When the four data types were enumerated, we should say that the third, the interval data, allow for two main operations: 1.differences (or delta): 30 degrees minus 20 degrees = 10 degrees is a meaningful calculation; 2. Ratios of such differences. E.g. (50-30)/(30-20)=2 is meaningful in the way that it takes twice caloric energy to change a body’s temperature from 30 to 50 degrees than to change it from 20 to 30
@@returnexitsuccess Isn't it the same with his pH example? The pH scale is logarithmic, not linear, and it measures the concentration of hydrogen ions. So I got the feeling that it wasn't really the best example for what he was trying to say.
@@returnexitsuccess I am so furious with you because you taught me that Kelvin is not referred to with degrees. I hate this. I want to write 3° K. But because of you I won't. I'll write 3 K instead. Thanks a lot for ruining my day.
As a data analyst, a lot of people get really caught up in r and python. They are great tools for sure, but, if you have access to a database then nothing beats good old fashioned sql for sorting, cleansing and transforming and quick analysis.
Except sql and big data may be difficult to combine if there is more data than SQL is designed for, in those cases where your data Is stored in something like hadoop, you may not be able to produce a schema that allows you to utilize SQL.
@@HenrikDalsager fair point, my point is that no all data analysis involves such massive data sets and when discussing data analysis for new people sql should be mentioned also.
4:47 I think we CAN tell if a pH is double another one. A pH of 7 is exactly 10 times higher than a pH of 6 (i.e. the molar concentration of a hidrogen solution is 10 times higher).
Also.. about degrees Celsius, sure you can't dirrectly say that 100 is 2 times hotter than 50, but if you convert them to kelvin, you get 373 and 323, so indirrectly you can say that 100 degrees Celsius is 15% hotter than 50 right?
I'm a bit dissapointed that intro didn't continue for the whole "what is data?" video, with Mike holding up different things and asking "is this data?" for up to 12 minutes
Data analysis in Excel is generally not done because it has lots of quirks once you go deeply into the formula's, Microsoft has included a lot of bugs for the sole purpose of being backwards compatible. Things like dates and references introduce mistakes that are often hard to spot.
Isn't pH a ratio type but on a log scale. Yes, there is no "zero", but you can calculate what is double a pH value, or more easily what is ten times a given pH value.
This is two videos. Up to 5:24 you just can that and have it as a separate video. It's weird having been in computing and never having had it explained this way to me before. They didn't even teach this on my computer science degree. Before I say this video data to me was just anything in a format that enables it to be processed by machine. Because of that though, I'm suspicious: Does data really always fall neatly into one of these categories? Colours, for example, seem to fall into more than one: Yes, you can have nominal red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, yellow, white, but you can also have them stored as RGB values, or a HSV/HSB values. You can have it represented on a CIE graph, and you can have it as radiation frequencies. In the real world, does data really always fall neatly into one of the jars?
If you have a kind of interval data like pH, you can't say that pH 10 is twice as much as pH 5, ok. But pH is a kind of data that can be converted to ratio data (since pH = -log([H+])). So, in a sense, since you can't convert easily with a formula, pH itself might not be rational, but you could rationalize it with just a couple more steps.
It seems like the line between a nominal attribute and an ordinal one is a little blurry. I'd argue that you can order weather types by how conducive they are to outdoor activity (e.g., sunny > overcast > rainy).
You actually can determine what "double the pH" of something is, since pH is actually just the negative base ten logarithm of the concentration of hydronium ions. Edit: tl;dr it's ogarithmic, so double the pH is equal to pH*log2
Does ratio data necessarily have a linear scale? That is, is 2 necessarily half of 4? Some measures are expressed as a logarithm, such as the Richter scale, but having a zero that means there's none, so in this case Richter 6 is 10X Richter 5. Of course a logarithm can always be expanded to a unitary value, so my question is more about practicality.
Isn't all interval data also ratio? For example if you subtract the left most value in the interval representation to get the zero? Or is the problem here that you don't always know the left most variable, since you only know a sample that represents the underlying truth. I was just confused since he said that degrees Celsius is interval data, while it can be easily translated to Kelvin that is ratio data.
I'd also discern discrete and continuous data (for the lack of a better word). Discrete data: can take only certain values like Yes, No, Maybe ( 😁 ), integers. It makes no sense to calculate an arithmetic mean, aka average. Frequency counting is OK. A median is also appropriate. A typical misuse of actually discrete data is when they publish that the typical family has 2.3 children. WHAT? This includes nominal, ordinal, and interval data. Continuous data: I'd put the the data you mentioned as "ratio" in this group.
I realize you used temperature merely as an example of the interval data set type, but this particular measurement can be converted to a ratio data type (by converting C or F to K). Would there be any rational (pun intended) reason to do this?
I rewinded video and I think it's correctly placed in "interval data" category. It can't be used for ratios directly, though. If you divide pH 1 by pH 0, you get infinity - nonsensical answer. In order to get meaningful ratio, you must convert it to concentration of H+, then you get 0.1. However, you are now working with DIFFERENT numbers, which are now on ratio scale - their zero is "true".
Hexanitrobenzene that argument doesn’t hold. I could just as easily say if you divide 1 child by 0 children you an undefined result. That doesn’t mean it isn’t type of ratio data. The rational numbers themselves are ratios of integers and they also break if you try and have a ratio of anything over 0.
Are examples like this standardised or something? In my uni Databases course I made a decision tree for whether or not tennis would be played based on information like weather...
I don't think it's standardized, it's more like use the most basic algorithm that solves the problem for you and call it a day. In your case a decision tree solved your problem, and you called it a day.
I think the point is that you can't use pH for ratio directly, you must convert it to concentration of H+ ions. The same for degrees Celsius - there is a well known relationship between Celsius and Kelvin scales, however, degrees Celsius can't be used for ratios because their zero is "not true".
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Check out the full Data Analysis Learning Playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLzH6n4zXuckpfMu_4Ff8E7Z1behQks5ba.html
Please make a video where Mike is just going aroud the campus pointing on things, persons and asking the camera whether this is data ;)
HAAHHAHAHA THAT EDITING OF THE RACE IS AMAZING I LOVE THIS CHANNEL
thats one part of this channel i really admire
Freaking love Mike and Computerphile.
Shout out to Sean for saying "01" instead of "1" so that it sorts properly with episode "10".
That race animation was just pure gold! And as always - dr Mike Pound is great. Keep up the awesome work!
Computerphile doing what the best stats books couldn't do in a 10-minute video! Thanks a whole ton Mike! This is priceless for me!
You promised to use
I think he said he was going to try to, that's not a promise :P
When the four data types were enumerated, we should say that the third, the interval data, allow for two main operations:
1.differences (or delta): 30 degrees minus 20 degrees = 10 degrees is a meaningful calculation;
2. Ratios of such differences. E.g. (50-30)/(30-20)=2 is meaningful in the way that it takes twice caloric energy to change a body’s temperature from 30 to 50 degrees than to change it from 20 to 30
4:56 "Degrees kelvin"
*several physicists are typing*
returnexitsuccess , can’t you convert Celsius to kelvin and change it from interval to ratio?
@@raining1975 Yes you can, my comment was referring to the fact that Kelvin is not a "degree" scale, it is an absolute scale.
@@returnexitsuccess Isn't it the same with his pH example? The pH scale is logarithmic, not linear, and it measures the concentration of hydrogen ions. So I got the feeling that it wasn't really the best example for what he was trying to say.
@@returnexitsuccess I am so furious with you because you taught me that Kelvin is not referred to with degrees.
I hate this.
I want to write 3° K. But because of you I won't. I'll write 3 K instead.
Thanks a lot for ruining my day.
Don't forget the Rankin scale.
Mike. You are phenomenal. You explain like you understand, as you do. Clear and precise.
love the Netflix aproach of releasing the whole season at once
I know what to binge on tonight!
he's so upbeat it's hard to believe he's in academia
Fortunately I swallowed my drink before reading that comment.
@@MrCmon113 but why? Too much gritty disillusionment?
I love how much passuion he has, Mike is my favorite!
Toxic academics are the worst
@@ethank5681 They're the new 'normal'
As a data analyst, a lot of people get really caught up in r and python. They are great tools for sure, but, if you have access to a database then nothing beats good old fashioned sql for sorting, cleansing and transforming and quick analysis.
Except sql and big data may be difficult to combine if there is more data than SQL is designed for, in those cases where your data Is stored in something like hadoop, you may not be able to produce a schema that allows you to utilize SQL.
@@HenrikDalsager fair point, my point is that no all data analysis involves such massive data sets and when discussing data analysis for new people sql should be mentioned also.
MapReduce != SQL
its great to know that an 11 min video taught me more about statistics than my stats module did...
cleared up a lot of confusion they left me with xD
Now I kinda want to know avarage hex value of people's favorite colors
Or just the average wavelength/frequency
This is excellent, thanks Dr Mike Pound and Computerphile! Really looking forward to drilling into this.
I can imagine him going around campus asking about random objects: "is this data?"
"What's wrong with Dr. Pound?"
- Nothing, he's just like that
You need a Udemy course, Mate. You are an excellent teacher. You get into the minds of people.
What is Data? Our cat is Data. Lieutenant Commander Data is his full name.
Thanks for this series on Data Analysis!
4:47 I think we CAN tell if a pH is double another one. A pH of 7 is exactly 10 times higher than a pH of 6 (i.e. the molar concentration of a hidrogen solution is 10 times higher).
Also.. about degrees Celsius, sure you can't dirrectly say that 100 is 2 times hotter than 50, but if you convert them to kelvin, you get 373 and 323, so indirrectly you can say that 100 degrees Celsius is 15% hotter than 50 right?
@@Lightn0x This is what I was wondering too. If you can convert an interval feature to a ratio feature so trivially then what's the point?
If you make a course - I will probably sign up to that platform and go through it, because I love the channel and I love how people talk about things.
Well Thankyou doctor.. I don't understand at all when my teacher explain. But now I understand.. THANKS A LOT
I'm a bit dissapointed that intro didn't continue for the whole "what is data?" video, with Mike holding up different things and asking "is this data?" for up to 12 minutes
People are gonna have a field day counting the 'data's in this playlist
Proudly supported by thinkpad :D
NOIR data types (nomrinal ordinal interval, and ratio):
I don't know why, but every time i see Dr. Pound i just want him to have the best life possible. So charismatic.
Nice series. Hope to see more like this on many topics.
Data analysis in Excel is generally not done because it has lots of quirks once you go deeply into the formula's, Microsoft has included a lot of bugs for the sole purpose of being backwards compatible. Things like dates and references introduce mistakes that are often hard to spot.
The beginning of this video is very good out of context
Thank you for the great learning series. How can I get the csv files for this lesson and each lesson?
Isn't pH a ratio type but on a log scale. Yes, there is no "zero", but you can calculate what is double a pH value, or more easily what is ten times a given pH value.
I came here to say the same thing. I think you're right
"Is This Data?" shouldve been an absurd comedy skit on the Eric Andre Show or something
Data is a Lieutenant Commander on the USS Enterprise-D
This is two videos. Up to 5:24 you just can that and have it as a separate video.
It's weird having been in computing and never having had it explained this way to me before. They didn't even teach this on my computer science degree.
Before I say this video data to me was just anything in a format that enables it to be processed by machine.
Because of that though, I'm suspicious: Does data really always fall neatly into one of these categories? Colours, for example, seem to fall into more than one: Yes, you can have nominal red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, yellow, white, but you can also have them stored as RGB values, or a HSV/HSB values. You can have it represented on a CIE graph, and you can have it as radiation frequencies.
In the real world, does data really always fall neatly into one of the jars?
He should've held up a picture of Data from Star Trek at the beginning. Is this data?
If you have a kind of interval data like pH, you can't say that pH 10 is twice as much as pH 5, ok. But pH is a kind of data that can be converted to ratio data (since pH = -log([H+])). So, in a sense, since you can't convert easily with a formula, pH itself might not be rational, but you could rationalize it with just a couple more steps.
won't negative wind mean no atmosphere?
It seems like the line between a nominal attribute and an ordinal one is a little blurry. I'd argue that you can order weather types by how conducive they are to outdoor activity (e.g., sunny > overcast > rainy).
Awesome channel
Massive missed opportunity was not holding a pic of Commander Data... “is this data??”
Are the datasets used in this series available for download if you want to follow along? I can't find a link in the description...
I was really hoping he would hold a picture of Brent Spiner in the beginning
Data is a character in Star Treck
Is this data?
No...
This is... SPARTAAAA
Pretty sure I asked this same question during Star Trek: First Contact.
Omg... Sean Riley has the same name as my Data Anonymous sponsor.
Thanks. Bro
You actually can determine what "double the pH" of something is, since pH is actually just the negative base ten logarithm of the concentration of hydronium ions.
Edit: tl;dr it's ogarithmic, so double the pH is equal to pH*log2
This is good.
Does ratio data necessarily have a linear scale? That is, is 2 necessarily half of 4? Some measures are expressed as a logarithm, such as the Richter scale, but having a zero that means there's none, so in this case Richter 6 is 10X Richter 5. Of course a logarithm can always be expanded to a unitary value, so my question is more about practicality.
9:02: Do R dataframes start at 1? 😨
Your name is absolutely relevant.
Everytime I open a video in this channel, I got trapped in it.!! 😍
I see Dr. Pound, I click faster than *data*
negative wind is just wind in the opposite direction
Is it possibly to analyze logarithmic data? Like decibels?
You are awesome
Can I use primary and secondry data together
Isn't all interval data also ratio? For example if you subtract the left most value in the interval representation to get the zero? Or is the problem here that you don't always know the left most variable, since you only know a sample that represents the underlying truth.
I was just confused since he said that degrees Celsius is interval data, while it can be easily translated to Kelvin that is ratio data.
Is NOIR considered an exhaustive list?
Question is Am i data?
Are we data? :o
We are all data biologically speaking. Some sources prompt somewhere around 150 Zettabytes (10^21) of data. And I guess it's mostly nominal one))
can we get the course files, so that we can follow along?
I'd also discern discrete and continuous data (for the lack of a better word). Discrete data: can take only certain values like Yes, No, Maybe ( 😁 ), integers. It makes no sense to calculate an arithmetic mean, aka average. Frequency counting is OK. A median is also appropriate. A typical misuse of actually discrete data is when they publish that the typical family has 2.3 children. WHAT? This includes nominal, ordinal, and interval data.
Continuous data: I'd put the the data you mentioned as "ratio" in this group.
0°C + 273.15 = 273.15K
?
Oh look, Mike Pou- CLICK
well you can't have less than -273.15 degrees celsius so wouldn't that make it ratio if kelvin is?
What is data is a question. How do you collect your data is another question.
I realize you used temperature merely as an example of the interval data set type, but this particular measurement can be converted to a ratio data type (by converting C or F to K). Would there be any rational (pun intended) reason to do this?
The example of pH isn't a good one. There is a mathematical difference between each number in the scale.
I rewinded video and I think it's correctly placed in "interval data" category. It can't be used for ratios directly, though. If you divide pH 1 by pH 0, you get infinity - nonsensical answer. In order to get meaningful ratio, you must convert it to concentration of H+, then you get 0.1. However, you are now working with DIFFERENT numbers, which are now on ratio scale - their zero is "true".
Hexanitrobenzene that argument doesn’t hold. I could just as easily say if you divide 1 child by 0 children you an undefined result. That doesn’t mean it isn’t type of ratio data. The rational numbers themselves are ratios of integers and they also break if you try and have a ratio of anything over 0.
I love g-easy teaching
Are examples like this standardised or something? In my uni Databases course I made a decision tree for whether or not tennis would be played based on information like weather...
I don't think it's standardized, it's more like use the most basic algorithm that solves the problem for you and call it a day. In your case a decision tree solved your problem, and you called it a day.
why cant we calculate the mean of Ordinal data? But we can for Interval?
why does mean temperature make sense but mean star rating not?
3:01 "The Rimmer experience"
2:30 I think Safiya Nygaard would beg to differ 😂
Finally
Problem with a series on big data, drop all the vids at once and the algorithm hides them all.
I don't understand why can't Celsius be considered ratio if there is a 0 C ? Why would it be wrong to say 20 C is twice as hot as 10 C?
Ruilin Lin because that would imply you can say how much hotter 10° is compared to -10°.
The math works out to -1, but that doesn't make any sense.
Mike, Red > Blue.
What *ARE* Data! Data is plural. Datum is singular.
Im happy because? that peter parker have the same Portatil like my portatil thinkpad t470
Right?
7:38 Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Extreme winks
The real question is: what is Numberwang?
3:00
What are data?
isn't the ph table a ratio
So what IS data?
ones and zeroes!
There! I just saved you 12 minutes.
godsend
8:00 even the pros can't avoid those r syntax errors : )
WHAT IS DATA
excited to see 54 year old John running down the wing
tsk tsk Dr Pound didn't know that pH is a logarithmic scale.
I'm sure he does? What minute?
I think the point is that you can't use pH for ratio directly, you must convert it to concentration of H+ ions. The same for degrees Celsius - there is a well known relationship between Celsius and Kelvin scales, however, degrees Celsius can't be used for ratios because their zero is "not true".
@@Hexanitrobenzene You're confusing this with Fahrenheit
@@userou-ig1ze
How so ? 0 degrees Celsius is 273,15 degrees Kelvin, the molecules still have a fair amount of thermal energy.
Its just me or get the feeling that he thinks Python is nos free... made me double check after many years using it
ikr
its not what is data, its who is data ;)
Someone please get the man a better pen.
Huh ? But the wavelength are.. oww.. ok :'(
Perhaps “What are data?” would be the more appropriate question…
I am data.
The mean temperature is 0K ? What? ;)
Did Toni Kroos become a computer scientist?