed would require a 14 kw gen set. Hope you understand but if you have more questions just ask!
Is the generator ground rod really necessary if neutral is already tied to ground in the breaker panel? I suppose you could get a few volts drop along the neutral wire between the generator and the breaker panel, but is this enough to cause a serious electrical shock on a bonded neutral generator? If the neutral is floating, a few volts on the neutral at the generator won't show up on the generator's frame, because it is isolated. I would think connecting neutral and ground on both ends (breaker panel and at the generator) would be a bad idea, because you would have neutral (return) currents flowing on the ground wire, and be connected to the frame of the generator. Is that why you need a ground rod for the bonded neutral generator?
Ground rod is for one reason only...Fault current. Any generator that has a fault to the frame has no where to go because most generators are mounted on rubber feet.... Until you touch it! Ground rods are good, doesn't have to be a 8' rod... Something to dissipate the potential.
@@EZgeneratorswitch, From NFPA 110: 6.2.15* Isolation of Neutral Conductors. Provisions shall be included for ensuring continuity, transfer, and isolation of the primary and the EPS neutral conductors wherever they are separately grounded to achieve ground-fault sensing. EPS stands for "Emergency Power System" Translation: If you connect the neutrals (home and generator) and ground them at both ends, you'll cause GFI's to trip. The return currents on the ground system are also a potential (pun not intended) safety hazard. The fix is to make sure the neutral is only grounded at the generator, or at the load, not both. Here is a website you should probably read. www.ecmweb.com/content/article/20885413/solid-grounding-for-your-generator I'm an electrical engineer BTW.
@@EZgeneratorswitch I know they like them to be over 6 feet but how much is really needed for safety, I will be drawing less then 100 watts if that makes any difference, so 1A. Doe the wire need a minimal gauge??
I was searching for whether or not it was important to disconnect the neutral from my generator when using the power grid as well as disconnecting the grid's neutral when using my generator. From my power meter, I feed a three wire system and my neutral and grounding rod are connected. My generator is 21KW, located about 10' from my meter pole and powers my system through a DIY interlock blocking energizing of the main breaker from the meter when the 100A generator breaker is energized closed and visa versa (couldn't find an 87.5A breaker). (Question 1.) Is it safe/okay to leave the generator's neutral/ground connected to the box with the grid powering my box? (Question 2.) Is is safe/okay to leave the grid's neutral/ground connected to the box with the generator powering my box? (Also.) Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated.
I think I found my answers in another of your videos, "Why Approved Transfer Switches ...". Any suggestions like how to "right size" the breaker feeding my panel for a 21kw generator are still appreciated.
No, grounding the frame in any generator is not related to the neutral (per say). It simply means the neutral is bonded (connected) to the frame. So therfore a floating neutral is not connected to the frame. In either case the connecting the frame to ground is in case of a fault. If the hot leg shorts to the case the frame would not be "hot".... Just waiting for you to touch it. Regarding neutrals - - - this is all about the neutral in any system is connected to ground at the source only. Never to be grounded anywhere else. What is trying to be achieved is the balance or return path of current to be dissapated at the source only not in multiple locations.
If there is a separate ground bar place it there. However in many main service panels you will find the grounds and neutral mounted to the same bar. Sub panels require insulated neutrals and separate ground bar termination.
Great video but I have one question. This is assuming you have a ground rod at the generator. According to NEC you don't need one if certain rules are met and also my manufacturer (Westinghouse) does not say they require it. So, if I keep neutral and ground bonded at the generator (just the frame) and do not use a rod at generator, is this acceptable? The plan I have, which is hard to find grounding info on, is to connect 50A inlet direct to main house panel via 50A feeder with interlock to the main so I can utilize my main panel's ground. I have read so many people go back and forth on what is correct I am tired of reading it on the internet. Some say neutral to have one ground and meet codes, others say you are fine by using panel's ground. The others say if you keep it bonded it could put current on your gen frame. Right now, my best guess is remove the jumper and use a ground rod. But my brother who is an electrician says keep bonding jumper at gen and no rod required. What do you think?
So you have a bonded neutral generator. Your neutral is bonded so you should not bond it again (NEC). So our switch is the Only switch that separates the house neutral from the generator neutral. Meeting the code. Let's address the ground rod... Your house neutral is bonded at the panel and connected to a ground rod. Code... So it's the same as connecting a ground rod at your generator.. Not connecting to a ground rod is foolish no matter what style generator you own. If it's bonded it now acts like your house. If it's floating it's assuring you if there is a fault to the case it will dissipate to ground not shock you. Next your 50 amp inlet... It will require you use a generator to match the load...50amps...
Nolarentals, sorry I don't think I answered this. You are correct if certain rules are met. However my b opinion is as follows. I always want a ground rod, I want the safety of the generator frame connected to ground. Either a bonded or floating neutral it's nice to know if something shorts to the frame I have no issues.
Hi, Can you get a shock from an appliance that develops a fault and let's say it's at a 220V potential if the whole system is floating and it's not grounded? I'm asking this question thinking why would the current want to travel to earth if the inverter/generator is not earthed so there is no ground loop for current to flow through. So would the current still want to go to earth. Or still shock you and why I've been trying to get a question for this on the internet with no hope. So in summary Can a faulty appliance case at high voltage electrocute you if the whole system is floating? I'm thinking this for setting up a floating solar PV system with a 220V inverter
You are confusing a floating neutral with an equipment ground. The green, green with yellow or bare wire is your equipment grounding conductor. When your appliance faults and a phase leg touches the casing that fault travels on the green wire to earth at the same time your breaker would trip because it sees that fault.
Great explanation, I have one of these 12V inverter generating a Pure sine wave single phase AC. I tested for continuity and neutral seems to be floating. Can I plug it on a single pole switch or I need two poles switch ?
Darrell it has nothing to do with floating or bonded neutral generator. The manufacturer recommendations are bond the frame of the gen set in all cases. I see no problem with bonding to an existing ground rod with an independent grounding conductor. Not using the panels grounding conductor.
@@EZgeneratorswitch if the generator is hooked up to a receptacle that leads back to a transfer switch which leads back to the panel, does the generator still need to be grounded? I don't get why it would this way, because the transfer switch and panel is grounded
I have a question, it is my understanding that if the added power supply is a inverter, that the inverter can not handle a neutral to earth ground bond because that (for some reason, I do not know why) will destroy the inverter, I am not sure if this is also true of a inverter generator. I thought that was why inverter generators did not have a bonded neutral, the only way I was able to resolve this problem in my house was to add an isolation transformer between the inverter and the transfer switch. Do you have any thoughts on this you can share ???
Ray, Berger just saw this on the thread so I apologize for not getting back 2u. So simply put the inverter has no connection with either leg to ground as the NEC rules requires. Either leg can be the hot or the neutral. So if you ground either leg you will cook the inverter. Our switch will allow you to switch both legs and Thereby allowing the inverter to do its job. You added a isolation transformer and are using power in doing so. Even if there is no load, the transformer is a load itself.
@@EZgeneratorswitch So, if my generator is bonded neutral, and I'm using it to power my house with a chord from the 240volt receptacle, wherein the 2 hots go into a bi-pole breaker at the panel, and the neutral and ground wires go directly into the respective busses at the panel, is the generator safely grounded?? Is there still a risk of electrocution by touching the generator frame? With this set-up, should I disconnect the neutral to ground bond of the generator to avoid this possibility?
@@spectreskeptic3493 Yes I did. There should only be one neutral to ground bond in the system, so it is preferable to have a floating neutral at the generator, whereby the ground circuit coming out of the generator is routed to the main panel grounding stakes (through the ground bus). This assumes that the generator is only being used for electrical backup to a house. The generator should be configured as a bonded neutral if it is being used in the field. Using an additional grounding rod at the generator, when it is used as a house back-up is not really going to help; in fact, if the generator grounding rod is close to the grounding rod(s) of the house main panel, it could case an unwanted ground loop. Wiring a ground rod to generator being used @in the field” is a good idea however, and is actually mandated.
I have a floating neutral generator. How do I know if the emergency panel in the house is wired to provide a link to the house neutral, thus grounding the generator?
Peter Teitelbaum... Not sure I understand why you have a emergency panel in a house? But either way that neutral is insulated and the return path is back to the main panel connected to the neutral bus which is connected (grounded) to the ground bus and connected to 2 approved ground sources.
@@EZgeneratorswitch Thanks for the quick reply. There is an emergency panel beside the main breaker panel in the house. In the event of a power outage, I would turn all the breakers of the main panel to OFF except those items I want power to flow to from the generator. I then flip a switch in the emergency panel which disconnects the usual electrical supply and instead connects the main panel to the generator supply. At least that's how I understand it.
@@peterteitelbaum2858 OK... The emergency panel has everyday circuits in it. There is probably a lockout on that panel that allows the generator to feed the panel but not backfeed into the regular panel. Our switch will work in any of those panels as a backup for heat. The neutrals are insulated and carry back to the regular panel neutral.
@@EZgeneratorswitch Thanks for your patience and not sure if you can answer this: The set-up I described was done years before I bought the cottage. Is it possible that it was set up for a bonded-neutral generator only or can I be confident that it is safe to use my floating-neutral generator without grounding it?
Gene... If it's a newer gen set.. right where you plug in it says floating or bonded neutral. Older units need to be tested. Gen set off and with a continuity tester, plug one probe into the standard outlet at 9 o'clock position, the other touch a clean spot such as a bolt on the frame. Continuity = bonded / no continuity = floating
1:08 You would not get a shock in this instance because there is no potential between the energized case and the ground (or anything else except the neutral conductor on the genset)
If you are talking about grounds. Every gen set should be grounded per manufactures recommendation. Why???? Because if there is a fault inside the gen set that fault uses the ground to disapate the potential not using an individual as a path. We never know when there could be a fault... Ground the gen set.
@@EZgeneratorswitch There is no potential between the ground and the gen. If there is a fault inside the gen that causes the case to become energized, and you then touched that energized case while also touching a ground rod, nothing will happen, because there is no potential between the ground and the gen. There is no complete circuit in this case, therefor no current flow, and no shock hazard.
I'm confused as to why any generator has a bonded neutral, unless there was a switch on the genny to make it a floating neutral. Based on your explanation, if a generator is connected to a house, say with an interlock (legal) or through a dryer outlet with a suicide cord (illegal), the generator should have a floating neutral. And its because the bonding is done in the service panel. My issue is that it seems most large generators come with a bonded neutral. If that's the cause, what problems can it cause having a bond at the genny and in the home?
You want your neutral to be bonded at one location. What you don't want is multiple paths for current flow. Your house has a bonded neutral...so a bonded neutral generator would be providing that scenario. But, On the other hand most inverters all need to have both legs floating so working with a generator it would need to be floating otherwise you cook the inverter. Also using a gfci outlet from a generator the switch must switch both legs or the gfci see's the additional bond of the neutral in your panel and trips.
@@EZgeneratorswitch "On the other hand most inverters all need to have both legs floating so working with a generator it would need to be floating otherwise you cook the inverter." Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it reads to me that inverter generators need to have a floating neutral. This is whether it's connected to a house or not. Outside of OSHA requirements to have a bonded neutral at a job site where the generator is standalone, it seems to make no sense to bond the neutral on any generator.
@@crabjoe I was speaking about an inverter ...not a inverter generator. That's what I meant about having both legs floating. Sorry should have been clearer. Yes inverter generators are floating (don't think I have found one that is not). Bonded neutral generators are a must for a GFCI. so this is what we see at job sites (mostly) The GFCI needs to see hot to ground, hot to neutral and neutral to ground to work efficiently. This is a difficult topic and probably the most discussed in the industry.
@@ezgeneratorswitch4u Can you tell me how a generator like the B&S Q6500 works? It's an inverter generator with GFCI. I have a feeling that if it were to be connected to a home that didn't have a GFI transfer switch it's going to trip the GFCI breaker on the generator or maybe even the house? On such a generator, if one were to remove the neutral bond, would it cause any problems? BTW, GFCI brings up another thing.. Is is the bonded neutral needed? I'm asking because you can have GFCI without a ground and from my understanding, it's allowed as long as it's marked to that effect.
@@EZgeneratorswitch This is the answer I have been looking for, I installed a Reliance transfer switch on my sisters furnace, but it only switches the line, and when she plugs in her Generac 7500GP it trips the built in GFI. So I guess I need to switch both the Line and the Neutral in the transfer box/ Thank you.
Hello, I’m using my DuroMax12000EH Generator as a power back-up to my house for when the grid goes down. I’m feeding power from the generator directly into my house breaker panel (with an approved interlock device) from the generator’s 50amp 240volt receptacle. The two hot leads go directly into a bipole 50amp breaker on the panel, and the neutral and ground wires go (unswitched) directly into the respective neutral and ground busses in the panel. Because it is my house’s primary panel, the neutral and ground busses are connected together. Because there is a ground circuit established with the generator using this particular set-up, it is redundant, and I believe problematic, to ground the generator frame to a grounding rod as well. Further, it would be prudent to eliminate the possibility of grounding the generator through the frame via a circuit made by a human body! Based on a review of my generator, the neutral and ground are bonded to the generator frame. Therefore, I believe it would be prudent to eliminate the grounding bond to the generator frame and let the ground at the house panel serve as the grounding circuit. Are you familiar with this overall grounding question/issue and with this approach to remediating the issue? I’m trying to be as safe/careful as possible! Thanks for your guidance.
Just adding to the above: You say that with a bonded-neutral generator "the neutral is already bonded so we can't bond it again." Not sure why not?? But you're suggesting that if I connect my generator to my house panel as described above, I would ostensibly need to make it a floating neutral generator by removing the bond at the generator. Yes?
@@toddlaroche5831 Todd i have the same question... I hooked up my DuroMax 10000EH to my main panel with an approved interlock and 4 wire receptacle only to find that it started smoking on the ground contact despite everything working in the house. The receptacle receiving power from the generator and feeding the house allows both neutral and ground connections that are both connected to the neutral bus bar in the main panel. i double and triple checked everything. Waiting on monday to call duromax before i run it again to ask why the ground contact got too hot, meaning should the ground returning from the generator NOT be connected to the main panel but instead be connected to an 8' ground rod from the chassis? My understanding is that these duromax generators have floating neutrals which don't require a ground rod and it's acceptable to ground it at the main panel on the neutral bus bar where the ground and neutral are combined.
Jason Thompson Here’s what ive found out: DuroMax calls my generator (and I’m betting yours) a floating neutral. This is misleading because there IS a jumper between the neutral and ground in the generator. Take off the generator cover and I bet you’ll see it. You can also confirm that the neutral and the ground are bonded with a simple continuity check - test for continuity at any of the generator receptacles between the neutral and ground pins (neutral pin is on the left side of the receptacle). If you get a closed circuit you’ve got a bonded neutral. DuroMax calls the generator a “floating neutral” because it’s bonded at the generator casing, not the frame. But if you’re using their generator to power your house, it’s important to understand the difference here. So, if your generator is a bonded neutral, and you’ve got a ground wire in the cord that goes from the generator to the main panel (where, by code, the neutral and ground are bonded), you’ve got your neutral circuit energized because it’s bonded to neutral in 2 places... it’s serving as a “parallel neutral.” That’s why you should remove the jumper in the generator with your set-up. DuroMax will tell you that the way to properly ground the generator is to use a grounding pole to the generator grounding nut and to remove the ground circuit going from the generator to the panel. I spoke to Rob at DuroMax about all of this... ask to speak with him if you can! Honestly, I’m not sure I’ll follow their suggestion. I don’t want to be driving in an 8’ ground rod near my generator and hooking it up to a ground pole there whenever I use the generator, when I know I can ground it with the existing, already approved, grounding circuit at my main panel. Again, just have to make sure the generator is a real floating neutral to do it that way. Good luck with it; let me know where you land!
Spoke to Rob, and because the the ground and neutral are indeed bonded at the generator making it a "floating neutral" you eliminate the ground at the twist lock receptacle that goes back to the main sub panel. Having the ground connected at the receptacle as well as a neutral conductor creates a "power loop" thus allowing a stray current to flow on an alternate circular path and this is what smoked my plug on the ground contact. Essentially, the two line leads 240/120V support power, the neutral and ground bonded to return the unbalanced load on any 120V circuits and a bonded ground to an earth path to a rod in the ground connected to the chassis bond lug is what needs to be wired for proper and safe operation. Thanks for your assistance Todd and Rob!
The proper term is "Isolated Neutral" . Of course that is merely one component of a "floating power source". Many equipment will use a double poll switch to completely isolate the power source(except for ground). "Floating Neutral' is more commonly used to denote a 120 volt or balanced 240 volt circuit where the neutral line has become disconnected while hot lines are energized and that can be a dangerous situation. Normally neutral bonds to ground at one point in the system except in special cases determined by the power company : Sometimes redundant earth grounds are used if a possibility of one ground breaking exists. Panels and boxes are always earth grounded in some way, unless they are plastic.
No, Not isolated neutral, its floating neutral it is "not connected to ground". On your generator receptacle there is no continuity between 9 o'clock and the frame of the generator on a floating neutral generator. Isolated neutral is one that is separated from other neutrals like in emergency systems for hospitals. NEC 2017 NFPA have removed the term isolated neutral from the definitions and index locations. We manufacture and are the only company who offers a switch with double pole double throw center position off to accommodate existing "Bonded neutral" generators and instances where GFCI and Arc faults are incorporated into a circuit. Solar systems and inverters also require neutral switching to avoid destroying the supply. Regarding power company requirements, All neutrals in residential and commercial services are connected to ground at the first point means of disconnect (main service panel not sub panels). In addition the requirement is redundant grounds, meaning at least two means of bonding the neutral to ground via two ground rods, water service, steel plate, etc NEC 250-52 . Plastic boxes are required to contain a separate ground such as you find in romex. The ground must be continuous between each box and terminations must be made with approved means. Lastly, a neutral is never a ground until they bond at the main panel for the two primary reasons, A ground is only there for fault current and should never have any current on it. Unlike the neutral which carries the unbalance load back to the panel and carries potential to complete a circuit.
@@ezgeneratorswitch4u So your generator is like an isolation transformer. But I stand updated on the "terms". You isolate the ground and float the winding. Or you can ground the case and ground is still isolated from the floating winding. Sure, floating neutral generators are used for systems which already have a grounded neutral. And of course it is a balanced floating winding with neutral as the center-tap, if that is for 240 volt split-phase service. It is a floating potential that is grounded by your system's own ground. I still do not like the term floating neutral -- cause that can refer to an open circuit fault in the neutral path. Maybe an "isolated ground generator" would sound confusing though it would mean the same thing as floating winding in whole.
100% of portable generators will have the ground and neutral bonded sold today. They all come with GFCI receptacles which require it. Lot of them have instructions how to un-bond it. The problem is people a portable generator to run tools lot of times those extension cords are not in good shape. People let the cord fall in a pool, or water puddles. Manufacturers have to include GFCI likely required by law.
This generator has floating neutral, but I want to change it to bonded when using the two 120v receptacles in stand-alone mode. Where should I make a connection, along with using a toggle switch, to temporary bond the neutral? www.championpowerequipment.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/201056-EPL-English.pdf
Excellent video! No annoying music, quick intro and straight to the point.
Thank you we appreciate your response!
In a power outage situation where I live if I can keep the heat on and the fridge cold that's all I really need any thing else is a nice to have. I purchased two of these switches to run my furnace and fridge during a power outage in the winter, and my fridge in the summer. The switch is of high quality with easy to understand instructions and most import it is certified, unlike some if not all switches from overseas. I highly recommend this switch.
Great explanation and helped me figure out what type of ground I needed for my floating neutral generator.
Thank you... Any questions just send a e mail we will help
Thank you for a straight forward answer. Thank you for taking the time to help others.
Exactly what I was looking for!!!
Thanks
Greetings - ~1:13 you stated the Ground Rod in a "floating" unbonded generator was to keep you from being shocked. Keep in mind that is not what the ground rod is for nor will it provide enough of a low-impedance path from the frame, to the structure's GES and then back to the generator to trip an onboard OCPD. The manufacturers call for ground rods when the actual generator is being utilized as a separately derived system, meaning the neutral (grounded) conductor is being switched along with the ungrounded conductors as well. Now, It may have been helpful for viewers to also know that an EGC (Equipment Grounding Conductor) would also be installed in either system layout since they are feeders in evolved in the electrical layout.
If you use the 4 conductor 50 Amp NEMA 14-50R plug on a generator that will connect the ground of the generator to the grounding system of the home through the panel? Obviously, you would disconnect the bond inside the generator use the bond in the main panel. The frame of the generator should get a good ground though that. Portable generators are just that portable with a flexible cord plug into an outlet that feeds the panel and an interlock device is used.
Is this to me as nothing stated has anything to do with my reply.
I have a brand new WEN and a new EZ box Switch. The model of the WEN is 2000 W inverter # 56203i . I just want to make sure that removing the three white lines and making the jumper longer is correct for my installation.
Yes. Per the instructions you received in the box and you can watch a video on you tube.
The questions that comes to mind looking at your explanation is. How about if the neutral is not bonded on the main panel as it should and the hot is supplying a feed on the panel with the main breaker off. Does it still posses a risk to utility workers? Since the neutral still goes back to the utility pole.? Or does it present more of a danger when is bonded since it would be like having a main panel and a subpanel bonded on both sides.?
I finally hit open this situation of all my years in mechanic work construction work and just an overall DYI for cash. So I was very confused when I found both my receptacles "hot" Thank you for explaining this Ill sleep easy knowing what I had done and thought was correct and helped me win a few arguments. lol
Outstanding job! This guy explained bonded vs floating neutrals better than most college professors can after 30 minutes!
First great name... Second appreciate you saying that. More questions just ask!
Great example and explanation for this - well done.
Thank you very much!
Excellent video - I am currently shopping for a recreation/backup generator and it looks like no matter which one ( Bonded or floating Neutral) a person has it is important that the generator itself is grounded. The Westinghouse worksite generators all have the Bonded neutral with GFCI outlets and the models that plug directly into an RV have Floating neutral & non-GFCI outlets.
I was worried about using power tools with a Floating neutral generator but it looks like its ok as long as the generator itself is properly grounded.
People are way too wrapped up in bonded or floating. Some of your best generators Honda and Yamaha are floating. If you bond the frame of the generator to a ground rod as per manufactures recommendations everything will be OK!
Ground rods are for lightning strike protection for the equipment. Ground wire is the return to trip circuit protection only if return path is to neutral, bonded in generator or at the house panel you are powering.
Recently there have been discussions about how to power the home using the 240v 30A connection from the bed of a Ford F-150 Lightning. The output from the Ford is a bonded neutral source and people have found that the GFCI in the Ford trips when connected to their transfer switch. I gather this is because of the switch neutral connection to the house panel where the neutral is grounded/bonded. So for a bonded neutral generator/source such as the Ford Lightning, it seems the answer is to not have a neutral connection from the switch to the house panel neutral or ground bar, as your diagram seems to indicate, thereby isolating the generator neutral from the house panel.
All modern house light circuits (you use a light as an example) consist of hot, neutral and ground. Their neutral wire is connected to the neutral or ground bar in the panel as is their ground wire. Your diagram did not show the ground connection from the generator to the house panel trough the transfer switch. However, a 240V generator output connection to the transfer switch is a 4 wire connection, 2 hot, 1 neutral and 1 ground.
Is the ground wire from the generator also disconnected from the panel through the transfer switch, but connected to the light circuit?
Is the house light circuit then adequately grounded via the generator ground?
Does that mean for each house circuit, the transfer switch uses 3 wires, hot neutral and ground and all three are switched?
Or does the transfer switch disconnect the house circuit neutral bar from the house ground bar (unbond) when using the generator but still uses the house neutral and ground circuitry/bars that it has unbonded to power and protect the house circuits?
I have seen advertisements that refer to GFI transfer switches for bonded generator/sources. Is that what you have described?
Just got device. I notice the red "line" wire is attached to generator side of switch and the black is middle and blue coming from inlet is on Normal side of switch. Shouldnt the line (red) be on the normal switch side since its providing power from panel in normal mode? and the blue from inlet to the generator side of switch?
Looking at the back of the switch red is on top, black is in the middle and blue is on the bottom. Please do not change this configuration. It is correct.
@@EZgeneratorswitch thanks for the fast reply! Very nicely made product. Easy to install and great quality.
So if you’re just installing a common 10 circuit transfer switch in your house. Your house panel is bonded you use a floating neutral generator?
But if you have a transfer switch that can isolate your neutral from the main panel, then a bonded neutral generator would work?
I think it finally clicked! Thanks for your video!
pretty much
Thanks for this video. This is great but.... I've been told that we must never have 2 ground either as it may cause a ground loop. So the ground off the generator is carried to the transfer switch, which is also tied to the ground of the main panel. But even if the transfer switch does disconnect the neutral, the neutral could still be connected through the generator via the ground. My new generator is bounded. So I'm not sure what to do now with this ground issue.
At 1:19 you say your switch physically connects the neutral to the existing house neutral, then at 2:12 you say your switch separates the neutral from the house neutral. Which is it?
5 years later could yoy explain how the flow of the neutral goes if bonded as suppose to unbonded in terms of a generator
I have a Honda EU2200i generator with the floating neutral. Will i need to purchase a neutral ground bonding plug to run my gas furnace during a power outage?
What do you do with the ground wire that runs from the generator to the switch? Specifically in the case of a floating neutral generator.
Ground it
I’m having a generator installed you know for the outages we get , my thing is when I’m looking into what I’m going to be paying for bonding the neutral to the fuse box in a power outage with the generator running will that make the line live from the neutral line Back-feeding to the grid ? If my house will be hot I will turn off the main .
Wait... What do you mean "what you are paying for bonding the neutral". What generator are you getting installed? Are they licensed contractors?
You are not paying to bond the neutral... It is bonded by code in you panel. Ru using our switch for a dedicated circuit or something else?
Thank you. Well explained. I have a floating neutral generator and called the manufacturer in regards to proper bonding. The tech guy said to make sure the panel was bonded but to cut off the ground plug going into the generator. Does this make any sense to you? Seems to me like you said if the hot or neutral line in the genny touches the frame and someone grabs it, ouch!
Our switch solves the problem legally thru the code. No need to alter anything.
Excellent video
Great video BUT in my situation, in the electrical panel, the neutral is not grounded and my generator is floating neutral, how do I go with that?
Your Neutral is grounded in your panel. Our switch will handle floating neutral generator with no problem. There are no issues here
Hello:
Thank you very much for replying but this is my situation, which is killing me, I have a Honda gen, floating neutral, if I measure hot to neutral is 120 volts, hot to ground is 60 volts, neutral is 60 volts, I can plug anything and it works fine, plug in tester shows missing ground only, my concern is that if I try to connect to breaker panel I would be sending 60 volts to the neutral, my panel it has a non grounded neutral connection and that is maybe because it is considered a subpanel, main panel (Meter) is outside with only a few breakers for the pool equipment, all the breakers are in a 200 amp panel in the garage with a 200 amp disconnect breaker, any idea would be greatly appreciated, I really want to connect a few breakers in a case of emergency, Thank you very much for your willing to help.
Sub panels are not allowed to ground the neutral and the unbalance of the load is carried back to the main panel where neutral is grounded. Our switch will ground your neutral in the generator and connect it to the neutral in the main panel. You will be fine.
We deal with Honda's everyday...no problem. Our switch will work properly and bring your set up to be code compliant.
@@vidaldm It is actually called an open ground but you mainly need the proper switch type.
Where does the water and gas bond go on a Generator ATS? Or does it??
I know it’s not to code, but what does it hurt if you have neutral bonded to ground at the generator and in the panel?
Hi sir good explanation, can i ask what happen neutral failed. what happen to the alternator or other equipement in the generator ? for example like the winding might get hot or something ?
QUESTION: why would you want TWO grounded points if you use the house grounding? what if you just bonded the generator frame to the neutral on the generator?
Thanks for the explanation. How would this work for a recreational vehicle?
Most likely a floating neutral configuration and equipment
Are your EZ Generator Switches prewired for a Bonded Generator, or for Floating Neutral Generator? OR is the Switch set for both? Thank You !
Ready for bonded... Floating requires quick change.
Sent out for bonded neutrals. Conversion is quick, videos you can watch
Great... a little clearer. I’m in the Philippines and in the process of installing an ATS and Engine controller. The engine controller requires a L and N as feedback... so while trying to determine which wire was L and N I measured to ground each of the wires. To my surprise both had volts. One had 130v, the other 70v. Why would this be? Seems by looking at your video it could be a floating neutral? Interested in your view in this, and what should I do? There is no grounding rod (which also concerns me, but there is a grounding post on the generator. Perhaps I just need to install a grounding rod?
Floating neutral...yes place a ground rod and conductor to rod. Any fault with the generator will go to ground and protect you from receiving a shock.
@@EZgeneratorswitch thank you so much.!
you explained bonded neutral and floating neutral generators very clearly, thank you. can generator be bonded to ground wire in the house or we need to use ground rod specifically for generator?
You can bond your generator frame (there should be a lug provided) to the house ground rod. That is fine.
@@EZgeneratorswitch Doesn't that depend on whether the generator is a bonded- or floating-neutral?? If it's a bonded neutral generator, you wouldn't want to bond your generator frame to the house panel ground would you?
Question: I am trying to wire a BONDED INVERTER that sits on a cart with a 3kWh set of LiFePO4 batteries. There is no grounding of the inverter to a rod since it is mobile. Would you connect the ground (which is bonded to the neutral) of the inverter to the ground cables? This is NOT connected close to a panel, but it is near a HVAC system so the "grounding rod" is some 50 ft away. Thanks.
Bonded inverter? Both legs are normally floating. You can't bond either leg to ground, you will burn up the inverter... Or ... Are you talking about a inverter generator? They are normally floating also.
@@EZgeneratorswitch oops! Yeah, you ground the panels, duh, not the inverter, I should go to bed.
So if I take an ohmmeter and there is zero resistance between the neutral and the frame then I have a floating neutral generator? My generator documentation does not tell me which it has. Thanks!
A good generator has it printed right on the panel.
I have a bonded neutral generator. If I were to use this generator to power my house, would I still need to ground the generator to the ground?
Manufacturers recommendations are ground the frame... I suggest you do that... Pretty simple just don't drive a ground rod into utilities
Goldenboy Productions question: I have 4 wire ( 2 hot, 1 N, 1Ground) #6 copper conductor flexible cable connected to the bonded generator. If I unwire my subpanel breaker inside the main panel and splice the two hot wires can I then connect N on my gen wire to the neutral bar and ground on my gen wire to the ground bar inside the main panel?
@@adamhamilton3757 going thru all that is just wrong. If you want to energize your entire sub panels either get a transfer switch or a lock system. In addition can your gen set handle the entire load? Get the total amps and add 25%
EZ Generator Switch I have one now. After breaking L1 and L2 through the transfer switch Can I connect my bonded generator to house neutral and house ground?
@@adamhamilton3757 just curious what size transfer switch did you buy to switch L1 and L2... What size is the panel
I have a portable generator with bonded neutral and GFCI outlets. I have connected it to my main panel via 50 amp inlet and breaker (yes, I installed an interlock). The neutral and ground from the inlet are connected to the neutral and ground bus in the main panel, respectively. My questions are, do I need to ground my generator? If so, can I just attach it to the main ground rod? Do I need to convert my generator to floating neutral, so it is not bonded in two places? If it's not easily converted (ie jumper) what are my options? Please advise.
Yes, yes, hire and electrician, they need to alter how it is wired inside the socket. You are really better off just buying the right kind rather then altering it. Champion has videos about how to change their. Most manufacturer's do not even tell you what to do.
I have a neutrally bonded inverter that I want to connect to one side of a square d 100 amp panel for a garden shed for solar . Can I connect the neutral from the inverter to the neutral in the panel and the hot to the hot without creating a ground loop? Do I need to connect the case of the inverter to the ground/neutral inside the panel? Thanks
You have several things going on here. First it's a violation to connect to one phase of a panel. You need a different type of transfer switch and the switch would need to be rated at 100 amps or what ever the main is rated for.
Your issue isn't a ground loop. Your inverter should be grounded to a ground connection not the neutral. If you want to send me a diagram we can try and help . But you definitely need a transfer switch to it isolate the inverter from normal power.
You run a ground from the inverter of the solar equipment NOT through and house circuitry. You are probably violating a slew of codes.
What if I am not hooking it up to ANY panel? Which do I use then? I assume bonded??
250.34 Portable and Vehicle-Mounted Generators. (A) Portable Generators. The frame of a portable generator shall not be required to be connected to a grounding electrode as defined in 250.52 for a system supplied by the generator under the following conditions:
(1) The generator supplies only equipment mounted on the generator, cord-and-plug-connected equipment through receptacles mounted on the generator, or both, and
(2) The normally non-current-carrying metal parts of equipment and the equipment grounding conductor terminals of the receptacles are connected to the generator frame.
My generator has "neutral bonded to frame" on the generator panel. I can directly run a 6/3 cable to the sub panel inside my home that's being fed from a main panel outside my home. The outside main panel is neutral - ground bonded. But here's the thing, that neutral ground bond is no longer valid inside my sub panel once I use the Interlock switch that disconnects the sub panel from the outside main panel when I run my generator so I can't back feed generator power to the grid. So how should my generator be set? Should I leave it alone or should I disconnect the neutral wire from the generator's frame?
So you understand your interlock on the main panel is probably a 30 or 40 so your generator size needs to be a 8 or 10 kw. Neutral bonded is fine...however Interlocks don't switch the neutral so you have no choice, just one reason we don't care for them. Your generator needs to meet your load and Interlocks give people the idea you can run your whole house....you can only run the kw output of your gen set. They give you more versatility to choose circuits nothing more. Way too much room for error to burn your gen set life in half. Your sub panel alone having a 60 amp feed would require a 14 kw gen set. Hope you understand but if you have more questions just ask!
Ozzie, what size generator are you using.. Don't alter the gen set.
Is the generator ground rod really necessary if neutral is already tied to ground in the breaker panel? I suppose you could get a few volts drop along the neutral wire between the generator and the breaker panel, but is this enough to cause a serious electrical shock on a bonded neutral generator? If the neutral is floating, a few volts on the neutral at the generator won't show up on the generator's frame, because it is isolated.
I would think connecting neutral and ground on both ends (breaker panel and at the generator) would be a bad idea, because you would have neutral (return) currents flowing on the ground wire, and be connected to the frame of the generator. Is that why you need a ground rod for the bonded neutral generator?
Ground rod is for one reason only...Fault current. Any generator that has a fault to the frame has no where to go because most generators are mounted on rubber feet.... Until you touch it!
Ground rods are good, doesn't have to be a 8' rod... Something to dissipate the potential.
@@EZgeneratorswitch,
From NFPA 110:
6.2.15* Isolation of Neutral Conductors. Provisions shall be
included for ensuring continuity, transfer, and isolation of the
primary and the EPS neutral conductors wherever they are
separately grounded to achieve ground-fault sensing.
EPS stands for "Emergency Power System"
Translation: If you connect the neutrals (home and generator) and ground them at both ends, you'll cause GFI's to trip. The return currents on the ground system are also a potential (pun not intended) safety hazard. The fix is to make sure the neutral is only grounded at the generator, or at the load, not both.
Here is a website you should probably read.
www.ecmweb.com/content/article/20885413/solid-grounding-for-your-generator
I'm an electrical engineer BTW.
@@EZgeneratorswitch I know they like them to be over 6 feet but how much is really needed for safety, I will be drawing less then 100 watts if that makes any difference, so 1A. Doe the wire need a minimal gauge??
Whenever i turn on my portable generator and i used tester to identify phase and neutral my tester glows on both terminals . Why is this so
I was searching for whether or not it was important to disconnect the neutral from my generator when using the power grid as well as disconnecting the grid's neutral when using my generator. From my power meter, I feed a three wire system and my neutral and grounding rod are connected. My generator is 21KW, located about 10' from my meter pole and powers my system through a DIY interlock blocking energizing of the main breaker from the meter when the 100A generator breaker is energized closed and visa versa (couldn't find an 87.5A breaker). (Question 1.) Is it safe/okay to leave the generator's neutral/ground connected to the box with the grid powering my box? (Question 2.) Is is safe/okay to leave the grid's neutral/ground connected to the box with the generator powering my box? (Also.) Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated.
I think I found my answers in another of your videos, "Why Approved Transfer Switches ...". Any suggestions like how to "right size" the breaker feeding my panel for a 21kw generator are still appreciated.
If a bonded neutral generator is not grounded to earth. Is it able to be wired as a floating neutral?
No, grounding the frame in any generator is not related to the neutral (per say). It simply means the neutral is bonded (connected) to the frame. So therfore a floating neutral is not connected to the frame. In either case the connecting the frame to ground is in case of a fault. If the hot leg shorts to the case the frame would not be "hot".... Just waiting for you to touch it. Regarding neutrals - - - this is all about the neutral in any system is connected to ground at the source only. Never to be grounded anywhere else. What is trying to be achieved is the balance or return path of current to be dissapated at the source only not in multiple locations.
Great video! In the bonded scenario; where would you connect the ground wire within the panel? In the neutral bar or the ground bar?
If there is a separate ground bar place it there. However in many main service panels you will find the grounds and neutral mounted to the same bar. Sub panels require insulated neutrals and separate ground bar termination.
Great video but I have one question. This is assuming you have a ground rod at the generator. According to NEC you don't need one if certain rules are met and also my manufacturer (Westinghouse) does not say they require it. So, if I keep neutral and ground bonded at the generator (just the frame) and do not use a rod at generator, is this acceptable? The plan I have, which is hard to find grounding info on, is to connect 50A inlet direct to main house panel via 50A feeder with interlock to the main so I can utilize my main panel's ground. I have read so many people go back and forth on what is correct I am tired of reading it on the internet. Some say neutral to have one ground and meet codes, others say you are fine by using panel's ground. The others say if you keep it bonded it could put current on your gen frame. Right now, my best guess is remove the jumper and use a ground rod. But my brother who is an electrician says keep bonding jumper at gen and no rod required. What do you think?
So you have a bonded neutral generator. Your neutral is bonded so you should not bond it again (NEC). So our switch is the Only switch that separates the house neutral from the generator neutral. Meeting the code. Let's address the ground rod... Your house neutral is bonded at the panel and connected to a ground rod. Code...
So it's the same as connecting a ground rod at your generator..
Not connecting to a ground rod is foolish no matter what style generator you own. If it's bonded it now acts like your house. If it's floating it's assuring you if there is a fault to the case it will dissipate to ground not shock you.
Next your 50 amp inlet... It will require you use a generator to match the load...50amps...
Nolarentals, sorry I don't think I answered this. You are correct if certain rules are met. However my b opinion is as follows. I always want a ground rod, I want the safety of the generator frame connected to ground. Either a bonded or floating neutral it's nice to know if something shorts to the frame I have no issues.
Hi,
Can you get a shock from an appliance that develops a fault and let's say it's at a 220V potential if the whole system is floating and it's not grounded? I'm asking this question thinking why would the current want to travel to earth if the inverter/generator is not earthed so there is no ground loop for current to flow through. So would the current still want to go to earth. Or still shock you and why
I've been trying to get a question for this on the internet with no hope.
So in summary
Can a faulty appliance case at high voltage electrocute you if the whole system is floating?
I'm thinking this for setting up a floating solar PV system with a 220V inverter
You are confusing a floating neutral with an equipment ground. The green, green with yellow or bare wire is your equipment grounding conductor. When your appliance faults and a phase leg touches the casing that fault travels on the green wire to earth at the same time your breaker would trip because it sees that fault.
Hello, I already have one of your switches. I was wondering if you make a 20amp version?
The switch is rated at 20amps. The 15 protection is from the gen set
Great explanation, I have one of these 12V inverter generating a Pure sine wave single phase AC. I tested for continuity and neutral seems to be floating. Can I plug it on a single pole switch or I need two poles switch ?
Double pole double throw with center position off (code requirements)
Can you use a ohm meter to check if your neutral is bonded to the frame?
Bonded,one leg hot. Floating, both legs hot.
for a floating Neutral Generator, by code, do you need to add Another Ground rod, Or can you tap off the ground rods of the panel?
Darrell it has nothing to do with floating or bonded neutral generator. The manufacturer recommendations are bond the frame of the gen set in all cases. I see no problem with bonding to an existing ground rod with an independent grounding conductor. Not using the panels grounding conductor.
@@EZgeneratorswitch if the generator is hooked up to a receptacle that leads back to a transfer switch which leads back to the panel, does the generator still need to be grounded? I don't get why it would this way, because the transfer switch and panel is grounded
@@jonburrows2684 because the generator needs a equipment ground.
@@EZgeneratorswitch ok, thank you for the fast response.
I have a question, it is my understanding that if the added power supply is a inverter, that the inverter can not handle a neutral to earth ground bond because that (for some reason, I do not know why) will destroy the inverter, I am not sure if this is also true of a inverter generator. I thought that was why inverter generators did not have a bonded neutral, the only way I was able to resolve this problem in my house was to add an isolation transformer between the inverter and the transfer switch. Do you have any thoughts on this you can share ???
Ray, Berger just saw this on the thread so I apologize for not getting back 2u. So simply put the inverter has no connection with either leg to ground as the NEC rules requires. Either leg can be the hot or the neutral. So if you ground either leg you will cook the inverter. Our switch will allow you to switch both legs and Thereby allowing the inverter to do its job. You added a isolation transformer and are using power in doing so. Even if there is no load, the transformer is a load itself.
Ray, this is different from a inverter generator. They do not have this issue
@@EZgeneratorswitch I think you ground the case with DC tom AC inverters but they also need to be wired to deliver that to any plugs. Correct??
So do I need to unbond my generator when power my house
Hello, does the bonded neutral generator need a second ground rod at the generator? Confused.
All generators need the frame grounded to (1) ground rod. Doesn't matter whether you have a bonded neutral generator or floating neutral generator.
@@EZgeneratorswitch So, if my generator is bonded neutral, and I'm using it to power my house with a chord from the 240volt receptacle, wherein the 2 hots go into a bi-pole breaker at the panel, and the neutral and ground wires go directly into the respective busses at the panel, is the generator safely grounded?? Is there still a risk of electrocution by touching the generator frame? With this set-up, should I disconnect the neutral to ground bond of the generator to avoid this possibility?
@@toddlaroche5831 this is precisely my setup...did you ever get an expert answer?
@@spectreskeptic3493 Yes I did. There should only be one neutral to ground bond in the system, so it is preferable to have a floating neutral at the generator, whereby the ground circuit coming out of the generator is routed to the main panel grounding stakes (through the ground bus). This assumes that the generator is only being used for electrical backup to a house. The generator should be configured as a bonded neutral if it is being used in the field. Using an additional grounding rod at the generator, when it is used as a house back-up is not really going to help; in fact, if the generator grounding rod is close to the grounding rod(s) of the house main panel, it could case an unwanted ground loop. Wiring a ground rod to generator being used @in the field” is a good idea however, and is actually mandated.
I have a floating neutral generator. How do I know if the emergency panel in the house is wired to provide a link to the house neutral, thus grounding the generator?
Peter Teitelbaum... Not sure I understand why you have a emergency panel in a house? But either way that neutral is insulated and the return path is back to the main panel connected to the neutral bus which is connected (grounded) to the ground bus and connected to 2 approved ground sources.
@@EZgeneratorswitch Thanks for the quick reply. There is an emergency panel beside the main breaker panel in the house. In the event of a power outage, I would turn all the breakers of the main panel to OFF except those items I want power to flow to from the generator. I then flip a switch in the emergency panel which disconnects the usual electrical supply and instead connects the main panel to the generator supply. At least that's how I understand it.
@@peterteitelbaum2858 OK... The emergency panel has everyday circuits in it. There is probably a lockout on that panel that allows the generator to feed the panel but not backfeed into the regular panel. Our switch will work in any of those panels as a backup for heat. The neutrals are insulated and carry back to the regular panel neutral.
@@EZgeneratorswitch Thanks for your patience and not sure if you can answer this: The set-up I described was done years before I bought the cottage. Is it possible that it was set up for a bonded-neutral generator only or can I be confident that it is safe to use my floating-neutral generator without grounding it?
@@peterteitelbaum2858 it will be safe, no worries.
Why am I getting current through the neutral side of my generator output this is a Coleman 7000 W continuous generator
Good video !!!
How do you know what kind of generator you have with respect to this?
Gene... If it's a newer gen set.. right where you plug in it says floating or bonded neutral. Older units need to be tested. Gen set off and with a continuity tester, plug one probe into the standard outlet at 9 o'clock position, the other touch a clean spot such as a bolt on the frame. Continuity = bonded / no continuity = floating
1:08 You would not get a shock in this instance because there is no potential between the energized case and the ground (or anything else except the neutral conductor on the genset)
If you are talking about grounds. Every gen set should be grounded per manufactures recommendation. Why???? Because if there is a fault inside the gen set that fault uses the ground to disapate the potential not using an individual as a path. We never know when there could be a fault... Ground the gen set.
@@EZgeneratorswitch There is no potential between the ground and the gen. If there is a fault inside the gen that causes the case to become energized, and you then touched that energized case while also touching a ground rod, nothing will happen, because there is no potential between the ground and the gen. There is no complete circuit in this case, therefor no current flow, and no shock hazard.
What about a solar generator are they safe to use ,?
YES
I'm confused as to why any generator has a bonded neutral, unless there was a switch on the genny to make it a floating neutral.
Based on your explanation, if a generator is connected to a house, say with an interlock (legal) or through a dryer outlet with a suicide cord (illegal), the generator should have a floating neutral. And its because the bonding is done in the service panel.
My issue is that it seems most large generators come with a bonded neutral. If that's the cause, what problems can it cause having a bond at the genny and in the home?
You want your neutral to be bonded at one location. What you don't want is multiple paths for current flow. Your house has a bonded neutral...so a bonded neutral generator would be providing that scenario. But, On the other hand most inverters all need to have both legs floating so working with a generator it would need to be floating otherwise you cook the inverter. Also using a gfci outlet from a generator the switch must switch both legs or the gfci see's the additional bond of the neutral in your panel and trips.
@@EZgeneratorswitch "On the other hand most inverters all need to have both legs floating so working with a generator it would need to be floating otherwise you cook the inverter." Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it reads to me that inverter generators need to have a floating neutral. This is whether it's connected to a house or not. Outside of OSHA requirements to have a bonded neutral at a job site where the generator is standalone, it seems to make no sense to bond the neutral on any generator.
@@crabjoe I was speaking about an inverter ...not a inverter generator. That's what I meant about having both legs floating. Sorry should have been clearer. Yes inverter generators are floating (don't think I have found one that is not). Bonded neutral generators are a must for a GFCI. so this is what we see at job sites (mostly) The GFCI needs to see hot to ground, hot to neutral and neutral to ground to work efficiently. This is a difficult topic and probably the most discussed in the industry.
@@ezgeneratorswitch4u Can you tell me how a generator like the B&S Q6500 works? It's an inverter generator with GFCI. I have a feeling that if it were to be connected to a home that didn't have a GFI transfer switch it's going to trip the GFCI breaker on the generator or maybe even the house?
On such a generator, if one were to remove the neutral bond, would it cause any problems?
BTW, GFCI brings up another thing.. Is is the bonded neutral needed? I'm asking because you can have GFCI without a ground and from my understanding, it's allowed as long as it's marked to that effect.
@@EZgeneratorswitch This is the answer I have been looking for, I installed a Reliance transfer switch on my sisters furnace, but it only switches the line, and when she plugs in her Generac 7500GP it trips the built in GFI. So I guess I need to switch both the Line and the Neutral in the transfer box/ Thank you.
Nice
My modern furnace will not ignite and run using floating neutral
The switch takes care of that problem. By code the switch grounds the neutral to your panel neutral...done!
Hello,
I’m using my DuroMax12000EH Generator as a power back-up to my house for when the grid goes down. I’m feeding power from the generator directly into my house breaker panel (with an approved interlock device) from the generator’s 50amp 240volt receptacle. The two hot leads go directly into a bipole 50amp breaker on the panel, and the neutral and ground wires go (unswitched) directly into the respective neutral and ground busses in the panel. Because it is my house’s primary panel, the neutral and ground busses are connected together.
Because there is a ground circuit established with the generator using this particular set-up, it is redundant, and I believe problematic, to ground the generator frame to a grounding rod as well. Further, it would be prudent to eliminate the possibility of grounding the generator through the frame via a circuit made by a human body!
Based on a review of my generator, the neutral and ground are bonded to the generator frame. Therefore, I believe it would be prudent to eliminate the grounding bond to the generator frame and let the ground at the house panel serve as the grounding circuit.
Are you familiar with this overall grounding question/issue and with this approach to remediating the issue?
I’m trying to be as safe/careful as possible!
Thanks for your guidance.
Just adding to the above: You say that with a bonded-neutral generator "the neutral is already bonded so we can't bond it again." Not sure why not?? But you're suggesting that if I connect my generator to my house panel as described above, I would ostensibly need to make it a floating neutral generator by removing the bond at the generator. Yes?
@@toddlaroche5831 Todd i have the same question... I hooked up my DuroMax 10000EH to my main panel with an approved interlock and 4 wire receptacle only to find that it started smoking on the ground contact despite everything working in the house. The receptacle receiving power from the generator and feeding the house allows both neutral and ground connections that are both connected to the neutral bus bar in the main panel. i double and triple checked everything. Waiting on monday to call duromax before i run it again to ask why the ground contact got too hot, meaning should the ground returning from the generator NOT be connected to the main panel but instead be connected to an 8' ground rod from the chassis? My understanding is that these duromax generators have floating neutrals which don't require a ground rod and it's acceptable to ground it at the main panel on the neutral bus bar where the ground and neutral are combined.
Jason Thompson Here’s what ive found out: DuroMax calls my generator (and I’m betting yours) a floating neutral. This is misleading because there IS a jumper between the neutral and ground in the generator. Take off the generator cover and I bet you’ll see it. You can also confirm that the neutral and the ground are bonded with a simple continuity check - test for continuity at any of the generator receptacles between the neutral and ground pins (neutral pin is on the left side of the receptacle). If you get a closed circuit you’ve got a bonded neutral. DuroMax calls the generator a “floating neutral” because it’s bonded at the generator casing, not the frame. But if you’re using their generator to power your house, it’s important to understand the difference here. So, if your generator is a bonded neutral, and you’ve got a ground wire in the cord that goes from the generator to the main panel (where, by code, the neutral and ground are bonded), you’ve got your neutral circuit energized because it’s bonded to neutral in 2 places... it’s serving as a “parallel neutral.” That’s why you should remove the jumper in the generator with your set-up. DuroMax will tell you that the way to properly ground the generator is to use a grounding pole to the generator grounding nut and to remove the ground circuit going from the generator to the panel. I spoke to Rob at DuroMax about all of this... ask to speak with him if you can! Honestly, I’m not sure I’ll follow their suggestion. I don’t want to be driving in an 8’ ground rod near my generator and hooking it up to a ground pole there whenever I use the generator, when I know I can ground it with the existing, already approved, grounding circuit at my main panel. Again, just have to make sure the generator is a real floating neutral to do it that way. Good luck with it; let me know where you land!
@@4toddlaroche will do calling them today.
Spoke to Rob, and because the the ground and neutral are indeed bonded at the generator making it a "floating neutral" you eliminate the ground at the twist lock receptacle that goes back to the main sub panel. Having the ground connected at the receptacle as well as a neutral conductor creates a "power loop" thus allowing a stray current to flow on an alternate circular path and this is what smoked my plug on the ground contact. Essentially, the two line leads 240/120V support power, the neutral and ground bonded to return the unbalanced load on any 120V circuits and a bonded ground to an earth path to a rod in the ground connected to the chassis bond lug is what needs to be wired for proper and safe operation. Thanks for your assistance Todd and Rob!
The proper term is "Isolated Neutral" . Of course that is merely one component of a "floating power source". Many equipment will use a double poll switch to completely isolate the power source(except for ground). "Floating Neutral' is more commonly used to denote a 120 volt or balanced 240 volt circuit where the neutral line has become disconnected while hot lines are energized and that can be a dangerous situation. Normally neutral bonds to ground at one point in the system except in special cases determined by the power company : Sometimes redundant earth grounds are used if a possibility of one ground breaking exists. Panels and boxes are always earth grounded in some way, unless they are plastic.
No, Not isolated neutral, its floating neutral it is "not connected to ground". On your generator receptacle there is no continuity between 9 o'clock and the frame of the generator on a floating neutral generator. Isolated neutral is one that is separated from other neutrals like in emergency systems for hospitals. NEC 2017 NFPA have removed the term isolated neutral from the definitions and index locations. We manufacture and are the only company who offers a switch with double pole double throw center position off to accommodate existing "Bonded neutral" generators and instances where GFCI and Arc faults are incorporated into a circuit. Solar systems and inverters also require neutral switching to avoid destroying the supply. Regarding power company requirements, All neutrals in residential and commercial services are connected to ground at the first point means of disconnect (main service panel not sub panels). In addition the requirement is redundant grounds, meaning at least two means of bonding the neutral to ground via two ground rods, water service, steel plate, etc NEC 250-52 . Plastic boxes are required to contain a separate ground such as you find in romex. The ground must be continuous between each box and terminations must be made with approved means. Lastly, a neutral is never a ground until they bond at the main panel for the two primary reasons, A ground is only there for fault current and should never have any current on it. Unlike the neutral which carries the unbalance load back to the panel and carries potential to complete a circuit.
@@ezgeneratorswitch4u So your generator is like an isolation transformer. But I stand updated on the "terms". You isolate the ground and float the winding. Or you can ground the case and ground is still isolated from the floating winding. Sure, floating neutral generators are used for systems which already have a grounded neutral. And of course it is a balanced floating winding with neutral as the center-tap, if that is for 240 volt split-phase service. It is a floating potential that is grounded by your system's own ground. I still do not like the term floating neutral -- cause that can refer to an open circuit fault in the neutral path. Maybe an "isolated ground generator" would sound confusing though it would mean the same thing as floating winding in whole.
Do not use a ground rod at the generator
100% of portable generators will have the ground and neutral bonded sold today. They all come with GFCI receptacles which require it. Lot of them have instructions how to un-bond it. The problem is people a portable generator to run tools lot of times those extension cords are not in good shape. People let the cord fall in a pool, or water puddles. Manufacturers have to include GFCI likely required by law.
This generator has floating neutral, but I want to change it to bonded when using the two 120v receptacles in stand-alone mode. Where should I make a connection, along with using a toggle switch, to temporary bond the neutral?
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