Back Focal Distance & Your Telescope Image Train for Astrophotography (Not Funny)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- Turns out you guys want me to drop astrophotography knowledge instead of memes and jokes so here is a super sexy video about telescope back focal distance and image trains and go in a bit deeper about why your backyard astrophotography might suck, somewhat. Pretty exciting stuff. Don't peak too early.
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4 people are partially blind.
4 people eyeballed their reducers holding them up to the Sun.
Or two tried it twice.
They burned their pathetic eyeballs
And completley stoopid
Nice! I've come to think that astrophotography is basically complicated plumbing!
Haha perfect analogy 👌🏼
I'm a plumber's kid. Can confirm.
I'm a plumber... can reconfirm ;)
Ian Sharp pluming with gold plated pipe 💰
@@LAshotts and instead of water your directing light, which is even more finicky
You cracked me up when you were going to point the reducer to the sun!! 😂
Love that technical demo of finding the focal point by burning shit.
Visceral eh ?
If you want a simple way to sort out all those adapter, you can use some plastic tray box with compartment. One axis to order the largest side of an adapter, the other axis to order the small side. So for example, all the 1.25 inch to bigger diameters are on the same row. If you like to over-complicate things, you can group the compartments by 2x2 square of 4 with all the female and male combinations sorted. It's a nice way to sort out all sort of adapters, no matter the application.
Great presentation just what I needed, I just purchased A QHY camera and I'm finding new information everyday thanks again.
Hits like, for the big long thing on principle alone!
This video makes my subwoofer go crazy at various points, like you have wind on the mic or something
I just bought that same diagonal and Barlow last night.so how convenient that you made this because one of my questions was should I be using the diagonal with my DSLR.i have an 8 inch Celestron HD btw...thanks Dylan!
I aim to serve ! 😆
Nice to see Dylan supporting local Aussie business. Not Bintel, I mean Glad bags! :D
Hahaha
I offer my never ending friendship for the off axis guider. Oh and I love your vids
Just subscribed....Hello from Oregon, USA. Enjoying your videos!
Hey thanks for the sub John!
Haven’t seen you do a full song you wrote in so long! Would be fun to hear some new stuff if you have been working on anything! And as always, great telescope vids 🔭
You know when Dylan posts it's gonna be a good day
Love the ending! Glad to see a new video from you. Been a while....
Stay safe
Thanks Mike :) I try to release every week.. apart from 2 recent weeks I've stuck to that schedule for months now. Which surprises even me!
I'm a simple man. The Australian man told me to hit like for the big long thing, so I did.
Good man
Awesome, thanks Dylan!
One thing about the Celestron reducer is they measure from the end of top of the thread for 146mm... something I didn’t realize for months because I ... didn’t... RTFM. I hated the OAG at first the small FOV, the precious spacing in my image train it takes, but it’s so so much more accurate guiding than a guide scope.
Interesting! Guiding is so basic though it’s accuracy is dependant mostly on your polar alignment and flexure. If both of these things are ok there is no significant / noticeable improvement for OAG. Just another way.
@@DylanODonnell I used a 60mm guide scope and noticed significant star elongation to learn about differential flexure. Basically when I'm using OAG I have perfect pretty round stars (when the gods are pleased) especially with long exposures, compared to slight elongations with guide scope 60mm. It's pretty much exactly identical to this guys post: www.saratogaskies.com/articles/gs-vs-oag/index.html . I don't have this problem with my refractor, just SCT.
The Optec FR was great until I found there was not enough back focus to get an in-line focuser behind it. The late-to-market Celestron 0.7x FR works great on my C925 Edge and allowed ample space for a Moonlite CHL focuser. Now I get unbelievable V-curves and super low HFR readings. But you are good to point out knowing your back focus is critical for adding other accessories later (helps to plan ahead)!
Nice one John. I'm super happy with the 0.7x .. much better than the Lepus 6.3 third party one.
Hi Dylan! I have re-watched this video trying to figure out the best guiding solution for my not as big and long as yours but not too bad C8 HD 😅 what are you using instead of off-axis guiding? 🙏🙏
One more reason to avoid diagonals with astrophotography is that the mirror in them can shift, which can alter the placement of your target and change your focus.
They are the devil.
Looks like you need an adapter friend or a friend with adapters so you can trade adapter stories with... I wish I had adapters🥺
I’d love to see a video about optimizing exposure times
Yeh I've been thinking a lot about this lately. I sort of touch on this on my very old "what is stacking" video
I just posted a while ago on cloudy nights and found out my image train with that celestron adapter 93633-A may not work well with the SCT and a DSLR if you are using the celestron focal reducer. I've been using it and getting star streaks on the outer areas of the image and good stars in the center. I'm going to test a new configuration this weekend to see if a shorter focal distance will improve on that. Thanks for the video, it came at a good time for me. While I can still get focus maybe the closer sensor to the telescope will get rid of some of the stars that seem to be stretched on the edges.
Good to know! Makes sense.. exactly what I'm talking about here.
Hey Dylan , have you ever added an external focuser to a Celestron Edge HD ? Is that something I should do to improve focusing an 8 inch for imaging galaxies with a mono camera and LRGB ?
I'll buy you a 6 pack of stone wood for the off axis guider
I wouldn't have hit like if big long thing wasn't mentioned. Keep it going @Dylan O'Donnell
Here here for Bintel
Gotta love them big long things
Corners of the hole :D :D
So its the T adapter that screws to the back of the reducer?
Thanks for another great video. Keep them coming!
Peter Bresler thanks mate!
I can't believe neaf only gave you around 3k subscribers... Your videos are so good it should be 30k...
Heh I think it was more Trevor than NEAF that bumped my subscribers that month. Would be nice to have more but I understand I'm servicing a pretty small niche! I'm amazed to have this many. :)
@@DylanODonnell Is this a humble Dylan😳?! I knew you had that side within you, you just don‘t show it ever too often 😂
Hey Dylan i ended up chatting with Don about my back focus issue with my 294mc pro and 6in newt he work it out to 40mm for me based on my set up looks like another clear night so tonight a big test
Great video. I am very new to all of this and I am curious how you figure out the appropriate Back focus length for an Olympus OM-D E M-5 Mark II with a Celestron NexStar 8SE. I have found a t-ring adapter and a male/ female adapter and will be using a Celestron 6.3 reducer. I heard the trial and error method but wanted to see if there was a way to determine what it should be. You said to check the manufacturer but I could not find anything from Olympus.
Good one Dylan!
Much better than your last rubbish (joke)! You’re already very humorous without over-doing it!
Mel (and why don’t you come to South Pacific Astronomical Star Parties?)
Thanks Mel :) I'll be at QLD Astrofest!
good advice on leaving an imaging train together, could mean needing duplicate parts in a collection but it can be worth it if it's just spacers or an adapter... also backfocus was confusing in the beginning side of the hobby , it's very good for people to see how exactly to take it into account. I have that OAG, it's really big (including big prism) but modular, I haven't had much time with it since I focus on hyperstar right now but I hoped guide stars weren't a problem with it. What FL is your guide scope operate at? What do you think about Optec/Innovations foresight ONAG / sharplock? Keep doing what you're doing.
Guide scope is 600mm focal length but I have a smaller one I use sometimes with the RASAs which makes sense... probably overkill to have more focal length in the guidescope than the main scope :) No idea about those other products . I've heard a little and sounds interesting but regular guiding works so well for me I don't see any need to guide from the back at all.
I seem to spend half my life looking for adaptors I know I have but can’t find! What annoys me most though is the insane expense of these things. They are metal tubes with a thread. How can they cost so much? Love the vids. Clear skies.
Oh man. I spent like $50 + shipping for a 1mm spacer to make the RASA 8 work.
help me here mate. Bintel Newtonian F4 or Celestron Rasa 8? I pretty much follow your imaging pattern. help me choose.
Yet another great video Dylan. That tweet though 😂 also I’m getting coloured banding in my stacked/processed images. I have no filters in atm (purchasing triband or just LP next month) I’m using a modded Nikon do you think the coloured banding is LP or a local light leakage possibly.
It’s typical for dSLrs if they are thin lines.. the best way to handle is both with darks and dithering. LP typically comes from an edge so it could be! Dunno I’d have to see. Use a dew shield to reduced LP hitting the side though.
Dylan O'Donnell thanks for the advice I really appreciate it.
Dylan O'Donnell hope you don’t mind I’ve tagged you in my image on instagram to show you what I’m talking about. If you have time that would be great. If you don’t have the time it’s not a problem 👍
Ah yes, the fine ancient art of hoarding things, be it adapters, cables or tools.
Also, good tip for finding out the focal distance with the Sun, too bad you can only do that once with each eye xD.
Yeh.. people in the comments keep saying you can't do it. But you can! At least twice!
I have a sort of weird question about reducers. I have a 10" LX200 f/6.3 and I also have a f/6.3 focal reducer. Does that make f4 or does it change at all?
Yes those spacers... I bought two sets of spacers six each, of course there were duplicates. Then to come to find out I needed a 7mm spacer for the 11” RASA to get me to a 55mm back focus. Again another six spacers, the other five spacers being duplicates. Sooner or later I be able to set up a road side vendor selling my duplicate spacer. “Dave’s Back Focus Spacers... at 9.99” Here in the USA these spacers can be had on Amazon. Yes my ruler is is mm... can’t live without it! Now I’m the search for piggyback telescope rings... my head hurts. Going to give Dave a call at High Point Scientific and let him figure out the right set of rings that I need. In my findings High Point has the best selection of telescope rings and other stuff too. Not only that, they are very knowledgeable and friendly too!
Something I'm confused about is, does the length of the image train differ if you add a barlow or a reducer or does it just stay the same?
Great video which leads me to ask a newbie question. I have an AT72EDII refractor and I'm not currently using a focal reducer. My ASI533MC Pro imaging camera requires a 55mm backfocus. Where do I measure this from? Thanks
Hey Dylan,lovely video mate.I am a newbie.My Question is w.r.t OAG.I have a EdgeHD8.I am confused about what should i do for autoguiding.If not OAG then what?
Can you explain why you don't use manual or motorised focussers? Whats the difference with using a lot of spacer etc?
Hello Dylan’s , still having focusing problem of my setup - Celestron 8SE , ZWOASI178 (mono). What kind of extension /adapter I need? Or should I keep my diagonal? Kindly advise. Thank you.
Thanks Dylan I have the same telescope and set up. The ASI 1600 apparently needs to be 56 mm from the end of the of the 0.7 Celestron reducer. How does moving the focuser on the telescope come into the equation i.e if i move the mirror and get a good focus using a Bhatmov mask, does that mean i have reached the correct back focus? or is backfocus different from focusing the telescope?
Thanks
Another very useful video, thank you! Question: I have just the C9.25. Do you know if I can I use the 7x reducer on it? Or is that one just for the HD?
Yeh the one I’m using is the ehd and took agggges to come out. Worth upgrading the scope for though it’s great.
@@DylanODonnell Thank you for the quick reply. I am newly retired and married. I think my wife would kill me (well something anyway) if I upgraded now. But I will keep that in mind for the future. Thanks
Hi Dylan, I'm a beginner with AP and am working on my planets first with a Barlow and ZWO 178MC camera. Can you give me details as to your planetary image train setup? Specifically what nose setup do you have? I have a 8VX
Great vid, not enough memes and jokes though. ;)
Haha I'll try harder next time.
I love your country❤️
but the best coffee is bornt in Italy (Naples)
Thanks for sharing best astro videos ever.
Saluti and clear skies from Italy
Hehe admittedly you guys started it ;)
And thanks !
Dylan, I absolutely love your videos and you've taught me a lot. I'm using a C11 but added a feather touch focuser to the image train. I'm struggling to achieve focus without coma. So my question is...where should I measure from for back focus since I'm not passing an optical surface, i.e. reducer? Also...I'm about to throw my zwo OAG down a canyon, so if you wanna pass me yours....lol
Do you have an Edge HD C11 ? If you don't it might not have a flat field to be coma-free. The regular ones would need some sort of corrector I assume. Also having a filter backwards can cause coma too. Or if you camera chip is too big for your OTA image circle.
@@DylanODonnell Thanks for the response. I have the non-edge C11, so I'll look into getting a corrector to see if that helps. I'm using ZWO LRGBHOS filters and followed their directions to make sure they're oriented properly. I see the same affect on all filters so hopefully I didn't install them all backwards. I'm also using an ASI 1600MM Pro, but I don't think the sensor is the culprit. Thanks again, and keep making those awesome videos!
I have a question. If I use a bahtinov mask to find the focus in a star and after that use this focus on a planet, it's will work?
Dylan this video is perfect timing for me. Hope you don't mind me picking your brain (again).
I have just got a second hand QHY10 off ice in space. i did my research and it was from a long time/well known member who has a solid history of buying/selling so I'm almost certain my issues aren't related to getting ripped off.
Tried using it for the first time last night and the images coming off the camera were garbage. If I put the exposure length anything past 5s it became a noisy noisy mess. It was difficult to see many stars in the frame which made focusing/platesolving etc difficult. I'm pretty certain I have the correct back focus - QHY10 has 20mm and my field flattener needs 55mm so I have 35mm of spacers. Annoyingly the spacers don't thread all the way into each other so it's more like 37mm giving me a total of 57mm. First question is, does having slightly more backfocus than needed result in my camera struggling to focus and giving me the crappy image? Or will it just result in a non flat field but still focus ok.
Other than the backfocus there could be something wrong with my setup that could be causing the image quality issues but I'm not sure what. The QHY was running of AC with the ac/dc converter that comes with the camera, I use a stellarmate for acquisition which has never given me issues in the past with my dslr, everything was connected and downloading fine and my gain was set to 5, offset 132. I know you don't use your QHY much anymore but when you did use it did you have any issues like this? It's frustrating moving to a cooled CCD and having images that are entirely unusable. I'm still a noob but I know my stuff when it comes to imaging.
Thanks for your help :)
Ask the person you bought it off what values he/she used for Gain and Offset. Then try on big bright targets first and also make sure cooling is on and set low and that you are calibrating your lights with dark frames. They are essential for CCDs.
@@DylanODonnell Thanks Dylan, I was worried initially I bought a lemon, but the seller has been super helpful and even offered a refund.
But, I did some testing yesterday afternoon and did some flats, bias, darks and they all came out looking fine. The flats were a bit odd but I hadn't calibrated them as I was in a bit of a rush. The good news was I saw no obvious vignette or anything that makes me think there are issues with my optical train/spacing.
So if the calibration frames come out ok I'm sure the camera is fine, just user error the other night. Hopefully it stays clear tonight and through the weekend for some proper testing. With all this clear weather we have had (finally) is there a project that you're currently working on?
And we're all alive!
Nice Video Dylan! All those spare parts are byproducts of Astrophotography!
Heeh it's true. And I did see your deleted comment. :) I was using Bintel before I started working with them and there are maybe 6-7 main competitors in the space but only 50% are *actual* astronomy stores and Bintel is the one with the biggest range and reach (and service).
@@DylanODonnell thanks!
Have you used Televue Powermate? Does it change your backfocus?
I love the powermates :) Yes, you measure BFD from the *last* optic in the train. So whatever it's specified BFD is.. the powermate comes apart so is inserted differently for a star diagonal / eyepiece or without straight into the OTA image train.
@@DylanODonnell thanks! I will send you a picture of my image train using Instagram. What I noticed is the length of Powermate can be ignored when measuring the whole back focus, similar to Celestron reducer. I need to confirm that.
Perfect timing for this vid. I'm suffering right now because I'm trying to do DSO's and I don't have everything I need every time. I'm pretty sure Jeff Bezos is trying to get a restraining order against me since I'm stalking on Amazon all the time.
Haha the struggle is real.
Thanks Dylan.
Hi Dylan. Using the ASI 1600mm-cool on the RASA 11 with a filter drawer. Is it best to have the filter drawer right against the camera or have a spacer in between? Still new to this and I have been using it with the 11mm spacer between the camera and filter drawer and the 16.5mm spacer between the filter drawer and RASA mounting plate.
You know I can't really remember and it's not setup right now but I would guess you want the filter as close to the camera chip as possible as the image circle / focus gets narrower towards the chip so you don't want to clip the edges of it on the filter circle and get vignetting.
@@DylanODonnell Thanks...once weather permits I'll try with the drawer closer to the camera and see how the results turn out.
Hi Dylan at 9:35 what are the two adapters between the visual back and the filter wheel.Does the one adapter thread onto the visual back.
It's one of those drop-in 1.25" things so I've dropped it in like an eyepiece would then tightened the screws.
Why do you place the spacer between the filter wheel and the camera?
They are 2” filters and it’s still close enough / they are big enough / not to affect vignetting.
Off topic, but did you ever find out more about taking darks with the asi1600. There doesn't seem to be consensus on it. Some people say use flat darks? I dunno I've just been doing regular darks and it seems to working okay
Flat darks are dark frames matched to your flat frames, and used to calibrate the flats before construction of the master flat. This is preferred to bias frames with the ASI1600 (and some other CMOS cams) as the bias "floats" depending on the exposure length, so standard bias frames taken at shortest exposure often do not work well. Flat darks remove the bias signal from the flats, allowing you to use the (non-bias subtracted) dark frames remove the bias from the lights.
I never bother with flats, I just keep the camera clean. Darks work great and are noticeably better than without even with the 1600mm
Dylan discount... +143%...😜
thanks dylan thanks high point scientific ....hay im greedy i would like to see more jokes and info... ya gotta have a laugh you learn better I M O ...... and i need all the help i can get lol thanks again dylan (hope uni is going great)
cheers
james D
Hehe thanks JD!
Kangaroos. Ya gots them too mate, forgot to mention the kangaroo.
Ouf, I'm not the only one !
One crazy thing I’ve seen is a guy using his 2” filter as a spacer. Hey, it has threads front and back, it should work right?
Hehe yeh well.. most things in the image trains are technically glorified spacers!
Why don't they make just adjustable spacers in the back instead of having to buy a bunch of different sized ones and try to lego your way into getting good back focus?
Agree!
Hey D.O.! Whoa! I now have 11-scopes and 11-mounts at my location... Who doesn't have shelves FULL of widdle black gadgets? But there is a saving grace - a good reason to keep 'em all. (At least, it's a rule we practice here at 53115-1339 USA.) He (or she) who DIES with the most astronomy gear (AKA, kit), WINS. Since I am pushing age 70, may I have an "age handicap" please? (Like in golf?) :) lol
P.S. I for one, like your meaningless memes and dying jokes... I have but ONE gripe about dying - I won't get to see what comes next! As a confirmed technophile, that's the worst ...albeit that I shall also miss, the green side of the grass.
Haha thanks brother. Good to hear someone of your vintage has the heart and soul to enjoy my levity and nihilism! Keep up the good work :)
Thanks for the humorous, informative and useful video - even though it was meaningless . . . because I'm going to die. ((- ; {
such good stuff. pls ensure audio quality is good. so much of echo and noise. all the knowledge, hardwork is disturbed and lost.
Wouldn't a crayford focuser do the same thing as all those spacers?
spacers are put behind a corrector, while the focuser is in front. This affects the image projected on the camera or eye
Hey Dylan, did you sell your Celestron OAG ?
Nope! Still here if you want to make me an offer.
yes
ok sure :)
FIRST!!!!! ERMAHGERD!!!! Caught it in first 26 seconds!!!!
Also great vid, Dylan! I needed a good source of into about this stuff lol.
Hehe yep .. you win this round Rob. :)
@@DylanODonnell Lol
In the intro of all your videos, what is that red circle you are tracking a dot with? Is that an asteroid?
Yeh I don’t go looking for them but they turn up in my image runs so I always check now :)
How can you NOT leave a LIKE when at the end you shortly introduce simon and garfunkel? The video was as boring as the topic, so finishing it up like this is just not fair 😂😂😂 ! Thanks! I guess that IS the boring, strenuous, extremely unsexy part of amateur astrophotography 😡😱 ... But two days ago I got a two hour glimps at a clear sky after work, put my camera with a 50mm lens on a tripod, took lots of pictures of Plejades, the nebulas around „swan“ and OF COURSE some more pictures of „my“ andromeda, using the same darks, bias and flat frames for all three of them and was JUST LOVING IT. The two hours of freezing under the clear skies, then punishing my computer with all the pictures - and I was just again BLOWN AWAY of what can be made visiible with such a simple setup an a little help of all that „stacking and processing“- stuff! Sincerely from the rainy / snowy lake of constance, Stefan
Haha thanks for rubbing it in that you have the best sky's.lol
Wouldn’t be a star stuff video if I didn’t 😆
Super ☺👍:)
I just did this the other day : ) did some trial and error with my reducer, at 6 different spacings.... expose, remove spacer, expose, remove spacer, expose, etc., 6 times. All show significant coma. -_-;
Check to see if you have a filter backwards.
Hold it up to the Sun. That's why his eyes are so dark.
It'd have been funny had you had a bit of a scream and cut to a shot with an eye patch, don't do that and gone on like nothing happened.
Hehe one day maybe ;)
4:17. Imstructions? What... it's like i dont even know u anymore.Also, can you do maybe talk to your sponser and do a beginner buil, intermittent build pro build, dream build ext ext lol thank. Im poor and jimmy rigging something lol it's not pretty but i got a focal length of 3,000mm f13, but build was about 300 bucks
Good suggestion :) Yeh I said "thanks John" because when google failed - I just asked Bintel and he rubbed the *instructions* in my face. Pfff. Surely the BFD should be printed on *every* optic. #nobodyreadstheinstructions
4 debbi downers again, geeze you cant win
Such is TH-cam :)
Still got that OAG?? Lol
Hit like for "big long thing..." :-)))) you forgot "black"....
Haha!
I need to win lotto......
Yeh I find it hard to keep up with the expense of the hobby sometimes! But there's a lot you can do with a little. Software and technique is just as important as gear. I know a lot of dudes with twice as much gear as me who can't make a photo.
Dylan O'Donnell good point, plenty of those guys everywhere. I just need a go to that can hold the weight of a camera. I am sure I could work out some kind of counter balance but, we just have a celestron 90mm wifi, will have to look into the “clutch” on it, as it seems really “loose”
Back focus..
Yea..yea...well we've got rain and damp and clouds and no air conditioning and....and a hot AND a cold tap, who's laughing now eh
Hot *and* cold!
Best Beer...?
You've never tasted german Beer😅
Challenge accepted. Bring me german beer.
yeah yeah!!!!!!!!. alot of crap!!!! me too me too!!!
I bet you pay a nice shipping fee to Australia. Dylan, how are we to trust you if you keeping telling us to do something that is not the correct way ...
Yeh shipping to Australia is ridiculous. And you shouldn't trust me. :)
Lacks humour. 3 stars only.
Erik Korhonen god dammit !
🧐😂🤓
Sorry Dylan, you video looks very childish. Why are you sticking half your face into the camera? Why am I watching you?
Dylan these videos are becoming more and more loose in their content.
It might be a joke to you and other experts interested in astro equipment but newbies need to be told to never ever hold lenses up to the sun and eyeball them.
This coupled with your other supposedly "funny" vid on cleaning and I'm wondering whether to unsub you.
really? No one should EVER need to be told not to hold up a piece of glass and look through it while facing the sun. That has nothing to do with astro and everything to do with common sense
Thanks for the feedback! I'm probably a bit loose for you so I totally understand if you need to unsub. Thanks for sticking around for a while though!
Hello Dylan’s , still having focusing problem of my setup - Celestron 8SE , ZWOASI178 (mono). What kind of extension /adapter I need? Or should I keep my diagonal? Kindly advise. Thank you.