Not only would this rail corridor connect to HSR but, more importantly, it would greatly enhance mobility in Kings/ Tulare counties for better access to colleges, hospitals, and shopping in Visalia as well as hospitals and shopping in Hanford. Hanford and Visalia have their own local bus networks. Increased mobility would greatly increase employment and educational opportunities for these two counties. This is a relatively simple shovel-ready project since the ROW is already there, cleared, and owned. It's also relatively cheap to build. I don't understand the 30 year timeline. This could be built in its totality in a couple of years. This line doesn't need HSR to be useful. Service could already be serving the communities by the time HSR is complete.
For less than 500 million dollars, this project feels like a bargain. Hopefully, they will build this sooner rather than later, and that they will build some decent TOD along the corridor.
The Cross Valley Corridor is a great way to mitigate some of the loss of service to towns currently served by San Joaquins. Also, really hope that the Republicans don’t take away the HSR and BLW phased grant money if they win the presidency in 2024 like Trump did when he took office.
I really hope CAHSR can get its first trains to begin testing in Summer 2028 to coincide with the Olympics in LA. Even if they won’t be carrying passengers, just to have them running by then is still an achievement worth pursuing. It’ll be interesting to see if Brightline West will really be able to go from breaking ground to revenue trains in about 4 1/2 years time. If that five years lead time for high speed trains is accurate, then that means even if Brightline West gets all the construction done by 2028, enough trains won’t be ready by then.
That's funny. I made the same comment a couple of weeks ago about having test trains running during the Olympics, and how it would be a great promotional opportunity for tourists to see. Maybe resulting in them returning 2 years later to use the HSR train. Great minds think alike. 🙂
Thank you for explaining the status chart and making it specifically clear as to why the $3B is a big deal. No others go through these project reports in such a way, as far as I know. So thanks for that!
Once this is built to Visalia, there will be a lot of incentive to restart passenger service from Fresno to Visalia through Sanger, Reedley and Dinuba. I grew up in that area and good lord do they need passenger rail. The tracks are already there, they just need to rebuild the stations.
I'm so thrilled about the $3 billion. Didn't realize how close Bakersfield-Merced is to being fully funded!! Re: Cross Valley Corridor... I have a bad feeling that this will have low ridership like the 91/Perris Valley Line. Serves communities where everyone owns a car and is happy to use a car for all their transportation needs.
But the implication is that if they do it right, it would be more practical and convenient to use rail to connect with HSR. And it would definitely more convenient for people visiting these towns. I have a friend who bought a townhouse in Visalia earlier this year after living in the LA area. Using rail to visit him instead of driving would be great. And vice-versa for him to visit me in LA.
Not everyone in that corridor owns a car, and if you think of the high speed rail as an alternative to flying, it would be far faster to take the Cross Valley to Kings-Tulare Station and then take HSR to San Francisco or Los Angeles
It's really a funding issue. If they got a $500 million grant up front, they could open this in ~5 years. Instead, we fund these things incrementally, $20 million a year for a few decades. (The same issue applies to the larger HSR project as well).
One settlement that appears to be left out of this is Tulare city itself. It does lie on the UP rail road, so perhaps a separate track can be built in the same right of way and connect up at Goshen.
the heavy rail make sens only if it is used by actual HSR train set that just hop on the CasHSR. In France Some small size cities around 2.5k habitants gets TGV running at slow speed until they reach the HSR infrastructure, but as the end rail is heavy enough they can accommodate the TGV so it reduce the numbers of transfer.
Honestly, in tandem with the HSR and Cross Valley, I still think the San Joaquin should run down to Bakersfield to connect the cities and towns that won't have those services. But now what would you call the leftover segments? The Bay Area Train? The Sacramento Valley Line? Do you think they'll turn into Commuter lines similar to ACE and CalTrain? I don't know. just some thoughts that go through my head when I hear about closures Also, for the Bay Area segment, I understand that since Stockton is serviced by ACE, and BART ends in Antioch, but don't forget Modesto and Merced are only serviced by Amtrak and getting to the northern part of The Bay is more annoying going in a circle than a straight shot.
The Bay Area to Merced Segment will stay in operation. They're simply rerouting the capacity of current San Joaquins to serve the Sacramento better. So yes, the San Joaquins will become a quasi-commuter train, more like the Capitol Corridor. And I think that that's a pretty good deal honestly. The Sac metro area has a 2.4 million population. That's 200k more than the Vegas metro area! It is a giant city and metro and deserves a lot more rail transit. Especially since California seems determined to turn most of that rail transit into high-quality regional rail!
I agree. If you consider HSR with San Joaquin, it's akin to an Express and Local service, especially if they did the transfers right. I do think HSR is adding too many stops. What they could also do is junction the San Joaquin with the Cross Valley, so you get Huron to Merced and Bakersfield to Porterville with a transfer available in Hanford. They should junction everything anyway for operational flexibility, but that will probably need some eminent domain.
@@PDXLibertarian What do you mean by "too many stops"? CAHSR literally only has stops in the five largest metro areas in the Central Valley. Which by the way is a legal requirement and was a condition for the funding to be allocated in the first place.
@@PDXLibertarian From my German POV, the amount of stops look nothing abnormal. I otherwise agree that cutting the San Joaquins is a pity especially since the only services which do get cut when a HSL gets build in other places are intercity trains, not regional(-ish) trains.
Who cares about correct pronunciation of city names. He is a Californian and he is attempting to comprehensively and thoroughly deal with issues and problems associated with the high speed rail development undertaken by the California High Speed Rail Authority. Anybody else want to do that? I didn't think so. Thank you, AmpereBEEP.
The plans for the Cross Valley Corridor are... quite slow, tbh. Like, not even construction on the line when the station opens. 18:40 That's a weird list in that multiple things are listed together of too different categories. Like, BRT and other modes (i.e. maglev) are nothing to talk about but then the choices are light and heavy rail (both of which come in multiple forms), followed by a type of train (especially because light rail almost always uses multiple units) and then a train operation which can be both light and (more commonly) heavy rail (and of course, can use both locomotives and multiple units).
It would be ironic if Hanford and Visalia had regional rail before Fresno, Bakersfield, or Stockton, but an existing railroad with three trains a week is a great start. Sprinter, in my neighborhood, is popular and is faster and more reliable than alternative bus service, because it does not share any roads with cars and trucks. It runs twice an hour most of the day and night, and the fare is the same as regular NCTD bus routes.
I think a branch line towards Tulare would be nice. Tracks are in place and there is enough space for a station. Might not be very useful for the commute between Tulare and Visalia but would be a great feeder for high speed and the commute towards Hanford
Private rail is a scam. Running it like a business compeltely defeats the purpose of public transit and serves only to funnel public funds into private business.
Instead of terminating at Huron on the western side of the planned alignment, it should be studied if the tracks can be extended a little further to the I-5 Highway, where a bus station (and park and ride) could be built, near a rest stop. This could allow passengers the opportunity to take public transportation as an always available option and increase the attractiveness of housing in the area, attracting investment and jobs into the area.
Kings/Tulare is a dumb idea. HSR should have been routed through Hanford or (preferably) Visalia. Hanford already has rail running through the town to minimize the disruption. However, Visalia seems to be the economic center of gravity for the area and would have made the HSR a much better alternative to SR-99 for intercity travel for the population of 125K+.
My understanding is that the Authority wanted to stick the existing rail corridor, and run right through the middle of Hanford, but Hanford fought them on it. So they went around.
They originally wanted to go through Hanford but they refused. IIRC Visalia actually wanted HSR but it was determined infeasible for some reason, so what is being planned now is the compromise.
@@adianchowdhury9016 There are many reasons for this. First of all, Visalia is pretty far off from the original alignment that CAHSR wanted, which was smack through the middle of Hanford. Hanford blocked it so they had to go around the town, but going to Visalia is a pretty crazy detour to be making. Second, the Visalia proposal came with some interesting shenanigans. Both Hanford and Visalia are heavily Republican areas. Hanford also originally said that they wanted the project. But after wasting a ton of planning money they turned against the project. Visalia was setting up to become the second delay trap on the same stretch of track so CAHSR opted out of dealing with them. Let's not forget that this is the area that has generated a majority of engineered delays and cost overruns for CAHSR. A courtesy of the local Republican politicians. I cannot fault CAHSR for not believing them for a second. This was only natural.
Like the one who corrected the Visalia pronunciation, thank you for correcting the whole 'Goshen' thing. Sounds like 'ocean' but with a 'g' at the start.
How much of the construction costs are all these overpasses for rural roads? It seems like they going to great expensive to make sure auto-traffic isn't minorly inconvenienced.
For the Cross Valley project? It didn't sound like it included any new grade separations, only rehabs for existing bridge structures. They'll undoubtedly need to install new grade crossing equipment, but that expense is fairly minor.
They have to have HSR be totally grade separated. This is standard practice worldwide. 110 mph is the fastest in the US that a train can go through a grade crossing.
@@compdude100 The Cross Valley Corridor project is not HSR (although it will offer a transfer opportunity to the HSR project). It's regional rail at typical American railroad speeds.
Funding and logistics. Plus, the main ridership generator, CAHSR is almost a decade away. But let's not forget that this is a phased project. So this is more of a visioning roadmap for the development of regional transportation in an area that is expected to need it in a couple of decades. It's not a project that was needed yesterday. It's a project that will be needed tomorrow and the state rail transit planners are already doing the planning for. Which is exactly the correct way to do this and how this is done in the sane places with good transit!
Good thought. Higher speed 125 mph diesel trains are cost effective now and for the next 25 years. They would be a big improvement for lots of places by increasing the average speed from 40-55 mph (ordinary trains) to 65-80 mph. Then, in 2050, a more or fully high speed rail electric system could become operatational with new electric 220 mph trainsets on the existing ROW's faster upgraded, dedicated tracks.
The cross valley corridor should be exempted from Positive Train Control. $60 million for a system that only runs 3 freight trains a week and is likely to only run a few trains a day makes no sense.
And it would break down catastrophically a week after it was built like all the Chinese projects do. Remember that leaning tower in SF? Guess who built it! Remember the "exploding bolts" on the new span of the Bay Bridge? Guess who was building that project!
@@TohaBgood2What about Chinese labor for the 55 miles of CAHSR tunnels? They did it before for the Central Pacific RR in the 1860s and beyond, such as a favorite route ... the Altamont Pass.
Ya and they would acquire all the land by police force and disappear any one who resisted. This is a democratic nation we let people speak and we compensate people when we mist take from then.
Not only would this rail corridor connect to HSR but, more importantly, it would greatly enhance mobility in Kings/ Tulare counties for better access to colleges, hospitals, and shopping in Visalia as well as hospitals and shopping in Hanford. Hanford and Visalia have their own local bus networks. Increased mobility would greatly increase employment and educational opportunities for these two counties.
This is a relatively simple shovel-ready project since the ROW is already there, cleared, and owned. It's also relatively cheap to build. I don't understand the 30 year timeline. This could be built in its totality in a couple of years. This line doesn't need HSR to be useful. Service could already be serving the communities by the time HSR is complete.
For less than 500 million dollars, this project feels like a bargain. Hopefully, they will build this sooner rather than later, and that they will build some decent TOD along the corridor.
Imagine if the automotive and airline industries weren't fighting it.
@@haydentravis3348 They're not, because it's not a threat.
@@richardrose2606 Because they're fighting it, dorkass.
@@richardrose2606 They bought the rail lines to destroy them.
The Cross Valley Corridor is a great way to mitigate some of the loss of service to towns currently served by San Joaquins. Also, really hope that the Republicans don’t take away the HSR and BLW phased grant money if they win the presidency in 2024 like Trump did when he took office.
Better hope they don’t win the presidency, then.
@@teuastYeah, they're not being coy. Please vote blue.
I really hope CAHSR can get its first trains to begin testing in Summer 2028 to coincide with the Olympics in LA. Even if they won’t be carrying passengers, just to have them running by then is still an achievement worth pursuing.
It’ll be interesting to see if Brightline West will really be able to go from breaking ground to revenue trains in about 4 1/2 years time. If that five years lead time for high speed trains is accurate, then that means even if Brightline West gets all the construction done by 2028, enough trains won’t be ready by then.
Does Brightline get to order trains from abroad because it’s a private company?
@@HahlenMaybe, but they probably won't be able to use any of the $3 Bn federal money to buy them.
That's funny. I made the same comment a couple of weeks ago about having test trains running during the Olympics, and how it would be a great promotional opportunity for tourists to see. Maybe resulting in them returning 2 years later to use the HSR train.
Great minds think alike. 🙂
@@mrxman581l have suggested running a CAHSR trainset on the peninsula even before the valley's hsr revenue service.
Thank you for explaining the status chart and making it specifically clear as to why the $3B is a big deal. No others go through these project reports in such a way, as far as I know. So thanks for that!
Once this is built to Visalia, there will be a lot of incentive to restart passenger service from Fresno to Visalia through Sanger, Reedley and Dinuba. I grew up in that area and good lord do they need passenger rail. The tracks are already there, they just need to rebuild the stations.
Phase 4? 🤞
Great to see that this plan is now in motion! And great update and feature video! Thank you, Amp!
I'm so thrilled about the $3 billion. Didn't realize how close Bakersfield-Merced is to being fully funded!!
Re: Cross Valley Corridor... I have a bad feeling that this will have low ridership like the 91/Perris Valley Line. Serves communities where everyone owns a car and is happy to use a car for all their transportation needs.
But the implication is that if they do it right, it would be more practical and convenient to use rail to connect with HSR. And it would definitely more convenient for people visiting these towns.
I have a friend who bought a townhouse in Visalia earlier this year after living in the LA area. Using rail to visit him instead of driving would be great. And vice-versa for him to visit me in LA.
Not everyone in that corridor owns a car, and if you think of the high speed rail as an alternative to flying, it would be far faster to take the Cross Valley to Kings-Tulare Station and then take HSR to San Francisco or Los Angeles
I was highly intrigued until I saw the timeline... 25+ years to open a
It's really a funding issue. If they got a $500 million grant up front, they could open this in ~5 years. Instead, we fund these things incrementally, $20 million a year for a few decades. (The same issue applies to the larger HSR project as well).
The Cross-Valley Corridor plan sounds like it's relatively low cost, low risk, and could be super beneficial for the central valley and CAHSR.
you should do a video on valley link rail, another project which is supposed to connect the east bay to Livermore
I will definitely look into that!
This is a nice little project. Brightline would do it in a year. Tempo, tempo, tempo. So bundle it in to one request and get it done.
One settlement that appears to be left out of this is Tulare city itself. It does lie on the UP rail road, so perhaps a separate track can be built in the same right of way and connect up at Goshen.
the heavy rail make sens only if it is used by actual HSR train set that just hop on the CasHSR. In France Some small size cities around 2.5k habitants gets TGV running at slow speed until they reach the HSR infrastructure, but as the end rail is heavy enough they can accommodate the TGV so it reduce the numbers of transfer.
Honestly, in tandem with the HSR and Cross Valley, I still think the San Joaquin should run down to Bakersfield to connect the cities and towns that won't have those services. But now what would you call the leftover segments?
The Bay Area Train? The Sacramento Valley Line? Do you think they'll turn into Commuter lines similar to ACE and CalTrain? I don't know. just some thoughts that go through my head when I hear about closures
Also, for the Bay Area segment, I understand that since Stockton is serviced by ACE, and BART ends in Antioch, but don't forget Modesto and Merced are only serviced by Amtrak and getting to the northern part of The Bay is more annoying going in a circle than a straight shot.
The Bay Area to Merced Segment will stay in operation. They're simply rerouting the capacity of current San Joaquins to serve the Sacramento better. So yes, the San Joaquins will become a quasi-commuter train, more like the Capitol Corridor. And I think that that's a pretty good deal honestly.
The Sac metro area has a 2.4 million population. That's 200k more than the Vegas metro area! It is a giant city and metro and deserves a lot more rail transit. Especially since California seems determined to turn most of that rail transit into high-quality regional rail!
I agree. If you consider HSR with San Joaquin, it's akin to an Express and Local service, especially if they did the transfers right. I do think HSR is adding too many stops. What they could also do is junction the San Joaquin with the Cross Valley, so you get Huron to Merced and Bakersfield to Porterville with a transfer available in Hanford. They should junction everything anyway for operational flexibility, but that will probably need some eminent domain.
@@PDXLibertarian What do you mean by "too many stops"? CAHSR literally only has stops in the five largest metro areas in the Central Valley. Which by the way is a legal requirement and was a condition for the funding to be allocated in the first place.
@@PDXLibertarian From my German POV, the amount of stops look nothing abnormal. I otherwise agree that cutting the San Joaquins is a pity especially since the only services which do get cut when a HSL gets build in other places are intercity trains, not regional(-ish) trains.
I was just thinking about this last week
Who cares about correct pronunciation of city names. He is a Californian and he is attempting to comprehensively and thoroughly deal with issues and problems associated with the high speed rail development undertaken by the California High Speed Rail Authority. Anybody else want to do that? I didn't think so. Thank you, AmpereBEEP.
The plans for the Cross Valley Corridor are... quite slow, tbh. Like, not even construction on the line when the station opens.
18:40 That's a weird list in that multiple things are listed together of too different categories. Like, BRT and other modes (i.e. maglev) are nothing to talk about but then the choices are light and heavy rail (both of which come in multiple forms), followed by a type of train (especially because light rail almost always uses multiple units) and then a train operation which can be both light and (more commonly) heavy rail (and of course, can use both locomotives and multiple units).
It would be ironic if Hanford and Visalia had regional rail before Fresno, Bakersfield, or Stockton, but an existing railroad with three trains a week is a great start. Sprinter, in my neighborhood, is popular and is faster and more reliable than alternative bus service, because it does not share any roads with cars and trucks. It runs twice an hour most of the day and night, and the fare is the same as regular NCTD bus routes.
Vie-sail-yuh and Go-shin
I think a branch line towards Tulare would be nice. Tracks are in place and there is enough space for a station. Might not be very useful for the commute between Tulare and Visalia but would be a great feeder for high speed and the commute towards Hanford
Especially for the World Ag Expo, it would make a world of difference.
Would love to see you cover Brightline West when they start building it
Private rail is a scam. Running it like a business compeltely defeats the purpose of public transit and serves only to funnel public funds into private business.
Gilroy CA is forgotten or left out of the map, Merced CA is always mentioned
Oh, and electrify it. Duh!
Instead of terminating at Huron on the western side of the planned alignment, it should be studied if the tracks can be extended a little further to the I-5 Highway, where a bus station (and park and ride) could be built, near a rest stop. This could allow passengers the opportunity to take public transportation as an always available option and increase the attractiveness of housing in the area, attracting investment and jobs into the area.
Good idea.
Go-shen.
I dont quite understand why they wouldnt go for light rail ish EMUs instead of DMUs, especially because of the street running part
Visalia is pronounced vye-SAIL-ee-ah, FYI.
Thank you for the pronunciation information!
I’ve heard both ways, but most say vye-SAIL-ee-ah
Came here to say that :P
Thanks for saying what I wanted to say. Damn you, 24.
Once an section is completeld, rails should be laid down right away not left without tracks being laid
Kings/Tulare is a dumb idea. HSR should have been routed through Hanford or (preferably) Visalia. Hanford already has rail running through the town to minimize the disruption. However, Visalia seems to be the economic center of gravity for the area and would have made the HSR a much better alternative to SR-99 for intercity travel for the population of 125K+.
My understanding is that the Authority wanted to stick the existing rail corridor, and run right through the middle of Hanford, but Hanford fought them on it. So they went around.
They originally wanted to go through Hanford but they refused. IIRC Visalia actually wanted HSR but it was determined infeasible for some reason, so what is being planned now is the compromise.
I think it would be a lot harder and costly to find a station location for Visalia
@@adianchowdhury9016 There are many reasons for this. First of all, Visalia is pretty far off from the original alignment that CAHSR wanted, which was smack through the middle of Hanford. Hanford blocked it so they had to go around the town, but going to Visalia is a pretty crazy detour to be making.
Second, the Visalia proposal came with some interesting shenanigans. Both Hanford and Visalia are heavily Republican areas. Hanford also originally said that they wanted the project. But after wasting a ton of planning money they turned against the project. Visalia was setting up to become the second delay trap on the same stretch of track so CAHSR opted out of dealing with them.
Let's not forget that this is the area that has generated a majority of engineered delays and cost overruns for CAHSR. A courtesy of the local Republican politicians. I cannot fault CAHSR for not believing them for a second. This was only natural.
Goshen is pronounced "GŌ-shin" with a long O sound
Like the one who corrected the Visalia pronunciation, thank you for correcting the whole 'Goshen' thing. Sounds like 'ocean' but with a 'g' at the start.
Thank you for your assistance with pronunciation information!
How much of the construction costs are all these overpasses for rural roads? It seems like they going to great expensive to make sure auto-traffic isn't minorly inconvenienced.
It's about ensuring full grade seperation which ensures CHSR can operate safely & at full speed.
For the Cross Valley project? It didn't sound like it included any new grade separations, only rehabs for existing bridge structures. They'll undoubtedly need to install new grade crossing equipment, but that expense is fairly minor.
They have to have HSR be totally grade separated. This is standard practice worldwide. 110 mph is the fastest in the US that a train can go through a grade crossing.
@@compdude100 The Cross Valley Corridor project is not HSR (although it will offer a transfer opportunity to the HSR project). It's regional rail at typical American railroad speeds.
@@DavidCiani I know that the Cross Valley Corridor isn't HSR, but it wasn't clear if the original comment was talking about that or HSR in general.
Gōshen not goshen
vai sail lia
That's not a complicated project. Why would it take 30 years? Ridiculous!
Funding and logistics. Plus, the main ridership generator, CAHSR is almost a decade away. But let's not forget that this is a phased project. So this is more of a visioning roadmap for the development of regional transportation in an area that is expected to need it in a couple of decades. It's not a project that was needed yesterday. It's a project that will be needed tomorrow and the state rail transit planners are already doing the planning for. Which is exactly the correct way to do this and how this is done in the sane places with good transit!
Diesel trains in 2050😭
Good thought. Higher speed 125 mph diesel trains are cost effective now and for the next 25 years. They would be a big improvement for lots of places by increasing the average speed from 40-55 mph (ordinary trains) to 65-80 mph. Then, in 2050, a more or fully high speed rail electric system could become operatational with new electric 220 mph trainsets on the existing ROW's faster upgraded, dedicated tracks.
why is bro saying goshen like that
SoCal resident try to pronounce a Central Valley name challenge impossible
@@AmpereBEEP at least you got visalia pretty right, most people that aren't from here mess it up
@@AmpereBEEP but for future reference, you say it like ocean but with a g obviously
The cross valley corridor should be exempted from Positive Train Control. $60 million for a system that only runs 3 freight trains a week and is likely to only run a few trains a day makes no sense.
Maybe you missed the 30 - 60 minute headways bit; that's each direction. For a single track railroad, that actually makes for a busy track.
CAHSR is a complete boondogle. Passenger revenue will never be able to cover operating costs, let alone long-term maintenance.
That is why regular passenger rail was abandoned in the 1950's.
Lol 30 years out. The Chinese would have this running in 2 years.
If it were a highway project it would be done years go. Car Brain CalTrans
And it would break down catastrophically a week after it was built like all the Chinese projects do. Remember that leaning tower in SF? Guess who built it! Remember the "exploding bolts" on the new span of the Bay Bridge? Guess who was building that project!
@@linestepprCalTrans was where the CEO of CAHSRA Brian kelly came from in 2018. lol.
@@TohaBgood2What about Chinese labor for the 55 miles of CAHSR tunnels? They did it before for the Central Pacific RR in the 1860s and beyond, such as a favorite route ... the Altamont Pass.
Ya and they would acquire all the land by police force and disappear any one who resisted. This is a democratic nation we let people speak and we compensate people when we mist take from then.
Visalia is pronounced "Vye-SAIL-ee-ya
Just what I 'Orange Cove native' was going to say. Thanks.
Also, in that vein GO-shin - GOE-shin