@@johndilday1846 Of course. "Del lat. ballista, y este der. del gr. βάλλειν bállein 'lanzar, arrojar" This is the ethimologhy (from the Real Academia de la Lengua). That became _ballistarius_ (the guy who operates a ballista) in late latin and from there to both catalonian (and spanish) ballester(o)
Josep Ganiveter Prim Wow. Thanks very much. I studied Spanish in school, but that was over 40 years ago. I remember how many Spanish words had been adopted into English, and that many, many Spanish words were derived from Latin. I remember that I loved the Spanish language,except for the irregular verbs, of course, lol. Have a great day and thanks again for your input.
@@SeutesTercero ... In my freshman Español class, our teacher might have pronounced it as by-YES-ted. Of course I and many others have Anglicized it into what Ian said in his presentation. Being part of British armaments, it's a good bet that they pronounced it as Ian did, but with a little more tilt to the British accents.
Greetings from Argentina. It is not uncommon to find Ballester Molinas of the British contract with mismatching slide and frame serial numbers. The story here goes that when the first batch of these pistols arrived to Great Britain to be tested, the chief Royal Armourer was not particularly happy with having to deal with guns made in what he regarded as a colonial backwater. He was greatly suspicious of the weapons and therefore he had them disassembled and the component parts thrown in individual drums. Barrels in one, slides in another, frames in another and so on. He then had them reassembled at random and had them tested. The pistols worked flawlessly, having obviously been well manufactured using modern methods as well as to homogeneous and highly precise tolerances. Clearly impressed, the Royal Armourer then gave the approval to the weapons to be issued to Her Majesty's soldiers. But that first batch of pistols was never reassembled with the proper matching slides and frames and so they served in that fashion and some are still to be found around.
Having dealt directly with the fella doing proofing in the London facility in 2008, this sounds totally plausible. “Show me” is definitely their attitude.
Agree completely re: British arrogance respective to imports. I can remember seeing guns stamped with NOT OF ENGLISH MAKE just to rub it in. We had similar notions in the US following WW2. Up until the Japanese started building reliable cars and electronics the American consumer scowled at the MADE IN JAPAN markings on imported goods.
That is exactly what I was thinking. It's especially interesting to see Argentina making guns for the British when later on the two countries would go to war with each other.
rixille well Argentina had already been at war with the UK. And the last war was started by a military dictatorship, so it wasn’t a legitimate government going to war.
The HMS Sheffield and many other destroyers were Type 42 destroyers, the same ship that Argentina had build under British license a year ago before the war, same with the Canberra bomber, British bomber bought before the war. The Argentine carrier was a Colossus class carrier from the Royal Navy.
Maybe, but those grips look so fragile - a simple flat bottom exposing the grain to splitting. Worst looking grips I've ever seen, IMO, and on such a nicely rounded frame and backstrap.
@333badcat Some South American hardwoods are extremely hard, and of course my idea of good looks doesn't rule the world. [Although it should ;) ] But I also just can't see why they didn't round the bottom for handling or damage prevention or just plain good looks.
Ballester Molina: "Hey can I copy your homework?" John Moses Browning: "Sure, just change it so the teacher doesn't know you copied." Ballester Molina:
Luypjv Whvsv Jvyvuhkv they copied Star, not the 1911...the disconnector has nothing to do with Colt, but it is a Star copy, and in general, it is a better pistol than the 1911.
@@enricopaolocoronado2511 lol that feeling of defeat when you realize even if you explain the joke to him he will still manage to figure out some way in which you were WRONG AND HE IS RIGHT
Some curious: In the 50s two provinces of Argentina changed their names. Chaco Province became "Provincia Presidente Perón" and La Pampa Province became "Provincia Eva Perón". The BMs of the police of this provinces have the respectives Marks. After the revolution of 1955 That provinces return to their original names and the marks of Pistols were erased. So few Pistols survived this erased procedure and actualy are very scarce. Another curiosity: the personal pistol of Engineer Carlos Ballester Molina is a model "Campeón" (Champion), the only Campeón in 45 ACP with 7 inch barrel, with fins, and the engraved leyend: " No me gustan los importadores" (I don´t like importers). Unas curiosidades: en los 50s 2 provincias argentinas cambiaron sus nombres, Chaco pasó a llamarse Provincia Presidente Perón y La Pampa Provincia Eva Perón. Las BMs de las respectivas policías fueron marcadas así. Después de la revolución de 1955 las provicias volvieron a sus nombres originales y se borraron las inscripciones, muy pocas BMs sobrevivieron a esa borrado y por lo tanto son escasas. Otra curiosidad. La pistola personal del Ingeniero Carlos Ballester Molina era una modelo Campeón (la única campeón calibre 45 ACP que existe según entiendo) con cañon de 7 pulgadas y aleteado, con la inscripción "No me gustan los importadores"
Secret agents buy non standard firearm from a non traditional source to have plausible deniability, promptly proceeds to add own unique serial numbers.
While that's an amusing thought, I think using the most-standard firearm from the most-traditional source (a suitable one, eg. german) would give better deniability and be less traceable than a unicorn gun...
@@jasondoe2596 I can't see the deniability issue either, if the user was captured it's pretty easy to identify their nationality. Maybe there was some political reason?
There was a plan during WW1 for Britain to supply Germany with rubber in exchange for Zeiss optics, via Switzerland - I've always wondered if there was a similar plan during WW2, perhaps with Sweden or Switzerland as an intermediary. The OSS could have done with some Walter PPKs.
If it's well-fitted & blended it's not all that noticeable, but getting rid of it isn't a bad idea at all. Curious as to how the hammer spring etc. is retained...
i love those Ballester Molina guns... i had a friend who had a Ballester Rigaud which belonged to his grandfather, these are classics here in Argentina and very cared by their owners... in fact, they are so cared that they are sold with a lot of extra charge in them. There are also 1911s that belonged to policeofficers in Argentina, produced by Fabricaciones Militares, which were nicknamed "sistema colt" these are a little more weared but are way cheaper
I love all the M1911 Variants. Used to have a STAR collection, well sort of a total of 3 pistols in the Star Line up, a BK BKM and a wonderful little PD. I got the PD for cheap because it was missing a front sight insert that had been installed at some point in it's life. I took a red tooth brush and carved an insert to fit, epoxied it in place and polished her with some 4000 grit emery paper to give it that almost factory look and when she was done she served me as my conceal carry till one of my buddies on the Police Department talked me out of the little jewel. The BK and BKM were only with me for a few months when an old high school pal purchased my entire collection of firearms from me (with a damn bad check but that is another story) and the whole collection ended up in our confiscated property room after he went off the deep end and holed up with my gun collection at a point where I was called to talk him out. I was both embarrassed and must have looked a bit sheepish as I cataloged his (my) firearm collection into the property room. Eventually his family claimed the guns as he was in the State Mental Hospital (transported by me and the good sheriff, it was screwed UP!) for the criminally insane (some 400 miles in the Sheriff's Car) for his assault against myself and the County Sheriff as we arrested him for assaulting the Chief of Police of a neighboring town. One of those deals, where we were the very best of friends when in our youth, he is better now but will no longer even speak to me. Being a police officer is not a happy occupation.
What a beautiful pistol! Love how that bluing just picks up every single swipe of the finger! That shows that this pistol is in almost like new condition and that bluing was very carefully and lovingly applied. What a gem. I wold love to add this to my arsenal!
I am familiar with the B-M, it seems like a good solid design. I can certainly see the Star elements in it. Never heard of the British contract though. Makes sense. They would not have wanted to use Lend-Lease 1911's or Victory Model S&W's in SOE, certainly. Probably used all the captured German arms they could. The condition on that sample is incredible. Glad to see that there are some in such good condition. Great video as always. Thank you
Ballesters have a reputation of very fine finishes. This one in particular looks like a custom blueing job, from what little I've read, this is typical. Of course they're all pretty old and saw heavy use, clean examples are getting more and more rare.
I suspect the "missing" guns are at the bottom of the ocean, courtesy of the U-Boat arm. It's a long journey to Britain from South America, so lots of chances for a Type VII or Type IX to have found the ship. Even if Argentina was neutral, lots of neutral shipping was sunk by U-boats, whether by accident or on purpose.
One possibility of the missing serial numbers might also be that if indeed these were transported under the lend lease act, it's very possible that one or more of the ships that might have been carrying certain batches of the guns might have been sunk by German u boats in the Atlantic. This does not account for the mismatched serial numbers, but it does account for some that might be missing from the total percentage that the British bought on paper.
I was give my grandfather's, (WWII Vet), B-M .45, years ago. I'm doing my research. This has a B6xxx S/N with proofing stamps on frame and slide. Nothing on the barrel. Mags have "H/A" diamond stamps. So, is it my understanding that if the handgun has proofing stamps that it was never issued?...and sold as surplus after the war? (Likely never seeing service?) Thanks for your video.
A 'Neutral' Country that lent heavily towards the Third Reich reciving Steel from the British, via America to make guns to fight the Third Reich. Just shows money trumps everything!
Nice! I always liked 1911 pattern guns, not everyones cup of tea I know but I like them. That's a particularly nice looking gun, don't know if its as its in such nice condition or the little differences in the design? But I think it looks pretty spiffy.
@Ric O’shea I'll never fully understand why the UK's mishmash of Metric and other measurements is not a big deal to a whole of the internet trolls. But US using F instead of C is a crime against humanity? *shrug*
@@SlavicCelery did I hear someone say Ferinheight? *starts checking around in the bushes - looks squarely in the face of a pom saying 'stone'* "hm - musta been the wind"
The documentation regarding these pistols is of course still available ( the British secret service throws no documentation away) and is probably filed in the cabinet next to the one where the cheques Benjamin Franklin cashed are kept :)
Greetings from Argentine Patagonia, great video. Here There are two false rumours about BM. 1- The Steel used was obtained from German Crusier Graf Spee, sunk in Rio de la Plata in December 1939, in fact sunk in the uruguayan part of the river. 2- Like you say, the BM was request by UK for the 8th Army because it has not grip safety and, for that reason has not trouble with sand of Sahara. Both false. Some BM end in 8th army, but most of them went to SOE in places like Yugoslavia, Grece and Italy in the hands of Guerrilla/Partisans. Saludos desde la Patagonia Argentina, excelente video. Aquí hay 2 falsos rumores sobre las BM: 1- QUe el acero usado fue obtenido del crucero alemán Graf Spee, hundido en el Rio de la Plata en diciembre de 1939, de hecho en la mitad uruguaya del río. 2- Que el Reino unido requirió las BM para el 8vo ejército porque al no tener seguro de empuñadura no sería afectada por la arena del desierto. Ambos falsos. Algunas BM terminaron en el 8vo ejército pero la mayoría fue usada por el SOE en lugares como Yugoslavia, Grecia e Italia en manos de Guerrileros/Partisanos
I tought that the british contract Ballester Molina were chambered in .455 Webley & Scott Auto. My grandfather was an argentine officer and had one chambered in .45 ACP. beautiful pistol. When he die, the Army claims the pistol and surely was destroyed. sigh....
I bought a British stamped version and the previous owner had no idea. He had put grip tape on it and shot thousands of rounds through it. No clue what it is worth in rough condition, but positive it’s worth more than the $200 I paid for his “knock off 1911”
In the book, "A Man Called Intrepid," Intrepid (aka Mr. Stephenson) describes his approval of the purchase as pistols that could not readily be traced back to the United Kingdom as the point of origin. No doubt the B serial number made that harder which is probably why some of those did not go to the SOE (Secret Service).
The UK did set up a dummy scrap metal company in Uruguay, and did manage to get the contract to scrap the Graf Spee's wreck. But I've got a vague feeling that I've heard that part of the story (scrap steel to Argentina) before.
@@ForgottenWeapons Thanks. That was really interesting. On a completely different note - I just saw this slo mo video of someone shooting a .50 round in the primer and setting it off. th-cam.com/video/OhUmMM1MZ8s/w-d-xo.html and thought that the manner in which the .50 round comes apart was interesting. .
Fuddiest of fuddlore. That said, sailors stripped the ship bare before scuttling and lotsa trinkets ended un in Argentina (and elsewhere). Chinaware, various bits and bobs, etc.
I'm fairly certain that's his handgun that he's used in a number of 2 gun matches. But he could have more than one....which does match his overall brand.
Colt was selling them thousands of M1911 A1s. Why did they need a proprietary 1911 derivative that doesn't have parts that are interchangeable with M1911 A1s?
Hola, Ian. Veo que tenes varios videos de armas argentinas y hace un buen tiempo tengo algo que pedirte; que, por favor, crees un "playlist" con nuestro nombre y bandera, porque veo que esta en una con el nombre "southamerica", no solo que no existe un continente ni subcontinente con ese nombre, sino que ningún otra playlist incluye un bloque geográfico. Sería un honor para mí que me des ese reconocimiento. Muchas gracias por tus vídeos con los que aprendo también Inglés (la parte escrita la debo🤗). Saludos de un argentino residente en Texas.
So which would be more valuable, the one in lovely but unissued condition with postwar proof marks, or one in "fought a war" condition and no proof marks (meaning a war souvenir)? Does condition trump history in this case, or the other way around?
Whilst this is just idle speculation, SOE may have contracted to not receive a single coherent block of serial numbers. I'm not sure how prevelent "Operational Research" (Statistical Analysis/Warfare) was in 1940 when the guns were ordered, but it seems fairly intuitive to note that if all your secret guns are in the same Serial Number range, it's easier for the enemy to track your secret guns. It may be a miniscule difference, but hey, they were inventing modern Spycraft/Special Forces. In the same vein how SEAL Team Six wasn't founded after SEAL Teams One through Five etc. Or they just pulled random guns off the production line. I know which possibility is more *fun.*
@Diego Ducatenzeiler Ahh, now we see how the Black Budget is funded! Forget the drug running, Selling Surplus firearms to collectors is where the *real* money is!
Hi Ian! Could you possibly do a video on TE and MW, and how it pertains to M1 Garands you often see listed for sale with those numbers (what they mean, etc)?
I wonder if some of the rumours of these being used by British troops in North Africa might have a shred of truth? It makes sense to me that a British liason, or anyone serving in a mostly American sector, would want a powerful handgun that takes standard American magazines. So I suspect there were quite a few 1911s and, possibly, Ballester-Molinas, floating around, especially with the LRDP. This is kind of a dream gun for me, I very much want one. It'll compliment my old 45ACP double-action revolver!
@Gun Jesus @Forgotten Weapons Hey Ian, I wondered if you could imagine yourself doing some malfunction diagnosis videos. It would be very interesting to see malfunctions in slow motion with commentary, tear down and talk about options. I just ruminated about it when I saw the Wildey Survivor video with the adjustable gas system. Seeing iterations of something like that would be really cool. I hope you go to Finnish Brutality with Karl.
There had to be a huge "bribe" in steel too, to the Argentine govt, to allow the company to manufacture the guns. (In addition to the steel to make them and the cost in steel.) Because the steel to make them and the steel from the purchase is not very much steel.
It's possible. But much of the (pragmatic) opposition came down to the unwillingness of exporting war equipment which was both needed at home, and was not available abroad. There was no financial incentive behind it either, since grains/meat/etc exports were through the roof at this point in time.
Is Forgotten Weapons no longer on Full30? Just curious. I did like that because it went live before Work so I could have breakfast watching my favorite channel :(
I have always found it interesting how certain weapon designs seem to find there way into multiple weapon platforms. On a side note, as of this posting 4 people gave this video a thumbs down. I am curious, is it a dislike of guns, of Ian, of the SOE, of Argentina? The video quality and content was exactly as advertised, so why would you thumbs down it? If its any of the four I mentioned, why watch the video to begin with? Why click? Oh well, guess I'll never know...
chron001 because downvoting is currently the only foolproof way to ensure you won't be bombarded by Forgotten Weapons videos (or any other) in your YT suggestions after watching. If you don't, YT's super-sophisticated algorithm will pester you with recommendation, until the end of time, including invariably the video you've just watched.
Rumor has it that some of the steel for these guns actually came from the scuttled pocket battleship Graf Spee, which was scuttled off the coast and the salvage rights purchased by a British shell company.
@@hanktorrance6855 This article? www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2014/1/30/investigation-of-a-legend-the-graf-spee-and-the-ballester-molina/ The article didn't prove the steel used for the pistols came from the armor of the Graf Spee since it lacked certain elements. It didn't prove it didn't come from the Graf Spee either. Either way, the chances are HAFDASA used steel that is NOT from the wreck as the chances of coincidence is too slim to happen...
Ohlourdes Padua I never said it proved it, the article left it as could it be...I was just pointing out that the rumor was documented in the American Rifleman...
@@hanktorrance6855 And that rumor should be put to rest. It's bad enough gun provenance is full of misinterpretations and myths perpetuated by people older and more ignorant than a slice of Christmas ham, misreprensentations and myths Ian, Karl, and Othias are dillegently countering in their videos...
I read a lot of coments about "Molester ballerina" It´s true!!! jajajaja. I never noticed that because in Spanish is not an evident sentence. But some argentine shooters nicknamed "La Bella Ester" (The Beauty Esther) Which have sense in Spanish language using the first name of the pistol. He leído varios comentarios sobre la "Molester ballerina" (la bailarina acosadora) y es verdad!! jajaajajaj. Nunca me había dado cuenta ya que en Español no es una oración evidente. Pero algunos tiradores argentinos la llaman "La Bella Ester" lo cual si tiene sentido en Español usando el primero nombre de la pistola.
![แข่งเพิ่มน้ำหนักใน 24 ชั่วโมง!! [Ver 2025]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/20xn0g6k-ec/mqdefault.jpg)
My grandfather was a cop here in Argentina. The regular version was the standard service pistol for police officers in Buenos Aires.
No one runs faster than Mr Molina
La rosarina? La 45 de la bonaerense
This is like a 1911 written in cursive
and translated from English, to Spanish, to English again
Yeah the gun looks good
@ureapwhatusow yeah think that why
_1911_
well yes but yes
*Ba•yeh•ster* Is a catalonian name meaning soldier armed with a crossbow or crossbow maker. It's a good name for a gunsmith.
Josep Ganiveter Prim Any relationship to the Latin word “Ballista”. For the Roman giant crossbow?
@@johndilday1846 Of course. "Del lat. ballista, y este der. del gr. βάλλειν bállein 'lanzar, arrojar" This is the ethimologhy (from the Real Academia de la Lengua). That became _ballistarius_ (the guy who operates a ballista) in late latin and from there to both catalonian (and spanish) ballester(o)
Josep Ganiveter Prim Wow. Thanks very much. I studied Spanish in school, but that was over 40 years ago. I remember how many Spanish words had been adopted into English, and that many, many Spanish words were derived from Latin. I remember that I loved the Spanish language,except for the irregular verbs, of course, lol. Have a great day and thanks again for your input.
@@johndilday1846 You're welcome. Thanks for your kind words :)
@@SeutesTercero ... In my freshman Español class, our teacher might have pronounced it as by-YES-ted. Of course I and many others have Anglicized it into what Ian said in his presentation. Being part of British armaments, it's a good bet that they pronounced it as Ian did, but with a little more tilt to the British accents.
Greetings from Argentina. It is not uncommon to find Ballester Molinas of the British contract with mismatching slide and frame serial numbers. The story here goes that when the first batch of these pistols arrived to Great Britain to be tested, the chief Royal Armourer was not particularly happy with having to deal with guns made in what he regarded as a colonial backwater. He was greatly suspicious of the weapons and therefore he had them disassembled and the component parts thrown in individual drums. Barrels in one, slides in another, frames in another and so on. He then had them reassembled at random and had them tested. The pistols worked flawlessly, having obviously been well manufactured using modern methods as well as to homogeneous and highly precise tolerances. Clearly impressed, the Royal Armourer then gave the approval to the weapons to be issued to Her Majesty's soldiers. But that first batch of pistols was never reassembled with the proper matching slides and frames and so they served in that fashion and some are still to be found around.
Having dealt directly with the fella doing proofing in the London facility in 2008, this sounds totally plausible. “Show me” is definitely their attitude.
Agree completely re: British arrogance respective to imports. I can remember seeing guns stamped with NOT OF ENGLISH MAKE just to rub it in. We had similar notions in the US following WW2. Up until the Japanese started building reliable cars and electronics the American consumer scowled at the MADE IN JAPAN markings on imported goods.
I think Ian generates 80% of the internet's Ballester Molina related content.
You may be lowballing it
Gorgeous looking pistol, and fascinating history. Never knew about the SOE contract!*
*which, I concede, is kind of the point with the SOE
So American steel, an Argentine factory and use by British special operations. Man war makes for interesting origins
That is exactly what I was thinking. It's especially interesting to see Argentina making guns for the British when later on the two countries would go to war with each other.
rixille well Argentina had already been at war with the UK. And the last war was started by a military dictatorship, so it wasn’t a legitimate government going to war.
Japanese bought a lot of American steel prewar. Think on that one!
@@josecbritos The argies fought with honor, that was counts regarding of the government in charge.
British special forces have a tradition of using foreign weapons whenever possible, it adds a layer of deniability of the weapons are captured.
BRITAIN 1942 : 'Hey Argentina we'll buy some of your guns'
BRITAIN 1982: ' I think we should stop seeing each other"
Unless it’s through a scope lens or similar...
malvinas
The HMS Sheffield and many other destroyers were Type 42 destroyers, the same ship that Argentina had build under British license a year ago before the war, same with the Canberra bomber, British bomber bought before the war. The Argentine carrier was a Colossus class carrier from the Royal Navy.
The Argentine Type-42 was bulit in the 70s not just one year before the war@@Anon-1870
@@elpelucasape89 dale masa peluca
I imagine that angling the slide serrations to match the lines on the grips would look really sharp.
Maybe, but those grips look so fragile - a simple flat bottom exposing the grain to splitting. Worst looking grips I've ever seen, IMO, and on such a nicely rounded frame and backstrap.
@333badcat Some South American hardwoods are extremely hard, and of course my idea of good looks doesn't rule the world. [Although it should ;) ]
But I also just can't see why they didn't round the bottom for handling or damage prevention or just plain good looks.
The polishing looks especially beautiful
A WAG regarding the numbers: every so often, they needed actual cash so they pulled some guns from the production run and sold them.
A non sequential set of serials would have suited SOE down to the ground. No way of identifying them that way.
Ballester Molina: "Hey can I copy your homework?"
John Moses Browning: "Sure, just change it so the teacher doesn't know you copied."
Ballester Molina:
Luypjv Whvsv Jvyvuhkv they copied Star, not the 1911...the disconnector has nothing to do with Colt, but it is a Star copy, and in general, it is a better pistol than the 1911.
@@Provo647 dude, it's a joke. Yes, I'm aware the Star pistols have parts incompatible with Colt 1911 pistols.
@@Provo647 If r/woosh wasn't so overused... Well, you get the point. How stupid some people are never ceases to amaze me.
@@enricopaolocoronado2511 lol that feeling of defeat when you realize even if you explain the joke to him he will still manage to figure out some way in which you were WRONG AND HE IS RIGHT
@@enricopaolocoronado2511 also I meant to send both of those replies to you 😂lol oh well atl dude might finally get the joke
Some curious: In the 50s two provinces of Argentina changed their names. Chaco Province became "Provincia Presidente Perón" and La Pampa Province became "Provincia Eva Perón". The BMs of the police of this provinces have the respectives Marks. After the revolution of 1955 That provinces return to their original names and the marks of Pistols were erased. So few Pistols survived this erased procedure and actualy are very scarce. Another curiosity: the personal pistol of Engineer Carlos Ballester Molina is a model "Campeón" (Champion), the only Campeón in 45 ACP with 7 inch barrel, with fins, and the engraved leyend: " No me gustan los importadores" (I don´t like importers). Unas curiosidades: en los 50s 2 provincias argentinas cambiaron sus nombres, Chaco pasó a llamarse Provincia Presidente Perón y La Pampa Provincia Eva Perón. Las BMs de las respectivas policías fueron marcadas así. Después de la revolución de 1955 las provicias volvieron a sus nombres originales y se borraron las inscripciones, muy pocas BMs sobrevivieron a esa borrado y por lo tanto son escasas. Otra curiosidad. La pistola personal del Ingeniero Carlos Ballester Molina era una modelo Campeón (la única campeón calibre 45 ACP que existe según entiendo) con cañon de 7 pulgadas y aleteado, con la inscripción "No me gustan los importadores"
Learning something new every day! That is a quite interesting info. Also you've earned a heart!
Secret agents buy non standard firearm from a non traditional source to have plausible deniability, promptly proceeds to add own unique serial numbers.
And then also order it in calibre not readily available in occupied Europe.
@@IceWolfLoki thinked planed
While that's an amusing thought, I think using the most-standard firearm from the most-traditional source (a suitable one, eg. german) would give better deniability and be less traceable than a unicorn gun...
@@jasondoe2596 I can't see the deniability issue either, if the user was captured it's pretty easy to identify their nationality.
Maybe there was some political reason?
There was a plan during WW1 for Britain to supply Germany with rubber in exchange for Zeiss optics, via Switzerland - I've always wondered if there was a similar plan during WW2, perhaps with Sweden or Switzerland as an intermediary. The OSS could have done with some Walter PPKs.
Such a beautiful gun.. Condition is superb.. Like it was taken out of the factory a week ago instead of so many years back 👍
I love my Ballester, solid steel instead of grip safety makes the recoil much better.
1911 without a grip safety. Perfection.
What’s wrong with the grip safety? Never bothered me
I agree I've always felt that the grip safety to be uncomfortable for me
@@jangamaster8677 Its unnecessary, that's honestly it
If it's well-fitted & blended it's not all that noticeable, but getting rid of it isn't a bad idea at all. Curious as to how the hammer spring etc. is retained...
I personally like the grip safety on 1911's. Maybe I'm weird.
I wish I had bought a couple Ballesters back when they were $175 out of SOG.
I remember back in the 1960s when they were around $25-$35 at the time. They are excellent guns.
i love those Ballester Molina guns... i had a friend who had a Ballester Rigaud which belonged to his grandfather, these are classics here in Argentina and very cared by their owners... in fact, they are so cared that they are sold with a lot of extra charge in them.
There are also 1911s that belonged to policeofficers in Argentina, produced by Fabricaciones Militares, which were nicknamed "sistema colt" these are a little more weared but are way cheaper
I love all the M1911 Variants. Used to have a STAR collection, well sort of a total of 3 pistols in the Star Line up, a BK BKM and a wonderful little PD. I got the PD for cheap because it was missing a front sight insert that had been installed at some point in it's life. I took a red tooth brush and carved an insert to fit, epoxied it in place and polished her with some 4000 grit emery paper to give it that almost factory look and when she was done she served me as my conceal carry till one of my buddies on the Police Department talked me out of the little jewel. The BK and BKM were only with me for a few months when an old high school pal purchased my entire collection of firearms from me (with a damn bad check but that is another story) and the whole collection ended up in our confiscated property room after he went off the deep end and holed up with my gun collection at a point where I was called to talk him out. I was both embarrassed and must have looked a bit sheepish as I cataloged his (my) firearm collection into the property room. Eventually his family claimed the guns as he was in the State Mental Hospital (transported by me and the good sheriff, it was screwed UP!) for the criminally insane (some 400 miles in the Sheriff's Car) for his assault against myself and the County Sheriff as we arrested him for assaulting the Chief of Police of a neighboring town. One of those deals, where we were the very best of friends when in our youth, he is better now but will no longer even speak to me. Being a police officer is not a happy occupation.
Always there to calm my mind on a rough night. Thanks Ian also talked my dad into getting one of these years ago
Thank you for showing us different and interesting firearms day after day, Ian. I never want to know youtube without you
What a beautiful pistol! Love how that bluing just picks up every single swipe of the finger! That shows that this pistol is in almost like new condition and that bluing was very carefully and lovingly applied. What a gem. I wold love to add this to my arsenal!
I am familiar with the B-M, it seems like a good solid design. I can certainly see the Star elements in it. Never heard of the British contract though. Makes sense. They would not have wanted to use Lend-Lease 1911's or Victory Model S&W's in SOE, certainly. Probably used all the captured German arms they could. The condition on that sample is incredible. Glad to see that there are some in such good condition. Great video as always. Thank you
I don't know what it is with me and the 1911's design. I see a 1911 or a 1911-looking gun and I drool. That is one gorgeous piece!
Ballesters have a reputation of very fine finishes. This one in particular looks like a custom blueing job, from what little I've read, this is typical. Of course they're all pretty old and saw heavy use, clean examples are getting more and more rare.
The Peron Age Was Too Awkward and Horrible epoch Like The Dictadure Of 76
Gun Jesus has blessed us with another gem
Amen🔥🔫
Amen.
I suspect the "missing" guns are at the bottom of the ocean, courtesy of the U-Boat arm. It's a long journey to Britain from South America, so lots of chances for a Type VII or Type IX to have found the ship. Even if Argentina was neutral, lots of neutral shipping was sunk by U-boats, whether by accident or on purpose.
The Brits dumped alot of weapons after the war
Inb4, "molester ballerina" model pistol
It should be Ballerina Molester!?
waiting for this lolololol
@@RiderOftheNorth1968
Poh tay toh🥔
Poh tah toh🥔
Toh may toh🍅
Toh mah toh🍅
@@Menaceblue3 Let's call the whole thing Ballerina... 😉 😆 (odd name for a *gun* LOL!)
Thank you , Ian .
One possibility of the missing serial numbers might also be that if indeed these were transported under the lend lease act, it's very possible that one or more of the ships that might have been carrying certain batches of the guns might have been sunk by German u boats in the Atlantic. This does not account for the mismatched serial numbers, but it does account for some that might be missing from the total percentage that the British bought on paper.
I was give my grandfather's, (WWII Vet), B-M .45, years ago. I'm doing my research. This has a B6xxx S/N with proofing stamps on frame and slide. Nothing on the barrel. Mags have "H/A" diamond stamps.
So, is it my understanding that if the handgun has proofing stamps that it was never issued?...and sold as surplus after the war? (Likely never seeing service?)
Thanks for your video.
The British using a gun made in Argentina? I bet that was real popular after 82.
Ouch! Haha
Meh.
They were long out of inventory by then.
A 'Neutral' Country that lent heavily towards the Third Reich reciving Steel from the British, via America to make guns to fight the Third Reich. Just shows money trumps everything!
We have not got a problem with Argentinians, we just had a problem with the dictatorship, and we dealt with that.
@@51WCDodge or that international relationships are more complicated than they appear on the surface.
Naaaah.
Can't be anything nuanced like that...
Nice! I always liked 1911 pattern guns, not everyones cup of tea I know but I like them. That's a particularly nice looking gun, don't know if its as its in such nice condition or the little differences in the design? But I think it looks pretty spiffy.
If only I knew how many tons per square inch my pistol's barrel could handle.
About as many rods to the hogshead my automobile gets.
@Ric O’shea Do they convert it to Stone first, or is that second?
@Ric O’shea I'll never fully understand why the UK's mishmash of Metric and other measurements is not a big deal to a whole of the internet trolls. But US using F instead of C is a crime against humanity? *shrug*
@@SlavicCelery did I hear someone say Ferinheight? *starts checking around in the bushes - looks squarely in the face of a pom saying 'stone'* "hm - musta been the wind"
Arguably makes sense to see that they didn't have a dedicated serial number range, plausible deniability and all that
The documentation regarding these pistols is of course still available ( the British secret service throws no documentation away) and is probably filed in the cabinet next to the one where the cheques Benjamin Franklin cashed are kept :)
Looks like a pretty decent quality handgun.... :) the finish looks very nice to me :)
Great video as always!
Greetings from Argentine Patagonia, great video. Here There are two false rumours about BM. 1- The Steel used was obtained from German Crusier Graf Spee, sunk in Rio de la Plata in December 1939, in fact sunk in the uruguayan part of the river. 2- Like you say, the BM was request by UK for the 8th Army because it has not grip safety and, for that reason has not trouble with sand of Sahara. Both false. Some BM end in 8th army, but most of them went to SOE in places like Yugoslavia, Grece and Italy in the hands of Guerrilla/Partisans. Saludos desde la Patagonia Argentina, excelente video. Aquí hay 2 falsos rumores sobre las BM: 1- QUe el acero usado fue obtenido del crucero alemán Graf Spee, hundido en el Rio de la Plata en diciembre de 1939, de hecho en la mitad uruguaya del río. 2- Que el Reino unido requirió las BM para el 8vo ejército porque al no tener seguro de empuñadura no sería afectada por la arena del desierto. Ambos falsos. Algunas BM terminaron en el 8vo ejército pero la mayoría fue usada por el SOE en lugares como Yugoslavia, Grecia e Italia en manos de Guerrileros/Partisanos
th-cam.com/video/oboHoqtVl3o/w-d-xo.html
@@ForgottenWeapons Brilliant explanation, Thanks. Brillante explicación, gracias
Owned 2 of these shot surprisingly well.
I tought that the british contract Ballester Molina were chambered in .455 Webley & Scott Auto. My grandfather was an argentine officer and had one chambered in .45 ACP. beautiful pistol. When he die, the Army claims the pistol and surely was destroyed. sigh....
i wonder how many people have a gun like that and think it is just an old 1911
And its probably worth more since 1911s are still being made.
@@NoobGyver probably not that much more. I see a Ballister Molina's online going between 400-600.
ColdDiceConspiracy
But an SOE one will be worth a hell of a lot more
@@ColdDiceConspiracy yeah but they are still not as common as 1911
I bought a British stamped version and the previous owner had no idea. He had put grip tape on it and shot thousands of rounds through it. No clue what it is worth in rough condition, but positive it’s worth more than the $200 I paid for his “knock off 1911”
In the book, "A Man Called Intrepid," Intrepid (aka Mr. Stephenson) describes his approval of the purchase as pistols that could not readily be traced back to the United Kingdom as the point of origin. No doubt the B serial number made that harder which is probably why some of those did not go to the SOE (Secret Service).
Nuestra Ballester-Molina 💪🇦🇷
I find it quite funny how basically every nation just waited to see who would win before they got involved
For dirty deeds, done dirt cheap.
Is that a JoJo-
@@tlshortyshorty5810 is than an AC/DC reference?
@@El-Burrito Yep.
I always wanted a very simple 1911 with only the thumb safty and no grip safty.
Awesome and informative. Would love to see a lot more British based stuff.
Lovely pistol.
Oh look, another 1911 looking gun !
better than a Glock...
Thanks for the vid sir.👍🏼👍🏼
Nice pistol.
Interesting back story.
My grandfather had one exactly like that one but in 22. Lr.
Wasn't some of the steel supplied reputedly recovered from the Graf Spee? or is that an old wives tale?
th-cam.com/video/oboHoqtVl3o/w-d-xo.html
The UK did set up a dummy scrap metal company in Uruguay, and did manage to get the contract to scrap the Graf Spee's wreck. But I've got a vague feeling that I've heard that part of the story (scrap steel to Argentina) before.
@@ForgottenWeapons Thanks. That was really interesting.
On a completely different note - I just saw this slo mo video of someone shooting a .50 round in the primer and setting it off.
th-cam.com/video/OhUmMM1MZ8s/w-d-xo.html
and thought that the manner in which the .50 round comes apart was interesting.
.
@@ForgottenWeapons LOL. *Knew* I'd heard about this before... just couldn't remember where.
Fuddiest of fuddlore. That said, sailors stripped the ship bare before scuttling and lotsa trinkets ended un in Argentina (and elsewhere). Chinaware, various bits and bobs, etc.
00:05:04 is that Ian´s fingerprint on the slide??? if it is then the price of that pistol goes up by 100% now
I'm fairly certain that's his handgun that he's used in a number of 2 gun matches. But he could have more than one....which does match his overall brand.
@@SlavicCelery This exact pistol, matching serial number to the video, is on GunBroker for $3k. I don't think it's Ian's but it might soon be lol.
@@woohoo8315 Well that's using a name for money right there.
@@SlavicCelery i dont know if it is his gun or will one day be, it was a joke :)
Colt was selling them thousands of M1911 A1s. Why did they need a proprietary 1911 derivative that doesn't have parts that are interchangeable with M1911 A1s?
Oh Ian loves Molina's
Love those grips
Anyone with a C&R can get a non-SOE Ballister Molina for 530 dollars on gunbroker right now. Just an fyi. There is another one on there for 3,250.
Hola, Ian. Veo que tenes varios videos de armas argentinas y hace un buen tiempo tengo algo que pedirte; que, por favor, crees un "playlist" con nuestro nombre y bandera, porque veo que esta en una con el nombre "southamerica", no solo que no existe un continente ni subcontinente con ese nombre, sino que ningún otra playlist incluye un bloque geográfico.
Sería un honor para mí que me des ese reconocimiento. Muchas gracias por tus vídeos con los que aprendo también Inglés (la parte escrita la debo🤗).
Saludos de un argentino residente en Texas.
So which would be more valuable, the one in lovely but unissued condition with postwar proof marks, or one in "fought a war" condition and no proof marks (meaning a war souvenir)? Does condition trump history in this case, or the other way around?
Now if only there was a modern version with a double stack frame, better grips, flat mainspring housing, ambidextrous controls, and a light/laser rail
Hi, Ian. Did you secretly take it out to the range and give it a go? It is a secretive gun, after all. Thanks for sharing! Stay healthy!
I really want an FN Five-Seven video but it's not a Forgotten Weapon.
Would you please do a "Guns of Peaky Blinders"? I'm in the middle of a Peaky Blinders marathon and love seeing the progression of their gun technology
Whilst this is just idle speculation, SOE may have contracted to not receive a single coherent block of serial numbers. I'm not sure how prevelent "Operational Research" (Statistical Analysis/Warfare) was in 1940 when the guns were ordered, but it seems fairly intuitive to note that if all your secret guns are in the same Serial Number range, it's easier for the enemy to track your secret guns. It may be a miniscule difference, but hey, they were inventing modern Spycraft/Special Forces.
In the same vein how SEAL Team Six wasn't founded after SEAL Teams One through Five etc.
Or they just pulled random guns off the production line. I know which possibility is more *fun.*
@Diego Ducatenzeiler Ahh, now we see how the Black Budget is funded! Forget the drug running, Selling Surplus firearms to collectors is where the *real* money is!
Hi Ian! Could you possibly do a video on TE and MW, and how it pertains to M1 Garands you often see listed for sale with those numbers (what they mean, etc)?
Who couldve predicted the chaos that would unfold between the two nations 23 years later...
Is it just me, or is that a particularly sexy 1911?
A 1911 with a certain Latin flair.
@@SlavicCelery the Ballester-Molina: proving a 1911 can be sexy without pearl grips...
@@nolanolivier6791 But would it be sexier with those grips? Probably.
I wonder if some of the rumours of these being used by British troops in North Africa might have a shred of truth?
It makes sense to me that a British liason, or anyone serving in a mostly American sector, would want a powerful handgun that takes standard American magazines. So I suspect there were quite a few 1911s and, possibly, Ballester-Molinas, floating around, especially with the LRDP.
This is kind of a dream gun for me, I very much want one. It'll compliment my old 45ACP double-action revolver!
Otro gran video del jesus de los fierros. Que grande
Nice looking pistol
Ballester Molina orgullo argentino!!!
Elegant firearm.
I thought the thumb said ".50 AE Ballester Molina." Was much confuse.
Phantom thumb @6:48
Wow you guys are fast
@Gun Jesus @Forgotten Weapons
Hey Ian, I wondered if you could imagine yourself doing some malfunction diagnosis videos. It would be very interesting to see malfunctions in slow motion with commentary, tear down and talk about options. I just ruminated about it when I saw the Wildey Survivor video with the adjustable gas system. Seeing iterations of something like that would be really cool. I hope you go to Finnish Brutality with Karl.
They are excellent pistols, if you own one, be happy.
There had to be a huge "bribe" in steel too, to the Argentine govt, to allow the company to manufacture the guns. (In addition to the steel to make them and the cost in steel.) Because the steel to make them and the steel from the purchase is not very much steel.
It's possible. But much of the (pragmatic) opposition came down to the unwillingness of exporting war equipment which was both needed at home, and was not available abroad. There was no financial incentive behind it either, since grains/meat/etc exports were through the roof at this point in time.
Please do a review of the PSA AKV-9.
So beautiful! And in the correct caliber!
Are you calling me out for getting a 10mm one?
Great vid.
Hey I though you have disabled ads on your videos but now there are some in the middle. it's on your older vids too. just you know.
The old Ballerina Molester model eh?
I love mine! And have for 20 years!
Is Forgotten Weapons no longer on Full30? Just curious. I did like that because it went live before Work so I could have breakfast watching my favorite channel :(
I'm pretty sure that I have at least one folder on my pc named hafdasa containing random stuff
It's very nice gun.
I can tell from having years spent looking at both not nice and nice looking guns.
I have always found it interesting how certain weapon designs seem to find there way into multiple weapon platforms.
On a side note, as of this posting 4 people gave this video a thumbs down. I am curious, is it a dislike of guns, of Ian, of the SOE, of Argentina? The video quality and content was exactly as advertised, so why would you thumbs down it? If its any of the four I mentioned, why watch the video to begin with? Why click? Oh well, guess I'll never know...
Having trolls who downvote every video, even if you post adorable kittens, is a mark of honor for TH-camrs.
chron001 because downvoting is currently the only foolproof way to ensure you won't be bombarded by Forgotten Weapons videos (or any other) in your YT suggestions after watching. If you don't, YT's super-sophisticated algorithm will pester you with recommendation, until the end of time, including invariably the video you've just watched.
@@oryctolaguscuniculus for real fun, use your account to play videos for visiting children.
It's a 1911 with weird stripes and a fat load of text on the slide and a strange grip
Rumor has it that some of the steel for these guns actually came from the scuttled pocket battleship Graf Spee, which was scuttled off the coast and the salvage rights purchased by a British shell company.
Ian already addressed this rumor. And it's false...
@@axelpatrickb.pingol3228 it was written up and documented in the nra magazine the American Rifleman a few decades ago
@@hanktorrance6855 This article? www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2014/1/30/investigation-of-a-legend-the-graf-spee-and-the-ballester-molina/
The article didn't prove the steel used for the pistols came from the armor of the Graf Spee since it lacked certain elements. It didn't prove it didn't come from the Graf Spee either. Either way, the chances are HAFDASA used steel that is NOT from the wreck as the chances of coincidence is too slim to happen...
Ohlourdes Padua I never said it proved it, the article left it as could it be...I was just pointing out that the rumor was documented in the American Rifleman...
@@hanktorrance6855 And that rumor should be put to rest. It's bad enough gun provenance is full of misinterpretations and myths perpetuated by people older and more ignorant than a slice of Christmas ham, misreprensentations and myths Ian, Karl, and Othias are dillegently countering in their videos...
Why an 1911 clon from Argentina? Any especific reason?
Everyone else would have been very , very busy . There was a war on .
SOE was a spy and sabotage agency for the British. They wanted guns not traceable to the UK.
It was available, and not from the usual MoD supply chain.
SOE was the new kid in town and not well received.
I always called it the Mallester Bolina
....so you're saying that it's a James Bond 1911 made from bits of the Graf Spee? Because that's what I heard.
A very handsome looking pistol in beautiful condition.
Refined 1911.
Unicorn gun.
Barter arrangements for the win.
I just hope this video helps to put to rest the old fuddlore tale about the graf spee steel being used for making these guns...
I am a sucker for anything linked to SOE and OSS. This is a very pretty pistol, I wouid very much like to own it.
I read a lot of coments about "Molester ballerina" It´s true!!! jajajaja. I never noticed that because in Spanish is not an evident sentence. But some argentine shooters nicknamed "La Bella Ester" (The Beauty Esther) Which have sense in Spanish language using the first name of the pistol. He leído varios comentarios sobre la "Molester ballerina" (la bailarina acosadora) y es verdad!! jajaajajaj. Nunca me había dado cuenta ya que en Español no es una oración evidente. Pero algunos tiradores argentinos la llaman "La Bella Ester" lo cual si tiene sentido en Español usando el primero nombre de la pistola.
Nice color