Scott, you're so correct about sounding like a radial recip! I've been around them for a number of years; Dad worked on P&W R-4360's in the Air Force. They fart fire, snort, and "mark their territory" (leak oil)!
Mitch That's what I do around my BATTERYS on my 3-53 Plus I went and got the Block Heater that bolts with 2 bolts witch you can put on both sides of block. A plate each side. You know that 40 wht. oil needs to loosen up a little. I also learned that keeping the KILL nob pulled out and let her turn over without starting warms up the block.
If the grid heater is out you could use a hair dryer or a hot air gun to blow hot air down the intake to make it start easier. But the looks of it your engine is pretty healthy to start on compression alone in cold weather.
Not a big deal to replace the grid heater, Scott. You'll have it done in an hour. We cycle our 5.9's a couple times if it is in the 20s or so, just makes it easier on them. If you want to, and it has a block heater and know you are going to be needing the truck on a cold morning we have a few timers around here, set em up to heat for a couple of hours before your anticipated start time and that seems to be enough. No need to heat them all night spinning your meter or (pulling on your batteries )Best thing about it is warm air outta the heater right away, LOL.
Even with a repaired grid heater I’d still put in some kind of supplemental heat system. But at least it got started & changing the grid heater is an easy enough fix.
I believe that to be more of a VP44 issue than the non functional grid heaters. Non working grids should possibly cause the engine to crank longer to build a little heat before starting, but once it fires, it should stay running unless the fuel is gelled. Your truck starts right up, but its kind of like there is air in the lines. Blue Chip diesel's VP44 troubleshooting guide almost makes it sound like a bad diaphragm in the pump.
Ran perfectly fine once it ran for a few seconds if the vp was bad it would give continued issues, probably just has a lot of fuel to it and it hates cold starts
I've never had a diesel with a grid heater but with my VW diesel I would just hold it to the floor when it was down a glow plug or just didn't want to start. Always worked and never hurt it.
Sometimes it's best to just hold in the starter until you're sure she cranks. The thing with diesel engines is you have to crank them for a LONG time before they start in the winter. Obviously you don't want to burn out the starter, but there's times I crank for 2-3 minutes straight (6.5 Detroit Diesel) when it gets really cold. One time starting the 980 loader I cranked for a good 3 minutes, gave it a rest, and cranked another probably 2 minutes before it was going. It was below zero
Might be worth turning the truck around and leaving the front end in the sun. Noticed that my Volvo 240 Turbo with K-Jetronic acts similarly when it's parked facing the backyard on a cold day that's sunny. If I have it facing the front (south), starts up fairly quickly and runs decently. At least, that might help until the grid heater is replaced. Maybe it'll take only two tries, instead of 3-4 lol...
Cold start of a Cummins is best done by depressing the throttle pedal half to three quarters while cranking. Then when it lights off hold it at one quarter throttle. I havent run the grid heaters for years and I'm way north of Tennessee. To me those grid heaters are the quickest way to kill an alternator.
"So how many times did it take you to pass the bar Vinny? Three times a charm? .... (Vinny) Not for me, seven times was a charm!" One of my favorite movies.. Yea, that does remind me of the Ice Pilots trying to start those radial engines in the cold.. even the starter.. those Dodge hi torque starters still sound the same as the old ones.
24v will ramp up to 1200 rpm, and if it is really cold it disables three cylinders... has to be flashed for that function though. Common rail will idle up too, or manually done with the cruise control.
I started our Kenworth at work with a m11 Cummins in it after it sat for a week. She firer up but she didn't like it. Took a minute for all cylinders to get going. It wasn't plugged in either and it's been in the 20s low 30s. It was about 20 when I fired it up.
APPS input is ignored during cranking. It has a default fuel and timing map based on temperature. It cranks the timing up considerably, an advantage the mechanical pump does not have.
I'm a couple hundred miles north of you and have the same truck. It's never been cold enough to plug in the block heater to have to start it. Fix the grid heater and it will be a world of difference starting. I would say if it got down to 10 or below that I might plug in the block heater. I have two other vehicles that are gas and don't start as good as the truck. I would also put in a fuel pressure gage to make sure the lift pump was always working. If that lift pump quits shortly afterwards so will the injection pump. Those VP pumps don't like to suck their own fuel they like being feed it.
that really didn't start bad at all. it wouldn't have been much better with the grid. the grid only helps with a quick ignition, not the rough running. a block heater would smooth out the startup in cold weather
Ketchup hell he didn't even rev her to the Mustard, and definitely never got close to the Mayonnaise as for the Ketchup it still in the bottle in the pantry.
Healthy 24v should fire off at 30f no problem. Crank speed sounded a bit slow. Good batteries, proper oil viscosity, and make sure the brushes are good in the starter goes a long way. I can start down to -4f without a block heater. Anything below that requires about an hour on the block heater, maybe more in double digit negatives.
Hopefully you do not have the dreaded 53 block which is prone to cracking. The were cast with extremely thin water jackets and I have seen many junk 53 blockd in scrap piles.
The grid heater does not work. I only did the wait to start to satisfy the internet people that i was following directions. But with it not working it does nothing
i started a Mercedes Diesel with bad glow plugs using a hair dryer by blowing hot air into the intake. My 1997 Volvo V70 Diesel dosent start using glow plugs until the outside temp is below 5 degrees celsius. so during the warmer months it just starts on compression saving the glow plugs for the winter thus making them last pretty much forever.
Fuel heater has nothing to do with the intake grid heater. It is either on or off, depending upon the fuel temp, and is a low wattage heater. The (ECM) computer senses engine temperature and determines how long to energize the grid heater in the intake. The power signal goes to a solenoid on the fender which transfers battery voltage through to the high amp draw heater in the intake. After the engine starts, the grid heaters cycle for a period when you see the voltmeter dip down, and back up. A 5.9 or 6.7 in good shape will start down to -15°F without those heaters, according to CMEP in Columbus Indiana.
It starts like I do at 29 degrees but I would just roll over and stay under the blankets ,I live in Texas below 50 is to cold for me ,say Hello to Kelly, Leroy, and Lenny
I had a ‘98 VP44 24 valve. Loved the really cold starts with that truck. Hope your ECM has the software for high idle below freezing and 3 cyl high idle below 15° or so. Probably doesn’t help warm up much, but stupid cool when it happens.
You did say that’s a 24 valve Cummins right? Those are Brazilian made engines the only drawback is the engine block are prone to crack how to identify it is a number 53 stamped on the driver side of the block near the front of the engine. So if anything happens to it I would replace it with a Cummins 5.9 Litre 12valve engine. Just looking out for you Scott.
applies to the 98-01 with the standard output (SO) cummins turbo diesel The 01-02 high output (HO) cummins turbo diesel have the have the 56 block rather than the 53 (56 blocks are the sturdiest blocks that cummins made for dodge trucks). The most common year of the 53 block is 1999. 2000 and 2001 trucks are rare to see with a 53 block And all the dodge trucks from 1998 with the 12 valve cummins diesel are 53 blocks Just a little info if someone stumbles across this comment
@@BusGreaseMonkey Less than $50 off ebay....or...it might be the contactors/solenoids/relays...... those are also less than $50.. Need to find out which has failed before buying the parts.
Rick, they have a grid heater that gives off heat so when you crank the engine, the heated air goes into the cylinder and helps ignition of the diesel fuel. The grid heater is in the intake manifold The grid heater on this truck doesn't work though, that's why it took a little longer to start
A grid heater is an electrical resistance heating element that is located in the intake manifold. It is activated to heat the intake a air as an aid to cold weather starting and to minimize smoke on cold starts.
No glow plugs in the Cummins, there is a heater in the intake manifold that works like the heater in your hair dryer. It warms up the incoming air to start in cold temps. Simplifies the head a little bit.
No, a grid heater is a heating element that heats the air in the intake side of the engine. On the cummins it is below the intake horn and while air comes into the engine it passes by the zig zag of heated coils increasing the temperature of the in coming air. On my 91 dodge it usually only turns on if the temperature has been below 60 degrees or so. Cummins usually also have a fuel heater that sit above the fuel filter which heats fuel going into the injection pump.
No.....grid heaters are in the intake manifold and heat the air coming into the cylinders. Glow plugs heat the combustion chambers...but take a lot longer to get enough heat into the engine to have it run when cold. Grid heaters can be cycled while the engine is running to keep the cylinders firing. Glow plugs, if used with a running engine, can cause engine damage from pre-ignition.
It looks like you need to take it down the road put that soccer in low gear and stop on it and cleaned all that carbon build-up out of it itll Burnet right out of there
You know you’re a truck man when Youre entertained by the starting of a Diesel engine.
God nothing beats the sound of a 24 valve man damn
Scott, you're so correct about sounding like a radial recip! I've been around them for a number of years; Dad worked on P&W R-4360's in the Air Force. They fart fire, snort, and "mark their territory" (leak oil)!
I used to put a heating pad on my dodge when it was really cold worked pretty good. Just laid it over the intake
Mitch
That's what I do around my BATTERYS on my 3-53
Plus I went and got the Block Heater that bolts with 2 bolts witch you can put on both sides of block. A plate each side.
You know that 40 wht. oil needs to loosen up a little. I also learned that keeping the KILL nob pulled out and let her turn over without starting warms up the block.
29°f is not a cold start, in Finland now -22°f , it is a cold start!
If the grid heater is out you could use a hair dryer or a hot air gun to blow hot air down the intake to make it start easier. But the looks of it your engine is pretty healthy to start on compression alone in cold weather.
Diesels and cold weather, good times!
Not a big deal to replace the grid heater, Scott. You'll have it done in an hour.
We cycle our 5.9's a couple times if it is in the 20s or so, just makes it easier on them. If you want to, and it has a block heater and know you are going to be needing the truck on a cold morning we have a few timers around here, set em up to heat for a couple of hours before your anticipated start time and that seems to be enough. No need to heat them all night spinning your meter or (pulling on your batteries )Best thing about it is warm air outta the heater right away, LOL.
Even with a repaired grid heater I’d still put in some kind of supplemental heat system. But at least it got started & changing the grid heater is an easy enough fix.
I believe that to be more of a VP44 issue than the non functional grid heaters. Non working grids should possibly cause the engine to crank longer to build a little heat before starting, but once it fires, it should stay running unless the fuel is gelled. Your truck starts right up, but its kind of like there is air in the lines. Blue Chip diesel's VP44 troubleshooting guide almost makes it sound like a bad diaphragm in the pump.
Ran perfectly fine once it ran for a few seconds if the vp was bad it would give continued issues, probably just has a lot of fuel to it and it hates cold starts
Yeah it sounds ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE but imagine the strain your poor cold engine is going through internally
Used to own a 2005 Dodge with a Cummins. I never waited for the glow plug, even down to 15F, and she started every time.
Grid heater, no glow plugs.
try it when its -28f they are not happy
grid heater and also different fuel system common rail this feed by vp44
@@rrcoster Thanks for the information. Wish I had my 2005 Cummins in my F450 6.0L RV.
I've never had a diesel with a grid heater but with my VW diesel I would just hold it to the floor when it was down a glow plug or just didn't want to start. Always worked and never hurt it.
Sometimes it's best to just hold in the starter until you're sure she cranks. The thing with diesel engines is you have to crank them for a LONG time before they start in the winter. Obviously you don't want to burn out the starter, but there's times I crank for 2-3 minutes straight (6.5 Detroit Diesel) when it gets really cold. One time starting the 980 loader I cranked for a good 3 minutes, gave it a rest, and cranked another probably 2 minutes before it was going. It was below zero
Might be worth turning the truck around and leaving the front end in the sun. Noticed that my Volvo 240 Turbo with K-Jetronic acts similarly when it's parked facing the backyard on a cold day that's sunny. If I have it facing the front (south), starts up fairly quickly and runs decently. At least, that might help until the grid heater is replaced. Maybe it'll take only two tries, instead of 3-4 lol...
Get that blocker heater plugged in!
Cold start of a Cummins is best done by depressing the throttle pedal half to three quarters while cranking. Then when it lights off hold it at one quarter throttle. I havent run the grid heaters for years and I'm way north of Tennessee. To me those grid heaters are the quickest way to kill an alternator.
Always enjoy your videos but revving it up over 2k right after a cold start in 29f?
I gave it a little.... it’s not like i floored it and held it.
They will crack a main cap
Ouch 🤕
Yeah made me cringe
I finally learned to cycle my grid heater 3 times when it gets really cold...starts almost nor.ally at that point...not bad for a 30 year old trucl
"So how many times did it take you to pass the bar Vinny? Three times a charm? .... (Vinny) Not for me, seven times was a charm!" One of my favorite movies.. Yea, that does remind me of the Ice Pilots trying to start those radial engines in the cold.. even the starter.. those Dodge hi torque starters still sound the same as the old ones.
Yoooo.. Vinny bagadonuts!
I would say I like the old 12 Valves when cold they run low rpm and go up as it warms up
24v will ramp up to 1200 rpm, and if it is really cold it disables three cylinders... has to be flashed for that function though. Common rail will idle up too, or manually done with the cruise control.
still starts better than my '49 fargo when it's cold . . .
I started our Kenworth at work with a m11 Cummins in it after it sat for a week. She firer up but she didn't like it. Took a minute for all cylinders to get going. It wasn't plugged in either and it's been in the 20s low 30s. It was about 20 when I fired it up.
It sounds like a radial aviation engine except the turbo makes it sound a bit like a railway loco!
Sounds awesome.
Owners manual says that you should give these 1/4 throttle on cold starts I believe. My 12v at least says that.
Yup 👍
Looks like 24 v so all electronic
@@rrcoster Yes, is it a 24v. I assume that the throttle input would still give additional fuel, no?
@@madmodifier no not while starting as it uses APPS electronic pedal for fuel
APPS input is ignored during cranking. It has a default fuel and timing map based on temperature. It cranks the timing up considerably, an advantage the mechanical pump does not have.
If it still has the factory block heater, plug it in for n hour. That will help some.
I’ve found that as little as 30 minutes can help significantly.
Good 'ol Dodge Rollin' Coal in the mornin'!
I'm a couple hundred miles north of you and have the same truck. It's never been cold enough to plug in the block heater to have to start it. Fix the grid heater and it will be a world of difference starting. I would say if it got down to 10 or below that I might plug in the block heater. I have two other vehicles that are gas and don't start as good as the truck. I would also put in a fuel pressure gage to make sure the lift pump was always working. If that lift pump quits shortly afterwards so will the injection pump. Those VP pumps don't like to suck their own fuel they like being feed it.
that really didn't start bad at all. it wouldn't have been much better with the grid. the grid only helps with a quick ignition, not the rough running. a block heater would smooth out the startup in cold weather
My 1987 Mercedes diesel starts right up at 9f on the first flick of the key at 242k miles.
Travis H My 1982 GMC C1500 6.2L diesel will start up at -11f without being plugged in.
Give the Dog right to the ketchup!
That's a new one on me! D'oh!
Ketchup hell he didn't even rev her to the Mustard, and definitely never got close to the Mayonnaise as for the Ketchup it still in the bottle in the pantry.
send it! starts like ole slave lake lol
Rather be Cummin than Strokin lmao. Cummins is a great engine, especially the 12v with a p-pump and injector upgrade. She sounds pretty good.
I have a 94 12-valve Cummings she starts all the time in the winter even when I don't plug it in
now thats weird , i was thinking it sounded like a pratt and whitney radial on start up , and you go and say it ....damn...lol
Fire in the hole!! Seriously though, sounded pretty good once it got going.
My friend had a old abused junky 1980 Mercedes 240Diesel and that thing started with just a couple of cranks no matter how cold it was.
Healthy 24v should fire off at 30f no problem. Crank speed sounded a bit slow. Good batteries, proper oil viscosity, and make sure the brushes are good in the starter goes a long way. I can start down to -4f without a block heater. Anything below that requires about an hour on the block heater, maybe more in double digit negatives.
Rollin the coal!
Hopefully you do not have the dreaded 53 block which is prone to cracking. The were cast with extremely thin water jackets and I have seen many junk 53 blockd in scrap piles.
If you wait through the WAIT TO START twice helps . Turn key on when wait to start light goes off turn key off then back on works better that way
The grid heater does not work. I only did the wait to start to satisfy the internet people that i was following directions. But with it not working it does nothing
@@BusGreaseMonkey
ok I see what you mean now.
Still it wasn't too bad a cold start.
I think that old Dodge needs a block heater
i started a Mercedes Diesel with bad glow plugs using a hair dryer by blowing hot air into the intake. My 1997 Volvo V70 Diesel dosent start using glow plugs until the outside temp is below 5 degrees celsius. so during the warmer months it just starts on compression saving the glow plugs for the winter thus making them last pretty much forever.
@@ToomasTelling Dodge Cummins 24V grid heaters turn on if engine temp is below 65F, due to smog laws.......
Fuel heater has nothing to do with the intake grid heater. It is either on or off, depending upon the fuel temp, and is a low wattage heater. The (ECM) computer senses engine temperature and determines how long to energize the grid heater in the intake. The power signal goes to a solenoid on the fender which transfers battery voltage through to the high amp draw heater in the intake. After the engine starts, the grid heaters cycle for a period when you see the voltmeter dip down, and back up. A 5.9 or 6.7 in good shape will start down to -15°F without those heaters, according to CMEP in Columbus Indiana.
I beleive that truck has a fuel heater if still hooked up. So the wait to start might do something even without the grid heater
smooth too :)
The differance between it and a Detroit Diesel, is that 30 seconds after finally starting, it stops smoking.
Are you giving it any throttle? I don’t know about the vp44 but the p7100 likes a little especially in the cold.
It starts like I do at 29 degrees but I would just roll over and stay under the blankets ,I live in Texas below 50 is to cold for me ,say Hello to Kelly, Leroy, and Lenny
And Larry
Does it not have a block heater? Should be a plug hanging out u Der the hood somewhere
P47 named BGM ready to Taxi and take off..LOL !
Come to northern part of norway and try to start in -15°c
fire it up on a cold Canadian night after a 11pm hockey game and its -35c lol
That takes a lot of cranking
My dad has a 2000 dodge ram 3500 that was bought new by someone from Norway. Believe it or not
That s one cranky Dodge.
Put some Archoil in that fuel
doesn't sound to much different than my 5.2 gasser when it's below freezing.
Nothing like giving old diesel a cold rev up lol
Are you sure all the glow plugs are working?? Sounds like several are out for sure!! Get Tyler on it!!
Cummins doesn't run glow plugs. It has a grid heater under the intake horn
It started. Woo hoo.
I had a ‘98 VP44 24 valve. Loved the really cold starts with that truck. Hope your ECM has the software for high idle below freezing and 3 cyl high idle below 15° or so. Probably doesn’t help warm up much, but stupid cool when it happens.
Your oil pressure gauge reads pressure before the motor turns over.
It sees the future ;)
Need to fix that exhaust leak.
You did say that’s a 24 valve Cummins right? Those are Brazilian made engines the only drawback is the engine block are prone to crack how to identify it is a number 53 stamped on the driver side of the block near the front of the engine. So if anything happens to it I would replace it with a Cummins 5.9 Litre 12valve engine. Just looking out for you Scott.
That truck doesn't have a 53 block in it. First thing i check when i got it.
applies to the 98-01 with the standard output (SO) cummins turbo diesel
The 01-02 high output (HO) cummins turbo diesel have the have the 56 block rather than the 53 (56 blocks are the sturdiest blocks that cummins made for dodge trucks).
The most common year of the 53 block is 1999. 2000 and 2001 trucks are rare to see with a 53 block
And all the dodge trucks from 1998 with the 12 valve cummins diesel are 53 blocks
Just a little info if someone stumbles across this comment
Or plug in block heater for 30 min so it will be better
😆 just like my 7.3L Powerstroke. What year is this Dodge btw?
I bet the Lexus doesn't have any cold start issues at all. Because Toyota tech.
greta thumberg gonna be on your case scott lmao
Ive seen alot worse black smoke.. ( edit) watch dieseldave twin turbo cummins rolling coal aprilfools prank... greta should have been there..😆
Why is it so loud? Muffler bad?
I’m sure the muffler is fine.... where ever it may be.
Have Tyler fix that for ya
Fix it for him, it’s his truck, he just has not tried starting it in cold weather yet.
I think the coldest weather I've owned it in was like 50 degrees. It's on the list tho
@@BusGreaseMonkey Less than $50 off ebay....or...it might be the contactors/solenoids/relays...... those are also less than $50.. Need to find out which has failed before buying the parts.
this is was has a Cummins 5.9L
Give it a blanket.
Friend of mine wouldn't allow anyone with an ice cream cone around his Cummins diesel....said it wouldn't start
Find some #1 diesel
Are all the glow plugs working correctly? Or does it even have them?
Those Cummins engines don’t have glow plugs, they have a heating element in the air intake tract before the air gets to the intake valves.
Rick,
they have a grid heater that gives off heat so when you crank the engine, the heated air goes into the cylinder and helps ignition of the diesel fuel.
The grid heater is in the intake manifold
The grid heater on this truck doesn't work though, that's why it took a little longer to start
Ok..thanks guy ..I have an older F350
What is a grid heater? same thing as a block heater?
It heats up the air in the air intake to help start faster
@@allenjanoch thankyou.
What is a “grid heater”? Is that the same as glow plugs?
A grid heater is an electrical resistance heating element that is located in the intake manifold. It is activated to heat the intake a air as an aid to cold weather starting and to minimize smoke on cold starts.
No glow plugs in the Cummins, there is a heater in the intake manifold that works like the heater in your hair dryer. It warms up the incoming air to start in cold temps. Simplifies the head a little bit.
No, a grid heater is a heating element that heats the air in the intake side of the engine. On the cummins it is below the intake horn and while air comes into the engine it passes by the zig zag of heated coils increasing the temperature of the in coming air. On my 91 dodge it usually only turns on if the temperature has been below 60 degrees or so. Cummins usually also have a fuel heater that sit above the fuel filter which heats fuel going into the injection pump.
No.....grid heaters are in the intake manifold and heat the air coming into the cylinders. Glow plugs heat the combustion chambers...but take a lot longer to get enough heat into the engine to have it run when cold. Grid heaters can be cycled while the engine is running to keep the cylinders firing. Glow plugs, if used with a running engine, can cause engine damage from pre-ignition.
It looks like you need to take it down the road put that soccer in low gear and stop on it and cleaned all that carbon build-up out of it itll Burnet right out of there
Why bother fixing the heater? Just make a small fire under the engine about a half hour before you want to go.
the turbo doesn't sound very god tho.....
I don’t like the cold either😝
Sounds like mine when the grid heater in air Intake burned out.
ketchup
Rack needs cleaning
Typical Dodge start up regardless of fuel source.
Yawn
Besty does not like the cold