Another difference between Shimano and SRAM shifters is XT and XTR can release two gears ie upshift two gears with one push of the thumb. And Shimano will shift to higher gear as soon as it clicks whereas SRAM shifts only after you release the upshift paddle.
@Brice Sechrist older XT shifters can do multi release in either direction. I used to have a 10 speed xt right shifter. It can do that in both directions...
I just got my first SRAM GX Eagle drivetrain and I prefer the Shimano Deore on my other bikes, because Shimano seems to shifts slightly faster. Also like the Shimano push/pull shifters.
For anyone with the chain ticking issue, try reducing the chain gap with the B limit cog. (Get that jockey wheel closer to the cassette, as close as possible without negatively effecting shifting) I always dealt with the chain trying to jump out of the middle of the cassette. One day, without the chain gap measurement tool, I decided to play with the b-limit screw and see how shifting was affected moving the jockey closer and farther away. I found going closer to the cassette cleaned up the shifting perfectly. No idea what the measurement is, but no more ticking. Kind of a back of the napkin kind of solution, I realize you’re supposed to measure it. But a lot of us just like to play with things on the fly. That’s what I found worked for me.
I prefer Sram drivetrains, really enjoying the ease and performance of AXS. However, I like Shimano brakes for the same reasons you mentioned. The heat dissipation has never been an issue for me as I ride mostly XC flow trails where there aren't too many long descents. BTW, I appreciate your insightful videos.
My setup the past few years has been GX Eagle for going and XT for stopping. Seems to work pretty well. If I had to choose gun to head I'm going all XT on my next bike.
Just got a Canyon spectral. Full XT. I've always been an XT brake lover. There so damn good. I'm a heavier rider and they stop me on a dime. This is the first full XT bike I've had and its been smooth so far. Very impressed with the performance.
Got a bike with SRAM GX. Love it but was surprised by the poor performance of the Guide R brakes that came with it. Replaced with Shimano XT brakes and am super happy with my setup.
I can't get SRAM brakes off a new bike fast enough, and the only SRAM drivetrain I've owned was a GX setup which was fine at first but then started making a noise which never went away despite every part being replaced. Installed an SLX drivetrain which performed flawlessly, never looked back.
Just one technical point about brake fluid - DOT brake fluid vs Mineral oil don't really manage heat differently, it's that DOT brake fluid absorbs water and the boiling point slowly rises, where mineral oil will stay separated from water, leaving water to pool in the lowest point (caliper), which will heat up and could vaporize which could cause the brake to lock up or squishy lever feel. As long as there is no moisture in your lines it's a non-issue, regular brake bleed maintenance will solve the problem in either case.
Moisture is more a problem with cars, since the fluid reservoir there is more or less open at the top (pressure equalization) while it's a closed system on a bicycle brake. Of course brake fluid (or mineral oil) in a MTB shouldn't been kept for several years
When I just bought my Tallboy, the shop allowed me to choose my group set. I choose the XT shifters and the Code brakes. It’s been a great combo so far.
The drive train tick would be deal killer for me. I prefer mechanical shifting. I wish that they would offer 12 speed mechanical on road groups. A 12 speed GRX group was spied at unbound and it was mechanical. Hopefully it will make it to production. For multi day adventure rides it’s nice not to have to worry about batteries. We have enough stuff in our lives that has to be recharged! 😂
For the drivetrain I love shimano. I think the consistency you explained on the brakes is also found in their drivetrains. I had the experience that I had to go at least with GX eagle for it to work without issues longterm. On my current bike I have a complete deore drivetrain with only an xt shifter and it seems bulletproof and feels like a full xt to me. With brakes I just stay away from dot fluid and I went with the formula cura.
Fun fact: Shimano bike parts are like 5% of revenue where as fishing is 45% so probably the reason they have not kept up with sram. Nowadays it's Axs sram drivetrains and Shimano brakes with fox suspension. Scott bikes does a nice job of mixing the two in that exact way.
In the process of building a bike, never used SRAM components but was going to give them a try... Yikes on brakes!!! I usually have Shimano mineral oil all over the place when I work on my brakes!!! Going to return the SRAM brakes and invest in Shimano brakes and keep the SRAM drivetrain. Thanks for the video and information!!!
I had experience with two SRAM brake systems being a pain to bleed. For the fact the rear brake was on both, always never easy to get right. I went from code to code R, the install process to replace the brake lines/calipers/levers went fine, it was the stupid bleed. After SEVERAL runs of running fluid to waste, I finally ignored the things you do to rid of air in the syringe and the caliper, I focused only pulling bubbles from the levers, I FINALLY HAVE WORKING REAR BRAKES!! OMG what a pain in the a$$. Shimano looks easy in comparison, but I haven't had to bleed my Shimano brakes on my hardtail. As far as braking performance and preference... eh toss up for me.
If the old fluid (I use Shimano with mineral oil) is already flushed out I typically put it away and from then on I can reuse the fluid during the bleed if something don't work instantly, so I don't have to throw away more or less new mineral oil
Hey Clint, I’m with you on Shimano brakes. Also I have avoided SRAM drivetrains since back in the day when I had the SRAM 11 speed, that when you backpedaled in low gear, even a ratchet stroke, the chain would drop and I would have to stop and fix it, extremely annoying. Anyway I’ve held a grudge against SRAM ever since, until now that I’ve ordered my new e-bike with the SRAM transmission.
Shimano is king in the budget segment (Deore, SLX) brakes and shifting. Sram below GX is no good. GX vs XT and up kind of the same. Brakes... I wouldn't touch anything other than Code RSC, there is no power in anything below that. Shimano on the other hand, even Deore is just fine.
If i could mix the triggers i would keep the double up shift with the pull feature from Shimano and the 5 gear downshift SRAM has. Also, on your Shimano equipped bike, move your triggers so that you're able to pull the trigger with your index without moving your index finger to the side at all. When I'm upshifting my index is on that trigger and when I'm downshifting my index is either covering the back brake or relaxing on the grip while my thumb does the downshifting. It helped my riding so much
Shimano ONLY for me. I love XT shifter can shift 2 gears harder with 1 press. The Sram rear derailleur seems too easy to chain slap. I prefer the Shimano clutch. Brakes, I agree with you Word for word. If I'm buying a bike, and it only comes Sram, I ain't buying it. Period. Awesome video! PS, mechanical rules.
Hi, I use gx groupset for drivetrain (also have ticking noise....), but performance is great. For stopping power shimano deore. As you said - braking performance is same as in expensive xt, but its heavier. For average rider it is perfect setup. 😊
I'm quite budget-conscious about buying parts, and i'm heavy and my grip strength is trash, and shimano always offered what to me seems like the best combo: strong braking from the first touch, which i like, somewhat affordable prices, and very widely available spare parts, which is important if you live in the third world like me. besides that, i alredy got 1 litre of shimano fluid, so i can be confident if i go out for a mtb week to the mountains, brakes will not let me down
Oh wow! I thought I was the only person who had shifting issues on the SRAM cassette. Same thing, 4th or 5th cog would sometimes not catch. I can confirm it is the cassette and not the derailleur since it happens on my mtb (GX derailleur and cassette) and my gravel bike (GRX derailleur and SRAM 11sp cassette) so this is definitely a SRAM thing.
Some perfectionest probably don't like the combine of two systems. As I found XT brakes works better on me while I prefer the shifting of sram, currently using a gold xx1 12 speed.
I think all of your comments are fair at the top end of each manufacturer's product offering. For the lower to mid-level end of the component range Shimano is waaaay better. Compare both performance and durability of Deore 12-speed to SRAM SX or even NX it's not even close. I'd even take Shimano 11-speed Deore without hyperglide + over SRAM SX maybe even NX for its better reliability. Like you said about the brakes, Shimano is way more consistent, with the inexpensive models performing almost on par with the top tier stuff except for weight and the odd feature.
SX and NX are both designed to fail with plastic bushes. You can put a GX metal bush in but your still stuck with the rest of the poor (tourney level) quality
I just got a Shimano Xt setup after 20+ years of SRAM. The shifting seems more definitive but takes more effort to shift. Becomes a little unpleasant when the arms and hands get tired. Haha!
In my experience of using both brands for years, I've always found the Shimano's lower tier products like basic Deore (drivetrain and brakes) to be very good, functional and reliable. Whereas SRAM lower tier stuff (e.g. SX, Level, or back to the old X3/X5 ranges) has always fallen short for me. As you get up to the higher tier stuff XT/GX, they start to get a lot closer for me and then it's really just personal preferences.
SRAM released their DB8 mineral oil breaks about a year ago, so there is that option. Personally, I don't like either one of them when it comes to brakes, and we are very lucky to have many better alternatives at a wide range of prices, from the likes of Magura, TRP, Hayes and so on. On my personal bikes it's SRAM AXS/Transmission and Magura brakes.
Shimano for the win. Just easier to work with and from old to new from 105 and Ultegra mechanical to Di2 shifting is so smooth and consistent plus better brake feel and also no disc brake rub with Shimano.
Don't have a lot of experience with both but my bike came with SRAM GX drivetrain and Shimano brakes and I love the combo. I love how quickly the brakes engage and how I don't have to pull the levers very far to get to full power. I have a new bike (tandem MTB) coming with Magura brakes and I've heard that they are powerful but somewhat squishy and I'm a little worried I'm going to have to change them out soon after it arrives. My SRAM shifting has been rock solid and I don't have a ticking problem as far as I can tell. I also have Di2 on another bike and it is also really good. I'd say the drivetrains are virtually equal but I like Shimano brakes.
I have never had a problem with Shimano brakes or shifters/gears. Im currently running Sram brakes and transmission. Front derailleur is badly worn for the mileage and needs replacing. Brakes I hated at first due to constant rubbing and binding but once I learnt how to properly bleed them, I love them. Nice and progressive feel to them and no issues. Would not make any difference to making a choice when choosing a new bike. Both are good.
SRAM does have mineral oil brakes now, the DB8, and they're pretty good. I have them on my Fezzari Delano. On my other 2 bikes one has Shimano brakes and the other has the traditional SRAM brakes with DOT fluid so I have 3 different types and I like them all but if I had to pick one I would still pick the Shimano mainly for the mineral oil. I don't like handling DOT fluid.
AXS also has the push-to-upshift button on the controller. I have my old cabled XX1 eagle on my enduro bike and I am always reminded how big of a leap forward the AXS is. You don't have to charge the battery (once every 3 months) but you have to change the cables when they clog and stretch. I adjust it more often that I charge the AXS batteries. When clean and adjusted they work similarly, I don't miss my easy gear changes from the AXS that much. But when they get dusty or muddy, the AXS breaks no sweat and continues to work like charm, while the eagle starts to struggle, miss changes, grind more before changing. I don't think that XTR matches XX1 in any way - they are 2.5 generations behind, they even lack carbon cranks. I hate Shimano for slacking so much - this allows SRAM to charge 3200 euro (and even more in dollars I suppose) for just the 'transmission'! They just have no competition there :( I agree that the XC brakes are comparable. I was considering XTR dual pistons - the lightest brakes with more power than the Levels (that sux). But I got G2s on my new bike, and even if heavy they perform much closer to the Codes that I have on my enduro bike than the Guides I had on my stumpjumper before. They are slight overkill for XC but I don't want to spend that much on a couple of grams and lose braking performance (and modulation). btw. I service my brakes and I had no problems touching DOT. Of course I rinse everything soon after it spills but so far no issues with my hands or paint. Mineral oil does not absorb the moisture from the air leaving it in contact with the piston and the lines that may corrode.
Which contact with air moisture should the fluid in a bicycle brake have? In a car there is some contact since the reservoir has an opening for pressure equalization, a bicycle brake however is a closed system with a balloon like reservoir and it's 100% filled with fluid. Contrary to a car the pistons and calipers are not made of steel on a bicycle but Aluminium (caliper) and the piston is Aluminium or ceramic (depends on the model). The brake line is plastic, there is no steel brake line like at a car. If the fluid (dot 4 or mineral oil) is changed regularly and not neglected there will never be a problem with the fluid
You can fix the SRAM gear click by finding the 1 tooth on the cassette that is cause the chain to come slightly unconnected and then bending it outwards slightly with a screw driver. Plenty of you tube videos on it. Seems like a SRAM cassette GX manufacturing issue when pinning the cassette together as I believe this rarely happens on X01 and XX1
Thank you! I'm not crazy! That little in between shifting of that one cog was driving me nuts! LOL So I had never has Sram before, but, all three of the mechanics in my bike shop are Sram fan boys. They suggested I try it on my new build, so I went with a whole GX drivetrain. Well, to their surprise, I hated it! It felt sluggish for some reason, it felt like there was a dude behind me with a rope tied around my waist, holding me back. I didn't like the gears Sram uses on their cassette. I found myself shifting A LOT more, and I just felt like I could never quite find the right gear that I wanted. So, back to Shimano I went! And this time, I went with all XT, and I LOVE this drivetrain! I am a Shimano man through and through! Except for brakes... I went with TRP Slate Evo's and so far, I like them. Thanks for another great video man! I've been enjoying your channel since back when you did reviews on the Giant XTC Advanced. It was one of the only places I found reliable information on that bike, so I bought one, and really enjoyed it for a couple of years.
Why do I want full wireless shifting when I still have brake hoses which have to run from the bars anyway? For me, that Shimano still has the win because they offer wired shifting. I charge 1 battery and everything works vs 2 shall batteries and 2 coin cells.
I also have the SRAM ticking noises. This happens because one of the cassette gear teeth is too close to the higher gears, which prevents the chain from engaging that upper gear. I managed to reduce it by finding the problematic tooth and bending it just enough so that it won’t catch the chain on every rotation. Never buying SRAM again.
I prefer the Shimano for a few reasons based on my experiences with both. Reliability and simpler design. Why do you need a narrow-wide jockey wheel on an XX1 derailleur? After a couple of aggressive bumps and the chain skips to the wrong tooth segment, what a racket (then stop, adjust the chain to sync with the proper tooth and try to ride the smoothest line only). Shifts are slightly quicker on SRAM, however any seasoned rider is looking ahead (to survey the trail conditions) and selects the proper gear well before a panic situation (that nano second saved isn't much of a factor). Now, on shifting to a larger cassette cog under load, Shimano is far and away superior across all levels. Lastly, if you are a home mechanic, Shimano is far easier to work on with mostly standard tools and common sizes. Getting out there to ride is the most important thing, which brand is splitting hairs, but I've had much less grief with one over the other.
Another difference is that the SRAM cassettes are one piece, whereas on Shimano, the first couple of sprockets are separate and you can replace them individually, which an be quite a bit cheaper for people that tend to use mainly the highest gears. Spacing of the gears is also different.
To me, Shimano 12sp shifts like butter. I feel the advantage of sram 12sp is no clutch maintenance. I was surprised when shimano didn’t address this when they released 12sp. We had a 12sp XTR fail in warranty but they just said, “too bad, so sad”. I replaced with an X0 rear derailleur and shifter and now no clutch maintenance. I happily live with the trade offs of mineral oil (Shimano) brakes. Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts.
I've always had the luck of getting Shimano brakes. I don't want to mess with DOT. I run MTX red label pads. They have better modulation without giving up power. The heat resistance (on XT ice-tech rotors) seems as good or better than finned pads and they don't rattle. They don't squawk either. Shimano organics are quiet but I'd have to deglaze them multiple times even in MN's short season. Going on my second season with the MTX and they rarely make a sound with no intervention.
I am having Shimano brakes and drivetrain for years. I noticed that the brakes can have “turkey” sound effect sometimes. So I put Galfer rotors and pads and no surkey noise
I have Sram GX AXS groupset on my Trek rail 9.8 and Shimano XT groupset on my Trek Slash 9.8. Its not even close Shimano wrecks. The hyperglide + system makes the shifting so much smoother and better. Sram feels very rough, snappy and loud. Sure its not bad, like its not like you are buying crap. Its still decent, but it can not even be mentioned in the same league as Shimano XT. I have not tried T type variants yet, heard they are smoother. But for now Shimano XT all day for me.
Many thanks Clint for your inputs, well informative and entertaining from my end, BTW I use Shimano XT 12s on my drivetrain and brakes SRAM RSC G2 super happy with it..
Like you, Clint, I don't like working with DOT fluid; and so my disc-brake bikes have always been Shimano. I hear that that SRAM can be a real pain with regard to disc rub. Having said, I had terrible issues with the Dura Ace black-fin rotors, which went out of true every single ride. Now I use Hope floating rotors, which rarely go out of true. After hard descents they make a pinging noise as they cool. My CX bike has a threaded BB. The SRAM BB version, I see from countless reviews, has really poor durability. This is what made me opt for Shimano. I just wish Shimano would make it easier to replace the rear wheel.
I know some people take a file and take some material off the teeth of their SRAM cassette to get rid of the ticking. Usually it's only a couple of teeth on the problem cog.
Does SRAM have the ability to do multiple downshifts into harder gears with one push like Shimano does, where you can push the lever a little extra hard and get second gear out of it? I know my older SRAM didn't. Another interesting difference is that Shimano offers two different cassette gear ranges. Although I don't think I know anyone who uses the second option.
yes sram has that too. on some bikes, especially ebikes, they like to use the one shift levers to "preserve" the drivetrain more..... so less strain and tension on the chain.
@@tmhudg To me, down shift is shifting down in the back to smaller cogs, so "harder" gears. Shimano lets you sort of "double click" and drop a couple gears at a time. Upshifting into easier gears, both systems let you do that a bunch at a time.
@@doachs Fair enough (and not to belabor the point but) although most dictionaries define downshifting as shifting (an automobile) into a lower gear. Going "down" from 2nd gear to 1st gear is a downshift. It doesn't mean going down in the size of the cog. For example, with a front derailleur, going "down" to the smaller chainring makes the gear easier not harder. With my GX, I guess I can double click to quickly shift to two harder gears so maybe it's the same as Shimano. I can't do a long throw though like I can when I shift to easier gears like you say.
Awesome vid Clint thank you!!! I run a 12 speed sramano drive train and love it...I have an xt drive train with the gx eagle axs derailleur,it shifts fast and crisp,easy wheel reinstall,have it set up like xt xtr multishift...Only issue that I had was the b screw set up,the supplied b set up tool doesn't fit shamano cassettes so I found a plastic tab on the tool that prevents it from fitting the cassette properly so I just ground it off on my bench grinder and presto it fits awesome only bummer is you still need 2 people to set it up because sram wants it set up in sag position,its impossible to do while sitting on the bike...Cheers!!!
There’s a few vids online that show how to fix that GX clicking sound. Basically find the tooth that the chain is catching on and then bend the tooth with some needle nose pliers
Shimano shifts and brakes better and doesn’t require as much adjustment even at their deore level it’s still good. Had to adjust the derailleur on every sram I’ve ever had more that with any shimano.
FYI SRAM has their DB8 brakes that are mineral oil. Also they own Tektro which also uses mineral oil if my memory serves me right. I like both brands as far as shifting, but like you I prefer Shimano's use of mineral oil. I had my rear brake lever leak and squirt fluid onto my frame w/o any damage to the finish. A friend's SRAM caliper had a leak develope around one of the pistons and the paint on his frame started to peel.
DOT fluid doesn't dissapate heat better, it's viscosity doesn't change much due to heat. However it's probably overkill for a bike I would imagine. Half the stuff on bikes these days just seem like gimicks that are less robust, harder to repair and often incompatible.
For me, I go Sram drivetrain, Magura braking- you get the modulation, the mineral oil, and the innovation. That said, Sram does make a mineral oil brake (the low tier DB8) mainly for OEM markets, but Yeah, I didn't like working with DOT either.
Back in the late 90s I had all Shimano XTR or XT. Now I am a big fan of SRAM, even went to AXS. However, for brakes I stick with Shimano XTR or XT because that's what I am used to. I only ride XC so I don't have the heating problems that would require me to run DOT fluid. If I did down hill I would probably go with SRAM.
I never noticed the sram tick noise on either of the 2 NX 12 speed drivetrains I've had... maybe it only applies to GX and above? For brakes i really like Magura... mineral oil, good modulation, and loads of power.
I use shimano for my drive train and sram code for my breaks and i love them both for their propective objective. Sram code for me the modulation and its fit for enduro dh,shimano for drivetrain for the shifting performance
one thing that ruins sram for me is that while yes it seems they're moving towards more serviceable drivetrains, it fucking blows my mind as to how they thought having an unserviceable clutch was a good idea. i have gone through two GX axs clutches in the last year or so. they are great when they're new but after thousands of miles of riding, i cant make it any tighter and its so dumb. shimano's serviceability really sells it for me. I know srams brand new t-type drivetrain is serviceable but that shit costs an arm and a leg so i don't plan on buying that any time soon and its the only serviceable derailleur sram has in production rn
Based on my limited experience and now your awesome video here I have some conclusions. SRAM is for the younger, faster downhill rider who lives near a bike shop. Shimano is for people who maintain their own bike, don’t have extended fast downhill trails or who may take the trail less than suicidal speed. I didn’t realize the bite of the shimano brakes until you pointed it out. My current bike has SRAM with the mineral oil and I thought that they were lighter than my shimanos on my previous bike. The shop I bought it from said that they are more powerful than the shimanos but I didn’t see it. Now I realize that the comparison I was thinking about was the initial bite you described. I do prefer there more consistent performance for feathering that the SRAM provides but I am put off that you need a special tool just to modify it. I don’t live near a bike shop, don’t have the confidence to maintain my own bike so I like durability and reliability. The shimano trivetrain has been bulletproof for me so I will stick with that. However I am leaning toward staying with SRAM on the brakes. Do they have a mineral oil version with a tool-less option?
As a bike shop owner and mechanic and someone thats been riding for 20+ years, i would just go ahead, generalize it and give shimano the clear win on this one. Without going too deep into the details: they work better and more consistent, the are way easier to maintain and repair, the performance difference across the different groups are very minimal if even existent, and depending on where you are they are sometimes even cheaper. As a rider, my biggest issue with sram is the inconsistency with the gears and the brakes. As a bike shop owner my biggest issue with sram is just how difficult they make everything to work on. Adjusting the mech, swapping kassettes or chainrings, bleeding brakes...everything takes at least twice as long and require special tools. Extremly annoying. Ive even had XD kassettes braking theire tool fittment inside itself making it impossible to remove the kassette from the hub. Needless to say that wheel went to trash just because of some stupid sram xd kassette....and yes, sram already has some mineral oil brakes on the market. Had a customer bike with those brakes a couple of weeks ago at the shop. I also didnt know they existed tbh...
Informative to hear your perspective both as a rider and a LBS mechanic. Question. Do you still favor Shimano on road bikes too and for the same or different reasons?
@@lawor8 to be fair, my experience with sram road groupsets is veeery limited, so i cant really comment in that. Sram on road bikes are rare here in europe. If a bike doest have shimano, then it has campangolo instead of sram
Some of these differences carry over to lower grade stuff as well. I had an 11sp sram apex trigger shifter that was thumb push only up and down. Shimano deore 11 sp has the index pull for up shifting, which is preferable for me. I also like the shimano brakes better, mostly due to better rotor clearance, and I'm talking the lower end MT 200 brakes.
Had the low end on my bikes for years, before deciding to upgrade. When it comes to that side of things, Deore 12 is way better than NX. it's not just that middle cog, but that thing is annoying enough on its own. So now fortunate to have XT , and didn't bother to check GX. If the ground floor is crooked, I'm not renting upstairs .
I found I had to be waaaaay more picky about derailleur hanger alignment with SRAM. I literally just found my XT derailleur loose. The mounting bolt was a couple turns out. Still shifted great. I like both, like you said. But it’s probably related to the complaint you have with sram.
Im considering this too. I got my ebike and want to go for rd-8100-gs, sl-8100, cs-7100 10-45t and 9100 chain. Also i need new freehub body and front raceface n/w shimano 34t chainring. Total cost is about 350e.
After having two Shimano derailleurs fail thanks to the over engineered clutch mechanism I prefer the simple and effective sprung pin of the SRAM derailleur. The problems with the Shimao clutch is that it is extremely delicate for such a harsh environment and is prone to water and grit ingress.
Sram got to 12 speed and killed 3x and 2x because they never could make a front derailleur that worked well. Their brakes use DOT fluid which attracts water from the air for no reason at all. Mineral oil is superior and not as bad for the enviroment. I'll never use sram for those reasons.
Using the best of both worlds! Shimano Brakes (DOT fluid sucks for the DIY mechanic like me). 12-speed Shamono XT cassette and chain with GX Eagle AXS electronic derailleur. The ShaRAMo Drive train works flawlessly
I run Eagle with an XX1 shifter on the HT. The shifts are so easy and crisp on the thumb. On the XC fully I run Shimano 12s with an XTR derailleur and an XT shifter. The shifts down are much harder on the thumb to the point where I almost feel like the thumb becoming sprained :) have you experienced this and found a solution? BTW the XTR derailleur has the correct torque. The clutch torque can be set with the clutch screw through the opening covered with a rubber plug.
Just use Shifter/Der from SRAM and cassette from Shimano - that's all. It works great and you can use AXS sram with Shimano cassettes. I have no issues with shimano shifters personally, but sram ones are easier to click.
The shimano clutch tension is adjustable and needs to be checked periodically, sram is not adjustable. I clean and check my chain weekly but I have had a problem with shimano when putting on a new chain. I replace the chain at .5 wear but the new chain will catch on the 10 tooth cog and cause the chain to skip. It seems the cog wears out too fast with my style of riding, I am thinking of trying to up my chain ring size to a 34t from a 32t so that I use the 10 tooth a lot less.
Shimano shifters are always trigger to release, it was, I think over a decade ago, where they started doing push to release as well. Always preferred shimano shifters, I like using the triggers shifters, not SRAM's push push as you would say.
Clint, I have been using the SRAM AXS Eagle XX1 drivetrain components for the last three years and I have always had one cog on the cassette (second largest cog) that stubbornly does not want to function as well as the other 11. I have tried micro adjusting dozens of times, but it's always the same cog that doesn't work quite as well
I have that same problem with SRAM cassettes. They all make noise in - I believe it's the 8th gear. Always sounds like it's trying to jump to 7th. Both my SRAM bikes do it. I also can't tune it out. Also, I am not a fan of SRAM brakes - at all... Shimano for the win here. They stop better and the fluid isn't toxic or harmful and the fluid doesn't suck moisture from the air like a vacuum.
I really feel the biggest difference in these two drivetrains are the shifting and the ability to shift under load. With the shimano xt and xtr you can shift under load. You can now with the new SRAM transmission
My SRAM brakes are mineral oil, they’re the DB8 and came on my new bike, I do prefer the Shimano brakes on my hard tail though they seem to modulate better.
Another difference between Shimano and SRAM shifters is XT and XTR can release two gears ie upshift two gears with one push of the thumb. And Shimano will shift to higher gear as soon as it clicks whereas SRAM shifts only after you release the upshift paddle.
Double up shift is only on the thumb/push direction. Trigger is only one.
And thus why Shimano rules.
@Brice Sechrist older XT shifters can do multi release in either direction.
I used to have a 10 speed xt right shifter. It can do that in both directions...
I just got my first SRAM GX Eagle drivetrain and I prefer the Shimano Deore on my other bikes, because Shimano seems to shifts slightly faster. Also like the Shimano push/pull shifters.
@@ejhc11 The Sram shifters have weird ergonomics/shaped kinda funky.
For anyone with the chain ticking issue, try reducing the chain gap with the B limit cog. (Get that jockey wheel closer to the cassette, as close as possible without negatively effecting shifting) I always dealt with the chain trying to jump out of the middle of the cassette.
One day, without the chain gap measurement tool, I decided to play with the b-limit screw and see how shifting was affected moving the jockey closer and farther away. I found going closer to the cassette cleaned up the shifting perfectly. No idea what the measurement is, but no more ticking.
Kind of a back of the napkin kind of solution, I realize you’re supposed to measure it. But a lot of us just like to play with things on the fly. That’s what I found worked for me.
Agree. I had the same problem and I went 4mm (farther) beyond what was recommended and the ticking and skipping went away.
I prefer Sram drivetrains, really enjoying the ease and performance of AXS. However, I like Shimano brakes for the same reasons you mentioned. The heat dissipation has never been an issue for me as I ride mostly XC flow trails where there aren't too many long descents. BTW, I appreciate your insightful videos.
My setup the past few years has been GX Eagle for going and XT for stopping. Seems to work pretty well. If I had to choose gun to head I'm going all XT on my next bike.
Just got a Canyon spectral. Full XT. I've always been an XT brake lover. There so damn good. I'm a heavier rider and they stop me on a dime. This is the first full XT bike I've had and its been smooth so far. Very impressed with the performance.
XT is my favorite bang for your buck.
My GX EAGLE rear derailleur/cassette tick in 6th gear as well. Glad to hear it's not just me I've tried everything to tune it out.
Got a bike with SRAM GX. Love it but was surprised by the poor performance of the Guide R brakes that came with it. Replaced with Shimano XT brakes and am super happy with my setup.
Yeah, Guide R's kinda suck. Currently looking at a set of Maguras for an upgrade
I can't get SRAM brakes off a new bike fast enough, and the only SRAM drivetrain I've owned was a GX setup which was fine at first but then started making a noise which never went away despite every part being replaced.
Installed an SLX drivetrain which performed flawlessly, never looked back.
Just one technical point about brake fluid - DOT brake fluid vs Mineral oil don't really manage heat differently, it's that DOT brake fluid absorbs water and the boiling point slowly rises, where mineral oil will stay separated from water, leaving water to pool in the lowest point (caliper), which will heat up and could vaporize which could cause the brake to lock up or squishy lever feel. As long as there is no moisture in your lines it's a non-issue, regular brake bleed maintenance will solve the problem in either case.
The answer to the water issue is to bleed the systems regularly. Do your bleeding and no problems. HappyDays
Moisture is more a problem with cars, since the fluid reservoir there is more or less open at the top (pressure equalization) while it's a closed system on a bicycle brake. Of course brake fluid (or mineral oil) in a MTB shouldn't been kept for several years
Ah, the old vapor-lock. Now I understand.
I will never go back to DOT.
When I just bought my Tallboy, the shop allowed me to choose my group set. I choose the XT shifters and the Code brakes. It’s been a great combo so far.
The drive train tick would be deal killer for me. I prefer mechanical shifting. I wish that they would offer 12 speed mechanical on road groups. A 12 speed GRX group was spied at unbound and it was mechanical. Hopefully it will make it to production. For multi day adventure rides it’s nice not to have to worry about batteries. We have enough stuff in our lives that has to be recharged! 😂
For the drivetrain I love shimano. I think the consistency you explained on the brakes is also found in their drivetrains. I had the experience that I had to go at least with GX eagle for it to work without issues longterm. On my current bike I have a complete deore drivetrain with only an xt shifter and it seems bulletproof and feels like a full xt to me. With brakes I just stay away from dot fluid and I went with the formula cura.
Not to mention SRAM comes at a premium when compared to similar Shimano components. I guess budget matters more to some.✌️
One of my bikes is SRAM and the other Shimano. I've never experienced that ticking thing on my SRAM GX, It's flawless. My SLX is flawless too.
Fun fact: Shimano bike parts are like 5% of revenue where as fishing is 45% so probably the reason they have not kept up with sram. Nowadays it's Axs sram drivetrains and Shimano brakes with fox suspension. Scott bikes does a nice job of mixing the two in that exact way.
In the process of building a bike, never used SRAM components but was going to give them a try... Yikes on brakes!!! I usually have Shimano mineral oil all over the place when I work on my brakes!!! Going to return the SRAM brakes and invest in Shimano brakes and keep the SRAM drivetrain. Thanks for the video and information!!!
I had experience with two SRAM brake systems being a pain to bleed. For the fact the rear brake was on both, always never easy to get right. I went from code to code R, the install process to replace the brake lines/calipers/levers went fine, it was the stupid bleed. After SEVERAL runs of running fluid to waste, I finally ignored the things you do to rid of air in the syringe and the caliper, I focused only pulling bubbles from the levers, I FINALLY HAVE WORKING REAR BRAKES!! OMG what a pain in the a$$. Shimano looks easy in comparison, but I haven't had to bleed my Shimano brakes on my hardtail. As far as braking performance and preference... eh toss up for me.
If the old fluid (I use Shimano with mineral oil) is already flushed out I typically put it away and from then on I can reuse the fluid during the bleed if something don't work instantly, so I don't have to throw away more or less new mineral oil
Hey Clint, I’m with you on Shimano brakes. Also I have avoided SRAM drivetrains since back in the day when I had the SRAM 11 speed, that when you backpedaled in low gear, even a ratchet stroke, the chain would drop and I would have to stop and fix it, extremely annoying. Anyway I’ve held a grudge against SRAM ever since, until now that I’ve ordered my new e-bike with the SRAM transmission.
So true about the one ticking gear and Sram. Have had that on 3-4 bikes. It doesn't happen with ASX though.
I don't notice it on my SRAM GX.
Shimano is king in the budget segment (Deore, SLX) brakes and shifting. Sram below GX is no good. GX vs XT and up kind of the same. Brakes... I wouldn't touch anything other than Code RSC, there is no power in anything below that. Shimano on the other hand, even Deore is just fine.
If i could mix the triggers i would keep the double up shift with the pull feature from Shimano and the 5 gear downshift SRAM has. Also, on your Shimano equipped bike, move your triggers so that you're able to pull the trigger with your index without moving your index finger to the side at all. When I'm upshifting my index is on that trigger and when I'm downshifting my index is either covering the back brake or relaxing on the grip while my thumb does the downshifting. It helped my riding so much
Shimano ONLY for me. I love XT shifter can shift 2 gears harder with 1 press. The Sram rear derailleur seems too easy to chain slap. I prefer the Shimano clutch. Brakes, I agree with you Word for word. If I'm buying a bike, and it only comes Sram, I ain't buying it. Period. Awesome video! PS, mechanical rules.
You should look at the boiling point of DOT vs Mineral Oil...they are similar, but when DOT gets any moisture the boiling point plummet...
Hi, I use gx groupset for drivetrain (also have ticking noise....), but performance is great. For stopping power shimano deore. As you said - braking performance is same as in expensive xt, but its heavier. For average rider it is perfect setup. 😊
I'm quite budget-conscious about buying parts, and i'm heavy and my grip strength is trash, and shimano always offered what to me seems like the best combo: strong braking from the first touch, which i like, somewhat affordable prices, and very widely available spare parts, which is important if you live in the third world like me. besides that, i alredy got 1 litre of shimano fluid, so i can be confident if i go out for a mtb week to the mountains, brakes will not let me down
I am running Shimano, and honestly it is because I have ALWAYS used it. I have never had a bike with SRAM.
I’m all in in XT. However TRP evo has peaked my interest bigly
Oh wow! I thought I was the only person who had shifting issues on the SRAM cassette. Same thing, 4th or 5th cog would sometimes not catch. I can confirm it is the cassette and not the derailleur since it happens on my mtb (GX derailleur and cassette) and my gravel bike (GRX derailleur and SRAM 11sp cassette) so this is definitely a SRAM thing.
I managed to reduce the noise by winding in the B screw half a turn, it hasn't gone away completely but has improved. (GX 12 speed 10-50)
Some perfectionest probably don't like the combine of two systems. As I found XT brakes works better on me while I prefer the shifting of sram, currently using a gold xx1 12 speed.
I think all of your comments are fair at the top end of each manufacturer's product offering. For the lower to mid-level end of the component range Shimano is waaaay better. Compare both performance and durability of Deore 12-speed to SRAM SX or even NX it's not even close. I'd even take Shimano 11-speed Deore without hyperglide + over SRAM SX maybe even NX for its better reliability. Like you said about the brakes, Shimano is way more consistent, with the inexpensive models performing almost on par with the top tier stuff except for weight and the odd feature.
SX and NX are both designed to fail with plastic bushes. You can put a GX metal bush in but your still stuck with the rest of the poor (tourney level) quality
I just got a Shimano Xt setup after 20+ years of SRAM. The shifting seems more definitive but takes more effort to shift. Becomes a little unpleasant when the arms and hands get tired. Haha!
In my experience of using both brands for years, I've always found the Shimano's lower tier products like basic Deore (drivetrain and brakes) to be very good, functional and reliable. Whereas SRAM lower tier stuff (e.g. SX, Level, or back to the old X3/X5 ranges) has always fallen short for me. As you get up to the higher tier stuff XT/GX, they start to get a lot closer for me and then it's really just personal preferences.
I also find, the shimano is little more smoother in it's shifting.
SRAM released their DB8 mineral oil breaks about a year ago, so there is that option. Personally, I don't like either one of them when it comes to brakes, and we are very lucky to have many better alternatives at a wide range of prices, from the likes of Magura, TRP, Hayes and so on. On my personal bikes it's SRAM AXS/Transmission and Magura brakes.
Shimano for the win. Just easier to work with and from old to new from 105 and Ultegra mechanical to Di2 shifting is so smooth and consistent plus better brake feel and also no disc brake rub with Shimano.
i am surprised that no one has mentioned about shimano shifting better and more smoothly UNDER LOAD
I love my Shimano rapid rise rear derailleur. Shifting is buttery smooth & precise as it was when new 18 years ago. Too bad they no longer make them.
Don't have a lot of experience with both but my bike came with SRAM GX drivetrain and Shimano brakes and I love the combo. I love how quickly the brakes engage and how I don't have to pull the levers very far to get to full power. I have a new bike (tandem MTB) coming with Magura brakes and I've heard that they are powerful but somewhat squishy and I'm a little worried I'm going to have to change them out soon after it arrives.
My SRAM shifting has been rock solid and I don't have a ticking problem as far as I can tell. I also have Di2 on another bike and it is also really good. I'd say the drivetrains are virtually equal but I like Shimano brakes.
I have never had a problem with Shimano brakes or shifters/gears. Im currently running Sram brakes and transmission. Front derailleur is badly worn for the mileage and needs replacing. Brakes I hated at first due to constant rubbing and binding but once I learnt how to properly bleed them, I love them. Nice and progressive feel to them and no issues. Would not make any difference to making a choice when choosing a new bike. Both are good.
Could you please say, what exactly SRAM brakes do you have?
SRAM does have mineral oil brakes now, the DB8, and they're pretty good. I have them on my Fezzari Delano. On my other 2 bikes one has Shimano brakes and the other has the traditional SRAM brakes with DOT fluid so I have 3 different types and I like them all but if I had to pick one I would still pick the Shimano mainly for the mineral oil. I don't like handling DOT fluid.
AXS also has the push-to-upshift button on the controller. I have my old cabled XX1 eagle on my enduro bike and I am always reminded how big of a leap forward the AXS is. You don't have to charge the battery (once every 3 months) but you have to change the cables when they clog and stretch. I adjust it more often that I charge the AXS batteries. When clean and adjusted they work similarly, I don't miss my easy gear changes from the AXS that much. But when they get dusty or muddy, the AXS breaks no sweat and continues to work like charm, while the eagle starts to struggle, miss changes, grind more before changing.
I don't think that XTR matches XX1 in any way - they are 2.5 generations behind, they even lack carbon cranks. I hate Shimano for slacking so much - this allows SRAM to charge 3200 euro (and even more in dollars I suppose) for just the 'transmission'! They just have no competition there :(
I agree that the XC brakes are comparable. I was considering XTR dual pistons - the lightest brakes with more power than the Levels (that sux). But I got G2s on my new bike, and even if heavy they perform much closer to the Codes that I have on my enduro bike than the Guides I had on my stumpjumper before. They are slight overkill for XC but I don't want to spend that much on a couple of grams and lose braking performance (and modulation).
btw. I service my brakes and I had no problems touching DOT. Of course I rinse everything soon after it spills but so far no issues with my hands or paint. Mineral oil does not absorb the moisture from the air leaving it in contact with the piston and the lines that may corrode.
Which contact with air moisture should the fluid in a bicycle brake have? In a car there is some contact since the reservoir has an opening for pressure equalization, a bicycle brake however is a closed system with a balloon like reservoir and it's 100% filled with fluid. Contrary to a car the pistons and calipers are not made of steel on a bicycle but Aluminium (caliper) and the piston is Aluminium or ceramic (depends on the model). The brake line is plastic, there is no steel brake line like at a car.
If the fluid (dot 4 or mineral oil) is changed regularly and not neglected there will never be a problem with the fluid
You can fix the SRAM gear click by finding the 1 tooth on the cassette that is cause the chain to come slightly unconnected and then bending it outwards slightly with a screw driver. Plenty of you tube videos on it. Seems like a SRAM cassette GX manufacturing issue when pinning the cassette together as I believe this rarely happens on X01 and XX1
Bending it w a screw driver? Really works?
Having never owned a bike with SRAM, this video was extremely helpful.
Thank you! I'm not crazy! That little in between shifting of that one cog was driving me nuts! LOL
So I had never has Sram before, but, all three of the mechanics in my bike shop are Sram fan boys. They suggested I try it on my new build, so I went with a whole GX drivetrain. Well, to their surprise, I hated it! It felt sluggish for some reason, it felt like there was a dude behind me with a rope tied around my waist, holding me back. I didn't like the gears Sram uses on their cassette. I found myself shifting A LOT more, and I just felt like I could never quite find the right gear that I wanted. So, back to Shimano I went! And this time, I went with all XT, and I LOVE this drivetrain! I am a Shimano man through and through! Except for brakes... I went with TRP Slate Evo's and so far, I like them.
Thanks for another great video man! I've been enjoying your channel since back when you did reviews on the Giant XTC Advanced. It was one of the only places I found reliable information on that bike, so I bought one, and really enjoyed it for a couple of years.
Exactly! I thought it was only my bike ticking. It IS annoying but I still love it. I think it doesn't detune as easily or as fast as Shimano.
Why do I want full wireless shifting when I still have brake hoses which have to run from the bars anyway? For me, that Shimano still has the win because they offer wired shifting. I charge 1 battery and everything works vs 2 shall batteries and 2 coin cells.
I also have the SRAM ticking noises. This happens because one of the cassette gear teeth is too close to the higher gears, which prevents the chain from engaging that upper gear. I managed to reduce it by finding the problematic tooth and bending it just enough so that it won’t catch the chain on every rotation.
Never buying SRAM again.
I prefer the Shimano for a few reasons based on my experiences with both. Reliability and simpler design. Why do you need a narrow-wide jockey wheel on an XX1 derailleur? After a couple of aggressive bumps and the chain skips to the wrong tooth segment, what a racket (then stop, adjust the chain to sync with the proper tooth and try to ride the smoothest line only). Shifts are slightly quicker on SRAM, however any seasoned rider is looking ahead (to survey the trail conditions) and selects the proper gear well before a panic situation (that nano second saved isn't much of a factor). Now, on shifting to a larger cassette cog under load, Shimano is far and away superior across all levels. Lastly, if you are a home mechanic, Shimano is far easier to work on with mostly standard tools and common sizes. Getting out there to ride is the most important thing, which brand is splitting hairs, but I've had much less grief with one over the other.
Another difference is that the SRAM cassettes are one piece, whereas on Shimano, the first couple of sprockets are separate and you can replace them individually, which an be quite a bit cheaper for people that tend to use mainly the highest gears. Spacing of the gears is also different.
Another problem with DOT fluid is its hydroscopic.
To me, Shimano 12sp shifts like butter. I feel the advantage of sram 12sp is no clutch maintenance. I was surprised when shimano didn’t address this when they released 12sp. We had a 12sp XTR fail in warranty but they just said, “too bad, so sad”. I replaced with an X0 rear derailleur and shifter and now no clutch maintenance. I happily live with the trade offs of mineral oil (Shimano) brakes. Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts.
I've always had the luck of getting Shimano brakes. I don't want to mess with DOT. I run MTX red label pads. They have better modulation without giving up power. The heat resistance (on XT ice-tech rotors) seems as good or better than finned pads and they don't rattle. They don't squawk either. Shimano organics are quiet but I'd have to deglaze them multiple times even in MN's short season. Going on my second season with the MTX and they rarely make a sound with no intervention.
I am having Shimano brakes and drivetrain for years. I noticed that the brakes can have “turkey” sound effect sometimes. So I put Galfer rotors and pads and no surkey noise
I have Sram GX AXS groupset on my Trek rail 9.8 and Shimano XT groupset on my Trek Slash 9.8. Its not even close Shimano wrecks. The hyperglide + system makes the shifting so much smoother and better. Sram feels very rough, snappy and loud. Sure its not bad, like its not like you are buying crap. Its still decent, but it can not even be mentioned in the same league as Shimano XT. I have not tried T type variants yet, heard they are smoother. But for now Shimano XT all day for me.
Many thanks Clint for your inputs, well informative and entertaining from my end, BTW I use Shimano XT 12s on my drivetrain and brakes SRAM RSC G2 super happy with it..
Like you, Clint, I don't like working with DOT fluid; and so my disc-brake bikes have always been Shimano. I hear that that SRAM can be a real pain with regard to disc rub. Having said, I had terrible issues with the Dura Ace black-fin rotors, which went out of true every single ride. Now I use Hope floating rotors, which rarely go out of true. After hard descents they make a pinging noise as they cool.
My CX bike has a threaded BB. The SRAM BB version, I see from countless reviews, has really poor durability. This is what made me opt for Shimano. I just wish Shimano would make it easier to replace the rear wheel.
I know some people take a file and take some material off the teeth of their SRAM cassette to get rid of the ticking. Usually it's only a couple of teeth on the problem cog.
The ticking noise drives me crazy!
Does SRAM have the ability to do multiple downshifts into harder gears with one push like Shimano does, where you can push the lever a little extra hard and get second gear out of it? I know my older SRAM didn't. Another interesting difference is that Shimano offers two different cassette gear ranges. Although I don't think I know anyone who uses the second option.
I think "downshift" usually means lower (easier) gears right? Anyway, my SRAM GX shifter can do multiple shifts to easier gears but not harder gears.
yes sram has that too. on some bikes, especially ebikes, they like to use the one shift levers to "preserve" the drivetrain more..... so less strain and tension on the chain.
@@tmhudg To me, down shift is shifting down in the back to smaller cogs, so "harder" gears. Shimano lets you sort of "double click" and drop a couple gears at a time. Upshifting into easier gears, both systems let you do that a bunch at a time.
@@doachs Fair enough (and not to belabor the point but) although most dictionaries define downshifting as shifting (an automobile) into a lower gear. Going "down" from 2nd gear to 1st gear is a downshift. It doesn't mean going down in the size of the cog. For example, with a front derailleur, going "down" to the smaller chainring makes the gear easier not harder.
With my GX, I guess I can double click to quickly shift to two harder gears so maybe it's the same as Shimano. I can't do a long throw though like I can when I shift to easier gears like you say.
Awesome vid Clint thank you!!! I run a 12 speed sramano drive train and love it...I have an xt drive train with the gx eagle axs derailleur,it shifts fast and crisp,easy wheel reinstall,have it set up like xt xtr multishift...Only issue that I had was the b screw set up,the supplied b set up tool doesn't fit shamano cassettes so I found a plastic tab on the tool that prevents it from fitting the cassette properly so I just ground it off on my bench grinder and presto it fits awesome only bummer is you still need 2 people to set it up because sram wants it set up in sag position,its impossible to do while sitting on the bike...Cheers!!!
Lol I ride Advent X and Tektro brakes, what am I doing here 😂
There’s a few vids online that show how to fix that GX clicking sound. Basically find the tooth that the chain is catching on and then bend the tooth with some needle nose pliers
Shimano shifts and brakes better and doesn’t require as much adjustment even at their deore level it’s still good. Had to adjust the derailleur on every sram I’ve ever had more that with any shimano.
FYI SRAM has their DB8 brakes that are mineral oil. Also they own Tektro which also uses mineral oil if my memory serves me right.
I like both brands as far as shifting, but like you I prefer Shimano's use of mineral oil. I had my rear brake lever leak and squirt fluid onto my frame w/o any damage to the finish. A friend's SRAM caliper had a leak develope around one of the pistons and the paint on his frame started to peel.
DOT fluid doesn't dissapate heat better, it's viscosity doesn't change much due to heat. However it's probably overkill for a bike I would imagine.
Half the stuff on bikes these days just seem like gimicks that are less robust, harder to repair and often incompatible.
Thanks for this overview video! I have not used an MTB groupset since Deore DX. Love that system...so robust.
For me, I go Sram drivetrain, Magura braking- you get the modulation, the mineral oil, and the innovation. That said, Sram does make a mineral oil brake (the low tier DB8) mainly for OEM markets, but Yeah, I didn't like working with DOT either.
Great information as always - love the channel. Thank you!
Back in the late 90s I had all Shimano XTR or XT. Now I am a big fan of SRAM, even went to AXS. However, for brakes I stick with Shimano XTR or XT because that's what I am used to. I only ride XC so I don't have the heating problems that would require me to run DOT fluid. If I did down hill I would probably go with SRAM.
XT is hands down my favorite.
I never noticed the sram tick noise on either of the 2 NX 12 speed drivetrains I've had... maybe it only applies to GX and above? For brakes i really like Magura... mineral oil, good modulation, and loads of power.
I use shimano for my drive train and sram code for my breaks and i love them both for their propective objective. Sram code for me the modulation and its fit for enduro dh,shimano for drivetrain for the shifting performance
one thing that ruins sram for me is that while yes it seems they're moving towards more serviceable drivetrains, it fucking blows my mind as to how they thought having an unserviceable clutch was a good idea. i have gone through two GX axs clutches in the last year or so. they are great when they're new but after thousands of miles of riding, i cant make it any tighter and its so dumb. shimano's serviceability really sells it for me. I know srams brand new t-type drivetrain is serviceable but that shit costs an arm and a leg so i don't plan on buying that any time soon and its the only serviceable derailleur sram has in production rn
Based on my limited experience and now your awesome video here I have some conclusions. SRAM is for the younger, faster downhill rider who lives near a bike shop. Shimano is for people who maintain their own bike, don’t have extended fast downhill trails or who may take the trail less than suicidal speed.
I didn’t realize the bite of the shimano brakes until you pointed it out. My current bike has SRAM with the mineral oil and I thought that they were lighter than my shimanos on my previous bike. The shop I bought it from said that they are more powerful than the shimanos but I didn’t see it. Now I realize that the comparison I was thinking about was the initial bite you described. I do prefer there more consistent performance for feathering that the SRAM provides but I am put off that you need a special tool just to modify it.
I don’t live near a bike shop, don’t have the confidence to maintain my own bike so I like durability and reliability. The shimano trivetrain has been bulletproof for me so I will stick with that. However I am leaning toward staying with SRAM on the brakes. Do they have a mineral oil version with a tool-less option?
SRAM does have the DB8’s which is mineral oil based braking system. I’m a sram guy so DOT fluid isn’t a dealbreaker over the performance.
As a bike shop owner and mechanic and someone thats been riding for 20+ years, i would just go ahead, generalize it and give shimano the clear win on this one. Without going too deep into the details: they work better and more consistent, the are way easier to maintain and repair, the performance difference across the different groups are very minimal if even existent, and depending on where you are they are sometimes even cheaper. As a rider, my biggest issue with sram is the inconsistency with the gears and the brakes. As a bike shop owner my biggest issue with sram is just how difficult they make everything to work on. Adjusting the mech, swapping kassettes or chainrings, bleeding brakes...everything takes at least twice as long and require special tools. Extremly annoying. Ive even had XD kassettes braking theire tool fittment inside itself making it impossible to remove the kassette from the hub. Needless to say that wheel went to trash just because of some stupid sram xd kassette....and yes, sram already has some mineral oil brakes on the market. Had a customer bike with those brakes a couple of weeks ago at the shop. I also didnt know they existed tbh...
Looking at what you said, doesn't that just mean that shimano are ripping us off on the xtr and xt?
Informative to hear your perspective both as a rider and a LBS mechanic. Question. Do you still favor Shimano on road bikes too and for the same or different reasons?
@@Lee-ic2ynpretty much. At that point you are just paying for less weight, but not necessarily more performance
@@lawor8 to be fair, my experience with sram road groupsets is veeery limited, so i cant really comment in that. Sram on road bikes are rare here in europe. If a bike doest have shimano, then it has campangolo instead of sram
You could have just pulled the cassette off along with the freehub body still attached rather than “throw away a whole wheel.”
After using Shimano for 30 years, tried Sram X01. Wow, best I have ever used by a large margin.
X01 good maybe but very .expensive
The SRAM tick is a real thing, i've just about converted everything to XT these days it's bulletproof.
Some of these differences carry over to lower grade stuff as well. I had an 11sp sram apex trigger shifter that was thumb push only up and down. Shimano deore 11 sp has the index pull for up shifting, which is preferable for me. I also like the shimano brakes better, mostly due to better rotor clearance, and I'm talking the lower end MT 200 brakes.
Had the low end on my bikes for years, before deciding to upgrade. When it comes to that side of things, Deore 12 is way better than NX. it's not just that middle cog, but that thing is annoying enough on its own.
So now fortunate to have XT , and didn't bother to check GX. If the ground floor is crooked, I'm not renting upstairs .
I'll take SRAM for drivetrain, and Shimano for brakes.
I found I had to be waaaaay more picky about derailleur hanger alignment with SRAM. I literally just found my XT derailleur loose. The mounting bolt was a couple turns out. Still shifted great.
I like both, like you said. But it’s probably related to the complaint you have with sram.
i switched from sram sx to shimano xt. just wow. i didnt know shifting is fun. worth every penny.
Im considering this too. I got my ebike and want to go for rd-8100-gs, sl-8100, cs-7100 10-45t and 9100 chain. Also i need new freehub body and front raceface n/w shimano 34t chainring. Total cost is about 350e.
Tried my friends xtr drivetrain for a few minutes and jesus that was "fun" like you said.
Love my XX1 🌈 cassette with X01 shifter and derailleur 👌🏼
I have Shimano SLX on one bike & SRAM on another bike. Shimano is excellent & SRAM is not as good (but still nice)
Thanks!
I appreciate it
Great review and great points to consider! Thanks.
After having two Shimano derailleurs fail thanks to the over engineered clutch mechanism I prefer the simple and effective sprung pin of the SRAM derailleur. The problems with the Shimao clutch is that it is extremely delicate for such a harsh environment and is prone to water and grit ingress.
Sram got to 12 speed and killed 3x and 2x because they never could make a front derailleur that worked well. Their brakes use DOT fluid which attracts water from the air for no reason at all. Mineral oil is superior and not as bad for the enviroment. I'll never use sram for those reasons.
Using the best of both worlds! Shimano Brakes (DOT fluid sucks for the DIY mechanic like me). 12-speed Shamono XT cassette and chain with GX Eagle AXS electronic derailleur. The ShaRAMo Drive train works flawlessly
Great video, Clint.
I run Eagle with an XX1 shifter on the HT. The shifts are so easy and crisp on the thumb. On the XC fully I run Shimano 12s with an XTR derailleur and an XT shifter. The shifts down are much harder on the thumb to the point where I almost feel like the thumb becoming sprained :) have you experienced this and found a solution? BTW the XTR derailleur has the correct torque. The clutch torque can be set with the clutch screw through the opening covered with a rubber plug.
Just use Shifter/Der from SRAM and cassette from Shimano - that's all. It works great and you can use AXS sram with Shimano cassettes.
I have no issues with shimano shifters personally, but sram ones are easier to click.
Try SLX trigger it shifts radier than XT/Xtr but does not have the possibility to make double up shift
The shimano clutch tension is adjustable and needs to be checked periodically, sram is not adjustable. I clean and check my chain weekly but I have had a problem with shimano when putting on a new chain. I replace the chain at .5 wear but the new chain will catch on the 10 tooth cog and cause the chain to skip. It seems the cog wears out too fast with my style of riding, I am thinking of trying to up my chain ring size to a 34t from a 32t so that I use the 10 tooth a lot less.
I Run Saints On my CF Warden 220/203 MTX Reds 3wt. Maxima Fluid . Stops Amazing . I Ride Vancouver Daily 😎
Shimano shifters are always trigger to release, it was, I think over a decade ago, where they started doing push to release as well. Always preferred shimano shifters, I like using the triggers shifters, not SRAM's push push as you would say.
Clint, I have been using the SRAM AXS Eagle XX1 drivetrain components for the last three years and I have always had one cog on the cassette (second largest cog) that stubbornly does not want to function as well as the other 11. I have tried micro adjusting dozens of times, but it's always the same cog that doesn't work quite as well
Good vid.. XT brakes / GX drivetrain 🙌
Shimano XT shifter/derailleur with Magura MT-5 Brakes. Sram X01 cassette. Sram XX1 chain. ( No center cassette issues with Shimano's B-gap design. )
I thought I was the only one with the problem you mentioned about that cog in Sram Eagle drivetrain. I was never able to index that speed correctly.
I have that same problem with SRAM cassettes. They all make noise in - I believe it's the 8th gear. Always sounds like it's trying to jump to 7th. Both my SRAM bikes do it. I also can't tune it out.
Also, I am not a fan of SRAM brakes - at all... Shimano for the win here. They stop better and the fluid isn't toxic or harmful and the fluid doesn't suck moisture from the air like a vacuum.
Yep. That’s why my dream build project has Shimano XT brakes
I really feel the biggest difference in these two drivetrains are the shifting and the ability to shift under load. With the shimano xt and xtr you can shift under load. You can now with the new SRAM transmission
My SRAM brakes are mineral oil, they’re the DB8 and came on my new bike, I do prefer the Shimano brakes on my hard tail though they seem to modulate better.