Why is Indiana Jones & the Dial Of Destiny Bombing?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- 15 years after the second conclusion of the Indiana Jones Trilogy, Harrison Ford is back for one final crack of the whip in Indiana Jones & the Dial Of Destiny. With returning characters, new additions, stunts, a new time travelling magical maguffin and the legend himself Harrison Ford, this entry is bombing in such a way we haven't seen since...I dunno two weeks ago with The Flash. Anyways here's our spoiler review
1:00 Budget Blowout
3:00 Story
4:07 Initial thoughts
5:30 Comparisons to Rise Of Skywalker
7:40 The opening sequence & de-aging
11:50 Old Indy
15:28 Bland action sequences
16:19 Phoebe Waller-Bridge as Helena Shaw
18:50 Sallah returns & new characters
20:58 Mads Mikkleson
24:00 Classic Indy caving
24:54 John Williams score
25:53 Final non spoiler thoughts
27:11 SPOILERS (time travel)
29:58 Reshoot rumours
31:00 Time Travel pros and cons
36:00 Harrison Ford's performance
38:25 The Ending
42:21 Listener reviews
44:23 The future of the franchise
46:37 Why Dial Of Destiny bombed
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Isn't it obvious? No Shia LaBeouf.
That's reverse the thing that's happening with The Flash!
@@playman350 reverse flash?
@@bigkmoviesandgamesis that where you take someone else's clothes off?
We needed an actual cannibal in this movie.
@@itsbigzach2844no that is the perverse flash. You are thinking of when you put your clothes back on
This is weirdly the second franchise to unceremoniously kill Shia LaBeouf off screen.
I don’t think they did in Transformers. I think they just moved on to another character, which they’ve done several times I believe without killing. Unless you’re talking about a different series.
@@mrshmuga9I think there's a line in one of the newer movies implying that Shia's character is dead. Not 100% sure
@mrshmuga9 they show a family tree of the Witwiccans ending in a and then tell a different character that she's the last surviving member of the family. I don't blame you for missing it it's in like a several minutes long nonsense exposition scene lol.
Can't wait for a Holes reboot that has him killed by a lizard off screen
@@SeanwithanSE Yeah, Optimus murdered him in one of his characteristic fits of vengeance.
"It's okay for a story to end sometimes." IT DID! TWICE!
Without Spielberg and Lucas this felt like a non-canonical spinoff. The story ends with Indie getting married at the end of Crystal Skull and that’s that, in my mind anyway
@@LordJagd I was good with the Last Crusade being the end of Indy's adventures. They can keep their nuke proof fridges and greasers swinging through the jungle with monkeys at their back.
@@LordJagdYeh I just rewatched Kingdom last night and I felt like it was a perfect send off to his story. Not perfect but entirely serviceable to what came before. If they felt they wanted to do Indiana 5, they should have done it by 2010-2012. That was the right time to make a 5th and final film before Harrison was too old and people lost interest.
The target audience for this film was growing too old in age, seeing as most kids my age were more interested in superheros, transformers and such (2000's baby). I don't really see a draw for people my age to see this movie let alone younger people. It really was too little too late
@@BetaBreaking From what I read, Lucas had an idea for the fifth and final film as soon as they finished Kingdom. Spielberg, Lucas, and Ford wanted to make it for a long time. But after Disney took over Lucasfilm, issues arose and Lucas left the project, and Spielberg later left as well. Mangold is a friend of Ford so he was hired to take it over.
I agree about the age bracket issue, Indiana Jones just isn't popular among kids, just like mobster movies or westerns. "Too little too late" is probably the best summary of this movie's problems, well said.
Wouldn't be the first time Indiana Jones survived a giant bomb.
noice!
Nice Mate
That’ll do mate
You won, you won!
He’s not surviving this one
Dial of Destiny's underwhelming box office feels like a combination of four things:
-Premiering it at Cannes was a mistake as the mediocre word of mouth killed a lot of the marketing momentum and has made people less inclined to check it out.
-The Indiana Jones films' core audience skews older and there's been nothing in terms of the franchise's (small) recent presence or the concept of Dial of Destiny to get younger people in big numbers to come and see it.
-Its the kind of film that feels too late to make now. Indy 4 should have realistically been something that came out in the mid 90s while Ford was relatively younger, and then something like Dial of Destiny in 2008 to properly give the character a send off. His current age is something that turns off many potential audience members, and there's not been a lot of reports that the film effectively turns his older status into a dramatic strength like Stallone did with Rocky Balboa.
-Reshoots and other factors have ballooned the budget so much that its ensured that the film actually making a profit would be tricky even if the three previous elements weren't there.
Indy 5 as a movie in 2023 just has too much of an uphill climb to really do big numbers.
also a movie about 1980s era American masculinity probably wasn't bound for success with a 2020s global audience
@@whitleypediatell that to top gun.
@@rexthewolf3149 right, but Top Gun was still actually about 1980s' masculinity, rather than undermining it
And the trailers SUCKED
@@whitleypediahat’s completely horseshit. The 2020 audience you speak of is just Hollywood. Hence why Phoebe Waller Bridge is the lead role of this bait and switch film
I could’ve put this under any video of yours, but I could listen to you guys talk about anything for hours. To the both of you, the editors, and anyone else who’s involved in getting these videos out; thank you so much for being one of the most consistently entertaining channels on the platform, we appreciate it massively
Ha neeeeeerd
Ohhhhh! Sick burn! Take that Mason and the goat!
entirely seconded !! there's so many youtube channels i enjoy but eventually get tired of after long stretches, but MSM keep it fresh and fun and relaxed the entire time. love your videos, fellas !!
Far too annoying.
Indy rode off into the sunset in Last Crusade. He had his happy ending in Crystal Skull. What is this movie for other than Disney wanting money?
For me, it is a reminder that happy endings are often only a happy moment in life, and we live on and grow older. Wishing for the past, grieving for things lost, pining for another adventure. If the films are the story of Indy, as the video Raiding Indy's Lost Character Arc tries to make the case, exploring his old age is important to me.
@@troublewithweeblesWhy must old age be drenched in bitterness and sadness? Why can't Indy have aged into a well respected and accomplished old man?
Happy endings dont always happen.... but they still do happen. Its just as important to be reminded of that too... if not more so
@@troublewithweeblesBut the execution is terrible, just having some themes don't make a movie good they just spoil it unless the writing is good
@@TopTwom For Indy I think it makes a lot of sense, over the series we've seen that he's pretty terrible at relationships, he's lost a lot of close friends and now we see that the world has passed him by while he's been busy focusing on the past.
The original trilogy is Indy’s story.
KotCS is the final chapter.
And DoD is the epilogue.
I really wish it opened better.
Not for disney but for ford.
I've been loving his acting for my entire life.
Thank you. The scum bags ridiculing him for still being a viable leading man at 80 are going to be the same hypocrites hashtagging “legend” when he’s finally no longer here.
I agree. Ford really seems to care about this character and really wanted to give him a satisfying send-off (and Dial of Destiny is a satisfying send-off, in my opinion).
Nah I’m glad it didn’t. The last thing we needed was for Indiana Jones to suffer the slow painful death that Star Wars did.
The uncontrollable laughter at 44:52 is so genuine and I love it.
Isn't it interesting that it's the most replayed part of this video? Why do we instinctively focus on that moment? Is it because it's off-script and rare and reveal something valuable for the audience? There must be a sociological reason...
I read somewhere that the dial was originally going to be a mystical sapphire, leading to the studio calling the project "Blue Harvest"
Lol that was genuinely good! They need to hire you to write their Blue Harvest jokes lol, the last bunch I saw did not get me the way they used to
Nice one !
@@KrazzeeKane Did you know that in early drafts of the Mario Bros. Movie, the Blue Shell would play a prominent role as a MacGuffin device, leading to an early working title being RODNEY
@@mybumstudios1989 RODNEY?!
The original villain was going to be called Boblin Jr. aka Born of Boblin.
I think we're just entering the era where the studios have officially choked themselves out by offering all of their movies for free 30-45 days after release. You need a general audience to hit a billion, as you say, and how much if that general audience is still willing to pay $15 per ticket when for the same price they are getting that movie plus your entire back catalog at home, for infinite rewatches, in a month's time? Both their theatrical and DVD revenue streams are just gone.
Top Gun was huge, by comparison, but that's become an exception, not the rule. Indy already had his nostalgia comeback with Crystal Skull.
And not only that, they could watch it at their own home and pause/rewind at their leisure, or stop watching altogether if it’s boring them.
A movie like this one with bad reviews isn’t going to entice people to spend time/money on seeing it in the theatres.
Top Gun, Avatar, Mario… streaming isn’t the death knell that people make it out to be. If the movie is decent/great, people _will_ show up for it, If it’s mediocre or bad, THEN that’s where the idea of waiting to stream it comes in. Disney hasn’t put out a great movie in several years. They put out remakes no one wants, all the Marvel superheroes people cared about have moved on and the new ones aren’t good/interesting, and Rogue One was the only good LucasFilm movie they’ve released since a Disney bought them (the series haven’t fared better). People have lost faith in Disney putting out anything worth watching, with an IP that skews to older audiences that they made no attempt to appeal to younger ones, and where the actor was already old to do a follow up in the last one… 15 years ago, never mind today. Most people saw this film as unnecessary before a script was even written. The fact it wasn’t good reduced it’s chances of success even more.
@@mrshmuga9 you say that but look at the target audience for the 3 films you mentioned
Top gun: spectacle through and through
Avatar: spectacle film for families
Mario: full family movie for kids.
These are your core movie goer demographics now, families that need to fill a time slot and people choosing cinema specifically for the big screen. A casual viewer that is just interested in a movie but doesn't have any reason when you can just say 'oh ill watch it on the weekend'
@@l.p.7585 Barbie and Oppenheimer will likely do well. Barbie is not a children's movie, Oppenheimer (rated R) is also definitely not a family movie or much of a spectacle (some scenes will certainly be and it's a beautiful movie that will be pretty epic in IMAX but it doesn't contain much action). I believe hype, anticipation, talented directors, and an audience that wants good movies can still show to the box office. Word of mouth is powerful these days, meh Disney movies that we all expect to be meh and end up being meh result in underperforming revenue
@@mrshmuga9streaming doesn't hurt if people really want to see these movies but nobody is going to spend money and go just because they can when they know they'll see it pop up on their TV in a month or so.
It's for the best, eventually ticket prices will come down and theatres will start looking for alternative films to show alongside hollywood stuff.
The days of 20 blockbusters every month are probably over but it's going to make room for a lot of other stuff to be shown in theatres.
The best part of this review was Mason mentioning Doctor Who audio dramas. I knew he was a man of culture.
Speaking of WWI and a specific spoiler: One thing I haven't seen anyone mention is that Indiana Jones was actually friends with Ho Chi Minh, the leader of the Viet Cong who started the Vietnam War. They met during the Paris peace talks after the war and Indy helped him petition the French government for Vietnam's sovereignty.
This along with joining Pancho Villa (which was mentioned in Crystal Skull) and living with the Bolsheviks (which Crystal Skull bizarrely didn't mention) means that Indiana Jones joined 3 communist movements on different continents over the course of about 2.5 years.
I'm pretty sure he also knew the guy who invented jet fuel and rockets, which also ties into all the NASA plot.
Indiana Jones did a lot of stuff.
Young Indiana Jones is really just him doing a Forrest Gump before it was cool.
Secret Communist Indiana Jones is something Lucas would do lol.
@@Luminousreign I'd say he's more of a anarchist. Especially since he was good friends with various people who would be described as anarchist in Russia.
@@re1010maybe the real Forrest Gump was the friends we made along the way
@@re1010 Something something not real communists.
To add to the Top gun comment. The difference here is that Top Gun Maverick was following a movie that people look back on with fondness. Indy 5 is following Indy 4 which doesnt not have the same standing.
Plus, maverick didn’t have bad reviews two months before release.
People need to stop comparing the two, they’re completely different
Naw the reason why Top Gun Maverick was big was because it following a bad film with an excellent film. It was so surprising, that people were so amazed by it.
you sure it's not... quality of writing?
Top Gun Maverick was literally god damned Star Wars....Its hilarious when people herp derp about how amazeballs Top Gun Maverick was ignoring that the plot was literally Star Wars.
@@thomasffrench3639Tom Gun Maverick was big because it was good and it has Tom Cruise in it, who is someone you can trust to deliver an entertaining project
The deeper we go into the internet era the better marketing has to be. I honestly didn’t hear about this movie until a couple of days before release. That’s the way with a lot of movies lately.
The thing I’m finding is, you ‘hear’ about a movie for a year and a half but when it actually comes out it’s just under the same steady drone. There’s been so many movies lately that I’ve been somewhat interested in seeing, only to find they’ve come and gone weeks ago.
Also, this weird new way they stagger the release of a movie isn’t helping them. I feel like the big premier weekend isn’t a thing anymore.
Literally has nothing to do with that.
Nobody wants to see another movie with a unfunny ugly woman trying to act like a man while dogging on the main character. Kathleen Kennedy knows how to destroy franchises with woke garbage.
I feel like, for a lot of movies people say they received no information on, I did in fact see a lot of marketing. Maybe I’m the target audience or something, but I’ve been hearing about this movie for at least a year. But when actual trailers started appearing, I decided I wasn’t going to go see it. Everything about it just seemed uninteresting. I definitely don’t know this for sure, but I have a feeling that a lot of these movies that people think received little marketing were actually visible to a ton of people, but that a lot of these people just didn’t like what they saw.
@@derekgorman7939 I had been kinda hyped for a while to see Avatar 2 this year, made big plans to see it with friends, then I’m driving past a theatre and I see “oh it’s been out for over 2 weeks now. Guess I can wait for streaming”. Dune 2, same thing. Is that out? No clue.
@@johansmallberries9874well as a reminder Dune Part 2 comes out in November, just in case you wanted to see it and needed a reminder!
"Why is [Insert Mid-ass Movie] Bombing?" is becoming a weekly question at this point
It seems like in the post-COVID world it's possible for a big old summer blockbuster to be a hit, but it's not the normal situation. Most of them actually bomb. I think the quality bar is just higher. People are not going to go to the theater unless they're pretty sure it's going to be something special. That means your ideal situation is a movie like "Across the Spider-Verse" where it's not just a sequel to something you loved, it's also of very high quality, at least technically. I think they need that word-of-mouth buzz. "Top Gun: Maverick" and "Guardians of the Galaxy 3" were in the sweet spot too (honestly I thought Guardians 3 was just OK, but it seemed to be highly regarded). And it doesn't take much to just ruin the movie's buzz. "The Flash" probably would have been a big enough draw to be considered successful five years ago, but not now.
@@MattMcIrvin I'm not convinced much has actually changed. Red Letter Media did "fuck you, it's January/Forever!" 6 years ago now.
@@MattMcIrvin Its related to something that happened in 2019/2020, but I'll give you a hint, it wasn't covid.
I am 50 and even I couldn't believe they'd make one with Harrison Ford at age 80
It's remarkable, isn't it? Back in 1993 Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau were in Grumpy Old Men. At the time they were 68 and 73 respectively. Whereas Harrison Ford gets to play Indiana Jones at an age the other two never made.
What's your point? Technically in cannon with Indiana Jones he would be almost 80 now.
I know Harrison did it for the money, but how much does he need for his children, he should have just said no. No I will not ruin it,
@@shazanali692 wouldn't his children be around 45-50? That empty nest syndrome must be devastating!
A big factor I feel for some is the aesthetic. Just from the trailer, the film felt fake. Like many modern Hollywood movies do. I usually try not to let that bug me-I mostly let it go for Flash- since I’d stomached the show- but in a franchise like Indy, where you feel like the dirt from the film might get on your own clothes, cg chase scenes and environments don’t work.
This is the best explanation I've seen. Raiders was dirty gritty and real
@@robertfeldman2417 Exactly- you can practically feel the heat and the sweat on people- which I think people have actually said “why’s everyone so sweaty” That movie just feels so tangible.
The fact that if feels like there’s a thousand movies releasing so close together doesn’t help. There’s only so much time and money. If you have the flash, Indiana Jones, Transformers, and some lesser known movies coming out around the same time, and you can’t see them all, you just start picking and choosing
You can't see them all? Well hell, I just did so...
@@Devillionaire oh yea I did lol, but I’m speaking in general. Everyone isn’t gonna have the time or money available to go see all these movies (if they’re interested). Especially if you got bills or a family to take care of.
One could argue they had the same problem in 1989 with jones, batman, die hard, and ghostbusters 2 all coming out but cos films couldnt just cheat with a load of cgi and cos options for entertainment were more limited than they are now and cos the properties were still fresh people actually got more excited about seeing them than anyone does now when they have endless social media and streaming services taking attention away from film at the cinema.
@@johnb1150dam they had way better films back then lol
@@bigmanliam duno about better films, theres always good and bad films, what has changed is a blatant attempt to mine nostalgia that isnt paying off. Jones and batman couldnt just do everything on a computer in 89, they still had tricks but they werent so obvious as a world that is entirely composed of computer imaging. Thats the difference. Better technology means more apathy really but as i say to alot of people the magnificent seven had several sequels, none of them quite as good as the original and yul bryner only came back for the second so bad sequels are not a new thing.
I would rather have had Sala and Indiana go on one last adventure together instead of what we got.
or hell even short- round.. Kathleen Kennedy got to push her FEMALE though..
I think if Sallah had come along he would have been killed off so kinda glad that didn't go that route.
@@radiopadillayeah cause of course, there's never been an intelligent woman in an Indiana Jones movie before.
There’s literally a “go woke, go broke” guy in the comments. 🤣
@@TrekCycling There are several of them. Whenever a movie does badly, they show up to claim victory for their cause; and when a movie does well, they claim victory on that account, too ― regardless of the actual content of the movie.
The moon landing, represented the world looking towards the future, while Indy was stuck being passionate and obsessed with the past, and he himself was a relic of the past. I liked that element and wished they had a little bit more.
I 100% agree, at least James Mangold tried
I’m sure it’s been mentioned but despite Ford being nearly 80 when filming the movie, Indiana Jones himself is 70 in 1969 as in the Indy canon, Indy was born on 1st July 1899 😎
Wait, so Indy is only supposed to be in his late 30s in Crystal Skull? That's wild
@@antonimartinez9961 Crystal Skull is set in 1957 so he’d be 58 in that movie.
@@beardedgeektoyreviews836 Nope. Raiders is set in 28. Temple in 25 and last crusade in 30. Skull in 38.
@@antonimartinez9961 wrong Temple is set in 1935, Raiders in 1936, Last Crusade 1938, Crystal Skull 1957. There are even captions of the year at the beginning of the films.
Well, if 28 year Olds can play teenagers, I'm sure we can let Harrison Ford pretend to be a septagenarian.
You guys mention that they factor his age into this one, but there was no times in this movie where his age stopped him from doing anything. He was jumping into cars, punching people, riding a horse down a subway
I mean, he didn't do the usual stuff.
Yeah they could’ve written around his reduced mobility and made him use his wits more than his muscle. But instead he just does more boring action stunts than he used to.
There was far less current Harrison Ford jumping and running in this. Most the chases involved vehicles of some kind or jogging through crowds.
Even before the movie was released, I imagined the best case scenario for audience reception would resemble what we saw with Ghostbusters Afterlife. You're coming at general audiences with a movie that is essentially a love letter to a series that has been long dormant. As a fan of both series, I'm perfectly happy to get movies that have their imperfections, but really are essentially gifts to the dedicated fan base. Then out of curiosity a couple of days before Dial of Destiny was released I saw the projected budget of 295 million and knew immediately they had made a very, very bad move. No way in hell this doesn't flop just by hard numbers alone. Just an insane amount of money to throw at something that just wasn't going to bring in the masses.
Ghostbusters wasnt dormant though there was the film in 2016, thats only several years ago, and afterlife only resulted because of the outrageously over the top response to the other, why jason reitman decided to transform a screwball comedy into a sentimental drama though is the real mystery
There is another unspoken issue. It's the curse of Glasgow Scotland!! The most recent movies shot in Glasgow are- Indiana Jones 5, The Flash and Batgirl!!! To have the outdoor location work on the three biggest disasters in cinematic history shot in the same city is really quite spooky!
Glaswegian here. I remember when they were shooting World War Z here, and that was shit too.
About the only good superhero film to be shot here recently was The Batman with Robert Pattinson.
For a split second I thought they were being genuine that Indy killing JFK was a real plot point of this movie
Glad I clicked this just for the added preamble. I think anyone paying attention to your channel(s) and podcast can tell that you’ve been organising a lot so that you (and your family) can achieve some really great stuff and continue making content. I imagine the grind has been huge for you James, hope Claire’s experience is rewarding the effort and challenges she’s taken on here. You’ve managed some great continuity with putting content out and the entire Planet Broadcasting entity (all editors, talent and everyone else in your corner) continue to be a wonderful unit.
Big love from the UK!
Aside from those early summer hits like GOTG, Spiderverse it feels like everything is bombing recently
Can’t believe they didn’t talk about Indy’s use of glasses in this movie
I wasn't expecting people to flock to the theaters to see a new Indiana Jones in 2023 lol
Right
If Lucasfilm got new leadership and they actually did the deaging right, they could have made a cool throw back movie that takes place slightly after Last Crusade. I think people would flock out for something like that. It would feel like we had a Time Machine to make missed opportunities possible again. Haha
@yajy4501 that would be cool but I genuinely don't think it matters how good the movie is. Indiana Jones just isn't a character that excites most modern audiences in my opinion
I think the reason it’s bombing is simply that they didn’t have more aliens in it
Don’t you mean “inter-dimensional beings”?
@@directorforplastic7929 you’re right my apologies
The movie should have just been Mutt fighting interdimesional beings
Was the whipping performer at the premiere called Jacques Ze Whipper by any chance?
I feel we have numerous factors taking place. The obvious one being so much CGI use compared to the practical stunts and magic of the first 3 movies. The fact this story came out 30 something years to late, the fact Spielberg and Lucas didn't help create the story or direct . The only good we can give this film is John Williams music
Hate to break it to you but both Lucas and Spielberg had a hand in creating the story. They were specifically sought out for input.
@@lutherheggs451- And Spielberg hand-picked Mangold to adapt the basic plot idea into a script when he gave up the director’s chair.
This whole narrative is so weird, especially when it’s skewed off of the “Lucas and Spielberg should be pilloried for destroying Indiana Jones forever” take from 2008.
@@lutherheggs451They did nothing to make this movie so garbage, they only have their names in credits for their previous work. The credit for this being such a mess and a flop is Katleen Kennedy who destroyed Star Wars and Phoebe horse face
Using CGI in an Indy film is so stupid
A lot of it was practical, but muddied by CGI sets and face replacement.
I think a bigger issue now days is the budgets. This movie might make more than 200 million dollars domestic and its being discussed as a huge bomb. The budgets have gotten out of control.
It was fascinating to listen to your "how to make Indiana Jones 5" vid from 6 years ago and compare to this.
I would like to see this ranked with other films where a character comes back only older
and also rank time travel movies
#Art 👌
46:45 You know, in a rational world, the wild success of "Across the Spider-Verse" would be an automatic refutation of every "go woke go broke" argument ever made, because that's the kind of movie that would totally have been analyzed that way if it had failed. Since it's a huge hit, we don't hear that.
But that movies is original and good. It’s respectful of legacy characters. Everyone is pivotal to the plot. People just don’t like the subversive deconstructed lazy approach of recycling franchises
You seem to lack the clear distinction between well written characters & pandering. Spiderverse has timeless & universal concepts of a good story. Nice strawman false-equivalency, that's essentially like saying "you don't have the right to criticize Velma if you like Fresh Prince of Bel-air" those things are nothing alike outside of the fact a black character exists. Ever consider maybe it's all of the surrounding contextual factors (writing, characters, respect for the audience, entertainment) that are why nobody likes it?
@@Coconut-219Because "people" definitely don't complain about pregnant Spider-Woman, Indian Spider-Man, and openly support for BLM and Transgender kids... they only can't use "go woke go broke" argument here.
@@carlstanford7607Please, if Spider-verse failed, there would already be hundreds of "go woke go broke" videos...
Right, so what people want is a well written story with good characters.
THEY SHOULD HAVE LAST CRUSADED IT!
- Recast Mutt(DON'T kill him)
- Father/son adventure
- charming characters, interaction and dialogue
- something about the modern technology making old archaeologist type people obsolete.
50:57 I see we have a man of culture... Tartakovsky hand drawn clone wars is much better vibe than Filoni version
I think continental drift does influence the rifts output location, but the implication is that the dial would always bring them to the Siege of Seracuse and it was a fixed point because it had already happened because the watch and the dial had already been made which would require Indy and Co. to at some point end up at the siege. So yes continental drift is what caused it, but the flaw in calculating what continental drift would do with the rifts was a fixed point because time cannot be altered because it all has always happened. It was destiny!!
There is an alternative to the Luke Skywalker treatment or pretending he has not aged a day: he is well regarded by his peers and rightly proud of his many accomplishments
Heaven forbid!!!
Would have been a good way to start it. Then put this good new life in peril and see what he does to save it. Or, put the choice of "more fortune and glory" or "continue this good life" and see if Indiana has grown from that moment in the tent when he left Marion tied up.
@@alarin612that’s pretty much every character who came out of retirement before this
@@marcosgin777 Tried and true. Plus, it would be that much more meaningful for Indy, since he never really grew from that moment in the tent.
Except maybe at the end of Last Crusade ... where they should've left it.
@@alarin612Indy leaves Marion in the tent so that the Nazis don't get suspicious and come looking for her. It's not so he can seek fortune and glory. He says it in the scene. He has a chance to rescue the arc before the Nazis get it and he's gonna come back for her.
I went to watch this film last night and there's only three audience, including me and those two looks like 30 to 40-year-old middle aged men and I'm the only young person to watch it, when I booked the ticket, it shows four people so there's two people who didn't even bother to go watch it despite spending money on the ticket.
OK, granted it could be because of working day and being at night, but I went and watch Spiderman Across the Spider-verse at Thursday night and there's tons of audiences so I think it's just simply because no one bother to go watch this film, I guess people these days rather go watch Marvel or Fast and Furious.
I enjoyed the movie tho, the fact I'll be able to watch a new Indiana Jones film and hearing John William score in a theater is enough for me to go watch it, just wished more people would watch it.
RE lens choices as mentioned at about 8 minutes - I spent almost all of this film thinking "did they not have any wide lenses on this shoot?" Everything seemed to be in a mid or a close, even opening scene shots where it's supposed to 'set the scene' in this new location.
For me the action scene I immediately think of is the train escape at the start of the movie. That’s felt pretty iconic to me idk
Seems to me like it just takes a LOT to get people in theater seats these days. Even movies that are okay but not great are just tanking. I think we're getting to a point where KIDS are fine waiting until a movie is streaming.
I think we may be at a point where the "kids" don't care to watch at all.
Agreed. I'm in my 40s and only go as I've got a yearly cinema pass, as otherwise it's WAY TOO expensive.
Why did it take $300 million to produce this?? That’s part of the problem. Lucasfilm may need some shakeups too. Also, going to the theater is expensive for a lot of people. Pricing out the average person.
$329 million by some reports. Its one of the most expensive movies ever made which is crazy
@@johno1544 that’s insane. It’s Indiana Jones, not Avatar 3.
Reshoots, stopping and starting during COVID and extensive CGI
@@decrulezalso, Harrison Ford and Spielberg aren't cheap
The entirety of Hollywood is a large money laundering scheme
60 millions opening is not bad for Indiana Jones, it’s a very old IP with not a lot going on. The problem is the 325 millions of budget! Whoever was overseeing the budget to this should be fired
Kathleen Kennedy
JFK’s died? I didn’t even know he was sick
The guy who killed him was a real jerk!
- Overblown budget on a movie nobody wanted nor asked for
- Nobody wants to see old and depressed Indy
- Everyone is sick of the garbage Disney as made from George Lucas' properties and the treatment legacy characters are getting from them
Lol shut up
I don’t think most people give a shit about the treatment of legacy characters
@@elliottwatt5297Maybe not most people but I think that enough people to make a difference do give a shit.
@@KJM1984 yeah maybe, personally I feel that their treatment of Old Indy is really respectful and very real. It doesn’t baby him, and makes him feel like a really relatable character.
@@elliottwatt5297 The box office for Lucasfilm and Disney indicates otherwise.
If they waited and rewrote the script featuring Ke Huy Quan this shit would have made a billion dollars
No it wouldn't have...LMFAO people need to get off Short Round's nuts. Temple of Doom is the most hated of the original 3 by the majority of people, you can like the actor but not like the character or the film. Nobody is clamoring for more Short Round.
Hey short round you’re taller than I remember. Mr Jones, you’re older. Roll credits.
You can justify Phoebe’s character with certain logic but it doesn’t make her any less terribly annoying 😂
I think she ended up having a good arc but they made her far too unlikable early. She was supposed to be an even more selfish mirror of Indy from the early movies but they forgot to give her redeemable qualities early in the movie, and then right when you think she’s changed a bit after connecting with the boat guys, hearing about mutt and saving Indy she is immediately cold again when Indy talks about his buddy being murdered. I wish they just reeled her in a little bit early because she did end up better by the end.
De-aging is such a weird trend. Like the Irishman, where yeah, it's technically seemless but still bizarre because De Niro still has "old-man" facial proportions like the nose and earlobes 😅
Absolutely and De Niro still walked like an old man.
Saw this one in theatres and it was enjoyable. After leaving, i described it as "fine". I keep having to defend certain movies like these because I feel like every single movie that comes out now has to be this big giant thing. Like eveything has to be perfectn 10/10. It was fine. It was entertainment. I got my money's worth and then moved on.
That's the majority of moviegoers these days I feel, most movies are somewhere between 4-7 out of ten in my opinion but so many people sway towards it's amazing or it's terrible.
I think if you're trying to make a movie and don't expect that it's going to be incredibly good, then don't make it a sequel or remake of something that people love.
If you just put a little bit more effort in and make a similar but unique IP people will judge it on it's own merits.
You can't blame audiences for expecting Indiana Jones quality from an Indiana Jones movie.
If they'd cast somebody else and called them something totally different maybe people would expect less.
The reshoot was from when she punched him onwards. He's wearing the hat when he's punched - he's not wearing it at any other point in the scene.
There literally weren’t any reshoots. He puts the hat on, she punches him, then the Marion scene plays as it was always going to. God you’re gullible
@@fishstick8555 straight in with the name calling. It’s no skin off my back if you really believe an award winning writer like James Mangold wrote such an astonishingly off-beat ending that was tonally mismatched from the rest of his own story, and this wasn’t the result of studio meddling, from a studio with a notorious recent history of meddling.
It’s absolutely WILD that Disney has made their name synonymous with garbage movies, and they continue in spite of themselves, it’s baffling.
Garbage movies, that also cost a quarter of a billion dollars each.
Four of the highest grossing movies of 2023 are Disney products.
Globally.
It’s WILD that you people think your “taste” reflects that of humanity at large.
Its all Kathleen Kennedy. Her woke feminist garbage destroys franchises. That ugly wench she tried to replace Indy with was laughably stupid.
@@tcaprecap1448 Reminder that you have to double the budget to account for marketing costs. And that’s just a guesstimate, it may be more. So this movie cost at least half a billion dollars. It’s definitely not gonna make that back.
@@mouapravda2667 Box office does not reflect quality.
If this movie had a real standout moment, I would have to say it's when they arrived to the Battle of Syracuse.. I was not expecting them to go that far back and meet Archimedes himself.. that felt very much like a moment from one of the old video games, or one of those educational moments from the old TV show, and I found it to be very memorable. Especially with the dumbass Nazis shooting the door guns at ancient Romans, only to have their stupid Nazi plane get speared. 😂
I’m tired of reboots remakes and sequels. I’m not too excited to watch a 90 year old man try to relive his glory days
We have the US presidential elections for that! Got 'em!
I know there was that whole anti-reboot sentiment a while back, but I think at this point I'd take a reboot over all this "remember the original movies? Here's an old guy who was from those" nonsense. And it seems like this bomb indicates the moviegoing public agrees. Give us more Fury Road, and less Rise of Skywalker.
My only critiques are that it could’ve been a little shorter, the time-travel plot point could’ve been delved into more (reached that part faster also), and Helena’s character could’ve been more relatable/likable. It’s a good, fun Indiana Jones movie regardless.
Because audiences are sick of the “Your favorite character from your childhood is an old failure who wants to die and burn” trope.
Also the political angles didn’t help…
What "political angles"?
@@ExtremeMadnessX
Any of them. Disney is notorious for not being capable of writing well written politically driven dialogue.
“She stole that from me!”
“After you stole it from someone else. It’s called capitalism.”
If you’re gonna sit there and tell me that’s anything other than bottom tier bad idk what to do to help you.
@@PirateKingBoros But she didn't say anything wrong. Also, in the new Spider-verse, they have an openly anarchist character who openly talks against fascism, government, and capitalism.
@@ExtremeMadnessX
“I think it’s true so shit dialogue is fine as long as it’s a message I agree with and what about this other completely unrelated thing.”
Seriously dawg listen to yourself. Peak shill NPC dialogue over here.
@@PirateKingBoros Projecting...
I think the cgi on young Harrison ford really should have been better then it was because I don’t normally notice that, I just watched all the old ones in preparation and the first time he talks he has a completely different voice and speech pattern to what he used to have, also when he’s walking away into the distance at the end of the scene you can clearly see his poster and frame is different, you don’t want to get a stunt man for that?
Looks like Mangold won't get his own Star Wars movie after this bomb
Are you looking for a video editor? Great video by the way, or should I say, great podcast video! Enjoyed the talk.
Personally, I think it should've ended after they literally rode off into the sunset in the 3rd movie. It was great and wrapped things up nicely. The 4th was just a CGI headache, so I'm not keen to pay movie theater fucking prices for the 5th one.
I like this movie and thought it was well thought out, which makes a change.
That whole AI Luke 'not ghoulish' rant was HILARIOUS 💚
For those on the fence, go see it. Its fantastic.
Disney really did just buy out Lucas with absolutely ZERO idea of what they actually wanted to do with the universes huh.
Of course they did. They figure these things will sell themselves because they are well known and established properties, but have come to find out continuing the gravy train is a lot harder than they thought.
Frankly I'm at the point where a movie has really got to be something special to get me to drive out to a theater nowadays, and Indy 5 just ain't that special.
So you didn't see the movie?
@@maxxravin3478
Not many people have. 😂
the big bomb thumbnail has returned
This is the only one where the paramount logo doesn’t turn into a geological feature
I am squarely in the target demo for this--male, 44, watched the other 3 movies as a kid--and I had no interest in going to the theater for this.
I DID originally, but the marketing--trailer, weirdly uneven critical reception, some vague hints that the third act was sort of silly--really dampened any hype I had. And then when I did finally listen to some full reviews with spoilers, I was glad I didn't waste time with this in the theater.
Honestly, I'm sort of done with movies for a bit anyway. I did the whole "going back to the theaters after Covid" thing for like 8 months, and I feel like the honeymoon is over. Blockbusters are just so hit or miss, it just feels like a huge waste of time unless I am SUPER hyped to see the movie.
Interesting to hear another view of this film…most of the people I’ve talked to hated it🤷🏽♂️
This movie to me just reeks of a widespread unhappiness. The whole movie just feels sad about the idea that it's not the 80s anymore, and we're not in the heart of everything that we love.
No matter how badly you want to, you can never go back and make more true Indiana jones adventures, just like how we'll never really get to see everything Luke Han and Leia did after Jedi, or we'll never see Arnold as the Terminator we know and love.
We just need to accept that some things are over and make new movies with actors and effects that make sense, instead of spending 300 million dollars to try and convince ourselves indiana jones can still be an action hero.
Look at this comment section. Widespread unhappiness that it isn’t the 80s anymore is the zeitgeist for most of these poor people.
Can’t fault Mangold for holding up a mirror to the empty hole where fandom’s soul should be.
At least we still got James Bond
Just here to read the H8 mail (with an 8 in it) comments before the pod next week 👍
So much old man yelling at cloud and I love it
Iconic characters reduced to misery and failure with their happy ending ruined is not a good starting point to attract fans of the franchise. For new audiences they need to do a better job of introducing the characters backstory with a compelling plot. Disney star movies for example were incomprehensible to people unfamiliar with Star Wars 😂
This. I logged onto the comments to find this. Luke and Indy were both reduced to bitter, miserable old men. THAT was the problem. It is not a mystery.
Honestly I don't really have a problem with this movie not appealing to new audiences, it's not for them. I also think they handled Indy becoming a bitter old man quite well, it felt on brand for him. And we actually saw what made him that way, everything that happens in all the films 😂 he sucks at relationships and lost people close to him over and over. Also the world passed him by while he was busy searching for ancient stuff, makes total sense to me.
@@dustinakadustin They made a story ABOUT him becoming bitter and miserable and then supplied reasons it made sense. They could have just made a story about something else. Something long time paying customers would have actually enjoyed. The criticism is not that they failed to come up with reasons for the beloved characterto be bitter and miserable, the criticism is that they went in the bitter-miserable direction in the first place.
Disney Star Wars was equally incomprehensible to people familiar with Star Wars
@@dustinakadustinWhen you’re returning to a franchise, with a limited audience, and no chance of newcomers joining in, and people already felt the last one was contrived… 15 years ago, which makes this feel especially unnecessary… you should probably go with a more optimistic approach that will please what handful of fans exist. Especially (be more upbeat) for what’s supposed to be an action-adventure movie, exciting and optimistic.
It’s just an insult to the fans, the character, and the actor… “Look, we brought back a decrepit actor, for one last movie, at a point where it’s well past the point where we should do this… just to show the character is miserable and wants to die. Money please.” Who do you expect to win over with that kind of pitch? A few die-hands at most, as the numbers show. The only reason I bothered was because my friend had free tickets he wanted to use up, there wasn’t anything else he was mildly interested in, and we figured we’d at least get out making fun of it at least. They had an opportunity to make a nice send off and it was just sad to watch… but also boring, and way too long.
Honestly, if Star Wars hadn’t been so brutally mangled, even if this movie was the worst movie ever made it still would have raked in a ton of money. Since the departure of Lucas, Lucasfilm have dug their own grave. Instead of being associated with creating iconic films, it’s now associated with ruining iconic series. To have one of their movies make a great profit, it would not only have to be good, it would have to be downright incredible so word of mouth would spread. It’s time for new leadership in the company if they even want a chance of it not all falling apart more than it already has.
1. We have an 80 year old man as the lead, and this ain’t Up.
2. We are coming off a movie that wasn’t beloved, and that movie came out almost 15 years ago.
3. There’s nothing in here for Gen Z. At the time of Crystal Skull, Shia was very popular with younger fans. Who is in this that a teenager would be interested in seeing? Most teens have never seen an Indiana Jones movie. Why would they care about this?
4. Bad buzz for years on this. The rumors of Fleabag taking over turned off a large portion of the fans. This franchise is a fantasy wish fulfillment for MEN. Yes, women like these movies, too, but it’s a male-driven franchise. Indy is a fantasy figure for men, like Bond is. He’s smart, tough, gets hot women, and saves the day. Men don’t want to see their fantasy figure turned into a sad sack who is “put in his place” by a shrew. If men enjoyed being put in their places by shrews, they wouldn’t hang out at the bar or in their man-caves. They’d hang out with their wives instead.
Thank you for the Mott the Hoople reference.
Sorry it doesnt need to be one or the other just because people don't want to see IJ as some TLJ Jake Skywalker it doesnt mean they need him to be exactly the same character as he was before but 80.
Exactly. I don’t understand their binary viewpoint on this. It’s almost like James should come out and say, “I mean, what else can they do?”
So lazy
Yeah the film had like 5% genuinely good "Indy moments"(tm) even despite Harrison Ford's age, it's more the other 95% of the film people had a problem with.
Maybe Hollywood will stop making sequels to old properties now.
I mean, there's the fact this is my first time hearing there was a new Indiana Jones movie coming out.
49:49 -- Didn't expect a Big Finish shout out
12:04 James’ explanation as to why he likes where we find Indiana Jones at the beginning of this film is so weak. “He’s old, he can’t do the stuff he used to do and the audience wouldn’t like it either” is not an excuse to implement an overused character archetype and make Indiana’s life miserable. It’s so lazy, boring, and disrespectful to a lot of characters.
Why couldn’t he be a successful dean who is about to retire and has to go on one last adventure? He could play a mentor role to a younger character who does more of the action bits. Indiana would use his intelligence and education to solve problems and find the MacGuffin of the film.
It’s not hard to write, they just don’t care.
Theres the Rocky Balboa route and theres the Luke Skywalker route. They chose the latter.
@@TopTwom There’s more options than just those two archetypes. You can write anything, don’t be so limited
@@jordanjacksonshouseofhorrors of course there is. I was just refering to a couple of opposites. A character who ages into a learned and respected teacher and a character who fell flat on thier ass and needed a spry young women to give them back thier mojo.
Indy deserved something more akin to Rocky's arc, and not what Disney did with Luke
@@TopTwomLuke sky walked route was awesome soooo
I love when they replace a male character with a strong independent woman.
They didn't replaced Indiana Jones. Her character isn't much different than any other main female characters in previous movies.
Do you talk about the glasses? There needs to be a time code for that.
Never even occured to me before but how on earth did we never got an animated Indiana Jones show? Been a life long fan but I never even watched a single episode of Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, if it'd been a cartoon edutainment show from the 80s or 90s I'd have been watching every week!
The Mummy had a popular Indy-esque animated series.
You keep comparing to Luke.
It makes sense for Indy to be a grumpy old man. It doesn’t make sense for Luke.
It was always in Indy’s character. I never wanted to see old Luke making flips, I just wanted him to be the wise old Jedi.
For Indy I think it’s perfect with an old man full of regrets.
LucasFilm has now given us old, depressed, sad versions of Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Willow, Obi-Wan and Indiana Jones. Meanwhile Tom Cruise seems to have a ton of fun (and making all the money) playing Maverick and Ethan Hunt. So strange that audiences prefer their legacy heros smiling, having fun and having actual narrative agency.
Bingo. You nailed it
Tom Cruise said TG:M was for the fans. I believe him. Would I believe it of the other stuff? Ehhhhhhh.
I wish they had used Alden Ehrenreich for the flashbacks
These podcasts are so much fun! Great review
I liked the part where Indy and Chewbacca are saved from the space Nazis only through the cunning wiles of Phobe Waller-Bridge.
You can have a character age and become grizzled and mature and not do all the things they used to do without luxuriating in it and making them severely depressed and pathetic
Would you not be depressed if your son died and your wife left?
@@yoshikagekira564 Simple solution - don't kill his son and have his wife leave him
@@yoshikagekira564I think you have the chain of causality a bit backward here. The writers didn't have him depressed because his wife is gone and his son is dead - they had his wife gone and son dead because they wanted him to be depressed.
@@coyoteone6197 and you think this becauseeee….?
Boomers have become an alienated and pathetic shadow of their former greatness, and millennials and gen-xers are headed in the exact same direction.
It’s a decision that reflects the reality that human beings have accepted for themselves, no wonder Mangold is so good at exploring it.
I watched it on Disney+ last night and enjoyed it. Low expectations helped I’m sure and it isn’t the first 3 of course, but I’d say it’s at least on par with crystal skull which also isn’t bad in hindsight
Compared with spiderverse and transformers which I've seen a million ads for I haven't seen any marketing for it. I didn't know this movie existed until all my favorite youtubers started talking about it last week.
Really enjoyed this, even the batshit ending. Thought the call backs were spot on as well, especially Indy ignoring Teddy's directions in the toktok, just like Short-Rounds on the mine carts in Temple of Doom. Also everyone is great in it.. shoddy effects aside
If Kathleen Kennedy survives this, then she really does know some real deep dirt on some powerful people.
James, your accent while saying "father" is the best thing I ever heard!
It's no mystery why Dial of Destiny isn't doing well. It's because it has mixed reviews, Spielberg didn't direct it, Crystal Skull was a disaster, and no one was asking for *another* conclusion to Indiana Jones. Personally, I love Indiana Jones and grew up watching the original trilogy, but even I have decided to skip this one for all the reasons that I just mentioned.
I have a theory they made a filmed 2 movies which why the budget for the movie skyrocketed the first 30 minutes of the movie was the ending to another movie and the rest was the sequel to that movie