Split shot, weight ahead of the fly. Drop shot, weight below the fly. I would argue that Drop Shot it's a very, very productive method. It is a premiere method in conventional bass fishing today and has been for a couple of decades. When I bass fish, it is my primary method. Why?? Because it flat out catches fish and good quality too! So if we're speaking of the tight line/ drop shot technique, it should be in every fly fisherman's arsenal, IMHO. Think about it. You can control the depth of your fly. You can control the speed of the drift, and strike detection is immediate. For me, 3 techniques. Dry fly, streamers, and tight line/drop shot. I can cover the entire water column. Sorry, I'm just not into bobber fishing. Really enjoy your content!!! Have learned a lot!!!
First, excellent intro on John. Feel very certain you would find it hard to find someone who loves this sport/hobby and was not as equally touched as you by his writings. Second, this subject of split shot vs weighted flies could not have come at a better time for me personally. I have been weighing (no pun there, lol) this thought quite a bit lately. My biggest struggle using split is keeping it from sliding around on the tippet/leader. If i could get that problem solved I know I would use split more often. Your comments on losing the ability to sense a strike using split certainly makes a lot of sense as well, so thank you for mentioning this issue. It reminds me of something I learned a long time ago that holds true for almost everything in life, to gain something, you must give something up. The key to this truth is, do you gain more, or better yet, learn to adapt better to what you gain, than what you gave up. Thanks for the video, as always, well presented!
Thanks very much. Here are a couple more resources. Both address split shot sliding. These should help you out. troutbitten.com/2016/08/22/stop-the-split-shot-slide/ troutbitten.com/2022/07/13/dont-hate-split-shot-have-a-system-with-video/ Cheers
You are absolutely right and I agree with everything you said. I personally practice all methods in fly fishing. Not for the sake of catching a lot of fish, nor with the goal of catching the biggest trout in the world. The reason is simple, I want to be versatile and have an adequate solution to various challenges on the river. You should not run away from the split shot because it is not an ideal solution in all conditions. Simply, sometimes it works well, sometimes not at all. All the best
Thanks Dom. John Geirach's books always took me to a happy place, pure contentment, i will miss the anticipation of a new book, i'm certain you have a book inside waiting to be written. I do use the split shot system with unweighted nymphs but its rarely used this side of the pond! Pete
I did,nt know that John had passed till I looked on here , I,ve always enjoyed reading his work , I think a fitting tribute would be to re-read his books again , plus get out and fish and enjoy it like he obviously did, RIP John
I look at this from a practical point of view. I used to live in the Midwest, and fished the driftless quite a bit. There I used weighted flies, for the most. I would use a small split shot only when the situation called for it. Now I live in Wyoming, and my home water is the North Platte. At times the weight needed to get the flies to the fish, could be as much as 2 or 3 AB split shot. Good luck tying small flies for a western tailwater with that much weight. The tailwaters force you to use split shot, or not get down to the fish while wading. If you are fishing out of boat when your drift is much longer, your weight is more speed control. I have adapted to fish both styles out of necessity. I think you are a better angler if you learn both styles, and when to use them.
Very interesting. I mostly fish small streams and rivers and do a lot of indicator nymphing. 80% of the time I have a tungsten beadhead nymph on top off a tag and an unweighted nymph trailing 10-14". Depending on the time of year, the unweighted nymph might be hare's ear, pheasant tail etc. or a soft hackle type nymph. (In effect then, the tungsten beadhead acts like splitshot.) I find the trailing nymph is effective because it does move around more freely. During high, moving water events (e.g., spring), it whips around the rock crevices which often entices fish to strike out from under the rocks. If the trailer is longer than 10-14" or so, I'll start to miss strikes, particularly in slower water when the strikes/spits are lightning fast. Then there are plenty of days when the fish are never interested in the unweighted nymph and only (like 100%) take the tungsten bead. Times like these I wonder if a splitshot+unweighted nymph would be effective at all.
If you place the split shot directly in front of the eye of the hook its ALMOST like a tungsten bead on the fly ,WINK , or have i got it wrong , EYES ROLL , all the best , David.
Just doesn't work very well, though. Works best with streamers and not nymphs. And I still don't like it much with streamers. For nymphs, I've tried it a LOT. But trout don't buy it very much. It some ways, it seems like it should present a similar look to a beadhead. Then again, if you look at it objectively, at what the fish sees, and not what we choose to ignore -- split shot snugged up to the eye of a Pheasant Tail nymph looks pretty bad and not very natural. Then again, how natural does a beadhead look? Not sure and that depends on the bead and the rest of the fly. But I can tell you for certain that beadheads catch a lot more fish than just sliding split shot against the eye of an unbeaded fly. That's my experience. You also lose the POINT of fishing split shot instead of weighted flies, as I argue in this article/video. Cheers.
Your observations regarding which nymphs seem more effective unweighted (using shot) are really interesting- e.g., eggs. Makes me wonder where else this is true and which things I should test.
John Gierach basically saved fly fishing for me after a really bad breakup among other things turned my life upside down. I couldn’t find the peace of mind in the sport that I once did until I started listening to his books to occupy my mind. I owe him for that.
Hi. I've been a fan of yours for a long time and I always enjoy your stuff for sure. I've been fly-fishing for over 40 years and for many many years I fished well over a hundred days a year in a row and that was just me fishing for fun. Yes I've thought a lot of people but I never did that while being a guide. Anyway I live in Denver and so a lot of the time we're fishing in way over fished tailwaters with microscopic bugs as you can imagine for the longest time I've always thought that if you take it say an 18 to a 22. You can't put beads in front of those I mean. Here's the deal I know that you're on anything which I really don't I'm not I wouldn't call myself a year old named for. I honestly feel that I'm so good now because I've done it for so long and. That I'll generally challenge any your own infer that I'll beat him in my traditional methods in my traditional methods. And yes just like you I do a lot of drop-shotting and I've always done a lot of direct connected fishing. And I also feel that almost most of the time unless I'm fishing in plunge pools one after the other after the other that I can beat the gyro guys even with indicators in most of our waters. Almost all the time. I think when the smaller bugs are tied to with a huge beat on them or even a appropriate bead for their size they don't float very naturally at all in the water they float like they look like they're tied to a logging chain. I'm certain that that puts off our tail water fish that are so educated here in the Front Range. And then up and a lot of times with Paragons I don't really know that the fish are really eating them as food. As we know efficient hands and fingers are its mouth and so I'm quite sure that if you use any of the bright colors on a hook. Did any of the paragons are made of. And float that in the water they might pick it up just to see what it is. I'm certain that's what most of the Euro nymphs are doing anyway unless they do have at least some sort of attractive something going on that would be suggestive in nature of being a food source. I know I'm going to get a lot of haters for saying what I just said but I feel like I could prove it just about anytime. And I'm not trying to be boastful either I've been very fortunate to fish as much as I have in my whole life and I've traveled an awful lot and fished as well. And in fact one of the things I don't like about fishing is always how different fractions of the sport get kind of snooty and think that they're the only ones period right? I mean when I started all of the dry fly fishermen would just sit around on the bank and wait till the hatch came up. Did heaven forbid if you were an emperor they thought you were sending and should go to hell meanwhile I'd catch my anywhere from 20 to 50 fish in one day and and call it a good day. And yes nothing is more fun than watching fish rise to the surface patterns. But that's really a very slim thyme where you produce very well. And then generally you never get the bigger fish in any of the water cuz they're not going to come up to a ton of dries unless all the circumstances are right and they don't feel threatened. And how many times are they going to do that in the middle of a weather pattern for the day that makes them feel unsafe period and lastly we all know that a fish will never travel farther than what the food's value is. In other words they won't spend more calories to eat something that has less calories than it takes to get to it that's another huge reason why the bigger fish don't rise much to drive. And everybody that's fished for very long should also know that anything over a 20-inch fish has to start eating meat or they'll they'll starve to death. Anyway. I guess in some ways I'm kind of glad that there's so many quote you're on them first using the standard boring flies that they all carry around. Because I think the educated fish get put off a lot of time and they haven't seen the old patterns that used to always work so well and so I'm happy if everybody wants to Euro nymph. And I got to laugh when they see me fishing and they think that they have something over me that's absolutely ridiculous is Rodney once said years ago after the cops almost beat him to death in la. Can't we just all get along
Nice. Everything old is new again. My buddy, Austin, said recently that most trout these days probably haven't seen a classic Hare's Ear. I think he's right. And I can't count how many times that simple pattern has changed the day for me in the last few years. Kinda fun to see how the trout and the anglers go through phases and try to stay on top of it all. Cheers.
@@Troutbitten yes I agree then if you go even back further in time and use all the old wet heckle patterns, the flips all the old classics, especially the suggestive patterns. How can you go wrong. When I first learned how to tie flies of course I had to have three different sizes with six or eight of three different colors for one bug and I still carry around a shit ton of flies, but I bet I used to carry a couple thousand flies in my bag every time I went anywhere and I always had extra flies for when I knew there would be specific catches and of course had all the phases and on and on and eventually one day I thought and realized. That if I only took my best 10, go to patterns and none of them are anything super fancy or you know people probably would look over them all day long these days I could go anywhere in North America and probably, barely struggle at all 95% of the time. I appreciate you and thank you for what you do, man. If you ever get to Colorado, give me a buzz before you come.
This is sooo true that it's not the fly. e.i. I just started using unweighted Tenkara Fly's, Kujaku Kebari and the Shipuru Kebari in particular in TLD with my Moonshine Epiphany 10'5" 3wt. on a 30' leader. I could care less about Tenkara fishing, but the flys are a real killer in TLD at least that is my recent experience in the Missouri Ozark's. I wish I could post a video to prove it. NOTE: I wasn't at the time using any weight at all, but freely drifting in shallow 2', soft current just outside swifter current
thanks so much for this. I just spent a whole day off from work experimenting with this very thing. The thing that kept coming to my mind for the hours I had a split shot on in these woody eastern woods was, "why didn't I bring my spinning rod for this?". I gave myself some answers, some of them may be good even, while I'd like to ask you that question. Whenever you put a split shot and/or an indicator on does it really feel like fly fishing and worth the snags and the price of leaders?
I'd say your thought is very common among anglers. The BEST way to answer your question is to go try it. Take the same fly and/or weight and try to present it on a spinning rod. You will find that your average nymph is not well presented on a spinning rod because it needs extra weight to get it out there. Here's the key to understand -- spin casting is about the weight taking the line to the target. Fly casting is more about the line PUSHING the fly to the target. Now, as soon as you add any weight, then of course that weight is helping the fly carry line behind it as well. But a fly fishing approach to weighted flies or shot allows you to fish MUCH lighter setups because the line and/or leader is PUSHING the fly to the target as well as being pulled by the weight. Kind of a hybrid system, then, right? Here's an article that applies: troutbitten.com/2018/09/30/fly-fishing-the-mono-rig-q-a-lines-rigging-and-the-skeptics/ That's about tight lining. But it very much applies whenever you're fishing ANY weight with flies. One more resource for you. This one is a podcast. troutbitten.com/2023/06/11/podcast-thats-not-fly-fishing-what-it-is-what-it-isnt-who-cares/ The fly rod is simply the best tool for presenting most of what a trout eats -- small stuff. Notice, I didn't say the fly rod is better. I don't care AT ALL about the gear. I love spin fishing too. But for presenting small things on a dead drift (that's important) you can't beat the fly rod approach because it pushes small things to the target. Cheeers.
It's terribly hard to learn from fishing. I've had 100 fish days and few fish days back to back on same water, same looking weather, same flies and setup. That's a digression. Around 2000 I seriously began trout fishing moving water and used mostly tungsten bead head flies without other weight like the guys I fished with. Then for a couple years I used drop shot because it seemed logical and seemed to work great, except I became put off by too many tangles around acrobatic fish. Then I used split shot above little flies when I moved near a tailwater, and for weight now use putty over a micro swivel - the swivel for the purchase it gives the putty. I get more tangles casting now than I did with just bead heads or just drop shot, but not too many. Regarding hooking efficiency I'm going theoretical. Whether tight lining or floating the leader/line, my theory is, with separate weight, fish start the hook set by mouthing the fly while the weight (plus leader/line) tends to drag. Small, ultra sharp modern hooks must help. I tighten to finish the job. I sure wish competition fly fishing rule setters would make dramatic rule changes every couple years, sometime allowing separate weight, for instance. I suspect the intensity of competition fishing would make relative setup efficiency more clear.
I love your first sentence. So true. It takes a long time and a willingness to fail over and over before we can develop much of any theory. Regarding the competition stuff. I don't put much weight in those results. Fly fishing competitions are really not set up to reveal the best tactics and the best anglers. Lots to that one, but to sum it up, I've written this . . . troutbitten.com/2022/08/30/who-knows-better-than-you/ Summary point: your goals, your waters, your preferences, your experiences are far more important than anyone else. Cheers.
@@Troutbitten I love your summary point. My best fishing buddy and I met while both of us were new to tenkara. We had about the same setup and luck. Then he moved 80 miles up river away from the tailwater I now fish most. He went to ever longer tenkara/keiryu rods - now 20', casts two hand, and uses floating indicators. I got tired of losing big fish on the tailwater when they ran to the end of my 12'-15' line, and went back to a reel on a regular rod, and PREFER to skip the floating indicator. When we fish together now he almost always outfishes me - I guess because he gets such wonderful drifts, because our choices of flies and where to throw them are about the same. I think his setup is usually superior, but my PREFERENCE and some other factors are different, so I fish my way and he, his, and we both catch enough to enjoy ourselves.
Honestly, I would start at the beginning and work your way through. Gierach might change the way you see the river. The three books I have pictured near the beginning are probably my favorite, but I dearly love them all.
I'm with you there. But I have friends who do that, having rows and rows of the same fly with different bead sizes. Works for them. Seems unnecessary to me. Cheers.
Do not use split shot….or beads….do use tungsten impregnated leaders (poly leaders) and also heavier hooks, sometimes, with a copper wire underbody to add weight! My weighted flys have a different colour head! Each to his own….whatever works for you!!
So, respectfully, that's a casting issue. It's not the fault of the split shot (mostly). Here's a Troutbitten article about all of that. troutbitten.com/2023/11/30/qa-split-shot-tangling-issues/ Note, it is NOT about slowing the cast down -- quite the opposite. Full turnover and tighter loops are what prevents tangling. I wrote that article because I hear what you're saying ALL the time. But split shot doesn't tangle is you have a good approach. My last point, though. Three flies certainly tangles more than two. 🙂
I don't think that happens much. But I don't use shiny shot. It's black or dull grey for me. The kind of fish I'm after are a little too picky to make that mistake. It's hard enough to fool them with a well tied fly. They're not eating the shot.
Lovely sentiment regarding John Gierach. And the lesson on weight is very helpful. You're on your way to your own renowned legacy, Dom.
Thank you, Mike. That's very nice.
holy smokes i didn't realize he passed. Thanks for the great tribute you gave him. Loved his writing!!
@@Twinhemlocks Cheers. Yeah, Gierach was the best.
Split shot, weight ahead of the fly. Drop shot, weight below the fly. I would argue that Drop Shot it's a very, very productive method. It is a premiere method in conventional bass fishing today and has been for a couple of decades. When I bass fish, it is my primary method. Why?? Because it flat out catches fish and good quality too! So if we're speaking of the tight line/ drop shot technique, it should be in every fly fisherman's arsenal, IMHO. Think about it. You can control the depth of your fly. You can control the speed of the drift, and strike detection is immediate. For me, 3 techniques. Dry fly, streamers, and tight line/drop shot. I can cover the entire water column. Sorry, I'm just not into bobber fishing. Really enjoy your content!!! Have learned a lot!!!
Right on. Everything works sometimes.
Just found out here!
Loved John’s writing!! He will not be forgotten!! Going to reread his books again!! RIP!!
Tough loss.
Great eulogy. You’re making a meaningful impact and legacy of your own with new media. Thank you.
Thank you. That's very kind.
First, excellent intro on John. Feel very certain you would find it hard to find someone who loves this sport/hobby and was not as equally touched as you by his writings. Second, this subject of split shot vs weighted flies could not have come at a better time for me personally. I have been weighing (no pun there, lol) this thought quite a bit lately. My biggest struggle using split is keeping it from sliding around on the tippet/leader. If i could get that problem solved I know I would use split more often. Your comments on losing the ability to sense a strike using split certainly makes a lot of sense as well, so thank you for mentioning this issue. It reminds me of something I learned a long time ago that holds true for almost everything in life, to gain something, you must give something up. The key to this truth is, do you gain more, or better yet, learn to adapt better to what you gain, than what you gave up. Thanks for the video, as always, well presented!
Thanks very much. Here are a couple more resources. Both address split shot sliding. These should help you out.
troutbitten.com/2016/08/22/stop-the-split-shot-slide/
troutbitten.com/2022/07/13/dont-hate-split-shot-have-a-system-with-video/
Cheers
You are absolutely right and I agree with everything you said. I personally practice all methods in fly fishing. Not for the sake of catching a lot of fish, nor with the goal of catching the biggest trout in the world. The reason is simple, I want to be versatile and have an adequate solution to various challenges on the river. You should not run away from the split shot because it is not an ideal solution in all conditions. Simply, sometimes it works well, sometimes not at all. All the best
Right on.
Thanks Dom.
John Geirach's books always took me to a happy place, pure contentment, i will miss the anticipation of a new book, i'm certain you have a book inside waiting to be written.
I do use the split shot system with unweighted nymphs but its rarely used this side of the pond!
Pete
Cheers
I did,nt know that John had passed till I looked on here , I,ve always enjoyed reading his work , I think a fitting tribute would be to re-read his books again , plus get out and fish and enjoy it like he obviously did, RIP John
Cheers.
Great information as always Dom! Thank you for doing this for us!
I enjoy it. Thanks for your support. Cheers.
I look at this from a practical point of view. I used to live in the Midwest, and fished the driftless quite a bit. There I used weighted flies, for the most. I would use a small split shot only when the situation called for it.
Now I live in Wyoming, and my home water is the North Platte. At times the weight needed to get the flies to the fish, could be as much as 2 or 3 AB split shot. Good luck tying small flies for a western tailwater with that much weight. The tailwaters force you to use split shot, or not get down to the fish while wading. If you are fishing out of boat when your drift is much longer, your weight is more speed control.
I have adapted to fish both styles out of necessity. I think you are a better angler if you learn both styles, and when to use them.
Totally agree with all of that. I try to be ready for all of it.
Very interesting. I mostly fish small streams and rivers and do a lot of indicator nymphing. 80% of the time I have a tungsten beadhead nymph on top off a tag and an unweighted nymph trailing 10-14". Depending on the time of year, the unweighted nymph might be hare's ear, pheasant tail etc. or a soft hackle type nymph. (In effect then, the tungsten beadhead acts like splitshot.) I find the trailing nymph is effective because it does move around more freely. During high, moving water events (e.g., spring), it whips around the rock crevices which often entices fish to strike out from under the rocks. If the trailer is longer than 10-14" or so, I'll start to miss strikes, particularly in slower water when the strikes/spits are lightning fast. Then there are plenty of days when the fish are never interested in the unweighted nymph and only (like 100%) take the tungsten bead. Times like these I wonder if a splitshot+unweighted nymph would be effective at all.
@@soundbwoikilla764 Right on. Only one way to find out
If you place the split shot directly in front of the eye of the hook its ALMOST like a tungsten bead on the fly ,WINK , or have i got it wrong , EYES ROLL , all the best , David.
Just doesn't work very well, though. Works best with streamers and not nymphs. And I still don't like it much with streamers. For nymphs, I've tried it a LOT. But trout don't buy it very much. It some ways, it seems like it should present a similar look to a beadhead. Then again, if you look at it objectively, at what the fish sees, and not what we choose to ignore -- split shot snugged up to the eye of a Pheasant Tail nymph looks pretty bad and not very natural. Then again, how natural does a beadhead look? Not sure and that depends on the bead and the rest of the fly. But I can tell you for certain that beadheads catch a lot more fish than just sliding split shot against the eye of an unbeaded fly. That's my experience.
You also lose the POINT of fishing split shot instead of weighted flies, as I argue in this article/video.
Cheers.
Your observations regarding which nymphs seem more effective unweighted (using shot) are really interesting- e.g., eggs. Makes me wonder where else this is true and which things I should test.
Right on. Always good to have a theory.
John Gierach inspired me as well. No one did it better. I appreciate this series as well. Would you ever use split shot with wet flies?
@@scottlowe3355 Right on.
Sure. I use we're quite a bit with shot, but usually I'm dead drifting them and not swinging.
John Gierach basically saved fly fishing for me after a really bad breakup among other things turned my life upside down. I couldn’t find the peace of mind in the sport that I once did until I started listening to his books to occupy my mind. I owe him for that.
Nice. I understand that.
Hi. I've been a fan of yours for a long time and I always enjoy your stuff for sure. I've been fly-fishing for over 40 years and for many many years I fished well over a hundred days a year in a row and that was just me fishing for fun. Yes I've thought a lot of people but I never did that while being a guide. Anyway I live in Denver and so a lot of the time we're fishing in way over fished tailwaters with microscopic bugs as you can imagine for the longest time I've always thought that if you take it say an 18 to a 22. You can't put beads in front of those I mean. Here's the deal I know that you're on anything which I really don't I'm not I wouldn't call myself a year old named for. I honestly feel that I'm so good now because I've done it for so long and. That I'll generally challenge any your own infer that I'll beat him in my traditional methods in my traditional methods. And yes just like you I do a lot of drop-shotting and I've always done a lot of direct connected fishing. And I also feel that almost most of the time unless I'm fishing in plunge pools one after the other after the other that I can beat the gyro guys even with indicators in most of our waters. Almost all the time. I think when the smaller bugs are tied to with a huge beat on them or even a appropriate bead for their size they don't float very naturally at all in the water they float like they look like they're tied to a logging chain. I'm certain that that puts off our tail water fish that are so educated here in the Front Range. And then up and a lot of times with Paragons I don't really know that the fish are really eating them as food. As we know efficient hands and fingers are its mouth and so I'm quite sure that if you use any of the bright colors on a hook. Did any of the paragons are made of. And float that in the water they might pick it up just to see what it is. I'm certain that's what most of the Euro nymphs are doing anyway unless they do have at least some sort of attractive something going on that would be suggestive in nature of being a food source. I know I'm going to get a lot of haters for saying what I just said but I feel like I could prove it just about anytime. And I'm not trying to be boastful either I've been very fortunate to fish as much as I have in my whole life and I've traveled an awful lot and fished as well. And in fact one of the things I don't like about fishing is always how different fractions of the sport get kind of snooty and think that they're the only ones period right? I mean when I started all of the dry fly fishermen would just sit around on the bank and wait till the hatch came up. Did heaven forbid if you were an emperor they thought you were sending and should go to hell meanwhile I'd catch my anywhere from 20 to 50 fish in one day and and call it a good day. And yes nothing is more fun than watching fish rise to the surface patterns. But that's really a very slim thyme where you produce very well. And then generally you never get the bigger fish in any of the water cuz they're not going to come up to a ton of dries unless all the circumstances are right and they don't feel threatened. And how many times are they going to do that in the middle of a weather pattern for the day that makes them feel unsafe period and lastly we all know that a fish will never travel farther than what the food's value is. In other words they won't spend more calories to eat something that has less calories than it takes to get to it that's another huge reason why the bigger fish don't rise much to drive. And everybody that's fished for very long should also know that anything over a 20-inch fish has to start eating meat or they'll they'll starve to death. Anyway. I guess in some ways I'm kind of glad that there's so many quote you're on them first using the standard boring flies that they all carry around. Because I think the educated fish get put off a lot of time and they haven't seen the old patterns that used to always work so well and so I'm happy if everybody wants to Euro nymph. And I got to laugh when they see me fishing and they think that they have something over me that's absolutely ridiculous is Rodney once said years ago after the cops almost beat him to death in la. Can't we just all get along
Nice. Everything old is new again. My buddy, Austin, said recently that most trout these days probably haven't seen a classic Hare's Ear. I think he's right. And I can't count how many times that simple pattern has changed the day for me in the last few years. Kinda fun to see how the trout and the anglers go through phases and try to stay on top of it all.
Cheers.
@@Troutbitten yes I agree then if you go even back further in time and use all the old wet heckle patterns, the flips all the old classics, especially the suggestive patterns. How can you go wrong. When I first learned how to tie flies of course I had to have three different sizes with six or eight of three different colors for one bug and I still carry around a shit ton of flies, but I bet I used to carry a couple thousand flies in my bag every time I went anywhere and I always had extra flies for when I knew there would be specific catches and of course had all the phases and on and on and eventually one day I thought and realized. That if I only took my best 10, go to patterns and none of them are anything super fancy or you know people probably would look over them all day long these days I could go anywhere in North America and probably, barely struggle at all 95% of the time. I appreciate you and thank you for what you do, man. If you ever get to Colorado, give me a buzz before you come.
Cheers. I appreciate that.
This is sooo true that it's not the fly. e.i. I just started using unweighted Tenkara Fly's, Kujaku Kebari and the Shipuru Kebari in particular in TLD with my Moonshine Epiphany 10'5" 3wt. on a 30' leader. I could care less about Tenkara fishing, but the flys are a real killer in TLD at least that is my recent experience in the Missouri Ozark's. I wish I could post a video to prove it. NOTE: I wasn't at the time using any weight at all, but freely drifting in shallow 2', soft current just outside swifter current
Nice
thanks so much for this. I just spent a whole day off from work experimenting with this very thing. The thing that kept coming to my mind for the hours I had a split shot on in these woody eastern woods was, "why didn't I bring my spinning rod for this?". I gave myself some answers, some of them may be good even, while I'd like to ask you that question. Whenever you put a split shot and/or an indicator on does it really feel like fly fishing and worth the snags and the price of leaders?
I'd say your thought is very common among anglers. The BEST way to answer your question is to go try it. Take the same fly and/or weight and try to present it on a spinning rod. You will find that your average nymph is not well presented on a spinning rod because it needs extra weight to get it out there. Here's the key to understand -- spin casting is about the weight taking the line to the target. Fly casting is more about the line PUSHING the fly to the target. Now, as soon as you add any weight, then of course that weight is helping the fly carry line behind it as well. But a fly fishing approach to weighted flies or shot allows you to fish MUCH lighter setups because the line and/or leader is PUSHING the fly to the target as well as being pulled by the weight. Kind of a hybrid system, then, right?
Here's an article that applies:
troutbitten.com/2018/09/30/fly-fishing-the-mono-rig-q-a-lines-rigging-and-the-skeptics/
That's about tight lining. But it very much applies whenever you're fishing ANY weight with flies.
One more resource for you. This one is a podcast.
troutbitten.com/2023/06/11/podcast-thats-not-fly-fishing-what-it-is-what-it-isnt-who-cares/
The fly rod is simply the best tool for presenting most of what a trout eats -- small stuff.
Notice, I didn't say the fly rod is better. I don't care AT ALL about the gear. I love spin fishing too. But for presenting small things on a dead drift (that's important) you can't beat the fly rod approach because it pushes small things to the target.
Cheeers.
@@Troutbitten what a greatly appreciated point of view. Cheers.
@@MrAndymcginn Have fun out there
John allowed me to fish on days when I couldn't. He will be deeply missed.
Well said.
It's terribly hard to learn from fishing. I've had 100 fish days and few fish days back to back on same water, same looking weather, same flies and setup. That's a digression.
Around 2000 I seriously began trout fishing moving water and used mostly tungsten bead head flies without other weight like the guys I fished with. Then for a couple years I used drop shot because it seemed logical and seemed to work great, except I became put off by too many tangles around acrobatic fish. Then I used split shot above little flies when I moved near a tailwater, and for weight now use putty over a micro swivel - the swivel for the purchase it gives the putty. I get more tangles casting now than I did with just bead heads or just drop shot, but not too many.
Regarding hooking efficiency I'm going theoretical. Whether tight lining or floating the leader/line, my theory is, with separate weight, fish start the hook set by mouthing the fly while the weight (plus leader/line) tends to drag. Small, ultra sharp modern hooks must help. I tighten to finish the job.
I sure wish competition fly fishing rule setters would make dramatic rule changes every couple years, sometime allowing separate weight, for instance. I suspect the intensity of competition fishing would make relative setup efficiency more clear.
I love your first sentence. So true. It takes a long time and a willingness to fail over and over before we can develop much of any theory.
Regarding the competition stuff. I don't put much weight in those results. Fly fishing competitions are really not set up to reveal the best tactics and the best anglers. Lots to that one, but to sum it up, I've written this . . .
troutbitten.com/2022/08/30/who-knows-better-than-you/
Summary point: your goals, your waters, your preferences, your experiences are far more important than anyone else.
Cheers.
@@Troutbitten I love your summary point. My best fishing buddy and I met while both of us were new to tenkara. We had about the same setup and luck. Then he moved 80 miles up river away from the tailwater I now fish most. He went to ever longer tenkara/keiryu rods - now 20', casts two hand, and uses floating indicators. I got tired of losing big fish on the tailwater when they ran to the end of my 12'-15' line, and went back to a reel on a regular rod, and PREFER to skip the floating indicator. When we fish together now he almost always outfishes me - I guess because he gets such wonderful drifts, because our choices of flies and where to throw them are about the same. I think his setup is usually superior, but my PREFERENCE and some other factors are different, so I fish my way and he, his, and we both catch enough to enjoy ourselves.
Right on. Enjoying it matters most.
I’ve never read Gierach. What book would you recommend? Thanks.
Honestly, I would start at the beginning and work your way through. Gierach might change the way you see the river. The three books I have pictured near the beginning are probably my favorite, but I dearly love them all.
Start with Trout Bum (his first book). They're ALL excellent, and can be read in any order.
Carrying the same pattern in several sizes and multiple weights for each size is ludicrous. Split shot all the way for versatility.
I'm with you there. But I have friends who do that, having rows and rows of the same fly with different bead sizes. Works for them. Seems unnecessary to me. Cheers.
Gratuitous dog shots. 😂
@@dougmarlow4626 damn right. ha
Who doesn't love em ❤@@Troutbitten
Do not use split shot….or beads….do use tungsten impregnated leaders (poly leaders) and also heavier hooks, sometimes, with a copper wire underbody to add weight! My weighted flys have a different colour head! Each to his own….whatever works for you!!
Right on.
95% of the time I'm a weighted nymph fisher. When casting with 3 flies, split shot tangles to easy and its very frustrating.
So, respectfully, that's a casting issue. It's not the fault of the split shot (mostly). Here's a Troutbitten article about all of that.
troutbitten.com/2023/11/30/qa-split-shot-tangling-issues/
Note, it is NOT about slowing the cast down -- quite the opposite. Full turnover and tighter loops are what prevents tangling.
I wrote that article because I hear what you're saying ALL the time. But split shot doesn't tangle is you have a good approach.
My last point, though. Three flies certainly tangles more than two. 🙂
@@Troutbitten Sometimes it is. But I never cast to far in the cooler months. But I will read this for sure..
@@dankochanek8056 Good stuff
@@Troutbitten And the intro about John. Fantastic.
Cheers
I just can't handle the idea of a fish choosing to eat the split shot instead of my fly.
I don't think that happens much. But I don't use shiny shot. It's black or dull grey for me. The kind of fish I'm after are a little too picky to make that mistake. It's hard enough to fool them with a well tied fly. They're not eating the shot.