“Sepia Gate” Photographer FINALLY Speaks Out
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
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WATCH PART 1 (bride's side of the story) th-cam.com/video/zlHC8cTyh-c/w-d-xo.html
So what if the bride edited the raw and it was a different style? that's the whole point. She wasn't happy with the final result and changed it. She just wanted her memories in a different edit... or with no edit and no filters. Who cares? Why is it so bad for your "Business"?? it's her face!, her memories, her event!!
@@R4r4Gamez because you choose a photographer for their style. The photogs style was ‘warm’ and in the end the bride wanted 1) true color as evidenced by her videographers product and her own edits and 2) the photographer to control the weather. 🤷🏼♀️
@@saltymilspouse thats not at all what she asked. Even Jessica agrees multiple times that the editing was over done!! And no, I don’t choose a photographer for their style at all. I choose a photographer for their skill in capturing a moment and freeze it in time. That’s the one job of a photographer. Not photoshop skills at all. I don’t want them to photoshop a spaceship behind me. I want them to capture moments and angles!! And after that, any good photographer would know that editing needs to be adjusted depending on that days weather and time of day. Your style should never trump what that day gave you. If it’s a gloomy day you adjust. Otherwise your just using a preset!!! Even Jessica mentioned this too
@@R4r4Gamez honestly, the bride wanted a golden glow. And that is exactly what the photgrapher did. Wether it was preset or not. The bride went for a specific type and searched a specific photographer and that is what she got. She should have went for regular (which entails enough editing) and just put sepia over it if she wanted it that way.. .
I feel like the bride left a lot out of her POV. She said she paid $8,000 but didn’t mention that it was a multi-date destination wedding nor did she mention that she got 2,000 photos or that part of the $8,000 was an hourly editing rate. Context matters.
How convenient
She did mentioned it on multiple series.
I'm sure cuz I listen to her: Pre-wedding and Wedding day, 2000 photos on both days.
I just feel like she didn't know she like the "true to color" vibe, and instead, picking the sepia look.
At least she admitted it. And the photographer did her best to help the bride, but I feel like the Bride didn't appreciate it and also, it's too complicated between the bride and the photographer through extra charges which makes the bride felt like she was ripped off 🥹
But still yeh.
@@kenphan2780 it wasn’t mentioned in the recaps I’ve seen and I don’t have TikTok nor do I want to support this bride so I’ll take your word for it.
@@kenphan2780I see your point, but I also feel like it was important to talk about this when calling out the photographer... but obviously TikTok is super short form so idk everything is just super dramaticized and missing context 😅 just not a great way to deal with disagreements for either party lol.
@@226iamacake Yes.
It's pretty sad when the photographer got called out on Tiktok, but it also raises the awareness about how to secure a business.
At least, after this, people should be more careful about how to prepare their weddings.
I like how the photographer was sepia IRL
😂😂😂😂😂
Literally my first thought 😅
lmao, still on brand even irl
Nice, gave me the biggest laugh of the day.
exactly my thoughts lol
This whole thing is so interesting. Classic case of liking something you see but when it’s on you, you hate it.
this is sooo true!!!
Nah, it was amateur hour from the photographer. If you're charging thousands of dollars for a shoot, you ha e to know that a preset look doesn't work in all lighting conditions, and situations.
This is giving "don't know how to white balance". 😂
My thoughts exactly, she could have had a similar feel without throwing off the whites. @@-greypeople really hate it when the white objects in the photos are off
Perfect analysis. She saw the sample photos. But seems the bride wanted an exact I terpretation of the wedding day.
@-grey I don't think so. She absolutely new the photographers style. She should have looked for a photographer that shot the style of photos the bride likes
No one seems to remember that in the original video from the bride, she states that she fell in love with the photographers work because it had a dreamy, "golden" style. She also said that she loved the photos at first and thr photographer confirmed that she sent a message saying how much she loved them. In my opinion, she got the wedding video back and liked the true to color style more than the golden and then wanted her photos to match. I dont think this is fair. She chose the photographer based on her style and then isnt acknowledging that she essentially changed her mind. I dont think the photographer was perfect in this either, as Jessica points out, but like man, this is not the way to handle this situation.
Her teeth and the dress were yellow in every photo, not many brides are going to be happy about that. You can have a sepia tone without yellowising the dress in every single photo 😅
I feel like the photographer could've dialed it down a notch or two, maybe 20-30% less golden, and it would've satisfied the bride. But why not just apply a more natural preset if that's what the bride wants? Why would you not want to make your customer happy.
Yeah, I'm with you.... Don't hire someone for something then complain when you get exactly what you told them you loved about their work.
@@dsego84 I think the bride was definitely not acting in good faith. I think she was wanting to complain to get much more from this photographer than what was contracted. Today, it is way too common for people to try to abuse the customer is always right mentality we grew up with. This bride seems like pretty dishonest person.
@@rickskellig4652 Ok Karen then don't pick that photographer who uses that style
I knew it. The second the bride mentioned that the photographer had “threatened to sue” I had a feeling that it was in response to the bride threatening to use her platform to get her way.
This series of "sepia gate" and the video explaining raws really changed the way i think about photgraphers. I don't know why but i guess i always assumed that there is minimal editing done and that most of the photographers job was just taking the photo, having their camera set to the right settings for the scene, and delivering the photos. I never realized how most of the job is editing the images and how much time it takes... wow, i'm glad to have learned this!
Thanks for all the replies! I am learning so much and am now even more curious about photography lol. 😊
An 8-10 hour wedding day is equal to about 30-40 hours of editing for me
If you have a good photographer they should be able to do it in camera. Most film photographers would get right in camera
For me when i edit wedding photos: 12-15h wedding day, and 2-3 days of editing and delivering with different menus.
When i edit wedding videos: 12-15h wedding day, and 2-3 days of editing. Those are days without interruptions, but most of the time i have other client work, meetings, calls and etc.
Do the calculations yourself of how much time i actually spend in front of a computer.
@michelenardo1221 wow, so it takes you the same amount of time to edit the wedding video and photo? That is so interesting, I would expect the video to take longer. Im learning so much about this industry... so interesting!
@daysofgrace2934 hmmm, film photography is where they have to develop in one of those red rooms, right? I never even considered those types of photographers. Would it even be possible to edit those (in my mind the answer is no, but i dont know too much about it)? That is interesting to think about!
I wish this conflict wasn't online. I think we all have made mistakes in our careers. We never stop learning and improving our craft. I just hope the photographer isn't negatively judged forever for this learning moment. I think Jessica sees the big picture and sees that the battles that occured are not worth it for the photographer's peace. I also love the feedback of less is more. This sounds like great mentorship.
I agree, but I don´t see that the photographer learned all the lessons that could be learned here. Because she still claims she went above and beyond with the editing. And that is not true. Like Jessica said, she just should have made sure to find out what the client wanted. But still, it was not fair from the client to go public with that in the middle of the negotiation process.
In my previous work in finance. After phone calls I send an email follow up with bullet points “hi, per our conversation this was what’s discuss and agreed upon, please look over them and let me know if I missed anything if I don’t hear back back from you in 2 business days that means everything in this email is accurate and we are good to go. Thank you!”
I do that as well. It's good business practice. FYI - It's called a time bomb. ;)
@@jerrydalton3203 It is good legal protection.
I need to do this more 😊
CYA 101!
The bride and the photographer both made mistakes here. But I have to say I am on the photographer's side because it seems like she didn't know how to say no to the client and also was unfairly blindsided with this. I do understand where the bride is coming from, but posting it on tiktok when the photographer is still willing to work with you is very rude
The couple did not want to compromise. They wanted it their way, and when the photographer tried to find a solution which wasn't exactly what the couple wanted, they went nuclear.
@@KNYDTHIS!
@@KNYD what should anyone comprise after hiring someone for a service they're paying for?
If the photographer was ready to work with her why didn't she offer to do a more true to life edit of the photos? She obviously didn't want to compromise on her editing style and blew off the bride. Also the bride waited for 7 months before sharing the story.
@@dsego84She said she offered to edit them again and the client didn’t respond and then instead just went to social media.
if she said she thought her hair looked redder than it did in real life, then she WAS upset with the toning. she just didn't realize the toning was the issue. wedding clients arent the same as professional clients, they don't have the same understanding or knowledge to communicate what is wrong. it is your job to be able to understand what they are asking for
Never send that much photos to a client. They will focus on 30 they don’t like and they will hate the entire gallery
What do you mean by this exactly? don’t send them the entire gallery. don’t we have to send all the photos?
whattttt? lol
@@collinsal1433 It's nonsense talk. They can also focus on the 2 they don't like and hate the entire gallery. You cannot mitigate difficult people.
I have to agree sending the entire shoot is never a good idea. You want to edit first and "cull the herd".
Yep. Even when I used to shoot wedding's here in India with multi day shoots the max I would give is 150-200 per event. Customers get bored if they have to scroll more than 3-4 times
I don't know why but I find it so funny that the photographer looks like she has a sepia filter on even in the video.
😂 girl is a big fan of yellow
born and raised in sepia valley
@@jduffy7196 sepia is brown with a yellow base.
@@jduffy7196 Lol as a "true color" brown is dark orange. in fact there is no "real" or "true" colors but color perception. And some people perceiving this as some sort of sepia, as a mix of brown and yellow is valid.
I think the photographer was going for "gold" (a rich, amost dark yellow)
@@jduffy7196 as I read this that tiktok audio that’s like “well, since you got your degree, and you know every fuckin thing” popped into my head 🤣
My heart goes out to this photographer. I've been photographing weddings since 2000 and have had my fair share of situations arise. About 10 years ago, I worked with a couple that was referred from another client of mine. I worked mostly with the groom leading up to the wedding, which isn't the norm but didn't seem off base either. I never met the bride as they didn't want engagement photos and she was "always too busy" to meet so I took that in stride, assuming as long as I was getting her input for a shot list and whatnot, we should be good to go. When I showed up to the wedding, the bride was standoffish and clearly really stressed but wasn't projecting that to me. She made her mom re-do her corseted back dress 4 times because of something that was never going to change regardless of how it was tied. Everything was running very behind because of situations like this coming up but as a photographer, you make use of the time you get and that is what we did. It was a beautiful April afternoon and a nice, small ceremony. After the ceremony, I was taking photos of guests during cocktail hour and the guests that had recommended me were there so I got a photo of them. They happened to be standing in a different area then the majority of the guests so the background was different but I thought nothing of it. Typically during dinner, I will hang in an area away from the guests to take a little break but close enough I'll know if anything is going on. This wedding definitely had a strange energy and everyone was so quiet and reserved. Cut to Monday, two days after the wedding, I get a call from the bride while she was at the airport getting ready to go on her honeymoon, expressing concern about if certain photos were taken. I assured her of what we did get and if something was missed, I explained how we discussed that at the wedding because of the scheduling being 2+ hours off the planned timeline. I sent her a super-sized sneak peek and she loved the photos. She posted them all over her social media and got so much lovely feedback from her loved ones-- something ALL photographers love to see. When I met with them to get their album to them, only the bride was at the meeting. She looked through the book faster than I have ever seen anyone go through their album and said thank you and left. Four days later, I start getting a barge of calls from her and the groom about how awful the photos were, how her guests said I looked bored, how I missed "the magic", how I favored some guests and took better photos of them in better backgrounds then where the activities of the guests were taking place, how I missed so many photos, etc.... basically I had done everything wrong and that I ruined her wedding. I was gobsmacked. I had NEVER had anything remotely like this come my way and couldn't figure out what I could have done better. The work they received was very much on brand to the work I have on my website. After a weekend of total harassment, I agreed to meet up with both of them to discuss. I also brought another professional photographer with me to have another professional opinion and a third-party present. The groom was silent as the bride just ripped my work apart stating she had her family friend who was apparently a professional look at the photos, and they agreed there was no way they could be professional. She said she got complaints from her family about the photos and wanted to attempt to retake some of the family photos because the two-year-old was throwing an absolute fit the entire time. We went back and forth on some of the logistics and details of the day and I was very clear with her that I had fulfilled our contractual obligation. That said, I never wanted anyone to feel that way about photos I have taken let alone their wedding. After what truly felt like a beat down, I agreed to give them all their raw files (at NO cost) and they had to sign a statement that they were satisfied with this resolution. The following weeks, all of my business pages started receiving very negative reviews from a lot of different people, many I had never heard of. What I later found out was the bride was going around and asking everyone to leave me bad reviews and was trying to collect affidavits against me. I had all the screenshots of her and her loved ones praise about the photos she posted and had to have a legal cease and desist letter sent advising her she was in breach of our contract and was liable for defamation. The reviews (mostly) got removed and I found out I was not the only person(s) the bride had a beef with after. She also called several guests at the wedding while at the airport to express her concerns about what they wore to the wedding or their behavior. I later put the pieces together to realize I was the only thing the groom had any say in, so I was always going to be an easy target for her because the friends that referred me were people the bride resented. They were friends of the groom for more than 30 years and after the wedding, were no longer allowed to communicate with the groom.
The best takeaway I had from this was the following: under no circumstances would I ever not meet with both the bride and groom prior to the wedding, my contract was a pretty iron clad contract, I would never had over the raw files again without a full release of copyright and compensation that follows, and, most importantly sometimes some people are just so miserable there is nothing that you can do to change that.
What a nightmare! I'm surprised you continued doing weddings after that lol
@@MsAJ224 It was indeed a nightmare but I also really learned a lot from it once the dust settled. I was also 14 years in the business at that point so not a spring chicken. Had I been a few years in, I could see how that could derail someone. All that said, I am much more selective about the weddings I take on these days. I've learned it's ok, actually best practice, to say no.
"Sometimes people are so miserable there is nothing you can do to change that."
Words to live by! I'm glad you were able to piece together the reason why the bride attacked your business specifically. Not knowing would have driven me crazy.
The bride sounds miserable, yikes.
I wonder if they are still married.
Jessica's take aways here are spot on ... a version of this happened in 2004. I was teaching a young woman digital wedding photography and she made a gallery of 1400 images. The wealthy client viewed the images on a broken down PC with cheap CRT. The family spent hours trying to look through the images and wanted to see but never found the cake images. They wrote a terrible email to my protege- but were not specific as to what was wrong. I had my protege ask what exactly was the problem and the client said they had troubles with the computer and could not find the cake pictures. I made a 250 image website with the best images and she invited them over to see the images on her good computer. The people apologized... this was an example of the client living in a mansion and computing in the slums- plus the photographer thought more images were better. BTW- I shot weddings on film for years and took 300 images and I was considered to be a generous photographer. I usually threw away two or three images... lol.
I believe the client was difficult and possibly entitled - however her complaints are valid. Her concerns as presented in the video are valid. The edit tint in the first batch is different than the second batch, which is too heavy. The photographer is an extremely talented photographer but not as professional or savvy a businessperson as she needs to be. Jessica is 💯 correct. Judgement is for the plaintiff. Reluctantly. I hope the photog learns from this.
The bride's white dress is yellow in the images. It's not a style. The photographer simply does not know how to color correct.
I've been doing photography for over 20 years, mainly for fortune 500 companies, but I've done quite a few weddings over my lifetime.
I will say I'm about 50/50 on blame. Bridzilla seems insane. I agree. She shouldn't have gone to social media, that was unprofessional.
However, I feel like the photographer needs to re-evaluate her workflow. Using presets is fine, but you still have to adjust for lighting differences in the frame when it comes to backlight, clothes, skin tones etc
She did a batch edit of 2000, freaked out when the customer had some issue with them. That's on her, she set herself up for failure.
She didn't readjust the lighting on any of the shots from what I saw. The shots either had crunchy shadows or blown out highlights.
You can have good airy sepia tone photos without blown out highlights/bad shadows.
That's cool if that's her "style", but you still need to balance the light.
I would agree with your critique about the photographer except that the Bride loved every picture for a month, after which she change her mind. That's not on the photographer. I firmly believe the Bride had no idea what she wanted when asking for changes. I bet she kept asking for changes related to her makeup, and the photographer follower the directions perfectly but the Bride didn't like it because nothing she wanted was going to look good in that sepia hue but she didn't know to tell the photographer to change THAT.
I get they paid a lot of money but these bridezilla women are so off putting. The focus so much on the event, but then they can’t seem to stay married
@@arthurmarshall6825 The photographer didn't follow the directions perfectly, there was miscommunication. The bride wanted true to life colors of the makeup, she is a professional makeup artists. Now, personally I couldn't care less about the shade of lipstick, but apparently this matters to the bride. And after the bride paid for an edit, the photographer basically just bumped up the saturation to enhance the makeup, but it was still the wrong color tone. And then when the bride still had issues, the photographer gave up and offered a handful of raws. The photographer basically refused to edit any photos in the true to life style or to offer a few different variants and let the bride choose the style, maybe just lower the strength of the sepia preset. In the end she even told the bride "you knew my style before you hired me, the raws will be $4k"... how is that working with the bride and following directions?
@@dsego84 Oh good, it's not just me. Her photos also made the bride look twenty years older.
@@arthurmarshall6825There seems to be a few inconsistencies in both their stories. The bride said she loved the photos for about 30days. However the photographer stated that the bride started nitpicking photos after only a week.
I’m looking at the photographer’s skin and I wonder if she may have some bias about people looking tan or orange. She seems to be a self tanner and likes this look. She may not be aware .
They looked so orange to me, too! I also felt like she aged the bride by about 20 years in her versions. (Something every woman wants for her big day.)
I think you’re right. I also did not think the bride looked flattering in her filter. I can’t believe I’m so invested …😂
@@clairepettie I think the same! The photographer made the bride look older/uglier and orange. I would have been livid as well. I made this mistake with a make up artist. She was also a self tanner with the love for orange. Despite my very cool undertone, she insisted I will look nice in warm colours... I cried over the orange make-up for the whole event.
I love your POV, it is so insightful and not just for photographers, but for freelance creatives!
I do think this is just a learning experience for the photographer and the bride as well. You always have to take everything people say with a grain of salt.
I appreciate that, thank you!
I think that people who aren’t photographers don’t understand why giving out the raw photos is such a big deal and why most photographers refuse, which is a big part of why the Bride was so shocked and offended that the photographer wanted $3000 to send the raw photos. The photographer should have explained to the bride that giving out raws is not standard in the industry and is rarely done, hence the high price tag. It sounded like the bride thought the photographer was just charging $3000 to be petty.
I feel like the bride that knows how to edit raws, knows perfectly that...
But why is that industry standard?
@@Ikea9292101 She addresses that in the video but you're basically giving up creative control of your own work. And you can see the result when the bride makes some objectively bad edits on the raws.
@@Epicloa But they are HER photos that she paid for. Photography should be based on the moments captured as well as the ability to edit a photo. I think personally there is to much emphasis on the photographers “creative control” rather then the bride not liking HER OWN wedding photos. In the grand scheme of things which matters more
@@Ikea9292101 The bride signed a contract that was very clear, the photographer was well within her rights to just ignore the complaints entirely honestly.
If she was saying her hair was too red isn't that a way of saying the coloring of the photo is off? This was not communicated well between two of them and I feel like the bride offering to edit them herself was her way of not continuing to make the photographer keep working on it. I also would not want yellow teeth in my wedding photos if my teeth are white. The bride should have just paid for the copyright and called it a day
I dont think you understand how photography and photography contract works. Its an artistic choice for which the specific photographer was chosen.
You can't just buy a car with red color, use it for week, and go back to dealer saying you no longer like red and want black color for free!
You just dont!😊
The bride posted a video on tiktok complaining about her hair being "too red" and when I tell you that her hair looked literally the same in both of her photos she was trying to compare.... Everyone disagreed with her and she blocked us all and deleted those videos from her page. That changed my view on the situation and made me feel like she's just wanting clout at this point.
@@Shalin.S.Shah.the problem was that the pictures turned out different than the pictures from the photographers portfolio because the lighting situation was different and the photographer didn't do anything to adjust the editing to this.
i wouldn't blame the bride or anyone else who isn't a photographer to not have enough knowledge to know that the pictures will look totally different to what the other pictures she saw looked.
she pointed out that she loved the pictures the photographer took of her on another day with different lighting, so it's not about her not liking the editing style on herself or smth like that.
i'm only like 2 minutes in, but i cant imagine the photographer individually editing 2000 photos. i can see batch editing, but to do them all individually, i can see where there might be a problem with consistency. and 2000 is def too many.
edit: this is definitely and everybody sucks here situation. the bride should've done her due diligence and really looked at the photos, if she's concerned about her makeup, maybe reach out to photographers she's looking at and ask if they'll do a sample edit of a photo of her because of her past as a makeup artist and what not. and the photographer definitely needs lessons in client relations. it easily could've been solved. even if the edits the client was looking for weren't the photographers style, she could've batched edited them to have truer colors. the 2000 photos seems like it really set her back and dictated how much work she wanted to put forth into righting the situation. and i hate to say it but maybe we're at the point in technology and social media where we need to be adding clauses in our contracts that clients cant post stuff like this on the internet or they'll get sued. cuz they're clearly looking for public opinion to be on their side and we never get the whole picture.
I think the bride putting this out on TikTok is by itself an extra level of nasty. Good point about putting it in the contract.
As soon as I heard 2000 photos, I wanted to know what the turn around time had been because that's a lot of work to go through anyway but to do them individually. . . .
I do 500-1000 for a 12-hour wedding (used to do 300-500, but the number of good quality photos increased), and I make sure everything is consistent, but it takes me 2 weeks of full-time work to edit them (meaning 3-4 weeks when you add other work that needs to be done, and that's if I don't have another wedding in between)
i get both sides but some photographers will only edit the way they want. i had a LONG convo with my wedding photographer about what tones i wanted, specific ways i do and don’t want my picture taken due to insecurities, examples of photos i loved, poses i wanted to do, etc. she ignored all of it and our wedding photos were awful. when i asked her why she ignored my requests, she just doubled down and acted like she was Annie Leibovitz or something and how dare i question her art. those photos never saw the light of day.
If you discussed it and she agreed, that's on her. But, in this case, it's on the bride.
*Measure twice, cut once*
Honestly this photographer doesn't seem very professional. She's over delivering to the point where it's overwhelming to even go through all the photos and choose what to upload or print, she is assuming instead of asking more questions, she is not providing sample edits of 2-3 photos to see if her signature aesthetic is actually ideal for that particular client's photos (lighting, theme, location, weather, etc always varies). And she is putting more value on her so-called signature style than on what her client wanted and paid for. It's not like her hands are tied and she can't do any other edit other than her copy paste preset. And maybe that's why she was able to deliver 2000+. She slapped on the preset without any other adjustments to count for the lighting and weather which was overcast on the day of the wedding if I remember correctly
This situation reminds me so much of being a hair stylist and blonde customers specifically.i feel like hairstylists can get so stuck in their idea of the best blonde and then clients also do as well. clients will show you a warm toned blonde picture as inspo and you ask them “oh so you like a warm toned blonde” and they go “oh no I hate warm toned I want it as cool as possible”. On top of this there is the customers you can ask all the right questions get the best result possible and then they still see the warm and will never be happy.
Have you guys checked the photographer's website and ig account? I just did, and like it or not (taste is subjective) I know what sort of retouching I would get from her if I hire her for my wedding. There's no way I would expect cold or natural tones coming from her. So yeah, I agree with Jessica, the client liked the photos til she got the white balanced videos from the videographers. Once she noticed how monochromatic the final result was she simply could not unsee it. In addition, she lacked the knowledge and vocabulary to explain the photographer the exact thing that was bothering her. Hence the photographer went ahead the retouched her makeup instead of adjusting the white balance. Im surprised though the photographer wasn't able to interpret from scratch her client was having issues with the warm tones.
Yeah but the Insta ones are nice, the edits for this bride are TERRIBLE. Looks like she just copy pasted her preset rather than adjusting for the overcast
@@karma-616 To be honest, I don't like either of them. And I, as a photographer, love love monochromes, but I wouldn't personally hire her for my wedding. I'd rather have more natural looking memories from such a special day. But that's just my taste. Based on what I see on her portfolio, she seems to copy and paste presets. I think that's super obvious. But I respect that's her business model and style. It was the bride's decision at the end. She saw not only the photographer's portfolio but a full gallery of 2k images. She knew what she was getting into... Do people have the right to change their minds? Absolutely. The client definitely did not like how the retouching style suited her. But it's the client's problem not the photographer's. The service provider delivered what she promised. So if she wants the images to accommodate her personal taste (the taste she developed 30 days after he got the final results), then she gotta pay.
@@ericksmonterrosa That is a very clear and an excellent way summarize this problem!
@@ericksmonterrosa I disagree. Photographers typically showcase their top work in their portfolios, but this doesn't guarantee you'll get the same quality. As a digital artist responsible for hiring, I've reviewed hundreds of impressive portfolios. However, when asked to create test pieces, many people's work didn't match the quality I saw. I also hired a photographer based on their portfolio, but the results were so poor that we doubted if the same person had taken the photos. The edits were terrible, with glaringly obvious clone-stamped areas.
Honestly, still pretty sure the client looked at the number of Insta followers, not the actual photography.
The photographer is giving kinda inexperienced vibes but I don't think it's all on her.
This! I felt the inexperienced vibes with her too
Inexperienced and charging 8k for preset photography is just crazy to me
@@beausimmonsphotographyI don’t agree. Pricing is arbitrary and has to do with the artists overhead costs. If the bride didn’t want to pay that, she didn’t have to
@@beausimmonsphotography For over 2000 photos it's actually quite cheap. Also, the couple signed the contract. If you think something is too expensive, go with another option.
@@KNYDI’m talking about the overall quality of work. Nothing in these photos says $8k worthy to me and I’ve been doing this a long time.
For those who are familiar with the music industry, RAWs in photography are like Master recordings.
great example
There are 3 kinds of photographers that I know. Most that I know have their grading style and it's non dicussable... they will put THIS grading on the pics and there is no way to grade it any different. They even put in the contract, that the client is not allowed to edit them any further.
... and there is the other kind, they don't grade at all and just give out unedited, cause they just like shooting and not editing. They would even give out raw if asked.
... and another kind, that will grade the photos, the way the customer likes. I feel like the last two are more chill to work with.
Definitely! It’s crazy the entitlement some of these photographers have when all they do is slap presets on everything and charge ridiculous amounts with no ability to work out issues with their clients
What about the mystical photographers who know how to achieve their desired look in-camera without editing. It’s a pretty rare skill these days but they still exist.
@@liampughold school. I love it.
@@liampugh those photographers who "always get it right in-camera" are shooting in studio settings with controlled lighting, assistants, and no bridezillas or mothers-of-the-groom to deal with. They aren't shooting events and weddings. "Mystical" indeed 😂
I just always assumed you would edit the way the client would want. If it was an add campaign the client would choose the photos and how to edit them wouldn’t it be the same for wedding photos but also if the bride knew the style of the photographer that’s on the bride
Looking at the photos the only thing that I thought was off was the fact that the dress didn’t look white in the edited pictures but did in the raws. If I had a white dress I would want it to look white
I'm still convinced the bride made a snap decision to hire a photographer who had an editing style that looked great on everyone else's event but hers. She had good intentions for wanting what she envisioned but her pushiness and wanting to be right shows she's wishy washy and demanding, she'd likely have issues with whoever she used as a photographer.
And I'm also convinced the photographer is inexperienced in running a business (she broke her own contract), setting firm boundaries (keeping in line with the contract, having a good, solid contract), and she needs to learn to work WITH clients instead of guessing what they want. She has to learn she won't please everyone but she can develop better relationships with her clients to avoid further issues.
At the end of the day both made mistakes and they need to reflect, learn from their mistakes, and move forward.
The couple also chose a videographer with a completely different style to the photographer. I think because of the contrast between the two the couple realised they preferred the style of one over the other.
Agreed. The bride annoyed me though while the photographer didn't
It sounds like a the client didn't know why the make up looked so different. She knew it was off, but not why, and eventually she figured out it was the warm toning on it. The photographer just went ahead and enhanced the make up when that wasn't the issue. It's the photographer's job to guide her through the options and help her get what she wanted.
There's so much going on here. The Bride should have chosen a different photographer. Should not have been so aggressive. But also the photographer should have just given a batch of photos edited to the style that the bride requested. I totally get the bride not wanting the plants to look dying/sad/everything looked unnatural in skin tone etc. I get that. It does look like the photographer just used presets so she could have thrown a preset of 'light and airy' onto a couple hundred photos and that probably would have been the end of it. Maybe the bride would have gone full bridezilla and still been unhappy but even the bride said she was happy with other photos that this photographer did that weren't so yellow.
Yep and this is another reason why you dont just throw a preset on all the pictures and edit them individually
I have a section of my wedding contract that says i will edit these to look like the rest of my portfolio. Never had an issue but im glad its in there after all this
Better to have it and not need it than to need it later on!
her edits don't even look like the shots in her portfolio though
@@karma-616yeah, the main problem was that she wasn't able to adjust her editing style to a different lighting situation and the bride of course had not enough knowledge about photography to know that the pictures will look different to the ones in the photographers portfolio with the different lighting.
imo a professional photographer should know something like this and either let the client know that the pictures will not turn out the same or adjust the editing accordingly.
The fact that she was able to give 2000 plus photos let’s me know she batch edited and slapped her presets on. I only give 300-500 photos per wedding. I know I’m going to have to tweak some photos of the lighting is trash. You can’t set yourself up to get played like that.
it was a multi day destination wedding... that's a whole diffent thing than a normal local wedding... with a local wedding yes.. perhaps 500 is more than enough.. with a multi day destination wedding.. 500 photos is NOT enough to capture the whole vibe.. i mean.. you can, ofcourse.. but there will be a lot of moments left out.
@@mrkooks 2000 still seems excessive to me for capturing the moment. If you made a slideshow where each photo was only on screen for two seconds, it would still be over an hour long. Surely the better approach would be to focus on key moments and some photos that capture the vibe and do them justice, instead of trying to edit 2,000 photos.
@@elsa_g Not really.. it all depends on how many days.. how was de decor, what activities they had... I do this kind of weddings every single weekend and believe me, it's differnet than local weddings, destination weddings people is traveling out of state or out of the country for the couple, they want to have as many memories as they can with them.. all of them... Average wdding day could be 1000 .. plus the other days that could be 500 300 per day between candids, groups, couple, etc.. the number can easily go up.. 1500 / 2000 it's not out of the world.. it's a high number, yes... but not excessive.
EXACTLY
Exactly! Her edits look so bad! Which is a shame because her portfolio ones are nice but she just couldn't bother to edit for overcast lighting
exactly. I dont fool around with pretending to know which photos my clients will like. I put a cap on the amount of photos THEY can select for editing. Anything after that cap I charge per photo...I am amazed sometimes at the photos the clients end up selecting as they are so different than what I would have selected but in the end what I want does not matter. Let the clients choose!
This is what my photographer did 30 years ago. And it was medium format film and paper at that time.
Which program do you use for letting clients choose pictures?
Does anyone know what she means by sending all photos to clients but only editting 200
@@Laurengfan i use Pixieset to create client albums
@@Laurengfan she means she sends all unedited photos in a small jpeg, maybe with a faint watermark, to the client... the client chooses here favorite photos and she edits only those photos
Still bothers me the difference between the photos of the day before compare with the ones of the weeding. If the client loved the first ones why not use that style? I feel that the photographer didn’t want to change her style even when she knew the client wasn’t happy.
I have to agree. The photographer seems to be very locked into a particular style with a one style fits all. I did not like the tone on the photos personally as I too prefer a more natural tone. I see the bride's POV and see the photographer's POV. There was a communication breakdown between what the bride wanted and the photographer's style. There are some great lessons to take away for both parties. I wish they'd both watch this video.
The photographer didn’t care if the bride was happy, she cared that it was in her style and her over the top sepia coloring . I she could have made the greens more green and the contrast would have been stunning… photographer isn’t supposed to care more about sticking to her coloring than about the client being happy and the pictures being beautiful… who wants every picture in sepia? That’s ridiculous.
This feels like the photographer assumed that the bride had more knowledge about photography as a business then she actual did. Specifically about the raws, the prices for them, and copyrights. As someone who is not a photographer, the idea that someone else owns a photo of *you* and *you* also don't legally get a say in how that photo is used, is very strenuous to wrap my head around. I could imagine the bride felt like the $3k-4k price tag for photos of *her and her loved ones* felt like an attempt to shut her down, making her panic and assume the photographer was being malicious.
This just seems like an inexperience issue. While she's a very good photographer, she seems inexperienced at editing and client relations.
idk, as I understood from previous vid she used a flash during that wedding only couple of times and only when it was dark and that was just DIRECT flash (looks awful to me) so it's not only about editing
If the clients edits are better than the photographer that you're paying thousands of dollars, there's a big issue.
Personally... the photographer did slap on presets. 2k images. Yea. That's all she did. She chose bad spots for the images because I saw the dark eyes sockets. Just lack of true knowledge of lighting? Im not sure. I have seen those that edit in that manner don't seem to pay attention to lighting scenarios. I haven’t the photographers insta but i do think there was a lack of editing and proper lighting choice on the photographers side. Its a nightmare situation, but I am a little more on the brides side. Your following count has nothing to with how well you do business or how well you photograph.
I find your analysis of this very fair on your critique of both the photographer and bride. The photographer was assuming a lot of what bride wanted, there was lack of communication.
Since the Bride was a former makeup artist, how did she not see those warm tones in the photographer's work? You know that she did and probably liked it because it made her look more tan but then didn't like it when it made her Bridal gown look yellow. Can you imagine having to mask out the gown in all the edits?? I think this is a lesson for all wedding photographers to stick to true tones, they're classic, no one wants a dated looking color grade from 20 years ago when they look back at their wedding photos.
I think you are right about the bride seeing the video and liking the "natural" quality and then not liking the more adjusted images by the still photographer. I shoot mainly stills but with jobs that combine both stills and video I make sure to match, as close as possible, the video with the stills or vice versa.
I don’t understand why she bothered going back and forth editing. Just go back to the raw, keep it true to color and leave the presets off. Send. Done.
but the bride "failed' to comunicate what she really wanted... she said to her a few tweaks. but never even sent her a screen shoot of her video for example. But she knew how to edit those raws...
After listening to her I'm actually **more** on the bride's side.
I like this photographer less the more she speaks
Honestly, I don't know what these photographers are doing that they pass it off as "normal" that clients are constantly requesting changes to images. I've been a professional wedding photographer for over 17 years and photographed hundreds of weddings, and I can count on ONE HAND the number of times clients have come back to me asking for changes to delivered photos.
The editing she did was heavy and quite bad. I'm sorry, but it really looked like a preset from a free photo editing app.
@@LK-fc9li it is a preset, ain't no way she's really manually editing 2000 photos for each wedding. Certainly her own preset but still
@@showdaKOs I don't mind presets. If they are unique to the photographer and good. This was just bad editing and part of the reason why people come back to ask for changes.
@@LK-fc9li Right. I agree that it looks bad. But my point is that the interviewer from The Vendor Table, Michael, ALSO seemed to share the sentiment that clients coming back with lots of changes was normal.
It is not.
@@ResurrectedBrush I don't think we are in dissagreement with one another.
Good job on the critiquing of the photographer’s side of the story. I come from the real estate side of photography and one of my favorite phrases is “I want what the client wants”. I always leave it up to the client when it comes to choosing.
Another thought of mine is that yes, 2,000 photos is an extremely amount to edit and deliver. To deliver that many photos in a specific timeframe, one would have to outsource the editing to an online editing company. But that opens up a whole new batch of problems if the client dislikes the finished product. Now it becomes a 3 way between the client, photographer and editing company who also will charge for any extra edits.
Unpopular opinion: the photos are of the “client’s” special day and the photographer is a hired service provider. The wedding isn’t a set or photo shoot, so it’s not YOUR photos. I hate that wedding photographers gate keep the photos as “their art/work.” That will probably ruffle lots of photographers’ feathers, but it’s just my opinion.
@@rachelrogers7517 exactly. You're shooting a personal event. It's not a public affair. Those are not models, they're real people. I hate this too
Love Jessica! Always so clear and helpful and compassionate to both sides 🩵
Oddly, prob because of some filter or light settings, but the wedding photographer looks like a living sepia pre-set.
Sepia hides a lot of imperfections in pictures without having to over edit , i honestly don’t know why any bride would hire to get sepia pictures taken for a wedding. I’d want the wedding dress to look as white as can be
How would a normal person know all these different terminology? If I say I don't like my makeup in this shot then I'm clearly referring to the "coloring" or "shading" or "editing" or "lighting" or whatever. It's a whole mess of miscommunication and assuming what the bride wants or belittling her requests then reediting and charging extra before asking!
The bride was not a bridezilla here. She paid a lot of money for the service, the photographer obviously takes photos in a specific style, but let's agree that specific colors look better or worse depending on the surroundings, lighting and clothes. The couple asked the photographer to re-edit some of their photos and they paid extra for it (which is understandable), but the photographer didn't even ask if they would be happy with the colors she was currently doing. So the couple ended up having to spend more money on more photos they don't like. It would be enough to take one photo in 2/3 versions and ask them what they like better - there would be no problem and no drama.
Additionally, you can see on the photographer's IG that different colors are visible - blue, green, pink. Everything about the bride is orange. The photographer's other photos, if you look at people's smiles, people have white teeth and this bride... well, everything is orange.
To me the bride told on herself pretty much at the beginning of her video, where she told that she hired the photographer because she liked her golden style. She didn't like that the editing style made her makeup look warm, when the video showed she had more of a neutral or cool toned makeup. I don't think there is a way to showcase that with the photographers style. So she had regrets and I can sympathize that this is a once in a lifetime event, where you want your photos to be as you imagined. But she literally got what was promised
I think the interesting thing is the photographer specifically says “I don’t want to get caught up in ego” but it does sound like she did and basically refused to edit in a way that wasn’t “her style”.
I totally agree with not sending the RAWs and I’m glad she had that in her contract.
Yeah i dont think she ever explained why come she couldnt satisfy the bride's wishes? Is the photographer physically unable to deviate from her aesthetic slightly?
She had already tried editing the photos for her and she was still not happy. I would have been afraid of doing the work all over again for her to nitpick something new I think she she compromised by giving a few raws. Also she might have had other projects that needed her attention additionally so it might be hard to spare time you don't have.
I really think that photographers edit like that, dont really know how to edit a little more natural or they might dont know any natural high end presets!
@@kellylyons1038some photographers literally won’t go against “their style” cause they feel like they’re compromising their artistic integrity, but…. Sometimes you just have to make the client happy
Because the bride had hired based on that style, why should she change her style because the bride Changed her mind?
I think Jessica made a good point that the bride possibly compared the video natural tone to the photographer’s golden or warm with the expectation that the photos tones should match the video. I would suggest that the clients need to keep in mind a photographer’s style and not automatically expect the photos to match a video’s tone. Then again I was an analyst in the military so I’m conditioned to consider more factors than the average person does.
Your wedding photos are one of the most important things…. Clearly if the photographer wasn’t understanding, she should’ve asked more questions or jumped on a Zoom or something. It didn’t seem like the bride was mad about the photos, only the coloring. I don’t understand why it had to be a huge battle over something SO precious and expensive.
I had a feeling about this when the story first broke. (That what we heard from the bride wasn’t the entire story.)
for this case the photographer had fulfilled her side of the contract. this is merely the clients change of mind of preference. not photographers fault but clients for changing her own mind in the editing style. this is entirely the clients responsibility. photographer did w/e she could to make clients happy.
I disagree. It's photographers responsiblility to make the sepia present work in all photos, which she didn't. In the examples that the client showed it did look horrible especially the shadows around her face. There is no legitimate way to edit 2,000 photos without taking shortcuts, which is the main issue. Good photographers will narrow down the list of photos and spend time editing each one.
The photographer seems inexperienced w/ customer service and the bride seems like a bully. Seems like a communication thing, like the photographer didn't understand she wanted overall-natural photos and the off tone is why the bride thought only a few specific features needed fixed. She probably liked looking more tan but noticed the coloring warped her hair and makeup lol.
Yeah, I also think the bride had some trouble knowing what she wanted / what she was getting.
Can you invite them both together on a podcast please 😂
I was just thinking jessica has a great personality for podcasts or streaming. Especially the reaction content she does
So true!!! She is so understanding on both sides and non biased, plus expeirenced in photography she can educate the bride lol
One of the obvious problems is that the client paid $8000 and it is still not clear who owns the photos. I'm a wedding photographer and i believe the photos belong to the client thus they get all the images unedited plus some photos edited. It cost $0 to give them the raw images and even the sepia bride stated she'd been happy with just the unedited ones
I’m on the fence over giving unedited photos. Maybe after everything and making the customer go away I might have. Sending unedited raw photos look terrible and you don’t know if the client can edit themselves. I shoot a lot of swim meets and I tend to shoot a little underexposed to avoid getting blown out areas due to water glare and just fix in post. Clients would think my photos look terrible if I sent them the raw.
I agree with you. The photographer should never make assumptions on what the client “would like”. And giving her options and allowing the client to approve the edits is key. What would have been so hard to give the client some true tone images??? All photos should not have been in the “golden style”. And definitely 2000 photos is insane. If the photographer did not understand what her client was requesting she should have asked and not assumed. Make the client happy.
The bride waited 30 days. That to me is a mess. I would do a contract for two weeks and if they don’t like the photos within two weeks, charge them an arm and leg.
It’s really normal for wedding photographers to deliver full galleries in 4-6 weeks. Especially 2000!!!!! Photos
Ok but why does 30 days passing make such a significant difference…? It’s not like an Amazon product you need to return, they’re just images filed away on a computer or whatever
Plus… I’m sure they had a lot going on between the time they received the photos & the 30 days after. Just some I can think of is the honeymoon, thank you letters & finalizing any business or payments, possibly even adjusting to marriage life… and with all that going on there were 2,000 photos to look through…
This is a good idea to include in contracts as a time limitation to review and request changes / updates
That’s too short a timeframe and a horrible attitude to client service. This photographer has also stated the edit requests started almost immediately. Lots of wrongs on both ends.
@@HeartandRootPhoto I am not wedding photographer. I do family, newborn and maternity, mostly in studio. I always send Retouched Preview with watermark to make sure everything looks to their likening before sending hi-res images and always mention that after I send final product any additional re-do or extra retouching are subject for an additional fee.
Photography is a competitive industry y’all. It is one where you put in hours and develop a skill to reach more clients. There’s so much to account for, and part of what makes you an expert is accounting for all variables and taking nice shots to begin with. Then edit them nicely. The better the photos are taken, the better they’ll turn in the end result.
If it’s an overcast day, or maybe their skin-tone is really red, or their hair is flying around. Make a plan.
Use flashes on mounts, utilize green-tones to neutralize colors, or just take time to work well with your client. Know what you’re doing.
I swear with these instagram photographers and their preset “styles”. Stop focusing on pricing and getting a sweet gig, start focusing on your skill.
I’m fascinated as the idea of letting a client pick the final images seems like a nightmare experience in my opinion. For a professional headshot, sure. Wedding photos? Nope. I do agree the ideal though - less is more!
that editing of the makeup and that extreme yellow preset was pathetic.
Hop off the hate bandwagon. We come here to critique art not to spew crap.
@@ANTH0NY.VII. art ???? lol
@@ANTH0NY.VII. 😂 I think it's pretty clear that it was awful for the setting. The bride had yellow teeth and two black eyes. So bizarre.
@@ANTH0NY.VII.fine, then as a critique I think the photographer was more concerned about sticking to her preset "style" than giving the bride, a makeup artist, some white balanced portrait style photos to capture how her makeup ACTUALLY looked. I honestly believe if she'd have just stripped the preset off those 7 photos so the bride had some true to life colored photos of the closer up portraits the bride probably would have been happy. But the photographer said ok and sent her edits that still were too yellow. The bride said she wanted to see the real makeup colors and the photographer still added the yellow. That's just insisting on your way rather than making a small compromise.
@@CS-mf5un If it was so awful, why did the bride LOVE them for 30 days?
Stuff like this is why I refuse to do weddings/events. Not enough money is worth the headache
FOR REALLLLLLL. Expectations are insane 😫
Thats why it pays more though
@@chikensaregood9500I mean valid but also it’s hard to match outlandish asks and very specific expectations. Some people are just impossible to please imo.
From my experience weddings expectations and stress level is 5 - 10 times higher than events. Most corporates are really relaxed and easy to work with. Even the really big ones. 😊
@@AlienK8ersI recently had to refuse a (non wedding) private photoshoot client for that behavior. The stress she cause was no longer worth the money. My friend told me from day one that he wouldn’t want to deal with her but I kept trying to accommodate her because I wanted the work, until I didn’t anymore
The photographer definitely made some mistakes, but i could never take the side of a bridezilla.
I cant support a bridezilla just as i cant support someone who refuses to deviate from their aesthetic for one second.
The photographer didn't even give the client what they wanted.
@yennefer440 the photographer was never going to do that. It was doomed from the start.
Photographers are allowed to have a style, an artistic impression, and choices they make.
The photographer needs to hire someone to edit for her. She's awful at it.
Doing a bad work and being criticised for it isnt being a Bridezilla. The bride is right here imo. She made mistakes ( like hiring this woman) but the photographer is definetely wrong here and any awful 'professional' in my book.
Her interview actually made it far worse for me. It makes her look soooo bad and awful at her supposed job.
She's not a bridezilla, those edits are terrible...
How this photographer made so many begginer's mistakes and she is not a begginer?
I think she was just not used to shooting in overcast situations so she hadn't dealt with this issue before, the photos were way too yellow even compared to her Instagram work
@karma-616 but she was happy to charge arm and leg for her lack of skills 😂.
I honestly hate how biased the guy interviewing her was
This whole situation comes down to buyers remorse. The client saw the photographer’s portfolio, knew her editing style, and then had regret spending the money after the fact.
I’m a lifestyle/candid type of photographer (I’m not an in studio posed type of photographer) so my galleries are always large. A family session can have 150 photos. I don’t let them pick a few and then upsell the rest. I cull the entire gallery myself and give them all of the best ones.
I’m a family/maternity photographer. I also do newborn and events but my focus is family and maternity. For my events I do a more true to color/life and I go a little lighter on the editing compared to my normal bold editing. I make potential clients aware of this and they can see it in my portfolio.
Sepia is definitely not my style but it is the style of this photographer. Her portfolio reflects on that. I don’t consider myself dark and moody but my style is more of an emotional, bold, colorful, heavier on the contrast. Since I don’t do typical posed sessions and I’m definitely not a light and dirty photographer, I always ask potential clients if they’ve seen my portfolio so they know what they are getting.
Also, as a family photographer I don’t know any real photographer (family, newborn, wedding, etc) that just gives away RAW images.
Honestly what this boils down to is the client should have gone with a photographer that had a more true to life editing style instead of what this photographer does. If the portfolio didn’t reflect on what was given I’d understand, buuuut I think she just had regrets that spent 8k on a photographer.
In your initial video, the bride sounded rude (in my opinion) almost like she was enjoying the process of complaining. This situation is crazy and I hope it results in more business for the photographer. Hopefully, this is a learning experience for photographers and brides.
Hopefully, it won't. That color palette the photographer likes isn't great for many people. They aren't going to look the way they want to look and they'll also be unhappy.
that bride exhibited Karen behaviour in that first video, confirmed in the second. Don't think it's gonna be a learning moment for her
@@showdaKOs True! 😆 Some eople don't WANT to learn.
@@showdaKOs what part did you find to be Karen behavior?
@@jess_ismore the "we loved at first" but a month later no more, the more time passes, more edit are required, the weponized tears, and running to social media.
Individually, maybe it's ok, but together, this sound like textbook Karen.
I'm trying to understand the bride's POV, but after she threatened the photographer about taking this to social media when the photographer was trying to go above and beyond to help her, is when the bride became a bridezilla in my eyes.
She didn't go above and beyond to help, she did edits by her own just guessing what the bride wanted, and not taking into consideration the powerpoint of the bride and her specific adjustments she wants the photographer to make. Bride posting it was a really shady move but also photographer is not really good at customer service and seemed to forget the ''service'' and after service and instead focused on what she wanted instead of actually hearing the bride and working with her.
This is going to sound a bit arrogant but usually when a client asks for X they need Y. This is normal and you have to navigate that as a service provider. When the bride wanted ‘makeup’ looking different she needed colour temp and exposure adjusted. The photographer handled this badly and sadly got burnt - her livelihood is now compromised.
I didn't know there was a difference between having a RAW file and holding a copyright. Very interesting!
As a pro photographer (not weddings!) I generally agree with Jessica's assessment that less is more. Also, getting the client involved in selecting the images is the way to go.
Regardless, this client is a nightmare. I am glad the photographer spoke out because it was obvious she was trying to please this client. I think she bent over backwards. Were I her, I would literally post this interview as an example of the type of service I would deliver in the very unlikely event there was dissatisfaction. Then I would take the lessons learned and explain how I am making my services even better! Turn it into a learning experience and a win!
I wish the photographer the very best!
From seeing the bride I get the feeling she would never be happy with anything the photographer did.
There are some people I see and their vibe just let's me know working together will be a pain if something goes even slightly wrong. I avoid like a plague
You said that while you send only 300 edited/finished photos, your clients get access to ALL of the unedited files from their wedding day. Just for my own understanding, what is the difference between unedited files and RAW files? Why is it okay to share all of the unedited files but not the RAWs?
I am not a wedding photographer, but I believe she means that she provides a gallery of photos to SEE, but not EDIT. You can edit RAW files, but most wedding photo galleries won't allow for downloading/saving files in high res or at all.
Unedited: Exported, untouched RAW files. File name would be: "blabla.jpg", whereas the original file is called "blabla.AWR" or "blabla.cr2" or "blabla.dng", depending on the camera system.
RAW is the raw, original, untouched, unexported file that the camera produces. This file is written on the SD card and it can be opened and adjusted with certain programs such as Photoshop, Lightroom or Capture One. JPGs are compressed photos, whereas RAWs are full of information that the camera captures. That allows us to retouch if needed, color grade and color correct without losing quality. We can remove grain from the photo if shot at Higher ISOs and so forth.
If you look at it by "film" standards, the RAW file is the negative that a film camera produces, whereas the "edited" file is the photo you get to see once you print it.
Hope this helps.
This helps a lot, thank you both!
The photographer can also give you the high quality unedited .jpeg files. Depending on the photographer, they may or may not restrict how these unedited .jpeg photos are used.
I'm a little confused. First you said, 2000 is too many photos to send to a client, then you said, you should let the client choose photos. If you're going to send less than 2000 photos, aren't you choosing photos to send to your client?
Jessica-You're SKIN looks so GOOD! ❤
Comparison is the thief of joy. The bride initially liked the photos..
I got a solution. Let her give out not the raws, but the jpgs without the golden lut on it. This would be no work for the photographer AND she does not need to give out any raws.
.. and the bride is happy. She can now mess with it in private and do whatever she likes. She can sign a contract that she will not publish it.
I feel like the photographer could've just re-edited with a more true to life style or even reduced the golden preset by a certain percentage and the bride would've been happy. I mean, she said she loves the photos taken with a direct flash, where the sepia tones aren't as noticeable, even with the same edit.
I just checked out the website for this photographer. Her signature style is "sepia toned". Seems to me that the bride thought that was what she wanted and then realized that she didn't love that look in the end as much as she thought she would.
The bride sounds like a nightmare client. The photographer tried to work with her, and when she(the bride) didn’t get her way, she had a temper tantrum and tried to slander her on social media. With 20 (!!!!) videos about it. She clearly is loving the clout. And I’m saying this from the POV of a bride. Not a photographer
@K.C-2049 I agree with this. People always talk about how sad it is when your wedding is over, bc there's nothing big to look forward to. She's just enjoying all the excitement a bit too much
She's not a nightmare, the edits are terrible and don't match her portfolio at all
> The photographer tried to work with her
Not really, the photographer didn't want to compromise on her editing style. The extra edits she did and charged for where done without asking the client if that's what she wanted (eg enhancing the makeup by adjusting saturation instead of making the shade of makeup correct). And then she just gave up and told the client "you chose me, you knew my editing style" and that was it.
> she had a temper tantrum and tried to slander her on social media.
The bride posted to social media 7 months after the wedding to share her experience, not sure you could call it a temper tantrum.
Taking it to social media is almost always the worse thing to do.
Good analysis of the photographer's thought process and ways that would likely lead to better outcomes.
Thanks for sharing our interview!
Wow the photographer is BEAUTIFUL ❤
As a photographer I send 3 full wedding galleries when clients inquire. The fact she only sent 1 would raise a flag for me as a bride. She only sent one which probably showed ideal scenerios for her editing style. I show 3 to show 3 different lighting scenerios to show my editing style in all environments to make sure they're happy no matter what lighting they get on their wedding day because that will reflect on how I edit.
The bride is a social media girl. She was looking for views. She used this situation as a way to draw attention to her. The gripes are probably legitimate but she blew it way up beyond where it should have been. She likely hurt herself if a case of slander did come up. If she wanted to leave a bad review, she should have left it there.
It's interesting because she stated she LOVED her golden and warm tones, but now she wanted natural coloring and didn't pick that kind of photographer. It's pretty unfair from the photographer POV, because that is her style - sure she could've cut down some of the photos, or asked what she wanted but she shouldn't have to ask that the bride chose her after seeing her work. The bride should've chosen someone who she trusted or that people she knew had used or something. And after seeing thousands in a gallery and still picking her, she's just upset at her own choice and that her style doesn't necessarily look good for every instance.
Presets CAN be great, tones can be fun to play with and this photographer takes great photos, but she should've just asked for clarification from the client at the end of it and just do it. I'm not sure though that this photographer actually can edit natural photos very well seeing that her style is heavily reliant on her presets that are clear in her work. So the client knew what she was getting into , and really it's her own fault. I feel bad the photographer had to deal with her, that being said, I still would've fixed them myself to what she wanted and maybe just not posted them if they didn't align to my style. Everyone thinks they like these 'cookie cutter' photographers that put the same tones/presets on everything but in my experience most people like natural tones, and if I am doing something more creative, I make a digital copy of the photo so they can choose the 'natural one' or the more stylized editing.
I’m not sure if I agree with having the clients choose the final photos for something like a wedding, however I have done freelance work where I cull/edit down the images for other photographers, and it makes me kinda uncomfortable. I don’t think I could send a wedding I worked on to a complete stranger to decide. There were many photos I didn’t know if I should keep because I didn’t know the guests or personalities of the couple. The photographer of course doesn’t know everything about everyone at the wedding, but they know a lot more than a random person knows.
I'm sorry. I am not a professional photographer, but isn't the whole point of someone hiring you, for you to create something for them, that they will then own? I'm asking from a place of ignorance, so I'm not trying to be rude about it, but are you saying that as a wedding photographer, you're basically offering your clients the oppurtunity to have limited use of your work, but that is not really theirs? If I buy a painting, do I not now own that painting. If I commission a painter to create a painting for me, do I only get to hang it where I want, with their permission, but I can't sell it or leave it too my children when I die?
I work in commercial video production. Granted, I'm the low guy on the totem pole, so I don't have anything to do with these types of things that are generally above my pay grade, and I do know that in a previous video, you did make a distinction between wedding photography and commercial work, but on any particular gig, I get hired by the production company, they get hired by the advertising agency that theoretically, created the concept for the ad, and they were hired by the client, that ultimately is paying all of us to create a product for them. Again, I'm not on that side of things, nor am I a lawyer, but I'd assume that at end of day, whatever was created, for better or worse, is owned by the client. I could be wrong, but I don't think the director or cinematographer have any say in what the client eventually decides to do with it. We, all of us, were essentially payed to do a job, that job was to provide the client with whatever they wanted, we earned our pay, and that's basically the extent of it, but the producer/director/cinematographer doesn't decide how it will be done. They have to cater to the client because they're the ones that are signing all of our checks, and that's what they are paying for! Nobody did it to create a piece of art that would impact the world. Every single on of us, up and down the line, did it for the money. It's a gig!
Now, I completely understand why a wedding photographer would care about how their work is used, and how that affects their reputation as a wedding photographer, and their ability to keep getting hire. What I don't understand is why they think that should matter to anyone but them? Particularly if I'm a potential client who may hire you to shoot my wedding. How did my wedding become a personal creative endeavor for you? If I don't pay you, are you still going to show up and do all the same for your portfolio as an artistic expression of your work? If I am paying you to create something for me, then why would it believe that it was to my advantage that you get to own and control what I paid for? Does the baker that I paid to make a wedding cake, show up at the end and take back the left overs because they technically own the cake because they created it?
I'm not saying that wedding photographers have to submit to unreasonable clients, or anything else like that, and absolutely, whatever work you do, you should absolutely be paid for! The client can choose what they are willing to pay for, just as the photographer can decide what they're willing to do or not do. Which includes whether or not to even take the gig in the first place, but once you did choose to take it, you should be expected to do a reasonable job in good faith. Though, I just can not get over the concept that I should pay you for something that you get to own. Where else would that be considered reasonable and a normal practice in employment or commerce? Of course that's to your advantage, and you want that, I just don't understand the arrogance of thinking that I should also want that, and that it's somehow advantageous to me in any way. I also get that it's to your advantage that it becomes an industry standard that all wedding photographers do, so that as a potential client, you've muscled me out of having any other choice, but if I could find a better deal, then why wouldn't I take it? If you're so worried about your reputation, and ability to get hired, then why wouldn't you want to build a reputation as the photographer that can do the job that was asked for, and that always has satisfied customers?
I'm not necessarily defending this bride, or attacking photographers. I think your take on this video has been pretty resonable, and I don't think this photographer was being malicious. I think she just wasn't very good at communicating, and had maybe never had her work questined like this before, so just didn't know what to do, or how to handle it, and she painted herself into a corner that she didn't have to be in, but if I'm being honest, I'm kind of blown away by this attitude of, "That's how I do it! Take it or leave it, but it's that or nothing." To be fair, I don't think that's what she was saying, and had she known how to better deal with this, she would've, but the fact that it is a line in the sand that photographers have to hide behind, is a little bullshit. I'm sure there are plenty of times where that's actually legit, but my guess is that more people are going to use it when it isn't.
Richie it takes 5 seconds to Google the laws on fair use.
If your friend takes a picture of you on their phone... it's not yours until they send it to you. This is really quite simple.
She paid for an aesthetic and is doing a 180 bc her ego most likely got offended by someone who saw her photos 30 days later.
Thinking you paid 8k just for photos is like thinking you paid 400 bucks just for your brakes on a car. Most of it is time/effort... not to mention the client is also renting my gear costing several thousand dollars.
@@nickguzman1734if I pay my friend to take a photo of me that's a little different than my friend snapping a photo of me. Guess what? If a friend snaps a photo of me in my living room and I didn't want them to, I can absolutely sue to have their access to that photo removed.
@@nickguzman1734 ha, I wrote a whole thing in response to this that TH-cam is giving me crap about, and I don't know own that I care enough to bother with, but totally dude! How horrible it must've been for you to buy cool gear that you could make a living off! So horrible. You could've just sat around staring at the wall, but now you own cool things to play with, but that people expect you to use in a way that's worth them paying for. Your Life must be so horrible. If only you had no camera, and no one asking you to take a picture!
@richiecabral3602 so wierd that you got so triggered. It's just business buddy you don't ask for Whoppers when you go to burger King there's an expectation of what you will receive based on the original founder's vision.
@@nickguzman1734 triggered? This is your profession. Ha! This is how you pay your bills. I'm just an outsider with a vague opinion. I don't have anything to lose or gain from this. Point being, you'd think you'd care more about this than me
When you’re suggesting the bride and family go through the photos and choose ones for professional retouching, wouldn’t they be viewing the raws? And photographers don’t generally give out raws…?
Actually, when my wedding photographer send us pictures, they were in jpgs, not raws. He made us choose for the final digital bundle (high res but not to raws) and the pictures that will be in the wedding albums.
Great question. We cull the photos - so we go through and delete any that are blurry, not properly exposed, people blinking, etc. And yes they see the raws .....but a (small) resized, curated JPG version of the best shots. Personally I make small changes like brighten up and straighten out photos before sending proofs so they look more polished.
For my clients, proofs are only allowed for personal use and CANNOT be posted online for any reason. It's just for the clients to select their final photos from and for their own keepsake (some photographers add watermarks to these).
Keep in mind this is just how I personally do things as a photographer, everyone is different! This is a process that works for me :)
When my sister in law was looking at her wedding pictures they all had a watermark on them of the photographers logo. Don’t know if that is normal or not
Another way to go about it is, if you are going to edit 2,000 photos anyway (which you shouldn't send that much) is to edit more than what you promised them and allow them to choose which ones they like as their finals or allow them to purchase all of them. This way they already see your edits on the photos and can ask for adjustments right then and there. But you still need to set a limit on how much photos you send.
@@fae206The watermarks are normal, according to my experience with professional photographers.
This was a great summary of the whole debacle. I hope the photographer sees this and takes notes! Great video ❤
You know, a lot has changed in the past fifteen years if giving raws to a client isn't part of the contract. The last wedding my uncle did before he passed away, he streamlined everything. The couple bought his mid tier package, which included selection of twenty raws for personal use that they would own an the rights to, and 200 photos. The 200 photos included and initial batch edit which required the couples approval, and a second batch edit for half of the photos, as well as a touch-up to 10 of requested. The raws selection was done the day of by way of vote by the wedding party and included a limited number of photos that only had the bride, the groom, or both. The Couple came back one week after their honeymoon to select the remaining 180, batch edit was done two days later. The couple selected only 50 for a second edit a week later, and they didn't use the third. The cost breakdown when all was said and done was $1500 for the event, $5 per raw, $400 for initial batch processing, $300 for second edit, $200 for the touch-up edit, coming out to a total contract of $2500. He captured a total of 1000 pictures that day, and he collaborated with the videographer to get an idea about what the couple was looking for in edits.
I didn’t realize that I will hire and pay photographer for an event only to realize those photos are not mine at the end of the day. What do you mean buy copyright 😅😅 very interesting
That’s what i’m saying!! How are the photos not mine for MY EVENT that i hired u for?
Because the person who took the photo owns it not the people in it.
Think about a photo of a mountain. The mountain is the subject. The photo is the creative product of the photographer.
There's an interesting copyright case where a monkey actually clicked the shutter worth looking up.
Because the photographer by law owns the copyright and the bride is paying for a service and the personal use of those final images
@@kellywoodclark Yes the bride is paying for the service and the images which means the images BELONG to the bride so what’s the issue. The photographer can own the copywrite that’s fine. But the images belong to the bride
The bride is still making videos about the situation. And she just posted a video saying in general that half the photographers in the business are crazy. I think faults happened on both sides, but the bride going to TikTok and blasting the photographer and making a million videos about it makes her more in the wrong in my eyes.
As a hobbyist photographer, mostly doing landscapes, the world of professional wedding photography is completely unknown to me. Thanks for explaining and presenting this situation, and your point of view, in such a compelling, interesting and entertaining manner. I really enjoyed watching.
I love the idea of including the client in the selection process. Especially if you do family photography. Getting an idea for the types of images your client gravitates towards allows you to deliver more/better options next time. Obviously this concept is only applicable if you’re working with repeat clients but… I would love if I found a a photographer that could shoot my family year after year who could pay deference to my insecurities etc.