Interesting. In most modern industries that manage risk (aerospace, aiutomotive and the like) we have seen that automation is safer than purely human action, because we as humans are very faliblem, and most falible when under pressure (stressful situation, when tired etc) I'd be amazed if somehow scuba diving was any different, ie yes, using a computer incorrectly has causes accidents, but not as many as were prevented by using that computer in the first place, ie an overall mitigation/reduction of the risk?
The vast majority of dive computers in the market are designed and intended for use within recreational limits, which are by definition no decompression dives. They do have the ability to produce an emergency decompression stop in case you the no decompression limit is exceeded but as the name suggests, operating beyond the NDL is not what the computer has been designed for. That said, there are a few dive computer that are designed to operate beyond NDL, but they are more expensive and more complex to operate, decompression dives usually involve different Gaz for different stages of the dive so the computer needs to be programmed with the parameters of those gazes and the operator needs to make sure to let the computer know they switched Gaz and to which Gaz. My understanding is that GUE does some very technical dives in some complex environment like caves and wercks and very low depth therefore they need a great flexibility in planning to allow for the dive's special requirements, for example des the site allow for a safe stop at a given depth for a given time? Will they have enough gaz to execute the stop? .... If something unexpected happens, can the computer adapt its dive plan? Can it be reprogrammed underwater? They mus have probably came up to the conclusion that there is no current computer in the market that satisfy their very particular needs and therefore they rely on preplanning multiple scenarios at the surface and have the knowledge and skills to safely adapt the plan to the dive condition.
@@BouJebba wtf are you talking about?!? Do you even tech dive?? There are many brands which can plan a decompression dive. Divesfoft and Sherewater to name a few. A computer can do much more complex calculations on the fly than any human can underwater and potentially under stress.. This whole argument put forth by GUE is laughable and borderline bullshit. Seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel to justify their school of thought with this video..
@@userb3nje909 ok, I'm calling Shearwater and asking them to remove the below from their user manual based on your recommendation s "DANGER This computer is capable of calculating deco stop requirements . These calculations are at best a guess of the real physiological decompression requirements . Dives requiring staged decompression are substantially more risky than dives that stay well within no-stop limits . Diving with rebreathers and/or diving mixed gases and/or performing staged decompression dives and/or diving in overhead environments greatly increases the risk of scuba diving . YOU REALLY ARE RISKING YOUR LIFE WITH THIS ACTIVITY . WARNING This computer has bugs . Although we haven’t found them all yet, they are there . It is certain that there are things that this computer does that either we didn’t think about, or planned for it to do something different . Never risk your life on only one source of information . Use a second computer or tables . If you choose to make riskier dives, obtain the proper training and work up to them slowly to gain experience . This computer will fail . It is not whether it will fail but when it will fail . Do not depend on it . Always have a plan on how to handle failures . Automatic systems are no substitute for knowledge and training . No technology will keep you alive . Knowledge, skill, and practiced procedures are your best defense (Except for not doing the dive, of course)"
@@BouJebba Shearwater is simpler to operate then some cheaper NDL computers. Yes, the Shearwater manual warns of everything you mentioned. The Solution: carry wetnotes, slate, backup timer, generate software plan, and last, confirm with your buddy's computer, dive is going to plan. Shearwater are covering liabilty. Their gradient factors are conservative. I agree with your nemesis, GUE is what PADI is for recreational divers.
In nowadays not to use a dive computer is what I call a bad habit.... Of course you have to plan your dive and give to the computer the right settings and of course you can plan your dive indipentant of your dive computer but it has to be there with you if you need it and I always recommend to have not only one but two dive computers. The opinion that our mind is the computer and is always there can't be more real but dangerous at the same time... Sometimes you will come out of your planning and then your computer will be there to save the day... For example: you have N2 narcosis and you can't calculate well enough because in such situation an easy task proves to be very difficult So, always have a dive computer fir backup to your plan and always have another dive computer for backup to the first and to verify if its working properly! Technology is there for us to use it well!!!
Forgot to mention, save your batteries on your dive computer by not using it for shore dives that adhere to NDL. Just use a simple depth gauge and monitor gas consumption..
GUE dive planner is now obsolete and can no longer be used on a modern computer. Is there a plan to have it upgraded, or are you recommending a different software? I'm definitely on the side of planning my dives ;)
Hey there, GUE is working on a new version of the software and it will be much, much nicer - it took a while, but we are now at beta testing and hope to release it soon for both Mac and PC. As for other software I was using Baltic Deco Planner, but there are indeed many other apps out there.
So divers that use dive computers don't plan their dives...?!!! They don't know what is going on "inside" the computer?!! (the computer using the same algorithms for planning that are used in "manual" planning!) Quite an assumption..., or rather presumption on behalf of a lot of divers...! And divers doing more technical diving will bring back-up... As will divers using gauges..., Yeah, gauges can fail too. Oops, sorry, I forgot, the diver using gauges and analog plans can fail too...!!! With the technological level we are at nowadays, there are more failure points in a human being (diver) than in a modern up-to-date dive computer! Read comment below: @Max Torque
The problem with dive computers is that people can get lazy. It is dangerous not to understand and not plan a dive in advance. I see the dive computer as a backup that should in no way replace planning. That said, I will never go diving without a dive watch.
Obsolete excuses not applicable to modern day computers. All the planning is part of any tech class, including tables, deco algorithms, dive computers and deco software usage. I am surprised that the GUE divers do not ride horses to the dive site instead of cars or God forbid... electric cars.
Is using a computer for CCR divers frowned upon as well? Don't dive if you feel sick. Why confuse divers? Tell the diver to confirm with their buddies or check runtimes on a slate. I would like to sign up for a GUE course for free.
Plan your dive, dive your dive, is the same thing. You never mentioned off and on-gassing at depth. Your explanation of having the dive computer on the right isn't satisfactory. I use two computers one on each arm. One with built in compass on right. If I'm not wearing it I keep my compass on the right and computer (without built in compass) on the left. Reason: cave light is on the left hand, makes it easy to shine on compass. Dump valves on jackets are on right and left. Good sidemount harnesses have dump valves in the middle and on the right side. Lights are bright on a modern compass, so either hand is ok.
@@scubaclient355 It is not just GUE. If you have a look through back plate and wing set ups you will find the majority to have a dump valve and inflator on the left hand side. Less failure points. As the majority of the back plate and wing (non recreational) set ups are used by these types of divers keeping the computer on the right hand side is quite satisfactory.
@@stephenfrawley5594 Tell me why you need to place the computer on the right arm? Most wing brands are made in the same factory, hence there DIR principles are contradictory. Let me know about the fail points of having it on the right where your free hand (one without the light) can dump air?
@@scubaclient355 You don't need to. It's your choice what equipment you use. To take three examples of brands: Apeks, XDeep and Halcyon all three have their range of backmount wings with a dump valve on the left and typically the inflator hose positioned on the left too so this can all be done with the left hand. If I'd my computer on my left hand it'd be out of sight while adjusting these. Usually if there are more dump valves it is additional to these ones and something else that can fail. Hence extra failure points. You'd need to specifically order a custom wing if you wanted a dump valve on the right. There are plenty of bcds that have more dump valves and the inflator often can be moved side. It's perfectly fine to use what ever set up you want and like that works for you, that's your preference. The advice still stands for the majority of equipment for the majority of divers, particularly in their target audience (though not only) so it is good advice.
Interesting. In most modern industries that manage risk (aerospace, aiutomotive and the like) we have seen that automation is safer than purely human action, because we as humans are very faliblem, and most falible when under pressure (stressful situation, when tired etc) I'd be amazed if somehow scuba diving was any different, ie yes, using a computer incorrectly has causes accidents, but not as many as were prevented by using that computer in the first place, ie an overall mitigation/reduction of the risk?
The vast majority of dive computers in the market are designed and intended for use within recreational limits, which are by definition no decompression dives. They do have the ability to produce an emergency decompression stop in case you the no decompression limit is exceeded but as the name suggests, operating beyond the NDL is not what the computer has been designed for. That said, there are a few dive computer that are designed to operate beyond NDL, but they are more expensive and more complex to operate, decompression dives usually involve different Gaz for different stages of the dive so the computer needs to be programmed with the parameters of those gazes and the operator needs to make sure to let the computer know they switched Gaz and to which Gaz.
My understanding is that GUE does some very technical dives in some complex environment like caves and wercks and very low depth therefore they need a great flexibility in planning to allow for the dive's special requirements, for example des the site allow for a safe stop at a given depth for a given time? Will they have enough gaz to execute the stop? .... If something unexpected happens, can the computer adapt its dive plan? Can it be reprogrammed underwater? They mus have probably came up to the conclusion that there is no current computer in the market that satisfy their very particular needs and therefore they rely on preplanning multiple scenarios at the surface and have the knowledge and skills to safely adapt the plan to the dive condition.
@@BouJebba wtf are you talking about?!?
Do you even tech dive?? There are many brands which can plan a decompression dive. Divesfoft and Sherewater to name a few. A computer can do much more complex calculations on the fly than any human can underwater and potentially under stress..
This whole argument put forth by GUE is laughable and borderline bullshit. Seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel to justify their school of thought with this video..
@@userb3nje909 ok, I'm calling Shearwater and asking them to remove the below from their user manual based on your recommendation s
"DANGER This computer is capable of calculating deco stop requirements . These calculations are at best a guess of the real physiological decompression requirements . Dives requiring staged decompression are substantially more risky than dives that stay well within no-stop limits . Diving with rebreathers and/or diving mixed gases and/or performing staged decompression dives and/or diving in overhead environments greatly increases the risk of scuba diving . YOU REALLY ARE RISKING YOUR LIFE WITH THIS ACTIVITY . WARNING This computer has bugs . Although we haven’t found them all yet, they are there . It is certain that there are things that this computer does that either we didn’t think about, or planned for it to do something different . Never risk your life on only one source of information . Use a second computer or tables . If you choose to make riskier dives, obtain the proper training and work up to them slowly to gain experience . This computer will fail . It is not whether it will fail but when it will fail . Do not depend on it . Always have a plan on how to handle failures . Automatic systems are no substitute for knowledge and training . No technology will keep you alive . Knowledge, skill, and practiced procedures are your best defense (Except for not doing the dive, of course)"
@@BouJebba Shearwater is simpler to operate then some cheaper NDL computers. Yes, the Shearwater manual warns of everything you mentioned. The Solution: carry wetnotes, slate, backup timer, generate software plan, and last, confirm with your buddy's computer, dive is going to plan. Shearwater are covering liabilty. Their gradient factors are conservative. I agree with your nemesis, GUE is what PADI is for recreational divers.
@@BouJebba IANTD have custom tables. Why don't you study them?
I can’t believe this video is only two years old. These arguments are so antiquated.
Good video. I do agree that divers can become complacent and not really understand what is happening
Good to see you back on air
Great presentation. thank you for sharing.
May I ask where we can get a copy of the brochure you mentioned "Assisted, Not Guided"?
Thanks
Good video. Thank you Dorota!
Some timelines on the development of dive computer until they were were considered ‘modern’ would be useful
👍👍👍
In nowadays not to use a dive computer is what I call a bad habit.... Of course you have to plan your dive and give to the computer the right settings and of course you can plan your dive indipentant of your dive computer but it has to be there with you if you need it and I always recommend to have not only one but two dive computers.
The opinion that our mind is the computer and is always there can't be more real but dangerous at the same time... Sometimes you will come out of your planning and then your computer will be there to save the day... For example: you have N2 narcosis and you can't calculate well enough because in such situation an easy task proves to be very difficult
So, always have a dive computer fir backup to your plan and always have another dive computer for backup to the first and to verify if its working properly!
Technology is there for us to use it well!!!
Forgot to mention, save your batteries on your dive computer by not using it for shore dives that adhere to NDL. Just use a simple depth gauge and monitor gas consumption..
GUE dive planner is now obsolete and can no longer be used on a modern computer. Is there a plan to have it upgraded, or are you recommending a different software? I'm definitely on the side of planning my dives ;)
Hey there, GUE is working on a new version of the software and it will be much, much nicer - it took a while, but we are now at beta testing and hope to release it soon for both Mac and PC. As for other software I was using Baltic Deco Planner, but there are indeed many other apps out there.
Run it at emulator :-)
Thank you. Dive Safe 🇺🇲👌🏼
The fly!! haha:)
yeah... could not convince it to f...fly off :P
So divers that use dive computers don't plan their dives...?!!!
They don't know what is going on "inside" the computer?!! (the computer using the same algorithms for planning that are used in "manual" planning!)
Quite an assumption..., or rather presumption on behalf of a lot of divers...!
And divers doing more technical diving will bring back-up... As will divers using gauges..., Yeah, gauges can fail too.
Oops, sorry, I forgot, the diver using gauges and analog plans can fail too...!!!
With the technological level we are at nowadays, there are more failure points in a human being (diver) than in a modern up-to-date dive computer!
Read comment below: @Max Torque
The problem with dive computers is that people can get lazy. It is dangerous not to understand and not plan a dive in advance. I see the dive computer as a backup that should in no way replace planning. That said, I will never go diving without a dive watch.
Are GUE divers using gas density tables?
Obsolete excuses not applicable to modern day computers. All the planning is part of any tech class, including tables, deco algorithms, dive computers and deco software usage. I am surprised that the GUE divers do not ride horses to the dive site instead of cars or God forbid... electric cars.
Is using a computer for CCR divers frowned upon as well? Don't dive if you feel sick. Why confuse divers? Tell the diver to confirm with their buddies or check runtimes on a slate. I would like to sign up for a GUE course for free.
These GUE videos are being Beta tested by the comments section.
Plan your dive, dive your dive, is the same thing. You never mentioned off and on-gassing at depth. Your explanation of having the dive computer on the right isn't satisfactory. I use two computers one on each arm. One with built in compass on right. If I'm not wearing it I keep my compass on the right and computer (without built in compass) on the left. Reason: cave light is on the left hand, makes it easy to shine on compass. Dump valves on jackets are on right and left. Good sidemount harnesses have dump valves in the middle and on the right side. Lights are bright on a modern compass, so either hand is ok.
The systems GUE use are only having dump valves on the left, not the right.
@@GUEdivers GUE training may be flawed because of equipment configuration.
@@scubaclient355 It is not just GUE. If you have a look through back plate and wing set ups you will find the majority to have a dump valve and inflator on the left hand side. Less failure points. As the majority of the back plate and wing (non recreational) set ups are used by these types of divers keeping the computer on the right hand side is quite satisfactory.
@@stephenfrawley5594 Tell me why you need to place the computer on the right arm? Most wing brands are made in the same factory, hence there DIR principles are contradictory. Let me know about the fail points of having it on the right where your free hand (one without the light) can dump air?
@@scubaclient355 You don't need to. It's your choice what equipment you use. To take three examples of brands: Apeks, XDeep and Halcyon all three have their range of backmount wings with a dump valve on the left and typically the inflator hose positioned on the left too so this can all be done with the left hand. If I'd my computer on my left hand it'd be out of sight while adjusting these. Usually if there are more dump valves it is additional to these ones and something else that can fail. Hence extra failure points. You'd need to specifically order a custom wing if you wanted a dump valve on the right. There are plenty of bcds that have more dump valves and the inflator often can be moved side. It's perfectly fine to use what ever set up you want and like that works for you, that's your preference. The advice still stands for the majority of equipment for the majority of divers, particularly in their target audience (though not only) so it is good advice.