I have the same car, except it's the export model which came with the circular headlights, which I prefer. I bought it new and now, 23 years later, I am about to clock 320,000Kms. It comes with the full body kit in Championship White, production No. 0101. I take it to 9,000rpm regularly, but have never worked on the motor, except for replacing the timing belts a couple of times. This car has thrilled me for 23 years. Yes, it is noisy, but its rawness is what makes the car so special and it's really quite comfortable considering it was built to race. It'll be going to my son, but that may be a few years away yet. I'm 73 now and have loved every moment driving this car.
Wow...hats off to you Sir for having the dc2 for so long! I own mine for 13 years now. Also have the rounded "snake eyes" eudm model type r. I will never put her aside. Every time I drive her...she gives me a sensational smile on my face. So proud of her and Soichiro Honda❤️
@@sdi1111 Fair play Robert! 👍320k. Wow; I daily one myself(98 spec JDM in silver). Have done for 17 years. I'm only on 190k, so a baby compared to you. Still raw compared to anything modern(that isn't something like a Lotus) but being fully standard helps a _lot_ imho. No mad exhaust and standard suspension is a lot less twitchy over rough surfaces than coilovers with springs made of granite and means you can often actually push it more. The Recaros are fantastic seats. Rear seats are for kids, or adults who owe you money. 😄 Boot space is very usable, near van like with the back seats down. And it can do surprisingly good on petrol. IF you drive it like Greta Thunberg has a gun to your head. Which few do of course so never find out. And they're scarily reliable. Well it is a 90's Japanese car. Though as my mechanic mate said "no wonder it's reliable, it's just four wheels, an engine and seats. And you're lucky they gave you seats". 😄 It is so rotable and every journey feels "special" in a way. One issue is rust. Unless you live in a desert these need anti rust protection like a fish needs water.
@@MrGrentch Thanks for the enthusiasm. This car is very special! As you say, it is raw and basic, but who wants much else? All the electronic shit on these new cars only leads to incredible ongoing expense. My car has cost me less than $10,000 over 22 years, which includes 4 sets of tires, 2 distributors, one wheel bearing, one set of brake pads (replaced at 224,000Kms) and a radiator - all serviced by myself! No problem with rust and we do live by the sea. The engine sounds and feels smoother every day - no rattles or squeaks. It gives me untold pleasure to drive, and although I know most hot hatches are much quicker, I can't part with it. It's an experience you have to experience!
The DC2’s will always have a special place in my heart. My father had a white GS-R 5 speed manual (the trim level below the legendary Type-R) and that thing was stunning until we upgraded to the Accord Euro and the rest is history… Would love to buy a bashed up one and restore it one day.
I have a 1999 Type R...was going to give it to my son, but he doesn't appreciate its value. I live on the Central Coast, just 50Km from Sydney. The car has clocked 326,000Kms and still going strong, but blows a little smoke in V-TEC mode. Ready to trade in or sell privately. Championship White..production No. 0101.
I had a stock, unmodified 1999 model, owned during 2002-2004. Used as a daily driver, but the sheer amount of (somewhat-excessive) giving it some beans around the country roads of Wiltshire and Cotswalds (UK).... ooohh, it was bliss! Only reason I sold was I relocated to Japan in 2004, otherwise I would have kept longer. 20 years older, it's the one car I miss.
my 88 CRX use to let the back end out also at speed, but it wasn't lowered so I could take speed humps at speed. The most fun car I've had. handled bumps like a champ
@@KiwiCarLife I could clutch start it myself if the ground was flat also, car weighed nothing, could run off fumes, red lined daily and never ever died.
So ignoring the earlier rant. I will say this: yep the DC2R is insane. I adore mine. However, as a daily, not as bad as you'd think actually. Mine is nowhere near as modified, its mostly in an OEM+ form with just some close to factory spec coilovers at factory height and a full exhaust+headers. I used to daily mine, for nearly 2 years actually. Factory spec is nowhere near as solid as this one, and while yes I also had to take those same horrible roadwork bumps on Highbrook drive you went through there at walking pace, general ride comfort honestly is pretty acceptable. Its comfortable to sit in with the SR3 recaros, and it cruises along quite nicely in rush hour honestly, its quite civilized at low speeds just doting around town. Its even got a heap of boot space, Ive fit surprising amounts of stuff in the boot of that car. The only real "downside" is the noise from the lack of sound deadening. But I just turn the stereo up and its all good. And then when you do get to let it rip, you are in for a glorious time with an impossible to remove grin on your face. Ive owned my DC2 for 5 years now and it still puts a massive smile on my face every time I drive it.
Fair enough, but having driven a dc5 every day to and from work for a year, it's unbearable. If you think a dc2 is comfortable, that doesn't mean it actually is. It's just you're ok with an unrefined driving experience. And that's all good! But the vast majority of people would find a dc2 an absolutely terrible daily. Hence why I bought an accord
@@KiwiCarLife i suppose, I do have a daily now but thats because I wanted to stop putting Ks on my teg and less because it wasnt a comfortable car to drive. I havent driven a DC5R so I dont know how that would compare as a driving experience.
I wouldn't have anything against having it as a daily driver, having fun every single morning and afternoon on the way to work and back home. It is definitely f... impressive how much power they got from a 1.8l engine, now I know that I can definitely reach that mark on my 1999 Accord type R 😉
Driving to and from work is not fun, and is made less fun by driving an uncomfortable car. That's why cars like the m3 exist. Because they're equally as great to drive on a back road but can still do the daily driver duties competently
What in the hell does this thing have done to it to make this sort of power? That’s more than most K series builds I’ve seen, is it a B20 block? I’d love to have a 90’s era Honda chassis with a K series at heart. B series sound absolutely amazing but their age makes me question their reliability. 10/10 video as always though mate, great to see you get behind the wheel of this little screamer!
FWD LSD the feel as it pulls you around and out of the corner is really one of the coolest experiences with FWD cars. this is an epic car, big bucks spent but in the warped world view of a rev head , totally worth it.
@@KiwiCarLife no they are worth what you see people asking for roughly, i do some work regularly for an auctionhouse and they have sold 5 or 6 of the dc2's in the past year alone
I daily a non-vtec dc4 with a b18b1, and it is pretty rough in terms of ride quality. If the road is bad, you'll definitely know haha. On the freeway, all I hear is road-noise and rattle. But find a smooth twisty road and the car shines. Idk though, I'm kinda on the fence and want something more comfortable like an Accord, but I love it much. 🤷♂
It's a old car 20+ yrs old bro work on the suspension bushing change all the old rubber get good coilovers teins feel like stock do that & that dc4 will feel great I have a dc2 I replaced every single suspension part shit drives like a dream
@@budgetbuild914 That’s the plan. I know the shocks on it are worn and there are torn bushes that need replacing. Gonna get coils and have the bushes done soon, hopefully it helps.
I've had my 1995 Integra sedan for 24 yrs. I semi-daily drive it and don't find it uncomfortable, although comfort is subjective. Mine has H&R Street Performance coilovers which have relatively low spring rates: f: 325 lbs (5.8k) / r: 235 lbs (4k). As an older vehicle, it has it's rattles but being well-modified, I relish the cool factor and visceral nature more than I would a cushy but boring car. I'm unspoiled by modern car standards though, being that my other cars are a 1994 Prelude (owned 27 yrs) and an Exo X.
@@xenonsaccord4447 In stock form they're fine, it's only if you start modifying they reach their limits. But basically every new car is strut front and multi-link rear so it's not uncommon
B17a1...... My boi Jon Mo. Had one that would rev out to 11,5k shifting at 9.7-10k back in early '13 he used to beat another friend with hondata on a Rsx-R
Not worth it unless you have the money to modify it, they aren't that great in stock form. I owned a Type R DC5 before getting a DC2 Type R because people said the DC2 was better, guess what... it wasn't. If you are going to throw money away on overpriced rusty Honda's then go with a S2K, by far the best Honda i have owned as long as you have another car for carting people around.
@@araybeezy1653 Those engines are from the 80's and 90's. Every modern counterpart: 2GR, VQ35, 4B11T, 2ZZ, skyactiv, k24, everything these days is alloy block.
I had itr years ago. my friend broke engine of it by shift error. I put atr engine in it and made almost same power. i dont thing 40hp is even hard to gain na engine. have seen 500hp na hondas also. It is just stupid to build smth like that :D
Those BC coilovers are absolute garbage uhggg🤦 if you thought that handled even remotely good you have no idea how much better a dc2 on proper quality coilovers (some Ohlins/KW/quantum/h&r/JRZ/eibach) setup & dialed to chassis w/ correct spring rates matched to frequencies of dc2 & w/ correctly valved in tune w/ said spring rates will 100% blow your mind compared to generic BC coilovers shock body universal valving body just different brackets w/ non chassis specific spring rates incorrect travel per ride height compression vs rebound ratio in turn ruined geometry & roll center way off nothing is worse than BC racing and equivalent "coilovers"
On my DB8 I've had Eibach Pro-kit springs with Bilstein HD dampers and with Koni Sports and now H&R Street Performance coilovers. All are comparable to each other in feel and handling and provide a quality, moderate upgrade for a good performing and fairly comfortable street car without much harshness. (The Pro-kit springs only lower about 1.25" and I kept the H&Rs to about the same to avoid having to deal with any roll center issues.)
I have the same car, except it's the export model which came with the circular headlights, which I prefer. I bought it new and now, 23 years later, I am about to clock 320,000Kms. It comes with the full body kit in Championship White, production No. 0101. I take it to 9,000rpm regularly, but have never worked on the motor, except for replacing the timing belts a couple of times. This car has thrilled me for 23 years. Yes, it is noisy, but its rawness is what makes the car so special and it's really quite comfortable considering it was built to race. It'll be going to my son, but that may be a few years away yet. I'm 73 now and have loved every moment driving this car.
Awesome man!
Wow...hats off to you Sir for having the dc2 for so long!
I own mine for 13 years now. Also have the rounded "snake eyes" eudm model type r. I will never put her aside. Every time I drive her...she gives me a sensational smile on my face. So proud of her and Soichiro Honda❤️
@@chiefslief1886 well, you know what I mean. The Integra Type R is a special car.
@@sdi1111 Fair play Robert! 👍320k. Wow; I daily one myself(98 spec JDM in silver). Have done for 17 years. I'm only on 190k, so a baby compared to you. Still raw compared to anything modern(that isn't something like a Lotus) but being fully standard helps a _lot_ imho. No mad exhaust and standard suspension is a lot less twitchy over rough surfaces than coilovers with springs made of granite and means you can often actually push it more.
The Recaros are fantastic seats. Rear seats are for kids, or adults who owe you money. 😄 Boot space is very usable, near van like with the back seats down. And it can do surprisingly good on petrol. IF you drive it like Greta Thunberg has a gun to your head. Which few do of course so never find out.
And they're scarily reliable. Well it is a 90's Japanese car. Though as my mechanic mate said "no wonder it's reliable, it's just four wheels, an engine and seats. And you're lucky they gave you seats". 😄
It is so rotable and every journey feels "special" in a way. One issue is rust. Unless you live in a desert these need anti rust protection like a fish needs water.
@@MrGrentch Thanks for the enthusiasm. This car is very special! As you say, it is raw and basic, but who wants much else? All the electronic shit on these new cars only leads to incredible ongoing expense. My car has cost me less than $10,000 over 22 years, which includes 4 sets of tires, 2 distributors, one wheel bearing, one set of brake pads (replaced at 224,000Kms) and a radiator - all serviced by myself! No problem with rust and we do live by the sea. The engine sounds and feels smoother every day - no rattles or squeaks. It gives me untold pleasure to drive, and although I know most hot hatches are much quicker, I can't part with it. It's an experience you have to experience!
Honda really did produce the best NA engines.
Absolutely
Toyota/Yamaha as well
Don't forget the Nissan pulsar vzr n1 1.6 made 200bhp
Toyota too not only Honda
Honda only had VTEC
Look at Toyota
"No your opinion is wrong, because look at brand X"
No. It is my opinion.
The DC2’s will always have a special place in my heart. My father had a white GS-R 5 speed manual (the trim level below the legendary Type-R) and that thing was stunning until we upgraded to the Accord Euro and the rest is history…
Would love to buy a bashed up one and restore it one day.
That would be very cool to do!
I have a 1999 Type R...was going to give it to my son, but he doesn't appreciate its value. I live on the Central Coast, just 50Km from Sydney. The car has clocked 326,000Kms and still going strong, but blows a little smoke in V-TEC mode. Ready to trade in or sell privately. Championship White..production No. 0101.
Saw this listed on TM for ages, awesome to see a video on it 👍
Yeah it's been up for a bit. Not sure if it sold yet
I had a stock, unmodified 1999 model, owned during 2002-2004. Used as a daily driver, but the sheer amount of (somewhat-excessive) giving it some beans around the country roads of Wiltshire and Cotswalds (UK).... ooohh, it was bliss!
Only reason I sold was I relocated to Japan in 2004, otherwise I would have kept longer.
20 years older, it's the one car I miss.
Yeah man they're pretty awesome little things aye
You should have put it in storage - only skyrocketing in value!
nice review! i love that 90's honda's
Thanks
my 88 CRX use to let the back end out also at speed, but it wasn't lowered so I could take speed humps at speed. The most fun car I've had. handled bumps like a champ
Oh yeah the old Honda's handled very uniquely
@@KiwiCarLife I could clutch start it myself if the ground was flat also, car weighed nothing, could run off fumes, red lined daily and never ever died.
So ignoring the earlier rant. I will say this: yep the DC2R is insane. I adore mine.
However, as a daily, not as bad as you'd think actually. Mine is nowhere near as modified, its mostly in an OEM+ form with just some close to factory spec coilovers at factory height and a full exhaust+headers.
I used to daily mine, for nearly 2 years actually. Factory spec is nowhere near as solid as this one, and while yes I also had to take those same horrible roadwork bumps on Highbrook drive you went through there at walking pace, general ride comfort honestly is pretty acceptable.
Its comfortable to sit in with the SR3 recaros, and it cruises along quite nicely in rush hour honestly, its quite civilized at low speeds just doting around town. Its even got a heap of boot space, Ive fit surprising amounts of stuff in the boot of that car. The only real "downside" is the noise from the lack of sound deadening. But I just turn the stereo up and its all good.
And then when you do get to let it rip, you are in for a glorious time with an impossible to remove grin on your face. Ive owned my DC2 for 5 years now and it still puts a massive smile on my face every time I drive it.
Fair enough, but having driven a dc5 every day to and from work for a year, it's unbearable. If you think a dc2 is comfortable, that doesn't mean it actually is. It's just you're ok with an unrefined driving experience. And that's all good! But the vast majority of people would find a dc2 an absolutely terrible daily. Hence why I bought an accord
@@KiwiCarLife i suppose, I do have a daily now but thats because I wanted to stop putting Ks on my teg and less because it wasnt a comfortable car to drive. I havent driven a DC5R so I dont know how that would compare as a driving experience.
I wouldn't have anything against having it as a daily driver, having fun every single morning and afternoon on the way to work and back home.
It is definitely f... impressive how much power they got from a 1.8l engine, now I know that I can definitely reach that mark on my 1999 Accord type R 😉
Driving to and from work is not fun, and is made less fun by driving an uncomfortable car. That's why cars like the m3 exist. Because they're equally as great to drive on a back road but can still do the daily driver duties competently
What in the hell does this thing have done to it to make this sort of power? That’s more than most K series builds I’ve seen, is it a B20 block? I’d love to have a 90’s era Honda chassis with a K series at heart. B series sound absolutely amazing but their age makes me question their reliability. 10/10 video as always though mate, great to see you get behind the wheel of this little screamer!
Not sure and frankly it didn't feel like 182ow to me. But that's what the owner said haha
@@KiwiCarLife I mean mine never would lose traction like that in first.
I’d say it’s 182kw at the crank? Even that isn’t really believable when even most built b20v make 150kw MAX
FWD LSD the feel as it pulls you around and out of the corner is really one of the coolest experiences with FWD cars.
this is an epic car, big bucks spent but in the warped world view of a rev head , totally worth it.
Yeah it's pretty sick
Would love to see a review on the Toyota Starlet EP82/91 someday! Keen to hear what you'd think of such a car :)
Could be interesting
That Vtec crossover is fantastic.
In standard unmolested mint condition these are worth heaps now.
Not "worth", people are asking heaps
@@KiwiCarLife no they are worth what you see people asking for roughly, i do some work regularly for an auctionhouse and they have sold 5 or 6 of the dc2's in the past year alone
Great car! You ever think about having the owners talk with you about the cars on video?
Not really I think it would just add bloat to the video. I try keep them concise
I bloody love B18 engine, my dads MB6 had B18C4, god that car was fast with 124kw
Oh yeah in a light stiff chassis they go so well
I daily a non-vtec dc4 with a b18b1, and it is pretty rough in terms of ride quality. If the road is bad, you'll definitely know haha. On the freeway, all I hear is road-noise and rattle. But find a smooth twisty road and the car shines. Idk though, I'm kinda on the fence and want something more comfortable like an Accord, but I love it much. 🤷♂
Yeah I'm the same. Appreciate the dc2 and agree on the right road it's sensational. But I couldn't own one
It's a old car 20+ yrs old bro work on the suspension bushing change all the old rubber get good coilovers teins feel like stock do that & that dc4 will feel great I have a dc2 I replaced every single suspension part shit drives like a dream
@@budgetbuild914 like a dream? Or like a 20 year old car with a few replaced bushings?
I hear you, Starlet Glanza and now Suzuki swift (Ignis) sport 1.5 vvti, craving something more comfortable/ less rattles but still a drivers car.
@@budgetbuild914 That’s the plan. I know the shocks on it are worn and there are torn bushes that need replacing. Gonna get coils and have the bushes done soon, hopefully it helps.
Mad cars, I have always been a fan!
Nice!
Cool car :-) One of the few Honda's i'd never owned :( Greetz from Holland!
Nice!
Beautiful sound and car!
I really like that rear bumper. ❤️👍🏻
It is lovely
At 3.27 the Audi A3 is trying to keep up lol.
Haha yeah he was on the move
rrrrrrrrrrrrrr...WAAAAHHHH!!!!! I love the scream on this car 👌
Haha yeah it's cool aye
Should do a TEV Nissan Primera, not exactly a king with handling but the SR20VE is a great engine and definitely worthy of a review.
Yeah could be cool
I've had my 1995 Integra sedan for 24 yrs. I semi-daily drive it and don't find it uncomfortable, although comfort is subjective. Mine has H&R Street Performance coilovers which have relatively low spring rates: f: 325 lbs (5.8k) / r: 235 lbs (4k). As an older vehicle, it has it's rattles but being well-modified, I relish the cool factor and visceral nature more than I would a cushy but boring car.
I'm unspoiled by modern car standards though, being that my other cars are a 1994 Prelude (owned 27 yrs) and an Exo X.
Very nice yeah I’m sure if you set it up right it would be comfortable enough, but me personally I wouldn’t want to daily a DC2 haha
@@KiwiCarLife 😊
what are you doing in Auckland? you should try find someone with a Manual Caldina GTT, mine is still work in progress.
I filmed a bunch of videos up there in May. They'll be coming out over the next few weeks
@@KiwiCarLife Where are you based mate?
Incredible car! Has this car sold yet? Seen it on Trademe a while ago. Would you prefer a DC2 over a Dc5 now having experienced driving this beast?
Definitely still dc5 but I'd have a type s with the k20z1 engine
@@KiwiCarLife The MacPherson suspension geometry on the DC5s aren’t that bad are they?
@@xenonsaccord4447 In stock form they're fine, it's only if you start modifying they reach their limits. But basically every new car is strut front and multi-link rear so it's not uncommon
@@KiwiCarLife Indeed. I guess I’ve been spoiled by the Accord’s double wishbone setup haha. Thanks man
97 Integra type R hunter green with the hatch
Yes
I myself own a 1991 DA9 LS audm, would love to own a dc2r like this
Would recommend
I have the plates YAWN on my CL9 in Queensland!
Haha nice
B17a1...... My boi Jon Mo. Had one that would rev out to 11,5k shifting at 9.7-10k back in early '13 he used to beat another friend with hondata on a Rsx-R
Wow
I wonder who's overrating dyno they used, just doesn't seem to get through those short gears that quick for 182wkw.
Yeah agree felt more like 160wkw
My FN2R with whiteline rear sway bar slides around like a rear wheel drive car when I lift off and it doesn't have an LSD
Hoho that’s epic
182KW na????????? WTF this is insane.
Ikr
What a drivers car
Indeed
That's sick!
Hey you weren't supposed to find this it's not released yet haha
@@KiwiCarLife really?
@@KiwiCarLife well I guess I should keep it nice and quiet
@@edmund111 the only way you could have found it was through the playlists as it's unlisted haha
@@KiwiCarLife yeah I was binge watching all the reviews
You can just the accord to handle just like this. I put a fat sway bar in the rear and I can out handle any rsx or dc2 I run into
Yeah probably
Nah electronic power steering feels way different used to own a cl7 euro r with all suspension mods done there is no way it will out handle my 98 spec
I fucking love it
That's good haha
OMG. I love it
Lovely
East Tamaki?
Indeed
you should review an aristo v300
Did a chaser it's pretty similar
💪
Yuuuurs
i've bought the car! wondering if i can get more info from you :)
I don’t know anything about this other than what’s in the video
She,s a beauty like herr engine look style great 01.honda integra yaaaay 😍🤩🤍🤍🤍🤍🤍 great video friend respect😎👍👏
Good car
@@KiwiCarLife yaaaay! Hello from croatia we love 90,s early 2000,s jdm cars i hope you collect hot wheels jdm cars i have 01.custom honda acura
still have the baby seat tho
Haha recaro branded too
182kw from an NA 1.8 is insane. I want to get a dc2 for my first car but I’m not sure about it yet.
Yeah and the prices are equally as insane!
Not worth it unless you have the money to modify it, they aren't that great in stock form. I owned a Type R DC5 before getting a DC2 Type R because people said the DC2 was better, guess what... it wasn't. If you are going to throw money away on overpriced rusty Honda's then go with a S2K, by far the best Honda i have owned as long as you have another car for carting people around.
@@HashDogg06 agree
Hi brother, love the videos, can you please tell me if I can find a Mugen replica kit for the Accord Cu2 sedan in New Zealand?
Best of luck haha. Very hard to find
Why buy replica stuff? Aids
The Integra Type R is the closest car to the race car version. This car had no carbon or aluminum parts and still weighed 1060kg. No car like it.
they use an aluminum block/head engine and transmission case. the whole drivetrain is a featherweight
@@araybeezy1653 every car uses an aluminum block and head these days?
@@KiwiCarLife Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota, and Mazda all used iron block engines for several decades. 2JZ, RB26, 4g63, 4AGE, 13b etc. all cast iron.
@@araybeezy1653 Those engines are from the 80's and 90's. Every modern counterpart: 2GR, VQ35, 4B11T, 2ZZ, skyactiv, k24, everything these days is alloy block.
4 stud wheels in these older type R's?
mhm
4 stud in 96 spec, 5 stud in 98 spec
epix car
Yesss
Have the same engine in a civic ek.
Nice
I had itr years ago. my friend broke engine of it by shift error. I put atr engine in it and made almost same power. i dont thing 40hp is even hard to gain na engine. have seen 500hp na hondas also. It is just stupid to build smth like that :D
Yeah man they have heaps of potential
Defs not 180wkw but such a nice car
Yeah lotta people suggesting that. The owner has dyno sheets...
You might get demonetised for Honda pron😋
Hahah
250 bhp and sound like some of those horses are geeting out
Yeah frankly I'm not convinced it was 182wkw tbh. 182 crank for sure but not wheel. Felt a lot faster than a stock dc5 though
You’re not driving it right..
New zeal and¿
Yes
Body kit doesn't fit the car
Fair enough
That front bumper is gross
It's just a bumper
@@KiwiCarLife stock bumper looks good and if you want more put a lip on it thats got weird curves that just don't fit with the cars shape
2nd : - )
Well done
Those BC coilovers are absolute garbage uhggg🤦 if you thought that handled even remotely good you have no idea how much better a dc2 on proper quality coilovers (some Ohlins/KW/quantum/h&r/JRZ/eibach) setup & dialed to chassis w/ correct spring rates matched to frequencies of dc2 & w/ correctly valved in tune w/ said spring rates will 100% blow your mind compared to generic BC coilovers shock body universal valving body just different brackets w/ non chassis specific spring rates incorrect travel per ride height compression vs rebound ratio in turn ruined geometry & roll center way off nothing is worse than BC racing and equivalent "coilovers"
Ah yes
On my DB8 I've had Eibach Pro-kit springs with Bilstein HD dampers and with Koni Sports and now H&R Street Performance coilovers. All are comparable to each other in feel and handling and provide a quality, moderate upgrade for a good performing and fairly comfortable street car without much harshness.
(The Pro-kit springs only lower about 1.25" and I kept the H&Rs to about the same to avoid having to deal with any roll center issues.)