Yep. F1 created this 'problem.' Other than the current bad name, the VCARB team is fine. They will probably have a good 2024 season. Would like to see Danny Ricc back to his old form.
my main problem is how the team seems to have and identity crisis every few years. another problem is that red bull has so many opportunities to get drivers. their own academy, alpha tauri and alpha tauro's academy. (first btw)
I think RedBull are just preparing to sell the team in the near future. This rebranding and helping Toro Rosso (nope, ain't calling it RB or whatever) with their 2024 car just seems like a massive marketing stunt to attract someone who's interested in buying a team. But with that in mind, Red Bull may need to be quick with this as I think FIA will inevitably introduce some rule or something, that prohibits one company owning multiple teams. And that would mean having to sell the team under its (supposed) value. . EDIT: I've written this comment after about three minutes of the video and you're talking about similar things at the end, so... yeah...!
I think we are definitely on the same page. Red Bull don't want the hassle of a second team anymore. They don't need to be picky with drivers anymore because they have established themselves as a top tier team
The first problem is there name and second is the team being really messed to be honest. I think so now red bull's name be mastercard Microsoft redbull oracle racing.
Do you any follow up to this video since making it? I agree with your assessment as being unfair to have a team so closely related to Red Bull Sr team they is overtly being dubbed junior with no chance to ever compete at the highest level while being a roadblock to other teams. With changes coming from moving from Honda to their own Power Units next year and rules changes in 2026 will there be a change in ownership or rules by FIA? I would like to see a follow up to your video and possibly an assessment on the current lack if performance of Yuki and Danny are more to the car vs their skills that have been very noticeable throughout the 2024 season. Thank you
Even if they ban joint teams with the next Concord agreement, RB and VCARB will be grandfathered in. Regardless of whether RB wants to sell or not, it will always be in their interest to present as not keen to sell because it will increase the value of the 2nd team. With 20% of the negotiating power they aren’t going to just give that up in the Concord negotiations without getting some major concessions in their favor.
That is the thing with sponsors and brand identity. F1 will likely always have this issue with one team like this and the infamous rich energy. Every team has a sponsor within the teams actual name like petronas or cognizant etc... but the team still has it's own identity. This on the otherhand feels like craming as much sponsors in a team name as much as we can. The fact of some would say this is a 2nd red bull doesn't bother me as been going for years and other top teams has arragements but still act independently to raise junior drivers and build them up to a possible top seat in the future. That part is crucial for F1 since the whole F2 to F1 transistion is a nightmare and a topic seperatly on it's own. Which funny enough if F1 allows another team or two as think all the tracks can host 24-26 F1 cars.
Would the logical extension of that then be that each team has to design and build their own engine. Would the customer teams not give the manufacturer teams potentially advantages in terms of extra data points to determine the efficiency of the engine designs? ]
To be fair to RB, Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri won as much Grand Prixs since 2021 as Haas, McLaren, Aston Martin, Alfa Romeo/Stake/Sauber, Alpine/Renault and Williams COMBINED. So maybe not that uncompetitive. It's still a more competitive team then most. And they also won it with Seb, even before the Red Bull team did. I am against a 2nd team though. but give to caesar what belongs to caesar
They found a way to create a possible loophole in the cost cap regulations, so maybe the other teams should do the same, and quit whining about it. You still have Norris, quit crying Zak. As far as the change to the branding creating a "nostalgic disappointment", well I long for the days of normally asperated V-10, and the scream they had, it's not going to happen, I accept it. I agree sell the team to Andretti. Then we can watch Zak and the girls cry a river over that. RB needs to hand out boxes of tissues to the other principals.
L take, u can't say that the VCARB team isn't doing anything for the sport when you have teams like Haas and Sauber (yes they will become Audi in 2 years but since 2018, they've done nothing to add value for the sport). AT meanwhile, despite being a sister team has got drivers on the podium and a even a win, whilst having multiple drivers on the grid because of them. If anything, the rebrand is a good thing, because they can move from being a back marker sister team to it's own brand that's trying to be at the front of the grid. Yes the controversy of potential sharing if info is always a possibility, but realistically, with the amount of scrutiny in f1 by the fia, whilst not impossible, it's not reallistically viable. The fact that teams can't run endless wind tunnel simulations because they are monitored makes it's next to impossible to share info without raising some kind of red flags. Red bull would rather have 1 team at the front and not break any rules than to share info to have 2 teams at the front and risk being thrown out. While many are arguing that f1 have allowed RB to have 2 teams instead of allowing andretti, keep in mind that this is on f1 (not even the fia) and the other teams. Blaming RB for it is not really fair.
"The risk of knowledge transfer" would be cheating. I really don't understand why people suddenly make such a fuss since say 2 years about TR/AT/VCARB. When it comes to the two seperate teams RB has always played by the rules, there is to much at stake (no not the stake team) to be even trying to do that. If they tried and would get caught, they would be booted from the sport or being disqualified with both teams at the bare minimum. That is not something teams are willing to risk. That part is an absolute nothing burger. Complain about the name, the loss of Minardi's history (not the first and certainly not the last team that happened to... where is the Tyrell legacy? BAR? Jordan? nobody whines about that but " tHe lEgAcY oF MInArDi wAaAh" is somehow an issue.) or the re-use of the STR14 livery but don't pretend RB is somehow plotting devious things using their former junior team.
Its not necessarily cheating for instance whilst McLaren and Williams have just invested in brand new simulators, because of the move RB is now allowed to use Red Bulls. So now RB don't need a new sim and can use that money elsewhere. With the cost cap that is a massive advantage to have that other teams don't.
@@GoogleGebruiker Yes, stretching the boundries of the rules is something all teams do. What is talked about here is not stretching the boundry of the rule but doing things explicity banned aka cheating.
Don't forget F1 basically begged redbull to buy Minardi back then
Good point 👍
Yep. F1 created this 'problem.' Other than the current bad name, the VCARB team is fine. They will probably have a good 2024 season. Would like to see Danny Ricc back to his old form.
That is very true, but Formula 1 is often quite good at creating problems for itself 😂
I hope one day to see all 4 Red Bull drivers do a 1-2-3-4 finish in a race.
my main problem is how the team seems to have and identity crisis every few years. another problem is that red bull has so many opportunities to get drivers. their own academy, alpha tauri and alpha tauro's academy.
(first btw)
I think the identity crisis is now part of their identity
@@NotApplicableJB consistently in crisis
I think RedBull are just preparing to sell the team in the near future. This rebranding and helping Toro Rosso (nope, ain't calling it RB or whatever) with their 2024 car just seems like a massive marketing stunt to attract someone who's interested in buying a team. But with that in mind, Red Bull may need to be quick with this as I think FIA will inevitably introduce some rule or something, that prohibits one company owning multiple teams. And that would mean having to sell the team under its (supposed) value.
.
EDIT: I've written this comment after about three minutes of the video and you're talking about similar things at the end, so... yeah...!
I think we are definitely on the same page. Red Bull don't want the hassle of a second team anymore. They don't need to be picky with drivers anymore because they have established themselves as a top tier team
You ain't wrong man. Great video.
Thanks so much mate, really loving the revamped liveries especially with all the teams going for the black + colour approach
Thank you! You have addressed issues no one else seems to be talking about .
Glad that you're on the same page, I thought it was just me!
The first problem is there name and second is the team being really messed to be honest. I think so now red bull's name be mastercard Microsoft redbull oracle racing.
Imagine if every team had to incorporate ever sponsor into their name...
Do you any follow up to this video since making it? I agree with your assessment as being unfair to have a team so closely related to Red Bull Sr team they is overtly being dubbed junior with no chance to ever compete at the highest level while being a roadblock to other teams. With changes coming from moving from Honda to their own Power Units next year and rules changes in 2026 will there be a change in ownership or rules by FIA? I would like to see a follow up to your video and possibly an assessment on the current lack if performance of Yuki and Danny are more to the car vs their skills that have been very noticeable throughout the 2024 season. Thank you
Let's just call it VCARB and mourn the loss of a team's identity
But the company is known as Racing Bulls SpA on the entry list. The team is gaslighting us!
It’s like they know they’re being as annoying as possible 😂
Even if they ban joint teams with the next Concord agreement, RB and VCARB will be grandfathered in. Regardless of whether RB wants to sell or not, it will always be in their interest to present as not keen to sell because it will increase the value of the 2nd team. With 20% of the negotiating power they aren’t going to just give that up in the Concord negotiations without getting some major concessions in their favor.
Time to buy the team merchandise im in love with it ngl
That is the thing with sponsors and brand identity. F1 will likely always have this issue with one team like this and the infamous rich energy. Every team has a sponsor within the teams actual name like petronas or cognizant etc... but the team still has it's own identity. This on the otherhand feels like craming as much sponsors in a team name as much as we can.
The fact of some would say this is a 2nd red bull doesn't bother me as been going for years and other top teams has arragements but still act independently to raise junior drivers and build them up to a possible top seat in the future. That part is crucial for F1 since the whole F2 to F1 transistion is a nightmare and a topic seperatly on it's own. Which funny enough if F1 allows another team or two as think all the tracks can host 24-26 F1 cars.
Would the logical extension of that then be that each team has to design and build their own engine. Would the customer teams not give the manufacturer teams potentially advantages in terms of extra data points to determine the efficiency of the engine designs?
]
To be fair to RB, Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri won as much Grand Prixs since 2021 as Haas, McLaren, Aston Martin, Alfa Romeo/Stake/Sauber, Alpine/Renault and Williams COMBINED. So maybe not that uncompetitive. It's still a more competitive team then most. And they also won it with Seb, even before the Red Bull team did. I am against a 2nd team though. but give to caesar what belongs to caesar
If Redbull have the money let them just have 4 on the track but you need to let other teams enter
It has to be either let red bull have 4 but also allow Andretti on or let Andretti take over the 2nd team
More competition in the field the better
Couldn’t agree more!
Thanks mate I have learnt more about this new team
They found a way to create a possible loophole in the cost cap regulations, so maybe the other teams should do the same, and quit whining about it. You still have Norris, quit crying Zak.
As far as the change to the branding creating a "nostalgic disappointment", well I long for the days of normally asperated V-10, and the scream they had, it's not going to happen, I accept it.
I agree sell the team to Andretti. Then we can watch Zak and the girls cry a river over that. RB needs to hand out boxes of tissues to the other principals.
L take, u can't say that the VCARB team isn't doing anything for the sport when you have teams like Haas and Sauber (yes they will become Audi in 2 years but since 2018, they've done nothing to add value for the sport). AT meanwhile, despite being a sister team has got drivers on the podium and a even a win, whilst having multiple drivers on the grid because of them. If anything, the rebrand is a good thing, because they can move from being a back marker sister team to it's own brand that's trying to be at the front of the grid. Yes the controversy of potential sharing if info is always a possibility, but realistically, with the amount of scrutiny in f1 by the fia, whilst not impossible, it's not reallistically viable. The fact that teams can't run endless wind tunnel simulations because they are monitored makes it's next to impossible to share info without raising some kind of red flags. Red bull would rather have 1 team at the front and not break any rules than to share info to have 2 teams at the front and risk being thrown out. While many are arguing that f1 have allowed RB to have 2 teams instead of allowing andretti, keep in mind that this is on f1 (not even the fia) and the other teams. Blaming RB for it is not really fair.
RB = really boring
I’m just calling it toro rosso
"The risk of knowledge transfer" would be cheating. I really don't understand why people suddenly make such a fuss since say 2 years about TR/AT/VCARB. When it comes to the two seperate teams RB has always played by the rules, there is to much at stake (no not the stake team) to be even trying to do that. If they tried and would get caught, they would be booted from the sport or being disqualified with both teams at the bare minimum. That is not something teams are willing to risk. That part is an absolute nothing burger. Complain about the name, the loss of Minardi's history (not the first and certainly not the last team that happened to... where is the Tyrell legacy? BAR? Jordan? nobody whines about that but " tHe lEgAcY oF MInArDi wAaAh" is somehow an issue.) or the re-use of the STR14 livery but don't pretend RB is somehow plotting devious things using their former junior team.
Its not necessarily cheating for instance whilst McLaren and Williams have just invested in brand new simulators, because of the move RB is now allowed to use Red Bulls. So now RB don't need a new sim and can use that money elsewhere. With the cost cap that is a massive advantage to have that other teams don't.
Teams have a known history of searching boundaries and cross them sometimes. Red Bull has done it before, albeit on technical grounds.
@@GoogleGebruiker Yes, stretching the boundries of the rules is something all teams do. What is talked about here is not stretching the boundry of the rule but doing things explicity banned aka cheating.
Torro Rosso did not win their first race...
I thought Torro rosso won a race before Red Bull?
@@NotApplicableJBcorrect just my interpretation of how you worded it made it sound like they won their very first race on entering the sport.