Worst Cars of the 1960s: The 1962 Plymouth (Savoy/Belvedere/Fury) - A Car You Hate to Love
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Marc is back! Learn more about this 1962 Plymouth Fury, including how it got Chrysler's then-styling chief Virgil Exner fired and sent Chrysler into a continual seesaw of financial performance--and woes--from which it never recovered. This was the wrong car at the wrong time on many levels, and Chrysler paid dearly for it.
Special Guest Mark is terrific and you both are the best.
I am age 66 and being a retired mechanic, I will say that anyone who owned one of these back in 1962 had the most dependable car. I felt as a child when I saw one some people owned up the street saw it as a sissy wimps car, but that was because in the 60s we had some mean looking chrysler imperials and cadillacs and some big mean looking oldsmobiles, so based on that the manufacturers timing was off BAD. If I owned one today? I would keep it until my death because its mechanical dependability and reasonable to work on. I love your car to the guy in the video
My family had a Dodge Coronet 500, bought new in ‘69. I was quite the Chrysler fan for several years, after learning to drive on this car in 1970. It was a very rough car, rode poorly, squeaks and rattles abounded, AC went on the blink after about 3 years. Some problems with voltage regulator and alternator, but I believe those got fixed eventually. The 383 V-8 2 barrel was strong, as was the torqueflite transmission. I had always heard electrical components on 50s and early 60s Chrysler products were poor quality, but don’t know if that’s true in Mark’s experience.
@@johnlandacre767 Actually most all those cars rattled and had squeaks as far as your basic sedans of ford and even chevrolet in the time frame of 1969 model cars. As for electrical and those cars with voltage regilators that were mounted away from the alternator/generator THEY WERE ALL default of over charging and swelling batteries and just stopping altogether regardless of the make. It was GM cars auto line that had the best charging systems after the introduction of the delco remy alternator with the built in regulator around 1963. But the 69 dodge cornets developed rattles and squeaks same as your fords and chevrolets. Most people arent aware that luxury models such as olds and cadillac and lincoln use a 21 to even 24 gauge sheet metal as to where you cheaper cars use a 19 gauge. In my childhood we had cadillacs and oldsmobiles, but for the record my school buddies dad had this 1968 dodge monoca he bought new in 1968 and that was a great car because I rode in it a few times
@@EarlGuyton425 I drive a 1960 Plymouth 2 door hardtop almost daily since 1988. Almost 600 000km now. It never rattled, Not once . It is unibody btw. Like all Mopars except Imperial since September of 1959. And it is not my only unibody car. None rattles. Most dependable cars in automobile history. Only rust is a Problem. Once restored a 61 DeSoto Coupe, rockers, floors, etc gone and not even that rattled.
@@bigblockjalopy GREAT! Happy trails with it friend! I envy you but in a good way. Peace...🙏👍♐
@@bigblockjalopy The cars you mentioned are not unibodies. A unibody was common on mercedes cars and some american cars such as the mustang and the cougar in the 1960s. But your dodge darts and plynouth valiants and furys were all frame on chassis. Your 1960 plymouth 2 door you mentioned is a frame on chassis. If it were a unibody your engine mounts would secure to the shock towers, but yours has motor mounts that attach to the frame. It depends on whom reads your comment, can only know it is all made up. Your comment is all fiction. Someone from the Mil generation may not have caught this
My Dad had an early 60's Valiant, and I never realized that it was the Belvedere/Fury's little brother/progenitor. I think this car looks great. It was just ahead of its time.
ahead of its time?? in what sence?
Yes it was ahead of its time but unfortunately poorly executed. Today however they are interesting because of their quirkiness and rarity. I can't ever recall seeing one at a car show.
I had to inspect a Belvedere for it's brake tag once and loved it. Unique pushbutton shift. Never had seen one before😊
I'm with Marc -- this is quite a design, and there are a lot of interesting details on these cars. Thank you for asking Marc to share it with us.
I remember seeing these in the late 60s/ early 70s and they seemed hideous to my young eyes. Now, they look funky and cool.
You and Marc have great content on automotive history and are natural story tellers.
Love the channel!
"hideous" seems to be the "styling" trend of today! ;D
I actually liked these. Perhaps because it was so much less off putting than the valiant or they made a good looking police car, I am not sure. Regardless they did appear to be well made.
Mr. Shawnski; Ha, Valiant is among my all-time faves ever since it came out (I was 4; family friends had a stunning red wagon.) Eye of the beholder! 🤩🤢
This car is the closest I think we've ever seen to an American concept car becoming a reality. I think it's pretty magnificent for that reason alone. And this car is in exceptionally great condition!
People liked the Fury
63 Buick Riviera started a the very similar 1960 concept car.
How about the Pontiac Aztek?
@@zzoinks Was that a concept car design? I thought it was an intentional joke like the VW Thing.
The 3rd gen Challenger is nearly an identical twin of its concept. It's so close that I doubt most people would even notice it in a parking lot.
Thanks! Marc is always a great guest, and I agree with him 100%. These quirky Mopars are starting to grow on me.
Right on!
@@RareClassicCars yeah, but the 61's someone lost their minds though! ;D
Out of sheer desperation, I bought a nine year old 62 base model Dodge Dart sedan. It was rose beige, and I called it my pink, horse-face Dodge. It turned out to be one of the best and most reliable cars I ever owned.
Dodge Darts are good. The Duster was a nice car. Even when I was really little, I thought these cars were really ugly. I think the Valiant was ugly.
The 62 Dart was a B body. The A body equivalent to the 63 Dart was the Lancer. All those ubiquitous reliable six-cylinder and small V8 Darts over the next 15 years were A body cars. The Duster was a fastback version of the Valiant and Dart knocked one of those off. I have an E body Challenger, good-looking car they're even making a tribute to this day. There's a 96 year old man 3 doors down that has a early 70s 4-door Valiant in his garage that I'm sure he bought new on the lot. I just don't want to do anything about it or make an offer because, you're right, it's ugly. I'm not interested. Now there were some good looking Valiants. I had a 64 Valiant Signet convertible four speed six-cylinder. Good car and good-looking. I love looking at Old Beverly Hillbillies because they always had the old Chrysler iron. The first season Jane Hathaway was alternating between this Fury style and a Dodge 880. One of those episodes had that Valiant convertible like mine. Many others. Imperials, b bodies, a bodies, wagons, trucks. Good stuff, nostalgia. You always know what you're going to get.
@@nancyericson4263above comment was for Nancy Erickson about those ugly Valiants
I love the design of the Fury... I miss quirky cars. There are so few new ones now days
I agree William
The Pontiac Aztec of it's day.
Many of your older viewers will remember that this was the car that Ward Cleaver drove during the 1963 final season of Leave it to Beaver with the jazzy new music. In the beginning intro, you see the family getting into the car at home on the way, presumably to a picnic. Wally and the Beaver get into the back seat and the camera focuses on the Beaver. You also see the car in various scenes where Ward is pulling in the driveway when coming home from work. I was 12 in 1963 and thought, even then, how ugly this caw was at the time and figured Chrysler was trying to push sales by having the car in the show.
If you look closely you can see the rear glass is removed when they are backing out of the driveway.
I remember Ward Cleaver with his 1962 Plymouth.
A question to anyone out there, didn't that LITB car also have 3 taillights/side as opposed 2 as does this Fury being displayed? Maybe my memory has it wrong, but it would be nice to know one way or other.
@@brianm6530 The way you it in this video is what it is.Look at the later editions of leave it to Beaver.This same car.
Ward Cleaver drove a 1957 Ford Custom 300 for the first two seasons and then Plymouths and final four seasons.
This is better than anything Jay Leno has done in his entire TH-cam career. The amount of design detail explanation, from an actual GM designer, is nourishment for those of us that live and breathe automotive design. In our youth, we'd spend hours sitting inside of cars and examining the exterior wondering what the designers might actually have been thinking. Now we actually know from the mouth of a professional. A professional that even knows what the dash of a Lumina APV looks like just from memory. How on earth you found Marc is a mystery, but please never lose him!
He simply clings to my extreme levels of fame ;). Marc has a ton of knowledge, but I must say that I was the one who made the noted Lumina APV comment! Hehe. Thx for watching.
I agree
Thank you for bringing your designer friend back. It is interesting to listen to hear what he has to say. I hope he comes again. It was interesting to hear why the car flopped in the market. I think this is the same car that Ward Cleaver had on Leave It To Beaver.
He did?
I don’t even remember that!
Yes. This was on the later "Leave it to Beaver" episodes. The show was on from 1957-1963, so they had a couple of years to feature this weirdo set of wheels.😁🤣😂. Just kidding, Mark, this is a great example of the excesses of Mr. Exner. It is in beautiful condition, and is certainly unique, which probably is good, because if there had been two unique models in the market like this, two companies would have gotten into financial trouble. At this point in history, I don't hate it nearly as much as I did when it came out. (I was 8 years old). If I found one in good condition, I'd probably even buy it! Is this one for sale??😁
Miss Jane's car, on the Beverly Hillbillies. They always featured Chrysler products. I think they did well with that product tie-in. Thanks for the memories!
The final season intro ended with the Cleaver family loaded up in it, backing out of the driveway. Rear glass missing to eliminate glare.
Yes, nice part of those sixties tv shows is the great cars from the era seen. I like the Outer Limits because they had a deal with Ford for their cars and that's what I collect, like my 64 red (in B&W on OL) Comet Caliente that appeared in a few episodes.
I like the way it looks. I've always thought the early/mid 60's era of cars was a great one from the styling perspective anyway, where the manufacturers had put the period of monstrous land yachts with the chrome slathered on by the ton behind them, and were willing to take some chances with styling. Sadly, sometimes those experiments failed to catch on. It was certainly a better styling period than the current one, where a Ford looks like a Chevy which looks like a Toyota which looks like ...
Add me to the list of people who love the car.
A lot of right put together wrong. I always liked these orphans. If they had had curved side glass as Exner intended, the look would have been improved greatly as it would have emphasized the “fuselage” design. They were oddly ahead of their time.
This B platform went on to be a money maker for Chrysler as it became their intermediates in ‘65…the Satellite, Coronet, then Charger with the platform being modified again for the downsized full sized cars on the ‘79 R bodies…a reworked B body.
The R bodies were a total failure, sadly. Pretty but terrible .
@@tdvandy2 The take I've always heard on that story was that the R bodies were good cars, beloved by police forces and much better put together than the B-bodies, but that the 1980 bailout required their cancellation for political reasons. They might well have been a big hit when fuel prices collapsed in the mid 1980s. Its sad to see that one of the few things Chrysler got right during those years got tossed due to bad timing.
What's funny is the GTO came out a few years later and DeLorean proclaimed the GTO a muscle car.... Only problem was, Chrysler had downsized their line and their cars were the same length or a few inches longer with WAY MORE horses under the hood: 413 wedge, with dual carbs, putting out over 400 hp. It's sad this is the way Exner went out along with putting Chrysler in serious trouble in less than 5 years after.
@@chuckhaugan4970 I consider the ‘62 Dart and Plymouth the first real muscle cars…but the GTO was the first to be labeled as such.
@@jamesaandf Yeah, DeLorean was a marketing genius but, along with the 300 in the mid 1950's, Chrysler was first. It's a damn shame what Fiat is doing to a once proud company. I hope Chrysler returns to it's former glory in my life time, but I doubt it.
Yes, ‘fortunately’. Marc is always a fantastic guest with detailed knowledge. Own 62s - though not Chrysler. Sometimes overlooked year
I didn't like these when they came out but I really do now. A very unique design that sets it apart from others during that model year.
Love this video and car. It's a car that was about 10 years ahead of it's time. If it's original full size Plymouth Super Sport design had been produced and had the curved side glass, it would have been successful.
Collectable Automobile Magazine did a great feature on it years ago.
Saw many of them in the movie It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World.👍 Thanks again for a great 📷. Also these type early and mid sixties cars fueled my desire to be a auto stylist/designer when I was growing up.
I love the old Plymouth Fury. I once had a 1968 Fury 3 and it was a great car.
I hated this car when it came out. 4 yrs later a buddy had one with a 440. I was in love...
Retrofitted 440. Unavailable from Mopar until 1966.
@@garyblanchard1084 I'm don't remember but I'm sure it probably was. It was fast. He had put traction bars on it to keep the wheel hop down.
The 413 and the 413 max wedge were available the 62 and 63’s they were the “Super Stock Cars” in the Jan & Dean songs.
How cool to hear the history of the styling on this car! I started out not caring for it at all, but after the explanation, appreciating the features in a new way! Thank you both for the new perspective!
Love that this a 4door hardtop. No doubt it's an odd car but the dodge was weirder. I love them both and thx to Marc for articulating what I couldn't explain. Always thought they looked muscular and athletic and sporty and of course it's because of the long hood and short deck, but also the shallow dash and lack of beltline shoulder. Everything played together to a look of pared down performance...offset by the googie space age styling details that Marc quantified...so true and a period I loved even more than the jet-age. The performance look backed up by the great Mopar B and RB engines.
You guys are both great speakers and are great at conversation and 'splaining...hope to see more of Marc
Either make is and always unmistakable from 1-2 blocks away.
Actually, you explained it well
I don't see any problem there a 428 hemi would not fix
I am really enjoying this channel! I also appreciate the owner of this Plymouth has kept it in such a wonderful condition. That side profile shot left me dumbstruck - the proportions, the details. It's incredibly beautiful. OK as a foreigner, American cars above compact size are a difficult fit pragmatically speaking in the operating environments of most countries. There is no denying the sheer artistry of the styling - they are admired (and copied) the world over.
Thank you Adam. I love everything about this Fury. Love Mopars, mid century styling, the weird and the oddball. It's beautiful in my eyes! Keep up the great work on this channel.
Whenever I see these, I'm reminded of Sylvester in Mad, Mad World. Lotsa classics were wrecked in the making of that classic movie 🎥
Very nice to listen to Mark tell the story of the car. You two work well together! ... I would have loved some more demos on the interior, it seemed very distinct!
The driver's side of the front seat still retained that off center theme.
Hi, this is Marc with the '62. Thanks for your comment and yes, there's lots to talk about on the interior as well. We tried to keep it brief this time, as Adam and I are still learning about which format and segment length works best for the channel content. We may get back to that in another segment in the near future.
@@DSGNflorian Looking forward to it! Your enthusiasm and interest for these classic cars really is contagious
OMG, I love listening to people who know what they're talking about! This channel is outstanding!
Thanks for explaining why the dash was so shallow - I always wondered about that - they looked so spare to me at the time; I just thought they were being cheap, which in part they were. This car is certainly better looking than any specimen of this type of model that I ever remember seeing back then.
actually a favourite car with me. our family went on vacation in 1962 in a 1962 Plymouth. drove up into interior of British Columbia, car was tough loaded up with our family of seven, lots of power, strong car.
When I was a kid in the late 60’s I looked at these in awe that anyone would choose to hand over good cash to own one. I knew no one that owned one.
Amen to that !
as I recall in the 60's (yes yes I know, "if you remember the 60's you weren't there"), lots of kids were "handing over good cash" for lots of things, like little bags of something looking like oregano!! ;D LOL
In some ways, I think this car looks incredibly modern.
except a lot more style!
Hi, this is Marc with the '62 Fury. I agree, it does. All the "Jetsons-Style" cars of the transitional years between the late 50s and early 60s have a distinct futuristic quality that wasn't present before or after. While the '62 Plymouth wasn't the most extravagant of that crop of cars, it was probably among the cleanest and purest interpretations of "Space Age" cues, which gives it that modern feeling today.
Mid 20th century, sure!
yes...exner was on the cutting edge
I think the beauty is that it was what we project the 'future' to be. Yes, "Jetsons". And Disney Tomorrow Land where it is just an aspirational, "coming soon".
My heart is breaking over the sales. Just a classic human story- we have greatness within our grasp..... and turn away.
I absolutely love this car! Such a cool design! Mark definitely needs his own TH-cam channel!
I was 14 when his cars were introduced and seemed as though they were having a battle with AMC for the ugly car contest. I do agree today it’s a very unique car and very interesting. Adam, you’re doing a great job keep up the good work.
My dad bought a 1962 Dodge Dart 330 station wagon brand new. It had five options on it, power steering, push button automatic transmission, AM radio, deluxe wheel covers and rear facing third seat. Although the styling was kind of quirky, that thing was tough as nails. My dad invented the 10,000 mile oil change and 20,000 mile tune up interval (no, you weren’t supposed to go that long, but he did anyway). That slant 6 took it with nary a whimper. It’s a shame Chrysler blew it on the styling, they really had performance and reliability dialed.
I read an interview of Exner a while back where he blamed the styling failure on Chrysler’s rushed downsizing. He said the final products looked like “plucked chickens”, and the original full-sized renderings were much more attractive.
That "rushed downsizing" was explained by Marc as the country club easedropping story.
62 dart wagons were the best looking wagons ever made.
Thanks for the historical account. I love this car. It always surprises me to learn the background and the public’s reception of iconic products, whether they are well received or not. I was born in ‘62 and remember seeing these cars and the valiants of the early ‘60s. I studied Design in school and worked for many years as a graphic designer which probably explains why I love these “weird” cars.
I always thought these were "interesting" looking cars. My first car was a used 1964 Dodge Polara that shared some design cues with this car. It was already a 10-year old car, but I liked it. The 318 and TorqueFlite were solid, too.
Yup, a "bullet proof" car, as a teenage driver of it (borrowed my uncle's) I can attest to that!! :D LOL
318s were great motors.
@@muffs55mercury61 The 64 Polara of my uncle's had a 383, with plenty of "beast-mode" for the roads back in the day, but my dad had a 318 in his 64 Dodge truck. Never seemed to give any trouble and it had plenty of torque; he was a carpenter and loaded it "up to the gills" a lot. And economical too, we sure did not want to waste too much of that 35 cent/gallon leaded gas back then, eh!! :D LOL
@@ronschlorff7089 The 60s had a lot of improvements such as better suspensions and higher rear axle ratios so the engine isn't screaming over 50 mph. In the first half of the 1950s there were still outdated things such as front lever shocks, torque tube drivelines and those low rear axle ratios. GM was bad for that.
I always looked at these sedans and thought they were a little funky. Now I understand- they were!
In the mid 60's my mom had a Plymouth Fury III wagon. For long trips she would fold the rear seat down and put in the mattress from the foldaway couch. Then fill the back with pillows and blankets and toys, and off we went to visit grandpa in Indianapolis, Indiana. It always took two days from NYC. I loved hearing the truckers blow their horns after my prompt from the rear window. We would climb back and forth from the back back to the front seat and have a blast! Can not even imagine how much we would have hated being buckled in like children have to do today.
Love your videos!
Love your droll delivery!
Another great episode with Marc! One of the best videos you've presented. Early '60's car styling explained. I'm learning all of these names for styling features that I've seen for many decades: e.g., "wind split." I like all old cars, even early '60's mopars. My parents owned a '61 Dodge Pioneer Wagon when I was a kid, so that had something to do with it, I'm sure. That car was much weirder looking than the '62 Plymouth, and the '61 Plymouth was the weirdest of all of them. The '62 Plymouth looked better than the '62 Dodge, too. In all honesty, though, very few American cars looked really good in the early '60's. There were a few American cars from the era that were really pretty, like the full sized '61 Pontiac bubble top, '63 Olds 88 and '63.5 Galaxie, but most had that awkward look of the era. I used to like '62 Impalas, but not so much anymore.
Needed more Info on drive train though!
Besides being very knowledgeable, Marc speaks very clearly and precisely -- a refreshing and all too rare thing to hear in this day and age.
Love your channel. Admire your incredible knowledge. But I must point out a few things about MOPAR at this juncture. I grew up in the 60s-70s, down the street from a Dodge dealer and in a town with a very strong Chrysler-Plymouth-Imperial dealer. This was an era of EXTREME brand loyalty, and the only time you left one brand was if you were “moving up.” My Dad’s family was solidly Pontiac. Any family gathering we had would look like a Pontiac commercial. My mom’s family was solidly Chevrolet, converting from Plymouth in the early 50s. My dad moved my mom into her first Pontiac in 1956 and she was a convert … but I remember my dad and my mom’s brother arguing over which was better, Chevrolet or Pontiac … and they were heated arguments. Then, in 1966, my dad got his first Oldsmobile. Go figure. From that point on, we were a split household. My mom had Pontiacs and my dad had Oldsmobiles. But as I reflect on my childhood neighborhood, I remember the Chevrolet houses, Ford houses, Plymouth houses, Dodge houses, etc. And people stuck with these brands through multiple purchases.
Where you saw some people flip was from MOPAR to GM. I can’t recall anyone leaving Ford. I do remember two families who left Chevrolet for Ford in the late 70s. I NEVER saw anyone move to MOPAR. Their reputation was always bad.
Let’s go back to the late 50s “Forward Look” … beautiful cars … could have been the game changer. But the 57s were riddled with poor build quality and rusted! The rust issues didn’t show until they were 4-5 years old … right about 1961-62. Wherever you saw a late 50s MOPAR, chances are you saw rust spots. You didn’t see that as frequently on other makes. On top of that, the 60 and 61 MOPARs were the ugliest cars Detroit ever turned out. Spaceage yes! Attractive no! We made fun of the 61 Plymouth, calling it a giant bug from outer space. Nobody wanted to be seen in those. They were … in one word … hideous.
So MOPAR had already sunk itself before 1962.
The 62 Dodge was, by far, the ugliest member of the family, and yet I knew several people who owned them (because they were still a darn sight better than the 60 and 61 models). I never noticed them being smaller than the other cars at the time, but I was a kid. They were weird looking for sure.
Here’s where they really went wrong. Despite all the design gimmicks, you spend way more time behind the wheel of your car than you do staring at its profile. The big failure of Plymouth and Dodge in this era was the dashboard!! Yes, the Dashboard!!! (I don’t remember the Chrysler dashboard from this era and my Aunt’s Imperial dashboard was completely different.) But when you got behind the wheel of a 62-64 Plymouth or Dodge, it felt like you were behind the wheel of a VW Beetle. No shelf. No style. Completely utilitarian. Metal and plastic (and the metal seemed harsh … and the paint chipped). It screamed cheap. You were right up against the windshield. In an era where we didn’t talk about safety much, this dash setup felt dangerous.
So even when they restyled in 63 (and those Dodges were beautiful), getting inside was no better. It felt like a WV Beetle. You never could escape the fact that your neighbor’s Ford or Chevy or Pontiac had a beautiful dashboard … and thereby felt more luxurious.
All that said, the 62 should have been the final straw in Exner’s career at Chrysler, but it did not kill full size Plymouths. A whole host of issues killed full sized Plymouths … starting with the poor build quality of the 57s and those hideous 60-61s.
But I remember riding my bike passed many “two-Fury” households well into the 70s.
The report that came out in 1974 calling Chrysler the most polluting/least efficient car manufacturer was one thing. I don’t remember the source, but I remember everyone talking about it. My aunt traded her Imperial for a Grand Marquis at that point. I remember everyone who had MOPARs had big oil stains on their driveways. I remember the endless badge engineering that seemed so obvious on Plymouth and Dodge. I remember lots of jokes about MOPARs. Lots of things killed Plymouth. The 62 gets way too much blame.
It was amazing how many parts were shared between Pontiac, Chevy, Oldsmobile, and even Buick. Some even had doors and fenders that could be interchanged if you just drilled new holes or patched some. Door handles, etc could be easily switched. Of course similar things could be done with Ford/Mercury and possibly Lincoln.
Look at the original design for the 62 furys. It was much better than this design. The original design would had kept Chrysler in the running and kept Fury neck and neck with Impala and Fairlane. Exner wasn’t good at immediately downsizing from his original design for he had an artistic mind and couldn’t deviate from a certain vision that he had in his mind. Again, it wasn’t his fault that this model was so unusual for this year. It was faulty intel that was given to Chrysler and Exner was the fall guy. Actually the 63 lineup was done by Exner with the oversight of Engle and Chrysler execs.
Exner was forced to ditch any remnant of the 62 design and come up with a sleeker cleaner design to which he had done. He reportedly had commented that he had given the execs what they wanted and given them a more conventional design
I like the videos with both Marc and Adam. Adam’s experience as a number crunching financier and Marc’s take on design give a tremendous amount of context as to not just how these cars came about, but WHY they came about. Keep up the great work!
I like the short dash. It makes the dash and the inside of the windshield easy to clean.
Definitely we are fortunate to have Mark join the channel!
Just recently came upon this page and find this retrospective fascinating. My Dad was a big car guy and we grew up in Fords in the 60's and 70's....
Further to the Bill Newberg intelligence: According to an April 1995 article in Collectible Automobile, he issued some very specific orders to the design and engineering people for the crash downsizing program they had to execute. This included things like a width no more than 72 inches between the door posts, a wheelbase no more than 116 inches, no curved side glass, limits on total glass area and bumper size, limits on bright moldings and metal-finishing of body seams, and even trying body-sharing with the Valiant/Lancer. The original full-size proposals for the '62 models were ordered to be junked, so there would be no turning back. You can only imagine how design and engineering reacted to that sort of micromanagement.
Instability in Chrysler's top management in the first part of 1960 led to Tex Colbert ceding the President's job to Newberg, who then got fired himself for corruption charges. That opened the door for Lynn Townsend, from Chrysler's accounting firm Touche Ross, to take the Presidency. It was Townsend who initiated another crash program to bring the cars back into the mainstream for '63. Townsend gave Exner assurances he would not be held responsible for the '62s, but when they were so poorly received by dealers and the public, someone had to wear it other than the departed Newberg, and Exner was fired in November, 1961, not long after they were introduced. The article discusses how Townsend then hired Elwood Engel away from Ford to replace Ex and tells a story about his first few days in the building after Exner had left. Looking at the proposed '63 redesigns, he reportedly said to Townsend "These are good-looking cars. What's the big deal?"
The '62 models were indeed a sales disaster, selling just 182,520 units, not much different than the bizarre 1961 from what I can determine. The revised '63 boosted that to 263,292, and the '64 improved on that, increasing to 297,293 units. Even at that, you could argue that the assertion by Marc that these marked the end of Plymouth being a competitor in the low-priced three segment was true. But the bigger problem Plymouth was facing was the 1960s competition from Pontiac, who were building a very appealing product in that era which Plymouth just could not match. Starting in '62 Pontiac went on a roll, selling over 500,000 copies, then by '64 they were almost up to 700,000 annual production, and in '66 they went past the 800,000 mark. They were a juggernaut, and Chrysler had no chance of competing. I would suggest it wasn't the '62 Plymouth that led to that make's later woes, but Pontiac.
Chevy was the top seller in 1962.
@@bobbyheffley4955 As they always were in that era, routinely selling a million units a year.
@@ab348 Ford was the sales leader in 1966 and 1971
@@bobbyheffley4955 Not sure what either of your responses have to do with this?
Thanks for this! I am a Mopar guy to the core and this was a fascinating overview!
This was fascinating. I recall seeing this car in my youth and even though we were a Mopar family, I always thought it was curiously ugly, as in…why would any company release such a thing? Honestly there were a lot of less than handsome cars in 1959-63, Virgil Exner being responsible for the lion’s share perhaps, but I don’t want to start a fight with Edsel fans or anyone holding onto grandpa’s 1960 Chevy….
But this video was eye opening. The little styling motifs and call backs were interesting. And the profile is gorgeous. Plus the hints of styling cues that would appear in later cars. The partial fuselage sides, the peaked windows-things I never noticed. Really makes me reassess these cars. Great video!
I bought a 1972 Fury Gran Sedan pillarless four-door sedan almost by accident - my son needed a cheap car fast. I grew to love its beautiful shape and high-torque 360. It was great on the highway. It's still sitting here under the carport. :(
Great segment. I appreciate all of your knowledge about the car industry and design. I for one love that car as I do most from that era. Love the space age themes.
Ever since I first discovered the magic of Chrysler Corp. in my early teens, the ‘62 Plymouth has been one of my top favorites!
I feel greedy because I honestly like all four model years of these B body Plymouths. That off-center wind split of the prototype would’ve been awesome to see in production! I’ve always been intrigued by the original full-size scale of the styling these models were intended to have. Some styling studio photos exist but not nearly enough for me.
Im still suprised how Virgil Exner got it so right in the 50s with the forward look cars, only to crash so hard with those early 60s designs.
LSD?
I just love Virgil Exner's early 60s designs. I am in the extreme minority.
His designs were downsized by Chrysler after Exner had a heart attack
@LP
No, that would be Cary Grant ;~}
It's refreshing to hear that it was regarded as ugly back then, like I thought it was back in the mid 1970s, or people think it is today.
It’s funky and definitely has some cool details, love those creases in the rear quarter panels. Interesting that this one car changed the fortune of the Chrysler Corporation, I had no idea that was the case. Thanks Adam and Mark for the great content!
It's amazing to me how spot on this GM stylist is on 50's and 60s. Okay so, please have him explain the Aztec from GM. What do think Adam?
Being an oddball makes it collectable today. Something about that rear deck and round taillights reminds me of a Corvair.
Agreed
Is it awkward? Yes. But in pieces, most of the design is quite handsome. For example, I find the rear reminiscent of Chevrolet Impalas 60-61 and the Corvair. think this is one of those cars that look better with the longer 4 door roofline than the Coupe body. As you point out, the styling was only part of the failure of this car...
That being said, it is a shame that this was Exner's final hurrah and not the early forward look cars. I think by 1960 he had already begun to really see a decline in overall design. Elwood Engle's followup designs might've followed in the footsteps of Lincoln and other Ford designs, it's hard to argue that Engle's sharp, squared off designs were extremely stylish.
Interestingly, the 62 Plymouths and Dodges all shared one roof stamping for all two and four door hardtops and sedans.
Awkward and unpopular in 1962 helping the Mopar market share shrink to under ten percent. Only the Chrysler saved the model year by selling well. And no DeSoto since the 1920s.
@@garyblanchard1084 Desoto actually came back mid year as the Dodge Custom 880.
Born in ‘54, my interest in cars began in 1960. Even then I viewed Chrysler product designs as weird and it was not until watching this and other channels that I learned Chrysler had had a great run for design popularity in the mid to late ‘50s. (Exner’s earlier work). Compared to the ‘62 full size Chevys and Fords, one can certainly understand the public rejection. But standing alone today, I think it is certainly iconic. I’ve also become quite an admirer of the first generation Valiant with its almost full sized interior yet small exterior size and faux Continental spare tire trunk lid.
Being an odd ball myself I like similar cars 😁
Thanks for covering The 1962 Plymouth (Savoy/Belvedere/Fury) - I'm 71, but don't remember this model too much from back then but I remember it more now as I get a better glance. Interesting background info, too. I seem to re member a neighbor two streets over who had a Belvedere and they took a bunch of us kids to a local swim club. Nice memories there.
More appealing now than it was then.
These chats with Mark are great and good fun.
The 62 Mopars are definitely controversial but I think the 62 Plymouth is tame compared to the 62 Dodge...or even the 61 Plymouth now that thing was weird!
I love them all though!
Beautiful car. I would love to find one in salvageable condition, but not perfect. That way I could build it into the asymmetrical design that was intended. I think that would be awesome
There is a white 4-door hardtop behind an old abandoned building in Pascagoula, MS currently. Been working @ the Chevron refinery down here for nearly a year. Body looks good, never stopped to look underneath. Obviously has been there awhile.
not hard to search out, but I've found that the shipping cost sometimes outweighs the cost of the car!
My dad had a Belvedere that was just like this when I was about 8. Thanks for a blast from the past. I enjoy your content almost as much as JL.😁
I respect Marc's feedback considerably since he is a very educated man. Personally, i have to admit that i think this car was Chrysler's ugliest car ever made. But...I can see why he is drawn to it since it's definately a very UNIQUE car of any time period.
I think the 1961 Plymouth ,all models, was the ugliest car ever made by any manufacture.
@Kenneth
Hiya Ken-
Haven't you ever seen a '60 Fury?😳
@@bdpopeye I would have to agree. The 1961 lineup, especially Plymouth and Dodge, was the year of ugly. The '62s were a HUGE improvement.
@@bdpopeye Those were bizarre looking.. As time went on, they looked more and more weird.. I think the last time I saw one on the road it was 1979 or so. It looked like a genetic experiment that had gone horribly wrong.
Thanks Adam for having guest Mark on and pointing out features of the ‘62 Fury that I and others viewers weren’t aware of. Very well done!
I tend to also like cars that are unorthodox in their styling, so I find a fair amount to appreciate about this car. I don't think that it is ugly, but it fails to be beautiful because the design appears somewhat incoherent to me. I believe that certain aspects of the design are quite beautiful but as an overall design it is not harmonious. I actually think the Valiants of the era are less appealing, but they do possess a kind of awkward charm
I really hated the phony spare on the trunk of the Valiants. Who thought that one up?
@@dave1956 'twas borrowed from the Imperial, I believe. I never cared for toilet seat/fake spare tires either. Amazing what popular culture does with bad ideas like the fake spare and the vinyl roof. (Also a terrible idea, but extremely popular for a time.)
@@johnlandacre767
I knew that as I am a 50’s-60’s car nut. I don’t think that it was ever a good look.
I love how it looks like a 2dr hardtop, but has the practicality of a 4dr. If you look at it to fast you could almost miss that fact.
Great content of your videos and the history you always provide is truly amazing and just goes to show how much I really did not know and I’m 71. Keep up the fantastic work you do.
Same roof, windshield and back light on two and four door hardtops and sedans.
Always look closer
Jane Hathaway of the Commerce Bank of Beverly Hills drove the convertible version of this car - her employer , Milburne Drysdale, was of course chauffeured about in an Imperial Le Baron.
Later on Ms Hathaway traded it for a red 1965 Dodge Coronet ragtop. One of our neighbors had the station wagon version also in red.
@@garyblanchard1084 th-cam.com/video/jAtx5uRGqj8/w-d-xo.html
Jane Hathaway later drove a 1963 Dodge Polara convertible and a 1964 Dodge Polara convertible before the 1965 Dodge Coronet convertible
I remember that the Cleaver's (Leave it to Beaver) had a 1962 Plymouth. In the opening credits you see them get in the car and back down the driveway while looking back.
This car never had to grow on me, I loved the front especially. After selling my 63 wagon for a stupid amount of money, I picked up a 62 Belvedere with 361 A/C, power windows and steering and of course the typewriter TorqueFlite for $400. It was my favorite. I even got good at doing the rear brakes, which required axle removal. Would love to find any 62 right now.
Never heard of a care requiring axle removal to replace the rear brakes; were they inboard?
@@pcno2832 drums integral with the hubs. Lots of guys put 65 & up axles on to avoid the hassle of pulling axles or hubs. Properly adjusted and repaired, they stopped the car fine.
Over all, I really like the way this car looks. I personally would go with a different tail light design. Overall a beautiful car. I have always preferred mid sized cars.
"mid-size" then is a "boat" today, but yes, I have a '67 Mercury Cyclone about same size. Has the "motel bed on wheels" in the back seat too; so, back in the day, it was big enough for "certain activities". :D
The guy who lived a few doors up from me was the Plymouth dealer. He always drove different cars and in '62 his wife drove one like yours except it was white. Had a big motor with duals and I always thought it was a cool looking car. Sounded powerful! I was 12 yrs old. Thanx for the memory.
Chrysler sure had some wild styling in the early sixties.
The DeSoto Grotesque 550 was my favorite
Good presentation and historical info on the 62 Mopars. A face only a mother could love,. Interesting tidbit, in the Beachboys song "Shutdown", the Corvette gets a name, Stingray, but the Mopar doesnt get a name, it's just a "413". I am restoring a 62 Polara 500 now, and appreciate these outlier cars.
This is such a terrific video...unique details and incredible history of the era. I really appreciate this car and actually love the shape...the back lights are an acquired taste!! Thank you so much!
Love it! Alway's a fan of Exner's Mopar's. In my opinion, way cooler than the '62 brick GM and Ford design's.
I would love a '62 Sport Fury convertible or Belvedere/Savoy with a 413.
dunno what you said but the "413" caught my attention. Was in "the little old lady from Pasadena" song, a red 63 Dodge. Thing is, I lived just a block off Colorado Boulevard, in Glendale CA!! Never saw her!!! LOL ;D
Amazing how a car that was considered a dud when knew has aged so well in 60 years compared to its contemporaries! A friend of my mother's had a new '62 Fury sedan that we took a trip to the Pacific Northwest and Canada from Waco, TX in the summer of 1963. I did much of the driving and enjoyed it. I've got a rear photograph of it and one thing has always puzzled me that it only has the one red tail light on both sides, but not the white ones, which I'm assuming were backup lights. It makes it look very cheap and bare from the rear because most makers used tail lights to enhance the rear end.
I don't think backup lights were required until sometime in the 1960s; could they have been an option?
@@pcno2832 Hi, this is Marc with the '62 Fury. You are absolutely correct, back-up lights were optional then and usually only standard on the top-line models. The base 1962 Plymouth Savoy had only one tail lamp per side. A very de-contented look! Triple tail lamp clusters (with an additional red lens inboard of the back-up light) were standard on the "Sport Fury" special coupe and convertible models introduced later in the 1962 model year, but frequently fitted to the lower-end models either as dealer-installed accessories or right from the factory. When you see a '62 Plymouth today (which is not often), frequently the triple cluster has been fitted as part of the restoration...
I actually prefer the dodge version of this (Polara / Dart / 330) with the second pair of headlights inset into the grille. Funnilly enough, in '64 they put a trunk that was almost as long as the bonnet on the things!
Man...the '63 and '64 Dodges ('64 especially) looked cool. But the '62 Dodge is a very odd duck 🤨
I love that 62 Plymouth body style and 4 door hard tops are sooooo cooool!
Exner's stuff is far from beautiful to me. But it's absolutely awesome, and I love it.
My father bought a 1962 Dodge Dart 330 in a deep brown color. I had to install seats belts in the front seats. The car had a slant 6 engine which according to my father's recording keeping of gas consumption, had averaged 22 mpg at times. Because the style was not accepted by the general public (GM and Ford determined what style should be at the time), not many of the cars was sold and thus Chrysler was forced to sell off the cars cheaply, most of which were purchased up by police departments. I would drive the car on the Belt Parkway in Brooklyn at the posted speed limit, 50 mph, and was was hardly passed by other drivers who assumed that it was an unmarked car. When NYC started buying the other brands, the car was passed frequently.
I'm proud to like those cars. Chrysler made some enduring contributions at that time.
Some say enduring others say infamous. Leave it there.
I drove a find example of one of these back in the 1980s. When I turned a neighbor residential corner at low speeds, I thought I was going to fall out the window, the car was so softly sprung. But I loved my 1964 Dodge Dart 4 door and my 1966 Plymouth Valiant Signet two door hardtop.
In 1962 I was still in high school. The people next door bought a new Dodge wagon (same body as this) for the mom to drive to work. I worked near her so she gave me a ride in it every day. I thought It was gorgeous then and I think both of them (Plymouth and Dodge) still are.
Seems like a nice lady
To my eye the 1961 Plymouth got the prize for bazaar styling. The '62 was very toned down in comparison. My favorite Plymouth of the period was the '64.
Agree about the ‘61 Plymouth having bizarre styling. In my opinion, ugliest Plymouth ever. But…the ‘62 styling “cleaned up” by Elwood Engle for ‘63 actually made for a very attractive car, albeit a still little too small in comparison with its competition. That would be corrected in ‘65.
1962 Plymouth styling was improved from both the year before and the year before that. And improved every year through 1966 when Mopar first introduced 440 V8.
I was a used car dealer for 40 years.
My favorite was a 63 Sport Fury Convertible. It was one of my first cars. Beautiful 30k miles. Sold it to raise cash to pay the hospital bill for the birth of my first child. $1500. In 1976.
This was not Virgil Exner original design. He was the scapegoat for this design.
The Forward Look ended in 1961
I remember these cars from when they were new. I always thought they were distinctive looking. These "B-body" cars also had a lot of things going on mechanically that high performance fans loved.
Although a few of these cars were still on the road when I was young, I got to know them through the film It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, where they were quite prominent, both in its station wagon form and as police cars. I never really thought the '62 Plymouth was particularly ugly. Someone pointed out that the side flares and long hood may have been retro themes from late '20s/early '30s cars.
When analyzing the styling of this Fury, two things really jump out from the eye of a potential consumer.
First, I would really miss having any kind of substantial shelf area above the instrument panel! How many times do you hop in a car and temporarily throw something on top of the dash until you get yourself settled into position? That simple, everyday act would be virtually impossible in this car! The only modern example I can think of where this same design element occurred was on early-2000 era Jeep Liberty’s, which also had a ridiculously shallow upper dash area!
The second is if this vehicle had been a Chevrolet, you would swear to God it was a BelAir or even a Biscayne from it’s spartan exterior appearance! Who in their right mind would pay “Impala or Caprice” money to get “Biscayne or BelAir” styling cues……????
Different strokes. What you mentioned is one of the reasons I love the short dash.
That's almost but not quite it. What you might ask is what if the full size Chevrolet had been designed with Corvair styling cues. The problem with asking that question is that in a way, the '61 and '62 Chevy did have Corvair styling cues. The bottom edge of the windshield had a shape that was close to that of the Corvair, if, to be fair, also copied from the '60 Eldorado Brougham. Round tail lights were on both the Corvair and the full size Chevy of the time. Actually, some design cues of the '63 full size Chevrolet were previewed on the Chevy II, which debuted in '62. Making the bottom edge of the windshield and front window a more or less straight line again, and the pointed rear fender was something that appeared first on the Chevy II, then on the full size Chevy.
@@rpsmith2990 Could there be a motive of debuting a new design language "early" on an economy car, where the economy car has likelihood of success due to its low cost - to acclimate the public to the new language.
@@rpsmith2990 I mean maybe not a debut of design language entirely, maybe just key cues, like the pointed ends on the Chevrolet rear quarters as you pointed out.
Mark provides a deep understanding of US car styling history. I love the Googie look of this car.
Excellent discussion of the styling and good audio and camera work. 👍👍 I was a car-nut in Jr High when this came out and indeed a lot of my car-nut friends thought the Chrysler cars were pretty strange compared to the Ford/Mercury and GM styling. The amazing thing is that by 1974 the Chrysler designers had worked magic and transformed the 62 odd-balls into very sharp looking cars, but still notably different from the other FoMoCo and GM conservative designs. We had a new Plymouth Fury 4 door sedan that was a wonderful car. Our first car with air conditioning. Had over 100,000 when it was sold. The 318 V8 and push-button transmission were dandy. Also the Chrysler Corp interiors were very colorful and well made, especially in the top line of each marque. What I really wanted when I was in high school was a 1964 Sport Fury convertible with a 4-speed manual and the cool bucket seats and center console with tachometer. Engine size didn't matter, the 318 in those years was plenty powerful. The evolution of the 64 "small" Plymouth into the 1965-67 Satellite/GTX and Belvedere was even a cleaner evolution of this body. I was never a fan of the big 1965 & on Fury.
The two things that could have saved this design (even keeping the horizontal "fins") would have been a flat or slightly bowed grill and some more integrated and upscale tail lights. That is what they fixed for the 1964 model, and got rid of the fins. I do think the 1962 model was at least less of a mish-mash than the 1960 & 61 Plymouth.
Thanks so much for this video. The 1962 Chrysler Corp cars are rarely seen at car shows.
My dad had a 440 dart wagon. Bought it brand new in 62. Bright red as he was a volunteer fire chief. Poly 318 was a great motor. Plenty of power and decent mileage. In 67 family took it to expo 67 in Montreal. 85 mph and he blew out two recaps on front. My mother was scared and pissed. He never ran recaps again
Whatever engine that car had, it was NOT a 440. 1966 was the first year for the 440 block V8 engine.
@@MarinCipollina 440 dart is the model designation….look it up
@@lukepokrajac1057 Of course.. righto.. Different thing altogether.. 🙃
my aunt and uncle were mopar nuts, that was part of the thrill of going to visit to experience their weird vehicles, my favorite was a mid size with a square steering wheel, i've tried to investigate what model that might have been but so far not finding it
I think the square steering wheel was an option, maybe on the full sized Chryslers and Plymouths. The Leave it to Beaver car had one, I’m pretty sure. There are several episodes that show the steering wheel and its “squarishness.” I remember those when they were contemporary. I thought they were the strangest things ever.
My Granny drove a rare '62 Plymouth Sport Fury for decades. She had it repainted red (left the top white) and absolutely loved that car. And she had quite the lead foot too. If you told her it was ugly, she would have told you where to go. Granny has been gone for years, but apparently her old Fury is still roaming around out there...
When I turned 16 in 1976 i got my grandfathers fade light green 62 Savoy Had it all through high school. Everybody called it the cheese mobile because of the color. Loved the push button gear shifting and I know it would fit nine-17 year old teenagers to the lake and back multiple times. It never ever broke down and I only ran out of gas once. Great gas mileage. I could not have afforded to put gas in the big v8s of the day even at 60 cents a gallon. Loved the car and handed down to my brother when I went to college. Great memories.
I was never a ‘ mopar ’ guy. No matter. This car is so filled with nostalgia. Thank you…….
I had not previously noticed the fuselage elements on this car, as there are so many others serving as distractions. The Chrysler-specific stepped-up back door beltline treatment has always been hard for me to process, although on this car does get lost somewhat amongst the many other fashion felonies.
By the late '60s and early '70s, fuselage styling had spread to Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, Oldsmobile and Pontiac as well as Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth and Imperial
I remember them when they were every day used cars. A friend of mine had a 62 Savoy in the late 70's. They were also used in the film It's a Mad Mad World and the TV show Car 54.
I think this is one of the most beautiful four door cars ever made.