Lord of the the Rings: The Rings of Power might be over, but when I found this podcast I had to cover it. It took a lot longer than I had expected to organise and I think I could have spoken for several hours if I had actually covered all of the points I wanted to make on it to their full effect. But what do you think about what the showrunners said, do you think Halbrand will make a good Walter White anti-hero in season 2? Did the one ring make Bilbo throw a massive party? Let me know your thoughts down below and as always, thanks for watching :)
Halbrand is a fantastic sympathetic protagonist, and I am 100% on his side. He just wanted to leave his dark past behind and Karendriel shoved him headlong into evil, then kicked him when he asked for some affection.
I really don't care what happens in season 2. Cancelled all my streaming subscriptions around episode 2 of ROP. Fed up with all the woke crap. Was watching lock & key on Netflix which wasn't half bad, but went full woke in season 2. I have much fun watching reviews and especially yours. The sarcasm is really great lol!
i think they know as much about Breaking Bad as they do about Tolkien if they honestly believe that's even possible.... they've already ruined the possibility already but hope the audience is too stupid to notice....
The fans: “Where’s Celeborn?” RoP writers: “he’s missing” The fans: “How did he go missing?” RoP: “It’s a mystery” The fans: “When did he go missing?” RoP: “it’s a mystery” The fans: “Why has he gone missing?” RoP: “ to ship Galadriel and Sauron, duh” The fans: *facepalms* Remember that these show runners claim to be “faithful” to Tolkien, sexual tension between Galadriel and Sauron is the exact kind of fan fiction he would hate most
@@AbsentMinded619 I wish they had, it would have been hilarious. If you're gonna dig up Tolkien's corpse and violate him you might as well go all the way.
for real im glad i didnt watch that crap....the thought of these 2 having that kind of tension makes me physically unwell.....and im not even kidding or saying it to bring a point im really not feeling good thinking about it
Imagine how angry Tolkien would be at the even hint they were meant to be shipped *girlie giggle* ugh 😩 I think I'm glad he's dead. But I'm also wondering how his family feel for selling out so grossly. Oopsie.
@@rosiecatbandit Christopher would have been furious, but the grandchildren only seem to care about the money. The vibe I get from Simon Tolkien (who's a 'consultant' on RoP) is a deep resentment towards his father for defending JRR's legacy and a positive delight in seeing it crapped all over. Plus he lives in CA and is an unsuccessful writer so ...
They are privileged, eliteest, cliched ridden adult children. Smart at manipulation and knowing how to hangout in Hollywood, but desperately out of touch with reality and completely ignorant of anything outside their bubble. So your typical showrunner these days.
I motion that we call these types shadowrunners because when they try to 'ad' ( showrunner+ad = shadowrunner) anything of their own they are clearly in a place that cannot see the light ( of the source material )
@@rildsilverlok Ive got a better idea. These showrunners insist on inserting themSELVES into their show, that means theyre inserting their "*I*" . When you insert an 'I' in showrunner, you get "showruiner"
yeah the worlds elite believe themselves to be smart, they aren't and its how we got here and also why nearly all of the hollywood studios are in billions of debt
They are not creators, the are cut and paste artists; they just steal from other shows and films and paste them into their shows; the best lines are stolen from other shows
Disney does that with Star Wars, rather than stealing lines from other shows though, they steal stories from the Legends material they said they were tossing. And they change it and work it into their warped, agenda driven version of Star Wars, thereby ruining what would otherwise be good material. You guys ever wonder why you're seeing such a consistent pattern of behavior across so many different franchises under the control of so many different corporations? How can you have that many different companies, and that many different properties, but the exact same approach to them is being taken, with the exact same political motivations...? and if you think the culture war isn't a political consideration, think again... food for thought. ✌🐸
Reminds me of 1984 when it talks about songs being written with a kaleidoscope type device that sort of mad-libs in lyrics from a list of acceptable words.
I cannot BELIEVE they basically called Sauron an antihero?? How can they not have anyone evil actually be evil?? Why do we need to feel empathy for every bad guy and fall for their handsome charms I’m so confused??
The good guys cant even be good. They even speak about Elrond at one point and how horrible he is and they say "its the right thing to feel about him at that time, but itll be different the next week". They seem to think this is what people mean by character arc. Flipflopping personalities where everyones evil.
They're so morally bankrupt that they can no longer distinguish between Good and Evil -- at all. And Amazon intentionally allowed them to act as showrunners for this show. The results were both predictable and predicted.
@@disparutoo ''I don't think they understand their own show'' Okay, no offence Disparu, but these fems DO understand the show and they are wrecking it on purpose - and YOU are the one who doesn't understand their motivations. You either don't understand it, or can't admit it. One of those two
@@tuorofgondolin8235 Well, culture has been taken over by a H8 movement ( starts with ''F'' and ends in ''ism'') - so of course the show turned out this way
@@disparutoo @14:36 - ''was it that you thought the story was wrong...that it wasn't good enough'' - Answer: Yes - The story appeals to men, so they changed it so it wouldn't appeal to men. Simple, isn't it?
"She is unlikeable because she does not do what you would do, but does what she would do" Yes and what she chooses to do is not only unlikeable but arguably immoral. If you hear people including children crying for help and you walk away instead of helping them, then calling you unlikeable is the mild way to put it
I found this funny, because she is unlikable because she is doing what she wouldn't do. Galadriel is a badass, she went with her forces into dol guldor twice! she mad lorien a refuge for the wood elves, and helped the fellowship. She's compassionate, wise, loyal and empathic. Guyladriel is hot headed, stubborn, narcissistic and selfish. Even if they say she is younger back in the second age, she isn't that young and is already Lady Galadriel, being a wife and mother at this point in the timeline.
@@THEROSSAGE this younger Galadriel argument from the shills is so weak as she's older than the other main elf characters and close to 3000 years old by the time of the show
Writers: “why did she jump off the ship? You’ll be asking that for years after watching “ Watchers five seconds after she jumps off ship: “wow she’s an idiot for jumping off ship”
Seriously - and I love that they take it as a foregone conclusion that anyone would watch the whole load of crap all the way through once-let alone twice! They are So convinced of their incredible work of genius that they are excitedly spewing their theories it. Would be humorous if they hadn’t just finger-painted over a Van Gogh!
Exactly, all roads lead to idiot. If she jumped off with no plan, she’s an idiot. If she was banking on what happened actually happening, she’s an idiot. It doesn’t help the only other motivation Galadriel (or any character present) can have is “the author needed me to act this way.”
@@burntumbrage6868 There's not a single moment in the whole show that I would consider rewatching... But I could spend an hour just watching clips of the trilogy 20 years later.
@@BigSeanH - exactly. Man, god bless Peter Jackson for doing his best to bring Tolkein’s work to the screen-Not someone else’s! That trilogy will continue to be rewatched forever and will still stand up.
@@kaltaron1284 It's a game of telephone, fantasy multiplied by fantasy becomes noise and nonsense. Reality through the lens of fantasy can be meaningful and useful to the heart. Sauron should be a reflection of deeper evil, corruption, this foreboding sense of something being deeply wrong in the world. It's a sense that you can draw from reality, when you see war or suffering, and you see it happens again and again, and you have to bear with it, and answer to yourself how you will live knowing that evil exists. And so a story about little people facing evil becomes something that you can project yourself on, and your heart remembers somehow, subconsciously, these heroic stories. Relating Sauron to another fictional character that was himself a reflection of other human errors and fundamental flaws creates noise and a distance from the truth. Parts of every story and character are just flair or circumstance, creations to suit the purpose of a wider, more meaningful story, but not meaningful in and of themselves. But if you build off of them, you end up with foreign objects and detritus in your portrayal, artifacts of mimicry, it's not being built whole cloth off of a deeper reality or principle, but as a signal towards the particularities of some other cultural chunk. It's why so many remakes and reboots suck, because they build off of the signalling of these prior stories, but not the deeper ideological senses that were unfolding into these stories. And so these new products clash, or feel noisy, or forced, and elements are included that do nothing or even act counter to what could have been delivered, just for the sake of waving a flag to say, "ah yes, this is that thing you saw before, look, it has the same characters and they're wearing the same pants they used wear."
@@KingMinish Firstly what you describe does fit Morgoth better than Sauron IMHO. Sauron is misguided ambition. Trying to control and improve in twisted ways. Morgoth is hatred against what another has made and trying to undo it. Remakes can be good. They will never be the same as the original and they may strike different tones. But that doesn't mean they can't be good. The problem is when they diverge too much or the quality is simply not there. The Batman reboots for example weren't bad. Spiderman had some good reboots. I've heard good things about Ginka Eiyuu Densetsu (Legend of the Galactic Heroes) but haven't seen it yet. Same for Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood although in that case it's more like a different and more faithful adaptation after the source material had finished. Similar to Hellsing Ultimate.
That podcast is possibly the worst thing ever heard by human ears. The showrunners should be forced to eat every page of the Silmarillion, the Hobbit and the LOTR trilogy as penitence for their destruction of Tolkien. Also, early congratulations Disparu on a thoroughly deserved 100k subs.
Saying "antiheroes and moral grey areas are so tolkinian" is incredible. Not only do they not have a single clue what they are talking about, they know and they are confidently lying about it.
Eh, if you look at the Silmarillion there certainly are plenty such characters and situations. But most if not all of those Antiheroes would have gotten themselves killed by the point the show is set.
@@illyrusemperor9278again, how does that have anything to do with the topic of conversation? not arguing against your points, but that's a different conversation to the one we're having.
"They raised an army and saved a continent" - 3 puny ships without horses and provisions - Yes, the battle of the local tavern will have sages and bards busy for the next 2000 years
Next season, Sauron gets a Middle Earth magical illness and decides to sell unique magical mithril rings to pay each of Middle Earth's top healers to make himself well. Sauron is actually a good guy that is a victim of circumstance and season two will catalogue his descent into the darkness. The 'real' Sauron actually is like Dread Pirate Roberts from 'Princess Bride' and Halbrand is just the next guy to take on the mantle. Season two will cover all this in excruciating detail.-- /s It wouldn't surprise me if the two 'writers' actually discussed a similar nonsensical plot for their abomination of a show.
The minute a big name show uses the "be like" or "is like" as a promotion, my first thought is: oh, this will be sht. They can't even sell it based on its own merits.
Halbrand: "You don't know how evil I have been..." Galadriel: "You can always achieve redemption..." Halbrand: "I'm Sauron." Galadriel: "Except that - you can't be forgiven for that!" The writers are so brain dead and insincere....
Annatar would have been perfect for the purpose of making something nuanced. Imagine Annatar showing up, the audience knowing its Sauron, and then the character giving the audience mixed messages: aka being charming as heck, helping elves left and right, but having the insidious background of the fact that you know who he is. This would have been awesome on screen! We would have seen the gradual turn of the Eregion elves towards evil which wouldve given us the "modern" nuance everyone wants. Instead the showrunners thought... Who's gonna fall for that? Lets have a human Sauron being a rando on a wreck, eventually coming to Eregion and telling Celebrimbor: have you tried to make alloys? Brilliant.
I’m not sure why they thought people who read the books want to be surprised. I don’t want to watch a movie of a book I’ve read so I can be surprised, I want to see the story I know on the screen. When I want to be surprised I watch a show where I haven’t read the books or where there aren’t any. Honestly I can only think of one movie based off a book where I went into it hoping they would change the ending and that’s because the last book in the series sucked big time. I don’t know why everything has to be suspenseful and mysterious with these people (well I assume it’s the Bad Robot influence). Plus the entire suspense thing only works with a first watching, if you want people to rewatch something and really invest in it mystery boxes are a terrible foundation.
It's like what Hitchcock said about a bomb under a table. The 5 minutes before it explodes, while the characters sit over it, is far more tense if you know the bomb is there. If two characters were talking at a table and just exploded for no apparent reason you'd be like, wha?
Matt Daemon Targaryn is proof you can have a character who you know is a piece of shit but just can't stay mad at and still _want_ to like despite the glaring problems.
I completely agree. I honestly would love to see HOW Annatar "seduced" or "conned" the elves. Starting off completely helpful (honestly doing good things to make their lives better with his knowledge), but ever so slowly becoming less helpful and ever so slowly sowing the seeds of distrust and destruction. However, these clowns have 1/1000000th the talent to actually write a character with subtlety and guile. And they know it! Thus, not going to do that. THAT would have been a great show to watch.
Instead of a poorly done mystery box. They could've made Sauron an Iago type character tricking and corrupting a noble and admirable Othello like Celebrimbor. Instead of relying on a mystery that is barely a mystery to sustain dramatic tension, they could have made it obvious Annatar/Halbrand was lying and evil, but the audience watches the inevitability of his success. It's great drama and underscores the tragedy of the creation of the rings. And when they ARE created, our heroes suffer for their naivety and now need to make up for it.
They didn't just give Lord of the Rings to the incompetent, they gave it to the incompetent and arrogant, thinking they could do better than the creator himself.
You repeatedly said, "The most evil person in middle earth." And according to what actually happened in RoP that would 100% be Galadriel. Sauron was the most honest and caring person in the ENTIRE SHOW. He actually TRIED to be good but was dragged down and demonized by the harpy Galadriel.
@@Goodbutevilgenius Either way the nicest characters are the dark lord and the orc leader. All the protagonists are manipulative narcissists who do horrible things like abandon their kin to die at the slightest inconvenience, break oaths the moment they are out of sight, and bully a man, who is trying to do the right thing, back to the dark side.
After all these years of daydreaming about all the things I would say to him at his one and only chance for redemption, like you're strong enough to go back to Aman for a few ages you can handle it, or go get rid of or reform all the orcs to prove yourself, and all we got was "You are Sauron!" "I will never be your queen!" "You will never be redeemed!" 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
The "My Girl Galadriel" dance is the absolute cringiest thing in the whole entertainment industry. It even beat out the Island Boys and that's fucking TOUGH.
I was thinking the exact same thing. It's like watching a trainwreck, I actually went back in the video to watch it again. Imagine waking up every day know that's on the internet for all time and people are putting it in their videos every day.
Bottom line: that dancing podcaster never watched an episode when each one was released. As quoted by herself during a stream. Like I said, at least one superfan of Tolkien in the UK would come from the West Midlands NOT all from London.
"They thought it was stupid, that no one would have fallen for Annatar's plan" Proceeds to write the entire season arc of Galadriel as being stupid and falling for Sauron's plan
I went to Comic-Con and I got to see the rings of power cast on stage and it was pretty interesting because nobody had any clue about who JRR Tolkien was or his experiences in life and anything he ever wrote or created was pretty much zero to them I felt that nobody really understood the whole concept of adventure and mystery and the nuances of life I mean it was kind of depressing that's why I enjoy your show so much because you cut right down to the meat and potatoes and everything you're saying is 100% accurate I hope and wish that the people were actually creating this show actually follow you and maybe make amends somehow
And then compare it to the extra material from the LotR movies where they said that there were copies of the book laying around till the last day of the shooting and PJ said: "ok, let's treat it like it's a real story that really happened and we're making a documentary of it".
The part where they talk about how Galadriel and Sauron being attracted because of each other's power is "much bigger and more cosmic" than romance tells me two, rather worrying things about the showrunners: 1. They miss the entire point of Tolkien's work: in which true love and honor are more powerful than rings and thrones and even death itself; and 2. They sort of confirm that there is a subset of our society who regard real, honest love as trivial, and pairings and friendship as only a means to consolidate power. Explains a lot, really.
to your second point, this subset is the majority of people in positions of power and influence. it always jhas been like this. in medieval times the kings and counts etc didnt marry for love. they killed their own brothers to get more land. its just becoming more visible now because these people have twitter accounts.
To be fair, love as a reason to form a relationship is a modern conception. In the quite recent past all relationships formed because of interest in wealth,status and such, not love.
@@kostasbiker9302 For the upper class, no doubt it was. Amongst those who had no wealth, or status, love and desire were always a thing, and that's why for a very long time were considered not just trivial, but demeaning and uncouth.
It is interesting that in Rings of Power Mithril is too rare to make three rings out of it without making an alloy, but Bilbo's mail shirt, as well as numerous other items including the DOORS TO MORIA, were made of it.
Changing a plot point from a book in order to avoid spoilers because of the reader already knowing what happens is one of the most rage inducing actions that an adapter can take. There ought to be a law.
The thing with the showrunners talking about Walter White or Tony Soprano is that they are just namedropping those characters to try and add value to their own creation by comparing their crappy characters to much better ones. It's actually quite sad.
It's also pretty disgusting that the only thing these people have as reference points for storytelling is 'You know these other characters from tv? Yeah that.' There's no lived experience, no real life reflection or personal, individual thought. It's all just whatever mass-processed garbage has made money for the last 5 years, because that's literally all the sheltered writers have.
@@axiss5840 Definitely, I'm sure their documentation and reference pre-prod process was just "Which shows we find cool and how could we do exactly the same with ours?"
@@CloudyNebula They've definitely set out to create a show with complex, morally ambiguous characters because Bezos wanted something as big as Game of Thrones, but these tools failed at it in a phenomenal way. I love the Sopranos, Madmen, Dostoyevsky... basically shows and literally fiction where no one is a hero, but I also love Tolkien, and to brag about bringing "moral ambiguity" into a christian story where good and evil are clearly defined for important reasons, is beyond my comprehension, but then I don't have a mind of an exploitative, money-grabbing asshole. Even if this show was supposed to just mimic Game of Thrones, it would still be bad because they failed writing morally ambiguous, believable characters. All they managed to write were a clumsy puppet of a "strong fem trope," nonsensical "diversity," and out of place "representation."
This just further proves what we already knew only too well; they know nothing about Tolkien's work and they know nothing about writing a TV show. What a great choice it was, then, to put them in charge of a TV show based on Tolkien's work!
They know nothing about Tolkien, but they have their Twitter clout. That’s more important these days, so that the studios can just smear detractors with the usual labels. I’m sure that’s how these two got the gig.
@@thatfirstoneLook at the show. Do you see $700 million there? Maybe on the silkscreened armor? The crowd scenes with seven or eight extras? Yeah me neither.
Tolkien was a master of language. Upon going back and reading Lord of the Rings, I learned more and more about just how perfectly every sentence and interaction is crafted. It would be impossible for almost anyone to compete on his level, so it seems like these people didn't bother to try.
Believe me, I would absolutely NOT try. I recognize Tolkien's greatness and would NEVER attempt to get within a mile of him. But what I mean by that is that I would never ever remotely consider trying to tackle LotR. I have to admit, I admire Peter Jackson's guts in this regard.
The quote from galadriel about knowing Sauron's mind is a lot more straight forward than that, Tolkien's dialogue usually is unless he's writing poetry. "even as we stand here I percieve the dark lord and know his mind, and ever he seeks to see me and my thought." she is wearing Nenya, the ring of Adamant, we know that the wielder of the one ring can control the wearers of the other rings, including the three, indeed Frodo asks her in that same scene whether he could read the minds of other ring bearers, and she tells him he could, if he had a will strong enough to dominate others. she also reveals she knows exactly how many times he's worn the one ring since he found out what it was, indcating she's already read something of his! mind, due to her connection with nenya. Again, Tolkien explains all of this very straightforwardly in Galadriel's dialogue, only a complete nincompoop would get this wrong. Then again only a complete nincompoop would think Bilbo was emperor of the shire throwing giant parties because of the ring's influence either!
If you want a very faithful adaptation which isn't quite as long, check out the bbc radio play from 1981, great casting, original dialogue, and awesome music. It even has Ian Holm as Frodo, who played Bilbo in the Peter Jackson films.
@@darktenor4967 That's from the books. Book II Chapter 7: The Mirror of Galadriel. Why would they need a "more faithful adaptation". More faithful than Tolkien's own writing? Edit: The only thing added was her knowing how many times he'd worn the Ring.
I think it's more talking about her own abilities. She can see inside his mind, but keep hers closed to him. He's not in possession of the One at that time. She goes on right after that in the book, saying she knows his plans for the Elves. It's after that that Frodo sees the ring and she explains it to him.
The showrunners are right about one thing, when they say, "the story Tolkien never wrote". Yeah, he would have never written CRAP. Let the shaming and the mockery continue because the ACTIVISTS are pissed, the incentive to destroy Tolkien is clear because the Tolkien fandom broke them.
@H R Quite right. There is a concerted corporate effort to destroy and rewrite every franchise people found heroic. Every single one, to twist it out of shape and quite possibly to destroy every single one. They want our contemporary myths destroyed, our heroes ruined.
I still remember when Amazon's Tolkien professor tried to school someone online when a commentator questioned her how, if Tolkien would write something like this, it was contradictory in many places and the professor insisted they actually read Tolkien and some of THEIR own articles on Tolkien...the commentator was Carl F Hostetter and his reply/comeback was that he was VERY familiar with ALL of Tolkien works - inc. all her recommendations - and left her speechless because he wrote it in a reply that J.R.R Tolkien would. The fandom aren't just fanboy's - they are linguistic, language and history academics; I don't think they appreciate Amazon making something that mocks their learning.
I find it horribly interesting how the writers, with a notepad, a few team meetings over donuts and a couple of years, believed they could create something better than one intelligent man’s life work.
The way they took that quote from Galadriel about knowing Sauron illustrates so much about how little they understand Tolkien's works. In fact, this whole story would not have been possible if they did not gut Galadriel's central characteristics, which she already had by the Second Age, including her wisdom and her piercing insight into people (so that she could see right through Sauron, Fëanor, Boromir, and others, as well as know how to communicate with Dwarves). This strong character had to be thoroughly weakened for this story to play out as they wrote it. It fits with the general habit of the writers to make characters look smart/competent only by making others incompetent.
I am still shocked that they felt entitled to complete destroy Galadriel's character. The arrogance, the hubris of these people never ceases to amaze me.
Because writing challenges for strong and smart character is hard. So they nerfed her to the ground. But then they found out that they kinda cannot work with that character, because she doesn’t have an ability to solve any problems but those requiring brute force, and started throwing deus ex machina solutions for her other problems at her.
I think their bizarre interpretation of- and extrapolation from- that one line demonstrates something far worse than a mere lack of understanding of Tolkien. To me, it sounds like they already had their own dumb fanfic in mind and only went back to the source material to find any random sentence or snippet of text that could be twisted to justify their *ahem "vision".
*[**10:40**-**11:22**:]* _"But I've said in my reviews that so many of the supposed 'heroes' in_ Rings of Power _are evil, and the show doesn't seem to realize it, and it seems like the showrunners genuinely don't understand what Evil is, themselves. Tolkien's world was black-and-white; there was Good and Evil, and they were battling. But not this one. Not in_ Rings of Power. _[...] Sauron was evil. And yes: you can have good people who fall to Evil, but _*_they are good or evil;_*_ there is no 'anti-heroes'."_ That sums it up, and it resolves a problem plaguing modern writers that I've tackled with great force and perseverance: moral ambiguity in place of genuine discernment and complexity. If there is an objective moral truth, then one can't say that "we are all the devil, deep within even the purest Soul," since it is in one's choices and one's actions that one either is a Hero or a Villain, with no in-between to mediate the conflict. Neither, then, can we allow for the absurd pretension that the _cause_ for one's disgust in witnessing an evil is projection _in all cases._ Some of us project, but in a morally objective universe an act is either good or evil by default, regardless of perception, and the wise are those who see the good for what it is, the evil for its nature, and they feel approval or disgust accordingly, depending on their own degree of innocence or guilt. Yet none of this I mean to push as though it were the _only_ way of writing nor the _only_ way of reading. _Breaking Bad,_ _Better Call Saul,_ and _BoJack Horseman_ all have anti-heroes, as do _Death Note,_ _Evangelion,_ _Attack on Titan,_ _Cowboy BeBop,_ and _Ghost in the Shell._ However, there's a reason that the _Star Wars_ franchise suffered in the hands of Rian Johnson, just as Marvel suffered in the hands of Gao and _Rings of Power_ suffered on the fingers of McKay and Payne. It is because a writer who excels in working on a show like _Breaking Bad_ or _Rick and Morty_ or a modern _Star Trek_ film is not at all equipped to tell _mythology._ An _archetype_ is something sacred, not deserving of a deconstruction by the modern intellect, and trying to reduce the blacks and whites to grey is alien to the entire work not only of directors, novelists, and comic book developers, but also that of Carl Jung himself, the founder of projection as a psychoanalytic concept. Jung, like Tolkien, saw that Good and Evil worked in very clear and certain ways; he only sought to mediate between them. Tolkien did not seek that sort of mediation to the same extent, and neither of these men sought to _ignore_ that these were opposites by making them ambiguous. That is the attitude of privilege and cowardice, not courage and adversity. 🧙♂ *[({R.G.)}]* ⚔
After listening to just the bare minimum of the interview, I think all I can say to sum up my feelings on the situation is just disappointment. They're so unsure of themselves and it shows in their writing and in these interviews, but put on a pretentious act to try and hide their own insecurities and it's just...sad. They're are inexperienced and unqualified, they know it, and they're doing the whole 'fake it till you make it' thing and...it isn't going to work when you're dealing with an IP as large as Tolkien's. Season 2 isn't even going to be worth watching out of morbid curiosity.
yeah, well, they learned from the best of the best in "fake it till you make it"...jar jar abrams himself. the dude's a hack as are his little minions.
Yea this season got a lot of attention for obvious reasons, but it's time to put this sick horse down. We all need to stop hate watching for season 2; I just really want this show to stop raping Tolkien. We need to send a message
@@yomamma.ismydaddy216 Funnily enough, I don't think Amazon has publicly released how many people watched it. You have Jennifer Salke claiming that the show is at around 100M customers having watched it, which I refuse to believe since if that was the case, I'm pretty sure I'd have heard people say a lot more about it. At the very least, it'd have been blowing up everywhere on social media but I don't think that really happened, did it? For all we know, Amazon probably could've racked up 1M views at max and are trying to fool everyone into thinking they got more than they already did.
The biggest lie of the podcast was " it was even better the second time I watched it," it is a masterpiece . This show will be taught in all the film schools on what not to do when a studio gives you a multi million dollar franchise. Disney has already gone that as well with Star Wars.
Im in film school right now and my instructors already are teaching how the RoP is a great example of how not to write stories OR adapt existing work. Literally its being taught as we speak and people who work in the industry truly hate it…which is rare because we are also taught to work on things we have no interest in as thats most the work in this industry…a damn paycheck at the end of the day
I just shake my head. It's like they're on acid and spouting about how they can taste light and smell sounds... but they're really just two guys high on acid who can't bring the experience to a TV series.
Thanks a lot, Disparu, for this important video and all the good work done. You have pointed out a very important element that many of us seem to have missed from the beginning. I was aware of the fact that the showrunners did not know what they were doing most of the time, and that they were just being evil when they sometimes did. In fact it is even more serious. Those people have literally no grasp on reality, don't claim to have any and are ok with it. They just hate the very core of Tolkien's work for what it is (ie its moral values), and enjoy taking bits here and there to subvert it and ultimately destroy the whole. All it took was this nonsense of "letting people make their own story" or "truth does not exist, there are just subjective points of view". Add a good measure of stellar incompetence and there you go. The whole affair has got it all : hubris, malevolence and stupidity, which we already knew, but also objective insanity.
Listening to the podcast answers, I can't help but be reminded of the GoT showrunners, who seemed to prioritise coming up with a twist ending no one could predict over making an ending that made a lick of sense and tied the various themes and plotlines together. If you're adapting something and your main concern is ensuring that fans don't recognise the story, you're doing it wrong.
tbf the twist ending was all Georges work, it doesnt pay off in the show because theyd not laid the groundwork for it over that last season, let alone moving that way in earlier seasons
@@awavey I don't know who is responsible for writing the ending, but I agree that the execution was completely bungled and rushed. If they were going to have Daenerys turn into a ruthless, fanatical pragmatist, I think the obvious place to start showing those changes would have been at the end of her stint in Slaver's bay, when her idealistic attempt to abolish slavery completely fell apart. I think you could easily justify her learning the "lesson" that she was just too kind and gentle with the people of slaver's bay and that she has to be more ruthless to create her utopia.
Preach!!! 🙌 Long time fans don't WANT surprises - they bought the name and the brand for a goddamn reason!!! Doing the whole "subverting expectations" bit is getting old. I hope they realize that!
You’re being far too kind. Really it reminds me of pretty little liars. (Edit: when Reddit leaked the script they had to “outsmart” the viewer and in the end insulted the entire audiences intelligence)
They really should just shut-up. They made a very bad fan-fiction depiction of what professor Tolkien wrote. They don't understand Tolkien and they have no idea what the world of Lord of the Rings is. The laughable thing is that they are saying "Season 2 will be more canonical." to bring people to watch it thinking we will fall for it LOL.
The part about them going on about the forging of rings, saying people wouldn't just accept help off a stranger. That's exactly what happened and that's kind of the point. Celebrimbor took Annatar in because he was arrognat and wanted to be the best elven smith and ultimately lead to his downfall. Pride xomes before a fall anyone? Galadrial was immediately suspicious of Annatar so sent him away, not kind of had the hots for him and some silly mind connection.
In The Silmarillion, Tolkien describes the Sauron of the First Age as "a sorcerer of dreadful power, master of shadows and of phantoms," he goes on to say that he was the "lord of werewolves" and his "dominion was torment." - Yeah, really anti hero . . . So canonical . . .
Nonono guys, showrunners explained why /:OO Quotes from ep 8 (same meaning different lines, i can't remember): Halbrand: "But Gal, we're fwiends" Galadriel: "You're friends with Morgoth, you asshole" Halbrand: "Bro, when Morgoth got defeated i was finally free and saw the light of the One again, how could you say that?!!" Ah yes, light of the One: Eru Iluvatar, right? No. Never ever even once in the whole season is Eru mentioned directly, they really did take to heart what happened to Fëanor. Nontheless, the original Halbrand quote said something like: "It was like a closing fist finally let go of my neck" or some shit like that. You see guys? Sauron didn't *actually* want to torture all those people and cause as much pain as he did, it was Morgoth that made him do it!! He's a victim of all the wicked things Morgoth did to him, don't you feel bad? Just like the drugs made Walter White sell drugs, right? Yeah this show has me dead. And by the way, Mairon willingly joined Melkor, and for all we know, he didn't regret it. Therefore no, showrunners, Sauron has been evil from the moment he stepped into Arda (or at least on his way to become evil) and wasn't no aNtI hErO.
@@adventussaxonum448 speaking of mouth of Sauron there is a nice deep well done video of mouth of Sauron. It’s 40 minutes long by Red Book. You’ll be amazed. This is Tolkien’s real work at its finest. And the true fans tend to lean towards being academic in nature which is great because Tolkiens works were always a piece of fine academic literature as well as a fine art showing how spiritually dialed in he was to the world and it’s true histories. He had many dreams regarding the flood of Atlantis which the Numenorean Adûnaic word for their land is Atalante/and Talat❤ depending on who’s speaking really and when and after which events took place. The elves call that land Westernesse!❤
I've rewatched Disparus rant which came out a week before RoP. He was calm and cautious in presenting his arguments with just a hint of sarcasm. After the show released, he descended into complete madness and it was god damn beautiful. Can't wait for the second season.
Ow Mah Gowd , Rings of Power is sooooo Ah Maze Ing. That black elf is so freaking Ah Maze Ing . That one Orc is sooo freakin’ scary, I was like … Ow Mah Gawd, what the actual heck. I’ve watched the first season 7 times. It’s better than the Hobbit, it’s better that PJ’s trilogy, it’s better than the books. It’s like soooooo Ah Maze Ing , oh ,,, OH ! I’m I’m I’m oh oh oh !
21:25 - That's a major difference from the books. In the books, Frodo, for example, wouldn't lie to his friends. In the books it isn't "get the great evil by any means necessary". It's "do good and greater good will come of it".
When they said they went back to the books they were referring to the accounting books trying to figure out how they spent 95% of the budget on coke and only had a week left to write the script for the entire season.
They forgot to mention how when Gollum got the ring he hired a full circus and threw the most hugest party ever. Radagast the Lion tamer was there. He hired The Rolling Stones to play music. Elrond the Wise brought the finest weed. There was even a dwarf orgy at the after party.
I'm still not entirely sure what evil things Sauron did to "call" to Galadriel to jump off the boat other than making some leaves go black.... Am I missing something?
They repeatedly talked about cosmic influence etc. They seem to be implying that Sauron can call to her from across the world. They said "everything she did" could be due to it, which would include her rampant hunting him for centuries before, including all of the snow stuff we see at the start of episode 1.
Oh my god, it's like listening to some GCSE drama students discussing their group project with their examiner. The enthusiasm is there, but no experience -story-telling or real-world, the plot is cobbled together out of soap opera scenes, and they change their answers about the basic mechanics of the world to try and impress the examiner. THESE ARE NOT THE HANDS UNTO WHICH YOU PLACE A BILLION DOLLAR PROJECT AND A CULTURAL CORNERSTONE.
At least we can be thankful they didn't go halfway. If this were even remotely comparable to the Peter Jackson productions we would have a lot of people on the fence. Thank goodness they went all-in on being bad at their job and produced utter garbage instead.
honestly, the silver lining here is because this show was so fundamentally bad and so utterly forgettable, i don't think it'll have any lasting impact on the franchise. There will never be any real debate about where this ranks within the canon, it'll just be referenced in the occasional dumb joke on a message board
Doctor Who, Star Wars, Marvel, Scooby Doo, Rings Of Power... the list goes on. Different titles, same shit being done to them, more or less. And there's plenty more one could add... ✌🐸
Hypothetically, such a friendship could have existed; however, it would have been in Valinor, before Morgoth kicked things off. Not saying it did happen, and the dynamic between them would've been far different than what we saw if it had. (Come to think of it, that probably would have been a better angle for RoP to try...)
@@Wraithspartan To me, Sauron is the embodiment of evil that came after Morgoth. That's how I know this character - the way Tolkien wrote him, not some good guy in some other hypothetical universe. That's why I cannot picture them being friends; it's nonsense.
@@SilhouetteSE You thought that because that's the majority of his character. There is a "pre-Morgoth" time (seen in the bullying scene) where both existed in Valinor. But the little we have of him pre-Morgoth is pretty much that he existed, was an assistant smith to Aule, and fell in with Morgoth (though some material describes his motivations, and none of it fits RoP). His status as "embodiment of evil" constitutes most of who he is. I was simply noting that they could have explored their professed angle in a way compatible with Tolkien's actual work, and it would likely have been a somewhat better approach. In the same manner that adjusting one's glidepath would result in a "better" crash landing, of course; but there it is. It would have required better writing, and probably would have to displace the bullying scene... So nothing of value would've been lost.
From the podcast: "I cannot believe Hellbrand had me fooled the whole time! Sauron was hiding in plain sight!" I actually said aloud: "What?!" Surely she's being sarcastic.
The paycheck for hosting the official ROP podcast from amazon no doubt has certain scripted demands from the actress playing the character of the host....
You're a braver man than me to go to their podcast and listen for that after watching what they wrote. either that or you just like pain and suffering and...I feel for you if so
The quote from Galadriel came when she was wearing (and had been for thousands of years) a Ring. She *also* commented that Frodo was able to sense her thoughts better than most people *due to him being the Ringbearer*. Are they trying to say that Frodo was "intimate" with Galadriel? What a bunch of malarky.
Of course you can. You as author has knowledge over thinks the character doesn't have. But if the character can induct that knowledge through small hints he can be more intelligent than yourself. Like Sherlock Holmes is written to be more intelligent.
Tolkien wrote a complex character in Gollum, that had some internal struggle in him. Sauron was something else entirely. Gandalf or Elrond never said let's have a peace treaty with Sauron. Perhaps if we give him his ring back he'll be so grateful we can all live in peace...
@@tristanboss7319 hmm actually in this context Melkor/Morgoth was Satan, and Sauron was a more like a corrupted angel (but yes no good in Sauron since his corruption.)
at first everyone was complaining and i was defending the show. it was all about color of elves ppl talk about. but i assumed amazon probably hired the best writers and biggest funs money can buy. they have probably read all the letters tolien written. and the first couple of episodes run . there was still hope in me. wizard was annatar, halbrad was a human king to recieve a ring. there was something wrong with galadriel but her time in numenor will fix it. they were just telling story . then it started all go wrong :D they made a complete shitsstorm.quotes from gandalf, gilgalad is an ass, mithrill story, a fucking balrog 3000 years early. amazon should fire all cast and writers , apoligy and rerun first season.
So, Sauron wanted to get out of the Sauron life and be a good guy (and hadn't yet turned back to evil due to Galadriel's spurning) yet we're also supposed to believe he has this master plan to create the rings and pour his will and malice into them before being outed as Sauron? The show wants sympathetic good boy Sauron but also master evil plan Sauron. Why am i to fear the 3 elven rings at this point
"And into this Ring he poured his cruelty, his malice and his will to dominate all life." - Good boi Sauron's ring doesn't amount to much in this series.
I have, very recently, finished Silmarillion for the first time. NOTHING that happens in this show is close to what happened among the stories told in the Silmarillion. Galadriel never was a main character and she barely got mentioned. Furthermore, the reason why Numenor sunk is because the King bought what Sauron was whispering him and this happened over time. Sauron fed on his pride and manipulated him to assault Valinor. When Eru/Iluvatar sunk Numenor Sauron's body sunk with it but because he is a Maiar and immortal his spirit endured. He lost the ability of shapeshifting which they never explored in Rings of Power since then he had been in the form everyone saw in the Lord of the Rings. I mean for fuck's sake they missed the opportunity, somehow, to show his shapeshifting capabilities. Also, naming Sauron Halbrand is just stupid. People KNEW who he was he gained their trust through his ability to manipulate people with words. Galadriel and Sauron never came in contact. This whole show it is a very bad abridged fanfic fan-made spin-off. Galadriel's character in the few lines she appeared in is basically traits shared by all Eldars
Watching a story about Titanic while knowing the whole time the ship is going to sink is one thing. Continuing to watch a story that probably won’t be finished because it sucks has an entirely different kind of tragic to it.
The showrunners are doing damage control. They're encouraging people to fill in the blanks of their Swiss cheese of a show so they forget how bad it really was, and hope to sell this extra homework as the show being "engaging". They're essentially trying to bait the viewers into writing the show for them. That way the viewers will remember the show based on their imagination rather than based on what it actually was.
the show is already written by tolkien. someone tell them there are several books and letters about the show they need to read. no need of viewer opinion.
Thanks for another great video ! The two show runners remind me of the two swindlers in H.C. Andersen's story "The Emperor's New Clothes". Posing as weavers, they offer to supply the Emperor with magnificent clothes that are invisible to those who are stupid or incompetent. In the Rings of Power, it's the story that is invisible - there is just nothing there. And now the show runners have been revealed to be nothing but charlatans and amateurs.
Straight up I never watched one episode of this show for the specific purpose that they intended to ruin the lore. I only know how the show goes because of Disparu. The more I learn, the more I'm happy I never watched it.
"Who's gonna fall for some hot god like being with gifts that can help you with your problems" Yes. Who would fall for an attractive influencer type being pushing a product that can self help or be of use for quick and immediate access/gratification? Never heard of that before. Figures that have done/said bad things, are defended by a majority of people, and still receive support/good publicity, because people are willing to make excuses for them when they're attractive and playing into what they want to hear? Nah, not very applicable or believable nowadays.
Him saying that made me think that those two doofs are jealous of handsome men, lol. Between that quote and the fact their most conventional good looking leading man type cast member is playing the epitome of evil.
There's a weird level of subtext in the interviews that really paints JD and McCay as Sauron... "Galadriel doesn't have agency because Halbrand beckons to her question mark" Galadriel has no agency because these two wrote her to fit their narrative, rather than what TOLKIEN did... "It doesn't make sense that Sauron would come as Annatar, because that's too obvious." Too obvious in a time of Valar that a new Valar should suddenly show up? "We wanted it to be a surprise for those who have read the books." But you WANTED THE FUCKING NAME!
and they said in another interview (if i remember correctly) that it wasn't supposed to be a surprise. (I think as a defense when people said how bloody obvious it was).
Remember folks... These writers spent *TEN YEARS* pitching movie after movie after show after movie after show after movie... and not a single script was ever used, they have literally no accredations to their names... JJ ABRAHMS got them this job. These are the people who wanted to hide things in mystery boxes because they thought that 'knowing the story ahead of time as a reader of the books was bad.'
The showunners saying they deviated from canon in season 1 in order to follow canon in season 2 makes no sense. Imagine this: you are tasked to bake a black forest cake and given a recipe to follow. If you followed the recipe, you'd end up with a black forest cake. If you went 'screw the recipe!' and chuck whatever ingredient caught your eye in the pantry, you'd end up with an unsalvageable mess. Now, suppose you went and tried making the cake using the latter method but changed your mind halfway and suddenly decided to start following the recipe. Would adding the correct ingredients into your existing batter fix your batter and result in a black forest cake? Of course not! You'd have to throw away your current batter and start over in order to make a black forest cake. Rings of Power is the metaphorical screwed up black forest cake. Even if the showrunners were to start following Tolkien's canon, aka the recipe for the story, from this point onwards this show cannot be salvaged. Only an apology to the entire Tolkien fandom and a total reboot of the series can save Rings of Power.
They are the products of Abrams and the mystery box. If they wrote the characters, then they should know the motivations of their creations. The way they are telling it, we're left with dolls performing actions and we, the audience, have to make up the story around the actions. With Lindelhof working on the next Star Wars set of movies, we can expect to see more of it. As an audience member, l shouldn't have to work so hard to like (or not like) something. That is what infuriated me the most about Prometheus. And now that writing is still showing up in current media. I'm out.
The great thing about the original six Star Wars movies is that you have the option of either just viewing the movies and appreciate them as a complete body of work on their own, or, if you were curious about certain background character or locales or a throwaway line meant to further the plot, you could read about it in a novel or comic in the EU. Disney Star Wars REQUIRED you to do homework to fill in details of their shitty sequel trilogy which was by design. Why was the Galactic Republic’s Capitol on Hosian Prime and not on Coruscant? Read this book! What was the announcement of Palpatine’s return? Play Fortnite! It’s just an excuse for Disney to sell more crap.
I like how the showrunners hide behind Tolkien in defending their poor story choices, such as saying "a Tolkienian chance meeting" re Galadriel happening to bump into Sauron. Also- They say they didn't call him Annatar because they wanted to hide his identity. First, I will point out that GoT was also based on books, yet lots of people were still shocked when Ned Stark died. Second, the showrunners' use of cliches and modern touches, shall we say, made things predictable anyway. Even before that particular spoiler came out, Gary/Nerdrotic (and I'm sure others) took a look at the early trailers and said "That guy's a handsome white man, he must be Sauron." Might as well have just called him Annatar, lol!
Nearly at 100k subs!!! Totally deserved captain. Barry Norman would be very impressed with your prose. Your breakdowns of tv stuff is so on point with subtle whimsy. You stand out from a crowded crowd
Honestly I have seen people defend this show by saying that it's bringing in new fans who will read the books and such. All I can think when hearing that argument is "Well that's depressing isn't it? I mean those poor bastards are gonna be confused out of their minds when they do read the books and see that events and characters are completely different." If anything they're gonna try reading the books and after seeing that everything is so different they're probably gonna check out. I mean hopefully they'll forever forget about the show and stick with the books but I don't find that likely.
My God! They actually thought they could write Tolkien's story better than him. And then, after the giant turd they ended up creating, instead of flashing it down the toilet and hide were no one could find them,they are actually bragging about...🤯
The fact that they don't know what motivates their own characters (and it shows in examples beyond what they mention, such as in Isildur's motivations changing two more times over the course of four episodes) really shows that they have tried to take the mystery box approach to storytelling to the extreme. Not only are characters' identities mystery boxes; their actual characterization is a mystery box. "What motivates our characters? You decide. We can't be bothered to write it, even though we are paid a lot of money to do it and have been entrusted with this massive production."
Ya it's crazy how bad they are at all facets of storytelling. Like Galadriel is motivated by her brother's death. Ok, but why is she so driven by the death of a loved one in a war? All the elves lost friends and family in the war. Elrond, Gil-Galad, Celebrimbor... there's no reason why she should be suffering more than them. And they start the exposition in episode one by saying "the shadow spread across the world and the orcs multiplied and spread across middle earth. Then immediately change to "no one has seen any sign of sauron or his orcs in centuries." Like wtf. What motivates isildur's sister to want to stop the Numenoreans from sailing to middle earth? Who knows. It's just a train wreck from start to finish, and I'm amused and a little annoyed at all these people pretending it's an amazing show just because they've picked a side in the culture war and dug themselves in. If the nerd fanbase hadn't angrily rejected it, they would feel free to give honest criticism. I just can't believe that professional reviewers wouldn't acknowledge the terrible writing if they didn't feel obligated to defend 'their side' in this stupid culture war. Honestly the culture war is boring and I want to stay out of it l, but how can we when they're raping our childhood?
my brain hurts just trying to comprehend how theyve developed this show like this, theyre inexperienced sure, but was there no-one on this production asking those questions like What does motivate our characters?, or which characters are we meant to be playing ? I mean they literally said the female Frodo character they gave to the actress was a blank sheet, so she's developed it...by pretending to be a female Frodo, but this is insanity isnt it ?
Isildurs character had a motivation? He seemed entirely unmotivated. Couldnt even hold down a job for 2 hours. And then he gets another job handed to him by daddy because he screwed up, blew up a boat and lied about it. His character has 0 agency or purpose.
Imagine if the people who filmed the 2021 Dune thought, "Hey, everyone knows Dr Yueh is the traitor... what if, in OUR movie, we make Thufir the traitor! It'll keep things fresh for longtime Dune fans as well as new viewers! Genius!" Then proceeded to destroy Dune... No, instead they stuck with the actual story and made a beautiful movie. These people are so incompetent its like they're caricatures. That in itself isn't remarkable, it's the billion dollars that makes it remarkable. How did these morons get vetted for this?
The good news is whatever mud they try to cast on Tolkien’s work, the original story stands whole and unblemished, and the fans did not cave to Hollywoke.
Honestly, I am impressed! Every time I think that they can't be any more incompetent, then this, they just have to keep proving me wrong. I Would definetly given Darwin award for writers, if there was one.
@@Grauer1510 That's just the German name for the Golden Raspberry Award aka. Razzie which gets its name from the expression "to blow a raspberry" or to make a fart-like sound with your mouth. They are awarded the day before the Oscars.
If he didn’t know he was playing SAURON until after the second episode was filmed I think a salary renegotiation should be in order. I can’t believe this.
Have these guys ever studied classic litteratur or story writing on a higher level? They got the "Titanic" wrong They got "Paradise Lost" wrong They got "Breaking bad" wrong They got "the Sopranos" wrong They got "MacBeth" wrong *THEY DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND SHAKESPEARE!* HOW DUFFED CAN YA BE! Hell they will probably get "Winnie-the-Pooh" wrong Have they the slightest clue what they are talking about? This is like watching a Carnival Bizarre married to "One Flew over the Cuckoo's nest" in a Lovecraftien nightmare
I think we all misunderstand the genius of those showrunners. They managed quantic writing guys. We should all be ashamed of ourselves for criticizing them and try to apprehend their cosmic talent.
Would love to see the showrunners deconstruct the show and its narrative elements with someone who isn't a complete shill. Diehard Tolkien lore masters would be ripping them a new A-hole.
Lord of the the Rings: The Rings of Power might be over, but when I found this podcast I had to cover it. It took a lot longer than I had expected to organise and I think I could have spoken for several hours if I had actually covered all of the points I wanted to make on it to their full effect. But what do you think about what the showrunners said, do you think Halbrand will make a good Walter White anti-hero in season 2? Did the one ring make Bilbo throw a massive party? Let me know your thoughts down below and as always, thanks for watching :)
Halbrand is a fantastic sympathetic protagonist, and I am 100% on his side. He just wanted to leave his dark past behind and Karendriel shoved him headlong into evil, then kicked him when he asked for some affection.
I really don't care what happens in season 2. Cancelled all my streaming subscriptions around episode 2 of ROP. Fed up with all the woke crap. Was watching lock & key on Netflix which wasn't half bad, but went full woke in season 2. I have much fun watching reviews and especially yours. The sarcasm is really great lol!
I fell asleep before she got on the boat episode 1
How dense can these Podcasters be? Halbrand practically wore a sticker that read- "Hello: My name is Sauron"
i think they know as much about Breaking Bad as they do about Tolkien if they honestly believe that's even possible.... they've already ruined the possibility already but hope the audience is too stupid to notice....
The fans: “Where’s Celeborn?”
RoP writers: “he’s missing”
The fans: “How did he go missing?”
RoP: “It’s a mystery”
The fans: “When did he go missing?”
RoP: “it’s a mystery”
The fans: “Why has he gone missing?”
RoP: “ to ship Galadriel and Sauron, duh”
The fans: *facepalms*
Remember that these show runners claim to be “faithful” to Tolkien, sexual tension between Galadriel and Sauron is the exact kind of fan fiction he would hate most
Remember when they initially were going to have an “intimacy coordinator” and the fans revolted? They were 100% gonna go there
@@AbsentMinded619 I wish they had, it would have been hilarious. If you're gonna dig up Tolkien's corpse and violate him you might as well go all the way.
for real im glad i didnt watch that crap....the thought of these 2 having that kind of tension makes me physically unwell.....and im not even kidding or saying it to bring a point im really not feeling good thinking about it
Imagine how angry Tolkien would be at the even hint they were meant to be shipped *girlie giggle* ugh 😩 I think I'm glad he's dead. But I'm also wondering how his family feel for selling out so grossly. Oopsie.
@@rosiecatbandit Christopher would have been furious, but the grandchildren only seem to care about the money. The vibe I get from Simon Tolkien (who's a 'consultant' on RoP) is a deep resentment towards his father for defending JRR's legacy and a positive delight in seeing it crapped all over. Plus he lives in CA and is an unsuccessful writer so ...
They are privileged, eliteest, cliched ridden adult children. Smart at manipulation and knowing how to hangout in Hollywood, but desperately out of touch with reality and completely ignorant of anything outside their bubble. So your typical showrunner these days.
When Tolkien wrote LOTR, he said he used his personal experience to write his stories especially Samwise Gamgee.
I motion that we call these types shadowrunners because when they try to 'ad' ( showrunner+ad = shadowrunner) anything of their own they are clearly in a place that cannot see the light ( of the source material )
@@rildsilverlok Ive got a better idea. These showrunners insist on inserting themSELVES into their show, that means theyre inserting their "*I*" .
When you insert an 'I' in showrunner, you get "showruiner"
yeah the worlds elite believe themselves to be smart, they aren't and its how we got here and also why nearly all of the hollywood studios are in billions of debt
@@afg9104 That just works to show the difference of these vapid, shallow hollyweirdos compared to the great Tolkien.
They are not creators, the are cut and paste artists; they just steal from other shows and films and paste them into their shows; the best lines are stolen from other shows
You spelled 'piss artists' wrong :)
Collage is a legitimate artform. What these two clowns are doing is downstream from a magpie.
Disney does that with Star Wars, rather than stealing lines from other shows though, they steal stories from the Legends material they said they were tossing. And they change it and work it into their warped, agenda driven version of Star Wars, thereby ruining what would otherwise be good material. You guys ever wonder why you're seeing such a consistent pattern of behavior across so many different franchises under the control of so many different corporations? How can you have that many different companies, and that many different properties, but the exact same approach to them is being taken, with the exact same political motivations...? and if you think the culture war isn't a political consideration, think again... food for thought. ✌🐸
@@harbl99 ... lol fair point. What they've done is an insult to collage.
Reminds me of 1984 when it talks about songs being written with a kaleidoscope type device that sort of mad-libs in lyrics from a list of acceptable words.
I cannot BELIEVE they basically called Sauron an antihero?? How can they not have anyone evil actually be evil?? Why do we need to feel empathy for every bad guy and fall for their handsome charms I’m so confused??
The good guys cant even be good. They even speak about Elrond at one point and how horrible he is and they say "its the right thing to feel about him at that time, but itll be different the next week".
They seem to think this is what people mean by character arc. Flipflopping personalities where everyones evil.
They're so morally bankrupt that they can no longer distinguish between Good and Evil -- at all. And Amazon intentionally allowed them to act as showrunners for this show. The results were both predictable and predicted.
@@disparutoo ''I don't think they understand their own show''
Okay, no offence Disparu, but these fems DO understand the show and they are wrecking it on purpose - and YOU are the one who doesn't understand their motivations.
You either don't understand it, or can't admit it. One of those two
@@tuorofgondolin8235 Well, culture has been taken over by a H8 movement ( starts with ''F'' and ends in ''ism'') - so of course the show turned out this way
@@disparutoo @14:36 - ''was it that you thought the story was wrong...that it wasn't good enough'' - Answer: Yes - The story appeals to men, so they changed it so it wouldn't appeal to men.
Simple, isn't it?
"She is unlikeable because she does not do what you would do, but does what she would do" Yes and what she chooses to do is not only unlikeable but arguably immoral. If you hear people including children crying for help and you walk away instead of helping them, then calling you unlikeable is the mild way to put it
I found this funny, because she is unlikable because she is doing what she wouldn't do. Galadriel is a badass, she went with her forces into dol guldor twice! she mad lorien a refuge for the wood elves, and helped the fellowship. She's compassionate, wise, loyal and empathic. Guyladriel is hot headed, stubborn, narcissistic and selfish. Even if they say she is younger back in the second age, she isn't that young and is already Lady Galadriel, being a wife and mother at this point in the timeline.
@@THEROSSAGE this younger Galadriel argument from the shills is so weak as she's older than the other main elf characters and close to 3000 years old by the time of the show
@@THEROSSAGE well apparently her husband is dead and we have no mention of her daughter so who know what their doing with the character.
@@jddiggy2343 Arwen will ask Elrond why he hates grandpa Sauron so much.
@@THEROSSAGE the books never even implicated that Galadriel was a narcissist, she always had that "mother nature" aura around her
Writers: “why did she jump off the ship? You’ll be asking that for years after watching “
Watchers five seconds after she jumps off ship: “wow she’s an idiot for jumping off ship”
XD so true
Seriously - and I love that they take it as a foregone conclusion that anyone would watch the whole load of crap all the way through once-let alone twice! They are So convinced of their incredible work of genius that they are excitedly spewing their theories it. Would be humorous if they hadn’t just finger-painted over a Van Gogh!
Exactly, all roads lead to idiot.
If she jumped off with no plan, she’s an idiot.
If she was banking on what happened actually happening, she’s an idiot.
It doesn’t help the only other motivation Galadriel (or any character present) can have is “the author needed me to act this way.”
@@burntumbrage6868 There's not a single moment in the whole show that I would consider rewatching... But I could spend an hour just watching clips of the trilogy 20 years later.
@@BigSeanH - exactly. Man, god bless Peter Jackson for doing his best to bring Tolkein’s work to the screen-Not someone else’s! That trilogy will continue to be rewatched forever and will still stand up.
That Walter White thing reminds me of a quote I read: "The problem with modern movies is that they reference other movies instead of real life".
Fantasy about hobbits, elves, dwarves, orcs needs to reference drug lord and chemistry teacher
I don't see a problem with referencing other movies. But you have to make your own work good.
@@kaltaron1284 It's a game of telephone, fantasy multiplied by fantasy becomes noise and nonsense. Reality through the lens of fantasy can be meaningful and useful to the heart. Sauron should be a reflection of deeper evil, corruption, this foreboding sense of something being deeply wrong in the world. It's a sense that you can draw from reality, when you see war or suffering, and you see it happens again and again, and you have to bear with it, and answer to yourself how you will live knowing that evil exists. And so a story about little people facing evil becomes something that you can project yourself on, and your heart remembers somehow, subconsciously, these heroic stories.
Relating Sauron to another fictional character that was himself a reflection of other human errors and fundamental flaws creates noise and a distance from the truth. Parts of every story and character are just flair or circumstance, creations to suit the purpose of a wider, more meaningful story, but not meaningful in and of themselves. But if you build off of them, you end up with foreign objects and detritus in your portrayal, artifacts of mimicry, it's not being built whole cloth off of a deeper reality or principle, but as a signal towards the particularities of some other cultural chunk.
It's why so many remakes and reboots suck, because they build off of the signalling of these prior stories, but not the deeper ideological senses that were unfolding into these stories. And so these new products clash, or feel noisy, or forced, and elements are included that do nothing or even act counter to what could have been delivered, just for the sake of waving a flag to say, "ah yes, this is that thing you saw before, look, it has the same characters and they're wearing the same pants they used wear."
@@KingMinish Firstly what you describe does fit Morgoth better than Sauron IMHO. Sauron is misguided ambition. Trying to control and improve in twisted ways. Morgoth is hatred against what another has made and trying to undo it.
Remakes can be good. They will never be the same as the original and they may strike different tones. But that doesn't mean they can't be good.
The problem is when they diverge too much or the quality is simply not there.
The Batman reboots for example weren't bad. Spiderman had some good reboots.
I've heard good things about Ginka Eiyuu Densetsu (Legend of the Galactic Heroes) but haven't seen it yet. Same for Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood although in that case it's more like a different and more faithful adaptation after the source material had finished. Similar to Hellsing Ultimate.
That podcast is possibly the worst thing ever heard by human ears.
The showrunners should be forced to eat every page of the Silmarillion, the Hobbit and the LOTR trilogy as penitence for their destruction of Tolkien.
Also, early congratulations Disparu on a thoroughly deserved 100k subs.
Every single cast and crewmember should also be forced to transcribe every spoken word from every appendix from Peter Jackson's trilogy.
The podcast sounds like contrived propaganda.
you are too good to them
Nah, the professor's books are too good to be fed to these pigs.
That would be a waste of good books. Better to substitute each page with used toiletpaper.
Saying "antiheroes and moral grey areas are so tolkinian" is incredible. Not only do they not have a single clue what they are talking about, they know and they are confidently lying about it.
Eh, if you look at the Silmarillion there certainly are plenty such characters and situations. But most if not all of those Antiheroes would have gotten themselves killed by the point the show is set.
Fuck Russia though
@@illyrusemperor9278 Fantastic discourse mate, absolutely brilliant comment. Very topical to the conversation being had.
@@fullirishham1015 his nickname means "freedom for Russia". Fuck him. Free Ukraine!
@@illyrusemperor9278again, how does that have anything to do with the topic of conversation? not arguing against your points, but that's a different conversation to the one we're having.
The writers don't understand that Sauron is essentially a demon/fallen angel. He is NOT simply an evil human.
I can’t wait to learn that the Balrog is basically a good guy, he just had a rough childhood.
"They raised an army and saved a continent"
- 3 puny ships without horses and provisions
- Yes, the battle of the local tavern will have sages and bards busy for the next 2000 years
3 Ships but 500 Horses^^
the only people trying to save the continent were the mystics burning the Harfoot's caravans
But they lost since the orcs achieved the goal they set out to do...
And they didn’t save anything anyway. A volcano wiped out the village along with a lot of the villagers and army.
Awesome comment.
Amazon: Sauron is gonna be like Walter White.
Everyone else: How about you make Sauron be like Sauron?
But but... Subverting expectations 😭
Ah, too obvious. That's what people will expect. Galadriel flirting with Sauron... the closer we are to danger, the farther we are from harm.
Did you just say that Sauron should act as SAURON and that writers should follow SOURCE materiel?
ARE YOU COMPLETELY OUT OF YOUR MIND?
Next season, Sauron gets a Middle Earth magical illness and decides to sell unique magical mithril rings to pay each of Middle Earth's top healers to make himself well. Sauron is actually a good guy that is a victim of circumstance and season two will catalogue his descent into the darkness. The 'real' Sauron actually is like Dread Pirate Roberts from 'Princess Bride' and Halbrand is just the next guy to take on the mantle. Season two will cover all this in excruciating detail.-- /s
It wouldn't surprise me if the two 'writers' actually discussed a similar nonsensical plot for their abomination of a show.
The minute a big name show uses the "be like" or "is like" as a promotion, my first thought is: oh, this will be sht. They can't even sell it based on its own merits.
Halbrand: "You don't know how evil I have been..."
Galadriel: "You can always achieve redemption..."
Halbrand: "I'm Sauron."
Galadriel: "Except that - you can't be forgiven for that!"
The writers are so brain dead and insincere....
I mean, revange on Sauron was her driving force, it wouldnt make sense if she forgive him
None of it makes sense.
@@dai-belizariusz3087 Well, not for a human. But Elves are a little more wise and less spitefull, and more careful about their decisions.
@@Quotenwagnerianer but clearly not galadriel tho
They’re trying to hard to make the shows dialogue like the film trilogy, and the results are super cringe.
Annatar would have been perfect for the purpose of making something nuanced. Imagine Annatar showing up, the audience knowing its Sauron, and then the character giving the audience mixed messages: aka being charming as heck, helping elves left and right, but having the insidious background of the fact that you know who he is. This would have been awesome on screen! We would have seen the gradual turn of the Eregion elves towards evil which wouldve given us the "modern" nuance everyone wants. Instead the showrunners thought... Who's gonna fall for that? Lets have a human Sauron being a rando on a wreck, eventually coming to Eregion and telling Celebrimbor: have you tried to make alloys? Brilliant.
I’m not sure why they thought people who read the books want to be surprised. I don’t want to watch a movie of a book I’ve read so I can be surprised, I want to see the story I know on the screen. When I want to be surprised I watch a show where I haven’t read the books or where there aren’t any. Honestly I can only think of one movie based off a book where I went into it hoping they would change the ending and that’s because the last book in the series sucked big time. I don’t know why everything has to be suspenseful and mysterious with these people (well I assume it’s the Bad Robot influence). Plus the entire suspense thing only works with a first watching, if you want people to rewatch something and really invest in it mystery boxes are a terrible foundation.
It's like what Hitchcock said about a bomb under a table. The 5 minutes before it explodes, while the characters sit over it, is far more tense if you know the bomb is there.
If two characters were talking at a table and just exploded for no apparent reason you'd be like, wha?
Matt Daemon Targaryn is proof you can have a character who you know is a piece of shit but just can't stay mad at and still _want_ to like despite the glaring problems.
The showrunners are simply geniuses who are misunderstood and ahead of their time....
I completely agree. I honestly would love to see HOW Annatar "seduced" or "conned" the elves. Starting off completely helpful (honestly doing good things to make their lives better with his knowledge), but ever so slowly becoming less helpful and ever so slowly sowing the seeds of distrust and destruction. However, these clowns have 1/1000000th the talent to actually write a character with subtlety and guile. And they know it! Thus, not going to do that. THAT would have been a great show to watch.
Instead of a poorly done mystery box. They could've made Sauron an Iago type character tricking and corrupting a noble and admirable Othello like Celebrimbor. Instead of relying on a mystery that is barely a mystery to sustain dramatic tension, they could have made it obvious Annatar/Halbrand was lying and evil, but the audience watches the inevitability of his success. It's great drama and underscores the tragedy of the creation of the rings. And when they ARE created, our heroes suffer for their naivety and now need to make up for it.
Which is what was originally written but is hard to pull off even for good writers whilst these idiots know nothing.
Iago is a _perfect_ example and the parallel is likely something Tolkien approved of that would've been a perfect homework for the writers.
They didn't just give Lord of the Rings to the incompetent, they gave it to the incompetent and arrogant, thinking they could do better than the creator himself.
You repeatedly said, "The most evil person in middle earth." And according to what actually happened in RoP that would 100% be Galadriel. Sauron was the most honest and caring person in the ENTIRE SHOW. He actually TRIED to be good but was dragged down and demonized by the harpy Galadriel.
Nah, the most caring person is Adar.
@@Goodbutevilgenius Either way the nicest characters are the dark lord and the orc leader. All the protagonists are manipulative narcissists who do horrible things like abandon their kin to die at the slightest inconvenience, break oaths the moment they are out of sight, and bully a man, who is trying to do the right thing, back to the dark side.
After all these years of daydreaming about all the things I would say to him at his one and only chance for redemption, like you're strong enough to go back to Aman for a few ages you can handle it, or go get rid of or reform all the orcs to prove yourself, and all we got was "You are Sauron!" "I will never be your queen!" "You will never be redeemed!" 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
To be fair I'm sure Sauron had good intentions when he sided with Melkor. A few thousand years ago.
@@kaltaron1284 That's like saying roosevelt had good intentions when he drug america into the war.
The "My Girl Galadriel" dance is the absolute cringiest thing in the whole entertainment industry. It even beat out the Island Boys and that's fucking TOUGH.
I commented without seeing yours. I cringe so hard I’m afraid I’ll hurt my back. Should come with a viewer warning
it is cringe, but that "i can change him" as he pretends to put his hair behind his ear is even more cringe.🤢🤮😵
Nah the "guy" is way worse imo
I was thinking the exact same thing. It's like watching a trainwreck, I actually went back in the video to watch it again. Imagine waking up every day know that's on the internet for all time and people are putting it in their videos every day.
Bottom line: that dancing podcaster never watched an episode when each one was released. As quoted by herself during a stream. Like I said, at least one superfan of Tolkien in the UK would come from the West Midlands NOT all from London.
"They thought it was stupid, that no one would have fallen for Annatar's plan"
Proceeds to write the entire season arc of Galadriel as being stupid and falling for Sauron's plan
I went to Comic-Con and I got to see the rings of power cast on stage and it was pretty interesting because nobody had any clue about who JRR Tolkien was or his experiences in life and anything he ever wrote or created was pretty much zero to them I felt that nobody really understood the whole concept of adventure and mystery and the nuances of life I mean it was kind of depressing that's why I enjoy your show so much because you cut right down to the meat and potatoes and everything you're saying is 100% accurate I hope and wish that the people were actually creating this show actually follow you and maybe make amends somehow
ok incel
@@reek4062 least disrespectful leftist
@@reek4062 Tell me your name
And then compare it to the extra material from the LotR movies where they said that there were copies of the book laying around till the last day of the shooting and PJ said: "ok, let's treat it like it's a real story that really happened and we're making a documentary of it".
That’s tragic but unsurprising 🤬
The part where they talk about how Galadriel and Sauron being attracted because of each other's power is "much bigger and more cosmic" than romance tells me two, rather worrying things about the showrunners:
1. They miss the entire point of Tolkien's work: in which true love and honor are more powerful than rings and thrones and even death itself; and
2. They sort of confirm that there is a subset of our society who regard real, honest love as trivial, and pairings and friendship as only a means to consolidate power.
Explains a lot, really.
Jesus Fuck... how did you put in two bullet points precisely what I was about to spend half a page on? You're right and I dig it.
to your second point, this subset is the majority of people in positions of power and influence. it always jhas been like this. in medieval times the kings and counts etc didnt marry for love. they killed their own brothers to get more land. its just becoming more visible now because these people have twitter accounts.
To be fair, love as a reason to form a relationship is a modern conception. In the quite recent past all relationships formed because of interest in wealth,status and such, not love.
@@kostasbiker9302 that’d be HoD and definitely not RoP.
@@kostasbiker9302 For the upper class, no doubt it was. Amongst those who had no wealth, or status, love and desire were always a thing, and that's why for a very long time were considered not just trivial, but demeaning and uncouth.
_”Dumb people are always blissfully unaware of how dumb they really are.”_
-Patrick Star, describing the “creatives” behind _Rings of Power_
Yep, the Dunning-Kruger Effect...precisely, precisely...
yeah ever notice people with down syndrome are always happy? samething hollywood has absolutely zero self awareness
That's called 'Failing Upwards in Hollywood'.
This comment section is full with dumb people
I can actually imagine Patrick briefly saying this, then immediately belching and scratching his stomach.
If I have to see that "Superfan" girl do her "my girl Galadriel" thing again I might put my eyes out with an ice pick
yep, and she didnt even watch the show. as fake, as a 3$ bill.
Could you do that to _her eyeballs_ instead?
It is interesting that in Rings of Power Mithril is too rare to make three rings out of it without making an alloy, but Bilbo's mail shirt, as well as numerous other items including the DOORS TO MORIA, were made of it.
And that after the Return of the King Gimli rebuilt the gates of Minas Tirith with Mithril.
Changing a plot point from a book in order to avoid spoilers because of the reader already knowing what happens is one of the most rage inducing actions that an adapter can take. There ought to be a law.
This show is an insult to Tolkien, it is disgusting how posers are destroying every beautiful story created by people better than them.
The thing with the showrunners talking about Walter White or Tony Soprano is that they are just namedropping those characters to try and add value to their own creation by comparing their crappy characters to much better ones. It's actually quite sad.
They may as well have name dropped Little Foot for all the similarities they think they share.
It's also pretty disgusting that the only thing these people have as reference points for storytelling is 'You know these other characters from tv? Yeah that.'
There's no lived experience, no real life reflection or personal, individual thought. It's all just whatever mass-processed garbage has made money for the last 5 years, because that's literally all the sheltered writers have.
@@axiss5840 Definitely, I'm sure their documentation and reference pre-prod process was just "Which shows we find cool and how could we do exactly the same with ours?"
@@CloudyNebula They've definitely set out to create a show with complex, morally ambiguous characters because Bezos wanted something as big as Game of Thrones, but these tools failed at it in a phenomenal way. I love the Sopranos, Madmen, Dostoyevsky... basically shows and literally fiction where no one is a hero, but I also love Tolkien, and to brag about bringing "moral ambiguity" into a christian story where good and evil are clearly defined for important reasons, is beyond my comprehension, but then I don't have a mind of an exploitative, money-grabbing asshole. Even if this show was supposed to just mimic Game of Thrones, it would still be bad because they failed writing morally ambiguous, believable characters. All they managed to write were a clumsy puppet of a "strong fem trope," nonsensical "diversity," and out of place "representation."
It's Hollywood. All they do is namedrop.
This just further proves what we already knew only too well; they know nothing about Tolkien's work and they know nothing about writing a TV show. What a great choice it was, then, to put them in charge of a TV show based on Tolkien's work!
$700m down the shitter? Money laundering op
They know nothing about Tolkien, but they have their Twitter clout. That’s more important these days, so that the studios can just smear detractors with the usual labels. I’m sure that’s how these two got the gig.
You are giving them way too much credit if you think this is a money laundering op, these people are idiots
@@letsgojoe3927 Money laundering? What do you mean?
@@thatfirstoneLook at the show. Do you see $700 million there? Maybe on the silkscreened armor? The crowd scenes with seven or eight extras? Yeah me neither.
Put together very well. Congratulations on 100k subs. 100% deserved. Go Disparu! ♥
Tolkien was a master of language. Upon going back and reading Lord of the Rings, I learned more and more about just how perfectly every sentence and interaction is crafted. It would be impossible for almost anyone to compete on his level, so it seems like these people didn't bother to try.
Believe me, I would absolutely NOT try. I recognize Tolkien's greatness and would NEVER attempt to get within a mile of him. But what I mean by that is that I would never ever remotely consider trying to tackle LotR. I have to admit, I admire Peter Jackson's guts in this regard.
The quote from galadriel about knowing Sauron's mind is a lot more straight forward than that, Tolkien's dialogue usually is unless he's writing poetry.
"even as we stand here I percieve the dark lord and know his mind, and ever he seeks to see me and my thought."
she is wearing Nenya, the ring of Adamant, we know that the wielder of the one ring can control the wearers of the other rings, including the three, indeed Frodo asks her in that same scene whether he could read the minds of other ring bearers, and she tells him he could, if he had a will strong enough to dominate others.
she also reveals she knows exactly how many times he's worn the one ring since he found out what it was, indcating she's already read something of his! mind, due to her connection with nenya.
Again, Tolkien explains all of this very straightforwardly in Galadriel's dialogue, only a complete nincompoop would get this wrong.
Then again only a complete nincompoop would think Bilbo was emperor of the shire throwing giant parties because of the ring's influence either!
Time for me to reread the books.
If you want a very faithful adaptation which isn't quite as long, check out the bbc radio play from 1981, great casting, original dialogue, and awesome music.
It even has Ian Holm as Frodo, who played Bilbo in the Peter Jackson films.
@@darktenor4967 That's from the books. Book II Chapter 7: The Mirror of Galadriel. Why would they need a "more faithful adaptation". More faithful than Tolkien's own writing?
Edit: The only thing added was her knowing how many times he'd worn the Ring.
I think it's more talking about her own abilities. She can see inside his mind, but keep hers closed to him. He's not in possession of the One at that time. She goes on right after that in the book, saying she knows his plans for the Elves. It's after that that Frodo sees the ring and she explains it to him.
@@darktenor4967 absolutely! And check out The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, Smith of Wooton Major and Leaf by Niggle!
The BBC did us proud.
The showrunners are right about one thing, when they say, "the story Tolkien never wrote". Yeah, he would have never written CRAP. Let the shaming and the mockery continue because the ACTIVISTS are pissed, the incentive to destroy Tolkien is clear because the Tolkien fandom broke them.
@H R Quite right. There is a concerted corporate effort to destroy and rewrite every franchise people found heroic. Every single one, to twist it out of shape and quite possibly to destroy every single one. They want our contemporary myths destroyed, our heroes ruined.
Yeah it’s called communism, get ready to be the hero in your story. We’re going to have to stand and fight these people
I still remember when Amazon's Tolkien professor tried to school someone online when a commentator questioned her how, if Tolkien would write something like this, it was contradictory in many places and the professor insisted they actually read Tolkien and some of THEIR own articles on Tolkien...the commentator was Carl F Hostetter and his reply/comeback was that he was VERY familiar with ALL of Tolkien works - inc. all her recommendations - and left her speechless because he wrote it in a reply that J.R.R Tolkien would. The fandom aren't just fanboy's - they are linguistic, language and history academics; I don't think they appreciate Amazon making something that mocks their learning.
I find it horribly interesting how the writers, with a notepad, a few team meetings over donuts and a couple of years, believed they could create something better than one intelligent man’s life work.
The way they took that quote from Galadriel about knowing Sauron illustrates so much about how little they understand Tolkien's works. In fact, this whole story would not have been possible if they did not gut Galadriel's central characteristics, which she already had by the Second Age, including her wisdom and her piercing insight into people (so that she could see right through Sauron, Fëanor, Boromir, and others, as well as know how to communicate with Dwarves). This strong character had to be thoroughly weakened for this story to play out as they wrote it. It fits with the general habit of the writers to make characters look smart/competent only by making others incompetent.
Yep, the pretty much only being that Sauron couldnt fool in any way fell in love, bullied and was completely blind to notice Sauron right next to her
I am still shocked that they felt entitled to complete destroy Galadriel's character. The arrogance, the hubris of these people never ceases to amaze me.
Because writing challenges for strong and smart character is hard. So they nerfed her to the ground. But then they found out that they kinda cannot work with that character, because she doesn’t have an ability to solve any problems but those requiring brute force, and started throwing deus ex machina solutions for her other problems at her.
I think their bizarre interpretation of- and extrapolation from- that one line demonstrates something far worse than a mere lack of understanding of Tolkien.
To me, it sounds like they already had their own dumb fanfic in mind and only went back to the source material to find any random sentence or snippet of text that could be twisted to justify their *ahem "vision".
@@AliRadicali "Go back to the book" ~ one of the showrunners at SDCC lmao.
*[**10:40**-**11:22**:]* _"But I've said in my reviews that so many of the supposed 'heroes' in_ Rings of Power _are evil, and the show doesn't seem to realize it, and it seems like the showrunners genuinely don't understand what Evil is, themselves. Tolkien's world was black-and-white; there was Good and Evil, and they were battling. But not this one. Not in_ Rings of Power. _[...] Sauron was evil. And yes: you can have good people who fall to Evil, but _*_they are good or evil;_*_ there is no 'anti-heroes'."_
That sums it up, and it resolves a problem plaguing modern writers that I've tackled with great force and perseverance: moral ambiguity in place of genuine discernment and complexity. If there is an objective moral truth, then one can't say that "we are all the devil, deep within even the purest Soul," since it is in one's choices and one's actions that one either is a Hero or a Villain, with no in-between to mediate the conflict. Neither, then, can we allow for the absurd pretension that the _cause_ for one's disgust in witnessing an evil is projection _in all cases._ Some of us project, but in a morally objective universe an act is either good or evil by default, regardless of perception, and the wise are those who see the good for what it is, the evil for its nature, and they feel approval or disgust accordingly, depending on their own degree of innocence or guilt.
Yet none of this I mean to push as though it were the _only_ way of writing nor the _only_ way of reading. _Breaking Bad,_ _Better Call Saul,_ and _BoJack Horseman_ all have anti-heroes, as do _Death Note,_ _Evangelion,_ _Attack on Titan,_ _Cowboy BeBop,_ and _Ghost in the Shell._ However, there's a reason that the _Star Wars_ franchise suffered in the hands of Rian Johnson, just as Marvel suffered in the hands of Gao and _Rings of Power_ suffered on the fingers of McKay and Payne. It is because a writer who excels in working on a show like _Breaking Bad_ or _Rick and Morty_ or a modern _Star Trek_ film is not at all equipped to tell _mythology._ An _archetype_ is something sacred, not deserving of a deconstruction by the modern intellect, and trying to reduce the blacks and whites to grey is alien to the entire work not only of directors, novelists, and comic book developers, but also that of Carl Jung himself, the founder of projection as a psychoanalytic concept. Jung, like Tolkien, saw that Good and Evil worked in very clear and certain ways; he only sought to mediate between them. Tolkien did not seek that sort of mediation to the same extent, and neither of these men sought to _ignore_ that these were opposites by making them ambiguous. That is the attitude of privilege and cowardice, not courage and adversity.
🧙♂ *[({R.G.)}]* ⚔
Imagine being a showrunner and saying "Ship" unironically
Hallmark of a fanfiction writer imo.
After listening to just the bare minimum of the interview, I think all I can say to sum up my feelings on the situation is just disappointment. They're so unsure of themselves and it shows in their writing and in these interviews, but put on a pretentious act to try and hide their own insecurities and it's just...sad. They're are inexperienced and unqualified, they know it, and they're doing the whole 'fake it till you make it' thing and...it isn't going to work when you're dealing with an IP as large as Tolkien's.
Season 2 isn't even going to be worth watching out of morbid curiosity.
yeah, well, they learned from the best of the best in "fake it till you make it"...jar jar abrams himself. the dude's a hack as are his little minions.
Yea this season got a lot of attention for obvious reasons, but it's time to put this sick horse down. We all need to stop hate watching for season 2; I just really want this show to stop raping Tolkien. We need to send a message
@@doomsdaybooty1072 right?? I wish more people would not watch this show so they wouldn’t have enough views to keep making it
@@yomamma.ismydaddy216 Funnily enough, I don't think Amazon has publicly released how many people watched it. You have Jennifer Salke claiming that the show is at around 100M customers having watched it, which I refuse to believe since if that was the case, I'm pretty sure I'd have heard people say a lot more about it. At the very least, it'd have been blowing up everywhere on social media but I don't think that really happened, did it? For all we know, Amazon probably could've racked up 1M views at max and are trying to fool everyone into thinking they got more than they already did.
@@cicada8981 yeah.. but it doesn’t seem like they’re canceling the show so I guess they got enough views to decide to keep going
To these guys “Choose Your Own Adventure” books are the pinnacle of story telling.
Hey, I have seen choose your own adventure books with better plots and characters than RoP
The biggest lie of the podcast was " it was even better the second time I watched it," it is a masterpiece . This show will be taught in all the film schools on what not to do when a studio gives you a multi million dollar franchise. Disney has already gone that as well with Star Wars.
Im in film school right now and my instructors already are teaching how the RoP is a great example of how not to write stories OR adapt existing work. Literally its being taught as we speak and people who work in the industry truly hate it…which is rare because we are also taught to work on things we have no interest in as thats most the work in this industry…a damn paycheck at the end of the day
@@Carboxylated It seems to me that you need to go to another film school.
delusional is the perfect description, its shocking how little they genuinely think things through yet are so publicly proud and arrogant
I just shake my head. It's like they're on acid and spouting about how they can taste light and smell sounds... but they're really just two guys high on acid who can't bring the experience to a TV series.
Thanks a lot, Disparu, for this important video and all the good work done. You have pointed out a very important element that many of us seem to have missed from the beginning. I was aware of the fact that the showrunners did not know what they were doing most of the time, and that they were just being evil when they sometimes did. In fact it is even more serious. Those people have literally no grasp on reality, don't claim to have any and are ok with it. They just hate the very core of Tolkien's work for what it is (ie its moral values), and enjoy taking bits here and there to subvert it and ultimately destroy the whole. All it took was this nonsense of "letting people make their own story" or "truth does not exist, there are just subjective points of view". Add a good measure of stellar incompetence and there you go. The whole affair has got it all : hubris, malevolence and stupidity, which we already knew, but also objective insanity.
Listening to the podcast answers, I can't help but be reminded of the GoT showrunners, who seemed to prioritise coming up with a twist ending no one could predict over making an ending that made a lick of sense and tied the various themes and plotlines together.
If you're adapting something and your main concern is ensuring that fans don't recognise the story, you're doing it wrong.
tbf the twist ending was all Georges work, it doesnt pay off in the show because theyd not laid the groundwork for it over that last season, let alone moving that way in earlier seasons
@@awavey I don't know who is responsible for writing the ending, but I agree that the execution was completely bungled and rushed. If they were going to have Daenerys turn into a ruthless, fanatical pragmatist, I think the obvious place to start showing those changes would have been at the end of her stint in Slaver's bay, when her idealistic attempt to abolish slavery completely fell apart.
I think you could easily justify her learning the "lesson" that she was just too kind and gentle with the people of slaver's bay and that she has to be more ruthless to create her utopia.
Preach!!! 🙌 Long time fans don't WANT surprises - they bought the name and the brand for a goddamn reason!!! Doing the whole "subverting expectations" bit is getting old. I hope they realize that!
"Galadriel just kind of forgot about the iron fleet"
-professional writers being professional
You’re being far too kind. Really it reminds me of pretty little liars.
(Edit: when Reddit leaked the script they had to “outsmart” the viewer and in the end insulted the entire audiences intelligence)
When Guy-ladriel rode on top of She-Hulk into Sauron's Los Pollos Hermanos in Rivendell and shouted "Black Elves Matter!" I was in tears
I shat an egg
🤣💀
🤣
So strong yet brave!
I just can't believe how shallow some people are.. My heart breaks for Tolkien.
I'm not surprised Disparu fans are as shallow as he is
Mom called and said to change your sheets as the smell is wafting up from the basement.
They really should just shut-up. They made a very bad fan-fiction depiction of what professor Tolkien wrote.
They don't understand Tolkien and they have no idea what the world of Lord of the Rings is.
The laughable thing is that they are saying "Season 2 will be more canonical." to bring people to watch it thinking we will fall for it LOL.
The part about them going on about the forging of rings, saying people wouldn't just accept help off a stranger. That's exactly what happened and that's kind of the point. Celebrimbor took Annatar in because he was arrognat and wanted to be the best elven smith and ultimately lead to his downfall. Pride xomes before a fall anyone? Galadrial was immediately suspicious of Annatar so sent him away, not kind of had the hots for him and some silly mind connection.
Now Galadriel is actively covering for him to avoid looking stupid.
In The Silmarillion, Tolkien describes the Sauron of the First Age as "a sorcerer of dreadful power, master of shadows and of phantoms," he goes on to say that he was the "lord of werewolves" and his "dominion was torment." - Yeah, really anti hero . . . So canonical . . .
This Sauron was the Lord of Bedhead and Itchy Feet.
Yep.... remember, he only did it for his family.....😄
I guess Saul Goodman would be the Mouth of Sauron?
Nonono guys, showrunners explained why /:OO
Quotes from ep 8 (same meaning different lines, i can't remember):
Halbrand: "But Gal, we're fwiends"
Galadriel: "You're friends with Morgoth, you asshole"
Halbrand: "Bro, when Morgoth got defeated i was finally free and saw the light of the One again, how could you say that?!!"
Ah yes, light of the One: Eru Iluvatar, right? No. Never ever even once in the whole season is Eru mentioned directly, they really did take to heart what happened to Fëanor. Nontheless, the original Halbrand quote said something like: "It was like a closing fist finally let go of my neck" or some shit like that.
You see guys? Sauron didn't *actually* want to torture all those people and cause as much pain as he did, it was Morgoth that made him do it!! He's a victim of all the wicked things Morgoth did to him, don't you feel bad? Just like the drugs made Walter White sell drugs, right?
Yeah this show has me dead. And by the way, Mairon willingly joined Melkor, and for all we know, he didn't regret it. Therefore no, showrunners, Sauron has been evil from the moment he stepped into Arda (or at least on his way to become evil) and wasn't no aNtI hErO.
He was known as Gorthaur long ago. And Sauron was given to him as a cursed name BY the Elves themselves naming him The Deceiver!
@@adventussaxonum448 speaking of mouth of Sauron there is a nice deep well done video of mouth of Sauron. It’s 40 minutes long by Red Book. You’ll be amazed. This is Tolkien’s real work at its finest. And the true fans tend to lean towards being academic in nature which is great because Tolkiens works were always a piece of fine academic literature as well as a fine art showing how spiritually dialed in he was to the world and it’s true histories. He had many dreams regarding the flood of Atlantis which the Numenorean Adûnaic word for their land is Atalante/and Talat❤ depending on who’s speaking really and when and after which events took place. The elves call that land Westernesse!❤
I've rewatched Disparus rant which came out a week before RoP. He was calm and cautious in presenting his arguments with just a hint of sarcasm. After the show released, he descended into complete madness and it was god damn beautiful. Can't wait for the second season.
The Rant season 2 🖤
These roastings by various people are the only good thing to come out of the show and enjoyable.
Were they trying to make Sauron and Guyladriel into a Kylo Ren and Rey? Like really? These guys are such hacks.
Ow Mah Gowd , Rings of Power is sooooo Ah Maze Ing. That black elf is so freaking Ah Maze Ing . That one Orc is sooo freakin’ scary, I was like … Ow Mah Gawd, what the actual heck. I’ve watched the first season 7 times. It’s better than the Hobbit, it’s better that PJ’s trilogy, it’s better than the books. It’s like soooooo Ah Maze Ing , oh ,,, OH ! I’m I’m I’m oh oh oh !
21:25 - That's a major difference from the books. In the books, Frodo, for example, wouldn't lie to his friends. In the books it isn't "get the great evil by any means necessary". It's "do good and greater good will come of it".
When they said they went back to the books they were referring to the accounting books trying to figure out how they spent 95% of the budget on coke and only had a week left to write the script for the entire season.
They forgot to mention how when Gollum got the ring he hired a full circus and threw the most hugest party ever. Radagast the Lion tamer was there. He hired The Rolling Stones to play music. Elrond the Wise brought the finest weed. There was even a dwarf orgy at the after party.
The finest pipe weed from the south farthing, master Meriadoc
That would have been a better show than the one I just finished watching.
Don't give them the idea of a dwarf orgy.
Disparu and I have been through the desert on a horse with no name.
He let it go but it came back
Could be worse. Could be with she-hulk.
@@Contractor48 amen.
I'm still not entirely sure what evil things Sauron did to "call" to Galadriel to jump off the boat other than making some leaves go black.... Am I missing something?
They repeatedly talked about cosmic influence etc. They seem to be implying that Sauron can call to her from across the world. They said "everything she did" could be due to it, which would include her rampant hunting him for centuries before, including all of the snow stuff we see at the start of episode 1.
Oh my god, it's like listening to some GCSE drama students discussing their group project with their examiner. The enthusiasm is there, but no experience -story-telling or real-world, the plot is cobbled together out of soap opera scenes, and they change their answers about the basic mechanics of the world to try and impress the examiner.
THESE ARE NOT THE HANDS UNTO WHICH YOU PLACE A BILLION DOLLAR PROJECT AND A CULTURAL CORNERSTONE.
Sad to see such a great franchise be treated the way it is..
At least we can be thankful they didn't go halfway.
If this were even remotely comparable to the Peter Jackson productions we would have a lot of people on the fence. Thank goodness they went all-in on being bad at their job and produced utter garbage instead.
seeing this mess has lead me to purchase the books so I can read them for the first time. Thoroughly enjoying it so far!
honestly, the silver lining here is because this show was so fundamentally bad and so utterly forgettable, i don't think it'll have any lasting impact on the franchise. There will never be any real debate about where this ranks within the canon, it'll just be referenced in the occasional dumb joke on a message board
Doctor Who, Star Wars, Marvel, Scooby Doo, Rings Of Power... the list goes on. Different titles, same shit being done to them, more or less. And there's plenty more one could add... ✌🐸
@@draconianemanations2785 and Star Trek too. And HeMan... these people are destroying anything people hold dear from their childhood
A "friendship" between Galadriel and Sauron? I am just... speechless... There are no words.
Hypothetically, such a friendship could have existed; however, it would have been in Valinor, before Morgoth kicked things off. Not saying it did happen, and the dynamic between them would've been far different than what we saw if it had. (Come to think of it, that probably would have been a better angle for RoP to try...)
@@Wraithspartan To me, Sauron is the embodiment of evil that came after Morgoth. That's how I know this character - the way Tolkien wrote him, not some good guy in some other hypothetical universe. That's why I cannot picture them being friends; it's nonsense.
@@SilhouetteSE You thought that because that's the majority of his character. There is a "pre-Morgoth" time (seen in the bullying scene) where both existed in Valinor. But the little we have of him pre-Morgoth is pretty much that he existed, was an assistant smith to Aule, and fell in with Morgoth (though some material describes his motivations, and none of it fits RoP). His status as "embodiment of evil" constitutes most of who he is.
I was simply noting that they could have explored their professed angle in a way compatible with Tolkien's actual work, and it would likely have been a somewhat better approach. In the same manner that adjusting one's glidepath would result in a "better" crash landing, of course; but there it is.
It would have required better writing, and probably would have to displace the bullying scene... So nothing of value would've been lost.
@@Wraithspartan Wait, Sauron was still in Valinor after the birth of the Elves? Didn't he join Morgoth way way earlier?
@@grassblock7668 I believe so, though I could be mistaken.
Do these people listen to themselves and realize how insane they are?
Complete lack of self awareness is a hell of a drug.
the answer is no. This is the true power of stupid. They think they are Tolkien 2.0
they're gay, that's just the default setting
No one wants Sauron to be Walter White. They want him to be Sauron
The events in the series put the plot of the books in a new light. Apparently Sauron is looking for a ring to propose to Galadriel.
From the podcast: "I cannot believe Hellbrand had me fooled the whole time! Sauron was hiding in plain sight!" I actually said aloud: "What?!" Surely she's being sarcastic.
Felicia Day isn’t exactly bright.
The paycheck for hosting the official ROP podcast from amazon no doubt has certain scripted demands from the actress playing the character of the host....
And here I used to think Felicia day was actually ok
@@samcochran8203 never.
@@thistles yeah, ain't that the truth
You're a braver man than me to go to their podcast and listen for that after watching what they wrote.
either that or you just like pain and suffering and...I feel for you if so
either dead inside or sick....both aint good
Who is the interviewer? She sounds so squeakily vapid.
The quote from Galadriel came when she was wearing (and had been for thousands of years) a Ring. She *also* commented that Frodo was able to sense her thoughts better than most people *due to him being the Ringbearer*. Are they trying to say that Frodo was "intimate" with Galadriel? What a bunch of malarky.
Congratulations on 100k 🎇👏🎊
That was the most nauseating expression of narcissism I have ever heard! They’re pissing on Tolkien without the courtesy of calling it rain
If only RoP were more like the Lusitania. A big bang and everything is over after 15 minutes.
You can't write characters smarter than yourself
Of course you can. You as author has knowledge over thinks the character doesn't have. But if the character can induct that knowledge through small hints he can be more intelligent than yourself. Like Sherlock Holmes is written to be more intelligent.
You definitely can. However that requires effort and knowing how to do research
@@Walamonga1313 or, in other words, make yourself smarter first?
Tolkien wrote a complex character in Gollum, that had some internal struggle in him. Sauron was something else entirely. Gandalf or Elrond never said let's have a peace treaty with Sauron. Perhaps if we give him his ring back he'll be so grateful we can all live in peace...
dumb asses
these writers are
Sauron was written by token to be an analouge for satan. Pure evil from the beginning. He was never a tragic villain.
Sauron isn't a tragic villain. He is a complete liar and manipulator with no goodness.
@@tristanboss7319 hmm actually in this context Melkor/Morgoth was Satan, and Sauron was a more like a corrupted angel (but yes no good in Sauron since his corruption.)
at first everyone was complaining and i was defending the show. it was all about color of elves ppl talk about. but i assumed amazon probably hired the best writers and biggest funs money can buy. they have probably read all the letters tolien written.
and the first couple of episodes run . there was still hope in me. wizard was annatar, halbrad was a human king to recieve a ring. there was something wrong with galadriel but her time in numenor will fix it. they were just telling story .
then it started all go wrong :D they made a complete shitsstorm.quotes from gandalf, gilgalad is an ass, mithrill story, a fucking balrog 3000 years early.
amazon should fire all cast and writers , apoligy and rerun first season.
So, Sauron wanted to get out of the Sauron life and be a good guy (and hadn't yet turned back to evil due to Galadriel's spurning) yet we're also supposed to believe he has this master plan to create the rings and pour his will and malice into them before being outed as Sauron? The show wants sympathetic good boy Sauron but also master evil plan Sauron. Why am i to fear the 3 elven rings at this point
"And into this Ring he poured his cruelty, his malice and his will to dominate all life." - Good boi Sauron's ring doesn't amount to much in this series.
It’s a love story yo. Sauron becomes evil because he was rejected. He’s just misunderstood. The Hobbit and LOTR got it all wrong. Sauron is the hero.
I have, very recently, finished Silmarillion for the first time.
NOTHING that happens in this show is close to what happened among the stories told in the Silmarillion. Galadriel never was a main character and she barely got mentioned. Furthermore, the reason why Numenor sunk is because the King bought what Sauron was whispering him and this happened over time. Sauron fed on his pride and manipulated him to assault Valinor.
When Eru/Iluvatar sunk Numenor Sauron's body sunk with it but because he is a Maiar and immortal his spirit endured. He lost the ability of shapeshifting which they never explored in Rings of Power since then he had been in the form everyone saw in the Lord of the Rings. I mean for fuck's sake they missed the opportunity, somehow, to show his shapeshifting capabilities.
Also, naming Sauron Halbrand is just stupid. People KNEW who he was he gained their trust through his ability to manipulate people with words. Galadriel and Sauron never came in contact. This whole show it is a very bad abridged fanfic fan-made spin-off. Galadriel's character in the few lines she appeared in is basically traits shared by all Eldars
The showrunners comparing the show to Titanic was golden. There's no way they aren't doing this intentionally.
I think they're just trolls who hate Amazon and want to see the whole ship sinking honestly. No one can be that dumb.
@@arturnotyourbusinessyoutub1294 oh yes they can
Watching a story about Titanic while knowing the whole time the ship is going to sink is one thing. Continuing to watch a story that probably won’t be finished because it sucks has an entirely different kind of tragic to it.
The showrunners are doing damage control. They're encouraging people to fill in the blanks of their Swiss cheese of a show so they forget how bad it really was, and hope to sell this extra homework as the show being "engaging".
They're essentially trying to bait the viewers into writing the show for them. That way the viewers will remember the show based on their imagination rather than based on what it actually was.
Do they have the self awareness to realize they need to do damage control?
the show is already written by tolkien. someone tell them there are several books and letters about the show they need to read. no need of viewer opinion.
You deserve a Nobel for your sacrifice. You’ve suffered a lot for us. I salute you sir!
Their audacity to claim loyalty to the books, when their ultimate agenda is to fuck up the lore just to confuse book readers, is patently evil.
Thanks for another great video !
The two show runners remind me of the two swindlers in H.C. Andersen's story "The Emperor's New Clothes". Posing as weavers, they offer to supply the Emperor with magnificent clothes that are invisible to those who are stupid or incompetent. In the Rings of Power, it's the story that is invisible - there is just nothing there. And now the show runners have been revealed to be nothing but charlatans and amateurs.
Straight up I never watched one episode of this show for the specific purpose that they intended to ruin the lore.
I only know how the show goes because of Disparu. The more I learn, the more I'm happy I never watched it.
"Who's gonna fall for some hot god like being with gifts that can help you with your problems"
Yes. Who would fall for an attractive influencer type being pushing a product that can self help or be of use for quick and immediate access/gratification? Never heard of that before. Figures that have done/said bad things, are defended by a majority of people, and still receive support/good publicity, because people are willing to make excuses for them when they're attractive and playing into what they want to hear? Nah, not very applicable or believable nowadays.
Him saying that made me think that those two doofs are jealous of handsome men, lol. Between that quote and the fact their most conventional good looking leading man type cast member is playing the epitome of evil.
There's a weird level of subtext in the interviews that really paints JD and McCay as Sauron... "Galadriel doesn't have agency because Halbrand beckons to her question mark" Galadriel has no agency because these two wrote her to fit their narrative, rather than what TOLKIEN did... "It doesn't make sense that Sauron would come as Annatar, because that's too obvious." Too obvious in a time of Valar that a new Valar should suddenly show up? "We wanted it to be a surprise for those who have read the books." But you WANTED THE FUCKING NAME!
and they said in another interview (if i remember correctly) that it wasn't supposed to be a surprise. (I think as a defense when people said how bloody obvious it was).
Ever watch the movie THE PRODUCERS by mel brooks.
Pretty sure once they were denied the rights they said fuck it we gunna make dis gud /s
Sauron not being The Lord of Gifts is Jon Snow not killing The Night King because "it'd be too obvious" all over again.
Many who had already read the books still watched and enjoyed the PJ movies.
I can't believe these two chuckleheads actually exist as human beings.
Remember folks... These writers spent *TEN YEARS* pitching movie after movie after show after movie after show after movie... and not a single script was ever used, they have literally no accredations to their names... JJ ABRAHMS got them this job. These are the people who wanted to hide things in mystery boxes because they thought that 'knowing the story ahead of time as a reader of the books was bad.'
The showunners saying they deviated from canon in season 1 in order to follow canon in season 2 makes no sense.
Imagine this: you are tasked to bake a black forest cake and given a recipe to follow. If you followed the recipe, you'd end up with a black forest cake. If you went 'screw the recipe!' and chuck whatever ingredient caught your eye in the pantry, you'd end up with an unsalvageable mess. Now, suppose you went and tried making the cake using the latter method but changed your mind halfway and suddenly decided to start following the recipe. Would adding the correct ingredients into your existing batter fix your batter and result in a black forest cake? Of course not! You'd have to throw away your current batter and start over in order to make a black forest cake.
Rings of Power is the metaphorical screwed up black forest cake. Even if the showrunners were to start following Tolkien's canon, aka the recipe for the story, from this point onwards this show cannot be salvaged. Only an apology to the entire Tolkien fandom and a total reboot of the series can save Rings of Power.
They are the products of Abrams and the mystery box.
If they wrote the characters, then they should know the motivations of their creations. The way they are telling it, we're left with dolls performing actions and we, the audience, have to make up the story around the actions.
With Lindelhof working on the next Star Wars set of movies, we can expect to see more of it.
As an audience member, l shouldn't have to work so hard to like (or not like) something. That is what infuriated me the most about Prometheus.
And now that writing is still showing up in current media.
I'm out.
If Disney puts out more Star Wars movies, nothing says anyone needs to watch them.
The great thing about the original six Star Wars movies is that you have the option of either just viewing the movies and appreciate them as a complete body of work on their own, or, if you were curious about certain background character or locales or a throwaway line meant to further the plot, you could read about it in a novel or comic in the EU. Disney Star Wars REQUIRED you to do homework to fill in details of their shitty sequel trilogy which was by design. Why was the Galactic Republic’s Capitol on Hosian Prime and not on Coruscant? Read this book! What was the announcement of Palpatine’s return? Play Fortnite! It’s just an excuse for Disney to sell more crap.
We should all know by now: what eventually comes out of the mystery box is never very interesting, or worth the suspense.
Your analysis is far superior to any other I have seen online
I like how the showrunners hide behind Tolkien in defending their poor story choices, such as saying "a Tolkienian chance meeting" re Galadriel happening to bump into Sauron. Also- They say they didn't call him Annatar because they wanted to hide his identity. First, I will point out that GoT was also based on books, yet lots of people were still shocked when Ned Stark died. Second, the showrunners' use of cliches and modern touches, shall we say, made things predictable anyway. Even before that particular spoiler came out, Gary/Nerdrotic (and I'm sure others) took a look at the early trailers and said "That guy's a handsome white man, he must be Sauron." Might as well have just called him Annatar, lol!
And the Red Wedding was a massive shocker
When they brought up Titanic… 😂😂😂
Nearly at 100k subs!!! Totally deserved captain. Barry Norman would be very impressed with your prose. Your breakdowns of tv stuff is so on point with subtle whimsy. You stand out from a crowded crowd
Well the only good thing to come out of all of this, is alot of people revisitting the books and old movies.
Honestly I have seen people defend this show by saying that it's bringing in new fans who will read the books and such. All I can think when hearing that argument is "Well that's depressing isn't it? I mean those poor bastards are gonna be confused out of their minds when they do read the books and see that events and characters are completely different." If anything they're gonna try reading the books and after seeing that everything is so different they're probably gonna check out. I mean hopefully they'll forever forget about the show and stick with the books but I don't find that likely.
@@TheBelieveit1 But then they will have a rebirth and realize rop is shit but lotr is good. So it evens out in the end.
My God! They actually thought they could write Tolkien's story better than him. And then, after the giant turd they ended up creating, instead of flashing it down the toilet and hide were no one could find them,they are actually bragging about...🤯
Cuz these idiots never read Tolkien
The fact that they don't know what motivates their own characters (and it shows in examples beyond what they mention, such as in Isildur's motivations changing two more times over the course of four episodes) really shows that they have tried to take the mystery box approach to storytelling to the extreme. Not only are characters' identities mystery boxes; their actual characterization is a mystery box. "What motivates our characters? You decide. We can't be bothered to write it, even though we are paid a lot of money to do it and have been entrusted with this massive production."
Ya it's crazy how bad they are at all facets of storytelling. Like Galadriel is motivated by her brother's death. Ok, but why is she so driven by the death of a loved one in a war? All the elves lost friends and family in the war. Elrond, Gil-Galad, Celebrimbor... there's no reason why she should be suffering more than them. And they start the exposition in episode one by saying "the shadow spread across the world and the orcs multiplied and spread across middle earth. Then immediately change to "no one has seen any sign of sauron or his orcs in centuries." Like wtf. What motivates isildur's sister to want to stop the Numenoreans from sailing to middle earth? Who knows. It's just a train wreck from start to finish, and I'm amused and a little annoyed at all these people pretending it's an amazing show just because they've picked a side in the culture war and dug themselves in. If the nerd fanbase hadn't angrily rejected it, they would feel free to give honest criticism. I just can't believe that professional reviewers wouldn't acknowledge the terrible writing if they didn't feel obligated to defend 'their side' in this stupid culture war. Honestly the culture war is boring and I want to stay out of it l, but how can we when they're raping our childhood?
my brain hurts just trying to comprehend how theyve developed this show like this, theyre inexperienced sure, but was there no-one on this production asking those questions like What does motivate our characters?, or which characters are we meant to be playing ? I mean they literally said the female Frodo character they gave to the actress was a blank sheet, so she's developed it...by pretending to be a female Frodo, but this is insanity isnt it ?
Isildurs character had a motivation? He seemed entirely unmotivated. Couldnt even hold down a job for 2 hours. And then he gets another job handed to him by daddy because he screwed up, blew up a boat and lied about it. His character has 0 agency or purpose.
Mystery box storytelling is the most damaging thing to screenwriting to ever be conceived
4:19 No wonder that they teleported.
*[({R.G.)}]*
Imagine if the people who filmed the 2021 Dune thought, "Hey, everyone knows Dr Yueh is the traitor... what if, in OUR movie, we make Thufir the traitor! It'll keep things fresh for longtime Dune fans as well as new viewers! Genius!" Then proceeded to destroy Dune... No, instead they stuck with the actual story and made a beautiful movie.
These people are so incompetent its like they're caricatures. That in itself isn't remarkable, it's the billion dollars that makes it remarkable. How did these morons get vetted for this?
When they said back to the books they meant colouring books, but unfortunately they still haven't learnt to colour in the lines.
The good news is whatever mud they try to cast on Tolkien’s work, the original story stands whole and unblemished, and the fans did not cave to Hollywoke.
These showrunners are basically just admitting they are con artists and confidence men. The ROP is a real life version of THE PRODUCERS
Honestly, I am impressed! Every time I think that they can't be any more incompetent, then this, they just have to keep proving me wrong. I Would definetly given Darwin award for writers, if there was one.
In germany there is a yearly award for the worst shows/movies.
It's called the Golden Raspberry.
@@Grauer1510 That's just the German name for the Golden Raspberry Award aka. Razzie which gets its name from the expression "to blow a raspberry" or to make a fart-like sound with your mouth.
They are awarded the day before the Oscars.
If he didn’t know he was playing SAURON until after the second episode was filmed I think a salary renegotiation should be in order. I can’t believe this.
The same for the actress that plays GuyLadRielle, and she is paid less than many other actors. The "protagonist" more or less that is paid less
Which is odd considering that there are no “movie stars” in the series. They all should be paid about the same.
So effectively the audience knew he was playing Sauron before he did.
@@tcschenks they were all paid equally poorly, but some got less and some got more
Yeah, every single TH-cam channel was calling him Sauron from the very first episode.
"You think that people are going to watch this twice?!" That was perfect!
It's like they INTENTIONALLY took everything Tolkien valued and threw it into the garbage.
Have these guys ever studied classic litteratur or story writing on a higher level?
They got the "Titanic" wrong
They got "Paradise Lost" wrong
They got "Breaking bad" wrong
They got "the Sopranos" wrong
They got "MacBeth" wrong
*THEY DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND SHAKESPEARE!*
HOW DUFFED CAN YA BE!
Hell they will probably get "Winnie-the-Pooh" wrong
Have they the slightest clue what they are talking about? This is like watching a Carnival Bizarre married to "One Flew over the Cuckoo's nest" in a Lovecraftien nightmare
I think we all misunderstand the genius of those showrunners. They managed quantic writing guys. We should all be ashamed of ourselves for criticizing them and try to apprehend their cosmic talent.
Would love to see the showrunners deconstruct the show and its narrative elements with someone who isn't a complete shill. Diehard Tolkien lore masters would be ripping them a new A-hole.
they need to let a lot of shit out.
Nerdrotic would be awesome. Would never happen though.