While Ryobi might very well be over-estimating the capacity, another thing you completely looked over is how capacity falls depending on current draw. If you discharge those batteries more slowly (like on their soldering iron, or the jobsite fan), chances are you will get a runtime closer than the theoretical calculations. However, if you use higher drain tools like a big drill or the blower, you'll get less capacity, since the higher current flow means more power will be lost to heat within the battery as well as any cables or contacts.
Yes! Thank you! I was going down the comments to see if there was anyone who understood simple physics! There is no "100% efficient" anything out there. There are ALWAYS losses in friction, resistance ect. The extra power that was "missing" actually was spent by being turned into heat. I think that the battery performed as advertised.
You stated the obvious with the amount of draw depending on what you are using. I wouldn't say he completely overlooked it. You can do the maths yourself if you know what tool or equipment you need. In this example he used a blower. The video still provides the information required to understand the batteries capabilities. Unless your a complete numbnut, which your comment will help the numbnuts out there. Cheers
Yes, but breakdowns of the batteries, to look at the actual cells contained within, often show that the cells themselves have a lower max capacity than is actually being advertised.
This is basically battery abuse. Asking the battery to output TWELVE AMPS for the entire time? A 1.5Amp hour battery is designed to run for an hour at 1.5 amps (technically, 1C) or 1A for 1.5 hours (0.66C). It is not designed to run at 12A (6C, 6 times as fast a discharge rate), and I'm amazed it put that out for any length of time at all.
A battery that runs continually gets hotter (power loss) and will deliver less energy the hotter it gets. Conversely, starting an electrical motor has a higher draw than on that is already spinning. A test involving shorter runs would simulate real world use more accurately and give you numbers closer to the theoretical rating listed on the battery. All that said, I enjoyed the video and appreciate your effort. You have earned a like and subscribe, sir.
@@Kitearmy Is it going to give my brushless impact driver more POWER if i use a 5ah instead of my 2.5ah, meaning actual torque/power for better performance?
I absolutely loved how you broke that down plus the incorporation of the amp meter into this video was absolute genius! If you sell me a pen for $300, I will buy it. You are simply that good 😊
1x viewer.....glad I found you channel. I was questioning the 1.5 Ah vs. 4.0 Ah Ryobi batteries for a tool comparison (the Reciprocating Saw, in particular). Your video was perfect, albeit using a different tool here. Your humor/delivery system and explanations are too cool. Thank you sir!!!
While my Dewalt 60 volt right angle drill is the king of the Category I just can’t justify that price level on every tool and the Roybi Hand drills and Saws hold up well in hard Industrial use and the new 6 amp battery’s really sealed the deal
I get the cost thing...but I in my experience I never felt that any Ryobi tool I used was capable of hard industrial use. Very cool that they work great for you.
@ Kite Army: Yep...just ordered 2 of the the 9ah batteries @ Home Depot...a "Special Buy" item presently (given the Holiday Season I suppose) but still pricey: A 2-pack for $159.99. Plan to use the largeer-capacity batteries for any cordless "benchtop" Ryobi tools I get. -- BR
I think that was a fairly good test, definitely good for anyone not familiar with the complexity of volts and amps and amp hours. How I will say that technically it's probably not Ryobi overstating the amp hours as pretty much all brands buy cells from Samsung, LG, Sanyo or Sony. I imagine they simply repeat the manufacturers capacity specs. Also something to consider is you will always get less runtime the faster you discharge the pack. Heat has a lot to do with it as heat is not only created by energy that's not turned into current but it also causes the cells and circuits to work less efficiently. I would think that if the manufacturer tests the capacity with a half an amp or maybe 1 amp load they might get the full rated capacity before the low voltage cut off kicks in. With that said your test was very good in a real world sense, but you'll probably find very similar results out of a higher end battery.
Good explanation- really good. But I am curious. So, what's the step up platform for another 50 bucks? Do you mean a higher voltage battery platform? You mean the Ryobi 40v blower?
came across this video looking into some homeowner tools. Left feeling more prepared for my Basic Electricity A&P class that im about to take. Thank you sir for this.
Thanks, your video was very helpful. It explained why my battery time ran so short. I have a 18v, 4Ah battery in the Ryobi One+ mower, it lasted about 7 minutes.
I'm pretty sure that goes for all major brands - after all, for example Ryobi, MIlwaukee, AEG and Ridgid are all owned by the same HK company. By the way, what a relief to hear good background music, instead of the usual grating noise most other channels have !
Remember, voltage drops during the test. It changes all the numbers. The batteries are not misrepresented the way you're saying. In fact they usually read above their factory rating. Also a 12 amp draw is a bit extreme. Most of those cells are rated at X amps at 1c rate. I've tested dozens and they're within 5%.
12amp is extreme but that is not uncommon for cordless blowers - you are right about the the c rating. If better cells were used and they had higher c rate they would perform better. Perfect example of how Ryobi cuts costs - Good point mate :)
Cool test. But I can also imagine the capacity is related to the amp draw. 1A 10hour doesn't promise 10A 1hour. Would be a more complete test if cover different amp draws.
There is a lot more to it. The amount of current we can really draw from a battery is limited. For example, a coin cell that is rated for 1 Ah can't actually provide 1 Amp of current for an hour, in fact it can't even provide 0.1 Amp without overextending itself. However, a 1Ah coin cell has no problem providing 1mA for 1000 hours but if you try to draw 100mA from it, it'll last a lot less than 10 hours. That blower can draw more amps than the batteries are capable of providing continuously thus losing a substantial amount of power to internal resistance. Ryobi batteries are made with multiples of 18650 batteries. 18650 lithium battery packs can sustain short bursts of high current substantially above their rating but typically for no more than 30 seconds before suffering a considerable voltage drop. Btw, the blower was slowing down because of the voltage drop not a drop in amps. In fact the amp draw was probably rising and overheating both the battery and motor as the voltage dropped. Anyway, Ryobi's standard batteries work great for most of their power tools but the blower with its continuous duty cycle would perform much better if it had the HP brushless motor with Ryobi's HP line of batteries. HP is High Performance or perhaps more accurately, high current. From what I could find on the web: The small battery you tested with the amp meter is rated for max 8 amp draw, 4 amp nominal The 4Ah battery is 15 amp max The 6Ah HP battery is rated 15 amps with a max burst of 30 amps I must add that the blower is not HP so cannot take full advantage of the HP battery's current just its higher capacity. Imho If you ran the 6Ah battery 5 minutes at a time and let it cool in the shade 10 minutes in between, I believe it would easily exceed your 30 minute calculation. Of course there are always variables and temperature is a big one. Obviously if it's only 40 degrees outside in the Fall (when the leaves are falling), the batteries will take longer to heat up and cool down much faster while sitting idle. A tool that draws much less current such as a radio at less than an amp will also give you significantly better results. I will add that sadly Ryobi chose to include the cheaper 4Ah battery in this kit rather than an HP battery but then the blower would also need to be upgraded with the brushless motor and HP contacts to the battery. So there goes the average consumer who is looking for the absolute cheapest product (junk) in the misguided belief that the $40 chinese blower with a sticker claiming it blows harder than hurricane Andrew is a better deal. Well now I'm ranting so, thank you. The End
You forgot to mention the link between voltage and amperage, as the battery drains the voltage decreases which means amps increase thus draining it even faster, now if you could have measured the voltage during the whole test we would have gotten a very good indication of the what's what's. Not to say it wasn't a good demonstration tho man👍
Kite, I think your assessment is good, and as scientific (at least pretty accurate) as any I've seen. The question I keep in my mind when I go to make a purchase, is - does the tool do the job for what I'm looking at for the price point? Having a good base set, I only buy tools when they are on sale, so I've purchased a number of Ryobi tools that have come with a good battery set, and sometimes a "free" (OK, nothing is free!) tool. So, I have 5 of the 4Ah batteries and 1-1.5 Ah. As a result I have never run out of battery power doing anything. That said, I am very aware that there are better quality tools. If I were a pro, or even if I were to take on a large task like rebuilding a garage, I would just but the tool I think best fit the job. They last a long time these days. Another thing that happens when you get a lot of batteries like this, you start to loose perspective and are psychologically predisposed to just buying the tools to feed the existing battery pool because it is much cheaper. I have actually turned to looking at reviewers and analytic reviews such as this before purchasing. Thanks - good work!
Thanks mate....I'm certain that this test would not stand up to scientific scrutiny. That being said, for most people this video will help them make informed buying decisions and hopefully choose the best yard tool for their needs.
Most reputable battery manufacturers quote their Ah rating for a given discharge rate, usually C/10 which means 0.6A for a 6Ah battery. Testing at a lower current, say a LED torch would produce a higher figure. Still a useful test though. It would be interesting to compare the Ryobi batteries with the cheaper off-brand models.
Just bought 2 4ah batts from home depot for $70 the day after christmas, I couldnt pass it up. I think they will help me because ive been running the little 1.5ah batts for years. I run a 3/8 impact, sawzall, and 18v tire inflator so these bigger batteries are gonna be a lifesaver I think when working on customer properties. Atleast now I also have 4 batteries instead of just 2 👌 my dad is now going to get the same deal tomorrow he was impressed by the deal
I liked your video. I felt like it was a pretty accurate real world test. I agree with some of the comments that your math was off, but disagree about why. I think it was due to rounding and not your bias against Ryobi. I feel like the test was fair. I don’t think the beach ball would really make a difference on run time. I was curious how you measured the amps on the tool. I’m fooling around with making a corded battery for my garage. It’s not temperature controlled. So it gets super hot and super cold. And I want to be able to use my Ryobi tools out there without leaving the batteries out there. I was hoping to figure out the amps specifically for the drill. And maybe a saw or 2.
Thanks - So, I took advanced Physics in college and one of my best professors always rounded (and I mean huge rounding - like 89=100 stuff) and it was surprising how in most cases the results were close to the real ones as long as your round fairly on both sides - for what it is worth. The tool I was using is an inductive amp meter - they are great because you don't have to be part of the circuit to measure the amps. They are more expensive than a normal meter but well worth it.
When the 4 and 6 amp hour batteries first came out, I tested them on my Icharger 410 on the discharge function. The batteries were new from their packaging and they all tested right at or slightly higher than their advertised watt hour ratings. Oddly enough, the high current stall that happens on some tools seems to be the same between the 4 and 6 model. I don't think the 6 handles more current then the 4 in other words. I am waiting to get the new HP 18V batteries to see if they in fact handle heavy loads better.
Under high amperage loads the ryobi batteries overheat and the internal resistance of the cells decreases the voltage below the cutoff. The ratings are true but not under their intended use case. Every brand measures amp hours the same way. They use the number off of the battery cells inside the pack. Battery technology is very interesting.
@@Kitearmy indeed they are. I just bought 2 used ryobi 4 ah batterys and a Chinese 6 ah. They were so cheap I just figured I had to have both. Lol. Its amazing how good even the used batteries are compared to ni-cd. The newer lithium technologies are so much more reliable than the old ones. The lithium rc batteries I used to run only lasted 50 or so cycles but now these new batterys last so many cycles I stopped counting. Battery tech has come such a long way in the last 5 years.
Theoretically there is enough power in the batteries to hit their stated runtimes, however they will cut off before they go too low as a safety feature to stop the batteries from becoming permanently damaged on/or catching fire.
This comment comes 3 years after you made this video, so I have had many more YT videos to watch and learn about this stuff than you did when you filmed this and You seem like a smart guy so you probably have learned a lot since making this, so please don't think I'm being critical of you. I'm just trying to keep things accurate for the other folks that may run across this in these more recent times. I have the same meter that you used in this video and it has to be zeroed when using the clamp amp meter. You started your first test with 1.1 amp showing on the meter, so you would want to subtract that from the current readings that you got during that particular test. That would lower it to 11.4 amps, and then go from there. A lithium ion battery's cell's AH rating is pretty much universally based on a .2 C discharge rate. For a tool battery, that would mean a 18 volt battery rated for 1.5 AH will provide 27 Watt Hours of power (18v X 1.5a) provided the tool only draws .2 X 1.5 amps or .3 amps. If the tool in question draws more than that, all bets are off. You may not get your full 27 WH. All you were monitoring was Time in your test. If you had been monitoring battery voltage and the amps going to the tool, which equates to the Power, you would have seen those did not stay constant. That's why the beach ball got closer and closer to the blower's nozzle. Basically you discharged that battery at about 34 times the current than it's AH rating is based on. If you had used a LED flashlight for your test the battery would have lasted much, much longer. I suspect that Ryobi, and other tool producers, offer different sized batteries so the battery fits the requirements of the tool to give a reasonable run time without excessive weight and unnecessary expense. I could be wrong though. At any rate, you got 22.3 WH out of a 27 WH battery, running it at 34 times it's rated value (if we ignore the obvious changes in voltage and current while the test was going on) That ain't too shabby, if you understand what's going on. Your 6AH battery has 108 WH of power in it, if you limit the draw to .2C. That's .2 X its capacity or 1/5 of its capacity, however you choose to look at it. That comes to 1.2 Amps. If you use it on a tool that draws more amps you won't get that full 108 WH. This 6 AH battery gave you about 83% of its capacity, even though you drove it at 9.5 times the Amps that was used when quantifying that rating.
you must also state if you know, that ryobi batts cut out BEFORE they come to "0" volts..why ? cause if you drain a batt 100% if will never take a charge again..its a safety cut off safe switch thats inside the batt on the pcb
Surely what you saw was voltage drop on the battery, so the current would have stayed constant or even increased to try and produce similar power (which of course is futile for a battery) And as we know voltage is more efficient to produce than current.
I would love to see the same test but with Ryobi Landon I would love to know how long you could run the landing with the 4AH and a six amp hour and the nine amp hour and be able to see the difference between those batteries and I would love to know how much power the lantern draws
Where to start? That blower's power draw will vary greatly over time. it's seldom run for that long w/o a breatk. The switch itself does not even lock. Most people are on/off/partial/full/on/off etc. This is the largest delta in your data. Also, the battery is not designed to put out that full power for the duration. It is designed to be close, but the battery's onboard BMS can only do so much.
Thanks - I would argue that most people go full power until they finish the job or run out of power. I'm saying this as the biggest battery leaf blower reviewer online.
Love the demistration, I have a ryobi 18volt 1.5 Amp battery and I was wondering if a bigger battery would give me more run time and power ,,,great demistration
I would like to see the same test for other manufacture batteries. Also I would like to see the amp meter during the test. Lastly I didn’t,t think lithium batteries fell off but had nearly full power until the quit.
These are low quality cells - the power fall off is huge. I intended on including the amp meter during but that would add more resistance to circuit and someone would have complained. If I get enough interest, I will revisit.
They do fall off, but not completely. It's a myth/misunderstanding that li -ion has no drop off. It does, just like any other battery. The reason that they don't, is because the electronics that manage them intentionally cut them off before you get to that point. That's to prevent you from fully draining, because if you did, you would permanently kill the battery. OTOH, yes, they get weaker because the voltage drops. Even my Bosch tools get weaker before they cut out. You just notice it more with blowers due to very high current demands.
That's so true - that's why i choose the blower to perform this test. I didn't want to wait around all day for the battery to deplete when connect to a drill. Thanks for your helpful comments.
Kite Army they are not low quality cells. Your assumption is unfounded and based on lack of understanding of electronics and battery specifications. You could have used a clamp on meter rather than a series multimeter, or a very low ohm resistor then measure the mV drop across it which is minimal power loss. However there seems to be a large fundamental misunderstanding about batteries by yourself and Ed Blough. Lithium Ion batteries reach approx 4.2V at full charge and discharge down to around 3.0V (due to a protection circuit that prevents over-discharge). This drop in voltage occurs with every single cell in every Li-Ion battery pack no matter the brand of pack or cell. This directly results in less current through any tool with a brushed motor and once it drops enough, will reach the peak current possible through a brushless motor too (and drain the battery that much quicker due to running nearer full output power for longer, otherwise brushless would have even more runtime benefit than they do). I propose a different test. Get the battery spec sheet, note the current at which they attain the Ah rating, and make a resistive load for the test that results in the spec sheet current for the nominal 3.6V/cell ( x 5 = 18V pack). This eliminates the variable of which tool you are running, and all you have to do to measure the current without further loss is measure the voltage across the resistive load which then calculates out to precisely the current. If on the other hand you just wanted to demonstrate that these 18V tools aren't fit for more than small properties, sure everyone already knew that, which is why higher voltage tools exist but frankly I wouldn't bother because you can get a reasonable gas blower for $100 and taken care of and with light repairs can last over a decade. Cordless is great for some things but I'll stick to gas for something like a blower where I don't just need runtime, I need performance too. My gas blower even mulches leaves and twigs every fall to cover flower beds over winter and for compost.
Cool comment - of course I don't agree with all your points but that's OK. I use cordless tools on my yard and am pleased with the results. I will never use gas tools again - unless at gun point. Now, the point that I was making in this video is that some cordless tools are up to the task landscaping my middle sized yard and some are not.
Clamp on ammeters are for AC current and cant measure steady DC current. It is only measuring the AC component of the current from the battery. The average the DC current is likely significantly much higher. To get an accurate DC current reading you would need a DC ammeter that connects in series with the circuit.
The most obvious problem with your testing arises from the leads and connections made with them for your initial amp draw assessment. The additional resistance introduced by their total length and the really poor connections made by the clips would have reduced the amp draw from what was likely 15 or more to your assumed 12. You could have done an audio pitch analysis to compare frequency/Rpm or used an optical tach to see how much difference in speed there was between a directly connected battery as compared to running the blower through your leads. Note that Rpm does not increase linearly with voltage. Note also that this blower is only pushing about 18 V × 15 A or about 270 watts which is about 1/3 of a horsepower.
All battery ratings are based upon a specific discharge rate. Every battery in the world has inefficiencies and the actual AH capability will fall as current draw increases. These batteries came close to their rating at a very high draw, which means they likely aren't overrated. There are losses due to heat and the peukert effect when a high discharge rate is used. This follows the laws of physics and no battery in the world can avoid these issues. Also, as the battery drains the amperage use will go up, not down. The motor in that blower will try to pull a specific wattage and as the battery voltage falls it will pull more amps to maintain that wattage. If you keep your ammeter connected throughout the discharge you'll see the amps creeping up over time.
I would use the full power if im really trying to push little bed rocks. Other than that, pushing leaves, grass and even mulch doesn’t require the full power. Ill keep my ryobi. But this was useful. Now i can manipulate how much run time i could get off my 4AH. Thanks buddy! Subbed!!
From a practical standpoint I think this was a good video. It was nice seeing a real world application of some of the different battery options for the Ryobi one+ line. I’m a fan of their equipment due to their affordability so I was interested to see how their batteries stood up. However, I think your conclusion that the batteries don’t stand up to their advertised voltage/run time isn’t 100% reliable. Without controlling your variables to the exact degree advertised (1.5 amps for 60 minutes) your experiment was faulty from the start. Also, you clearly stated that the blower was pulling 12.5 amps and did your calculations based on it pulling 12. Had you accounted for the other .5 amp in your calculations then the anticipated run time would have been closer to that which it should “in theory” be capable of. Rather, you should have said “If 1.5A = 60 minutes, then 12.5A = 7.2 minutes (or 7 min 12 secs).” Ultimately, your experiment still did not support this but, statistically, it was closer. I’d be very interested to see if it could in fact meet it’s advertised run time by controlling the exact amount of amps being pulled. Although, I’m not sure how you would go about achieving that! In the end, still a good video. Looking forward to more from you.
A leaf blower for the example used was informative but a test using more common items used with the 18 volt batteries such as drills, saws and other commonly used power tools around the house would have been more applicable for that battery pack. A leaf blower using a 40 volt battery pack regardless of the brand name would definitely be a better option. Your video was presented very well--Thanks
Glad you liked the video. I choose a blower because they have much higher power demands than some other tools. That kept the video shorter. Thanks again for your comment
As a diehard ryobi fan....i would suggest your numbers are pretty close to correct....in my experience blowers really suck the juice as opposed to a drill, impact, etc....im sure other platforms can get more runtime, but essentially all the big brands are using high quality lithium batteries...so I doubt the difference would be massive...
Great video keep up the good work. What do you think about a budget Rigid Wet Saw for DIY user . Do you have any recommendations for a wet saw? Home use
Ok, 1st thing I have to say is that you are brave to dive into the world of testing lithium batteries. Everybody out there thinks they are experts in the field and it's very hard to please these people with any type of test that anybody does. Having a bit of an electronics background I would mention that V should not be related to power ( W ) as you mentioned. V would better be related to speed... JMHO. Power ( W ) is V x A so it is the combo of the 2. I agree with you on the fact that you say Ah is related to runtime as Ah is the size of the "electron" tank and the more electrons you have to play or capacity, the longer the runtime should be. I also agree that if you increase V you increase your power...that's just math. One thing to point out is the voltage drop as the battery discharges and hence the following power decrease...which is normal. The battery does not stay at full voltage as a load is applied so that has to be taken into consideration and messes with the math. Also the motor, battery and connecting wires heat up which create resistive losses and more loss of power and runtime. If you pulsed that battery and let it recover and cool down after each pulse or short run, I bet you would get the rated runtime. These are just a few observations from years of racing r/c cars and watching a lot of EV related shows. I am certainly no expert on lithium batteries...just making observations. And speaking of that, why did your test meter show a current reading at no load? Did you "zero" the meter? I always enjoy your videos and your efforts to do demos of these battery related products and appreciate all the effort and time that goes into them. You are creating a forum for discussion about these products and deeper learning of them...good on ya mate! Cheers, John ;)
I have been toying with making this video for a long time. I knew it would be at my own peril but what the heck. Also when I was making this video, my target audience was my mother - who has no clue at all about batteries but has found her way into the cordless yard tool isle and made some very poor decisions. Like my mom, their are so many people who have no idea about volts or Ah and how it relates to tool performance - this is the purpose of this video to explain those numbers in the simplest way possible. Like you mentioned, anyone who has a better way to explain these numbers to my mom - by all means - lets hear what you have to say.
Ok then, now I see where you are coming from ;) Bless you heart for helping your mom with her cordless power tool decisions. I hope she doesn't get turned off battery power and learns from your examples as well as others out there. Keep putting up the good fight Andrew! Cheers, John ;)
Finally freed up some time to catch up with my favorite vloggers and you're one of them! Had a really HEA VY week with a mini road trip, overnight camp out in my Prius and a morning surf sesh with my new wetsuit and surfboard to start the week. Then came home to work a second job Tuesday night and the rest of the week worked my regular job and I also helped install a small above ground pool for my wife and grand daughter so there wasn't any time to watch TH-cam. Oh yeah...I also spent hours trying to edit my trip and surf sesh that I just vlogged. So here I am finally checking yours out...whew! Cheers, John ;) P.S. I haven't got your parcel yet...kinda weird isn't it? Hopefully it will be here soon ;)
Yahoo...good for you! I hope you got some kitesurfing in during the time! Happy Independence Day!...if I get too busy again to say it closer to the date...lol! BTW...I used to be very lazy but now there's not enough hours in the day to do all the things I need and want to do...yeewww! Cheers, John ; )
This is a good example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. First, this is not a valid test of battery capacity - you need a fixed resistive load to measure capacity. Second, almost all manufacturers use the same 3 brands of 18650 cells - Samsung, LG and Sony. The battery packs are simply rated by the cells installed 1500mAH = 1.5 AH, 3000mAH = 3 AH etc. Higher capacity is achieved by arranging cells in parallel. If you open a Dewalt, Milwaukee, Craftsman or Ryobi battery you will find the same cells installed. Reviewer is incompetent and shows obvious bias.
I own some Ryobi tools, however Dewalt is my main brand for power tools. That being said all brands manufacture both excellent and crap tools. My Ryobi 18 gauge nail gun is best $129.00 I ever spent on a battery operated tool. Anyone that doesn't know the difference between watts and volts should not be rating the battery capacity of anything. You are proof that any imbecile with a cell phone can make a TH-cam video.
Just to have someone of your intellectual caliber and knowledge of electrical engineering, comment on my videos is thrilling (and most importantly, lucrative). Thanks to your ongoing support, I'm going to dedicate my next Ryobi tool review to you :)
I appreciate the acknowledgement but no thanks. I think you should stick to making videos you're qualified for like blowing wet grass and balancing beach balls. Enough said - Mike out.
Ryobi is underrated. I get sick of people low rating their tools like they are for amateurs. I'm pretty picky and I think Ryobi can handle big jobs. I've broke off bolt heads with Ryobi when I was taking it easy. Milwaukee is better, but I have never wished I went with Milwaukee instead of Ryobi. Also Ryobi batteries last way longer than I expected.
That 6Ah battery... was it allowing the blower to draw more than 12.5A? That's really interesting because if it is, then the bigger batteries area also allowing the blower to be more effective and also would mean less run time.
The nominal spec is tested under the idea of controlled conditions, such as temperature, discharge rate, etc. Any test under a different condition will yield a lower number". You got ~85% of specs, which is not too bad, and 95% is an unrealistic expectation if tested under a condition like yours..
The thing is, your meter is saying the blower is using 1.12 amps doing nothing at 3:52. I'd advise using something else to test. I know there are Fluke fans out there but I like my UEi meter just as much for the price. No Fieldpiece stuff.
I only have one because I used to do HVAC work. Also, the battery probably keeps around 10% or so reserve to prevent a full drain; as you probably know fully draining a li-ion battery kills it.
Why would a battery charge and after charging I'm assuming fully because it has all 4 bars but anyway when it's finished charging the charger starts reading defective. I have a bunch of batteries and it only does it to this particular battery on all chargers. Battery seems to work fine as far as I know. I'll drain it to 2 bars before charging. Any suggestions?
Time to “troll” and be “that guy”. 22 minutes at 12-12.5 amps plus 3 minutes at say 6amps equals more than 6ah. You even said in the video at full force it is 12.5 amps draw on the 1.5ah battery. Your test doesn’t show the amp draw on the 6ah battery that will provide more power to the tool, but with the 1.5ah amp output as the “standard” you still get 12.3ah draw on the blower meaning a 6ah battery would not give you 30 minutes usage. that being said the numbers provided by ryobi are much closer than the numbers you provided.
No, be that guy...so will I. I think the power drop off isn't as much a function of capacity as it is voltage "pressure". Wattage is "power". Amps are current or volume throughput. As you drain a battery its voltage drops. Eventually it can drop below what the device needs to function even though technically the battery still has a charge/capacity in it. Watts(power) formula is W = V * A. At 18V and 12A the watts are 216. As the voltage pressure drops use say to 16V at 12A the watts are 192. At 14V and 12A watts are 168. Eventually drops low enough the device doesn't function. Why is this important? Because not all devices using these 18v battery packs draw the same amps/current. The LED spotlights are an example. They draw far less current and cause a slower voltage pressure drop. LEDs are also very forgiving to voltage fluctuations, where electric motors are not. At a certain point there isn't enough volts to drive the motor even though there is still a remaining charge in that battery pack. But I could be wrong.
@@ohdogwow2 yup many mistakes. too many to take this seriouse. I wished people would spent less time on annoiying jingles and crasy cutovers and more on research and facts. I also wonder why noone mentiones that the power of a motor is determined by the magnet field which is created by the flow of current (amps) and NOT voltage. The voltage says nil about how much force an engine can produce.
I don’t think they over rated the batteries. Batteries are important in the R/C world, and that’s where I learned that you do not want to run your batteries down to zero. I’m assuming these batteries have a cut off when it nears somewhere around 3.5 volts.
Since 6Ah battery is heavier than 1.5Ah, did u account for how much power the person holding the blower will require and how much energy will they be losing while using 6Ah vs 1.5Ah battery? just kidding, thanks for the great video. If u can tell me the weight of 6Ah and 4Ah batteries, that would be helpful.
Wow, people get hot under the collar over a video. Dont like it? Move along. Everybody can't afford the most expensive tool a available no matter the brand. If it does the job, isn't that what counts. And for the record, I have DeWalt, Ryobi, and EGO battery operated tools. Different tools, price points, and jobs. I spend the money where i need it and save it where i dont. It's a good video for those wondering about the different volt batteries and amp hours. Good job. Those of you with better ideas, make your video.
Thanks mate - When I get suggestions from viewers about how to make a better video, I always recommend that they make their own video. When and if someone does this , they have a guaranteed subscriber from KiteArmy.
Thank you for the insite I know that I can have a 2ah battery but I can buy the bigger ah battery and it will still work as I'm not a professional worker more a diyer it helps
You did a great job on these battery review. I was curious about amp draw. I thought the tool itself would have a watt rating and this would give you amp draw? Anyway back to my original thought... when you buy into a system like this you are stuck in that platform. I would not be interested in another platform with more batteries and chargers sitting in my garage eating up space. I would just look into buying another battery to get longer run time. Plus the great thing about ryobi is myriad of tools in their arsenal. I don't think any other company competes with ryobi's tool diversity. One more thing those batteries are new out of the package, are you not suppose to cycle them a few times to get best performance?
Great info thank you. I have been wondering how much power cordless tools really deliver. In your test 12.5A * 20V = 250Watts. I have heard that the 3ah and 6ah Lithium+HP batteries can deliver as much as 46A! If so, even 18V cordless tools can be significantly more powerful than many 120V tools.
Ive got a 1,5 amp battery and want to buy a brushed circular saw. Do i need to buy a bigger battery aswell? Mainly doing small projects at my small house 😊
Love all the " Battery Expert " correction comments, they're such experts on the subject and have acquired soo much knowledge on the subject that they have no room left for enough common sense to post a link to their video to show viewers the correct scientific way that this test should have been done. You can be expert painter but if not a soul other than yourself seen you paint are you really the best?
You are incorrect that there is no standard for battery rating when in fact there is. The voltage is the sum of the cells and the amp hours is that rated for the cells by the cell manufacturer, or some low number multiple in the case of battery packs which have more than one series of cells in parallel, for example the Ryobi 4Ah and 6Ah packs both have two series of 2Ah and 3Ah (respectively) cells. Keep in mind that the cell manufacturer provides the specifics of the conditions under which the cells achieve that amp hour capacity, most particularly including the current. For years a common rate was C/10 but the new cell construction came long to optimize for capacity OR current so it is often true that the highest capacity major brand cells, can't be used at as high a current to achieve their rating.
Thank you - yes you are right that the cell manufacturers give the specs BUT the point I was making is that their is no oversight of tool manufacturers to make sure that their marketing dept does not exaggerate those ratings.
They aren't exaggerating the ratings. They are rating based on what the cell manufacturer did. There is no way they can give some lower rating that satisfies you and have it hold true across their entire tool line because they all draw different current. Further, any of them with a brushed motor draw significantly less current as the voltage drops. Lastly, this is typical of all cordless tool brands, that they list the one Ah capacitor for the pack, not a chart that shows different Ah capacity for every tool they sell that can use it. Open the battery pack, get the manufacturer info off the cells, and lookup the datasheet for them. The manufacturer should state the current draw to achieve their Ah rating and then you can put a static load of that amount on the cells to see if they live up to the rating. If they do not then you either have defective cells, fake (generic) relabeled cells, or the manufacturer is fraudulently rating them and by manufacturer I mean the cell manufacturer, not Ryobi or any other tool brand. There is a third factor. When you run a tool continuously you may find that the pack shuts down from thermal density (temperature) rather than battery depletion. In your case that does not appear to be so because the motor slowed down so much, but in other cases people have found their battery needed a rest because of heat buildup, which would be the tool manufacturer's fault rather than the cell manufacturer.
Surprised you could not find it as it is a famous protest song.... Blowing in the Wind, written and performed by Bob Dylan. Peter Paul and Mary also covered it, as did Pete Seger.
‘Overestimating the power’ = misselling! Here in the UK, misselling is a criminal offence by which manufacturers would be able to sell goods by deception. Incredibly serious = Jail time
question what amp battery do you for recommend for the 7-1/4 in. Miter Saw by ryobi and 5-1/2 in. Circular Saw? I have the 2.0 Ah Batteries, it was a combo set . 7-1/4 in. Miter Saw it ran for 25 minutes and the 5-1/2 in. Circular Saw it ran ran for 20 minutes. both battery was fully charge. any suggestions and thanks Rocky.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 78 | คู่เอก "ปกรณ์ vs ฟาบิโอ"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LSOmgl0Th2c/mqdefault.jpg)
![Vanon 6ah Ryobi One replacement battery [Crap company, Crap service, Rigged this Review]](/img/n.gif)
While Ryobi might very well be over-estimating the capacity, another thing you completely looked over is how capacity falls depending on current draw. If you discharge those batteries more slowly (like on their soldering iron, or the jobsite fan), chances are you will get a runtime closer than the theoretical calculations. However, if you use higher drain tools like a big drill or the blower, you'll get less capacity, since the higher current flow means more power will be lost to heat within the battery as well as any cables or contacts.
Good point
Yes! Thank you! I was going down the comments to see if there was anyone who understood simple physics! There is no "100% efficient" anything out there. There are ALWAYS losses in friction, resistance ect. The extra power that was "missing" actually was spent by being turned into heat. I think that the battery performed as advertised.
You stated the obvious with the amount of draw depending on what you are using. I wouldn't say he completely overlooked it.
You can do the maths yourself if you know what tool or equipment you need.
In this example he used a blower.
The video still provides the information required to understand the batteries capabilities.
Unless your a complete numbnut, which your comment will help the numbnuts out there. Cheers
Yes, but breakdowns of the batteries, to look at the actual cells contained within, often show that the cells themselves have a lower max capacity than is actually being advertised.
This is basically battery abuse. Asking the battery to output TWELVE AMPS for the entire time? A 1.5Amp hour battery is designed to run for an hour at 1.5 amps (technically, 1C) or 1A for 1.5 hours (0.66C). It is not designed to run at 12A (6C, 6 times as fast a discharge rate), and I'm amazed it put that out for any length of time at all.
A battery that runs continually gets hotter (power loss) and will deliver less energy the hotter it gets.
Conversely, starting an electrical motor has a higher draw than on that is already spinning.
A test involving shorter runs would simulate real world use more accurately and give you numbers closer to the theoretical rating listed on the battery.
All that said, I enjoyed the video and appreciate your effort. You have earned a like and subscribe, sir.
Awesome - make sure you check out my latest blower video - you will love it
3 years later and this is still a great video. Well done!
Thanks mate - glad that it has stood up to the test of time
@@Kitearmy Is it going to give my brushless impact driver more POWER if i use a 5ah instead of my 2.5ah, meaning actual torque/power for better performance?
@@themototo10 nope
I absolutely loved how you broke that down plus the incorporation of the amp meter into this video was absolute genius! If you sell me a pen for $300, I will buy it. You are simply that good 😊
You are too kind! I really appreciate a man who has passion for overpriced writing implements. Here's one (but don't you dare buy) amzn.to/3eL46J3
@@Kitearmy omg!! haha 😂 The description said the following, “Fountain Pen with 14K gold medium nib”. Are we doing a review on this pen lol
@tyson sittu I prefer pens with Bitcoin nibs 😎
1x viewer.....glad I found you channel. I was questioning the 1.5 Ah vs. 4.0 Ah Ryobi batteries for a tool comparison (the Reciprocating Saw, in particular). Your video was perfect, albeit using a different tool here. Your humor/delivery system and explanations are too cool. Thank you sir!!!
Thanks mate - welcome to the KiteArmy
While my Dewalt 60 volt right angle drill is the king of the Category I just can’t justify that price level on every tool and the Roybi Hand drills and Saws hold up well in hard Industrial use and the new 6 amp battery’s really sealed the deal
I get the cost thing...but I in my experience I never felt that any Ryobi tool I used was capable of hard industrial use. Very cool that they work great for you.
tommays56 or the 9amp battery coming and other good power tools for that kind of battery.
Ryobi is coming out with a 9Ah - cool
@ Kite Army:
Yep...just ordered 2 of the the 9ah batteries @ Home Depot...a "Special Buy" item presently (given the Holiday Season I suppose) but still pricey: A 2-pack for $159.99. Plan to use the largeer-capacity batteries for any cordless "benchtop" Ryobi tools I get.
-- BR
Frankly, in industrial use all tools and batteries get pooped. For home use I got Ryobi tools cause they strong enough and cheap.
Also you said brand new. Lithium ion needs a few charge/discharge cycles to reach full capacity. As well as some losses due to heat and inefficiency.
I think that was a fairly good test, definitely good for anyone not familiar with the complexity of volts and amps and amp hours. How I will say that technically it's probably not Ryobi overstating the amp hours as pretty much all brands buy cells from Samsung, LG, Sanyo or Sony. I imagine they simply repeat the manufacturers capacity specs. Also something to consider is you will always get less runtime the faster you discharge the pack. Heat has a lot to do with it as heat is not only created by energy that's not turned into current but it also causes the cells and circuits to work less efficiently. I would think that if the manufacturer tests the capacity with a half an amp or maybe 1 amp load they might get the full rated capacity before the low voltage cut off kicks in. With that said your test was very good in a real world sense, but you'll probably find very similar results out of a higher end battery.
All very good points! Thanks for comment
Good explanation- really good. But I am curious. So, what's the step up platform for another 50 bucks? Do you mean a higher voltage battery platform? You mean the Ryobi 40v blower?
came across this video looking into some homeowner tools. Left feeling more prepared for my Basic Electricity A&P class that im about to take. Thank you sir for this.
Glad it was helpful!
So it is safe to use this motorcycle battery -
- LI-ION-Technologie
-: 20 A: 48 Wh vs 20Wh / 5A?
Thanks, your video was very helpful. It explained why my battery time ran so short. I have a 18v, 4Ah battery in the Ryobi One+ mower, it lasted about 7 minutes.
Glad it helped
I'm pretty sure that goes for all major brands - after all, for example Ryobi, MIlwaukee, AEG and Ridgid are all owned by the same HK company. By the way, what a relief to hear good background music, instead of the usual grating noise most other channels have !
Thanks so much, though I should let you know that most of my videos have that annoying grating noise
@@Kitearmy hahah you just gave me a good laugh ! Appreciate your content !
Thanks for the video. I just converted a snowblower to run on 2 series connected Ryobi batts. Knowing they can push 12A lets me know they'll work.
Glad I could help
Your math is correct, they cut the battery at 20% to save the battery. So you actually proved Ryobi is honest with their AH.
That is something to consider
Remember, voltage drops during the test. It changes all the numbers. The batteries are not misrepresented the way you're saying. In fact they usually read above their factory rating. Also a 12 amp draw is a bit extreme. Most of those cells are rated at X amps at 1c rate.
I've tested dozens and they're within 5%.
12amp is extreme but that is not uncommon for cordless blowers - you are right about the the c rating. If better cells were used and they had higher c rate they would perform better. Perfect example of how Ryobi cuts costs - Good point mate :)
@@Kitearmy Ryobi uses Sony cells which are great cells.
@@jalee6587 Lots of brands use the Samsung - don't know how they compare
Glad someone else here understands batteries and physical laws!
I really appreciate the real world testing. Thanks for the upload
Glad you liked
That beach ball must be magic, hovering in one place.
I spend lots of hours training it to do that :)
@@Kitearmy You should try out America's Got Talent :)
noodlefoo me and my magic dancing balls ⚽️ 🏀 🏈
Cool test. But I can also imagine the capacity is related to the amp draw. 1A 10hour doesn't promise 10A 1hour. Would be a more complete test if cover different amp draws.
thanks
There is a lot more to it. The amount of current we can really draw from a battery is limited. For example, a coin cell that is rated for 1 Ah can't actually provide 1 Amp of current for an hour, in fact it can't even provide 0.1 Amp without overextending itself. However, a 1Ah coin cell has no problem providing 1mA for 1000 hours but if you try to draw 100mA from it, it'll last a lot less than 10 hours.
That blower can draw more amps than the batteries are capable of providing continuously thus losing a substantial amount of power to internal resistance. Ryobi batteries are made with multiples of 18650 batteries. 18650 lithium battery packs can sustain short bursts of high current substantially above their rating but typically for no more than 30 seconds before suffering a considerable voltage drop. Btw, the blower was slowing down because of the voltage drop not a drop in amps. In fact the amp draw was probably rising and overheating both the battery and motor as the voltage dropped. Anyway, Ryobi's standard batteries work great for most of their power tools but the blower with its continuous duty cycle would perform much better if it had the HP brushless motor with Ryobi's HP line of batteries. HP is High Performance or perhaps more accurately, high current.
From what I could find on the web:
The small battery you tested with the amp meter is rated for max 8 amp draw, 4 amp nominal
The 4Ah battery is 15 amp max
The 6Ah HP battery is rated 15 amps with a max burst of 30 amps
I must add that the blower is not HP so cannot take full advantage of the HP battery's current just its higher capacity.
Imho If you ran the 6Ah battery 5 minutes at a time and let it cool in the shade 10 minutes in between, I believe it would easily exceed your 30 minute calculation. Of course there are always variables and temperature is a big one. Obviously if it's only 40 degrees outside in the Fall (when the leaves are falling), the batteries will take longer to heat up and cool down much faster while sitting idle. A tool that draws much less current such as a radio at less than an amp will also give you significantly better results.
I will add that sadly Ryobi chose to include the cheaper 4Ah battery in this kit rather than an HP battery but then the blower would also need to be upgraded with the brushless motor and HP contacts to the battery. So there goes the average consumer who is looking for the absolute cheapest product (junk) in the misguided belief that the $40 chinese blower with a sticker claiming it blows harder than hurricane Andrew is a better deal. Well now I'm ranting so, thank you. The End
Wow - I guess you have thought a lot about this subject. I really appreciate your insight
That test and examples really help with the explanation of power and amp hrs. Thank you
Sure thing
You forgot to mention the link between voltage and amperage, as the battery drains the voltage decreases which means amps increase thus draining it even faster, now if you could have measured the voltage during the whole test we would have gotten a very good indication of the what's what's.
Not to say it wasn't a good demonstration tho man👍
Kite, I think your assessment is good, and as scientific (at least pretty accurate) as any I've seen. The question I keep in my mind when I go to make a purchase, is - does the tool do the job for what I'm looking at for the price point? Having a good base set, I only buy tools when they are on sale, so I've purchased a number of Ryobi tools that have come with a good battery set, and sometimes a "free" (OK, nothing is free!) tool. So, I have 5 of the 4Ah batteries and 1-1.5 Ah. As a result I have never run out of battery power doing anything. That said, I am very aware that there are better quality tools. If I were a pro, or even if I were to take on a large task like rebuilding a garage, I would just but the tool I think best fit the job. They last a long time these days. Another thing that happens when you get a lot of batteries like this, you start to loose perspective and are psychologically predisposed to just buying the tools to feed the existing battery pool because it is much cheaper. I have actually turned to looking at reviewers and analytic reviews such as this before purchasing. Thanks - good work!
Thanks mate....I'm certain that this test would not stand up to scientific scrutiny. That being said, for most people this video will help them make informed buying decisions and hopefully choose the best yard tool for their needs.
Most reputable battery manufacturers quote their Ah rating for a given discharge rate, usually C/10 which means 0.6A for a 6Ah battery. Testing at a lower current, say a LED torch would produce a higher figure. Still a useful test though. It would be interesting to compare the Ryobi batteries with the cheaper off-brand models.
Great suggestion - i will put it on the list
Really awesome video, answered my question.
Thanks - glad you found it helpful
Just bought 2 4ah batts from home depot for $70 the day after christmas, I couldnt pass it up. I think they will help me because ive been running the little 1.5ah batts for years. I run a 3/8 impact, sawzall, and 18v tire inflator so these bigger batteries are gonna be a lifesaver I think when working on customer properties. Atleast now I also have 4 batteries instead of just 2 👌 my dad is now going to get the same deal tomorrow he was impressed by the deal
This is the best sale time of the year for Ryobi tools
True for perhaps high current draw but powering a Ryobi light can be powered longer.
Sure - less power draw
Exactly what I was looking for, thanks a million times!!
I have the same blower I am happy with it. but your right if you have a small yard it works great. I get a lot of leaves.
Your right - this is a good blower but not good for a larger property
I liked your video. I felt like it was a pretty accurate real world test. I agree with some of the comments that your math was off, but disagree about why. I think it was due to rounding and not your bias against Ryobi. I feel like the test was fair. I don’t think the beach ball would really make a difference on run time.
I was curious how you measured the amps on the tool. I’m fooling around with making a corded battery for my garage. It’s not temperature controlled. So it gets super hot and super cold. And I want to be able to use my Ryobi tools out there without leaving the batteries out there.
I was hoping to figure out the amps specifically for the drill. And maybe a saw or 2.
Thanks - So, I took advanced Physics in college and one of my best professors always rounded (and I mean huge rounding - like 89=100 stuff) and it was surprising how in most cases the results were close to the real ones as long as your round fairly on both sides - for what it is worth. The tool I was using is an inductive amp meter - they are great because you don't have to be part of the circuit to measure the amps. They are more expensive than a normal meter but well worth it.
When the 4 and 6 amp hour batteries first came out, I tested them on my Icharger 410 on the discharge function. The batteries were new from their packaging and they all tested right at or slightly higher than their advertised watt hour ratings.
Oddly enough, the high current stall that happens on some tools seems to be the same between the 4 and 6 model. I don't think the 6 handles more current then the 4 in other words. I am waiting to get the new HP 18V batteries to see if they in fact handle heavy loads better.
I would love to hear the results
Under high amperage loads the ryobi batteries overheat and the internal resistance of the cells decreases the voltage below the cutoff. The ratings are true but not under their intended use case. Every brand measures amp hours the same way. They use the number off of the battery cells inside the pack. Battery technology is very interesting.
Sure is interesting and these batteries are getting better every year
@@Kitearmy indeed they are. I just bought 2 used ryobi 4 ah batterys and a Chinese 6 ah. They were so cheap I just figured I had to have both. Lol. Its amazing how good even the used batteries are compared to ni-cd. The newer lithium technologies are so much more reliable than the old ones. The lithium rc batteries I used to run only lasted 50 or so cycles but now these new batterys last so many cycles I stopped counting. Battery tech has come such a long way in the last 5 years.
@@inoahmann7542 Its things like super capacitors that are really exciting - no energy loss
This was a great explanation and exactly what i was looking for. Great job!
Thanks mate!
Theoretically there is enough power in the batteries to hit their stated runtimes, however they will cut off before they go too low as a safety feature to stop the batteries from becoming permanently damaged on/or catching fire.
Right - they have a low voltage cut out
This comment comes 3 years after you made this video, so I have had many more YT videos to watch and learn about this stuff than you did when you filmed this and You seem like a smart guy so you probably have learned a lot since making this, so please don't think I'm being critical of you. I'm just trying to keep things accurate for the other folks that may run across this in these more recent times.
I have the same meter that you used in this video and it has to be zeroed when using the clamp amp meter. You started your first test with 1.1 amp showing on the meter, so you would want to subtract that from the current readings that you got during that particular test. That would lower it to 11.4 amps, and then go from there. A lithium ion battery's cell's AH rating is pretty much universally based on a .2 C discharge rate. For a tool battery, that would mean a 18 volt battery rated for 1.5 AH will provide 27 Watt Hours of power (18v X 1.5a) provided the tool only draws .2 X 1.5 amps or .3 amps. If the tool in question draws more than that, all bets are off. You may not get your full 27 WH. All you were monitoring was Time in your test. If you had been monitoring battery voltage and the amps going to the tool, which equates to the Power, you would have seen those did not stay constant. That's why the beach ball got closer and closer to the blower's nozzle. Basically you discharged that battery at about 34 times the current than it's AH rating is based on. If you had used a LED flashlight for your test the battery would have lasted much, much longer. I suspect that Ryobi, and other tool producers, offer different sized batteries so the battery fits the requirements of the tool to give a reasonable run time without excessive weight and unnecessary expense. I could be wrong though. At any rate, you got 22.3 WH out of a 27 WH battery, running it at 34 times it's rated value (if we ignore the obvious changes in voltage and current while the test was going on) That ain't too shabby, if you understand what's going on. Your 6AH battery has 108 WH of power in it, if you limit the draw to .2C. That's .2 X its capacity or 1/5 of its capacity, however you choose to look at it. That comes to 1.2 Amps. If you use it on a tool that draws more amps you won't get that full 108 WH. This 6 AH battery gave you about 83% of its capacity, even though you drove it at 9.5 times the Amps that was used when quantifying that rating.
you must also state if you know, that ryobi batts cut out BEFORE they come to "0" volts..why ? cause if you drain a batt 100% if will never take a charge again..its a safety cut off safe switch thats inside the batt on the pcb
True all - lithium batteries do that
Surely what you saw was voltage drop on the battery, so the current would have stayed constant or even increased to try and produce similar power (which of course is futile for a battery) And as we know voltage is more efficient to produce than current.
Right
I would love to see the same test but with Ryobi Landon I would love to know how long you could run the landing with the 4AH and a six amp hour and the nine amp hour and be able to see the difference between those batteries and I would love to know how much power the lantern draws
Where to start? That blower's power draw will vary greatly over time. it's seldom run for that long w/o a breatk. The switch itself does not even lock. Most people are on/off/partial/full/on/off etc. This is the largest delta in your data. Also, the battery is not designed to put out that full power for the duration. It is designed to be close, but the battery's onboard BMS can only do so much.
Thanks - I would argue that most people go full power until they finish the job or run out of power. I'm saying this as the biggest battery leaf blower reviewer online.
i was hoping you would cover the max current draw of these batteries before the it shuts down from over heating.
I have noticed that with the 2.5Ah battery
Love the demistration, I have a ryobi 18volt 1.5 Amp battery and I was wondering if a bigger battery would give me more run time and power ,,,great demistration
I would like to see the same test for other manufacture batteries. Also I would like to see the amp meter during the test. Lastly I didn’t,t think lithium batteries fell off but had nearly full power until the quit.
These are low quality cells - the power fall off is huge. I intended on including the amp meter during but that would add more resistance to circuit and someone would have complained. If I get enough interest, I will revisit.
They do fall off, but not completely. It's a myth/misunderstanding that li -ion has no drop off. It does, just like any other battery. The reason that they don't, is because the electronics that manage them intentionally cut them off before you get to that point. That's to prevent you from fully draining, because if you did, you would permanently kill the battery.
OTOH, yes, they get weaker because the voltage drops. Even my Bosch tools get weaker before they cut out. You just notice it more with blowers due to very high current demands.
That's so true - that's why i choose the blower to perform this test. I didn't want to wait around all day for the battery to deplete when connect to a drill. Thanks for your helpful comments.
Kite Army they are not low quality cells. Your assumption is unfounded and based on lack of understanding of electronics and battery specifications. You could have used a clamp on meter rather than a series multimeter, or a very low ohm resistor then measure the mV drop across it which is minimal power loss.
However there seems to be a large fundamental misunderstanding about batteries by yourself and Ed Blough. Lithium Ion batteries reach approx 4.2V at full charge and discharge down to around 3.0V (due to a protection circuit that prevents over-discharge). This drop in voltage occurs with every single cell in every Li-Ion battery pack no matter the brand of pack or cell. This directly results in less current through any tool with a brushed motor and once it drops enough, will reach the peak current possible through a brushless motor too (and drain the battery that much quicker due to running nearer full output power for longer, otherwise brushless would have even more runtime benefit than they do).
I propose a different test. Get the battery spec sheet, note the current at which they attain the Ah rating, and make a resistive load for the test that results in the spec sheet current for the nominal 3.6V/cell ( x 5 = 18V pack). This eliminates the variable of which tool you are running, and all you have to do to measure the current without further loss is measure the voltage across the resistive load which then calculates out to precisely the current.
If on the other hand you just wanted to demonstrate that these 18V tools aren't fit for more than small properties, sure everyone already knew that, which is why higher voltage tools exist but frankly I wouldn't bother because you can get a reasonable gas blower for $100 and taken care of and with light repairs can last over a decade. Cordless is great for some things but I'll stick to gas for something like a blower where I don't just need runtime, I need performance too. My gas blower even mulches leaves and twigs every fall to cover flower beds over winter and for compost.
Cool comment - of course I don't agree with all your points but that's OK. I use cordless tools on my yard and am pleased with the results. I will never use gas tools again - unless at gun point. Now, the point that I was making in this video is that some cordless tools are up to the task landscaping my middle sized yard and some are not.
Clamp on ammeters are for AC current and cant measure steady DC current. It is only measuring the AC component of the current from the battery. The average the DC current is likely significantly much higher. To get an accurate DC current reading you would need a DC ammeter that connects in series with the circuit.
I would have liked to do that - I think this gave a good idea though
For outdoor tool yes definitely need a 36v-60v system. But drills and what not ryobi works well for half time users.
very true
I have a couple 1.5 Ah batteries and want to get a small 8in chainsaw. Not sure 1.5 will be enough
The most obvious problem with your testing arises from the leads and connections made with them for your initial amp draw assessment. The additional resistance introduced by their total length and the really poor connections made by the clips would have reduced the amp draw from what was likely 15 or more to your assumed 12. You could have done an audio pitch analysis to compare frequency/Rpm or used an optical tach to see how much difference in speed there was between a directly connected battery as compared to running the blower through your leads. Note that Rpm does not increase linearly with voltage.
Note also that this blower is only pushing about 18 V × 15 A or about 270 watts which is about 1/3 of a horsepower.
Sure -thanks
"only" a quarter of a horse's power output from a battery you hold comfortably in one hand. Have you seen a horse?
Excellent, The way you explained make us understand now , what is 1.5ah means .thank you . I would share it to my friends
I really enjoyed making this video. Glad you found it helpful!
Do that test with Milwaukee and there 2.0, 5.0, 9.0. and later test with new 12.0 and 6.0 with the new 21700 cells!
I wanted to see how those cells would perform against each other :0
5:40 😆 Sir this is a family site
I couldn't help myself
That was a cool video, informative & entertaining.
Thank you!
It helped me to understand a little bit more about batteries thx
Cool
Awesome video! Thanks for the great information.
Glad it was helpful!
All battery ratings are based upon a specific discharge rate. Every battery in the world has inefficiencies and the actual AH capability will fall as current draw increases. These batteries came close to their rating at a very high draw, which means they likely aren't overrated. There are losses due to heat and the peukert effect when a high discharge rate is used. This follows the laws of physics and no battery in the world can avoid these issues.
Also, as the battery drains the amperage use will go up, not down. The motor in that blower will try to pull a specific wattage and as the battery voltage falls it will pull more amps to maintain that wattage. If you keep your ammeter connected throughout the discharge you'll see the amps creeping up over time.
C rate of the new Ryobi HP Batteries make my P508 cut stronger.
Cool - I didn't know they changed the c rating
I would use the full power if im really trying to push little bed rocks. Other than that, pushing leaves, grass and even mulch doesn’t require the full power. Ill keep my ryobi. But this was useful. Now i can manipulate how much run time i could get off my 4AH. Thanks buddy! Subbed!!
Great comment - welcome to the club
Kite Army - Thank you Sir!!
i just bought a ryobi lawn mower with an 18v 4Ah battery. gave it its first charge, which took about 2 hours. drained it in about 20 minutes
Yeah - that's ryobi for ya
Go check out the EGO on my channel
From a practical standpoint I think this was a good video. It was nice seeing a real world application of some of the different battery options for the Ryobi one+ line. I’m a fan of their equipment due to their affordability so I was interested to see how their batteries stood up. However, I think your conclusion that the batteries don’t stand up to their advertised voltage/run time isn’t 100% reliable. Without controlling your variables to the exact degree advertised (1.5 amps for 60 minutes) your experiment was faulty from the start. Also, you clearly stated that the blower was pulling 12.5 amps and did your calculations based on it pulling 12. Had you accounted for the other .5 amp in your calculations then the anticipated run time would have been closer to that which it should “in theory” be capable of.
Rather, you should have said “If 1.5A = 60 minutes, then 12.5A = 7.2 minutes (or 7 min 12 secs).” Ultimately, your experiment still did not support this but, statistically, it was closer. I’d be very interested to see if it could in fact meet it’s advertised run time by controlling the exact amount of amps being pulled. Although, I’m not sure how you would go about achieving that! In the end, still a good video. Looking forward to more from you.
More to come
A leaf blower for the example used was informative but a test using more common items used with the 18 volt batteries such as drills, saws and other commonly used power tools around the house would have been more applicable for that battery pack. A leaf blower using a 40 volt battery pack regardless of the brand name would definitely be a better option. Your video was presented very well--Thanks
Glad you liked the video. I choose a blower because they have much higher power demands than some other tools. That kept the video shorter. Thanks again for your comment
As a diehard ryobi fan....i would suggest your numbers are pretty close to correct....in my experience blowers really suck the juice as opposed to a drill, impact, etc....im sure other platforms can get more runtime, but essentially all the big brands are using high quality lithium batteries...so I doubt the difference would be massive...
Blowers suck up the battery power that's why i choose to do this test with a blower. Thanks for comment
@@Kitearmy so an 18v weed wacker with a 1.5Ah battery would give me more than 7 minutes? (Same brand, Ryobi)
@@AndrewDaniele87 yes - maybe
Great video keep up the good work. What do you think about a budget Rigid Wet Saw for DIY user . Do you have any recommendations for a wet saw? Home use
I have used this for my bathroom project: amzn.to/30KaDQN
Ok, 1st thing I have to say is that you are brave to dive into the world of testing lithium batteries. Everybody out there thinks they are experts in the field and it's very hard to please these people with any type of test that anybody does. Having a bit of an electronics background I would mention that V should not be related to power ( W ) as you mentioned. V would better be related to speed... JMHO. Power ( W ) is V x A so it is the combo of the 2. I agree with you on the fact that you say Ah is related to runtime as Ah is the size of the "electron" tank and the more electrons you have to play or capacity, the longer the runtime should be. I also agree that if you increase V you increase your power...that's just math. One thing to point out is the voltage drop as the battery discharges and hence the following power decrease...which is normal. The battery does not stay at full voltage as a load is applied so that has to be taken into consideration and messes with the math. Also the motor, battery and connecting wires heat up which create resistive losses and more loss of power and runtime. If you pulsed that battery and let it recover and cool down after each pulse or short run, I bet you would get the rated runtime. These are just a few observations from years of racing r/c cars and watching a lot of EV related shows. I am certainly no expert on lithium batteries...just making observations. And speaking of that, why did your test meter show a current reading at no load? Did you "zero" the meter? I always enjoy your videos and your efforts to do demos of these battery related products and appreciate all the effort and time that goes into them. You are creating a forum for discussion about these products and deeper learning of them...good on ya mate! Cheers, John ;)
I have been toying with making this video for a long time. I knew it would be at my own peril but what the heck. Also when I was making this video, my target audience was my mother - who has no clue at all about batteries but has found her way into the cordless yard tool isle and made some very poor decisions. Like my mom, their are so many people who have no idea about volts or Ah and how it relates to tool performance - this is the purpose of this video to explain those numbers in the simplest way possible.
Like you mentioned, anyone who has a better way to explain these numbers to my mom - by all means - lets hear what you have to say.
Ok then, now I see where you are coming from ;) Bless you heart for helping your mom with her cordless power tool decisions. I hope she doesn't get turned off battery power and learns from your examples as well as others out there. Keep putting up the good fight Andrew! Cheers, John ;)
Got to take care of granny
Finally freed up some time to catch up with my favorite vloggers and you're one of them! Had a really HEA VY week with a mini road trip, overnight camp out in my Prius and a morning surf sesh with my new wetsuit and surfboard to start the week. Then came home to work a second job Tuesday night and the rest of the week worked my regular job and I also helped install a small above ground pool for my wife and grand daughter so there wasn't any time to watch TH-cam. Oh yeah...I also spent hours trying to edit my trip and surf sesh that I just vlogged. So here I am finally checking yours out...whew! Cheers, John ;) P.S. I haven't got your parcel yet...kinda weird isn't it? Hopefully it will be here soon ;)
No one's going to accuse you of being lazy....I just spent the week at the beach.
Yahoo...good for you! I hope you got some kitesurfing in during the time! Happy Independence Day!...if I get too busy again to say it closer to the date...lol! BTW...I used to be very lazy but now there's not enough hours in the day to do all the things I need and want to do...yeewww! Cheers, John ; )
What about the 9 Milliamp hour battery ? Is that thing worth the price
This is a good example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. First, this is not a valid test of battery capacity - you need a fixed resistive load to measure capacity. Second, almost all manufacturers use the same 3 brands of 18650 cells - Samsung, LG and Sony. The battery packs are simply rated by the cells installed 1500mAH = 1.5 AH, 3000mAH = 3 AH etc. Higher capacity is achieved by arranging cells in parallel. If you open a Dewalt, Milwaukee, Craftsman or Ryobi battery you will find the same cells installed. Reviewer is incompetent and shows obvious bias.
Danger is my middle name. BTW...I think i'm very competent at showing my bias - Ryobi is cheap and it shows! But I still love Ryobi Fanboys.
I own some Ryobi tools, however Dewalt is my main brand for power tools. That being said all brands manufacture both excellent and crap tools. My Ryobi 18 gauge nail gun is best $129.00 I ever spent on a battery operated tool. Anyone that doesn't know the difference between watts and volts should not be rating the battery capacity of anything. You are proof that any imbecile with a cell phone can make a TH-cam video.
Just to have someone of your intellectual caliber and knowledge of electrical engineering, comment on my videos is thrilling (and most importantly, lucrative). Thanks to your ongoing support, I'm going to dedicate my next Ryobi tool review to you :)
I appreciate the acknowledgement but no thanks. I think you should stick to making videos you're qualified for like blowing wet grass and balancing beach balls. Enough said - Mike out.
I see that you have watched all of my videos! Mike - you earned yourself an attaboy!
Ryobi is underrated. I get sick of people low rating their tools like they are for amateurs. I'm pretty picky and I think Ryobi can handle big jobs. I've broke off bolt heads with Ryobi when I was taking it easy. Milwaukee is better, but I have never wished I went with Milwaukee instead of Ryobi. Also Ryobi batteries last way longer than I expected.
That 6Ah battery... was it allowing the blower to draw more than 12.5A?
That's really interesting because if it is, then the bigger batteries area also allowing the blower to be more effective and also would mean less run time.
Really simple explanation. Thanks for this.
Glad it was helpful!
The nominal spec is tested under the idea of controlled conditions, such as temperature, discharge rate, etc. Any test under a different condition will yield a lower number". You got ~85% of specs, which is not too bad, and 95% is an unrealistic expectation if tested under a condition like yours..
True
Amazing video 🙌🏽🙌🏽🤩 it was tooooooo clear
Awesome
The thing is, your meter is saying the blower is using 1.12 amps doing nothing at 3:52. I'd advise using something else to test. I know there are Fluke fans out there but I like my UEi meter just as much for the price. No Fieldpiece stuff.
Fluke fan here - just can't afford
I only have one because I used to do HVAC work. Also, the battery probably keeps around 10% or so reserve to prevent a full drain; as you probably know fully draining a li-ion battery kills it.
battery collapse - I have been working with robotics for a while and everyone pushes a battery too far once.
Why would a battery charge and after charging I'm assuming fully because it has all 4 bars but anyway when it's finished charging the charger starts reading defective. I have a bunch of batteries and it only does it to this particular battery on all chargers. Battery seems to work fine as far as I know. I'll drain it to 2 bars before charging. Any suggestions?
what manufacturer
Thankyou for this video! I feel like I have much better understanding of amp hours now, and what to expect from my cryobi battries.
Thanks for that
Time to “troll” and be “that guy”. 22 minutes at 12-12.5 amps plus 3 minutes at say 6amps equals more than 6ah. You even said in the video at full force it is 12.5 amps draw on the 1.5ah battery. Your test doesn’t show the amp draw on the 6ah battery that will provide more power to the tool, but with the 1.5ah amp output as the “standard” you still get 12.3ah draw on the blower meaning a 6ah battery would not give you 30 minutes usage. that being said the numbers provided by ryobi are much closer than the numbers you provided.
No, be that guy...so will I. I think the power drop off isn't as much a function of capacity as it is voltage "pressure". Wattage is "power". Amps are current or volume throughput. As you drain a battery its voltage drops. Eventually it can drop below what the device needs to function even though technically the battery still has a charge/capacity in it.
Watts(power) formula is W = V * A. At 18V and 12A the watts are 216. As the voltage pressure drops use say to 16V at 12A the watts are 192. At 14V and 12A watts are 168. Eventually drops low enough the device doesn't function.
Why is this important? Because not all devices using these 18v battery packs draw the same amps/current. The LED spotlights are an example. They draw far less current and cause a slower voltage pressure drop. LEDs are also very forgiving to voltage fluctuations, where electric motors are not. At a certain point there isn't enough volts to drive the motor even though there is still a remaining charge in that battery pack.
But I could be wrong.
@@ohdogwow2 yup many mistakes. too many to take this seriouse. I wished people would spent less time on annoiying jingles and crasy cutovers and more on research and facts. I also wonder why noone mentiones that the power of a motor is determined by the magnet field which is created by the flow of current (amps) and NOT voltage. The voltage says nil about how much force an engine can produce.
That was very helpful, I was wondering why my runtime was so short.
cool
I don’t think they over rated the batteries. Batteries are important in the R/C world, and that’s where I learned that you do not want to run your batteries down to zero. I’m assuming these batteries have a cut off when it nears somewhere around 3.5 volts.
Right if you run them down below 3volts the cells collapse
Have you tested the new 4 amp high performance battery compared to like the HP batteries
Yep - no difference as far as I can tell
How much amps did the blower pull off the battery on the 6Ah battery?
Very good presentation on ah. Def informed my buying decision.
Glad to help
Since 6Ah battery is heavier than 1.5Ah, did u account for how much power the person holding the blower will require and how much energy will they be losing while using 6Ah vs 1.5Ah battery?
just kidding, thanks for the great video. If u can tell me the weight of 6Ah and 4Ah batteries, that would be helpful.
you had me on that - lol
Thanks for the info
Sure thing
Wow, people get hot under the collar over a video. Dont like it? Move along. Everybody can't afford the most expensive tool a available no matter the brand. If it does the job, isn't that what counts. And for the record, I have DeWalt, Ryobi, and EGO battery operated tools. Different tools, price points, and jobs. I spend the money where i need it and save it where i dont. It's a good video for those wondering about the different volt batteries and amp hours. Good job. Those of you with better ideas, make your video.
Thanks mate - When I get suggestions from viewers about how to make a better video, I always recommend that they make their own video. When and if someone does this , they have a guaranteed subscriber from KiteArmy.
Thank you for the insite I know that I can have a 2ah battery but I can buy the bigger ah battery and it will still work as I'm not a professional worker more a diyer it helps
the 2ah will probably work for most DIyers
Thanks. Now I can finally make that purchase :)
cool!
What you should really do is a get a DeWalt adaptor and test 6ah DeWalt battery both on same blower.
That is an excellent idea
You did a great job on these battery review. I was curious about amp draw. I thought the tool itself would have a watt rating and this would give you amp draw? Anyway back to my original thought... when you buy into a system like this you are stuck in that platform. I would not be interested in another platform with more batteries and chargers sitting in my garage eating up space. I would just look into buying another battery to get longer run time. Plus the great thing about ryobi is myriad of tools in their arsenal. I don't think any other company competes with ryobi's tool diversity.
One more thing those batteries are new out of the package, are you not suppose to cycle them a few times to get best performance?
For most home owners, Ryobi is fine. No need to exercise lithium batteries - Charge them and go.
Helpful. Makes one think.
Thinking hurts...thanks for the comment
Great info thank you. I have been wondering how much power cordless tools really deliver. In your test 12.5A * 20V = 250Watts. I have heard that the 3ah and 6ah Lithium+HP batteries can deliver as much as 46A! If so, even 18V cordless tools can be significantly more powerful than many 120V tools.
Cool - something else to consider is that the largest household powered tools normally don't exceed 12 to 15 Amps
The issue is, drawing 46A for long will just melt things. That's cranking amps for a small car! And wires rapidly get very hot at that.
Ive got a 1,5 amp battery and want to buy a brushed circular saw. Do i need to buy a bigger battery aswell? Mainly doing small projects at my small house 😊
That should work
@@Kitearmy did work!
Learn something new everyday. Very good video sir.
Thanks mate - These days I feel like I'm learning tons of things each day
I guess you never heard of energy loss in the form of heat
Fake news
Love all the " Battery Expert " correction comments, they're such experts on the subject and have acquired soo much knowledge on the subject that they have no room left for enough common sense to post a link to their video to show viewers the correct scientific way that this test should have been done.
You can be expert painter but if not a soul other than yourself seen you paint are you really the best?
Amen to that. Also this video was geared at joe cordless tool buyer so some of the information is a bit light but appropriate for many.
th-cam.com/video/8uBcywBUTkw/w-d-xo.html
Here's a great video by someone who actually knows what they're talking about. You're welcome.
😂
Instead of voicing your derision, try contributing to the conversation. You added absolutely nothing.
You are incorrect that there is no standard for battery rating when in fact there is. The voltage is the sum of the cells and the amp hours is that rated for the cells by the cell manufacturer, or some low number multiple in the case of battery packs which have more than one series of cells in parallel, for example the Ryobi 4Ah and 6Ah packs both have two series of 2Ah and 3Ah (respectively) cells. Keep in mind that the cell manufacturer provides the specifics of the conditions under which the cells achieve that amp hour capacity, most particularly including the current. For years a common rate was C/10 but the new cell construction came long to optimize for capacity OR current so it is often true that the highest capacity major brand cells, can't be used at as high a current to achieve their rating.
Thank you - yes you are right that the cell manufacturers give the specs BUT the point I was making is that their is no oversight of tool manufacturers to make sure that their marketing dept does not exaggerate those ratings.
They aren't exaggerating the ratings. They are rating based on what the cell manufacturer did. There is no way they can give some lower rating that satisfies you and have it hold true across their entire tool line because they all draw different current. Further, any of them with a brushed motor draw significantly less current as the voltage drops. Lastly, this is typical of all cordless tool brands, that they list the one Ah capacitor for the pack, not a chart that shows different Ah capacity for every tool they sell that can use it.
Open the battery pack, get the manufacturer info off the cells, and lookup the datasheet for them. The manufacturer should state the current draw to achieve their Ah rating and then you can put a static load of that amount on the cells to see if they live up to the rating. If they do not then you either have defective cells, fake (generic) relabeled cells, or the manufacturer is fraudulently rating them and by manufacturer I mean the cell manufacturer, not Ryobi or any other tool brand.
There is a third factor. When you run a tool continuously you may find that the pack shuts down from thermal density (temperature) rather than battery depletion. In your case that does not appear to be so because the motor slowed down so much, but in other cases people have found their battery needed a rest because of heat buildup, which would be the tool manufacturer's fault rather than the cell manufacturer.
Great comments - thanks for adding this
Wants to know which Amp is strong one 4.0 or 5.0?
5
Good video. Can you paste a link to the song you played during testing? I've look for it on TH-cam but I can't find that exact track.
Surprised you could not find it as it is a famous protest song.... Blowing in the Wind, written and performed by Bob Dylan. Peter Paul and Mary also covered it, as did Pete Seger.
‘Overestimating the power’ = misselling! Here in the UK, misselling is a criminal offence by which manufacturers would be able to sell goods by deception. Incredibly serious = Jail time
Buy a corded blower like Toro and never worry about power unless you don’t have enough feet of 14 gauge extension cords
Nope - not foe me -check out EGO blowers
Can you do the same thing but with the ryobi riciprocrating saw
Blowers consume battery power like crazy - a reciprocating saw will run forever even with Ryobi batteries
I have ryobi p271 drill driver. Does those batteries fit in p271. Looking for another battery
If it's any 18v Ryobi, then yes
@@Kitearmy is it worth having 6ah or 4ah for the money
@@2502860 go 4Ah and save some money
question what amp battery do you for recommend for the 7-1/4 in. Miter Saw by ryobi and 5-1/2 in. Circular Saw? I have the 2.0 Ah Batteries, it was a combo set . 7-1/4 in. Miter Saw it ran for 25 minutes and the 5-1/2 in. Circular Saw it ran ran for 20 minutes. both battery was fully charge. any suggestions and thanks Rocky.
Go as big as you can get - I think they have a 9Ah
@@Kitearmy OK thanks you.
so my question is which tool /brand for the $50 more are you recommending?
for what kind of tool