In the previous video you proposed to use the criminals' bodies for undead labor. I just realised that in this scenario it's fun to think about other resources than just bodies. You also need the energy to put in them, an expert to do this, and some kind of supervision. One solution is to hire a necromancer for government money akin to prison guards. The thing is, in an influx of prisoners, it's relatively easy to build more cells and hire more guards (or to organize a mass execution), but it could be difficult to get more necromancers. It would also be difficult to replace one. And the supervisor basically has an army on their whim, that's a lot of power. The other thing is that skeleton farmers just ain't perpetuum mobile. They probably wouldn't run on food, we need some specialized fuel like mana potions or prayers or some life force drained from other living things. I think for me it stopped sounding like free workforce when I thought about it. Though it definitely could be organized, especially under industrial conditions. It's funny, but I think regular slaves feel economically superior, the only obvious downside being the ethical issue. Maybe society could shift from a widespread use of living slaves to undead ones with industrial revolution. I'm sorry that I'm talking about the last video under this one and without watching it first, but you clearly reminded me of the previous one at the begining and I drifted away because of it. Basically, I'm saying that it's on you ^^
Undead can continue to move without added energy for at least incredibly long amounts of time. Skeletons for labor would wear their bones to uselessness without being treated with protective coatings. So, the cost of maintaining skeletons is in coatings and replacements.
It could be there is a government funded university specifically to train necormancers, and it's filled with propaganda to help ensure loyalty of anyone before they're taught the higher end spells
Two other things need to be addressed if we could speak with the dead. 1- Knowledge of the language of the past would be essential. Which would usually mean that language would either have to stop evolving or that specialist would be needed to speak with the dead of a certain period. 2-Since the dead must always tell what they think is true, crimes like murder would means the destruction of the corpse if seen by the dead, lest they get caught. Also, any state secrets would be known, making the security of the dead an essential duty of the state, which would include the destruction of the corpse of spy possibly. Thanks for your videos, they give more depth to world building.
#2 is fascinating bc it might imply that the oral history actually winds up biased *against* the perspective of the powerful. with access to past kings and generals being limited, historians would have no choice but to ask questions to more ordinary people.
Listening to this sparked a nice scene to create using a society and sending out a chosen person, maiden/priest/volunteer etc that brings food, prayer or incense to the mounds or barrows of the ancestors from the village. A slime portal would be quite fun however a mundane heavy door or blood sacrifice stones would do. Inside decorated like the catacombs of Paris or suitable interior decor. Places for the living priests to conduct rituals to communicate and give offerings, maybe even a bound spirit or lich or other undead that protects and cares for the mound.
I love the idea of playing a young orc warrior on a quest to recover the head of an ancestor who left the homelands to become a mercenary in foreign wars.
Sky burials could work in a DnD setting, the real fear it brings though is from the fact that not only Necromancers have the power to raise the dead. Various Spirits, Fiends and other Undead creatures could stumble upon a convenient collection of corpses, and they could easily find them with their supernatural senses and immunity to most deadly environments. A particularly dogged Necromancer could also cast Locate Object (This would be a wonderful video idea btw) and wonder around aimlessly till they get a trail.
If it says that the corpse needs "a mouth", then couldn't you just sew a pair of lips onto a pile of bones? I admit that it would be grotesque, but this is D&D we're talking about; some absolutely grotesque things exist in this game.
I think the concept and religious practice perhaps of having people study a very specific craft could come into practice if the dead could accurately recall information. People who train their whole lives to developing or advancing something and then having an answer to a complex question be available to those who could cast the spells (mainly why I think it would be a religious practice as they would have the means and the desire to do so) would really change scholarship for the culture that engage in that practice.
The knowledge of the corpse is also influenced by what the people in the area believe the person to have known. Its more tied to the ethereal than the negative/shadow plane.
Very interesting. I had found a similar repository of knowledge when examining the ring of mind shielding. In the item’s description, it says that the soul of the person attuned to it can enter the ring upon their death. If a soul is already inside the rig, it can telepathically communicate with the wearer. For those with enough money to commission one, they could choose to persist and be conversed with for as long as they wished. A culture could arise that prioritizes investing In their afterlife, and keeping rapport with the dead.
As for banks of heads or skulls there are some in fiction actually. I recall similar practice in Wyrms by Orson Scott Card, where heads of useful indyviduals were preserved in jars with aparatus to manualy pump air into their airducts and enable them to speak. It was interesting altho on the verge of technology and magic actually seem to recal something similar in Black Sun setting as well but purerly magical this time. Also note that this might be an issue for fantasy races without actual skulls.
These ideas are fantastically useful and provocative. I am running Strahd next summer and this gave me some great ideas about how to rp the villagers and enhance the creepiness factor. I'll be looking into your catalog for more inspiration as well, thanks for sharing.
Cool video! Maybe every few generations one of the community would be made into a litch to ensure future generations weren't misinterpreting what the dead were saying, or to keep someone around who could communicate with the dead despite shifts in accent, turns of phrase and language.
This is a very interesting concept, history would become a lot clearer in a world like that and the implications and possibilities wild (depending on how readily accessible such spells and preservation materials are, and how great their effect is). Imagine if we could talk directly to people across the world from thousands of years ago from all walks of life, translation spells would likely be needed too, but the impact on technology and culture and how societies would develop when they've been able to continue consulting their ancestors beyond death would be interesting.
I very much like the idea of necromancy being seen not as a perversion of life or similar, but of potential belief systems where undead relatives remain part of the family and lives of the living. In many Asian cultures there are shrines in the home of the loved ones who have passed on generations ago, their names still remembered and prayed for. Is it not potentially a logical evolution of those ideas to have perhaps the body of a loved one or their soul remain with the family, the body set to eternal work so it may continue to provide for the family, while the soul and essence of the person becomes a repository, something that the living can go to for counsel or guidance. It’s simultaneously a utilitarian approach mixed with a moral and religious framework that places the family as the eternal and most important aspect of the system. The goal is to become a wise enough soul or person of note in life that you are often consulted and respected even in your afterlife.
Dude imagine you came a room with all this skulls and with there names as some books with the knowledge they have to make easier to search for them in this "skull library" it would be like a Undead Google search Idea for a name for this place: "The Undead Archives"
This is a very utilitarian view; it takes the emotional impact out of the societal impact. Some people might take exception to grandma being used as an encyclopedia post mortem. I mean we could use real life dead people for leather, meat, fertilizer, and bones for building.... but most human cultures do not because of the emotional impact. I think the "myth of the great man" would only get worse as the person is stagnate in their deeds instead of giving them a chance to fail later. We have historical records of how great men failed and we ignore this king did x because he also conquered that nation and had a 1,000 year stable rule through his line. I do think there might be an issue with cultural stagnation if you rely on speak with dead too much. You never think for yourself if you are constantly getting advice from the great kings of the past and they may be very much a product of their time. Ie, a financial wiz who grew up in feudalism might give you advice that would destabilize a free market because he is trying to return things to feudalism as he thinks it is the best form of economy.
You may be right about the possibility of stagnation or the myth of the great man, I could see those things happening, depending on how the culture approached things. However, I think you miss the point to a degree in talking about the emotional impact. For example, many people in America would be horrified if you left grandma's corpse to rot in the sun and be eaten by vultures, it would have a huge emotional impact. For cultures with sky burials though.. that is them showing respect. You know the morbid jokes about how dead pets just "went to a farm upstate"? Well, in many fantasy settings... that is kind of true of all dead people. They are not unreachable. In DnD a spellcaster with a minor bit of power can let you "long-distance" call a ghost to speak with them. Have a culture that has created rituals and items and has sufficient power, and you can end up with something like the Aereni elves of Eberron. There is no confirmed afterlife for the dead in Eberron, so the Aereni elves store the souls of the dead in special jars, allowing them to create their own perfect, eternal worlds. They can be summoned to speak to other people whenever they are wanted, and some are even made into undead to continue working and living after their body has failed. This isn't emotionally upsetting for these people, because over the many centuries, this is their culture. They are born, raised, die and live in that culture, with these ideas. It is only "utilitarian" when you assume it is a human culture, starting from a baseline of human culture. But that isn't the only place to build cultures in fantasy.
@@Chaosmancer7 generally, cultures that did sky burials are the exception, not the rule, and it generally came from being resource poor or unable to use other means, just like there have been cultures that engaged in catabolism but that generally related being unable to find other food. That is not the norm over the majority of humanity, and most of those cultures were outliers due to specific circumstances. Today, we can use a corpse to salvage the bodies for organs, tissues, and chemicals. We do not really have to speculate for how a human society would react if they found a use for a corpse; we can see it today in how our real world does it. Generally, every culture has laws against designating a grave site (even ones that do not bury dead); if our societies were utilitarian enough to see a body as rotting meat, there would be no laws of this nature. Necromancy is generally a learned skill, so you are still starting a culture from a normal, relatable base till necromancy is introduced, so they would presumably similar tracks for society up to that point. The utility of necromancy would not be treated any different than when a chemist learned how to turn human fat into glycerin.
@rynowatcher You are missing the point. Sure, we know how a human society with thousands of years of history of honoring the dead and no capability of contacting the dead would react. How does a Goblin society whose dead can be contacted by burning Gribble Root on a New Moon react? Do you somehow expect them to react identically to humans? What about an Elven Culture whose souls are reborn in new bodies and are capable of visiting the memories of their past lives every night instead of dreaming? Would they react exactly the same as humans? The point of the Sky Burials was to point out that even human cultures, with the right pressures, developed different social norms and emotional reactions. Therefore, it is perfectly logical to imagine that pressures such "not being human" and "easily capable of contacting the dead in the afterlife" would vastly affect how a culture might react to corpses. And that is without taking human ideas like the mummies buried with pharaohs as guardians and extrapolating actual undead guardians when dealing with Demonic invasions, monster attacks, or magical plagues.
within the setting of my ttrpg which i am working on a novel for, the dark elves preserve the skulls of their ancestors who willingly permit themselves to be bound to their skull and one can take the skull and summon the ancestral ghost who can then provide their wisdom to future generations preserving a very rich ancient culture which has resulted in an unchanging culture since rites, history, religion and culture are perfectly preserved, the dark elves pride themselves on the giant necropolises in their grand cities. it also means that there's a lot more room within the necropolis for skulls, and necromancy is illegal under a death penalty as its seen as a violtion of the natural order. however the dark elves do not preserve every skull rather they would preserve people of unparalleled wisdom, spirituality and knowledge ie. Arch mages, historians and historical people, sages and wise men of their age, the perfect people who would preserve their culture, and each main family would also keep a single bone of valued family members in their own shrines so the spirits of irreplaceable family members can be summoned. at a city grand necropolis a skull would be preserved and placed on their own dedicated alcove and treated with a lot of respect
In my opinion speaking with the dead could be nice element of judiciary - just hire a necromancer/priest and a paladin duo where said necromancer or priest can speak with the dead while an elderly paladin out of combat role could simply ask the spellcaster if those were clean questions and not caster using necromancy for corpse to say what he wanted and then smite a piece of wood or something as proof paladin said the truth and kept divine favor - a literal 100% truthful interrogation of the dead.
The thing I keep thinking about is the taking of heads in war. Forcing the dead to divulge secrets or even the idea of a prisoner exchange after peace is had.
Perhaps even the idea of sending adventurers to an enemy country to retrieve a fallen general's or even a king's head from a enemy countries' chambers...
In our world, seances usually included someone identified as a "medium" whose power was not typically accepted by the religious, at least in western culture. So it could be that the people participating in a seance or other alternative methods for speaking with the dead, may be doing so outside or even in opposition to established religion. I think a "Speak with Spirits" ritual would have been an interesting addition to the Mystic class if 5e had kept that class in some form.
Traditionally Seances where religious in nature Medium's as we tend to think of them where born from the "Spiritism" of the 18th and 19th century. Though they could be used in fantasy. Such Medium's would be more like arcane casters or psionics who are stepping into the realm of what is normally considered divine magic.
One thing about it could be that as there is no soul and the body can only pass on its knowledge then it could be that it cannot lie which could change the information it could provided, particularly if the original person was a prolific liar, but also it could provide misinformation if the person believed the information to be true in life.
I don't like the notion that an "Animating Spirit" is brought out to answer the questions, because it's so poorly-defined, and to be frank I feel that Speak with Dead is far too convenient for something so powerful. I'd run it as a much higher-level spell with a far greater cost to cast, which pulls the very spirit of the deceased from whichever afterlife they're in, albeit briefly. This is, broadly speaking, deeply unnatural and disturbing. You need to command a tremendous degree of magical power in order to pull something like this off, and those kinds of practitioners are far too rare to perform a ritual of this sort freely. Not to mention, dragging a soul from their afterlife isn't always possible, and frequently carries some terrible consequences. I like the way this sort of effect works in the Witcher, where speaking with a single corpse is a big deal, carrying serious ramifications. Additionally, the spirit was in complete agony from being forced into a world in which it does not belong, and was basically coerced into answering to get the whole thing over with.
Imagine a library of of the dead where the you have a few skulls as interfaces points (pun intended) but each section contains specific portions of multiple people. A skill/craft library filled with the hands of master craftsmen. Cartograohers consult with the feet of people to build accurate maps. Etc
Oooo cool spooky ideas! Now I'm gonna have to make my hag's swamp a place of preservation where she can always visit and speak with her former friends and foes
Ive got a setting where people can commune with their ancestors, but only if the ancestor in question took steps to ritually preserve their spirit within a talisman *months or years before* their death, *abd* were wearing that talisman in the moment of their death. Then that talisman becomes much harder but not impossible to destroy and can be used to communicate with them.
In a 5e setting where the PCs are doing lots of exploring and uncovering secrets in another land, then a cooperative Hall of Ancestors for their society would be a really cool resource for story-telling and house-keeping while the characters are away; the ancestors with bodies could be embalmed and be helpful during the day and in open spaced and the ancestors with just a skeleton could be helpful at night and in closed spaces.
In my setting there is a culture that believes that the soul is trapped by the body. Only by its degradation can the spirit move on, or follow whatever the fate of the corpse: sky burials allow ancestors to reincarnate as animals or plants; the body may be buried under a house so that the spirit can watch over its inhabitants; or one might carry a companion's mummified sword arm for aid in battle, the skull for guidance whether or not speak with dead is known, or any other distinguishing body part. Among those of this culture, last rites often include preparation of the flesh for consumption by those truly closest to the deceased, seasoned and cooked to the late subject's own specifications.
I'm not sure if I've mentioned this before, but many of these ideas come down to the availability of spellcasters. Its very hard to develop a speak with dead funerary cult if there's maybe 1 in 1000 clerics that can do it. I think that's a super important question anytime we discuss world building; what's the classed characters saturation. 5e in particular right now generally supposes that there are extremely few "classed" characters if I remember correctly. Sorry for rambling, but to sum up - none of the cultural ideas we've been talking about would happen without a large number of capable clerics and wizards. Otherwise we see more typical real world rituals develop.
There are clues baked into the books that indicate how rare spellcasters are. For instance, here is a statement from the Player’s Handbook section on expenses: “Hiring someone to cast a relatively common spell of 1st or 2nd level, such as cure wounds or identify, is easy enough in a city or town, and might cost 10 to 50 gold pieces (plus the cost of any expensive material components). Finding someone able and willing to cast a higher-level spell might involve traveling to a large city, perhaps one with a university or prominent temple.” From both the level of local availability and from the prices required, we can get a fair idea of how present spellcasters are in a default world.
In my world necromancy is legal on the grounds that the individual being raised gives written consent beforehand and the individual was not currently in the penal system. The is also a lich that runs the general store in one town (he's my favorite NPC)
I really like this video! It's more than 10 times more useful than the previous one! It's really useful if you want interesting ideas for a world where people don't think necromancy is evil. Because it doesn't need to be. I think people can very easily overcome their pre-dispositions about the dead if it stands to their advantage. The reverse stands true as well. Anyway, this has given me some good ideas for my own stories! I really hope you do more videos on this topic, because I think there's a lot more possibilities out there(Like Vampires, Liches, (Especially)Naturally occuring ghosts, zombies and other undead, etc.)!
In a world where the dead can rise as zombies, the only dead people who wouldn't have their bodies immediately burned and destroyed are those involved in ongoing investigations, and those with incredible importance. And for the latter, they would need to be entombed in special consecrated ground to prevent them from rising again, and that ground would need to be constantly guarded. This would be very expensive. Maybe keeping just the heads around works if you only have a few limited types of undead in your world, but... there are plenty of head-only undead.
about the speak with dead for me works only with the body. Idk but there's cultures in The Americas that consider the body maintains some part of the soul and yo can bring them food, music and speak with them as they're still alived.
I would say that perhaps just implying speak with dead needs something from the person your speaking too, and what kind of dead your speaking too really is informed by the condition of their body. If alls you got is grandmas ashes, your going to be speaking to a ghost for instance. Good video!
I really like the jaw removal but applied differently: a culture that preserves bodies or heads as something to talk to using that practice as basically censorship. Rows of heads line the walls of the burial chamber, all mummified, most intact. Under each head is a name plaque that lists their name, what they were known for in their community, and their date of birth and death. Some have had their jaws removed, and the name plaque under one such head explains the now-nameless deceased was punished with eternal silence for inciting rebellion. Another jawless head has a plaque mourning the death of a beloved father unjustly silenced, meaning he was murdered and the killer removed the jaw. Somewhere in these chambers sits the head of said killer, executed and with its jaw removed for the crime of unlawful silencing. There would be cases of people with grudges and without scruples breaking into these chambers to remove jaws from heads, possibly targeting someone they hate, or doing it indiscriminately for larger-scale reasons.
Head might be an issue if body is to actually speak. Speaking requires lungs, vocal cords tongue, lips and so on. And if it does not why worry about moth at all. Brain being data storage device of the body should be more iimportant. And this decomposes very fast.
Corpse with soul dragged from the aether, one that you need to inquire from due to important information it may have? Utmost reverence for dragging them from peace for a mortal question they might not even recall. Corpse with life energy animating it? Dunno, probably like you would a dog but honestly who talks to their power tools?
I just re-read the spell (1E) and I did not see anywhere a compulsion for the dead to answer honestly or completely. With an oppositely aligned recipient of the spell, would they have to tell the truth, or even the truth as they know it? Depth of knowledge on a particular subject as well as perspective could render the whole process mute. What if they were possessed, who are you really talking to? Hmmm.
I disagree with the idea that more voices would make great men lesser. What make great men great is the fact they were able to shape fate. Shaping the fate of smaller men to have them follow the great man is one major example.
This is why I didn’t like how they handled the professors portraits in Hogwarts Legacy. They’re simply an imprint of their will/intelligence at the time they created the portraits. In the past. They should NOT have been able to alter their thinking based on Ranrok’s rebellion in the current time.
In the previous video you proposed to use the criminals' bodies for undead labor. I just realised that in this scenario it's fun to think about other resources than just bodies. You also need the energy to put in them, an expert to do this, and some kind of supervision. One solution is to hire a necromancer for government money akin to prison guards. The thing is, in an influx of prisoners, it's relatively easy to build more cells and hire more guards (or to organize a mass execution), but it could be difficult to get more necromancers. It would also be difficult to replace one. And the supervisor basically has an army on their whim, that's a lot of power. The other thing is that skeleton farmers just ain't perpetuum mobile. They probably wouldn't run on food, we need some specialized fuel like mana potions or prayers or some life force drained from other living things. I think for me it stopped sounding like free workforce when I thought about it. Though it definitely could be organized, especially under industrial conditions. It's funny, but I think regular slaves feel economically superior, the only obvious downside being the ethical issue. Maybe society could shift from a widespread use of living slaves to undead ones with industrial revolution. I'm sorry that I'm talking about the last video under this one and without watching it first, but you clearly reminded me of the previous one at the begining and I drifted away because of it. Basically, I'm saying that it's on you ^^
Undead can continue to move without added energy for at least incredibly long amounts of time. Skeletons for labor would wear their bones to uselessness without being treated with protective coatings. So, the cost of maintaining skeletons is in coatings and replacements.
It could be there is a government funded university specifically to train necormancers, and it's filled with propaganda to help ensure loyalty of anyone before they're taught the higher end spells
Two other things need to be addressed if we could speak with the dead.
1- Knowledge of the language of the past would be essential. Which would usually mean that language would either have to stop evolving or that specialist would be needed to speak with the dead of a certain period.
2-Since the dead must always tell what they think is true, crimes like murder would means the destruction of the corpse if seen by the dead, lest they get caught. Also, any state secrets would be known, making the security of the dead an essential duty of the state, which would include the destruction of the corpse of spy possibly.
Thanks for your videos, they give more depth to world building.
#2 is fascinating bc it might imply that the oral history actually winds up biased *against* the perspective of the powerful. with access to past kings and generals being limited, historians would have no choice but to ask questions to more ordinary people.
Listening to this sparked a nice scene to create using a society and sending out a chosen person, maiden/priest/volunteer etc that brings food, prayer or incense to the mounds or barrows of the ancestors from the village.
A slime portal would be quite fun however a mundane heavy door or blood sacrifice stones would do.
Inside decorated like the catacombs of Paris or suitable interior decor.
Places for the living priests to conduct rituals to communicate and give offerings, maybe even a bound spirit or lich or other undead that protects and cares for the mound.
I love the idea of playing a young orc warrior on a quest to recover the head of an ancestor who left the homelands to become a mercenary in foreign wars.
Sky burials could work in a DnD setting, the real fear it brings though is from the fact that not only Necromancers have the power to raise the dead.
Various Spirits, Fiends and other Undead creatures could stumble upon a convenient collection of corpses, and they could easily find them with their supernatural senses and immunity to most deadly environments.
A particularly dogged Necromancer could also cast Locate Object (This would be a wonderful video idea btw) and wonder around aimlessly till they get a trail.
Couldn't there be wards to prevent divination or messing from beyond like protection from good and evil?
If it says that the corpse needs "a mouth", then couldn't you just sew a pair of lips onto a pile of bones? I admit that it would be grotesque, but this is D&D we're talking about; some absolutely grotesque things exist in this game.
I think the concept and religious practice perhaps of having people study a very specific craft could come into practice if the dead could accurately recall information.
People who train their whole lives to developing or advancing something and then having an answer to a complex question be available to those who could cast the spells (mainly why I think it would be a religious practice as they would have the means and the desire to do so) would really change scholarship for the culture that engage in that practice.
The knowledge of the corpse is also influenced by what the people in the area believe the person to have known. Its more tied to the ethereal than the negative/shadow plane.
Thanks for convincing me to put a preserved jarred head library in my game
Very interesting. I had found a similar repository of knowledge when examining the ring of mind shielding. In the item’s description, it says that the soul of the person attuned to it can enter the ring upon their death. If a soul is already inside the rig, it can telepathically communicate with the wearer. For those with enough money to commission one, they could choose to persist and be conversed with for as long as they wished. A culture could arise that prioritizes investing In their afterlife, and keeping rapport with the dead.
As for banks of heads or skulls there are some in fiction actually. I recall similar practice in Wyrms by Orson Scott Card, where heads of useful indyviduals were preserved in jars with aparatus to manualy pump air into their airducts and enable them to speak. It was interesting altho on the verge of technology and magic actually seem to recal something similar in Black Sun setting as well but purerly magical this time. Also note that this might be an issue for fantasy races without actual skulls.
These ideas are fantastically useful and provocative. I am running Strahd next summer and this gave me some great ideas about how to rp the villagers and enhance the creepiness factor. I'll be looking into your catalog for more inspiration as well, thanks for sharing.
Cool video! Maybe every few generations one of the community would be made into a litch to ensure future generations weren't misinterpreting what the dead were saying, or to keep someone around who could communicate with the dead despite shifts in accent, turns of phrase and language.
This is a very interesting concept, history would become a lot clearer in a world like that and the implications and possibilities wild (depending on how readily accessible such spells and preservation materials are, and how great their effect is). Imagine if we could talk directly to people across the world from thousands of years ago from all walks of life, translation spells would likely be needed too, but the impact on technology and culture and how societies would develop when they've been able to continue consulting their ancestors beyond death would be interesting.
I very much like the idea of necromancy being seen not as a perversion of life or similar, but of potential belief systems where undead relatives remain part of the family and lives of the living.
In many Asian cultures there are shrines in the home of the loved ones who have passed on generations ago, their names still remembered and prayed for.
Is it not potentially a logical evolution of those ideas to have perhaps the body of a loved one or their soul remain with the family, the body set to eternal work so it may continue to provide for the family, while the soul and essence of the person becomes a repository, something that the living can go to for counsel or guidance.
It’s simultaneously a utilitarian approach mixed with a moral and religious framework that places the family as the eternal and most important aspect of the system. The goal is to become a wise enough soul or person of note in life that you are often consulted and respected even in your afterlife.
Dude imagine you came a room with all this skulls and with there names as some books with the knowledge they have to make easier to search for them in this "skull library" it would be like a Undead Google search
Idea for a name for this place: "The Undead Archives"
This is a very utilitarian view; it takes the emotional impact out of the societal impact. Some people might take exception to grandma being used as an encyclopedia post mortem. I mean we could use real life dead people for leather, meat, fertilizer, and bones for building.... but most human cultures do not because of the emotional impact.
I think the "myth of the great man" would only get worse as the person is stagnate in their deeds instead of giving them a chance to fail later. We have historical records of how great men failed and we ignore this king did x because he also conquered that nation and had a 1,000 year stable rule through his line.
I do think there might be an issue with cultural stagnation if you rely on speak with dead too much. You never think for yourself if you are constantly getting advice from the great kings of the past and they may be very much a product of their time. Ie, a financial wiz who grew up in feudalism might give you advice that would destabilize a free market because he is trying to return things to feudalism as he thinks it is the best form of economy.
You may be right about the possibility of stagnation or the myth of the great man, I could see those things happening, depending on how the culture approached things.
However, I think you miss the point to a degree in talking about the emotional impact. For example, many people in America would be horrified if you left grandma's corpse to rot in the sun and be eaten by vultures, it would have a huge emotional impact. For cultures with sky burials though.. that is them showing respect.
You know the morbid jokes about how dead pets just "went to a farm upstate"? Well, in many fantasy settings... that is kind of true of all dead people. They are not unreachable. In DnD a spellcaster with a minor bit of power can let you "long-distance" call a ghost to speak with them. Have a culture that has created rituals and items and has sufficient power, and you can end up with something like the Aereni elves of Eberron. There is no confirmed afterlife for the dead in Eberron, so the Aereni elves store the souls of the dead in special jars, allowing them to create their own perfect, eternal worlds. They can be summoned to speak to other people whenever they are wanted, and some are even made into undead to continue working and living after their body has failed.
This isn't emotionally upsetting for these people, because over the many centuries, this is their culture. They are born, raised, die and live in that culture, with these ideas. It is only "utilitarian" when you assume it is a human culture, starting from a baseline of human culture. But that isn't the only place to build cultures in fantasy.
@@Chaosmancer7 generally, cultures that did sky burials are the exception, not the rule, and it generally came from being resource poor or unable to use other means, just like there have been cultures that engaged in catabolism but that generally related being unable to find other food. That is not the norm over the majority of humanity, and most of those cultures were outliers due to specific circumstances.
Today, we can use a corpse to salvage the bodies for organs, tissues, and chemicals. We do not really have to speculate for how a human society would react if they found a use for a corpse; we can see it today in how our real world does it. Generally, every culture has laws against designating a grave site (even ones that do not bury dead); if our societies were utilitarian enough to see a body as rotting meat, there would be no laws of this nature.
Necromancy is generally a learned skill, so you are still starting a culture from a normal, relatable base till necromancy is introduced, so they would presumably similar tracks for society up to that point. The utility of necromancy would not be treated any different than when a chemist learned how to turn human fat into glycerin.
@rynowatcher You are missing the point.
Sure, we know how a human society with thousands of years of history of honoring the dead and no capability of contacting the dead would react.
How does a Goblin society whose dead can be contacted by burning Gribble Root on a New Moon react? Do you somehow expect them to react identically to humans?
What about an Elven Culture whose souls are reborn in new bodies and are capable of visiting the memories of their past lives every night instead of dreaming? Would they react exactly the same as humans?
The point of the Sky Burials was to point out that even human cultures, with the right pressures, developed different social norms and emotional reactions. Therefore, it is perfectly logical to imagine that pressures such "not being human" and "easily capable of contacting the dead in the afterlife" would vastly affect how a culture might react to corpses. And that is without taking human ideas like the mummies buried with pharaohs as guardians and extrapolating actual undead guardians when dealing with Demonic invasions, monster attacks, or magical plagues.
within the setting of my ttrpg which i am working on a novel for, the dark elves preserve the skulls of their ancestors who willingly permit themselves to be bound to their skull and one can take the skull and summon the ancestral ghost who can then provide their wisdom to future generations preserving a very rich ancient culture which has resulted in an unchanging culture since rites, history, religion and culture are perfectly preserved, the dark elves pride themselves on the giant necropolises in their grand cities. it also means that there's a lot more room within the necropolis for skulls, and necromancy is illegal under a death penalty as its seen as a violtion of the natural order. however the dark elves do not preserve every skull rather they would preserve people of unparalleled wisdom, spirituality and knowledge ie. Arch mages, historians and historical people, sages and wise men of their age, the perfect people who would preserve their culture, and each main family would also keep a single bone of valued family members in their own shrines so the spirits of irreplaceable family members can be summoned. at a city grand necropolis a skull would be preserved and placed on their own dedicated alcove and treated with a lot of respect
In my opinion speaking with the dead could be nice element of judiciary - just hire a necromancer/priest and a paladin duo where said necromancer or priest can speak with the dead while an elderly paladin out of combat role could simply ask the spellcaster if those were clean questions and not caster using necromancy for corpse to say what he wanted and then smite a piece of wood or something as proof paladin said the truth and kept divine favor - a literal 100% truthful interrogation of the dead.
The thing I keep thinking about is the taking of heads in war. Forcing the dead to divulge secrets or even the idea of a prisoner exchange after peace is had.
Perhaps even the idea of sending adventurers to an enemy country to retrieve a fallen general's or even a king's head from a enemy countries' chambers...
In our world, seances usually included someone identified as a "medium" whose power was not typically accepted by the religious, at least in western culture. So it could be that the people participating in a seance or other alternative methods for speaking with the dead, may be doing so outside or even in opposition to established religion. I think a "Speak with Spirits" ritual would have been an interesting addition to the Mystic class if 5e had kept that class in some form.
Traditionally Seances where religious in nature Medium's as we tend to think of them where born from the "Spiritism" of the 18th and 19th century.
Though they could be used in fantasy. Such Medium's would be more like arcane casters or psionics who are stepping into the realm of what is normally considered divine magic.
One thing about it could be that as there is no soul and the body can only pass on its knowledge then it could be that it cannot lie which could change the information it could provided, particularly if the original person was a prolific liar, but also it could provide misinformation if the person believed the information to be true in life.
Always enjoy the interesting history and real world bits you pull from!
I don't like the notion that an "Animating Spirit" is brought out to answer the questions, because it's so poorly-defined, and to be frank I feel that Speak with Dead is far too convenient for something so powerful. I'd run it as a much higher-level spell with a far greater cost to cast, which pulls the very spirit of the deceased from whichever afterlife they're in, albeit briefly. This is, broadly speaking, deeply unnatural and disturbing. You need to command a tremendous degree of magical power in order to pull something like this off, and those kinds of practitioners are far too rare to perform a ritual of this sort freely. Not to mention, dragging a soul from their afterlife isn't always possible, and frequently carries some terrible consequences.
I like the way this sort of effect works in the Witcher, where speaking with a single corpse is a big deal, carrying serious ramifications. Additionally, the spirit was in complete agony from being forced into a world in which it does not belong, and was basically coerced into answering to get the whole thing over with.
Imagine a library of of the dead where the you have a few skulls as interfaces points (pun intended) but each section contains specific portions of multiple people. A skill/craft library filled with the hands of master craftsmen. Cartograohers consult with the feet of people to build accurate maps. Etc
Creepy. I love it.
Oooo cool spooky ideas! Now I'm gonna have to make my hag's swamp a place of preservation where she can always visit and speak with her former friends and foes
Ive got a setting where people can commune with their ancestors, but only if the ancestor in question took steps to ritually preserve their spirit within a talisman *months or years before* their death, *abd* were wearing that talisman in the moment of their death.
Then that talisman becomes much harder but not impossible to destroy and can be used to communicate with them.
Haha like the Dunmer from Tes aka elder scrolls darkelfs big into ancestor worship
In a 5e setting where the PCs are doing lots of exploring and uncovering secrets in another land, then a cooperative Hall of Ancestors for their society would be a really cool resource for story-telling and house-keeping while the characters are away; the ancestors with bodies could be embalmed and be helpful during the day and in open spaced and the ancestors with just a skeleton could be helpful at night and in closed spaces.
In my setting there is a culture that believes that the soul is trapped by the body. Only by its degradation can the spirit move on, or follow whatever the fate of the corpse: sky burials allow ancestors to reincarnate as animals or plants; the body may be buried under a house so that the spirit can watch over its inhabitants; or one might carry a companion's mummified sword arm for aid in battle, the skull for guidance whether or not speak with dead is known, or any other distinguishing body part. Among those of this culture, last rites often include preparation of the flesh for consumption by those truly closest to the deceased, seasoned and cooked to the late subject's own specifications.
I'm not sure if I've mentioned this before, but many of these ideas come down to the availability of spellcasters. Its very hard to develop a speak with dead funerary cult if there's maybe 1 in 1000 clerics that can do it. I think that's a super important question anytime we discuss world building; what's the classed characters saturation. 5e in particular right now generally supposes that there are extremely few "classed" characters if I remember correctly. Sorry for rambling, but to sum up - none of the cultural ideas we've been talking about would happen without a large number of capable clerics and wizards. Otherwise we see more typical real world rituals develop.
There are clues baked into the books that indicate how rare spellcasters are. For instance, here is a statement from the Player’s Handbook section on expenses: “Hiring someone to cast a relatively common spell of 1st or 2nd level, such as cure wounds or identify, is easy enough in a city or town, and might cost 10 to 50 gold pieces (plus the cost of any expensive material components). Finding someone able and willing to cast a higher-level spell might involve traveling to a large city, perhaps one with a university or prominent temple.” From both the level of local availability and from the prices required, we can get a fair idea of how present spellcasters are in a default world.
In my world necromancy is legal on the grounds that the individual being raised gives written consent beforehand and the individual was not currently in the penal system. The is also a lich that runs the general store in one town (he's my favorite NPC)
I really like this video! It's more than 10 times more useful than the previous one! It's really useful if you want interesting ideas for a world where people don't think necromancy is evil. Because it doesn't need to be. I think people can very easily overcome their pre-dispositions about the dead if it stands to their advantage. The reverse stands true as well. Anyway, this has given me some good ideas for my own stories! I really hope you do more videos on this topic, because I think there's a lot more possibilities out there(Like Vampires, Liches, (Especially)Naturally occuring ghosts, zombies and other undead, etc.)!
In a world where the dead can rise as zombies, the only dead people who wouldn't have their bodies immediately burned and destroyed are those involved in ongoing investigations, and those with incredible importance. And for the latter, they would need to be entombed in special consecrated ground to prevent them from rising again, and that ground would need to be constantly guarded. This would be very expensive. Maybe keeping just the heads around works if you only have a few limited types of undead in your world, but... there are plenty of head-only undead.
I love your enthusiasm
about the speak with dead for me works only with the body. Idk but there's cultures in The Americas that consider the body maintains some part of the soul and yo can bring them food, music and speak with them as they're still alived.
I would say that perhaps just implying speak with dead needs something from the person your speaking too, and what kind of dead your speaking too really is informed by the condition of their body. If alls you got is grandmas ashes, your going to be speaking to a ghost for instance. Good video!
I really like the jaw removal but applied differently: a culture that preserves bodies or heads as something to talk to using that practice as basically censorship. Rows of heads line the walls of the burial chamber, all mummified, most intact. Under each head is a name plaque that lists their name, what they were known for in their community, and their date of birth and death. Some have had their jaws removed, and the name plaque under one such head explains the now-nameless deceased was punished with eternal silence for inciting rebellion. Another jawless head has a plaque mourning the death of a beloved father unjustly silenced, meaning he was murdered and the killer removed the jaw. Somewhere in these chambers sits the head of said killer, executed and with its jaw removed for the crime of unlawful silencing.
There would be cases of people with grudges and without scruples breaking into these chambers to remove jaws from heads, possibly targeting someone they hate, or doing it indiscriminately for larger-scale reasons.
Head might be an issue if body is to actually speak. Speaking requires lungs, vocal cords tongue, lips and so on. And if it does not why worry about moth at all. Brain being data storage device of the body should be more iimportant. And this decomposes very fast.
Explosive Runes would be a nice anti-speaking dead technique. Easy to integrate into a ritual.
only one problem each dead creature can only be targeted by Speak with Dead once, so after that one time is used the head is kind of useless
Corpse with soul dragged from the aether, one that you need to inquire from due to important information it may have? Utmost reverence for dragging them from peace for a mortal question they might not even recall.
Corpse with life energy animating it? Dunno, probably like you would a dog but honestly who talks to their power tools?
This kind of culture would almost certainly not occur in species that reincarnate such as elves or drow
I just re-read the spell (1E) and I did not see anywhere a compulsion for the dead to answer honestly or completely. With an oppositely aligned recipient of the spell, would they have to tell the truth, or even the truth as they know it? Depth of knowledge on a particular subject as well as perspective could render the whole process mute. What if they were possessed, who are you really talking to? Hmmm.
I disagree with the idea that more voices would make great men lesser. What make great men great is the fact they were able to shape fate. Shaping the fate of smaller men to have them follow the great man is one major example.
This is why I didn’t like how they handled the professors portraits in Hogwarts Legacy. They’re simply an imprint of their will/intelligence at the time they created the portraits. In the past. They should NOT have been able to alter their thinking based on Ranrok’s rebellion in the current time.
Begging you to replace your mic/recording setup
bro i realy like your content, but your microphone is to quiet
I have made everything as quiet as possible so that I could hear him (max volume btw)