Therapist Reacts to THE PERKS OF BEING A WALLFLOWER
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How do you find hope after devastation or trauma? How do you handle the pain of people you care about?
Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright talk about some of the answers to those questions from the coming of age story for Charlie in The Perks of Being a Wallflower. They take a look at acceptance (of yourself, of others, and from others), healing from past trauma, mental health, finding love and friendship, and how this feels authentic to a lot of the teen experience. They also talk about the fabulous performances from Logan Lerman and Emma Watson, but really mostly Paul Rudd because he's always the best.
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Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker, and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright, and Alan Seawright
Edited by: David Sant
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis
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My favorite quote isn’t “We accept the love we think we deserve”, it’s “You can’t just sit there and put everyone’s lives ahead of yours and think that counts as love.” They’re both incredible advice, but the second one always resonated with me more. Hit me like a ton of bricks when I rewatched this movie after a breakup some years ago.
I don't get it. Enlighten me.
@@chimpwimp9407 lets say someone asks you for something. You don't really feel to help, but you also think "i have to, i like that person.".
If you end up doing this, helping friends, like 24/7, you don't live your own life.
Some may feel like they just *have* to help, anytime someone asks them. But no, you don't. Noone has to. You can love people, even if you don't help them everytime. Even if you take time for yourself. This seems to be obvious, but sometimes you just need to remember.
(That's how I understood it. Also took me a while ^^)
I get why this can hit more. To me the first one already was very heavy since I've been thinking about this so many times and I know someone who I think has to learn to accept love
@@chimpwimp9407 Putting yourself first is self love and if you don’t love yourself, how can you expect the same from others? How I took it😊
@@Datenauflauf
I grew up Christian so I learn that if you can you should always help people. Idk. Maybe I interpreted my religious teachings wrong.
When you realize Sam's manic pixie dream girl trope here is really her just trying to navigate and cope through her own trauma; it seems much less of a trope and much more of a real human being portrayed on screen.
And then you think of every MPDG in every movie ever and want to punch the writer/director who didn't see them as actual humans.
@@elenachristian9860 Agreed. Actually, I'd want to punch every movie writer/director who didn't see their main or supporting characters as actual humans (unless we're talking hyperbolic comedies or whatever).
I think they were able to pull off some pretty common tropes in a way that made them just feel real and genuine
Agreed. Her character is very well written and multidimensional.
100% because I am a MPDG trauma response type
"victims go after the same relationships to recreate that scenario, but this time they win." Holy shit, that explains so much. I always wondered why I would see my friends get into relationships they knew were bad for them, and even they didn't know. Trying to regain that sense of control and power makes perfect sense.
Yep, i like this whole set up of a movie maker & a therapist evaluating movie story lines and their perspectives. I think its awesome!
Important to specify, this is an unconscious process that people largely don't realize is playing out until they've reached a place of relative safety and security to be able to look back on their patterns in aggregate. It won't do much good to try to tell someone that this is what they're doing, because from their perspective, they likely won't be able to see it. This is very deeply ingrained stuff that often comes from living a life where abuse and severe lapses in basic human decency are commonplace and normalized.
Dormamu! I've come to... oh noooo
Nah fuck that. You must beat every scenario there are no no-win scenarios.
It really hit home for me that nearly every single one of my romantic relationships was with someone I felt was "safe", but who turned out not to be. I chose people I thought wouldn't or COULDN'T bully or control me because I endured ruthless bullying and control from my father, my sister, and people who were my friends for years but turned their backs on me when they decided I "wasn't cool enough" (direct quote). I chose men who were less intelligent, less funny, less talented, less spontaneous, less outgoing, and more damaged because I felt like I needed to be in control, but mostly VALUED. The result of that was that I would inevitably try to fix them to be more like me anyway (so incredibly egotistical) and when I would inevitably start to be verbally, sexually, and/or physically abused, I'd wonder why. I wanted to fix them because I couldn't fix myself. I was insecure that maybe I wasn't as smart as I thought. Maybe I wasn't as funny, or talented, or beloved, or respected as I thought. But, in my mind, at least I was MORE of those things than they were. If I had more, they didn't have anything to use against me. It was unbelievably manipulative. And the craziest part is, they still used those things against me! One of my boyfriends was objectively less intelligent than me, but he constantly told me how stupid I was. One of them was shy and more reserved, but when he saw that I wasn't constantly "on", he would put me down for being boring. As a damaged person, I unconsciously picked out people who were more damaged than me, and then I got abused. Time and time and time again. Even though I wasn't outright abusive to them, in trying to save them from the problems I KNEW THEY HAD, AND CHOSE THEM FOR HAVING, I put them on the defense. 😢
"You will have people who reject you. You will have people who aren't interested in your company. You will have people who are judgemental of what you are. But you do it long enough and you'll find your people."
I wish I'd heard this when I was a kid.
I wish it was true. the only people I click with are online
It's my senior year at high school and my last summer of being a child. I got the same experience of being a alienated person to an alive soul after i switch to high school. Movies helped me a lot to cope up with life and give me a hint of being alive and not stick to things that make you feel not worth it. Like i feel the Air of a faraway land waiting for it's discovery kind of sensation. And i will make my story a picture book so that the reader doesn't feel bored to pick up it again and again and again
I’m glad I click with my sisters they’re my only friends.
Imagine thinking a world full of people who want nothing to do with you is a world worth sticking around in just because you might find another desperate loser willing to tolerate you if you look long enough...
@@Ahzpayne In my opinion, that's better than the alternative where you let all of that define you and give up. You perish in some way, either literally by taking your own life, or metaphorically by letting it snuff you out. You weather the storm because you have to trust that you'll find safe harbour, or you disappear under the waves with just a chance of people knowing about you long after you're gone as opposed to them knowing you while you're around.
(Not entirely sure if this makes much sense, I'm ridiculously tired and felt compelled to speak. Hope you [and anyone else who might see this] have a good day wherever you are in the world and in your life
The sequence of Charlie's repressed memories of his aunt sexually abusing him was so chilling, complete with jump cuts, the lingering shots of the knife, and Charlie's sister's mounting terror after he asks her "I killed Aunt Helen, didn't I?" Since Helen was abused by someone she trusted, it's horrifying that she repeated the same cycle with Charlie. The poor guy blamed himself for her death for years.
I didn’t read the book but watching the movie I never got that. I’m so glad they did this movie so I can read the comments
Sadly that's often what happens someone is abused and the grows up to be an abuser as well I think that could be because that person never dealt with what happened to then so that could be why they grow up to do it as well.
@@annah7793 He blamed himself once he remembered. I can't speak to if he blamed himself before hand.
You got great taste trina q
@@annah7793 I think is not so clear in the movie honestly, they make it too sutil and it gets lost
Brilliant acting from Emma in the scene when Sam confesses to Charlie that her first kiss was from her father's boss when she was eleven. She's obviously still torn up about this, so ensures that Charlie's first kiss will be from someone who genuinely cares about him.
So that's what her abuse was. I get it now.
That “wanting to ensure that his first kiss is from someone who loves him” treads a thin line with some pedo’s logic-“I want you to have a better experience than I did.”
It’s cute when Emma‘s character does it, because she’s not that much older, and she has a genuine affection for Charlie, but there’s that tinge of it… and here’s me, wishing I didn’t know what I know about the pathology.
it’s still 100% weird since she knows the effects it has on ppl. And that excuse, ‘wanting it to be from someone who genuinely cares about you’ is a Pedo excuse and doesn’t justify that.
In the book it says: "She told me about the first time she was kissed. She told me that it was with one of her dad's friends. She was seven. And she told nobody about it except Mary Elizabeth and then Patrick a year ago. And she started to cry."
@@stephenlackey5852 Absolutely. She's significantly older, she knows he's lost and confused, she is unavailable to him and bound to make emotionnal damage.
This isn't about him at all. It's about a romanticized version of herself.
As someone who was sexually assaulted as a child, this movie means the world to me. No other film has been able to portray the pain and turmoil one endures after being abused. Easily one of my favorite films.
This movie made me feel better cuz I was having a crisis where I thought I was lying cuz it took me so long to remember and i was at peace with my abusers I loved them before remembering
same this movie has been my favorite since my peer counselor teacher played it in class in the 7th grade and it’s continuously validated me and allowed me to grow through my trauma and understand that i’m not alone
I'm glad there's someone that feels the same way. I've never had a favorite movie because none of them ever related to me, but this movie made me feel less alone and I've never connected with a movie until I watched this.
Couldn't agree with you more. I saw this before I told anyone what had happened to me, and for that it means everything to me x
I showed my mom this movie and she finally understood how I felt about my assault
This movie, specifically the scene with the doctor telling his parents what the aunt did, is the thing that made me realize I want to go to into child psychology to help little kids understand what they've been through. I have also experienced sexual abuse from my older brother and it was one of the most difficult things in my life to understand and heal from and I'm still healing
i hope you get to do the work you want and help a lot of people 😢
Purple Burples thank you💛
Hello. I have a friend who is currently experiencing this, they are 15, their brother is an adult and they've been raped. They don't know what to do and neither do I. How did you address this situation?
@@alexanderalexroger5421 I’m not completely sure on what you are saying. Do you mean their adult brother raped them and the child is 15?
@@alexanderalexroger5421 tell someone. tell someone you trust or tell someone who can do something about it so it will stop.
Never clicked so fast. This movie, this book, changed my whole life. I never felt so seen by a piece of media. Thanks for reviewing this one, guys.
Same this is my favorite book and I read it at 10
This movie crushed me when I was young, and it still does. Brings me straight back to my highschool self, who felt so alone and so overwhelmed by her trauma
FRR
Same!
SAME IVE BEEN DYING FOR THEM TO DO THIS MOVIE
“despite the absolute chaos that is Ezra Miller” lmaooooo
Well played. Totally agree, their character in this movie is pretty rad.
Chaos is drastic understatement. Ezra Miller is a terrible person.
Well, Artists + Traumatas + Hollywood + (forced?) Stardom + Drugs
Defintley not the first sadly not the last....
yeah, they have some really good roles, its definitely just like, you can be a terrible person and still be really good at your job lol
I love his acting so I'm really disappointed in his personal life and such...
@@specificsoup Some people would claim, going by the projects he did, that in hidnsight being a terrible person might have helped with it.....*shrug* Also, I personally have trouble, from the few year(s) I was aware of that human child to see him as a born Psychopaths (like some say he has always been and I suppose not impossilbe after al their known to act their way through life ) but still doesn't sit completley right with me...I feel more like the person/soul people got to know might hid and died a long time ago and if that was before we even became aware of him and his Art or meanwhile we might never know. But I ain't no therapist, I am just going by the interviews that I use(d) to watch with him in, he never painted himself as an angelich human being, yet I also never saw something so drastic of a downwards spiral coming, I guess in the end it's just a lesson in "You never "know" your favourite Artist really or at least these kinda (hidden) sides of them." Who knows, who else has sob stories and skeletons hidden in their closet from them who we think "You never went coo-coo ala Hollywood." ???? (yet) ???
I think it's easy to forget this was a book written in '99 and the movie was directed by the author who didn't have much directing experience but he definitely had a beautiful story to convey that has touched many lives.
This is the comment i was looking for. Yes. He waited years for the proper cast and the world to be ready for what he had to say and how he had to say it. And he maybe doesnt know, but what he did is SO important
this movie means SO MUCH for me, I swear to god and I've never being ab*sed like that, but i just identify with all the characters so so much, it's a wonderful beautiful movie
I greatly remember carrying this book with me everywhere like a bible, even after graduating. I related so hard because it was like a journal I wrote myself. Eventually overtime I did find my people, I did overcome and faced my trauma, and healed on my own. The day I stopped carrying it around was the day I felt the weight of my trauma lift off my shoulders. That was my "We Are Infinite" moment.
your comment made me cry💕 this book was my safety net for a long time too, brought it with me everywhere just in case. the day i stopped opening it when i was upset was a moment of growth
I just found my people ❣ I didn't realize others did this too 😭
Yep, count me in here, too
Same here, and even if now as an adult I've found my people, love, and happiness, The Perks of Being a Wallflower is and always will be my comfort film and book
thanks to this video i opened that book for the first time in like six years. I used to feel so Charlie. Im glad im past it now, but that nostalgia hitted hard.
This movie spoke to me in terms of panic/anxiety attack. I've never gone through sexual abuse but seeing those scenes of Charlie panicking, gets me because of how real it is. It's almost exactly like how I do them.
How you do or how you experience them?
@@tiffanykim2773 theyre kinda like things you go through, that you cant control, i believe people have different ways of dealing with them that comes with regular experience, though the first is obviously a traumatic experience in itself
@@amyritchie6890 Yes. The first time I had one, I thought I was having a heart attack and going to die. Now I have ways to deal with it. Nothing stops them happening, but you can find ways that work for you to make them easier to get through.
@@christinamoxon this describes on of my anxiety attacks I had years ago and led me to losing feeling in my all but my head and right arm. I had to get someone to pick me up off the ground and help get the nerves going again. But yeah it felt like a heart attack.
Exactly.
"We accept the love we think we deserve." That's my favorite line in the movie, and it says so much in that one sentence! Thank you for covering one of my favorite movies.
"We are infinite."
That's so true, we make think that we'll never get anyone better, so stay with our abusers anyway.
I don't think that's true all the time though.
It makes so much sense
I think that its the best quote ever
@@35yoglenmckenna31 But it's not true.
The scene that hits me the most is when Charlie is sitting at his desk and crying as he whispers to himself “stop crying.” I had a similar situation when I was a kid-it was in the morning before school started and I couldn’t stop sobbing. I paced around my room trying to ignore my parents fighting downstairs and I begged myself to stop crying. This movie is just…so painstakingly relatable. Everything is just filmed so perfectly, it hurts.
i’m so sorry
“People who are generally good can do terrible sh*t” As someone who was on the receiving end of abuse by someone who was exactly like that, I still struggle with those thoughts about that person. Like Charlie, I have so many good memories of that person, and then there’s the singular memory that just tarnishes all the good. It’s so complicated to reconcile. Thank you for touching on this.
I think this is why we use the phrase “we are what we _repeatedly_ do” as a metaphor for describing a person. If we were 100% of all of our actions and words and everything else, then we’d have too complicated of a description to make sense of. Sometimes aberrations can just occur.
To be fair, one could argue that we _are_ everything we do and believe, because it’s not like our choices aren’t a reflection or result of something inside us, and of course we can learn from them when they’re negative. However, I’m clearly intending a simpler interpretation of the concept. It’s much easier to understand a person when we know the broad strokes of their personality and habits and learn the minor details in time than to take everything in all at once.
At the end of the day, we’re all messy and full of nuance, and I’m of the belief that perfection is impossible to embody. It’s not an unworthy goal to aim for, but it’s more of a journey to take rather than a destination to reach.
I didn’t fully grasp the whole abuse angle when I saw this originally, I had no frame of reference for that sort of thing. What spoke to me was the self-hatred, Charlie’s self harm, and the feeling that you’re not living your own life and merely looking at everyone else’s.
Yeah they talk "around" it so much in the movie so it was pretty confusing
@@VioletEmerald not really. It was just very tastefully done. One of those moments you will miss if you blink.
@@ceciliai.ogwude2845 I'd say they do talk around it, but it's also tastefully done - I saw this movie as a kid and having no prior contact to the topic of abuse, I didn't really get the meaning. When I got older, it's like a path was unlocked for me and I understood the entire subtext, that I couldn't grasp earlier.
In my opinion, the way they approached it, you understand more the wiser/ street-smarter you get and the more your concious mind latches onto subtlety.
Thank you for this comment. I never understood the full context of the movie when I first watched it and I never understood why people thought it was so much more than I saw it as… it’s just a film you realise more and more things as you open your eyes to them. Anyway, I thought I was the only one who experienced it as you described the first time. Thanks.
@@ceciliai.ogwude2845 If you can miss it if you blink, I'm not sure it's that well done. I am a survivor of child abuse myself but not sexual abuse but still, I wish Charlie's backstory, once it was being revealed, had been less implied and instead actually explicitly acknowledged inside of the movie. Or if it's going to only be implied, at least imply it in more scenes than one repressed memory sequence done quickly... imply it in a conversation afterward too or something.
When I was in my 20's, I didn't call it "Manic Pixie Dream Girl". One of my besties and I called it. "Being the dancing bear". When in public we were both wild, crazy and loving. We made people laugh and were always doing crazy things and telling crazier stories. When we met...we both stopped.
We bonded over how exhausting it was to try to live up to that. We felt like we always had to perform. We had both been abused and didn't want anyone else to feel pain. So we over compensated when around 'people'. And we never let anyone see us in pain.
I'm with Alan. I hate the trope. Because we were supporting characters in our own lives and have had to learn how to put ourselves out there as three dimensional main characters. And that's not a story that's ever told. We didn't get a roadmap and couldn't afford therapy. She and I figured it out together. We could have done with a sassy talking dog.
@@user-zo5bq8xu5x So am I. We are both in our 40's and happily married to other people. Her kids call me Auntie. We remind each other all the time that we are more than our abuse and we are allowed to not be "okay" all the time. I'm very blessed to have her in my life. She makes me better by letting me hurt when things go wrong.
Yeahhh I used put on a manic pixie dream girl show too. But for a different reason - I just thought it was what people wanted from me and assumed they wouldn't accept who I really am. It's way too exhausting to maintain, and you tend to attract people who put you on a weird pedestal rather than seeing you authentically. I'm glad you found healing and a true friend!
@@obliviousred it is super exhausting! And it's an understandable fear. I started to get upset at people (especially guys) who put me on that pedestal. I hated being on it!
It was scary letting go of that "show". But I found real friends who love and support me for who I really am...and every once in a while, I can still be a little crazy for fun. ❤️ I hope you find/have the same kind of support around you.
@@alyshaspeed8253 I do have a great community. 🙂 And I don't make space anymore for people who don't like me for me. Not worth it! Agreed that the pedestal blows. 😆
I actually read a(n) (audio)book (not that great, but I liked the character) the main character was like this. It was the opening scene where she was at a boat party hating every minute of it. She threw her hat in the river, told the other guests someone needed to get it, then jumped in herself, and was all "Oops guess I have to go home and change" so she could skip.
Everyone else was "That's so (main character's name), when she isn't drinking and gambling dressed like a call girl, she is wonderfully entertaining..."
the walking home scene where he “multiplies” into a bunch of charlies made a lot of sense to me because i’ve had lived through a similar experience. walking home from class and having a panic or anxiety attack (not really sure of what it was) and suddenly the way home felt endless. like it took so much effort and it felt like the road would never end and this is kind of portrayed here in my opinion. you see 3 charlies walking as if it was 3 times longer than it actually was. it also mimics how time passes very weirdly in those moments and you can’t tell how far along the road you actually are. we don’t know which charlie we’re supposed to look at because we don’t know how far along he actually is there.
I definitely think it was meant to portray derealization or depersonalization
It reminded me of disassociating 🙃
Exactly. The spiraling, the ruminating, losing track of time. How to show that experience in a movie? I think they gave us a master class on that question.
Extreme trauma can split the personality cleaving off and creating separate individual pieces of the personality, each with their own individual consciousness, memories and character traits. I believe this was beautifully depicted here.
I was molested my mother not so long ago, and for months I would invalidate me feeling like I was "actually assaulted" because it was done by a woman. I make myself rationalize her behavior and deffend it. My friends would call me out on it as well, but I never heard them out. That was all before I watched this movie. This movie made me realize that what happened to me and my feelings about it ARE valid. And that her having a bad childhood didn't mean she could do that stuff to me.
This movie quite literally saved my life when I was having alot of victim blaming thoughts and was thinking of attempting again. It made me realize that it wasn't my fault, and that I COULD blame her for what she did to me.
🫂🤍
Bro what she did, explain in detail.i am wanna know
@@yogeshthakur9159 no dude
@@yogeshthakur9159shut up
@@yogeshthakur9159KeepYourselfSafe
As a sexual trauma survivor, I loved this film because it's very accurate protrayl of remembering the trauma for the first time. I remembered my trauma right when I started puberty at 12. I used to have dreams but it never showed it clearly until that night, and since then my life took a turn. I became depressed and went to therapy. I justified my abusers actions because they did have a terrible life, and I've come to realize that just like I got help, they could've too. As the result of this trauma, I've made horrible decisions due to the subconsious effects of having this trauma, and I work towards unlearning that everyday.
This movie is great at handling these delicate topics without glorifying them. This movie is close to my heart because I felt understood.
Mine seemed to come back to me around puberty age too. Before that I knew something happened but didn't really know what or how big of a deal it was.
the moment you realize what it was and what it meant.
In my experience, I never tried to justify what they did to me. It helped that one of them is an actual violent scum who was sent to prison for drug use. The hardest part for me is acceptance. Even til now I'm still having a hard time completely accepting what happened. Although, I guess I'm progressing as I can share here (even if anon). I just wished I grew up free of that sht yknow.
god yeah. i had blips throughout my life of “almost remembering” where id get a flashback in my mind of it and think it was nothing or didn’t happen or a dream, especially because it was a family member not too much older than me and i *technically* consented because it was presented as a game to me. it all of a sudden fully hit me one day, i think around 15/16 when i stayed home sick from school. no clue why, it just came up in my mind and my mind finally felt ready to register it as what it was. went through a LOT of emotions, but i also felt validated in why i had felt uncomfortable around them for years when we used to be closer. i realized because i was so young (i believe around 4/5ish?) it warped my perception of what i was “good for” by puberty, so i thought i was supposed to date and like every guy, and put up with a lot of sexual encounters i didn’t fully feel comfortable engaging in as i got older. not to mention playing a similar “game” with friends all growing up, and now not knowing if it was just childhood curiosity like many experience, or if i’m like they are in their heads. but i know both of us were so young, we didn’t realize what we were doing, and they were a victim and thought whatever may have been happening to them must’ve been normal, as i did afterwards too. it’s such a hard thing to just suddenly realize after so long of repressing, this movie always comforted me so much, especially that storyline. i saw myself so clearly, even before i had realized it happened, and it never felt glorified at all, just exactly what i was feeling and wanting from the people around me. god i love this movie
Yes to all of this. Same experience and reactions. This book/movie was really important.
On the note of people needing therapy because they've *done* terrible things, that's something that doesn't get talked about much, because we generally think of people who do terrible things as being deserving of suffering. And that might be true, to a degree. I think we need to understand that we are all capable of doing terrible things
Sure, but there’s a threshold of terrible things and some extreme degrees of empathy are inappropriate.
@@squeezie_b8895 I'd say the limit changes based on who *wants* to change. Terrible crimes are objective but the people who commit them are subjective. Not everyone is cut from the same cloth, not everyone has the same reasoning or motivations, but if they genuinely are seeking help to be a better person (not to go through the motions) then I think they deserve that help.
In a way, forcing them into therapy is a form of suffering. Ignorance is bliss, and making them understand how terrible they are is sentencing them to a life of unending guilt and shame. I remember a post of a former incel who realized how horrible he was and now he struggles with self-loathing. Of course, the caveat is that many terrible people are so entrenched that they will never see.
@@esverker7018 it is the least they can do. If they seek help they are trying to be better, instead of just repeating the same mistakes and hurting more people.
@@esverker7018 so, would you prefer death penalty thus they didn't suffer?
When she kisses him and looks at him and says "I love you Charlie" ... it kinda reminds me of "Heal from having your parents before having children so you're children don't have to heal from having YOU as a parent"....I think she's trying to give him what she would've liked to have for her first kiss. And I think that's why she even put aside the fact that she has a boyfriend and even after clarifying it to him,she still wants that for him. "Enough about my problems and failures, let's instead try to prevent someone else from going through that"
"victims of abuse often try and even subconsciously, recreate what they've been through" left me absolutely speechless. winded even. that sentence like opened my eyes to why i have such a hard time moving on from my abuser and unhealthy situations. this channel is my saving grace i swear to god
I read the book in my junior year of high school and mailed a letter to the author because I was so moved by it. During my freshman year at college, my mom forwarded to me a handwritten response from Stephen Chbosky. Such a treat.
Same! Minus* the letter part
hey, please could you send me the address where you wrote to? does he have a P.O. box or something like that?
and then everyone clapped.
@@itsjust_bones8776 So many flavors and you chose salty.
@@itsjust_bones8776You do understand that most authors like engaging with their readers, right?
I watched this movie when it came out, my brother ended his life that summer, the scene he confesses that his friend died by suicide broke my heart and what Emma Watson's and Ezra Miller's characters did next absolutely destroyed me. It was so kind, so sweet. I related so hard to Charlie in many ways and as pretentious it can be, it's probably my favourite film because I felt seen for the first time.
That's NOT pretentious! Not even close!
My condolences, that must have been incredibly hard for you, but I'm glad that this film provided a comfort to you. 💖🤗
Sorry for your loss, and thanks for sharing your story.
It’s not pretentious at all to relate to a realistic character and story. It would be pretentious if you said something like “ I feel like I have a lot in common with James Bond”
@@2degucitas I'm pretty sure they meant they don't care how pretentious the movie is, not their feelings
I absolutely loved this movie, I really need to read the book. While "we are infinite" may be cheesy it does encapsulate the hope/optimism of our teenage years.
The book is really good
The first time I read the book and got to the "I feel infinite" line, I was like "That's not the words I would have used, but I know exactly what you mean."
Hope? Optimism? You guys had that?
My biggest lesson after high school was that in social situations, most people don't care what you say as long as you say something. I was terrified of talking to most people as a teen, then at about 22/23 I started actually started trying and realized everyone's putting in the effort to find common ground
The moment I connected the most was when Charlie's repressed memories resurfaced.
It happened to me. I was almost kidnapped when I was around 10. At the time I had the stranger danger talk, but didn't really know why strangers are dangerous. I left my school bus and waved to my grandma from the balcony. She saw me enter the building and all I had to do was climb up the stairs and enter my house on the first floor. In that short time...... I was approached by this creep. Luckily the guy tried hiding me in a corner which happened to be right next to my front door. After I escaped it was like it never even happened.
Until I was in my teens and I faced a scary incident where I was stalked when I just went out grocery shopping. I went home, acted normally, went to the bathroom and locked myself in there for an hour or 2, just scrubbing my body clean and crying. I didn't have my dinner that day and just went to sleep. But I couldn't. I kept replaying the moment in my head, trying to find what I could have done and all of a sudden I remembered. I remembered the incident I had as a kid. I was so shocked I got out of my bed and I was just pacing around my room until my legs got tired and I couldnt hold it anymore. I cried and just holding my head and hitting myself because I could not stop crying and I felt like I could no longer breathe.
I just felt scared now that I know and remembered what happened, I knew what happened when I didn't even know it as a child and that scared me.
I became very paranoid and a recluse. I'm trying work on it now since I need to go out and work but, I've never felt safe anywhere except for my home. I was always on edge, even with friends I would find myself checking my surroundings, taking precautions, declining to go anywhere where my parents wasn't informed of.
The awful thing was even though I'm so careful, shit like this continued to happen to me, but less now that I'm an adult that looks like an adult. I had more incidents like this as a child or a teen, and that scares and enraged me at the same time.
Its like a stain that's hard to remove. And I worry if I ever have children, if they were to share the same fate as countless others like me.
Oh my gosh. I am so sorry that you have had to go through so many struggles! Thank you for sharing your story, it is extremely brave of you. I am very happy to hear that you are working through everything and wish you all the positive experiences for the future.
@@nataliedunn5239 thank you for your kind words. I was honestly just sharing my story to get over my fear of talking about it. It has helped me approach my family about it. Even though they have always supported me, it's very alienating when it happens because I could not approach them about it at the time. Now though, things are different and much better.
Sending you so much kindness My Empty Plate. I'm so sorry to hear about the repeated trauma you have experienced. I have diagonosed C-PTSD so everything you mention is so familar.
C-PTSD comes from trauma being recurrent. I can't say for sure that is what you are experiencing but if it is, I hope seeing this video and a few things I'll say now might lightly help.
Jonathan and his wife semi specialise in this area so I would say look at Mended Light's resources. That's not a plug for them but truly there is more not great trauma advice out there then effective so I can say I think their stuff is good.
It is like a stain and the hardest thing to make people understand is, like your candid sharing. If a similar experience hadn't happened later it may not have had the same effect. I like to comfort myself with all the good things I know have been reinforced too. This bit of my life has continued to keep being unfair and unjust. But these bits have got better.
There is also some wonderful youtubers, tiktokers, instagram and Facebook reel mentors out there with words I use on my bad days. You have twice and more survived things people cannot imagine. Those things aren't toxic positivity strengthening character things but instead a sign that you are a person who has had cope and deserves love and compassion wherever they need it.
I can only take a guess that I may be older than you (I remember when Facebook was knee high) but it does become more steady over time and in the years when resources were less, I can say so many people are out there in accessible way to reach out if you need them.
@@myplateisempty.4292 I am so glad to hear that you have been able to open up, particularly to your family, about it all, that is the first and hardest step. I am also so happy to hear that things are better now, that's down to your own hard work and you should be very proud. Sending you so much kindness.
@@Firegen1 thank you for your advice. I've already looked into mended light and I'm inspired by their videos.
I've never really recieved professional help for this, mainly because I never spoke up about it to anyone, so because of it I felt cut off from everyone in my life due to the heavy burden I carried with me.
My parents have always encouraged open communication and were always supportive, but I just felt like I couldn't tell them at the time. (maybe because I've spent so much time repressing them that speaking about it makes it true and something I could no longer avoid doing).
I became a shell of the girl I was. (my parents knew something was wrong and tried helping in their own ways) I've not got diagnosed but I know I was very depressed and anxious. It came to a point when I was thinking of morbid things like self h*rm and su*cide, that I felt that I could not run away anymore.
I got the tip to share my stories from a reddit video and I've been talking about it. I've also kept a journal and artbook as an outlet.
Finally I got enough confidence to just deal with it head on and speak about it to my close friends and family. They have all been so supportive and I changed and found myself again. Although I'm no longer a naive girl anymore, I've become a woman that's survived.
This is why I empathize with people and encourage the people around me to talk to someone, anyone. It could literally save your life like it did mine. When these things happen, sometimes you forget that you even have a voice, you forget about the people that love and are there for you and you feel alone. I dont want anyone to feel alone like I did so I've found a purpose to help people and I'm working towards it.
Now things are much better and I feel like I'm finally living. Sure there are some shortcomings but I've learnt not to run away and I learnt exactly the importance of my friends, family and God. I know others aren't as lucky but I hope to be able to assist someone in need.
(sorry if it's long, I tend to write very long messages😅)
Can we acknowledge how perfect David Bowie's "Heroes" is for this movie? It perfectly encapsulates that feeling, that feeling that you could do anything, at least for one day, and how even if you're not a hero, you're allowed to feel like one every now and then. I know Landslide by Fleetwood Mac was the tunnel song in the book, but as gorgeous as that song is, I don't think it would give me butterflies in this movie quite like "Heroes" does.
I still remember the first time I heard this song. I was coming back from a month long camping trip with my POS father in BC (Didn't know he was a POS yet) when I was 14. We were just outside of Calgary at like 2am and I couldn't sleep because my brother and I were cramped in the backseat of his truck with a bunch of the camping supplies that didn't fit in the box and this song came on the radio. I listened while looking out the window and just being bored. It wasn't like an epiphany moment, the only strong emotion was my feeling that the song slapped, but it stuck with me. I watched Perks when I was like 16, and the song completely took me off guard, I hadn't listened to it since, and there it was, that one song that played on the radio that one time, now in one of the most impactful movies personally I'd ever seen up till then. The song took on a whole new meaning for me, but I think I'll always remember that August night, no matter how mundane it was
I love how introspective "Landslide" is for that scene in the book.
So I understand why the more-bombastic "Heroes" was used in its place for the movie.
I saw this movie in theaters when I was going through a dark depression. I don’t know why or how I ended up there, but it ended up saving my life. Seeing Charlie’s journey start with deep rooted anxiety and ending on such a positive note filled me with intense hope. Definitely one of the best coming of age movies of all time.
Glad you're still here with us! 🤗❤️
See, I feel Charlie’s psychological struggle of “there are good people…like my aunt.”
I always believed that my parents were good people. They guided me through life, raised me, and let me live in their house. That is good, don’t get me wrong, it is. But taking a step back from everything and moving out of my home made me see that I was believing in only their example of what life should be, rather than what it actually was.
My mother is a narcissist who believes everything should be done her way only; and my father is, in his words, “a husband before a father”. That is what I had to realize and it hurt when I had to recognize that. It still hurts.
Believing in a role model is a double edged sword; knowing there is no perfect human being, while at the same time seeing someone be a good person to those around them is reassuring of moral righteousness in the world. Find moral truth in your own life, but don’t live by another’s example unless it is a healthy one.
Your comments about assigning archetypes to different people made me realize that I'd love for you guys to discuss Cabin in the Woods. I felt that was such a great exploration of the horror movie archetypes being shifted around to different people than you'd expect. Every character in the main cast of that movie is set up to be a different trope from classic teen horror movies, but not the trope you'd expect from first glance.
upvoting Cabin in the Woods!
Yes cabin in the woods!
YES!!! This one!!
yeah, that one is great, trashy, funny, very pointed and hilarious critique of stereotyping and moviemaking . . .
Oh hell yes. please do this movie. It's fantastic.
I would love to see you talk more about the manic pixie dream girl and how that relates to women with ADHD. As a woman with adhd, my symptoms have been romanticized to fit this trope.
upcoming - or more generally women with ongoing health needs (chronic mental health, terminal illnesses like cancer, disability) being romanticized as "inspirational" or "charming" for the sake of another character instead of being written as a 3D character
@@hey_virginia writers love to have a love interest who'll die before you ever see the bad side of them. Cancers a great one because they get the chance of survival then it gets snatched away in a dramatic weepy moment.
@@cattherat-ss4kv accurate - my theory is that THIS is part of the reason why so many people irl get freaked out after a few years of marriage and they truly get to know the bad side of their partner, instead of true acceptance and respect
YES. ADHD symptoms and manic pixie dreamgirl stereotypes were sooooo related for me!
YES! Me too. Honestly me and my spouse fit the trope.
We dated in 2011 so peak manic pixie dream girl era. It was romanticized though dating by both of us, but in the end it caused A LOT of issues in our early marriage. I thought I could make him more “fun” and he thought I would eventually grow out of it.
We both had to do a lot of growing up in expectations of each other.
“In some cases the bridge is burned. I hope you get your shit together and that you become a better person and the people around you in your life will be able to trust you. I can’t. I can’t go there and that is the natural consequences of the choices you made and that’s going to have to be a part of the accountability process” is just so powerful and hit me on such a deep level after a lot of horrible personal experiences I’ve had throughout my life. From 21:30-22:30 was just so perfectly spoken and thank you for taking the time to talk about all of this 💗
This movie made me feel so much less alone. Charlie is so much like how I was at that age.
I dealt with PTSD, sexual abuse and the struggles of making friends and making well intentioned mistakes.
He saw his aunt how I saw my abuser.
I watch this movie to remind myself that there's a story after the story after the story.
I watch this movie to help me process my trauma.
The only other person I met that had an idea what I went through hurt me deeply, so to see someone, even a character go through that and handle it like I did made me feel like it was okay to have this trauma and it didn't make me a bad person.
I'm a little surprised that Alan really didn't seem to connect to this movie. Yes, movies like this have been done before, but I feel like they made a real effort to ground this movie and make it feel realistic and not just it's 1990 setting. Everyone felt real and not just there for Charlie's story as Alan seems to indicate. Sam has her own problems and her own journey we see a part of and I think to this day it's Emma's best performance to date.
I don't connect to this movie either, I never did, i was an outcast too but I still made friends and had a decent opinion of myself despite going through troubles, most teens aren't like this and this trope is old fashioned
@@ninjanibba4259 I’m sorry but saying most teens aren’t like this isnt completely true. I wasn’t one of these kids but, I saw them a lot in my school. It depends on your surrounding. This movie was fascinating and raw to me.
@@bellastar1299 that's good for you, just wasn't my experience
@@ninjanibba4259 but surely you might concede that recurring tropes are not bad just because they are recurring in one form or another? most people are not orphans or witness the murder of their parents at a young age but that doesn't make the story of batman less impactful. i think this story was very moving mostly because it is real in a way, maybe not commonplace but very real. his story of hard pain that closes him off to everything and everyone until he really decides to deal with the pain and move on from it. that's very impactful to me.
I connected with the feeling of lonelyness and how lost Charlie feels, especially when his friends go to college and he is stuck in this school without his now best friends. I had some great friends in my class despite being a wallflower, but I felt the loss that would happen when we end our time in school, long before it actually happened. I knew we wouldn't be so close, and I would have to be brave and meet new people. And that we would never ever again have this close bond, because life is changing. That's a part of growing up that I see in this film...
I hadnt truly realized I was a victim of s*xual abuse until those last minutes of this movie. I started questioning why it was effecting me so much and why I could see myself so clearly in what happened to Charlie and the way that pain is just shoved down so deeply its hard to even remember its there and that its the cause of so much. It was the first pull from the well and it felt so weirdly carthartic evem though it made cry so hard
Same :(
Ohhhh, THIIIS
Same D:
Did you know that this story is autobiographical? Charlie = Stephen Chbosky. And yes-Stephen Chbosky is definitely from Pittsburgh. There is no manic pixie girl trope in this story. Sam is real. Emma did a great job, and Logan's performance is devastating and real and infinite.
A trope really comes from jealous men fantasizing about having someone like same in real life but they never had one apparently so they made this trope and it’s less of a significance because they don’t know how to write a good female character
As someone who is wallflower I also attracted not boys but girls who are like Sam who are not sexually abused but abused by mentally and physically by their parents. So I don't know if same experienced people attract each other on friendship level too. They too are extroverted just hiding their pains behind carefree attitudes.
Wow, almost like they explicitly said “she is masking” like one as a protective mechanism or some shit. Crazy.
@@soyalioveeYou don’t know what a trope is.
@@SnailHatan well I know what it is, what I mean with what I said was about the over used tropes with no strategic ideas what do ever
I am 50 years old and have NEVER heard the connection you have made with abused people who often times recreate situations in their lives so that they can feel like they have finally won... Wow... My mind is blown. How often do we blame someone who has struggled with their lives, who might be in a cycle of trying to gain victory over repeated, uninvited abuses they have endured. I have to go pick my jaw up off the door. Thank you for this video...
In therapy school we call this "repetition compulsion". If you see somebody who´s not dumb making the SAME dumb mistake again and again: first guess is that they are doing this. Trying to make the past come out right this time.
Thank you Alan for commenting on representation that more black women desperately deserve. Couldn't have said it better.
Black people got more than enough representation, enough will never be enough apparently, yet forget black is just a skin color and they are human as the rest of humanity
Sad
yes! i think i fell in love with him in that moment! :)
Absolutely
As someone who used to hit myself impulsively when I was emotionally overwhelmed, and never understood why- the explanation at 16:55 was cathartic- all I came here for was interesting movie commentary and I end up having a paradigm shift😭 thank you cinema therapy🥺
I feel the same!
Been there sis. Hope you've found another way to channel these overwhelming thoughts and situations
Agreed. Watching Charlie bang his head on the wall with that explanation - oof. That was one of the ways I hurt myself when I was younger, so it hit super close to home.
As a native Pittsburgher, I love how they used the city and the Fort Pitt Tunnel as a means of symbolizing a new birth for Charlie. Our city is so beautiful, and coming out of that tunnel is breathtaking and I try to never forget that. People don't often think of beauty and Pittsburgh, and I hope someone else got to see it bc of this film.
I always felt ashamed for causing myself pain during a trigger.. but the way you guys explained it is soo true, that’s exactly how it feels. How do you deal with family who is abusive when you are stuck with no where else to go? To set boundaries with those who aim to oppress another to the point that you almost need permission to breathe.
Wait, are you still feeling "stuck with no where else to go"?
If so, where are you? How old are you? There ARE places to go; do you need help finding one?
@@CL-go2jitheres not, most of the time. Housing is almost impossible for those of-age and working let alone a minor with no job. Shelters are maxed out or non existent. Staying is often all you can do.
I was sexually abused by two relatives as a child and I attempted suicide when I was 15 because of it. It shaped my life in a terrible way for a long time, and this book/movie was just one of many things that have helped me learn to love and empower myself again. Along with y’all’s channel.
So, thank you. Really 🙏🏽✨
thank you for sharing a bit of yourself, truly, i’m glad you’re here.
Thank you for sharing that and I’m so sorry that you went through that I’m glad you were able to overcome it and I hope you are doing well ❤🙏
@@babygirllynn2264 thank you so much. 🙏🏽EMDR was incredibly helpful for it
@@evasage14 thank you 🙏🏽
The best therapist I've come across was a man who interrupted me in the middle of my explanation in how my abusive ex had a horrible childhood, as if that explained his behaviour. The therapist stopped me and explained around 19:40. That basically I'm allowed to feel hurt, feel angry and feel unhappy with certain actions done to me no matter of the perpetrators potential terrible life. What a complete eye opener for me.
Wow!
You are allowed to feel. Your needs matter. Express them. I’ve noticed that about myself as well.
@@paulastiles8873 My parents were very similar, they justified their own actions "because that's what happened to us back in the day, wasn't bad it was called discipline" then I realized something; if it risked *them* getting hurt they'd avoid confrontation completely with other people and later on with me when I'd taunt them to hit me harder because I couldn't feel it enough and was chest beating about to fight them back.
this has the same vibe as a scene in this book. charlies dad goes to have a talk with the abusive boyfriends parents. charlie asks about his parents until his dad tells him that not every character flaw can be explained by some childhood trauma. his parents seemed fine, the boyfriend made his own choices.
It's because there's a mental illness in terms of victims turning what they felt on others because it's not fair they have to suffer thus others should feel what they went through. My psychologist told me it's not my fault the previous generations of my family were poor/teen parents and them being abused led to my mother mentally abusing us exactly as her mother did and my grandma doing the same thing. Our dad was the opposite, trying to prevent us from feeling pain despite him having a horrible childhood of abuse. Them being abused sucks but does not excuse them abusing you, too. There's two paths that victims go to- either they become abusers or let the abuse ruin their lives or they use their experiences to better their lives and in essence understand others and try to care for them/prevent them from being abused. I grew up in a household experiencing both the good and bad of victims of abuse. You have a right to feel hurt and angry just as they do to about their abuse but being abused doesn't give you the right to hurt others.
sam is a great example of a MPDG being humanized, breaking the stereotype and showing her dimensions, i love her so much
"We need movies about bland black woman being woken up by manic pixie dream non-binary"
Y-yes... Yes!! We DO need that!!
Sounds like a fun movie to watch... even if its a romantic comedy.
@@LadyCoyKoi honestly, the enbys and black women of this world DESERVE bad romantic comedy movies for themselves!
Honestly, in terms of representations, I want original and new stories. Hollywood is just race swapping and treat it like it's revolutionary, it's not.
@@jacquesdaniels2435 And gender swapping. As if that means equality.
@@jacquesdaniels2435 While that is absolutely true and understandable, I do believe that we need more representation in the mediocre and mainstream movies because that stuff reaches so many people.
Of course I want cool new stories, but I also think it's important to get all minorities their fair share of trashy guilty pleasure films. Sometimes you just want something fun and low-brow with people like yourself, you know?
That sequence of Charlie being triggered then contemplating and planning the 's' word we're not allowed to say on TH-cam was so well acted and produced it took me straight back to the times I've felt the same way. The moment the police broke through the door the floodgates opened and I started sobbing hysterically. I've never heard noises like that come out of me before, it caught me completely off-guard. I'm just so glad I was at home and not in the cinema!
Happened to me at the cinema and I cried in the back of my friends car for the entire ride home. An hours worth of tears 🥲
I mean, you can say 'suicide' in the comments. It's only a concern if you're making a video and don't want to get demonitized
I love Emma’s attempt at an American accent. Her British accent still comes through in various moments, but I think it makes her [movie] “accent” more interesting
My therapist taught me that boundaries are the way I can love you (whoever you are) AND love myself. I think that’s really beautiful.
I’ve always been impressed by the fact that the author wrote the screen play, directed the movie and cast the characters, it is SO much like the book
The only male "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" that I can think of is Jack from Titanic
Yes! Jack definitely fits the bill. Ferris Bueller's another one. Buddy in Elf fits the trope in a lot of ways. Have you seen "Last Christmas"? (we just watched it this week to prep for a Christmas episode...) Henry Golding's character is very manic pixie dream boy.
@@CinemaTherapyShow omg you replied to me, my day is MADE
I haven't seen Last Christmas yet! I need to though, and your next ep is the perfect excuse!
I started a journal. Now I write “Dear Friend” at the beginning of every entry. I can relate to Charlie so much. “I didn’t think anybody noticed me.”
This movie means a lot to me. Now that I think about it, this movie is basically my life. I lost my first best friend at 16 to a car accident. I have BPD. I am a writer. And feel exactly like Charlie. Never seen depression shown so well. The part where he's walking back and forth and keeps rubbing his face... exactly what it's like to have a manic moment.
And you wouldn't believe me, but in 10th grade a senior, the FINEST senior, was into me. It was the best moment of my life and felt like this movie.
I don’t think I agree with Sam being labeled a manic pixie dream girl in this movie. She very much has a fleshed out personality and acts as a three dimensional person, she’s just not the protagonist. We do need more movies that focus on anything but straight white men and boys, but labeling unconventional female side characters as manic pixie dream girls conflates two different issues imo. Sam isn’t just a plot device that changes Charlie, she acts like a real person might and has a semblance of a life outside of Charlie with her own motivations and interests. A manic pixie dream girl exists for the protagonist, to change them, to help them find themselves. While she undoubtedly does that, there’s so much more.
I agree. While they did point out that she's fleshed out and "earned," I don't think the trope even really applies. When they brought it up I was confused, and then when they provided some evidence it wasn't very convincing... She isn't manic. She isn't pixie or quirky (no more than the rest of her friend group). She's maybe a dream girl, but they have an actual relationship based on friendship and knowing each other, so even that doesn't hold up.
"Replacing emotional pain with physical pain." Yes. Exactly. I used to self harm (5 years clean!!) and it was because the wound was something I could "fix", something I could watch heal, when I couldn't do the same for the emotional wounds
I find this really insightful because a book I was reading about truama might’ve not given the whole broad range of reasons self harm. The book made it seem that people self-harm to feel things due to numbed out pain emotionally so it becomes physical. Your example brought out a much more deeper reasoning that I think really grasps that a lot better.
For me, it was like watching the pain leave my body. Like how they used to bleed people out to "heal" sickness. Like as I watched the blood drip down my arm or leg, I was watching and feeling the emotional pain leave my body.
Coming from a life that was quite mired in abuse, as in it felt like everywhere I turned I could see it, the scene where Charlie speaks of it and how overwhelmed he is to see so much pain spoke to me. Like, the world sucks I know, but sometimes it's like you're almost feeling everyone's share of pain and you wish you could change things or turn it around or make it stop or make it that it never happened but you can't and it's overwhelming
I love this book/movie so much
That was the scene that resonated with me the most.
Every time I see someone’s pain, I remember other pain I’ve felt or seen and I apply it to the world and it just feels like too much.
The other aspect I relate to was how him seeing the other peoples pain (his aunt’s) made it hard to demonize them and so instead of being angry at the aunt, he blames himself.
"So much of counseling isn't counseling. It's asking. Especially because people are struggling to organize their thoughts or because they're not giving themselves permission to ask certain questions. And so implicitly give them that,"
This movie captures the emotional weight of reliving trauma so well. The jump cuts, the self-blame. Wanting to find a way out but constantly being swamped by wave after wave of so many emotions: grief, anger, sadness, low self-esteem. Charlie is such an embodiment of hope and empathy, as well as the difficulty in spiraling from not knowing how to help oneself.
“we need more bland black women” - Alan Seawright
Has me DEAD
💀
I hated this movie when I first watched it. Mostly because it triggered me. I didn't realize that was why at the time though. It just felt super depressing. It just brought up too many raw feelings and it hurt a lot to watch. It is still hard to watch. But the ending is encouraging and lovely because that really can be how it is when you start healing from trauma. You start participating in your own life again and letting go of what happened. It's so hard to break out of that black and white thinking too of people either being all good or all bad. People are more complicated than that. And healthy boundaries can be hard to learn, but they're so necessary. I'm still learning as I go, but my life has gotten so much better and happier since the last time I saw this movie at least 5 or more years ago. It's so empowering to realize that you can let go of what you went through and it doesn't have to define your life and make you fearful going forward.
I can never express my gratitude to Stephen Chbosky for writing this story. I have never seen myself more in a character than with Charlie. The book is what made me, at 14, want to become a psychologist, because it was when I realized I wasn’t the only one going through this kind of stuff, and that maybe, even if it’s just by understanding and letting them know they’re seen, maybe I can help. This story is so, so important. We aren’t just crazy, abused, autistic, empathetic, gay, students, siblings… we are everything and we are nothing at all and it’s ok. It’s ok to be infinite.
This movie came out the year my life fell apart: Lost my job, lost my apartment, boyfriend dumped me, all but one of my friends dumped me, and lost my health for about a year. It was brutal but this film was something to hang on to and gave me hope. The old friends never came back, the one friend that stayed got married and we don't talk much anymore. Besides my job, I volunteer a lot and help abused and abandoned animals. It's been 10 years but I'm in a life that is a lot different than I thought I'd be living. And I'm okay with it.
I have the head smashing tendency and I've never told anybody about it because it sounds like such a strange, "crazy" thing to do; this is the first time I've heard anybody talk about it openly and explained it so well. Thanks for relieving that stigma a bit, guys.
My fiancee hits her head with fists when they are having a panic attack, so you're not alone in this. Holding an ice cube in hand usually helps them by feeling kind of pain, but in a safer way.
The "ice cube" idea is good, or hot (not TOO hot, depending on your water heater)/cold water alternating. The "Skills" concept in from DBT (developed for borderline patients, but you do NOT have to have that diagnosis to profit from the skills!) can help find safe, non-harmful ways to get yourself out of panic or flooding. But lots of people bang their heads on things, so don´t feel crazy. Just don´t hurt yourself!
I do that too. I used to do it a lot more when I was more dysphoric, but after transitioning I’ve mostly stopped having that inner pain, which made me want external pain.
This move, especially as a SA survivor, really hit home in a lot of ways. It was beautifully done and, no matter how many times I watch it, I always ball my eyes out.
The start in this video gave me goosebumps, and Logan Lerman is such a good actor. I really adore him in this movie even though I've only seen it once. I feel like crying and give him lots of love, just by watching this video. It's a really good movie!
Stuff you guys did that killed me:
1. 1:11, The introduction.
2. 3:01, The look Jonathan gave Alan while country music's going on.
3. 03:46, "It's Hermione. Krum won't leave her alone".
4. 06:50, Innocent danger, still doesn't work, lmao!
5. 07:36, Jonathan singing "I kissed a girl and I liked it".
6. 08:31, where Jono says "okay", lmao!
7. 10:24, Been there, buddy! *dead*
8. 25:33, Speed, lmao! I actually want to do that!
9. 26:47: Al - infinite, but I was just a sack of meat and I'm gonna die, lmao!
10. 29:34, Jono, lmao!
Feel like crying:
4:33, Why do you feel like this is what you deserve?
Best quote:
3:34, "We accept the love we think we deserve". I was actually disappointed with "We can try", but then you guys explained that it was a mild correction that we can't make others do anything, but try. Thank you!
9:28: Shite, I'm Manic Pixie Dream Girl to my bf, lol.
*Point no.3. I think he said 'Krum' from the Harry Potter franchise.*
@@swarleystinson6733 Oh, I must be deaf, lmao! Correcting it now. Thanks!
@@QueenOfLaughter ✌️
You should do The Parent Trap. I was watching it yesterday and kept telling myself "All of the adults in this movie need serious therapy" lol
Which Version though? Even though the conclusion counts for every installment, I think :D
I was thinking of this movie as well recently. Like what parent gives up one of their children to keep the other😂
@@annachristinanotyet4678 Everyone who watches this channel is a millennial so the 1998 version would be more relatable and nostalgic for most of the audience.
The first time I saw this movie I was about 15 or 16. I was silently dealing with horrible anxiety and panic, along with ADHD and some depression. My extended family disapproved of my mom finally putting me on anxiety medicine, so I felt very ashamed of my mental illness and repressed a lot of my emotions.
This movie was the first time I’d seen a panic attack, anxiety, or depression depicted the way I experienced it. I remember sitting up in my seat and staring wide-eyed in awe at the screen - they had actually captured what I felt like. I felt so seen. I suddenly didn’t feel so alone. This movie gave me hope when I needed it most.
I have avoided this movie, and this youtube video, like the plague. Ever since i read the plot of this movie years ago, i just could never ever bring myself to watch this film. I have repressed memories too, related to a parent. Watching the scene of Charlie remembering and sobbing and hitting his head on the door made me feel so sick to my stomach. Just the mention of this movie makes me shake and shallow-breathed. Watching him with Joan Cusack Therapist was like watching me all over. I cant handle this movie. I relate too hard but it sounds like a beautiful film. I hope one day im strong enough to finally watch.
Once I read about how the author wrote the book based on his personal experince while growing up. The thought that he was the only one that was fealling like Charlie, but he was suprised of how many of us felt like Charlie once. To me also means the world, because as I was growing up and re-reading the book I wasn´t alone, Charlie was by my side. For the time that I was reading it was Charlie and me against the world
I watched this movie with my dad and he cried and said, that this movie reminded him of his youth and how he lost friends and gained friends
"We accept the love we think we deserve." I didn't love this movie, it just wasn't what I love. But this is one of the most memorable lines of any movie. Ever.
It's a very good line.
i think this is (one of) the best 'coming of age' films of the 2010's... it just spoke to me in a way movies rarely have
yes I relate to charlie's past, no I don't want you to feel sorry
For me the moment of the Multiple Charlie’s during the breakdown, it shows his mental state fracturing. As he decompensates and disassociates, we get to see various Charlie’s and he also goes through different memories and even remembers them slightly differently as they look at him with judgement.
It’s done so beautifully.
"You do it long enough and you find your people." More people need to hear that, over and over again. Especially young people still trying to find their place in the world. It can feel so lonely and hopeless, they just need to keep looking because their people are out there, also looking for THEIR people.
I needed this especially today. I’ve felt for so long as if I could never fit anywhere. I still don’t. It does give me hope to keep trying though
I need to hear this because I used to have some people but they've fallen out of my life and now I've been alone for a while and feel like I don't fit in anywhere.
@@williamburk5818 Same. I really don’t know what doesn’t click, I’m a pretty great person. I’ll just keep trying, and you should do too. I’m sure you’re great and eventually you’ll meet people :)!! Don’t lose hope
After being through two rounds of therapy I now know why this film hit me so much. I was always a spectator because I had to behave. Be the good child. Have no needs or wants. And never be infinite.
Oof. Felt. I became the golden child because I was terrified of the punishments my older sisters got.
I love this TH-cam channel so much. I love psychology. I love movies. I love humor. This is so perfect
As someone who survived CSA this film (and the book) wrecked me. I read the book before getting therapy for that trauma and reading Charlie's journey hurt so much. I didn't understand why until I realized I was looking at myself, if I could face what was done to me. It hurt, but it was so healing for me.
There's also a phenomenon where a person that has gone through abuse may unintentionally project things like having low self esteem through body language/subtle cues. People who have abusive traits may subconsciously pick up on vulnerability and proceed to put their best foot forward with the vulnerable person and show few signs of abuse when "courting"(the image the person puts on is actually love bombing and not healthy/genuine courting). A person who has been abused can be swept away by the initial persona and completely miss red flags due to not having a calibration for what is considered warning signs for abuse; especially when abusive behavior has been normalized.
So re-enacting situations to gain control can be a thing, but sometimes it's the opposite. Where an abusive person is the one "seeking" out vulnerable people, and the vulnerable person is tricked by a lovely mask.
Edited to clarify that the lovebombing isn't healthy courting
Love bombing is grooming, not courting.
@@aperta7525
True, I should clarify what I meant with the lovebombing in parenthesis.
I meant to express that the loving image the person is putting on is lovebombing and not actually healthy/genuine courting. I can see how it looks like I was saying that courting= lovebombing 😅
I edited it to more accurately reflect what I wanted to say
I cackled at the Ezra Miller disclaimer.
I hate that I love their characters so much when they make themselves so difficult to stand behind
Same. God, they're a mess, but their acting is SO top notch, especially in this flick.
I know! Most of the professional movie critics praised Ezra's performance specifically, and I felt the same way after watching the film. Now, I feel like I did something wrong after admiring them.
No rule says assholes--or the very mentally unwell--can't be absolutely fantastic at their chosen professions.
Hell look at Tom Cruise. Total Scientology wackadoo, but goddamn the man can act.
Definitely worthy of an Oscar nomination, particularly in the scene, where Patrick opens up to Charlie after the cafeteria fight.
"As long as you´re trying and you´re making this effort you will find your people."
exactly!
My dad's "we are infinite" moment was when he was a middle schooler playing in a high school band and they performed at the senior prom. They had some pyrotechnics (that weren't necessarily allowed) and when they finished their set, the school went insane for him. He still says that that was the best night of his life. That he felt that he was on the top of the world.
instantly saw this notification and said "OH NO" because this is a comfort film of mine that makes me cry so hard every time and i relate a lot to charlie. let's see how much this episode makes me cry
edit: i've had conversations with my mum about my past experiences that she knows i've gone through (losing best friends because they didn't want to be friends anymore, romantic partners that maybe weren't great) and specifically said to her the line "we accept the love we think we deserve". i know it was kinda blown up into a massive 2014 era tumblr quote along with the fault in our stars and other media like that, but it's true. when i was in my last relationship i thought i'd have to end my life in order to get out of it because i just couldn't see an end, because i was so scared of the repercussions of me breaking up with that person on their mental health (but obviously that wouldn't have done me or the other person any favours).
also love the discussion about how more diversity is needed in films like this, because you're both right. i do love this film but there are issues of the entire cast being white and it all kind of just being one demographic lmao.
with charlie's breakdown scene, as soon as the music kicks in i'm always in tears. it's incredible but it's like a kick in the gut because i've had breakdowns like that where i haven't been able to stop thinking about things that happened in my past and it just keeps on coming. i also really related to him saying "there is so much pain, and i don't know how to not notice it" because i'm overwhelmed with stuff that happened to me, and the things happening to the people i love. and i think i too find it hard to blame the people that have hurt me in the past. and like you said, as cheeseball as that moment is, moments like those really do make life worth living. just thank you for covering this movie, it means a lot to me. for a lot of my life (and even now), i've been terrified of making connections, but connections have also been the thing to have saved me.
also love how the surfshark deal link is cinematheray lmao
Have you read the book? I think you would enjoy it too. It takes place in the early 90s. And it was a breakthrough book because it brought attention to the fact that sexual abuse happens to boys too. It didn't have diversity but the point of that was to show that we all have baggage regardless of how we look or our upbringing. At this time the trope that only young women were victims was at an all time high thanks to Lifetime movies so it was a real eye opener reading this as a teen.
@@datheamore6395 yes i have! i can't remember when i first read it but i recently reread it and i'm so glad i did. i'm just so glad that a piece of media like this exists now to bring more light to important issues like that.
As cheesy and cringe tumblr seems now, it served a much needed outlet for thoughts, feelings, and experiences teens were going through then. I didn't have that. No internet. No cellphone. Just depressed me staring at my bedroom wall.
@@datheamore6395 It was sort of the 90's version of 1980's "Ordinary People", a troubled white, upper class family's non coping with tragedy.
@@2degucitas oh definitely! it did have its issues (like any social media site does), but it was incredibly helpful to have at times. and i'm sorry you didn't have that, i hope you're doing better now
I just went through a terrible suicidal period after finally telling my mom about my csa and she called me a liar and said therapy is making me believe things that are not true. I got lost in this headspace of “but they had terrible lives” just like Charlie did. Hearing you guys explain how bad people can have humanity really helped me. I feel the positive memories I have with my abusers actually bring up more pain and suffering than the negative memories because they leave me so confused. They make me feel like I can’t trust any form of love, goodness, and positive memories. I wish more people brought awareness to the nuance of abusive people because I truly feel I’ve almost lost my life multiple times because of the pure HELL it is to constantly question whether or not what happened to me was actually abuse.
Thank you guys so much for being a light in my life💜
I felt this comment in my bones. Both of the pain if having good memories of your abusers and how it constantly makes you call into question everything including whether the abuse was actually really abuse.
my theory is that I think that the walking home scene depicted multiple charlies as he was remembering multiple memories of abuse because although he is the same person now, each individual experience of abuse split him into a distinct sense of reality. from all of the memories he retrieved, each version of him feels like an entirely separate entity that is still connected to who he is. visually it implies the personal dissociation that allows memories to be repressed or suppressed. like it wasn’t charlie #1 who experienced that, it was charlie #2 and charlie #3. disassociating from the versions of himself that experienced the abuse helped him compartmentalize and psychologically survive.
"We draw boundaries not bc we don't love, we draw boundaries, not bc we fail to forgive. We draw boundaries to protect ourselves and bc trust is has to be earned."
Summer, Ramona Flowers, and Clementine aren’t really Manic Pixie Dream Girls. MPDGs are weak writing tools that help the protagonist of a story feel alive and they their self have seemingly no strife in their life. Summer has her own experiences, and makes it clear to Tom that she’s not looking for a relationship but he still perpetuates his thoughts on her. Ramona Flowers is not perfect, and in fact kind of terrible with the way she treated her exes and dumped them, and Scott Pilgrim fails to initially recognize this about her. Clementine already knows she’s a concept to men, attracting them with her colorful hair and quirky behavior, but she’s fully aware that she has her own shit to sort out in her own life, not serve as a tool for some guy to feel better about himself.
In the movie Elizabethtown, Claire is a prime example of MPDG because she helps Drew, a suicidal white guy, overcome his woes through her quirky behavior and larger than life views, while she herself seems to have no internal or external conflicts of her own. She only serves Drew’s needs in the story to help him progress and overcome his conflict, and absolutely nothing more. THAT’S a MPDG.
I mean, I don’t think there’s a sharp delineation regarding the qualifiers. They all are, just on different scale. The main character is the boring dude who pines after their affection/attention to feel alive. That’s a pretty indicative factor they count. Doesn’t mean they’re completely one dimensional or we cant relate to them, on the contrary I think sadly we’re quick to demonize and right them off because we feel uncomfortable admitting we’ve shorted ourselves a lot by decentralizing ourselves in our lives and feeling like tropes for other people perhaps.
Thank you! Was scrolling to see when this would be said
This movie had such an impression on me when I first saw it. When I saw the "we accept the love we think we deserve" scene I burst into tears because I was feeling stuck in a toxic, abusive relationship and it just really made my situation hit home and I began to see the relationship for what it was.
Ive never seen such an accurate portrayal of the devastation and out of body pain and numbness that comes with a panic attack/ breakdown the way this movie does it. Especially because his memories of abuse are cut into it so harshly. Its very realistic and they really did an amazing job of catching that on screen
This movie and the book it’s based on mean so much to me because they’re so relatable. I struggle with depression and anxiety and PTSD, I’ve been sexually abused, I’ve been hospitalized for suicidal thoughts, I was the shy, awkward teen and am still shy and awkward, but more confident after the lessons and connections I’ve learned and made
This movie really meant a lot to me as a survivor of abuse. I struggled greatly with being overly forgiving and letting friends use and treat me like garbage cause I wanted so desperately to have people. I really appreciate the reaction; however, the joke about “bland white male” leads kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Charlie is severely socially stunted from trauma both old and recent. I get that it comes off as boring and unbelievable that Sam and Patrick would befriend him but people with trauma often group together. Idk, I would have just wanted to curl up and die if someone came up to me as a teenager and said that I came off as completely uninteresting because so much of my mental effort went into keeping myself alive everyday.
I think the bland white male was more directed towards the usual depiction of the male lead you get in such films, think 500 days of summer or even Eternal Sunshine...
well said, I felt the exact same way
Thank you! I wasn't sure how to express this.
I would be so hurt if someone called me bland for being quieter because of my trauma.
At least they just call me weird 😂
I relate to your struggle, too. I'm still learning to see the people who hurt me in a more three dimensional perspective.
Understandable, although it’s important to note that not every single depressed teen is suburban, white, and male. And this has been depicted since narrative film first came about.
Yes, if someone came up to you and said that phrase, of course you would be hurt. But also, black communities and minority cultures also should be able to see themselves dealing with emotional trauma without being poverty stricken or made out to be a complete stereotype from head-to-toe.
Though representation has become more prevalent in the last 6-7 years or so, it is still many years from taking a real affect on how we relate to characters in film on a regular basis. Right now we’ve got Zendaya. I’m all ears to more examples bc personally I want to know them 🤣🤣
@@trinity8756 absolutely, that’s a fair point to make and I understand what Alan and Jono were trying to say. I just think it was poorly phrased, or at least carelessly so
I never read this book or saw this movie, but when it was really popular I came across this quote from it. The words carried my heart through a very dark time because it put into words my simultaneous grief and hope: “So, this is my life. And I want you to know that I am both happy and sad and I'm still trying to figure out how that could be.”
Watching this movie and reading this book in middle school messed me up bc I had a lot of repressed memories at the time that I wasn’t aware I was repressing. This movie was certainly a trigger but I’m grateful for it. I felt less alone bc I thought “if there’s a movie about it I can’t be the only one experiencing this” I also felt like I could maybe one day open up and tell ppl what happened, and it could even be beneficial for me to do so. Now I’m 23 and this movie still sticks with me, kind of as a reminder of when mentally everything changed, I now realize it changed for the better.
This is a hard episode for me. I dealt with something in the same vein from my dad- not physical, he made me read the CP he wrote when I was 10. There were a lot of other really messed up things he said or did, and for the longest time I just excused it as "stupid stuff." Like he was too much of an idiot to get what a creep he was being. I stopped speaking to him when I was 15, and when I was 23 my therapist caught me mentioning it and it was one of those record scratch moments you get in therapy. When I realized it was all wrong, the feelings came flooding through. I broke NC when I was 27 for a *week* and had to start it up again, because the feelings came flooding back. And anything he said was still steeped in the discomforting betrayal.
But also, I've lived all over the US. When I left the hellhole environment of devaluing and being labeled The Family B%7@$ from the age of 10, I did research on where to rebuild. And Pittsburgh is where I now call home. That bridge is nothing. I've had commutes to work that are all river and mountains. It's the most wonderful and gorgeous place in the entire world. Pittsburgh is the home I made.
I am sorry this happened to you. And happy that you managed to pull through.
"We accept the love we think we deserve." So that's why I've never had, don't have and never will have a romantic relationship. Not completely sure if it's accurate to describe it as what I think I deserve. But it's what I've chosen at least. And I wager it's better than a dv, financially exploitative, gaslighting or a cheating partner relationship.
Logan made a beautiful performance in this movie. I read the book before the movie came out and I cried a lot with both things. It's one of my favourite movies ever and it has a special place in my soul.
As a survivor of child abuse, this hit home. Thank you so much for the care you put into this movie and this topic♥️
For October coming up, "The Babadook" could be a cool look at grief. Love your channel!
Yeeeeessss!!!
Ohhhh yes!!! Such a great movie and it’s metaphor of grief!
I hope they see this comment. I would love to see this!!!
great idea!!!
I'm surprised they didn't do it already.
Definitely an INFP character. Totally relatable to me in high school. A complete introvert that needed that calm, caring, non judgemental extrovert to invite me into a circle.
introvert need extroverts and vice versa. we balance :)