It's not that reading a lot of books is bad - it's reading them non-critically that's unhelpful. Don't just read a book then go onto the next. If it fell flat, figure out why it didn't capture your interest and see if your book has similar issues, e.g. bland characters, scenes that aren't well anchored, expositional dialog, etc. If you really liked it, think about the elements that worked and if you can replicate those in your book. Do the same with movies. Sure, they're far more visual but they're great to study for how scenes work (or don't) because the break points are clearly delineated. Think about how you'd capture the essence of the backgrounds and characters since you can't visually show them to your audience.
Exactly. I think the key is to read with your reader's hat on and also your writer's hat on. Criticize, make notes; if something works for you, write some commentary why, same thing if it doesn't; imagine alternative scenarios, plot twists, character arcs; rewrite some scenes yourself as the fancy takes you. All this work will necessarily limit your reading since you take longer over each book but make it much more fun and productive. Honestly this is why I like ebooks so much better. Harder to do this with traditional books
I agree. Saying that these great writers give horrible advice is a bit arrogant. It's true that there is a survival bias and that you don't necessarily know what makes you a good writer, but introspective writers like J.K.Rowling and Neil Gaiman are very smart and they know their limitations. They don't perpetuate a writers meme without asking themselves if they agree with it. I'm a published writer and I too see the wisdom in reading a lot. It gives me something to compare my own writing to, and it gives me something to aspire to.
@andreasboe4509 You just confirmed that you are doing what he advises, though. You are reading critically. That's not what many new readers take away from "read a lot, write a lot"
@@bathos22 Story Grid said to study masterworks, but the commenters here are talking about learning from books of all quality levels. There's a lot to be learned from others' failures and partial successes :Ü™
The argument against the "Read a lot, Write a lot" argument is that there is no direction in the writing. There are a few parts that I have an issue with. While I haven't read the writing advice for many writers, Stephen King's "On Writing" was a book I was required to read in one of my Comp classes. While he did advise "Read a lot, Write a lot," he never claimed that this is all you need to be great. He said that if you wish to be a writer and don't read or write a lot, you will not have the tools to be a writer. No greatness was promised. Do keep in mind that I read this way back in 2002, so perhaps his advice has changed since. The guitar example could have worked, except you claimed someone would randomly play notes. Why not listen to a lot of music and try to replicate the songs? It's no different than reading a lot of books and slapping the keyboard and calling it writing. You did clarify that if you play a wrong note and don't know it, you'll improperly train yourself to play poorly. The intention is the most important thing. If a person wants to learn to play a guitar, they will seek out the tools they need to improve. Have a tuner to make sure the guitar is tuned correctly. Study a song until the notes are burned into their brain. Recording their playing so they can hear themselves. They'll know if it's wrong, and I agree that it's different with writing. It can be nearly impossible to tell if your writing missed the mark, so having someone give you feedback is a great help. Ultimately, I think you're dead set that people are just picking up random things, reading them, hitting random letters on their keyboard, and leaving the "writing" on the desktop. Writers are needy people. They need to share their stories. Sure, there are exceptions, but I doubt someone is taking the craft of writing seriously and not actively sharing their work for feedback. You made some excellent points, especially being deliberate in your writing, but this was a fifteen minute commercial for the Story Grid. That's fine, but at least own up to it upfront. You mention that we need feedback on our writing, and I wholeheartedly agree. The problem is, and I'm sure you have an article or video detailing this, how does one become a "Certified" editor? How do we know that their advice is valuable? Is it because they edited something that made a lot of money? Is that the only standard? If I remember correctly, a lot of writers whose works you may list as "Masterworks" died poor because despite writing great works, nobody was buying them. "Study Masterworks, Deliberately Practice Skills" is just "Read a lot, Write a lot" but with the same energy as people who feel "Comic Books" are beneath them, so they call them "Graphic Novels."
Exactly. Nothing stated here in this video is new or not already in very common practice. The big jab at calling seasoned feedback from great authors 'total BS', is just to grab attention for the product he's selling. All the author's mentioned have stated, read a lot/write a lot/and study. But somehow left that last part out. Definitely will be taking the credibility of this Story Grid with grains of salt.
You're not really engaging with Story Grid's core argumen, you're arguing with the semantics and metaphors. You even agree with SG's takeaways, but it seems like you're tilted because Story Grid pushes against a lot of your assumptions (writers share their work if they take their work seriously; read a lot, write a lot implies different reading strategies akin to what SG teaches; editors can achieve a certification that connotes their feedback's value). Earnestly suggest you use and get feedback on one of the SG tools on a piece of your writing. Just try it and resist the goblin voice in you that wants to fixate on semantic issues. You'll be a better writer for it.
One of my frustrations with this approach is that he’s ignoring the “lab work” you need to understand how these things come together. I’ll put it this simply, while it’s true that *blindly* writing isn’t going to help, there’s absolutely no way to get good at a skill you don’t actually practice regularly. Furthermore if you’re not able to produce at a reasonable rate, there’s little to critique and certainly nothing produced. And the other part is that especially if you’re even thinking about turning pro, the idea that you can write a scene a day is silly. You’d have to be much more productive. Which is where I think the write a lot is about.
This is exactly how you learn to write. You read a lot of great books and try to see what works on them and you write a lot and try to replicate and you read what you wrote. As long as you can critically read it, this is the best advice ever. Instead, a lot of people get stuck trying to learn techniques, watching a thousand videos and never write anything.
Writing 2000 words daily with no direction is the worst advice. You gotta learn the basics like plot structure. You gotta know how to deliver exposition and make strong turning point. It's ok to be slow
I found a way that worked for me in learning structure and plot and exposittion was a Bandon Sanderson guest lecturer taught how to write concisely through Flash Fiction pieces. As a way to help fine tune the skill of mastering structure, plot and exposition. It has helped me though I still struggle with a few things but over time I'll get better at it.
The problem with "learning plot structure" is that this is one element of writing that failed writers, and even some successful ones, tend to teach incorrectly. Because they'll say stuff like "Everything is a three act structure, because it has a beginning, middle, and end" and then they'll ramble on for 10-20 minutes without adding anything important. Even us non-writers sees this as absurd as every mathematical equation has three parts because there's a beginning, a middle, and an end. This is pointless advice, and doesn't help anyone beyond early elementary school writers. In other words, the way some define the "three act structure" is so vague and general that it's meaningless. The plot structure of books like Lord of the Rings, and even simplistic ones like Brave New World, are significantly more complex than "three acts" and while you can probably contrive the three act structure on them, congratulations, you've described about 0.01% of the plot structure and missed the point of the book.
You spent a lot of time saying what the great writers inferred in their original advice, which you hate. Read a lot (of great works and analyze how/why it works). Write a lot (and practice what you've learned). You came full circle to agree with this "bad advice."
As a writer myself who has written a lot, and read a lot, I think there is good and bad advice both in this video, and in that old adage (and for that matter, the misconception of How To be great at X lessons in general). I would be very tentative to listen to anyone who is telling young writers to not write a lot, for the same reason I would be tentative to tell a young artist to not draw a lot. I'll go ahead and even let slide the idea that these things ultimately are useful things to do because they are fun! (but that's a topic for another conversation). I absolutely agree that one should study great works, but ultimately, the point that is being missed here is that when you write a lot, you are training your mind to better intuit all of the necessary unconscious ways we improve in not just our craft, but our art of storytelling. The same goes for reading. Much of what you will learn in improving as a writer are things you are not necessarily conscious of (which is why great writers are great. They wrote at an early age and kept writing and reading, constantly). The greater truth though is that great writing can ultimately not be taught. You touched upon this, yet you also reinforced the very same misconception by the end. Just as one can read a lot, one can also study the masters and still not be a master. Let it be known that there is not a key to unlocking some way to get your readers engaged from start to end. Being great should not in this case be your aim, but rather your aim is to improve as much as you can each time you write. As both an artist and a writer I can tell you the best writers are not necessarily the most studied or the most talented, they are the ones who have learned to improve the most, and you improve the most by writing a lot. The surest way to improve is to simply keep writing, and keep reading, and learning your process, that once learned, can give you better insight on how to improve. Reading as much as you can allows you to facilitate greater influences, much of which you will find can bolster creative solutions and inspirations that you wouldn't have otherwise found. If you restrict your reading, you are restricting what could be necessary fuel for whatever project you're writing. You can also find this fuel in studying history, traveling, even watching films or playing video games. So in this case, that adage does a hold a lot of water. You can't rush greatness, you can't life hack yourself into figuring out what will be a great scene, there are so many ways that writing can be great, and there is no one way or one lesson into that greatness. That is the biggest misconception I find with this video and many others like it. To quote Dr. Malcolm from Jurassic Park, "Life finds a way." Only in this case, greatness finds a way, but it won't be through a piece of advice.
Actually, having been a professional artist for 11 years and having studied under one of the best art teachers in the country -- a founder of the NY academy of art who was handpicked by Andy Warhol -- I absolutely would say "just draw a lot" is bad advice to a young artist. Especially if they're trying to draw realistically. You have to train particular skill sets to become great at drawing and painting, and these are skills that actually conflict with our brain's natural image processing. A person who just draws a lot will never become a great master. Look at every great master artist and you'll see they weren't just working really hard on their own, rather, they studied under another skilled artist who taught them how to see. An amateur with no guidance drawing on their own can actually do more damage than good.
When I reflect on where I grew the most as a writer and a storyteller in my youth, it was in Roleplay forums for Wheel of Time fans (I was the co-creator of Fusion of the Towers board, for anyone who shares that distinct niche of the internet from nearly 20 years ago) I had to write to keep a rando's attention, resolve beats they provided inputs for, and steer our shared story towards agreed-upon crises using tropes we both recognized within the genre and the world/setting. All with very short feedback loops, and with lots of feedback within the fiction and out of character.
your point is: practice is not enough, how to practice does matter (quantity vs quality) "read a lot & write a lot" is still a valid recommendation. it is necessary but not sufficient. you just refine a recommendation.
I think the reason why a lot of top authors don’t give the best advice when it comes to writing and often leave the most important details on their process out of their lectures is because those secrets are what set them apart from everyone else. Same goes for an athlete who hides a part of his training routine. He doesn’t want his competitors to figure out a path to that same competitive advantage he’s gained. That’s why I’m always a bit skeptical when I hear famous authors give advice. Do they really want us to know all their secrets to their skillset? Doubt it. How much of that misdirection is subconscious versus deliberate is unclear but it makes sense why they give worse advice. They probably could give phenomenal advice if they didn’t think they had any special footing to lose. I find you kind of have to scrape the hidden gems from author to author to get at what an effective writing process is. Most are willing to give some of their secrets to success away but not everything
Why is it like this. People want to write cause it’s fun or the read and awesome story when they were young. All I want is to tell a great story that will be remembered decades later. Just one, I don’t want to be a continuous comercial fiction writer 😅.
Read a lot, write a lot is actually great advice. Does not mean it is the only tool that will help you, but it's a very powerful one. How do you find a masterwork to study without reading a lot? How do you compare your writing to those of others without reading a lot? Reading is the best way to unconsciously learn the nuances of writing that will help you in the long run. Using tools and studying will help you realize what you are doing wrong and will help you get better at tackling the known issues. But reading a lot will help you skip some of those mistakes in the first place, since it teaches you to write intuitively. The old advice is not to be taken at face value, and I feel that this video should have said that instead of the confusing and unhelpful advice to not read a lot.
"Shorten the feedback loop." Wow did this hit home. I'm sooo guilty of writing writing writing and only asking for feedback after I think I'm done. Thanks for another great video.
I have read thousands of novels and NFs because I love it. I now write full time so I don't have much head space to read for fun and when I do read it's mostly nonfiction. I still read craft books to continue developing my craft. I read a novel or two a month. I have 7 books in print and two more coming soon with more on the back burner and I still think a writer should read as much as possible. Repetition programs the brain, true, but thoughtful reading--reading as a writer--does a better job of improving one's craft. A writer's got to read but it's how we read that can make a positive difference. Study of the craft is most important.
Hey! I know a part of TH-cam is playing up the thumbnail and making a video clickbaity, and yes not all writing advice applies to everyone-but this is really horrible non-advice, especially if a brand new writer comes across this video. Reading a lot and writing a lot is NO WAY complete bullshit. Yes it’s great to study works and yes it’s important to deliberately practice your skills, but you can do those concurrently with reading a lot and writing a lot!! I agree that a quicker feedback loop is important but that doesn’t mean forgoing reading all the books or writing all the words. It means ASKING FOR FEEDBACK and getting beta readers-which I would argue is the BEST way to improve your writing. From my personal experience, reading a ton of short fiction and writing a ton of short fiction and getting critiques was the fastest way I improved my writing. That’s how I was able to sell hundreds of dollars of my short fiction. In my opinion, it’s better for a new writer to write 2,000 words than no words at all. It’s better to start somewhere than for a new writer to be even more overwhelmed at all the prerequisites to getting started. For me, yeah it’s important to be intentional about what you’re writing, but what about those writers who need to write a bunch of something to find out what they need? If a new writer only worries about skills and reads only their genre (which I also disagree with-you should be reading all kinds of works), that could evolve into a cyclical zone of only writing PERFECT writing, which is impossible. I can understand the little nuances you are suggesting, but the way this video is presented is poor advice and I hope new writers who watch this video aren’t sucked to just subscribing or paying you for things they could have done for free by reading and writing a lot.
One of the things I have found to be very helpful is repetition to an ad nauseum degree. Reading great books and reading them repetitively does wonders in helping you absorb the style. Writing helps you get what you have learnt and thought out onto a piece of paper. Reading is the input and writing is the output. You can't have great output if your input is garbage. So the content you read must be excellent, then your output (or writing) will have a chance.
Read a lot and write a lot. Yes it works. But only way it works is analyze the books you reading. What makes this work? What ways can this be improved? How did they develop the characters? What is important in this story? Break it down. Look at structure the author used to tell that story. And it takes years to learn the craft and it takes time to hone.
You don't need expert friends because (1) who can count on having expert friends and (2) your audience won't be experts either. You do need friends willing to read what you've written and willing to answer some basic questions.
This is why I liked the writers digest writng books. It broke everything down and you learned about the diffrent sections of writing: "Diloge, Descriptions, Scenes, Plot and Structure (Highly recormend that one) by James Scott Bell. I broke it all down and took notes, got into a writers group, classes, ect.
I've found over the years of reading randomly, I've ended up with specific authors because their way of writing feels natural and resonates with me. I'm not trying to imitate their style when I practice scenes. It's more like I'm letting their style show my own way if that makes sense
I read various works, from literary to commercial, and learn that each one has their own "mechanic": style, voice, craft while keeping the plot rolling. It also told me to focus on the content. Even with simple words you can tell epic and complex stories or funny scene without pun and juggling with words. I have no intention to become a professional writer.
Yes! This is something I have been struggling to wrap my mind around, and this video is a breath of fresh air! I have heard advice online telling me to basically ignore the classics because their language is outdated, or what they did then doesn't necessarily work today. But I've always had this little voice in my head saying, 'If these classics are so outdated and irrelevant , then why have they survived and continue to be read?' I am not going to write like Agatha Christie, of course, but I can certainly read her stuff and learn what it takes to write an engaging mystery. I could go on and on about this subject. Thank you for clearing the air!
There is a false premise here. I can't see any successful writer saying that reading a lot and writing a lot will make anyone a great writer. To say that unless you read widely and write regularly you will not become a good writer would make more sense. I have read work by people who can put words together well, but whose ignorance makes the effort futile. Indeed, you don't need to be good to be successful, I know an author who I won't name who is making a good living out of stuff that is so bad I can't bear to read it.
This is excellent advice. Just this year alone I have ditched four books due them being pretty bad or something I really was not interested in. That amounted to about two weeks of wasted time that could have been spent better studying something I love.
Writing is important. If you want to have a catalog of work, you need to write that catalog. Of course it’s better to know how to edit. Reading is good for you too, just as a hobby. But you gotta write to get stories out bruh
I always thought "read a lot, write a lot" was to help with inspiration, not how to write. I have always read a lot, and will always do. By doing that, I get ideas that are only brushed over in other books, or I might see things I would do different.
Wow! Thank you! I think that naturally I have been doing what you were saying in this videos, but I heard so many times about writing a certain amunt of words a day, and reading a lot too, that I kinda listened to the bad advice more that what my gut was telling me.
Having viewed countless vids, this presentation is the one that makes the most sense. I'm one one of those types doesn't read a lot. However, I do enjoy putting pencil to paper or attacking the keyboard. I'm in the early stages of my writer development. Even so, it made perfect sense for me to hone in on the genre I enjoy and learn from the greats rather than use the scatter gun approach. SUBSCRIBED.
The problem with reading a masterwork of the genre you want to write in is... I cant find one. There is no book that captures the English gangland "mafia" romance im trying to write. I can write a great exciting scene but the direction is unclear
I think a major mistake people make is trying to immediately start writing novels - understandable as that’s what most people want to do. But that is like trying to immediately play “Eruption” by Van Halen or “Flight of the Bumblebee” without learning the basics. For writing, the basics come from writing short fiction, short stories, or even essays. They’re works that can be done in a first or second draft within a week or two. Novels can take months or even years to do, and when you’re just ears deep into a novel, you’re making mistakes that you aren’t conscious of. Short fiction can help make the issues evident a lot easier. Whether you want to publish them or not, it’s essential practice and can help you understand pacing, character arcs, dialogue, and the value of word count a lot better than immediately trying to write the next Great American Novel. Short stories aren’t valued as highly as I think they should (both from amateurs and in the publishing industry at large). Writing them, especially writing different types of characters and stories, can help develop unique voices and styles so that every character doesn’t feel or sound the same. I take the “write a lot” advice as “practice. No matter what it is, practice writing. Think about what you’re writing and aim to improve it.” This also links to my opinion that handwriting a first draft is leagues more useful and better than typing everything from the get go.
Nicely done - excellent video. Concise and actionable. I did it all ass-backwards, writing a whole manuscript over the course of a year plus before I got any real feedback. Now I'm having to tear it back down to the studs and do my best to follow your advice.
This is an interesting video. The idea of being a great writer is subjective; however, writers are great readers, and a good part of being a writer is not the only factor. The advice writers give is okay; it should include other parts of the writing process. A person can be a great writer but not necessarily a great storyteller. Again, my belief is subjective. Reading is a part of the process of writing for writers, but another part is rewriting. It's a practice, and people aren't going around believing that they become great (subjective) writers. One could think that writing should be how someone practices playing an instrument. The reality is writers will write badly in the beginning and have self-reflection to see their mistakes to become better writers and possibly good storytellers.
oh yeah, i read the classics. i also read books which cover material similar to that which i do, and books i think my likely audience may have read before reading mine
I think writing is all about harmonizing - the writing aspect and the reading aspect. Because they are interlinked. And each genre has a masterwork that has something to express in terms of writing a scene. So isn't it better to have a diversity of scene writing skills in one's mind rather than being frozen in one. Also because writing ( especially fictional) is all about your own uniqueness , however flawed it may be in another's eyes. That being said, it is awesome to study a great masterwork. But , breadth is the breath of the being. Diversity in reading, opens our inner eye, our vision which is vital to being the Universal philosophical being that we aspire to be as writers, thinkers , poets , literary artists.. So, 🎉Cheers to the techniques and skills out there. And cheers to the Creative Unity of being a great literary artist.
Playing lots of golf alone won't make you a great golfer. But every great golfer golfs a lot. The same with writing. Yes, reading and writing a ton will not, alone, turn you into a great writer. But for damn sure, you certainly cannot be a great writer without reading a ton and writing a ton. The error these "survivors" make is in making the broad-brush statement without nuance or depth. But, at the baseline level, this advice is on point.
I'm a fan of this channel it's helpful in some ways. But a masterwork I have studied is Dracula and according to Story Grid this novel "doesn't work". Rules aren't everything I guess
I don't know anybody to share my garbage writing with and can't afford to pay readers =/ guess I'll just keep writing and go nowhere. Still having fun regardless.
It takes time and patience. Part of the problem is about impatience. We still need to study in the genres we are the most interested in if not al genres. Als o think the term study is a good term to use to discribe reading a lot. Also We need to drop the notion that people like Stephen King was in the cash right at the very first try. If traditionally published you'll experience rejections... a lot. Stephen King himself almost gave up on his first book if it wasn't for his wife digging it out and having him keep going. We have to as writers acknowledge that this is going to take time and that's ok. It's taken me 3 years to even improve in my own writing. (notice i said improve). But that caveat is i wrote almost everyday if not everyweek. Starting smaller is all so a good way for a newbie to learn the craft.
Cross genre reading has its place as well. If I’m doing sci-fi, I might want to put other things in there like romance, or mystery or horror elements. I can’t do that well unless I’m reading mysteries or romances or horror.
Why try and write a complete book without having fully mastered the art of writing a scene yet? Because a great scene can only exist in the context of a whole story. Character goals, misbeliefs, viewpoints on issues, foreshadowing, things that dialogue is supposed to hint at / subtext, all of that only works within the context of the story it is embedded in. A great scene in one story would make for a terrible scene in a different story. Without that surrounding context, any individual scene, no matter how masterfully written at a technical level, is just a bunch of random stuff happening. And any reader who perceives it as such has no reason to engage with that scene until the end. When I’m stuck on a scene, it’s almost always because something on a macro level of the story doesn’t work. Micro-level stuff in the individual chapter, like a cringeworthy line of dialogue, or some clunky line of prose, is something I can always go back to edit later. But I can’t edit a scene that doesn’t even exist yet. And I’ve identified what feels like “writer’s block” as often just being “I don’t really know why my character would do what I need them to do in this scene”, or conversely, “based on how my character would normally act, I don’t know how they would respond to this particular situation”. Those are the kinds of problems that prevent you from even getting started on a given scene, even when you have the overarching story clearly in mind.
As a horsewoman, I am reminded by a saying favored in dressage - Perfect practice makes perfect - Although this saying has been much misused by people who prefer to abuse their horses.
You win the secret prize of who would recognize those legos first. Shoot me an email at tim@storygrid.com with your mailing address and a couple books from storygrid.com/books and we’ll send them out to you!
that's how people do it intuitively is by having seen it a lot and practiced. maybe tiger woods still has a golf coach that's great, but he still practices and most likely watches the game too. surely there's talent involved too, but it gets better by watching, doing and yeah listening too
golf is a good way to relate with writing. it's an individual sport that doesn't come easily at first and you're kind of left to yourself to figure it out once learning the basics in some lessons. It requires learning some of the technique in the swing, practicing swinging and hitting straight. That's interesting you bring it up and it likely relates with other individual sports or activities or skillsets.
THANK YOU!!!!! Although I didn't need permission to not 'just read lots of books' this is validation, because you teach writing. You read developing work. Your advice has value. And something clicked when you talked about the woodworker. A lifetime ago, I went to Art School. Learning how to draw from life comes before painting, printmaking, everything. You do the core fundamental traditional skill building of perspective, lighting, shading, proportion etc. The difference between those who did the foundation work, and those that found an old car door, some spray paint, and shoved them together with a doll's head, was huge. I don't want to produce mayhem junkyard crap. I want my writing to hit the right way. To be a successful piece of work, as an artwork. Shortening feedback loop. Yes. I'm sharing this video in my writing group. VERY grateful that you make this information FOR FREE on TH-cam. I've been following my copy of Story Grid, but this video was the missing piece to the puzzle in my mind.
Before we get into it: I get it, you're selling your product, and this is partially a marketing push to sell a course. I respect the hustle, and if you can get people to purchase something you are personally passionate about that's amazing man, and more power to you. But the advice you're railing against is, in fact, essential advice for all writers. And here's why: The a priori assumption in this video is that people who want to be writers are already disciplined enough to be writing daily. I have not found that to be the case. Reading a lot and Writing a lot is valuable advice because most people who seek out writing advice in general *aren't* doing either of them. And if someone is, in fact, that disciplined, then there is a very high probability that they are taking other mindful steps to pursue their writing craft like joining writing groups, getting critique partners, reading their own work critically and learning about writing in tandem with their writing. But also, there is a lot of evidence that points to quantity being as much a factor towards greatness as quality: Looking at the raw output of the most famous writers and artists of our time will often show that they were producing huge quantities of work. And not all of it was good, either. A lot of their work was middling, or average quality, but the fact that they produced so much also gave them some out and out hits. Even accounting for Survivorship Bias, there is a strong positive correlation towards success in a creative field and pure output. And there's an obvious reason why that happens: the more you create, the better your instincts for creation becomes. You can iterate on past failures - or wrong notes - and try to make something better each time you do it. And even if you're not perfect at it, as long as you recognize that your work needs improvement, then you will always find ways to improve it as you iterate on it. Not only that, but when you don't treat creative acts with a dogmatic sense of good and bad, you might innovate and create something novel in your field. Ray Davies accidentally discovered guitar distortion by turning up his amp too loud on "You Really Got Me" and Hendrix liked that overdriven signal and experimented with it to great effect. Should someone study the craft? Yes. If you're a craftsman it is your job to refine it at every possible level. But if you can't be bothered to write regularly, how can you be expected to improve on things that will only remain theoretical?
I see one problem with your advice to take a book from the top of your genre. There are long-sellers (which are the books you mentioned) that are long-sellers because of one of two reasons: Either they are used as standards for writing classes and study, so a lot of people bought and read them - but that doesn't mean they are good and would reach a wide audience. The other reason is that they are classics. So people buy them to be able to claim they have read them, without actually reading (or liking) them. I would reccomend to search for a broad variety of books in your genre and on your topic. Go back in time, pick from a recent best-selling list, re-read something you've read in school. But read with your critical mind on. Take notes. What worked, what not? And even reading non-critically can help. I've actually never seen someone improve on their writing (or even thei attitude towards writning), who didn't read at least one or two books a year, regardless of genre. You will naturally try to emulate what you read, which helps you improve. Doing it unconciously will make the process slower, but it helps. That's also where your example falls apart. You listen to the music and try to emulate it. If you keep doing it, you will get better. Slowly, painfully slow even. But faster then by doing nothing. Still I agree with you that the advice typically is phrased in a non-helpful way. As all the short-hand advices are (Read a lot! Write a lot! Show, don't tell! Don't use adverbs! - none of this tells you WHY to do it).
I didn’t watch this but I’ve seen people say what’s in the title all the time. If you don’t understand the saying that doesn’t make it wrong. If you read a lot as a reader just to enjoy a book you won’t really grow as an author. Same way the average person that listens to a song won’t be able to play it on a piano. That doesn’t stop people from learning to play piano from listing to a song. The same with writers. Read it with intent. That is how you read books and become better writers.
@@haroldgoodman130 obviously you care enough to comment 😂 I don’t even remember this post at all, it’s been a month but when I comment on any post I don’t expect or care if I get a response. I’m just as entitled as you and everyone else to say my thoughts. Even if some ppl don’t care. or in your case, only care enough to leave their own comment about not caring. 😂
There's a lot of garbage out there. Reading it will make you write at a similar level. Which doesn't mean you can't be financially successful, if you can leverage a certain audience.
As Diana Gabaldon says, everything the writer knows is on the page. If you want to learn how they do something, read. There's a reason Hemingway read after each writing session as did Shelby Foote.
Best writing advice I have seen in many years. The transcript of this video should be tatooed on the skin of every aspiring writer out there. Thanks for having published it. Kudos!
STOP. 25 seconds into the video this dude states his FALSE premise. "Read a lot - Write a lot" does NOT refer to MASTERING ("leveling up your writing to that masterwork level" in his words) the art of writing. It refers to the FOUNDATION of becoming a writer. It is the starting point. There are many, many things we must do to Master the art of writing. I don't think I need to watch the rest of this video. He might remain consistent with his false premise, and I don't have time for that. Ciao, bella.
I don't agree you got to read 3000 books a year, everybody not the same, what works for one may not work for the other, God didn't make us all the same, find what works for you. That's plan and simple I can make it. 😊😊😊
Idk I think this video misses the point and is kind of soulless and therefore artless. You don’t read a lot because you will magically become a better writer, you read a lot because you love reading, and language and story. And as you read and breathe more stories, the rules and guidelines of storytelling, what works and what doesn’t will become as second nature to you as walking. Finally, you write a lot not because it will magically make you better - though it doesn’t hurt for sure - but rather because the demons will not let you do otherwise. I’d say that if you are watching this video, nodding along to this advice, you’re already doomed.
@stcarday9923 no, I did, but I now regret and recant and disavow it. I still believe what I said, mostly, but not as vociferously and aggressively as did yesterday-me with his negativity and absolute certainty about the total rightness of his opinions. Today-me is much more sanguine about the whole thing. And I mean, what does one expect from a channel called Story Grid, that they *won't* be kindof artificial and soulless. Nah, that's crazy. Truth is I was never the target for this video, but the algorithm threw it in my path. And now I've engaged with the video twice and doomed my suggestions for the next while. Ah well. Anyway, good luck with your writing, stranger. May your muses sing.
@@futureboy314 I find the Story Grid a little overcomplicated at times, but I agree with the premise of this video. The idea that "breathing stories until they are second nature" works to learn writing is romantic and all, but it leads people astray.
You are trying to place pillars in the subconscious bro, that's why you don't understand the advice given by successful writers. Indeed, one needs to learn writing skills, but you can't teach someone how to be creative. It can only be encouraged.
Finally, someone got on point of this stupid advice. Great writing is a matter of talent. Some have it, some simply don't. But, as you guide here, it can be achievable. Great work!
So glad you liked it but I don’t agree with this ➡️ “Great writing is a matter of talent. Some have it, some simply don’t.” More coming on that in future videos 😀
To be the devil's advocate, 'Read a lot, Write a lot' is not as bad an advice as is presented. Andrew Huberman explained how more reps in a low feedback environment will still lead to rapid skill gain, despite being wrong 90% times. Source for interested folks: How to Learn Skills Faster | Huberman Lab Podcast - Learning to Win, Every Time th-cam.com/video/xJ0IBzCjEPk/w-d-xo.html
It's not that reading a lot of books is bad - it's reading them non-critically that's unhelpful. Don't just read a book then go onto the next. If it fell flat, figure out why it didn't capture your interest and see if your book has similar issues, e.g. bland characters, scenes that aren't well anchored, expositional dialog, etc. If you really liked it, think about the elements that worked and if you can replicate those in your book. Do the same with movies. Sure, they're far more visual but they're great to study for how scenes work (or don't) because the break points are clearly delineated. Think about how you'd capture the essence of the backgrounds and characters since you can't visually show them to your audience.
Exactly. I think the key is to read with your reader's hat on and also your writer's hat on. Criticize, make notes; if something works for you, write some commentary why, same thing if it doesn't; imagine alternative scenarios, plot twists, character arcs; rewrite some scenes yourself as the fancy takes you. All this work will necessarily limit your reading since you take longer over each book but make it much more fun and productive.
Honestly this is why I like ebooks so much better. Harder to do this with traditional books
I agree. Saying that these great writers give horrible advice is a bit arrogant. It's true that there is a survival bias and that you don't necessarily know what makes you a good writer, but introspective writers like J.K.Rowling and Neil Gaiman are very smart and they know their limitations. They don't perpetuate a writers meme without asking themselves if they agree with it. I'm a published writer and I too see the wisdom in reading a lot. It gives me something to compare my own writing to, and it gives me something to aspire to.
@andreasboe4509 You just confirmed that you are doing what he advises, though. You are reading critically. That's not what many new readers take away from "read a lot, write a lot"
@@bathos22 Story Grid said to study masterworks, but the commenters here are talking about learning from books of all quality levels. There's a lot to be learned from others' failures and partial successes :Ü™
The argument against the "Read a lot, Write a lot" argument is that there is no direction in the writing. There are a few parts that I have an issue with.
While I haven't read the writing advice for many writers, Stephen King's "On Writing" was a book I was required to read in one of my Comp classes. While he did advise "Read a lot, Write a lot," he never claimed that this is all you need to be great. He said that if you wish to be a writer and don't read or write a lot, you will not have the tools to be a writer. No greatness was promised. Do keep in mind that I read this way back in 2002, so perhaps his advice has changed since.
The guitar example could have worked, except you claimed someone would randomly play notes. Why not listen to a lot of music and try to replicate the songs? It's no different than reading a lot of books and slapping the keyboard and calling it writing. You did clarify that if you play a wrong note and don't know it, you'll improperly train yourself to play poorly. The intention is the most important thing. If a person wants to learn to play a guitar, they will seek out the tools they need to improve. Have a tuner to make sure the guitar is tuned correctly. Study a song until the notes are burned into their brain. Recording their playing so they can hear themselves. They'll know if it's wrong, and I agree that it's different with writing. It can be nearly impossible to tell if your writing missed the mark, so having someone give you feedback is a great help.
Ultimately, I think you're dead set that people are just picking up random things, reading them, hitting random letters on their keyboard, and leaving the "writing" on the desktop. Writers are needy people. They need to share their stories. Sure, there are exceptions, but I doubt someone is taking the craft of writing seriously and not actively sharing their work for feedback.
You made some excellent points, especially being deliberate in your writing, but this was a fifteen minute commercial for the Story Grid. That's fine, but at least own up to it upfront. You mention that we need feedback on our writing, and I wholeheartedly agree. The problem is, and I'm sure you have an article or video detailing this, how does one become a "Certified" editor? How do we know that their advice is valuable? Is it because they edited something that made a lot of money? Is that the only standard? If I remember correctly, a lot of writers whose works you may list as "Masterworks" died poor because despite writing great works, nobody was buying them.
"Study Masterworks, Deliberately Practice Skills" is just "Read a lot, Write a lot" but with the same energy as people who feel "Comic Books" are beneath them, so they call them "Graphic Novels."
Exactly. Nothing stated here in this video is new or not already in very common practice. The big jab at calling seasoned feedback from great authors 'total BS', is just to grab attention for the product he's selling. All the author's mentioned have stated, read a lot/write a lot/and study. But somehow left that last part out.
Definitely will be taking the credibility of this Story Grid with grains of salt.
You're not really engaging with Story Grid's core argumen, you're arguing with the semantics and metaphors. You even agree with SG's takeaways, but it seems like you're tilted because Story Grid pushes against a lot of your assumptions (writers share their work if they take their work seriously; read a lot, write a lot implies different reading strategies akin to what SG teaches; editors can achieve a certification that connotes their feedback's value).
Earnestly suggest you use and get feedback on one of the SG tools on a piece of your writing. Just try it and resist the goblin voice in you that wants to fixate on semantic issues. You'll be a better writer for it.
On the other hand, the classics had no teachers. Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, the same Jay Austin learned from their mistakes
Sounds like you have a lot of perspective. Why not video your perspective and share with us?
One of my frustrations with this approach is that he’s ignoring the “lab work” you need to understand how these things come together. I’ll put it this simply, while it’s true that *blindly* writing isn’t going to help, there’s absolutely no way to get good at a skill you don’t actually practice regularly. Furthermore if you’re not able to produce at a reasonable rate, there’s little to critique and certainly nothing produced.
And the other part is that especially if you’re even thinking about turning pro, the idea that you can write a scene a day is silly. You’d have to be much more productive. Which is where I think the write a lot is about.
This is exactly how you learn to write. You read a lot of great books and try to see what works on them and you write a lot and try to replicate and you read what you wrote. As long as you can critically read it, this is the best advice ever. Instead, a lot of people get stuck trying to learn techniques, watching a thousand videos and never write anything.
Writing 2000 words daily with no direction is the worst advice. You gotta learn the basics like plot structure. You gotta know how to deliver exposition and make strong turning point. It's ok to be slow
I found a way that worked for me in learning structure and plot and exposittion was a Bandon Sanderson guest lecturer taught how to write concisely through Flash Fiction pieces. As a way to help fine tune the skill of mastering structure, plot and exposition. It has helped me though I still struggle with a few things but over time I'll get better at it.
The problem with "learning plot structure" is that this is one element of writing that failed writers, and even some successful ones, tend to teach incorrectly. Because they'll say stuff like "Everything is a three act structure, because it has a beginning, middle, and end" and then they'll ramble on for 10-20 minutes without adding anything important. Even us non-writers sees this as absurd as every mathematical equation has three parts because there's a beginning, a middle, and an end. This is pointless advice, and doesn't help anyone beyond early elementary school writers. In other words, the way some define the "three act structure" is so vague and general that it's meaningless. The plot structure of books like Lord of the Rings, and even simplistic ones like Brave New World, are significantly more complex than "three acts" and while you can probably contrive the three act structure on them, congratulations, you've described about 0.01% of the plot structure and missed the point of the book.
You spent a lot of time saying what the great writers inferred in their original advice, which you hate. Read a lot (of great works and analyze how/why it works). Write a lot (and practice what you've learned).
You came full circle to agree with this "bad advice."
Exactly!
As a writer myself who has written a lot, and read a lot, I think there is good and bad advice both in this video, and in that old adage (and for that matter, the misconception of How To be great at X lessons in general). I would be very tentative to listen to anyone who is telling young writers to not write a lot, for the same reason I would be tentative to tell a young artist to not draw a lot. I'll go ahead and even let slide the idea that these things ultimately are useful things to do because they are fun! (but that's a topic for another conversation). I absolutely agree that one should study great works, but ultimately, the point that is being missed here is that when you write a lot, you are training your mind to better intuit all of the necessary unconscious ways we improve in not just our craft, but our art of storytelling. The same goes for reading. Much of what you will learn in improving as a writer are things you are not necessarily conscious of (which is why great writers are great. They wrote at an early age and kept writing and reading, constantly). The greater truth though is that great writing can ultimately not be taught.
You touched upon this, yet you also reinforced the very same misconception by the end. Just as one can read a lot, one can also study the masters and still not be a master. Let it be known that there is not a key to unlocking some way to get your readers engaged from start to end. Being great should not in this case be your aim, but rather your aim is to improve as much as you can each time you write. As both an artist and a writer I can tell you the best writers are not necessarily the most studied or the most talented, they are the ones who have learned to improve the most, and you improve the most by writing a lot. The surest way to improve is to simply keep writing, and keep reading, and learning your process, that once learned, can give you better insight on how to improve. Reading as much as you can allows you to facilitate greater influences, much of which you will find can bolster creative solutions and inspirations that you wouldn't have otherwise found. If you restrict your reading, you are restricting what could be necessary fuel for whatever project you're writing. You can also find this fuel in studying history, traveling, even watching films or playing video games. So in this case, that adage does a hold a lot of water.
You can't rush greatness, you can't life hack yourself into figuring out what will be a great scene, there are so many ways that writing can be great, and there is no one way or one lesson into that greatness. That is the biggest misconception I find with this video and many others like it. To quote Dr. Malcolm from Jurassic Park, "Life finds a way." Only in this case, greatness finds a way, but it won't be through a piece of advice.
Actually, having been a professional artist for 11 years and having studied under one of the best art teachers in the country -- a founder of the NY academy of art who was handpicked by Andy Warhol -- I absolutely would say "just draw a lot" is bad advice to a young artist. Especially if they're trying to draw realistically. You have to train particular skill sets to become great at drawing and painting, and these are skills that actually conflict with our brain's natural image processing. A person who just draws a lot will never become a great master. Look at every great master artist and you'll see they weren't just working really hard on their own, rather, they studied under another skilled artist who taught them how to see. An amateur with no guidance drawing on their own can actually do more damage than good.
Your comment makes more sense. I agree 100% with you.
When I reflect on where I grew the most as a writer and a storyteller in my youth, it was in Roleplay forums for Wheel of Time fans (I was the co-creator of Fusion of the Towers board, for anyone who shares that distinct niche of the internet from nearly 20 years ago)
I had to write to keep a rando's attention, resolve beats they provided inputs for, and steer our shared story towards agreed-upon crises using tropes we both recognized within the genre and the world/setting.
All with very short feedback loops, and with lots of feedback within the fiction and out of character.
Yeah, roleplaying is a great way to hone your craft and learn what works.
your point is: practice is not enough, how to practice does matter (quantity vs quality)
"read a lot & write a lot" is still a valid recommendation. it is necessary but not sufficient. you just refine a recommendation.
I think the reason why a lot of top authors don’t give the best advice when it comes to writing and often leave the most important details on their process out of their lectures is because those secrets are what set them apart from everyone else. Same goes for an athlete who hides a part of his training routine. He doesn’t want his competitors to figure out a path to that same competitive advantage he’s gained. That’s why I’m always a bit skeptical when I hear famous authors give advice. Do they really want us to know all their secrets to their skillset? Doubt it. How much of that misdirection is subconscious versus deliberate is unclear but it makes sense why they give worse advice. They probably could give phenomenal advice if they didn’t think they had any special footing to lose. I find you kind of have to scrape the hidden gems from author to author to get at what an effective writing process is. Most are willing to give some of their secrets to success away but not everything
Why is it like this. People want to write cause it’s fun or the read and awesome story when they were young. All I want is to tell a great story that will be remembered decades later. Just one, I don’t want to be a continuous comercial fiction writer 😅.
So agree with this. I like the idea of using the master work to narrow the focus and understand what works. 💯
On the other hand, the classics had no teachers. Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, the same Jay Austin learned from their mistakes
Read a lot, write a lot is actually great advice. Does not mean it is the only tool that will help you, but it's a very powerful one. How do you find a masterwork to study without reading a lot? How do you compare your writing to those of others without reading a lot? Reading is the best way to unconsciously learn the nuances of writing that will help you in the long run. Using tools and studying will help you realize what you are doing wrong and will help you get better at tackling the known issues. But reading a lot will help you skip some of those mistakes in the first place, since it teaches you to write intuitively. The old advice is not to be taken at face value, and I feel that this video should have said that instead of the confusing and unhelpful advice to not read a lot.
"Shorten the feedback loop." Wow did this hit home. I'm sooo guilty of writing writing writing and only asking for feedback after I think I'm done. Thanks for another great video.
I have read thousands of novels and NFs because I love it. I now write full time so I don't have much head space to read for fun and when I do read it's mostly nonfiction. I still read craft books to continue developing my craft. I read a novel or two a month. I have 7 books in print and two more coming soon with more on the back burner and I still think a writer should read as much as possible. Repetition programs the brain, true, but thoughtful reading--reading as a writer--does a better job of improving one's craft. A writer's got to read but it's how we read that can make a positive difference. Study of the craft is most important.
Enjoy listening to your videos. However, not able to spend on workshops, thanks for good ideas and your experience.:-)
Hey! I know a part of TH-cam is playing up the thumbnail and making a video clickbaity, and yes not all writing advice applies to everyone-but this is really horrible non-advice, especially if a brand new writer comes across this video. Reading a lot and writing a lot is NO WAY complete bullshit.
Yes it’s great to study works and yes it’s important to deliberately practice your skills, but you can do those concurrently with reading a lot and writing a lot!!
I agree that a quicker feedback loop is important but that doesn’t mean forgoing reading all the books or writing all the words. It means ASKING FOR FEEDBACK and getting beta readers-which I would argue is the BEST way to improve your writing.
From my personal experience, reading a ton of short fiction and writing a ton of short fiction and getting critiques was the fastest way I improved my writing. That’s how I was able to sell hundreds of dollars of my short fiction.
In my opinion, it’s better for a new writer to write 2,000 words than no words at all. It’s better to start somewhere than for a new writer to be even more overwhelmed at all the prerequisites to getting started. For me, yeah it’s important to be intentional about what you’re writing, but what about those writers who need to write a bunch of something to find out what they need? If a new writer only worries about skills and reads only their genre (which I also disagree with-you should be reading all kinds of works), that could evolve into a cyclical zone of only writing PERFECT writing, which is impossible.
I can understand the little nuances you are suggesting, but the way this video is presented is poor advice and I hope new writers who watch this video aren’t sucked to just subscribing or paying you for things they could have done for free by reading and writing a lot.
One of the things I have found to be very helpful is repetition to an ad nauseum degree. Reading great books and reading them repetitively does wonders in helping you absorb the style. Writing helps you get what you have learnt and thought out onto a piece of paper. Reading is the input and writing is the output. You can't have great output if your input is garbage. So the content you read must be excellent, then your output (or writing) will have a chance.
Read a lot and write a lot. Yes it works. But only way it works is analyze the books you reading. What makes this work? What ways can this be improved? How did they develop the characters? What is important in this story? Break it down. Look at structure the author used to tell that story. And it takes years to learn the craft and it takes time to hone.
I’d so most people would love regular feedback on their work but don’t have expert reader friends with great editing skills.
You don't need expert friends because (1) who can count on having expert friends and (2) your audience won't be experts either. You do need friends willing to read what you've written and willing to answer some basic questions.
bruh this is just a 15-minute-long ad for Story Grid
This whole channel is an ad for Story Grid lol. Coyne is god of writing and we can only hope to achieve greatness through giving him $$$$$
You guys are the freaking best. I appreciate it. Thanks for being honest.
So in a nutshell: be specific.
This is why I liked the writers digest writng books. It broke everything down and you learned about the diffrent sections of writing: "Diloge, Descriptions, Scenes, Plot and Structure (Highly recormend that one) by James Scott Bell. I broke it all down and took notes, got into a writers group, classes, ect.
Thank you for the recommendation!
I've found over the years of reading randomly, I've ended up with specific authors because their way of writing feels natural and resonates with me. I'm not trying to imitate their style when I practice scenes. It's more like I'm letting their style show my own way if that makes sense
I read various works, from literary to commercial, and learn that each one has their own "mechanic": style, voice, craft while keeping the plot rolling.
It also told me to focus on the content. Even with simple words you can tell epic and complex stories or funny scene without pun and juggling with words.
I have no intention to become a professional writer.
Yes! This is something I have been struggling to wrap my mind around, and this video is a breath of fresh air! I have heard advice online telling me to basically ignore the classics because their language is outdated, or what they did then doesn't necessarily work today. But I've always had this little voice in my head saying, 'If these classics are so outdated and irrelevant , then why have they survived and continue to be read?' I am not going to write like Agatha Christie, of course, but I can certainly read her stuff and learn what it takes to write an engaging mystery. I could go on and on about this subject. Thank you for clearing the air!
This is an amazing video. Superb analysis. Thank you
Glad you liked it!
There is a false premise here. I can't see any successful writer saying that reading a lot and writing a lot will make anyone a great writer. To say that unless you read widely and write regularly you will not become a good writer would make more sense. I have read work by people who can put words together well, but whose ignorance makes the effort futile. Indeed, you don't need to be good to be successful, I know an author who I won't name who is making a good living out of stuff that is so bad I can't bear to read it.
This is excellent advice. Just this year alone I have ditched four books due them being pretty bad or something I really was not interested in. That amounted to about two weeks of wasted time that could have been spent better studying something I love.
Writing is important. If you want to have a catalog of work, you need to write that catalog. Of course it’s better to know how to edit. Reading is good for you too, just as a hobby. But you gotta write to get stories out bruh
I always thought "read a lot, write a lot" was to help with inspiration, not how to write. I have always read a lot, and will always do. By doing that, I get ideas that are only brushed over in other books, or I might see things I would do different.
Wow! Thank you! I think that naturally I have been doing what you were saying in this videos, but I heard so many times about writing a certain amunt of words a day, and reading a lot too, that I kinda listened to the bad advice more that what my gut was telling me.
Having viewed countless vids, this presentation is the one that makes the most sense. I'm one one of those types doesn't read a lot. However, I do enjoy putting pencil to paper or attacking the keyboard. I'm in the early stages of my writer development. Even so, it made perfect sense for me to hone in on the genre I enjoy and learn from the greats rather than use the scatter gun approach.
SUBSCRIBED.
I’m glad people are finally saying this
My understanding of the advice is that it’s vital that you read a lot and write a lot, but it’s not the whole story.
The problem with reading a masterwork of the genre you want to write in is... I cant find one. There is no book that captures the English gangland "mafia" romance im trying to write. I can write a great exciting scene but the direction is unclear
I think a major mistake people make is trying to immediately start writing novels - understandable as that’s what most people want to do. But that is like trying to immediately play “Eruption” by Van Halen or “Flight of the Bumblebee” without learning the basics. For writing, the basics come from writing short fiction, short stories, or even essays. They’re works that can be done in a first or second draft within a week or two. Novels can take months or even years to do, and when you’re just ears deep into a novel, you’re making mistakes that you aren’t conscious of. Short fiction can help make the issues evident a lot easier. Whether you want to publish them or not, it’s essential practice and can help you understand pacing, character arcs, dialogue, and the value of word count a lot better than immediately trying to write the next Great American Novel. Short stories aren’t valued as highly as I think they should (both from amateurs and in the publishing industry at large). Writing them, especially writing different types of characters and stories, can help develop unique voices and styles so that every character doesn’t feel or sound the same. I take the “write a lot” advice as “practice. No matter what it is, practice writing. Think about what you’re writing and aim to improve it.” This also links to my opinion that handwriting a first draft is leagues more useful and better than typing everything from the get go.
Great content, totally agree.
Great video. Thanks.
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is simple, clear, and wrong. H.L. Mencken
Nicely done - excellent video. Concise and actionable. I did it all ass-backwards, writing a whole manuscript over the course of a year plus before I got any real feedback. Now I'm having to tear it back down to the studs and do my best to follow your advice.
Love it!
Excellent advice.
I think I can write a symphony. All I have to do is listen to a bunch of symphonies and compose a lot of stuff.
Right?!
It is necessary but not sufficient.
This is an interesting video. The idea of being a great writer is subjective; however, writers are great readers, and a good part of being a writer is not the only factor. The advice writers give is okay; it should include other parts of the writing process. A person can be a great writer but not necessarily a great storyteller. Again, my belief is subjective. Reading is a part of the process of writing for writers, but another part is rewriting. It's a practice, and people aren't going around believing that they become great (subjective) writers. One could think that writing should be how someone practices playing an instrument. The reality is writers will write badly in the beginning and have self-reflection to see their mistakes to become better writers and possibly good storytellers.
I read in a selective manner. I do more living. And contemplating. And being ME.
Besides writing a great scene, what other skills do you think aspiring writers should focus on?
We actually have a list. I’ll talk about it in a future video.
oh yeah, i read the classics. i also read books which cover material similar to that which i do, and books i think my likely audience may have read before reading mine
Great advice.
I think writing is all about harmonizing - the writing aspect and the reading aspect.
Because they are interlinked.
And each genre has a masterwork that has something to express in terms of writing a scene.
So isn't it better to have a diversity of scene writing skills in one's mind rather than being frozen in one.
Also because writing ( especially fictional) is all about your own uniqueness , however flawed it may be in another's eyes.
That being said, it is awesome to study a great masterwork.
But , breadth is the breath of the being.
Diversity in reading, opens our inner eye, our vision which is vital to being the Universal philosophical being that we aspire to be as writers, thinkers , poets , literary artists..
So, 🎉Cheers to the techniques and skills out there.
And cheers to the Creative Unity of being a great literary artist.
Playing lots of golf alone won't make you a great golfer. But every great golfer golfs a lot. The same with writing. Yes, reading and writing a ton will not, alone, turn you into a great writer. But for damn sure, you certainly cannot be a great writer without reading a ton and writing a ton.
The error these "survivors" make is in making the broad-brush statement without nuance or depth. But, at the baseline level, this advice is on point.
I'm a fan of this channel it's helpful in some ways. But a masterwork I have studied is Dracula and according to Story Grid this novel "doesn't work". Rules aren't everything I guess
I don't know anybody to share my garbage writing with and can't afford to pay readers =/ guess I'll just keep writing and go nowhere.
Still having fun regardless.
It takes time and patience. Part of the problem is about impatience. We still need to study in the genres we are the most interested in if not al genres. Als o think the term study is a good term to use to discribe reading a lot. Also We need to drop the notion that people like Stephen King was in the cash right at the very first try. If traditionally published you'll experience rejections... a lot. Stephen King himself almost gave up on his first book if it wasn't for his wife digging it out and having him keep going. We have to as writers acknowledge that this is going to take time and that's ok. It's taken me 3 years to even improve in my own writing. (notice i said improve). But that caveat is i wrote almost everyday if not everyweek. Starting smaller is all so a good way for a newbie to learn the craft.
Thank you for making a video like this.
Cross genre reading has its place as well. If I’m doing sci-fi, I might want to put other things in there like romance, or mystery or horror elements. I can’t do that well unless I’m reading mysteries or romances or horror.
WOW I agree quality analytic reading
Stephen King just choked on his toast.😊
Excellent advice. I might even pass it on 😀
Ha! You should!
Flannery O'Connor showed up to her typewriter 3 hours a day. That's all she could do, dying slow-motion of lupis.
Why try and write a complete book without having fully mastered the art of writing a scene yet? Because a great scene can only exist in the context of a whole story. Character goals, misbeliefs, viewpoints on issues, foreshadowing, things that dialogue is supposed to hint at / subtext, all of that only works within the context of the story it is embedded in. A great scene in one story would make for a terrible scene in a different story. Without that surrounding context, any individual scene, no matter how masterfully written at a technical level, is just a bunch of random stuff happening. And any reader who perceives it as such has no reason to engage with that scene until the end.
When I’m stuck on a scene, it’s almost always because something on a macro level of the story doesn’t work. Micro-level stuff in the individual chapter, like a cringeworthy line of dialogue, or some clunky line of prose, is something I can always go back to edit later. But I can’t edit a scene that doesn’t even exist yet. And I’ve identified what feels like “writer’s block” as often just being “I don’t really know why my character would do what I need them to do in this scene”, or conversely, “based on how my character would normally act, I don’t know how they would respond to this particular situation”. Those are the kinds of problems that prevent you from even getting started on a given scene, even when you have the overarching story clearly in mind.
what you're doing is confusing necessary and sufficient conditions
As a horsewoman, I am reminded by a saying favored in dressage - Perfect practice makes perfect - Although this saying has been much misused by people who prefer to abuse their horses.
I'm not a Harry Potter fan, but I can appreciate you have Lego sets in your background. I love Lego bricks.
You win the secret prize of who would recognize those legos first. Shoot me an email at tim@storygrid.com with your mailing address and a couple books from storygrid.com/books and we’ll send them out to you!
@@StoryGrid Cool! I'll try and get that done by the end of the day.
So let me get this straight. Basically the advice here is to…read a lot and write a lot?
This is just good advice generally.
that's how people do it intuitively is by having seen it a lot and practiced. maybe tiger woods still has a golf coach that's great, but he still practices and most likely watches the game too. surely there's talent involved too, but it gets better by watching, doing and yeah listening too
golf is a good way to relate with writing. it's an individual sport that doesn't come easily at first and you're kind of left to yourself to figure it out once learning the basics in some lessons. It requires learning some of the technique in the swing, practicing swinging and hitting straight. That's interesting you bring it up and it likely relates with other individual sports or activities or skillsets.
THANK YOU!!!!! Although I didn't need permission to not 'just read lots of books' this is validation, because you teach writing. You read developing work. Your advice has value.
And something clicked when you talked about the woodworker. A lifetime ago, I went to Art School. Learning how to draw from life comes before painting, printmaking, everything. You do the core fundamental traditional skill building of perspective, lighting, shading, proportion etc. The difference between those who did the foundation work, and those that found an old car door, some spray paint, and shoved them together with a doll's head, was huge. I don't want to produce mayhem junkyard crap. I want my writing to hit the right way. To be a successful piece of work, as an artwork.
Shortening feedback loop. Yes. I'm sharing this video in my writing group.
VERY grateful that you make this information FOR FREE on TH-cam. I've been following my copy of Story Grid, but this video was the missing piece to the puzzle in my mind.
So glad it was helpful and I 100% agree with you
Before we get into it: I get it, you're selling your product, and this is partially a marketing push to sell a course. I respect the hustle, and if you can get people to purchase something you are personally passionate about that's amazing man, and more power to you. But the advice you're railing against is, in fact, essential advice for all writers. And here's why:
The a priori assumption in this video is that people who want to be writers are already disciplined enough to be writing daily. I have not found that to be the case. Reading a lot and Writing a lot is valuable advice because most people who seek out writing advice in general *aren't* doing either of them.
And if someone is, in fact, that disciplined, then there is a very high probability that they are taking other mindful steps to pursue their writing craft like joining writing groups, getting critique partners, reading their own work critically and learning about writing in tandem with their writing.
But also, there is a lot of evidence that points to quantity being as much a factor towards greatness as quality: Looking at the raw output of the most famous writers and artists of our time will often show that they were producing huge quantities of work. And not all of it was good, either. A lot of their work was middling, or average quality, but the fact that they produced so much also gave them some out and out hits. Even accounting for Survivorship Bias, there is a strong positive correlation towards success in a creative field and pure output.
And there's an obvious reason why that happens: the more you create, the better your instincts for creation becomes. You can iterate on past failures - or wrong notes - and try to make something better each time you do it. And even if you're not perfect at it, as long as you recognize that your work needs improvement, then you will always find ways to improve it as you iterate on it. Not only that, but when you don't treat creative acts with a dogmatic sense of good and bad, you might innovate and create something novel in your field. Ray Davies accidentally discovered guitar distortion by turning up his amp too loud on "You Really Got Me" and Hendrix liked that overdriven signal and experimented with it to great effect.
Should someone study the craft? Yes. If you're a craftsman it is your job to refine it at every possible level.
But if you can't be bothered to write regularly, how can you be expected to improve on things that will only remain theoretical?
That’s literally how Hendrix learned guitar
Good gods, man! Blink!!!
😂😳
I see one problem with your advice to take a book from the top of your genre. There are long-sellers (which are the books you mentioned) that are long-sellers because of one of two reasons: Either they are used as standards for writing classes and study, so a lot of people bought and read them - but that doesn't mean they are good and would reach a wide audience. The other reason is that they are classics. So people buy them to be able to claim they have read them, without actually reading (or liking) them. I would reccomend to search for a broad variety of books in your genre and on your topic. Go back in time, pick from a recent best-selling list, re-read something you've read in school. But read with your critical mind on. Take notes. What worked, what not?
And even reading non-critically can help. I've actually never seen someone improve on their writing (or even thei attitude towards writning), who didn't read at least one or two books a year, regardless of genre. You will naturally try to emulate what you read, which helps you improve. Doing it unconciously will make the process slower, but it helps. That's also where your example falls apart. You listen to the music and try to emulate it. If you keep doing it, you will get better. Slowly, painfully slow even. But faster then by doing nothing.
Still I agree with you that the advice typically is phrased in a non-helpful way. As all the short-hand advices are (Read a lot! Write a lot! Show, don't tell! Don't use adverbs! - none of this tells you WHY to do it).
I didn’t watch this but I’ve seen people say what’s in the title all the time. If you don’t understand the saying that doesn’t make it wrong. If you read a lot as a reader just to enjoy a book you won’t really grow as an author. Same way the average person that listens to a song won’t be able to play it on a piano.
That doesn’t stop people from learning to play piano from listing to a song. The same with writers. Read it with intent. That is how you read books and become better writers.
If you didn't watch the video then who cares what you think?
@@haroldgoodman130 obviously you care enough to comment 😂 I don’t even remember this post at all, it’s been a month but when I comment on any post I don’t expect or care if I get a response. I’m just as entitled as you and everyone else to say my thoughts. Even if some ppl don’t care. or in your case, only care enough to leave their own comment about not caring. 😂
There's a lot of garbage out there. Reading it will make you write at a similar level. Which doesn't mean you can't be financially successful, if you can leverage a certain audience.
As Diana Gabaldon says, everything the writer knows is on the page. If you want to learn how they do something, read. There's a reason Hemingway read after each writing session as did Shelby Foote.
Best writing advice I have seen in many years. The transcript of this video should be tatooed on the skin of every aspiring writer out there. Thanks for having published it. Kudos!
great video! respect to someone that loves modulars 😂
OMG THANK YOU!! I've always thought it was bs. I feel so validated!
Glad it was helpful!
STOP. 25 seconds into the video this dude states his FALSE premise. "Read a lot - Write a lot" does NOT refer to MASTERING ("leveling up your writing to that masterwork level" in his words) the art of writing. It refers to the FOUNDATION of becoming a writer. It is the starting point. There are many, many things we must do to Master the art of writing. I don't think I need to watch the rest of this video. He might remain consistent with his false premise, and I don't have time for that. Ciao, bella.
so read a lot write a lot is actually fine advice if you're not an idiot and realize you need to do both critically
11:08
Now you tell me. Lol.
You'd think that as writers, these big names you quoted would respect specificity enough to not give such generalized advice.
I don't agree you got to read 3000 books a year, everybody not the same, what works for one may not work for the other, God didn't make us all the same, find what works for you. That's plan and simple I can make it. 😊😊😊
What's the point of even writing anyway? AI is going to replace us writers too. Very soon. What's the point?
If that’s what you truly believe then it’s probably best that you just quit.
- Tim
Idk I think this video misses the point and is kind of soulless and therefore artless. You don’t read a lot because you will magically become a better writer, you read a lot because you love reading, and language and story. And as you read and breathe more stories, the rules and guidelines of storytelling, what works and what doesn’t will become as second nature to you as walking.
Finally, you write a lot not because it will magically make you better - though it doesn’t hurt for sure - but rather because the demons will not let you do otherwise. I’d say that if you are watching this video, nodding along to this advice, you’re already doomed.
@stcarday9923 no, I did, but I now regret and recant and disavow it. I still believe what I said, mostly, but not as vociferously and aggressively as did yesterday-me with his negativity and absolute certainty about the total rightness of his opinions. Today-me is much more sanguine about the whole thing. And I mean, what does one expect from a channel called Story Grid, that they *won't* be kindof artificial and soulless. Nah, that's crazy. Truth is I was never the target for this video, but the algorithm threw it in my path. And now I've engaged with the video twice and doomed my suggestions for the next while. Ah well. Anyway, good luck with your writing, stranger. May your muses sing.
@@futureboy314 I find the Story Grid a little overcomplicated at times, but I agree with the premise of this video. The idea that "breathing stories until they are second nature" works to learn writing is romantic and all, but it leads people astray.
You are trying to place pillars in the subconscious bro, that's why you don't understand the advice given by successful writers. Indeed, one needs to learn writing skills, but you can't teach someone how to be creative. It can only be encouraged.
Finally, someone got on point of this stupid advice. Great writing is a matter of talent. Some have it, some simply don't. But, as you guide here, it can be achievable. Great work!
So glad you liked it but I don’t agree with this ➡️ “Great writing is a matter of talent. Some have it, some simply don’t.”
More coming on that in future videos 😀
To be the devil's advocate, 'Read a lot, Write a lot' is not as bad an advice as is presented. Andrew Huberman explained how more reps in a low feedback environment will still lead to rapid skill gain, despite being wrong 90% times.
Source for interested folks:
How to Learn Skills Faster | Huberman Lab Podcast - Learning to Win, Every Time
th-cam.com/video/xJ0IBzCjEPk/w-d-xo.html