Real-life fractal zoom
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- Making a real-life fractal zoom.
Follow-up video in which I also pull focus!: • Real-life fractal tree...
Feliks Konczakowski's work: / konczakowski
My project with Paul-Olivier Dehaye: www.segerman.or... (Bart de Smit turned our logarithmic image into the looping video.)
The 3d print is available to buy from shpws.me/Ttp5
The file is available to download from www.printables...
![[FULL EP.16] เซียนพาลุย "เผือก-ฟรอยด์" กรี๊ดลั่น จนปูหนี | เฮ็ดอย่างเซียนหรั่ง | One Playground](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FsqUvwS3b-Y/mqdefault.jpg)
Here is a property I think real life fractals would have: at very small scales, the valleys of the fractal approximate the wavelength of light, so on a macroscale some fractals could display structural coloration (like in butterfly wings)
You could demonstrate this using longer wavelength radiation comparable with the size of the smallest detail; this would have to be microwaves or millimetre waves. At the moment I don't think there's any 3D printing technology which has the half-a-micron resolution you would need to get the effect with visible light.
This is such a fascinating idea, coming up with several fractal surfaces and computing the interference and scattering effects involved. Each fractal would likely get its own color and interference patterns. Lovely.
@@zh84 I am sure you can simulate it with ray tracing. I am looking into how to simulate such effects :)
@@incription if you or anyone else figures this out I’d be interested in the results.
there are shorter wave lengths than light though.
As a vfx artist, I love it when people outside the industry run into the issues we deal with on the daily. The perspective discussion in the beginning is something I have very often with directors and cinematographers, even the most seasoned professionals have a hard time understanding why you can't just slap two pieces of footage together without taking all of that into account. To get this perfect you probably need to take lens distortion into account as well, as the edges of the frame can be slightly stretched compared to the center of the image, so when lining up the whole of the image with a different perspective distance, you're can be a fair percentage off from distortion alone because of a largely imperceptible bend. A rectilinear lens can reduce this effect for all intents and purposes, if it's a good one. The final piece to this puzzle would be to motorize the focus so you don't get that artifact as well, and this could also be shot stop-motion style for a perfectly stable and crisp look.
And for the record, I don't think this looks like CG necessarily, you probably could recreate this look in CG, it's just that you wouldn't get this without having this particular photographic reference as a starting point, so it's plausible as CG, but not clearly CG, even the smallest imperfection takes work which is the inverse of what happens in real life photography, so it's actually pretty hard to create a photo that definitely looks CG, it has to be extremely exact, it's an artform in itself.
The issue of lens distortion is something I’ve been leaving in its can (with all the other worms) and trying to not think about!
You’re right that it doesn’t look that much like CG, which is probably for the best. I’ve run into the issue more with stills, like my current avatar photo (illustrating stereographic projection). With video, there are so many more things to notice.
Is the lens distortion causing the visible perturbations in the Romanesco broccoli?
Change in Depth of field and focus seems to be a problem also
@@Hexnilium I doubt it - Feliks uses only one or two photos for his zooms, and no single photograph would look distorted like that.
Couldn't you bypass all of this by placing the camera far and using a zoom? The perspective difference would be tiny.
It seems like the loss of focus is being used to help hide the loop, which is clever, though it would be really cool to see one that stays in focus too! Phenomenal video
I’m pretty sure that the blur is only there to prove that it’s not computer generated, as he mentioned he left mistakes in for that reason. I also wish that it didn’t go out of focus because then I’m pretty sure it would be perfect
@@christophermoore6110I was half joking about the mistakes. I’m still far enough from perfection on these loops that there is plenty of room for improvement.
@@henryseg really? The only mistake I personally noticed was the blur lol
The blur for me was what kept telling me it was a loop :/
I'd rather see the imperfections as you get closer in high fidelity and transition to the farther image than rely on blur if it was one of the "intentional mistakes" (which I doubt). Even with the out of focus shot you could start the transition between loops earlier to hide the blur, but then you lose more of the sharp frames and also the video would become mostly edited instead of mostly real footage
@@henryseg
idk if you can motorise the focus or if autofocus is accurate enough to go the right way without overshoot, or if focussing on infinity is possible.
I wouldve suggested using a "camera" that can capture orthographically (therefore you can forego the whole rail setup entirely and zoom digitally) but the perspective..uh perspective..is a really cool way to convey the shape
I suspect that the camera may get closer to the fractal than its lens' minimum focus distance, which causes the blur. Or perhaps it's set to manual focus and that's why it gets blurry. It might have been interesting to see a camera with a longer telephoto lens set further back from the fractal and turn on auto focus with the center of the sensor as the focal point.
I loved that you showed the problem solving process. I can appreciate the loop more knowing the effort that went into it.
The fact that the linear speed has to be exponential while the rotation speed has to be constant, is another clever reminder of the complex relationship between sinusoids and exponentials.
Are you willing to elaborate?
@@adi-ow1cg You should look up Euler's identity. It shows how if you think of x as being some angle in radians then e^(ix)=cos(x)+isin(x). The relation is probably much deeper than this but i think this is what they are referring to.
Rotation speed doesn't have to be constant.
The camera motion is in a completely different axis to the rotation speed, so no wonder rotation speed is irrelevant.
But the orientation at the end of the loop must match as it was in the starting if the images are to line up. That can be achieved even with chaotic rotation.
@@adiadiadi333 Sure, there's no constraint on the absolute speeds of either component, but the relationship between rotational and linear speeds definitely is constrained.
@@AJMansfield1 impressive
MOST IMPRESSIVE
The closeness blurs let on to the reality better than the hand and laser, to be honest. This is such an awesome idea and execution!
yea, although it would look better without the blur lol
He actually mentions it at 8:05
@@TtEL Doesn't make sense though, he proves it through other means. The blur breaks the illusion unfortunately
Should have used a macro lens
Amazing work! It really does look like CGI. I wonder how close you could get a natural fractal to behave like this, like with a fern leaf or broccoli. Less precise than a 3D print I assume, but the detail is better than the print resolution, so it wouldn't look as blurry.
The closest I've seen to something like this is by John Edmark, see www.johnedmark.com/natural-blooms-1.
@@henryseg Nice!
the blur isnt from the object being 3D printed, its from the camera moving closer but still having the same focal length so the object starts to get blurry. If he could also change the camera focus as it slid forward he could make it look much better, and then the 'revert to start' part wouldnt be as obvious as it is now
@codeparade funny seeing you here
@@SpydersByte It's both, you can see that the 3d print only gets so detailed. If there was no blur the lack of fine detail when zoomed in would be more obvious.
This should become a videography hobby in and of itself. The end product really is stellar and you did a good job overcoming the challenges that can arise from this kind of work that requires precision and accuracy. 😁
It is neat how doing it in real life rather than with post processing in software from a photo removes that weird uncanny artifact of smudging. The two products next to each other would not even have a contest because this is in a league of its own.
there already is a whole community who are loopers
1:46 this is the first video i've ever seen that understands that yes, 2d worlds have parallax!! you don't need to have a fog or have objects glow to discern depth in 2 dimensions, you can judge distance by the width of things alone- THANK YOU
The exponential slow down as you zoom makes so much sense, that explains why my 3D fractal zooms always felt like they were timed wrong- thank you!
The continous loss of focus unsettles me on some deep level. Gets my skin crawling to a point where I just want the perpetual loop to end as soon as possible.
I was really excited for this because I recently printed a fractal of the Sierpinski triangle and it's one of my favorite prints. Printing fractals is one of my favorite uses of 3D printing as a beginner.
As ever, your videos are among the most consistently, singularly interesting TH-cam content
The subsurface scattering of that laser with the printed material is just luxurious.
There was a fun juxtaposition between how serious your voice sounds and describing that little clamp as "cute".
The laser illuminating the fractal makes it so much cooler.
i like the transition between blur and clear focus. it also adds to the computer-generated look by making it look like the next fractal iterations are loading in
You could potentially coat the model to reduce the subsurface scattering that is occurring after zooming in. Also, a point source light could reduce the scale variance in the lighting.
There's a diy fake window that uses fresnel lenses and soapy water that would go great here, plus some dynamic focusing
The problem with the blurriness at the end of the loop can't be solved only with focusing. The top third of the fractal has one level less detail than the whole thing, and it's well within the resolution limit of the camera to show that difference. If anything, perfect focus would make the transition point more jarring. Printing the fractal with the same smallest level but three times bigger might not get rid of the problem entirely, but it would be three times less noticeable. You would also need a longer rail or a wider angle lens. Of course, I have no idea if that would make the model too complex to print or even if it would still fit in the printer. Remarkable how good it looks despite this, though! Great job!
Yes, a pinhole could automatically solve the focus and angle of view parts of the problem, but as you say, either a LOT of light or one frame at a time stop motion style.
you'd probably have to first identify the absolute resolution limit your 3d printer is capable of, and then have that limit only used on the 3x smaller copy at the top, and one level less detail on the rest of the fractal, so the before and after shots have the same level of visible imprecision. Though, this might only cover the sides of the smaller copy, as the top of it is another even smaller copy of the whole thing.
You could downscale the whole video to 144p to hide the difference in detail at the loop, but then it sort of looks like crap....
Yeah, adding an extra level of detail to the top third would help, but you would still see that extra detail snapping in at the start of the loop, just only on the top third rather than the whole fractal. The difference in detail would also be noticeable between the two parts during the zoom-in.
Also, doing it manually one frame at a time for long exposures would be much more time-consuming, and you'd have to calculate and measure the exact position for each shot, but it would also remove the requirement to have a motorized slide altogether.
This is incredible. Sometimes what can seem like a really basic shot to a complete amateur (like me), can teach you so much about how it was made, and why there’s nothing basic about any part of this shot. There’s so many cool things about this print, and so many problems in creating this, that I would never have appreciated if I just saw the loop alone. It’s analogous to a fractal itself. The more you look, the more you see. It just goes deeper and deeper and deeper.
oh man this is cool, watching the blurry one fade into a sharper one is so satisfying
There are many videos i have watched on youtube, but this is quality. I can tell I"ll be coming back to rewatch this ,thanks for detailing your process, legend!
ah man the exhibition real life photo zoom is INCREDIBLE.. I am so happy you let me see that, thank you.
Beautiful and brilliant, right down to the precise duration of the final laser-lit loop.
It always amazes me when a person has the patience for such things.
the ending footage with the laser is super cool and mesmerizing
I must point out that in cinematography terms at least, this is no longer a zoom. It is a push as the camera is moving towards the subject. Very impressive.
If you want to do a zoom-only with a single photo, you would need to position the camera very far away (Perhaps you could jerry-rig a 600mm zoom lens for this) so that the difference between the smaller scale version and the larger scale version perspective-wise is negligible, however the way you have done it is wonderfully cinematic.
Right, as I was hoping, the parallax really adds to it. And of course you’re correct about the terminology. Mathematical terms also get plenty of misuse in contexts with a broader audience - it’s fun to be on the other side this time!
What a madman! It's unfathomable the size of his brain just to get the animation recorded and edited, but to explain the process and all the related concepts? My god
Fractals were a thing that brought me to programming, seeing that effect in real-life is super cool! Very nice work!
And I don´t know if this thing has an official name, but your structur is basically a reversed Menger Sponge :)
Dude, this is so freaking cool! Seriously, this is way too rad.
Never stop doing what you do!
dude. youre a genius
Ive tried to do a simple animation loop in my comic "hole" and cant do it properly and its just a 2D drawing!!
youve dome it with a 3D PHYSICAL OBJECT!! its amazing!
Fascinating work! If you have a camera with manual focus adjustment you can get a perfect focus for the whole movement like how the movies use a person doing it manually called focus puller.
videos like this restore my faith in humanity
i love fractals because it gives a glimpse of what the universe looks like
Learning has never been more accessible, thank you for taking the time to make this amazing video. Quite inspiring!
There's an awesome work being put on this video. From the perspective explanation to the exponential zoom.
I don't get how it only has 200k views.
Thank you! You just gave me a better fractal to make in minecraft instead of a serpinski cube!
Or a Menger Sponge
Great walkthrough on how you made it and the end result was awesome!
So cool! I love the fractal in the dark with the laser at the end!
Great work. I'm nerding out so hard!
The way the structure is, it really seems like you could play with many ways of lighting the piece up. To highlight & contrast the textures of the design.
Stunning work!
1:06 I got an existential shiver when you said 2003 was a little over 20 years ago 😅
Tell me about it…
8:40 Shoutout to the cutest clamp of all time being how my Vive Basestations are held for VR lol.
Good transition match cuts between two objects is hard but fixed with a fade.
Good match cuts between takes of the same object is harder.
Good match cuts between takes of a physical fractal is pretty amazing.
Very nice project! I love the infinite zoom on the picture you made you showed at the begining
Wow. I love that you took the time to figure all this out and to share all the details. This really is fascinating. I’ve seen quite a few computer generated fractal zooms, but this is the first real life one I’ve ever seen. Very creative!
Great work! Kinda trippy seeing an "real" fractal object in a video
That was insane! It was hard for my head to believe it was real
The video loop wasn't perfect, but it's still insanely satisfying. I'm not sure whether it's because the camera gets so close it loses a little focus or if the smallest fractals at the top are so small that the 3D printer can't make them look as defined as the larger ones.
Beautiful effect! This video plus the 3d print would make for a great museum piece.
That 3D Koch flake is just incredible! :O
I think I can understand why you didn't also go to the effort of creating an automatic focus adjustment as well, but I think just a touch less blurriness would really sell me on the effect
While moving the camera is the only way to perfectly replicate the dimensions of the fractal, it would probably be close enough to use a long focal length (the longer the better) and then do a digital zoom. Once your focal length gets long enough you may as well have an orthographic camera, and this technique has been used for some other real life illusions that require an orthographic perspective.
Yes, although then the effect wouldn’t look as good. You wouldn’t get any parallax effects as we fly over features.
absolutely mindblowing
This is very interesting, thank you for making this video
Oh man, let's start the morning out with some acid flashbacks!
This is so cool. Thank you for sharing. Also, your voice is really nice to listen to for a long explanation. Thanks for the narration
the zoom in doesnt account for focus which kind of breaks the illusion, amazing work
"anyway, back to the broccoli" is a phrase I never thought I would hear in my lifetime
Bro the laser looks so cool I love it omg
I really appreciate the time and effort you put into your videos. Thanks!
I seen fractals in real life thanks to special truffles and clouds, the combination never fails, just do truffy truffles, look at the clouds, and they'll transform into fractals, shit's amazing.
Great video too.
Wow that looks really cool. If the blur wasn't there, it wouldn't be distinguishable from a simulation
That's pretty cool, I like it!
That very last shot is sick
So, so cool, and so well done!
I love how the coastline zoom has smaller and smaller roads and buildings
Your videos are always such a delight.
Very nice! Have you ever printed a fractal in resin? I had difficulty using filament so I used resin and i'll tell you what, It really hit the sweet spot. Not only is it easier to set up but its more refined, strong and when used with a transparent resin it looks just like some kind of crazy crystal from a scifi movie.
Due to the fractals transparency I am able to appreciate the underlying order and geometric structure of the fractal. And when exposed to a lazer, bad ass. I even attemted to dope the resin with graphene with no success of it being very conductive. Well anyway this is a big inspiration to me.
This looks like an ancient-future technotemple.
Amazing work all around. Truly stellar
The issue with this is that you can tell when the loop restarts. But kudos for doing all the work to get it as good as you did.
Interesting how you came to realize you needed a slide dolly. I think most people even photographers think that different lenses (focal lengths, 50mm, 35mm, ect) are what changes the perspective/foreshortening, like if youve seen how different lenses can make a portrait dramatically different, but it’s really not inherent to the lens at all. The main factor is the distance or position of the camera. Different focal lengths are really just different width cones of vision or fields of view, so a crop essentially. So like how you are having to move the camera closer because it is as if you are scaling down the entire world one octave. Great video btw!
Fantastic!
You make some of the coolest videos out there, thank you man!
6:55 web apps are the worst thing since web coding languages and software licensing.
I loved two things about the video - that you brought up Escher's painting and the Droste Effect, so I found an awesome celebratory, interactive university webpage; and that you kept "putting in imperfections".
Very neat!
Very impressive that 99% this was all done in camera 👏
Really cool video. Though I'd still like to see it done with other fractals or maybe a very high res 3d print so the loop looks more seamless
I stared intensely at those fractal bits that were demonstrated and when it came back to normal video my vision was going crazy lol. The world is bloopin and warpin everywhere like I'm on something lol
The fractal kinda looks like a visualisation of the Collatz Conjecture where any odd number is multiplied by three and added to one!
That is so fun! I'm glad you were able to make it work!
Ah, the motion control rabbit hole. Surely you considered a follow focus at one point?
Also I think having it in reverse, moving out - not in - is an even greater effect.
I got focus pulling sorted out in the follow up video: th-cam.com/video/uH8w7I1Og1I/w-d-xo.html
Brilliant work! Your channel deserves faaar more Subs, Views.
"but have you ever seen a real life fractal zoom?"
Laughs in psilocybin
Fascinating. A temporal context is required.
This is some amazing dedication, really great work!
great final result... i really want to try an recreat this in blender now
*I'm..... so high rn...... and this is like therapeutic af my g*
Amazing work Henry , thank you for sharing the journey
Saw the final video on mathstodon and I’m so amazed to see the work for it!
Thats really cool👍Perhaps with a controlled mechanical focus puller you could properly make the last part with the focus even better. But then you also have to make sure the optic match your minimum focus of course. So properly not worth the money+hassle 🙂
the cutest clamp of all times
1:23 Staring at the broccoli in the middle and cutting to your still image of your plastic fractal was like coming up on acid 😵💫
This legit looks so mesmerizing. So cool that you could do this without any of the distortions! 😊👍👍
This is absolutely insane !! I know it would add a lot more printing time and work but have you considered building a larger fractal pyramid by assembling 9 similar printed pyramids ? You could shoot from farther away, use a different lens, reduce the blur and obtain a greater sensation of infinitely repeating scales.
It would be thirteen smaller prints, and assembling them with the needed precision sounds technically difficult. I guess you could precisely make a metal frame to bolt the prints to. It would be cool to do a bigger, more detailed fractal zoom, but it feels like there are a lot of diminishing returns in this.
@@henryseg Yeah I realized that you also would need to print 6 vertical sides.Thanks for the answer anyway and I'll keep an eye on your work !
the focus is the last thing thats missing to make it look completely computer generated. nice!
Very beautiful and impressive!