I love how elegantly you say big truths about this game and also give credit where's due,but where you make the difference from other ppl that judge the isle on videos is that you give viable and very interesting ideas on how to help this game reach it's potential(and i think it has tons of potential)! I'd also like to see you comment on why they bring so many useless small dinos before mid tier+ ! Gj overall keep it up 🎉
Thanks man!! Also if you wanna hear my opinion on that sorta thing, I kinda cover that in my previous video abt this game. I don't think those creatures are useless, they're very good as AI (so filling the world with life) they're just not so great playables cause ppl will always prefer playing the bigger things.
I find it weird that they don't want this to be a death match game yet the mechanics force it to be. all dinos fr have shit hunger drain, for carnivores, organs give almost no diets so they have to kill a couple players to get a good diet, if they don't, they get punished by the shit mechanic, but devs don't like that so to "fix" the issue they make everyone have shit stamina D: it's just a walking starving simulator.
A territory/marking system for lone carnivores would be sick. Build out a perimeter with your scent and get buffs based on territory size. Get notifications if other scents invade, and maybe spawn your preferred AI prey if the conditions of the region are correct. The real threat is other apex's invading and demanding your territory.
The biggest issue for me is that the game heavily encourages a slow pace - Demonstrated by the new stamina changes, but also the need for most carnivores to ambush. However, this is significantly restricted by the hunger drain. Carno for instance is an ambusher with low stam, but waiting in a spot readying to ambush anything is near impossible. Carno is pretty much required to be constantly on the move or else you run the risk of not finding food fast enough and quickly starving to death, or at the very least being crippled due to a poor diet. This applies to omni and cera as well. The devs want a slower pace, but the hunger and stam systems require you to be constantly on the move looking for food. And not just quantity, but variety as well. A bad diet makes it even harder to secure food. In my opinion, the food drains way too fast for the intended purpose and playstyle of carnivores. The devs want to encourage a slower experience and not a pvp deathmatch, and yet killing everything you can is encouraged because you constantly need food. As for the stamina system, I don't mind it. Similarly, I almost exclusively walk everywhere as well. What I absolutely hate about it though is that they also applied it to low tier dinos. Dondi says that he doesn't want things like ptera to not be functionally immortal, so they crippled its stamina; but I really don't see that point. Why should it take ptera 4+ minutes to regen its stamina so it can use its only form of locomotion? The appeal of low tiers should be their agility and low maintenance, but if their stamina is going to be the same (or worse for that matter) than larger dinos, with little to no upsides, then why play them? Why play troodon, when it's just an objectively worse omni? - Also, I love your idea for dynamic stamina regen when trotting. It's baffling how you could come up with that, but the entire dev team could only think of nerfing everything's stam into the ground, and expecting everything to work out. I think ptera got the shortest end of the stick in gateway, and only because Dondi doesn't like them (From what he's said). It's night vision is abysmal. It's stamina regen is one of the worst in the game. Nesting with it is actively worse than just spawning it, and takes up to an hour just to start up. It can't fight anything besides AI (Unless you count hatchlings, which is like winning the lottery). Getting all three diets is next to impossible. It's hunger and water drain so fast you could die during the night if you're not careful. - And its only positive is that it can fly. That's just a spectator camera with chores at that point. It's no wonder I never see any. Overall, I think gateway is a massive improvement. The game feels like an actual survival sim compared to before. But there are still massive areas of improvement left.
You make a good point- however I feel hunger drain would be probably okay if there was reliable and consistent prey in and around migration zones (AI, baybeeee)- especially b/c you can get all three nutrients from one animal (provided it isn't one of the modern AI animals). Tho that is true, hunger drain rn does feel kinda like a blink and then you're starving deal lol also yeah I realllyyyy dont get why Ptera's stam was hit so bad. Like yeah it's do-able. I can survive as the creature. It's just. Not fun to (if its rly cause Dondi 'doesnt like ptera' honestly that would track considering his behaviour). And with the lower tiers as well yeah it just- whyyy. The new stam system just doesn't feel very well thought out and is kind of just a band-aid on a broken leg. I get what they were going for- but this ain't it. I'm glad you like my suggestion also, thankyou! but yeah I agree. This update I feel is a step in the right direction, but yeah absolutely still a long way to go.
@@MyUniverseinaBox yea the stamina messes ptera's up because it takes so long to recharge, you'll be either starving or thirsty again by the time its full enough to fly. It's essentially like they're trying to keep you from scouting out the island. (either thqat or they're trying to adda degree of realism because reptiles do have a hard time recovering stamina. but these are warm blooded and birds being the only dinosaurs alive, don't have that problem) As for hunger. There seems to be considerably fewer schooling fish and the ones there are you can't really see because of the new water effects so a lot of people end up starving on the lake. I flew until I starved when I was searching the river coming from the lake and again on the coastline where the turtles and crabs are supposed to be.
I suggest you use scent more often and learn how to track things since most often, people will hang around bodies and places with a lot of plants that give diets for herbivores. So if you really need to eat check for foot prints and hide around a body or plant that you know for sure someone will come by or just eat the body if it’s a part of your diet
"Starving to death because there is nothing for you to hunt isn't fun. It just feels completely unfair and based on luck" Couldn't have said it better myself. I have 2 fully grown raptors on 2 servers. But everytime I think about logging on and playing I think: "But what if I don’t get lucky and starve to death?" And then I just don't play.
Legacy at least has ai spawning near you when you’re hungry. On gateway you either stay where everybody else is to eat or starve going anywhere else as a carnivore.
worst part is, the "luck" part isn't that nothing spawned around you, it's that stuff explicitly spawns near big quantities of people and you can die simply due to guessing the hotspot wrong
I've found that east and north plains is amazing at spawning ai, in most times. I play almost religiously only on a realism server, and I ALWAYS died to starvation because of ai troubles. So recently I've been packing with people and learnt that these two places are a haven for carnivores (if no one else knows this).
As a big monster hunter fan I think the sharpening/honing claws would be really cool. It'd encourage some downtime in fighting and it could play into the tracking system, with carnivores being able to tell what animal left the scratches and a vague indication of how old it is
I saw a cool suggestion in the feedback channel on discord that talked about having an "energy" meter alongside the stam icon that is drained by sprinting around and fighting which reduces stamina regen the lower it is. This energy meter would go back up while resting or sleeping (and maybe very slowly while walking/trotting), with its regen dependent on how much food/water the player has. With this energy meter, players are incentivized to conserve their stamina as to maintain high energy levels and faster stam regen, without being overly penalized for using their stamina when they actually need to.
What's kinda wild is that I don't even play this game (yet, anyway. I've been debating getting it for a while) and I'm not in the Discord, but as I was watching the part of this video about stamina, I had pretty much the same idea
I agree heavily on a territory system. I mostly only play on realism servers because official servers are so unfair - with players still hunting for fun even if they're not hungry. Territory systems would make it clear to players that you're actively invading someone's territory, and would make sense for the territory owners to attack you, instead of not knowing why. Maybe you would be able to mark, with urine or some sort, and then when marked in around a circle shape, the territory space inside the urine circle would turn red. The only way to see if you're in someone's territory is by sniffing - meaning humans can't see because they cannot smell it. ( 😈). But small things like this will really make the game amazing.
A point to add to the herrera for the recent update for the stam issues, the fact that the whole point of herrera is to stay in the trees and jump from tree to tree to travel around and hunt is cool. However when leaping takes so much stamina and it takes forever to regain it, the game feels like its punishing you for playing the dino how its meant to be played if you have to constantly rest for stamina to do the thing the dino was designed to do. I would suggest they either lower the stam cost for leaping as a Herrera, or add something so while in trees you use less stamina or regain it faster while resting in them. That way it keeps its playstyle and encourages people to use the trees more for traveling. At the moment I find it more viable to run on foot than using trees cause of the stamina to distance ratio.
Unfortunately for myself, the stamina update completely destroys my play style. I'm the type of player that likes to aimlessly sprint around the whole map. I'm the type of player that adored The Endless Forest while it was around - which, if you're unfamiliar, is quite literally a playable screen saver; there's not even pvp or hunting, just you and other players wandering around a forest as magical deer. This is basically how I play EVERY open world game - whether it's oblivion, breath of the wild, minecraft, whatever. There's definitely a balance of "just enough limitation that makes it fun to survive" and "so limited that it feels like you're being punished for playing" like hyper limited stamina. In my perfect world, this game would function like Red Dead 2: limitations that make success fun, but not so much so that it feels impossible to play, with options for being completely aimless, or accomplishing a goal/fighting other players. But that's all WAY easier said than done
Honestly completely valid! I've never played RD2, but I get what you mean. It's hard to strike a balance, then you also have the fact that the devs will just have different ideas in mind for how they want their game to feel as well. I think a lot of this variation between what people want the game to be like comes from the fact that this game hasn't had a solid base since it was released. But yeah, totally get you.
So...I haven't played the isle yet, It did interest me but seeing so many negative criticisms made me rethink it. Thus, the only other wildlife survival game that I have ever played is Wolfquest. Even though it is definitely VERY different from the isle, It does have some similar fundamentals. I may be tripping, but I think that it is a good example of how a survival wildlife game could be, even though, like said, it's very different. The game is mostly single, but it does have a multiplayer mode, and obviously, by the name you can guess that it is about wolves, so this is another great difference. But still, it's an indie game, and the level of improvement is insane, the devs are constantly updating and openly showing the development process, asking tips from the players and using great science on the foundations behind the game. I do plan on playing the isle in the future, if the devs work to improve it.
I like your idea on the stamina. The way I see is like separating "stamina" from "exhaustion". Problem is figuring out how to display that on the HUD without cluttering it ontop of the sickness debuff... Edit: You are so on point about player agency. I think this game would be a completely different beast if they put more focus on this area, and made the difficulty come from actual challenge more than this RNG time-wasting that it often ends up to be.
Oh that's an interesting idea :0 and thanks! It's always annoyed me when ppl would just repeat over and over that having no AI is good cAuSE iT mAkES ThE GaME DiFFiCuLt. It'd be like if they removed all water sources and they had like a 10% chance of appearing randomly somewhere and theres no way you could know where it would be. like lmao
As a near full time Ptera player who has figured out how to play around using lots of stamina during flight, and someone who started playing the game shortly after the Gateway patch, I still think it needs massive tweaks improving the way it works for them. Going to zero on the ground is nearly a death sentence because they have no defensive and nearly no offensive capability, and regen from zero can take five to ten real time minutes, that’s tough for limited playtime people. I think regen for them especially must be bugged because the time needed seems random. Starving or dehydration is rampant when starting out due to being effectively benched for trying to learn flight or trying to learn fish (I learned both by switched to abandoned Spiro servers, where fish is plentiful and stamina is quick to regen), putting you in a spiral where you can’t reach food or water due to just not having the Stam or ground speed needed to get to it in time. As a personal note, I think it's time for these creature sim, especially Dino sim, games to stop caring about being designed around an MP experience and build a solidly realized single-player PvE game that can LATER be expanded into an MP update or spinoff. Too many of these dino games lack a solid core design base and end up stagnating or imploding due to trying to rig such in AFTER launch while also maintaining and responding to active players.
Yeah the ptera stam thing is a real mess. I didn't even think of new players who have to learn how to skim for fish n such. Honestly it's very doable to survive as a ptera with this new stam system, but it's certainly not fun. ALSO MAN. SPITTIN' FACTS. I think I know why many of these dino sims start out as the multiplayer type and that's b/c it's just easier. These are indie games we're talking about- but that doesn't excuse it. They've set out to make a survival game so either do that, or don't. These games are always labelled and balanced as survival ones but seldom have the components to make it such; leaving it as a broken, empty, mess- where people try to play it like a dino deathmatch which does not work because it's not balanced or set up for that. SO when they try to start adding those components necessary for a survival game, the community that has grown so used to only having PvP often doesn't like it. It's just a mess, really- I hope The Isle can find their way out of it one of these days. Anyways sorry for the rambling, you just activated my brain AGUYTDWGUY
@@MyUniverseinaBox Wish I'd seen this reply sooner, but it works out cause I and others got so much to say about the latest patch which broke the food situation with most species, bugged the fish into near nonexistence (and for awhile MIGRATION ZONES) making ptera and beipis nearly impossible to survive with, FPS drops for no reason I can grasp (including at my fav hangout location), so many issues. And I'm still struggling with sta recovery with the resting buff if it's even working correctly. The game frankly is in developmental crisis, part of me thinks they need to sit down and reevaluate what game they want to make, fully develop the survival and activities of life and reliably of such before they add a single new dino, accept it having to be a pure dino sim and drop the human/mutant stuff nobody cares about (and they hate pvp, but wth do they think will happen when humans/mutants get added? what else COULD happen? WHAT IS THEIR PLAN?)... and part of me thinks the game just needs a new developer entirely or at least an enormous culling of leadership out of lack of faith in it. I also think doing that after already doing it with Legacy could send a message that would be the final straw and send the playerbase spiraling to oblivion. I don't blame you for a long write, clearly the whole dino life sim invokes a passion in people. Which unfortunately has led to the current situation where the people who want one keep on buying and playing and making excuses for this/these game which would have been rightfully buried in any other genre for obvious poor quality and poor developers. It's a sad state of affairs, especially considering The Isle IS the closest we got to the pure immersive experience wanted but I doubt they can pull it off in the long run or even if that's what they want.
Wow I loved this video! I really like your commentarys and Speedpaints, your one of the people that inspired me to start making my own. I really like the points you brought up in the video, like the diseases and sharpening claws
abt carnivore migrations: the carnivores dont have any migration zones of their own but are instead directed to the nearest migration zone of their preferred prey
I definitely agree with the longer you trot, the more stam you get, currently it just isn’t fair that trotting doesn’t regenerate your stam and the walking speed for most animals makes very little difference to sitting aswell
I’m not saying stamina shouldn’t be a valued resource. I’m just saying it’d be nice if pressing my shift key wasn’t a death sentence if my hunt lasts more than 2min. Stamina regen should be faster than exhausting it. You should be punished for wasting a full bar of stam, but rewarded for keeping it topped off. I’m sure someone can think of a balance ghat goes off of faster stam regen the more stam you already had or something.
Looks like the recent closed stress test is addressing those stam issues: It seems that the increase in stam regen the longer you sit has increased: So instead of sitting for 4-5 mins it's more like 2-3
Honestly, the RNG is what drives me away most of the time, it's so boring walking around hoping to run into a Herbi to feed..only to walk my dino to death.
i wrote my comment like 20 minutes ago on your other video, and now going to this one i think im gonna start up The Isle!! I played for a total of 3 hrs back in 2022, and havent played since. So, I might aswell try again if you find it at least a bit more enjoyable :D
2:20 you’re right, everyone was just running across the map all the time. I’ve played it but also normally watch Isle “let’s play” vids on TH-cam - most videos consist of ppl running blindly across the map often falling to their deaths (I’m looking at you, Laacer!)
I literally said the same thing about the carno 😂 I followed the actual migration zone one time and ended up in the swamps… my thought was pretty much… “um… okay…” there was nothing to eat there and I ended up dying of starvation. Not to mention carno can’t even swim… and I’ve also said that migration zones should be visible along with sanctuary icons so a player has a choice. Not everyone wants to go to the sanctuary to grow.
Migration feels more like its based on your location than your species. As a Tenonto, I was hanging around the small pond to the right of the northern bay, and no matter how long it was, my zone was NE plains/lake the entire IRL day. Once I started hanging in the plains after literal hours of going back and forth exploring that area, it finally moved.... to the rolling hills/cliffs that are NE of the NE plains. So while I do like it, it doesn't seem to move around as much as it should.
I think you understand the intent behind The Isle really well, it's refreshing to have a commentator approach the past issues and the strategies the Devs are trying to do to improve the experience for survival orientated players, not just turn it into the death match PvP many were unhappy with, I'm also very optimistic about the game after Gateway and I am patient enough to know they have to try things out first to get it right latter... also I totally want more AI variety, smarter AI, and more of them, I feel this will help a lot with immersion.. thanks for the well thought out commentary on the game
Totally agree with your video. Great analysis and fun edits. Been playing for a long time. Was so grateful for the recent update. For the first time in years, I feel hope for this game. I like your idea of lizards in sanctuary. I would caution against making more AI that are the same species as players. I think a distinction makes the players feel special and a part of team comprised of people. Either way, more PVE is the right direction here.
Thankyou! Also yeah I see a lot of people who seem to feel the same way about AI of the playables. Though I do think this game REALLY needs it, I totally get it why people don't like it- cause it does make it a little confusing and take away from the special ...ness of player interactions. Like when Teno AI was in (currently I think it's not) it was a little annoying as a teno to find other tenos only for them to just be AI. I feel much of this could be solved with making it more obvious what are bots and what aren't (different skins or smt idk) and making the AI better. Like having them follow migration patterns so it would make sense to follow them if you wanted- or allowing players to interact with them more (like joining their group or getting em to join yours). Rambled a bit but u get the idea lol
Wow, everything you said was spot on. I’ve been playing The Isle since release, and thinking about ways they should fix issues forever, but the ways you explain the games issues are perfect. Fantastic video!
I agree with a lot of the statements of this video. Its good to have other objective thinkers and problem solvers out there! Felt like I was alone out there... in the entirety of the internet! Maybe that's just because I'm a bit more.. vocal? Idk. Anyway. From what I've seen. (I haven't been able to play the Isle since Galli/Cera/Beipi were released, keep this in mind. I will be getting a new computer Soon, so I may come up with more ideas later on if I experience stuff myself.) But, I've watched a lot of people play this game. And I can still get an objective opinion for myself. Even though I hear all of the complaining. From what I've observed. Cera and Carno have the short end of the stick primarily being the land hunters. Both of their hunger drains excessively! And I believe it was originally like that, because the Spiro Map was always, always, ALWAYS filled with bodies! Because of the Deathmatch mentality. (Which caused LAG; this was an attempt to lessen the lag server side. A Patch if you will.) And, because of this, it could support their fast hunger drain. From what I've seen of the new map and the new stamina system. Which.. like you said, feels like the Legacy one has returned. - (I too always seemed to have walked everywhere rather than run. This would not effect my playstyle at all.) The Spiro Hunger drain is simply no longer supported! Its drain needs to be slowed down, so you have time to get too places. Or, at least hold you out long enough to reach the next migration zone, so you can hunt your prey. However, NOT so long, that all your own personal diets are completely tapped out, which would make hunting exceedingly more difficult- because the prey would be topped off in all their diets while the carnivore would be struggling with no diets at all. Which, is not on. It should be balanced to the point where, their diets are beginning to suffer- and if they fail a hunt, they start to slowly get weaker due to lack of sustenance. It makes logical sense to me. And honestly, would make it fair. You are completely right, Carnivores SHOULD be a high skill character to play. Herbivores are generally more relaxed and are easier to grow because of this, but still should be skill based as well. It will be obvious who is and who isn't a good player upon interaction! (This also shows realism; the weak and the young are always the first to go.) On Spiro, they were way, way to easy to grow and play. People didn't value them like you also have mentioned, so they'd yolo into a stego for the giggles, which only told me that they were.. simply bored of that animal. Which, that honestly SHOULDN'T be the case. You should WANT to keep your animal alive. Elders and Mutations will help, but they also need to be EARNED. Herbivores, from what I understand WONT get Mutations, only Carnivores can. So, Herbivores- need to be well equipped to handle mutated monsters heading their way to a very specific degree. So, for example: A dilo would normally handle, tenos. But, if they upgrade into a mutant, they may treat killing a stego as easily as a teno. Right? Makes sense. Because they earned to gain that bit of boost in power- there fore, entering a new life system. Their diet system should flex with their physical change. Hunt more items or, at the very least make a few select few have un-biased diet, kind of like a Deino. So they can hunt and chase anything they come across. BUT ONLY a few short few. Not all! Herbivores in general SHOULD be powerful and strong- especially in groups. That's simply how they are in real life. Only the weak or the young are picked off. Large confident packs should be able to dwindle away at a strong herd, but not because they're too "OP" but because they had Skill! Cause a bit of panic and chaos into the hearts of Herbivores- that would make a very fun dynamic. That would force players to weight their odds. Why body guard if you simply don't have the stamina to risk- let the skilled carnivores have their spoils. They lived this long for a reason- and they SHOULD wear their battle scars like a trophy! This dynamic would honestly raise the stakes of combat- and give for awesome battles. It wouldn't be frustrating like it is on the Spiro map because of the constant KOS even if you were a meager nothingness of being a fresh spawn. (I only mention this, because it's been a problem. It hasn't for me, because I was a paranoid enough player to not suffer the ire of KOSers. lol!) For Herbivores, personally I think them getting the extra "Boosts" from sharpening their claws and horns makes since. This would also help deter wannabe hunters- this could be their version of "Mutations" however maintaining this pique performance should be a bit of a chore. This way, there isn't an over abundance of "OP" herbivores. It would be kind of a trade off. Not everyone is willing to seek out specific things to maintain pique efficiency, either because its too much work or you simply don't care. But for those who do- and for the carnivores who come across one of these Herbivores would find a shocking surprise. Reward those who seek strength; who earned their way to this stage. Its a SURVIVAL game, it needs these elements to be successful! The feeling people get after obtaining their rewards and their achievements is worth it for a lot of people. IF the Herbivore died of old age with these special perks for maintaining perfect optimization, should be rewarded a new Perk or very special rare skin, or unlock special new colors to mark that THEY EARNED that reward. There can be other rewards for maintaining that power of coarse, but those are simply examples. Comment is too long-- will have Part Two down below on my own comment.
Part Two of the Comment: I also personally think that Apex Predators and Herbivores ALSO need to be severely earned. They SHOULD NOT be easy to grow, they SHOULD be a struggle to maintain. You know why? Because they SHOULD be heavily Skill based dinosaurs, they themselves should be a trophy to reach adulthood, they should be earned and played by the best of players! Why? Because this would limit the Apex issue that Legacy has. It would be a natural selection system. Only the most dedicated and most skilled would ever survive. and I honestly believe that Apex dinosaurs SHOULDN'T be allowed to be instantly grown on Private servers. Like.. at all! Because, as soon as people can buy their way into an Apex, you'll be facing the same problem Legacy has. Regardless of them keeping the Apex alive or not. It takes away the reward of growing and surviving as an Apex. If you can simply... be insta-grown into one. It isn't fair to the eco system. Especially if the Devs wanted to CREATE an eco system in the first place. I'd even personally take away the grazing system for Herbivore Apexes as well; so they can't simply eek along on grass when they're starving. Herbivore apexes should be played strategically. Again, because they shouldn't be easy to grow or maintain. An Apex is an Apex, they're generally overpowered compared to the rest of the roster. Yes, lower tiers maybe faster. But, not all. From what I've seen of Rex, it's trot is as fast as a Cerato while its running! Or, so it appears from the footage I've seen. Maybe that will be heavily altered later down the line I don't know. All I know is, is that Apex Stamina should be heavily valued. It could make or break the entire animal. But, it also needs the reserves to handle not starving to death entirely while it recovers its stamina. Apex Herbivores I believe will have the luxury to still wander around while recovering their stam, because they walk everywhere in the first place. While Carnivores have to hunt and waste stam to survive. That is simply the nature of things. So, if you run into a Trike or Shant, its likely they have full stamina. So, you'd have to approach them like they are. Even if they might not. The player should also get a connection with their animal of choice. They should feel sad, but accomplished if they reached a stage in life, that their animal dies of old age. Especially if they were nested in. Give grander more interesting rewards if you were nested in- make it worth the effort. Having a sort of family tree could make things interesting as well. Make the rewards worth it for the parents as well. Everything, should feel like an achievement, no matter what you are doing in the game. This, is what makes survival in its truest aspects, worth it. Your stamina recommendation makes a lot of sense. I agree with that. Reward the players who choose to play the game correctly; and punish those who don't. If the Devs want a specific playstyle, they need to reinforce those ideologies! Patches help- but aren't the primary fix. Finding solutions to get what you want is absolutely needed. And that's important for a game like this one. Survival games are hard to nail down. But, if done right; it will be an amazing experience! Sorry for the Novel. But, that's my take on what I've learned so far. And what I would like to see in the game! Hopefully, this expectation becomes reality. YES, this is a game and it should be fun and shouldn't be based on reality that much. But, the problem is, survival is based on reality. Things shouldn't be spoon fed to people. Maybe, there could a several small tier if not a couple of medium sized dinosaurs that ARE super easy to keep grow and maintain. Maybe those dinosaurs could be the most preferred on various carnivore diets. Increase the populations of those dinosaurs, make them more desired for the casual players! But those dinosaurs should have lots of colors, patterns and maybe even accessories to pick from. Make them unique and special, so you don't feel like you're growing the same ol' Omni over and over again. Make these casual grown dinosaurs more desirable when it comes to its diversity in diet and biome interaction. Make these dinos more worth the time! I'd also recommend a Dossier when creating your dinosaur. So people can SEE the skill levels required or estimated requirement, So, people can SEE if these particular dinosaurs might match their expectations, their energy levels, their time restraints. Interest level in biomes from their diet choices(Wither you're a Herbi, Carni or Omni). Because, not everyone HAS time to grow a 6 hour long dinosaur. But, if they want to have time to play something fun within 30 minutes? Perfect! Have all of those type of stats ready to preview so people have the correct expectation going into the game, and not wasting their time. Because if people know what they're getting into from the get go to some mild extent, then they go into creating their character and hopping into the game! I don't think having Damage output, weight, stam values and all the basic stats like that aren't necessary. Because, its still fun to discover what kind of attacks and special abilities you may have while playing in game. But, I feel like the Grow Time would be a QoL thing that would help with decision making. Having a description as simple as: "Avaceratops is an aggressive dinosaur, known to living in mountainous regions or jungle biomes, where they're agility allows them to traverse otherwise treacherous terrains." This would tell the player they're likely to hang out in those regions without telling the player what might also be hanging out there, and what the instant threats maybe. Wither it be AI or other players. Vague but telling you know? It also gives a possible hint as to what you're special ability maybe. So, for example for a current dinosaur in the game maybe: "Herrerasaurus has been observed to live in high locations, taking their prey by surprise! They are known to hunt small prey, however observed testing their skills on larger prey items!" So, in context with out it telling you everything about it. You might assume it can only climb trees; but then discover it can climb human structures and rock surfaces! It can swim rather well and has a good jump. Those are all discoveries made in-game not outright told. Hunting small prey, this is rather diverse. What is considered small? Rabbits? Beipi? Well, what about a Galli? It's not a very heavy animal. So, could that be considered small? Who knows, find out in-game! That sort of thing. Make it fun to still discover while playing. You wouldn't know all the ins and outs of you're dinosaurs entire diet list; other than the fact they're Carnivore, Herbivore or Omnivore. TL:DR: I agree with you. Everything should be earned and skill based- the rewards for this, should also be good and a sign of your detection and achievements!
Sounds like the perfect way to make this work is carnivores have high top speed but low stamina. Their goal is to try to sneak up on prey without alerting them, the less distance they can create between themselves and their target, the more advantageous it is for them. This means avoiding things like making noise or attacking from an obvious location where they can see you coming, basically like an assassin. You do not want to turn it into a stamina competition as a carnivore. You will always lose that against herbivores that are well rested. As a carnivore, your stomach should not run out super quickly after getting a full meal in (stomach should be full for at least a day and a half before drain starts provided you aren’t sprinting or breeding), but should start exponentially getting lower and lower the longer you go without a meal. Herbivores have high top speed, high stamina, but slower acceleration than carnivores. As herbivores do not get as much nutrients from their food as carnivores do, eating grass or foliage should be a common thing they have to do in order to make it to their next major food item this opens them up to getting snuck up on by carnivores and basically means they have to play defense with lookouts and sentries to alert the herd to a sneaking predator. A good lookout and alert call will save a herd while a negligent one will doom one of the herd to death. I feel like these changes alone would introduce a lot more team play and forethought to actions. The only other thing I can think is that there needs to be some incentive to make herbivores want to flee more than fight, zebras could probably team up and kill a bunch of lions, but they usually don’t do that because it opens them up to also getting attacked. Maybe herbivores have a higher bleed rate, or are prone to infection that they will have to cure with a specific food item upon being injured(that debuff can cause them to standout to predators and make their top speed or acceleration even lower, this will incentivize most herbivores to run).
I love your thoughtful approach to talking about the flaws in the new systems in a constructive way. As more and more gets added, with a little tweaking this game could be so incredible!!
Thanks! I just HAD to add that in this video, that whole thing felt like a movie scene the way the raptor came up on the rock I was hiding under and called out. I managed to escape unseen tho!
I tend to play the isle for a week of two every few months or so only because it becomes extremely repetitive very quickly. I only just now started playing gateway and agreed with you on most things. I mostly play alone and end up a malnourished carnivore living of whatever critter I may find. The game becomes much, much easier even after just having one partner because you rarely find pray in small enough groups to effectively hunt.
I will say: the thing about Stam building faster the longer you sit is newer. Most people saying they didn't like it was the worse version a few weeks ago.
I hope they add wet and dry seasons which affect water levels and availability. Meaning in the dry season some ponds would dry up and rivers would get smaller. Also tie that to food availability according to season and also time of day. So frogs would be found more in the wet season during the evenings, nights and mornings. Not so much during the day and even less during dry seasons. Chickens would be opposite and only be seen during the day because they roost at night. Same with plants for the herbivores. During winter plants would be less available and provide less nutrition and food. Of course they need to get AI working and in the right numbers first because we're already starving. We don't need to make it any harder to find food.
I would think it would be cool like you said if we got a territory system for another interesting PVE mechanic. Or becoming an alpha in a group if you win a duel. Or if there was also a system, within that system where it can tell if you're a bad leader somehow, don't know how that would work exactly, like, at all, but still a fun idea to add to the game. The way I see it for getting a "bad leader" score would be like this... 1. If you take too many risks to get to a migration zone. Like going thru more leg break territories as a creature that can't jump; mountainous regions, or swimming for too long of a distance. 2. If too many of your members die in close succession. Like if 3 or more members die within a few minutes of each other. 3. If you become too aggressive towards your own group members. Like you "friendly" fire too often. Maybe when you meet all of these poor choice requirements, you'll gain a little tag on your name saying [Poor] that all group members can see, but you could also receive other tags saying, [Moderate], or [Great]. The tags'll only show up if you're the current leader of a group. And people can always choose to fight you for leadership if they want. If you spar with somebody and 4 call, you at that point give up your position. But if you want to keep fighting to the death, you can or until pure exhaustion (no more stam left). And for things, such as the idea of territories. I'm thinking something similar to how Wolf Quest kinda does it. But we're not able to use an in game map to see where we are... So, I'm trying to think how it could work without the use of a map. For one thing, there needs to be visual markers that somebody can see and smell, like... 1. Poo piles. 2. Claw marks. 3. Spots that look like they've been rubbed on. 4. Specific to horned/spiked creatures. Big, very easy to see, gashes on trees, or small ditches where a lot of dirt was moved on the ground, like a digging motion.
I’m most curious to see the mutations. I think once we start seeing how mutations work with all the other systems it will tie everything together. Your diet, mating, actions will have consequences and meaning.
My problem right now is spawning in, moving towards a migration zone for food but then dying of hunger cause I run out of stamina and can’t regenerate it :/
thank you for making the carnivore RNG problem, the reason why i have the isle uninstalled is because i cannot play carnivore without being in hotspot and impossible to grow without being killed by max growth players or traveling around trying to find any semblance of food. hunting real players is something i would dream of and not even my main objective when i play carnivore.
Damn... I didn't actually think that The isle could actually improve. You make such good points, I hope that your critique will encourage the devs to improve their game
5:02 I've gotta say, I was 100% a Spiro Sprinter and I ran *everywhere* I went(depending on the species but usually omni), and with the release of the new stam system I thought I was gonna hard struggle, I ended up liking this new stam system *more* than the last. If the old system came back(first off I'd really dislike it), I'd still trot everywhere since I just prefer it. Personally I can attest that it's really not that hard of a change to make, just.. don't run..? You'll learn to appreciate the game more and the views and just have a really chill with your present company. Now I literally just trot everywhere with Metta and when it's time for action *then* we press the shift key and get our >:] faces on 😂 heck even in a lot of fights things are taken pretty slow when we hunt(despite what my videos show), I do the initial explosion of power and Metta plays the long game. Honestly so much more fun and interesting than the old stam system💯 And Gateway is cool, I enjoy the new map but I wish hotspots were gone and migrations worked a taaad bit better but hey, genuinely beautiful map with lots of interesting places. Also I pretty much agree with the illusion of difficulty, carnivore feels a little luck based and finding players where I'm *told* to expect them is gambling at best. PvE is so sorely needed for *all* species, the game is exactly what you said too, "walk" and "kill players ig". Nesting is meh and there's almost nothing to do other than PvP, I want to be able to interact with members of my own kind non lethally:[
What about some kind of super migration for all/most herbivores making a jurassic park style herd but limit the food enough to encourage break off when over population occurs/ maybe to nest with less competition and predators
wonderful video, im considering trying out one of these creature-survival games, and the vibes i got from this video has significantly moved me closer to trying out the isle
Migration zones never.. and I mean never have any food in them. I'm usually a herrerasaurus but even as a herbivore. I've even spawned at the start of a reset in a mz and nothing 😂😂
What i think they really need to do, z walk is a base long walk not a wittle baby tap tap tap but a walk, a trot is when 2 feet leave the ground much likr a job of two legged animals as trot is almost exclusively 4 legged run is like a canter where all but one foot leaves the ground or on two legged they pick up speed and get a really long stride but arent going at their fastest many animals are able to uphold this for extended periods of time usually about 1-2 miles worth while babys can usually do 3-4 miles worth. And Sprint is usually short bursts on faster animals about 1 mile worth at most but think lions, or cheetahs, or even race horses they sprint and its longer strided and faster typically with all legs going off the ground alot. If they implemented this idea which follows all gates it would make everything perfect gate wise, and really z walk should be just that a walk not a tippy tap or realllly slow trot As for carnivores and even herbivores there needs to be a realistic starvation mechanic where they dont just DIE but instead starving means if you cannot find food within 24 hours your belly gets smaller add another 24 and you belly gets even smaller, another 24 and neck or tail gets smaller, another 24 some ribs. 5-7 days later you could be looking like a skinny hungry animal with a debuff like being weaker, another 7-14 dats depending on size and fat deposits you could be literal skin and bones amd slowly waste away eventually your dinosaur force laying down and eventually on one of those lay downs just... dieing literally just going to sleep and you get the screen. This is how reptiles starve, this is how large animals starve. They could also implement that not eating enough to bring you back to health makes you still loose weight and get skinnier, if you dont manage to eat again realistically if you starve and eat a sandwich no matter what you are your still starving... With that then if you consistently could eat over another 3-4 in game days you could bring your dino back to health making it even more realistic as most wild animals are either fit or a bit skinny. You could do the same with water while the forst 24 hours after having no water is just like YOU NEED water but 2-4 days later you start slowly dieing after 4 your dino starts falling or being weaker regaining little to no stam and eventually falling over and dieing much like dehydration, with this you could see less dirt and more dryness on the dino as well they may have cracked skin or sores ext. With that you could then implement a very real thing...wounds make you loose water faster! While a scratch wont do much, a large wound into muscle will make you dehydrate faster think 2 days instead of 3 if you dont drink and 1 day if its several large wounds. Another thing they need to do is make the compass more 3d most animals can smell in 3D even humans can most animals can also smell water, fun fact natural water is VERY smelly. Humans can only smell water within about 10-20 feet depending on size, larger water is smellier so for example someone can smell the sea about 2-10 miles before due to its size. Making it possible to smell water and go to that direction easily would be realistic since we can smell the direction of water. But pure perfect overly filtered water barely has a smell. Another thing we can smell foods within a quarter to half a mile Now think of how strong animal senses are when our own senses are just as strong? We can also hear up to 2-5 miles out at different levels so again think of it They need to implement things with these in mind.
it's always raining and the rain is unbearable because you cannot hear anything, it seems like it's night-time for an hour and then daytime for 10 minutes, for deino players the map is terrible, you've basically got to either play as a cannibal and eat fish and you're stuck on one side of the map meaning everyone knows where the crocs are and they just go to the small ponds to drink out of. there's one hotspot it seems on the entire map which is south plains and it sucks there. - also if it's raining all the time why the fuck can't there be puddles that form so deinos might actually be able to travel to smaller ponds etc and not dehydrate within 4 minutes. The old map had the pond, and shallows, two busy areas.. it had Swamps near the log which always had action and Central area, then they changed the map and deleted a shit ton of trees and everyone went to "the bowl" which imo made the map terrible. Stamina regen takes too long now, if you're playing something that relys on killing something to survive and it takes 45 minutes to kill them, you're not only starving to death while doing it but needing to sit down and lose their location every 5 minutes because you're regening stamina for 10 minutes is pathetic. IT'S A VIDEO GAME. ALSO, the old tracking system was so much better, you didn't have to press a quick time event to find where they were headed, just follow their little yellow footsteps. which could also get overwhelming if there was a lot of players around but thats what made tracking someone fun, if you were being chased you could literally run to shallow water if you weren't bleeding you could lose people, wallowing next to water to lose people, the game was FUN.
(I made this comment as a reply to someone else, but I’ll make it again in general since I feel it’s important) The RNG and having to hope on luck or chance is truly just awful for certain carnivores. For players who are like me and play deinosuchus because we want to play a more patient, ambush based playstyle, it’s crippling, especially when you factor in the design of gateway and the stamina system. You’ve likely seen the dozens of waterfalls that break up rivers, ponds, and lakes, and how getting from one to another can be quite the journey, especially if you are slow on land like a deino is. It essentially throws out the whole migration mechanic for one creature, and forces you to rely on hanging out in hotspots like NE for food or to cannibalize your fellow crocs to survive, especially when you get larger. Add in the fact that AI doesn’t need to eat or drink, and you are solely reliant on fish or killing players to survive. I can only imagine how bad it might get when they add rex, and all the players that currently play deino because it’s the strongest swap over, meaning less crocs for cannibalizing when you inevitably can’t get food from players. Compare that to something like a Ptera, who can reliably fish for food and never have to compete with players, or Ceratos who can eat and scavenge literally anything while being able to more freely traverse the map, and you see where this can truly get frustrating.
I put 1000 hours in Evrima/Gateway and I loved it but ultimately I quit because the game isn't fully ready. The amount of dinos I've spent hours growing and lost due to bugs is insane. Typically getting stuck bug or you falling 1cm and dying instantly. Or the Raptor pounce being broken. I just don't have the time to waste 3 hours growing (for the 500th time) to die outside of combat
just fix or get rid of Migration and fix some stam stuff and everything is fine, it sucks spawning just to see that you have to run 30-60min to your daam food so you end up killing yourself hoping to spawn in a Migration zone but surprise there is no spawn in a Migration zone so you better start running to survive but surprise again the Migration zone changed and surprise again, you are starving and there is mountain or cliff in your way and than you arive and the server restarts setting the zone somewere else again, what a fun game
I think this game is not for you guys. It s not a survival game, i t s a pvp game with survival elements. What do you expect a dinosaur to do, build houses, do quests? A dinosaur, especially small, will hide for most of its life, it s hillarious that actually the game is very accurate, you walk you hunt, you hide. I think what you want is a pve only server with a more complex ai system. Amd i ve seen many instances where fighting was awesome, almost artistic. It s hunt showdown with dinosaurs, lol. My comment was mainly directed to your last video with the flawed game.
Gateway more so kept the isle alive long enough for the mutations/dibble update to save it, like life support, and with all the quality of life stuff im sure they will continue to add, it will get better, unless dondi somehow . . . Dondis it again 😒
Small note but there is a third way to take off as the Petra, but it's only applicable in certain conditions. If you are on a cliff edge or something and simply walk off the edge, you can open your wings on the fall down and take flight for no stamina cost
I know it isn't ideal, but I see starving to death as a carnivore as an automatic server balancer. If there is no food, you should grow a herbivore or an omnivore
I feel like the carnivores could benefit from mechanics from evolve, like the birds that might give herbivores away. This might also be interesting for herbivores, in a way that they need to be careful when moving around to not cause to much attention to themselves. This musn't be limited to stuff like birds you spook, but could be things like stepping in a certain kind of mud, that leaves very obvious (and easy to spot even from a larger distance) tracks to follow and the like. Basically environmental clues, where to find food, that work over longer distances, which can be avoided by the herbivore, if said herbivore pays attention (which ai likely wouldn't as much).
"its a glorified walking sim" would be more of an accurate statement now then ever, removing the option to sprint around everywhere practically kills the only replayable factor of the game in its current state, that being the pvp (it also feels clunky asf). Its fine to change it from being a fighting game when there is enough content to justify that decision, but right now there isnt.
ima be honest, I like the map, but there way to many cliffs or to steep places to walk on, I can barely survive being on land. The only dino I can survive as is a deino, like I want to play as other dinosaurs but I cant bc I keep breaking a leg or I cant find any food. Sometimes the clfifs gets me stuck and I am gonna have to die to get unstuck. so i kinda hate gateway tbh. Old map was better in my opinion
well i do play much more cuz my friend buy The Isle recently and we do play Deinos a LOT, and the issu that we do have almost everytime then one of us dies is staving, Deinos are prety big but the only thing that can make your hunger good for regen health fully without needing to get back to fight is stegos, and of course, others deinos, but fully grown steg are relly f***** tanky and you just can't kill them if they are not in whater so your only option is to kill other deinos cuz almost all the others dinos don't give you that much food, you get a full carno, it's only by 25% food, same for tenos or ceras, even stegos that are not to heavy for you to pick up and drown gives you like 30% food, i do think a lot that dev's need to teak that food amount for deinos, with the last fish update, it's easier cuz fish do spawn more and they gives you more food, but why are fishses giving total more food then fully grown dinos that you can catches? frogs don't give you food at all that is logical then you are adult but herras do gives you like 3% and uthas around 10% imagine how many players you have to catches for getting back to normal condition of hungers then you are starving or almost
Thank you so much for this video. i've taken a hiatus from the isle since they released cera. Will def redownload and try again. Herbie gameplay lacked so much when i last played 😄
7:19 or, the more sinister and more likely option, more people will start using gamma filters. I've never used a gamma filter in a game before, but upon loading up the isle after the obligatory 2 year break and seeing absolutely nothing at all, i decided to look up how to use one. Turns out it's really easy, and i'm convinced, based on my interactions, that almost every other player is using them as well.
I've been involved in game design for several years now, and from what I can tell, the biggest issue this game faces is that its entire development revolves around a _concept_ rather than a _system._ Someone, somewhere, came up with the idea of "realistic dinosaur survival game"... and then not much else. I think you hit the nail on the head in your previous video when you suggested that the developers take an actual game design course. Because the truth is, there are some fundamental elements that are _required_ in a game that are simply missing from the Isle which, at best, shifts it out of "videogame" territory and into "simulator" territory. First off, there is no end goal. Games _need_ an end goal, whether that be rescuing the princess at the end of the dungeon or getting a high score by eating glowing white dots and avoiding ghosts. In the Isle, it seems the only real goal is to play until you die, then start over, which would be fine if there was some way to record your progress - a final score or survival time, maybe something to record the amount of kills or damage dealt, and leader boards with which to compare that score with others or even just yourself. In its current state, I'd say the game appears to be perpetually "unfinished," but it'd be more accurate to say it's "unstarted." It really seems like this game suffers from good ideas with no direction. Maybe I'm over-stepping, but if I were in charge of this game, I would make some drastic changes, such as getting rid of the stamina system altogether. I know it's a staple of the survival genre, but there doesn't seem to be much purpose for it here other than "survival games have stamina bars, don't they?" To me, its only purpose is to restrict playstyle, when in reality, they should strive to encourage _other_ playstyles. In fact, here's a list of change that I would suggest: First and foremost, add in a more in-depth stat system other than "damage and health." These two stats alone are not enough to balance a multiplayer game. A good basis would be the typical moba system - two forms off damage, such as ability damage and basic damage, and two forms of defense, such as base defense and health. Give each dinosaur a varied balance of each stat to direct their intended playstyle. This alone will make PvP feel much more intuitive and interesting. Get rid of the stamina bar, and instead, encourage players to walk or stalk slowly with other means - a temporary damage or speed boost from an ambush; a damage mitigation buff that increases while walking and decreases while sprinting; birds or branches that make noise if disturbed by sprinting, alerting others in the area. Being forced walk for minutes at a time only serves to diminish a players investment and will lead to them simply turning off the game. Get rid of starvation, but not necessarily the hunger meter. Starving to death seems unacceptable given there are no checkpoints or respawns. Instead, add a permanent debuff that reduces damage, sprinting speed, or health whilst starving - as well make a visual or audible cue to others showing that you're starving. This will encourage players to choose their targets carefully, will alert players when you're vulnerable, and to hunt proactively so to not be a potential target. Get rid of eyesight penalty at night, but keep the day night cycle. Add buffs to nocturnal dinosaurs during the night - increased damage, ambush time, sprinting speed. You could even add specific abilities that can only be used exclusively during the night. Do the same with the day characters - health and mitigation bonuses during the day, standard stats at night. Get rid of random AI. Instead, add in a constant source of food in small regions, separated far apart on the map. This will give carnivores a sort of "hub" to rest or regain strength, whilst giving herbivores clear and obvious places to avoid. Reduce the frustration of never finding food due to RNG as well as give the player active goals to travel between. These "hubs' can also act as a respawn point. Speaking of which - Add. In. Respawns. Losing hours of progress is simply not an enjoyable mechanic and actively dissuades players from investing time into your game. Add respawns. _Allow_ players to make mistakes, then give them opportunity to fine tune their gameplay and try again. If needs be, add in a "Hardcore" or "Realistic" mode in which respawns are turned off and players must suffer the consequences. As a rule, punishing players for their mistakes is fine - so long as they're given the opportunity to correct those mistakes and venturing towards their goals. Which leads to - Goals and accomplishments. These can be anything. AI mini-bosses that patrol certain biomes; hard to reach vista points that require dinosaurs capable of platforming maneuvers; hidden lore drops sprinkled throughout the map. Give the players something to work towards other than fighting each other. Give them a reason to _want_ to play your game. I could go on, and in truth, I would probably end up turning this entire game into a massive dungeon crawler, but my point stands. It can work as a survival game, which is what many, MANY players desire, but there are several undeniable gaps in the very foundation of this games development and are honestly very simple fixes. Aesthetically, it's gorgeous. The level design, sound design, and animation are all splendid and the passion behind them is obvious. I do believe it would greatly benefit from a consultation from an experienced game director, as most of these changes are well within their capabilities. As it is, I'll continue to check in to see its progress and hope one day it turns into everything they hoped it would.
See the problem is that the dev team arent video game developers, they are former ark survival evolved modders trying to make their own game. They had some internal conflict with one of the developers and that person essentially hard coded the isle legacy in a way that the current "devs" couldnt (or didnt know how to) make ANY changes, so they had to start again from the ground up, which is why evrima can not use any assets from the legacy build. If you buy and download the isle today, the isle legacy is what you will initially download and im convinced that the current dev teams just dont know how to fix this, because theres no reason for legacy to be the primary build of the game at this point. The "devs" dont know what they are doing and are too cheap to hire any real developers to help them fix the game. Any criticism seen by the lead "developer" dondi, is met with cynical vitriol and results in being banned or timed out in the discord, whether its constructive criticism or not. I would argue that the "devs" STILL havent even got a structured concept for the game, because what they do conflicts with the assumed concept of the game in and of itself. Its not a "realistic dinosaur survival game" and the build showcases that its actually just a glorified chat room with dinosaur avatars. Not to mention the constant talk of adding humans with guns that can build and farm (this is an artifact of the "devs" being ark modders) which completely breaks the concept of a "realistic dinosaur survival game" as humans with guns trivialize the dinosaurs if its anywhere near realistic, which makes it a glorified big game hunting, game.
how about a stam system for some dyno's that lets you regen stam if walking but after a certain time walking it doesnt, you can still use your stam pool but need to actually rest after that?
I feel an honorable mention needs to go to Herrerasaurus, possibly the best dinosaur they have made to date. With its unique mechanics it actually feels engaging and fun beyond PvP because like the Pteranodon it has viable methods of avoiding larger dinosaurs. It also has the leap which is a more fun hunting mechanic than the pvp death matches we have for other carnivores. If we get more of this the Isle could actually shape up to be a fun survival game. Its a small dinosaur kept fun and viable because it got the love it deserved.
This is a lot of what people have been saying for YEARS about Evrima. They released a barely playable demo and then expect people to rally for the game for over 2 years while it's developing and it is still a luck based death match. I'm really glad Gateway is bringing some personality back to the game- hell, maybe I'll even try playing it again in another 2 years.
I’m stuck playing legacy because no matter what setting I use evrima runs at 20 fps max 💀 I’ve got a pretty good pc too idk how everyone is running evrima at 60
Honestly The Isle is incredible. I play since 2016 too but recently I got the chance to upgrade my PC and try Evrima. I was shock... The game feels so unique. It's hard to explain because I skip the process but it was great! The combat mechanics, the diet system, the dinos and other creatures, the sounds... Even the map was great! There're things to improve, I agree with you! But I have to admit that this game is promising! I'm a vet student and I love the fact that cannibalism can get you muscle spasm or like if you eat well you get a boost of stamina reg and you can cut up the bleed faster. I don't know what exactly they're planning for this game in the futuro but I'm sure it will be great!
How can you say its incredible when the only gameplay loop is predicated on a sunk cost fallacy????? The isle is a mile wide but an inch deep. The devs (which arent devs, but former ark survival evolved modders, trying to build their own game) are taking 1 step forward and 3 steps back at every single turn. I have over 600 hours in the isle, 85% of that time was spent afk growing in a bush... the isle is constantly in a state of "this game has so much potential!" and "it _could_ be great some day!" Except it has incompetent developers with no clear vision. 9 years in development with no base gameplay loop... STAR CITIZEN is considered a scam, and even that game has more gameplay loops than the isle... while theyre trying to build a virtual persistent universe.
Stamina, hunger and ai are all linked under some main concerns I'd have. If they want to make a map the size of a country you gotta have the stamina to make it across to explore. To do this with carnivores, you'll also need waaaay more ai like the boar and other dinosaurs to hunt so you don't starve to death. I get that they don't want to put too much ai in the game because they want people to fight each other but again, the map is huge and there's a limit to how many players you can have on it which'll most likely start choosing 'hotspots' where they'll congregate and leave much of the map barren. Great to see videos on these issues where you don't dump all over the subject matter but give out your own thoughts and ideas to improve them.
I would rather have the option of playing smaller things than not have that option. After all I love the herrerasaurus since it is pretty small however you can still kill raptors from ambush but mostly you feast on AI until your fully grown but even then you got to be careful since you die very easily. I also understand that it a brutal game and yeah it depends on luck a lot. However in my opinion it is realistic. I am not sure if what I am about to say is true or not but carnivores had to actually hunt or ambush their prey, They didn't know where to go to find food. That is the whole point of hunting, sometimes you go for an ambush fail and then end up dying because you messed up. happens to Deinosuchus when you go after stegosaurus and you aren't fully grown. In reality everything comes down to random luck and your own skill at the game as well as the experience and choices you make. Also just because you play a herbivore doesn't mean you are safe since if you are unlucky you may come across a pack of raptors or mix packers. It all depends on luck, skill and the choices you make throughout your session. You can't get rid of luck playing a part since if you do it would make the game predictable and boring. What makes life so interesting is the unpredictable nature of it. After all “If life were predictable it would cease to be life, and be without flavor.” - Eleanor Roosevelt
its kind of like that u get rewarded for surviving too long as an adult + maintaining a perfect diet (which is more important factor) u get rewarded with a superior version of you.... an elder, and bc u did pretty well getting a strong one, u'll take so long to age and then after u took what u deserve u get too old, too weak and die of old age but guess what, even after that you have choices, whenb finishing elder stage before u get too weak u can choose from surviving untill nature takes what it gave, or die naturally and get a gift smth we dont know or be a strain! (*all of this would happen if you're good enogh to not die, also a way to make u not suicide kill ur self as an adult bc "ill regrow and fight again" now you have something to make u try to survive*)
So, for the new stamina system, you wish to see Exercise as a feature? You want dynamic muscle growth and endurance. You just wanna see buff dinos. I knew it.
Nope, as a croc i liked the previous version much more. The new update with the gateway map pretty much broke the game in regards to croc play. The map is probably too big for the player count. I have shelved the game and hardly play anymore because the thrill of the hunt is completely absent now. The game at its current state is less immersive and personally the things that made it interesting are pretty much absent now. The map is beatifull but the waterways suck and it feels empty.
Thrill of what hunt the entire way you played the game was sitting for an hour them holding right click whenever smth decided to fill a resource it required to do anything The new map didn't "break croc" it simply made the apex carnivore actually difficult to do things with
For me I like old stam, our world is bigger and there's so much to explore! I do enjoy the slower pace as well but I don't think the default should be that, it should be an option for servers to select some if they want more realism.
quick tip or whatever; it might be a good idea to link the video this is a follow up to. nothing major found it anyway on ur channel but just odd it wasnt linked.
i believe the only gripe with gateway for me is that Deino is like almost unplayable. you spawn in the forest, or in the highlands which you can't get to the other water sources without almost dying. not to mention the north and south rivers are completely unconnected. it's just poorly designed for deinos, everything else is incredibly fun on the map though.
Re: migrations - I have no idea what you're talking about. There has NEVER been food at migration zones for me. The exact opposite in my experience. I completely avoid migration zones now (except after updates). That said, I completely agree about carnivore skill vs RNG.
the thing with stamina is just not right imo. the problem this does not solve the problem it ment to "this isnt a death match game" it only makes it more annoying people still plays this like deathmatch and will play this only like deathmatch if u removed stamina compeletly they would kill eachother constantly by troting if u dont put ur game ANY OTHER atraction or activity to do other then NESTING aka SITING AFK people will keep goring eachother and on a dinosaur u cant rly add much stuff to NOT make it a deathmatch cuz those are dinosaurs animals u cant add bosses u cant add crafting etc. uk? this allways gonna be a deathmatch they just should accept everyone who plays the game should accept it and reverse the stamina update
I love how elegantly you say big truths about this game and also give credit where's due,but where you make the difference from other ppl that judge the isle on videos is that you give viable and very interesting ideas on how to help this game reach it's potential(and i think it has tons of potential)! I'd also like to see you comment on why they bring so many useless small dinos before mid tier+ ! Gj overall keep it up 🎉
Thanks man!!
Also if you wanna hear my opinion on that sorta thing, I kinda cover that in my previous video abt this game. I don't think those creatures are useless, they're very good as AI (so filling the world with life) they're just not so great playables cause ppl will always prefer playing the bigger things.
I love how elegant you say SOERE, I made a video about it
Dondi is probably salty even about this
I find it weird that they don't want this to be a death match game yet the mechanics force it to be. all dinos fr have shit hunger drain, for carnivores, organs give almost no diets so they have to kill a couple players to get a good diet, if they don't, they get punished by the shit mechanic, but devs don't like that so to "fix" the issue they make everyone have shit stamina D:
it's just a walking starving simulator.
A territory/marking system for lone carnivores would be sick. Build out a perimeter with your scent and get buffs based on territory size. Get notifications if other scents invade, and maybe spawn your preferred AI prey if the conditions of the region are correct. The real threat is other apex's invading and demanding your territory.
The biggest issue for me is that the game heavily encourages a slow pace - Demonstrated by the new stamina changes, but also the need for most carnivores to ambush. However, this is significantly restricted by the hunger drain. Carno for instance is an ambusher with low stam, but waiting in a spot readying to ambush anything is near impossible. Carno is pretty much required to be constantly on the move or else you run the risk of not finding food fast enough and quickly starving to death, or at the very least being crippled due to a poor diet.
This applies to omni and cera as well. The devs want a slower pace, but the hunger and stam systems require you to be constantly on the move looking for food. And not just quantity, but variety as well. A bad diet makes it even harder to secure food. In my opinion, the food drains way too fast for the intended purpose and playstyle of carnivores. The devs want to encourage a slower experience and not a pvp deathmatch, and yet killing everything you can is encouraged because you constantly need food.
As for the stamina system, I don't mind it. Similarly, I almost exclusively walk everywhere as well. What I absolutely hate about it though is that they also applied it to low tier dinos. Dondi says that he doesn't want things like ptera to not be functionally immortal, so they crippled its stamina; but I really don't see that point. Why should it take ptera 4+ minutes to regen its stamina so it can use its only form of locomotion? The appeal of low tiers should be their agility and low maintenance, but if their stamina is going to be the same (or worse for that matter) than larger dinos, with little to no upsides, then why play them? Why play troodon, when it's just an objectively worse omni? - Also, I love your idea for dynamic stamina regen when trotting. It's baffling how you could come up with that, but the entire dev team could only think of nerfing everything's stam into the ground, and expecting everything to work out.
I think ptera got the shortest end of the stick in gateway, and only because Dondi doesn't like them (From what he's said). It's night vision is abysmal. It's stamina regen is one of the worst in the game. Nesting with it is actively worse than just spawning it, and takes up to an hour just to start up. It can't fight anything besides AI (Unless you count hatchlings, which is like winning the lottery). Getting all three diets is next to impossible. It's hunger and water drain so fast you could die during the night if you're not careful. - And its only positive is that it can fly. That's just a spectator camera with chores at that point. It's no wonder I never see any.
Overall, I think gateway is a massive improvement. The game feels like an actual survival sim compared to before. But there are still massive areas of improvement left.
You make a good point- however I feel hunger drain would be probably okay if there was reliable and consistent prey in and around migration zones (AI, baybeeee)- especially b/c you can get all three nutrients from one animal (provided it isn't one of the modern AI animals). Tho that is true, hunger drain rn does feel kinda like a blink and then you're starving deal lol
also yeah I realllyyyy dont get why Ptera's stam was hit so bad. Like yeah it's do-able. I can survive as the creature. It's just. Not fun to (if its rly cause Dondi 'doesnt like ptera' honestly that would track considering his behaviour). And with the lower tiers as well yeah it just- whyyy. The new stam system just doesn't feel very well thought out and is kind of just a band-aid on a broken leg. I get what they were going for- but this ain't it. I'm glad you like my suggestion also, thankyou!
but yeah I agree. This update I feel is a step in the right direction, but yeah absolutely still a long way to go.
@@MyUniverseinaBox yea the stamina messes ptera's up because it takes so long to recharge, you'll be either starving or thirsty again by the time its full enough to fly. It's essentially like they're trying to keep you from scouting out the island. (either thqat or they're trying to adda degree of realism because reptiles do have a hard time recovering stamina. but these are warm blooded and birds being the only dinosaurs alive, don't have that problem)
As for hunger. There seems to be considerably fewer schooling fish and the ones there are you can't really see because of the new water effects so a lot of people end up starving on the lake. I flew until I starved when I was searching the river coming from the lake and again on the coastline where the turtles and crabs are supposed to be.
I suggest you use scent more often and learn how to track things since most often, people will hang around bodies and places with a lot of plants that give diets for herbivores. So if you really need to eat check for foot prints and hide around a body or plant that you know for sure someone will come by or just eat the body if it’s a part of your diet
"Starving to death because there is nothing for you to hunt isn't fun. It just feels completely unfair and based on luck" Couldn't have said it better myself.
I have 2 fully grown raptors on 2 servers. But everytime I think about logging on and playing I think: "But what if I don’t get lucky and starve to death?" And then I just don't play.
SAME. I feel the exact same. That was always my reason for hesitation to log back onto the servers I have carnivores in.
Legacy at least has ai spawning near you when you’re hungry. On gateway you either stay where everybody else is to eat or starve going anywhere else as a carnivore.
worst part is, the "luck" part isn't that nothing spawned around you, it's that stuff explicitly spawns near big quantities of people and you can die simply due to guessing the hotspot wrong
Feel that
I've found that east and north plains is amazing at spawning ai, in most times. I play almost religiously only on a realism server, and I ALWAYS died to starvation because of ai troubles. So recently I've been packing with people and learnt that these two places are a haven for carnivores (if no one else knows this).
As a big monster hunter fan I think the sharpening/honing claws would be really cool. It'd encourage some downtime in fighting and it could play into the tracking system, with carnivores being able to tell what animal left the scratches and a vague indication of how old it is
more overcomplimenting the game. just what is needed
I saw a cool suggestion in the feedback channel on discord that talked about having an "energy" meter alongside the stam icon that is drained by sprinting around and fighting which reduces stamina regen the lower it is. This energy meter would go back up while resting or sleeping (and maybe very slowly while walking/trotting), with its regen dependent on how much food/water the player has. With this energy meter, players are incentivized to conserve their stamina as to maintain high energy levels and faster stam regen, without being overly penalized for using their stamina when they actually need to.
Gosh honestly that sounds like a really interesting idea, I like it
the long dark mechanics in the isle would be perfect(minus the cold lol)
What's kinda wild is that I don't even play this game (yet, anyway. I've been debating getting it for a while) and I'm not in the Discord, but as I was watching the part of this video about stamina, I had pretty much the same idea
I agree heavily on a territory system. I mostly only play on realism servers because official servers are so unfair - with players still hunting for fun even if they're not hungry.
Territory systems would make it clear to players that you're actively invading someone's territory, and would make sense for the territory owners to attack you, instead of not knowing why.
Maybe you would be able to mark, with urine or some sort, and then when marked in around a circle shape, the territory space inside the urine circle would turn red. The only way to see if you're in someone's territory is by sniffing - meaning humans can't see because they cannot smell it. ( 😈).
But small things like this will really make the game amazing.
A point to add to the herrera for the recent update for the stam issues, the fact that the whole point of herrera is to stay in the trees and jump from tree to tree to travel around and hunt is cool. However when leaping takes so much stamina and it takes forever to regain it, the game feels like its punishing you for playing the dino how its meant to be played if you have to constantly rest for stamina to do the thing the dino was designed to do.
I would suggest they either lower the stam cost for leaping as a Herrera, or add something so while in trees you use less stamina or regain it faster while resting in them. That way it keeps its playstyle and encourages people to use the trees more for traveling. At the moment I find it more viable to run on foot than using trees cause of the stamina to distance ratio.
Unfortunately for myself, the stamina update completely destroys my play style. I'm the type of player that likes to aimlessly sprint around the whole map.
I'm the type of player that adored The Endless Forest while it was around - which, if you're unfamiliar, is quite literally a playable screen saver; there's not even pvp or hunting, just you and other players wandering around a forest as magical deer. This is basically how I play EVERY open world game - whether it's oblivion, breath of the wild, minecraft, whatever. There's definitely a balance of "just enough limitation that makes it fun to survive" and "so limited that it feels like you're being punished for playing" like hyper limited stamina.
In my perfect world, this game would function like Red Dead 2: limitations that make success fun, but not so much so that it feels impossible to play, with options for being completely aimless, or accomplishing a goal/fighting other players. But that's all WAY easier said than done
Honestly completely valid! I've never played RD2, but I get what you mean. It's hard to strike a balance, then you also have the fact that the devs will just have different ideas in mind for how they want their game to feel as well. I think a lot of this variation between what people want the game to be like comes from the fact that this game hasn't had a solid base since it was released.
But yeah, totally get you.
So...I haven't played the isle yet, It did interest me but seeing so many negative criticisms made me rethink it. Thus, the only other wildlife survival game that I have ever played is Wolfquest. Even though it is definitely VERY different from the isle, It does have some similar fundamentals. I may be tripping, but I think that it is a good example of how a survival wildlife game could be, even though, like said, it's very different. The game is mostly single, but it does have a multiplayer mode, and obviously, by the name you can guess that it is about wolves, so this is another great difference. But still, it's an indie game, and the level of improvement is insane, the devs are constantly updating and openly showing the development process, asking tips from the players and using great science on the foundations behind the game. I do plan on playing the isle in the future, if the devs work to improve it.
I like your idea on the stamina. The way I see is like separating "stamina" from "exhaustion". Problem is figuring out how to display that on the HUD without cluttering it ontop of the sickness debuff...
Edit: You are so on point about player agency. I think this game would be a completely different beast if they put more focus on this area, and made the difficulty come from actual challenge more than this RNG time-wasting that it often ends up to be.
Oh that's an interesting idea :0
and thanks! It's always annoyed me when ppl would just repeat over and over that having no AI is good cAuSE iT mAkES ThE GaME DiFFiCuLt. It'd be like if they removed all water sources and they had like a 10% chance of appearing randomly somewhere and theres no way you could know where it would be. like lmao
@@MyUniverseinaBox Just imagining that makes me recoil LOL
they can have the stamina bar turn yellow then red to show exhaustion. then have yellow stripped to show recovering from exhaustion.
As a near full time Ptera player who has figured out how to play around using lots of stamina during flight, and someone who started playing the game shortly after the Gateway patch, I still think it needs massive tweaks improving the way it works for them. Going to zero on the ground is nearly a death sentence because they have no defensive and nearly no offensive capability, and regen from zero can take five to ten real time minutes, that’s tough for limited playtime people. I think regen for them especially must be bugged because the time needed seems random. Starving or dehydration is rampant when starting out due to being effectively benched for trying to learn flight or trying to learn fish (I learned both by switched to abandoned Spiro servers, where fish is plentiful and stamina is quick to regen), putting you in a spiral where you can’t reach food or water due to just not having the Stam or ground speed needed to get to it in time.
As a personal note, I think it's time for these creature sim, especially Dino sim, games to stop caring about being designed around an MP experience and build a solidly realized single-player PvE game that can LATER be expanded into an MP update or spinoff. Too many of these dino games lack a solid core design base and end up stagnating or imploding due to trying to rig such in AFTER launch while also maintaining and responding to active players.
Yeah the ptera stam thing is a real mess. I didn't even think of new players who have to learn how to skim for fish n such. Honestly it's very doable to survive as a ptera with this new stam system, but it's certainly not fun.
ALSO MAN. SPITTIN' FACTS. I think I know why many of these dino sims start out as the multiplayer type and that's b/c it's just easier. These are indie games we're talking about- but that doesn't excuse it. They've set out to make a survival game so either do that, or don't.
These games are always labelled and balanced as survival ones but seldom have the components to make it such; leaving it as a broken, empty, mess- where people try to play it like a dino deathmatch which does not work because it's not balanced or set up for that. SO when they try to start adding those components necessary for a survival game, the community that has grown so used to only having PvP often doesn't like it. It's just a mess, really- I hope The Isle can find their way out of it one of these days.
Anyways sorry for the rambling, you just activated my brain AGUYTDWGUY
@@MyUniverseinaBox Wish I'd seen this reply sooner, but it works out cause I and others got so much to say about the latest patch which broke the food situation with most species, bugged the fish into near nonexistence (and for awhile MIGRATION ZONES) making ptera and beipis nearly impossible to survive with, FPS drops for no reason I can grasp (including at my fav hangout location), so many issues. And I'm still struggling with sta recovery with the resting buff if it's even working correctly.
The game frankly is in developmental crisis, part of me thinks they need to sit down and reevaluate what game they want to make, fully develop the survival and activities of life and reliably of such before they add a single new dino, accept it having to be a pure dino sim and drop the human/mutant stuff nobody cares about (and they hate pvp, but wth do they think will happen when humans/mutants get added? what else COULD happen? WHAT IS THEIR PLAN?)... and part of me thinks the game just needs a new developer entirely or at least an enormous culling of leadership out of lack of faith in it. I also think doing that after already doing it with Legacy could send a message that would be the final straw and send the playerbase spiraling to oblivion.
I don't blame you for a long write, clearly the whole dino life sim invokes a passion in people. Which unfortunately has led to the current situation where the people who want one keep on buying and playing and making excuses for this/these game which would have been rightfully buried in any other genre for obvious poor quality and poor developers. It's a sad state of affairs, especially considering The Isle IS the closest we got to the pure immersive experience wanted but I doubt they can pull it off in the long run or even if that's what they want.
Wow I loved this video! I really like your commentarys and Speedpaints, your one of the people that inspired me to start making my own. I really like the points you brought up in the video, like the diseases and sharpening claws
Aw, thankyou! I'm so glad to hear that
abt carnivore migrations: the carnivores dont have any migration zones of their own but are instead directed to the nearest migration zone of their preferred prey
I definitely agree with the longer you trot, the more stam you get, currently it just isn’t fair that trotting doesn’t regenerate your stam and the walking speed for most animals makes very little difference to sitting aswell
I’m not saying stamina shouldn’t be a valued resource. I’m just saying it’d be nice if pressing my shift key wasn’t a death sentence if my hunt lasts more than 2min.
Stamina regen should be faster than exhausting it. You should be punished for wasting a full bar of stam, but rewarded for keeping it topped off. I’m sure someone can think of a balance ghat goes off of faster stam regen the more stam you already had or something.
Looks like the recent closed stress test is addressing those stam issues: It seems that the increase in stam regen the longer you sit has increased: So instead of sitting for 4-5 mins it's more like 2-3
Wrong, it's exactly the same as it is currently. Live branch has the exponential regen based on resting time, stamina is identical.
-Stress Tester.
@@Potentially_Hacker what's what I said: Stam same, you recover it faster the longer you rest
Honestly, the RNG is what drives me away most of the time, it's so boring walking around hoping to run into a Herbi to feed..only to walk my dino to death.
Excellent video. Highlights most of the gripes I’ve heard about the game in a respectful way. Look forward to seeing more from you.
i wrote my comment like 20 minutes ago on your other video, and now going to this one i think im gonna start up The Isle!!
I played for a total of 3 hrs back in 2022, and havent played since. So, I might aswell try again if you find it at least a bit more enjoyable :D
2:20 you’re right, everyone was just running across the map all the time. I’ve played it but also normally watch Isle “let’s play” vids on TH-cam - most videos consist of ppl running blindly across the map often falling to their deaths (I’m looking at you, Laacer!)
I literally said the same thing about the carno 😂 I followed the actual migration zone one time and ended up in the swamps… my thought was pretty much… “um… okay…” there was nothing to eat there and I ended up dying of starvation. Not to mention carno can’t even swim… and I’ve also said that migration zones should be visible along with sanctuary icons so a player has a choice. Not everyone wants to go to the sanctuary to grow.
Migration feels more like its based on your location than your species. As a Tenonto, I was hanging around the small pond to the right of the northern bay, and no matter how long it was, my zone was NE plains/lake the entire IRL day. Once I started hanging in the plains after literal hours of going back and forth exploring that area, it finally moved.... to the rolling hills/cliffs that are NE of the NE plains. So while I do like it, it doesn't seem to move around as much as it should.
I think you understand the intent behind The Isle really well, it's refreshing to have a commentator approach the past issues and the strategies the Devs are trying to do to improve the experience for survival orientated players, not just turn it into the death match PvP many were unhappy with, I'm also very optimistic about the game after Gateway and I am patient enough to know they have to try things out first to get it right latter... also I totally want more AI variety, smarter AI, and more of them, I feel this will help a lot with immersion.. thanks for the well thought out commentary on the game
Oh hey thankyou! :0 I'm glad you enjoyed :D
Also gosh you and me both- good AI I feel is so integral for this game. As it is in all survival games.
ANOTHER BANGER
Totally agree with your video. Great analysis and fun edits. Been playing for a long time. Was so grateful for the recent update. For the first time in years, I feel hope for this game. I like your idea of lizards in sanctuary. I would caution against making more AI that are the same species as players. I think a distinction makes the players feel special and a part of team comprised of people. Either way, more PVE is the right direction here.
Thankyou!
Also yeah I see a lot of people who seem to feel the same way about AI of the playables. Though I do think this game REALLY needs it, I totally get it why people don't like it- cause it does make it a little confusing and take away from the special ...ness of player interactions. Like when Teno AI was in (currently I think it's not) it was a little annoying as a teno to find other tenos only for them to just be AI.
I feel much of this could be solved with making it more obvious what are bots and what aren't (different skins or smt idk) and making the AI better. Like having them follow migration patterns so it would make sense to follow them if you wanted- or allowing players to interact with them more (like joining their group or getting em to join yours). Rambled a bit but u get the idea lol
Wow, everything you said was spot on. I’ve been playing The Isle since release, and thinking about ways they should fix issues forever, but the ways you explain the games issues are perfect. Fantastic video!
Thankyou!!
I agree with a lot of the statements of this video. Its good to have other objective thinkers and problem solvers out there! Felt like I was alone out there... in the entirety of the internet! Maybe that's just because I'm a bit more.. vocal? Idk. Anyway.
From what I've seen. (I haven't been able to play the Isle since Galli/Cera/Beipi were released, keep this in mind. I will be getting a new computer Soon, so I may come up with more ideas later on if I experience stuff myself.) But, I've watched a lot of people play this game. And I can still get an objective opinion for myself. Even though I hear all of the complaining.
From what I've observed. Cera and Carno have the short end of the stick primarily being the land hunters. Both of their hunger drains excessively! And I believe it was originally like that, because the Spiro Map was always, always, ALWAYS filled with bodies! Because of the Deathmatch mentality. (Which caused LAG; this was an attempt to lessen the lag server side. A Patch if you will.) And, because of this, it could support their fast hunger drain. From what I've seen of the new map and the new stamina system. Which.. like you said, feels like the Legacy one has returned. -
(I too always seemed to have walked everywhere rather than run. This would not effect my playstyle at all.)
The Spiro Hunger drain is simply no longer supported! Its drain needs to be slowed down, so you have time to get too places. Or, at least hold you out long enough to reach the next migration zone, so you can hunt your prey. However, NOT so long, that all your own personal diets are completely tapped out, which would make hunting exceedingly more difficult- because the prey would be topped off in all their diets while the carnivore would be struggling with no diets at all. Which, is not on.
It should be balanced to the point where, their diets are beginning to suffer- and if they fail a hunt, they start to slowly get weaker due to lack of sustenance. It makes logical sense to me. And honestly, would make it fair. You are completely right, Carnivores SHOULD be a high skill character to play. Herbivores are generally more relaxed and are easier to grow because of this, but still should be skill based as well. It will be obvious who is and who isn't a good player upon interaction! (This also shows realism; the weak and the young are always the first to go.)
On Spiro, they were way, way to easy to grow and play. People didn't value them like you also have mentioned, so they'd yolo into a stego for the giggles, which only told me that they were.. simply bored of that animal. Which, that honestly SHOULDN'T be the case. You should WANT to keep your animal alive. Elders and Mutations will help, but they also need to be EARNED. Herbivores, from what I understand WONT get Mutations, only Carnivores can. So, Herbivores- need to be well equipped to handle mutated monsters heading their way to a very specific degree.
So, for example: A dilo would normally handle, tenos. But, if they upgrade into a mutant, they may treat killing a stego as easily as a teno. Right? Makes sense. Because they earned to gain that bit of boost in power- there fore, entering a new life system. Their diet system should flex with their physical change. Hunt more items or, at the very least make a few select few have un-biased diet, kind of like a Deino. So they can hunt and chase anything they come across. BUT ONLY a few short few. Not all!
Herbivores in general SHOULD be powerful and strong- especially in groups. That's simply how they are in real life. Only the weak or the young are picked off. Large confident packs should be able to dwindle away at a strong herd, but not because they're too "OP" but because they had Skill! Cause a bit of panic and chaos into the hearts of Herbivores- that would make a very fun dynamic. That would force players to weight their odds. Why body guard if you simply don't have the stamina to risk- let the skilled carnivores have their spoils. They lived this long for a reason- and they SHOULD wear their battle scars like a trophy! This dynamic would honestly raise the stakes of combat- and give for awesome battles. It wouldn't be frustrating like it is on the Spiro map because of the constant KOS even if you were a meager nothingness of being a fresh spawn. (I only mention this, because it's been a problem. It hasn't for me, because I was a paranoid enough player to not suffer the ire of KOSers. lol!)
For Herbivores, personally I think them getting the extra "Boosts" from sharpening their claws and horns makes since. This would also help deter wannabe hunters- this could be their version of "Mutations" however maintaining this pique performance should be a bit of a chore. This way, there isn't an over abundance of "OP" herbivores. It would be kind of a trade off. Not everyone is willing to seek out specific things to maintain pique efficiency, either because its too much work or you simply don't care. But for those who do- and for the carnivores who come across one of these Herbivores would find a shocking surprise. Reward those who seek strength; who earned their way to this stage. Its a SURVIVAL game, it needs these elements to be successful! The feeling people get after obtaining their rewards and their achievements is worth it for a lot of people. IF the Herbivore died of old age with these special perks for maintaining perfect optimization, should be rewarded a new Perk or very special rare skin, or unlock special new colors to mark that THEY EARNED that reward. There can be other rewards for maintaining that power of coarse, but those are simply examples.
Comment is too long-- will have Part Two down below on my own comment.
Part Two of the Comment:
I also personally think that Apex Predators and Herbivores ALSO need to be severely earned. They SHOULD NOT be easy to grow, they SHOULD be a struggle to maintain. You know why? Because they SHOULD be heavily Skill based dinosaurs, they themselves should be a trophy to reach adulthood, they should be earned and played by the best of players! Why? Because this would limit the Apex issue that Legacy has. It would be a natural selection system. Only the most dedicated and most skilled would ever survive. and I honestly believe that Apex dinosaurs SHOULDN'T be allowed to be instantly grown on Private servers. Like.. at all! Because, as soon as people can buy their way into an Apex, you'll be facing the same problem Legacy has. Regardless of them keeping the Apex alive or not. It takes away the reward of growing and surviving as an Apex. If you can simply... be insta-grown into one. It isn't fair to the eco system. Especially if the Devs wanted to CREATE an eco system in the first place. I'd even personally take away the grazing system for Herbivore Apexes as well; so they can't simply eek along on grass when they're starving. Herbivore apexes should be played strategically. Again, because they shouldn't be easy to grow or maintain. An Apex is an Apex, they're generally overpowered compared to the rest of the roster. Yes, lower tiers maybe faster. But, not all. From what I've seen of Rex, it's trot is as fast as a Cerato while its running! Or, so it appears from the footage I've seen. Maybe that will be heavily altered later down the line I don't know. All I know is, is that Apex Stamina should be heavily valued. It could make or break the entire animal. But, it also needs the reserves to handle not starving to death entirely while it recovers its stamina. Apex Herbivores I believe will have the luxury to still wander around while recovering their stam, because they walk everywhere in the first place. While Carnivores have to hunt and waste stam to survive. That is simply the nature of things. So, if you run into a Trike or Shant, its likely they have full stamina. So, you'd have to approach them like they are. Even if they might not.
The player should also get a connection with their animal of choice. They should feel sad, but accomplished if they reached a stage in life, that their animal dies of old age. Especially if they were nested in. Give grander more interesting rewards if you were nested in- make it worth the effort. Having a sort of family tree could make things interesting as well. Make the rewards worth it for the parents as well. Everything, should feel like an achievement, no matter what you are doing in the game. This, is what makes survival in its truest aspects, worth it.
Your stamina recommendation makes a lot of sense. I agree with that. Reward the players who choose to play the game correctly; and punish those who don't. If the Devs want a specific playstyle, they need to reinforce those ideologies! Patches help- but aren't the primary fix. Finding solutions to get what you want is absolutely needed. And that's important for a game like this one. Survival games are hard to nail down. But, if done right; it will be an amazing experience!
Sorry for the Novel. But, that's my take on what I've learned so far. And what I would like to see in the game! Hopefully, this expectation becomes reality. YES, this is a game and it should be fun and shouldn't be based on reality that much. But, the problem is, survival is based on reality. Things shouldn't be spoon fed to people. Maybe, there could a several small tier if not a couple of medium sized dinosaurs that ARE super easy to keep grow and maintain. Maybe those dinosaurs could be the most preferred on various carnivore diets. Increase the populations of those dinosaurs, make them more desired for the casual players! But those dinosaurs should have lots of colors, patterns and maybe even accessories to pick from. Make them unique and special, so you don't feel like you're growing the same ol' Omni over and over again. Make these casual grown dinosaurs more desirable when it comes to its diversity in diet and biome interaction. Make these dinos more worth the time!
I'd also recommend a Dossier when creating your dinosaur. So people can SEE the skill levels required or estimated requirement, So, people can SEE if these particular dinosaurs might match their expectations, their energy levels, their time restraints. Interest level in biomes from their diet choices(Wither you're a Herbi, Carni or Omni). Because, not everyone HAS time to grow a 6 hour long dinosaur. But, if they want to have time to play something fun within 30 minutes? Perfect! Have all of those type of stats ready to preview so people have the correct expectation going into the game, and not wasting their time. Because if people know what they're getting into from the get go to some mild extent, then they go into creating their character and hopping into the game!
I don't think having Damage output, weight, stam values and all the basic stats like that aren't necessary. Because, its still fun to discover what kind of attacks and special abilities you may have while playing in game. But, I feel like the Grow Time would be a QoL thing that would help with decision making. Having a description as simple as: "Avaceratops is an aggressive dinosaur, known to living in mountainous regions or jungle biomes, where they're agility allows them to traverse otherwise treacherous terrains." This would tell the player they're likely to hang out in those regions without telling the player what might also be hanging out there, and what the instant threats maybe. Wither it be AI or other players. Vague but telling you know? It also gives a possible hint as to what you're special ability maybe. So, for example for a current dinosaur in the game maybe: "Herrerasaurus has been observed to live in high locations, taking their prey by surprise! They are known to hunt small prey, however observed testing their skills on larger prey items!"
So, in context with out it telling you everything about it. You might assume it can only climb trees; but then discover it can climb human structures and rock surfaces! It can swim rather well and has a good jump. Those are all discoveries made in-game not outright told. Hunting small prey, this is rather diverse. What is considered small? Rabbits? Beipi? Well, what about a Galli? It's not a very heavy animal. So, could that be considered small? Who knows, find out in-game! That sort of thing. Make it fun to still discover while playing. You wouldn't know all the ins and outs of you're dinosaurs entire diet list; other than the fact they're Carnivore, Herbivore or Omnivore.
TL:DR: I agree with you. Everything should be earned and skill based- the rewards for this, should also be good and a sign of your detection and achievements!
Sounds like the perfect way to make this work is carnivores have high top speed but low stamina. Their goal is to try to sneak up on prey without alerting them, the less distance they can create between themselves and their target, the more advantageous it is for them. This means avoiding things like making noise or attacking from an obvious location where they can see you coming, basically like an assassin. You do not want to turn it into a stamina competition as a carnivore. You will always lose that against herbivores that are well rested. As a carnivore, your stomach should not run out super quickly after getting a full meal in (stomach should be full for at least a day and a half before drain starts provided you aren’t sprinting or breeding), but should start exponentially getting lower and lower the longer you go without a meal. Herbivores have high top speed, high stamina, but slower acceleration than carnivores. As herbivores do not get as much nutrients from their food as carnivores do, eating grass or foliage should be a common thing they have to do in order to make it to their next major food item this opens them up to getting snuck up on by carnivores and basically means they have to play defense with lookouts and sentries to alert the herd to a sneaking predator. A good lookout and alert call will save a herd while a negligent one will doom one of the herd to death. I feel like these changes alone would introduce a lot more team play and forethought to actions. The only other thing I can think is that there needs to be some incentive to make herbivores want to flee more than fight, zebras could probably team up and kill a bunch of lions, but they usually don’t do that because it opens them up to also getting attacked. Maybe herbivores have a higher bleed rate, or are prone to infection that they will have to cure with a specific food item upon being injured(that debuff can cause them to standout to predators and make their top speed or acceleration even lower, this will incentivize most herbivores to run).
I love your thoughtful approach to talking about the flaws in the new systems in a constructive way. As more and more gets added, with a little tweaking this game could be so incredible!!
Good video and background footage. 9:19 for example was so fitting
Thanks! I just HAD to add that in this video, that whole thing felt like a movie scene
the way the raptor came up on the rock I was hiding under and called out. I managed to escape unseen tho!
I tend to play the isle for a week of two every few months or so only because it becomes extremely repetitive very quickly. I only just now started playing gateway and agreed with you on most things. I mostly play alone and end up a malnourished carnivore living of whatever critter I may find. The game becomes much, much easier even after just having one partner because you rarely find pray in small enough groups to effectively hunt.
I will say: the thing about Stam building faster the longer you sit is newer. Most people saying they didn't like it was the worse version a few weeks ago.
I hope they add wet and dry seasons which affect water levels and availability. Meaning in the dry season some ponds would dry up and rivers would get smaller. Also tie that to food availability according to season and also time of day. So frogs would be found more in the wet season during the evenings, nights and mornings. Not so much during the day and even less during dry seasons. Chickens would be opposite and only be seen during the day because they roost at night. Same with plants for the herbivores. During winter plants would be less available and provide less nutrition and food. Of course they need to get AI working and in the right numbers first because we're already starving. We don't need to make it any harder to find food.
4:20 YES! I hope the devs do exactly that. I'm fine with impactful stamina nerfs, but the current system just slows EVERYTHING down
I would think it would be cool like you said if we got a territory system for another interesting PVE mechanic. Or becoming an alpha in a group if you win a duel. Or if there was also a system, within that system where it can tell if you're a bad leader somehow, don't know how that would work exactly, like, at all, but still a fun idea to add to the game. The way I see it for getting a "bad leader" score would be like this...
1. If you take too many risks to get to a migration zone. Like going thru more leg break territories as a creature that can't jump; mountainous regions, or swimming for too long of a distance.
2. If too many of your members die in close succession. Like if 3 or more members die within a few minutes of each other.
3. If you become too aggressive towards your own group members. Like you "friendly" fire too often.
Maybe when you meet all of these poor choice requirements, you'll gain a little tag on your name saying [Poor] that all group members can see, but you could also receive other tags saying, [Moderate], or [Great]. The tags'll only show up if you're the current leader of a group. And people can always choose to fight you for leadership if they want. If you spar with somebody and 4 call, you at that point give up your position. But if you want to keep fighting to the death, you can or until pure exhaustion (no more stam left).
And for things, such as the idea of territories. I'm thinking something similar to how Wolf Quest kinda does it. But we're not able to use an in game map to see where we are... So, I'm trying to think how it could work without the use of a map. For one thing, there needs to be visual markers that somebody can see and smell, like...
1. Poo piles.
2. Claw marks.
3. Spots that look like they've been rubbed on.
4. Specific to horned/spiked creatures. Big, very easy to see, gashes on trees, or small ditches where a lot of dirt was moved on the ground, like a digging motion.
I’m most curious to see the mutations. I think once we start seeing how mutations work with all the other systems it will tie everything together. Your diet, mating, actions will have consequences and meaning.
My problem right now is spawning in, moving towards a migration zone for food but then dying of hunger cause I run out of stamina and can’t regenerate it :/
I would love if they implement natural catastrophes, like wild fires, floods, etc
thank you for making the carnivore RNG problem, the reason why i have the isle uninstalled is because i cannot play carnivore without being in hotspot and impossible to grow without being killed by max growth players or traveling around trying to find any semblance of food. hunting real players is something i would dream of and not even my main objective when i play carnivore.
Damn... I didn't actually think that The isle could actually improve. You make such good points, I hope that your critique will encourage the devs to improve their game
5:02 I've gotta say, I was 100% a Spiro Sprinter and I ran *everywhere* I went(depending on the species but usually omni), and with the release of the new stam system I thought I was gonna hard struggle, I ended up liking this new stam system *more* than the last. If the old system came back(first off I'd really dislike it), I'd still trot everywhere since I just prefer it.
Personally I can attest that it's really not that hard of a change to make, just.. don't run..? You'll learn to appreciate the game more and the views and just have a really chill with your present company. Now I literally just trot everywhere with Metta and when it's time for action *then* we press the shift key and get our >:] faces on 😂
heck even in a lot of fights things are taken pretty slow when we hunt(despite what my videos show), I do the initial explosion of power and Metta plays the long game. Honestly so much more fun and interesting than the old stam system💯
And Gateway is cool, I enjoy the new map but I wish hotspots were gone and migrations worked a taaad bit better but hey, genuinely beautiful map with lots of interesting places. Also I pretty much agree with the illusion of difficulty, carnivore feels a little luck based and finding players where I'm *told* to expect them is gambling at best. PvE is so sorely needed for *all* species, the game is exactly what you said too, "walk" and "kill players ig". Nesting is meh and there's almost nothing to do other than PvP, I want to be able to interact with members of my own kind non lethally:[
7:25 or the 3rd option, turn up their gamma, idc if the devs dont like it its their fault for making it so bad
LMAO.
Lmao. This game is a broken piece of crap and its been like that for over 10 years
I just got the game as a new player shit keeps crashing Dev Team really need fix the error
I like the game but it’s annoying
well i don't have that problem carnivores have highlands and south plains as hot zones for carnivores to hunt and for herbivores to defend
it's crazy what hiring a map designer will do for a game huh
What about some kind of super migration for all/most herbivores making a jurassic park style herd but limit the food enough to encourage break off when over population occurs/ maybe to nest with less competition and predators
wonderful video, im considering trying out one of these creature-survival games, and the vibes i got from this video has significantly moved me closer to trying out the isle
Migration zones never.. and I mean never have any food in them. I'm usually a herrerasaurus but even as a herbivore.
I've even spawned at the start of a reset in a mz and nothing 😂😂
very well done subbed
What i think they really need to do, z walk is a base long walk not a wittle baby tap tap tap but a walk, a trot is when 2 feet leave the ground much likr a job of two legged animals as trot is almost exclusively 4 legged run is like a canter where all but one foot leaves the ground or on two legged they pick up speed and get a really long stride but arent going at their fastest many animals are able to uphold this for extended periods of time usually about 1-2 miles worth while babys can usually do 3-4 miles worth.
And Sprint is usually short bursts on faster animals about 1 mile worth at most but think lions, or cheetahs, or even race horses they sprint and its longer strided and faster typically with all legs going off the ground alot.
If they implemented this idea which follows all gates it would make everything perfect gate wise, and really z walk should be just that a walk not a tippy tap or realllly slow trot
As for carnivores and even herbivores there needs to be a realistic starvation mechanic where they dont just DIE but instead starving means if you cannot find food within 24 hours your belly gets smaller add another 24 and you belly gets even smaller, another 24 and neck or tail gets smaller, another 24 some ribs. 5-7 days later you could be looking like a skinny hungry animal with a debuff like being weaker, another 7-14 dats depending on size and fat deposits you could be literal skin and bones amd slowly waste away eventually your dinosaur force laying down and eventually on one of those lay downs just... dieing literally just going to sleep and you get the screen. This is how reptiles starve, this is how large animals starve.
They could also implement that not eating enough to bring you back to health makes you still loose weight and get skinnier, if you dont manage to eat again realistically if you starve and eat a sandwich no matter what you are your still starving...
With that then if you consistently could eat over another 3-4 in game days you could bring your dino back to health making it even more realistic as most wild animals are either fit or a bit skinny.
You could do the same with water while the forst 24 hours after having no water is just like YOU NEED water but 2-4 days later you start slowly dieing after 4 your dino starts falling or being weaker regaining little to no stam and eventually falling over and dieing much like dehydration, with this you could see less dirt and more dryness on the dino as well they may have cracked skin or sores ext.
With that you could then implement a very real thing...wounds make you loose water faster! While a scratch wont do much, a large wound into muscle will make you dehydrate faster think 2 days instead of 3 if you dont drink and 1 day if its several large wounds.
Another thing they need to do is make the compass more 3d most animals can smell in 3D even humans can most animals can also smell water, fun fact natural water is VERY smelly.
Humans can only smell water within about 10-20 feet depending on size, larger water is smellier so for example someone can smell the sea about 2-10 miles before due to its size.
Making it possible to smell water and go to that direction easily would be realistic since we can smell the direction of water. But pure perfect overly filtered water barely has a smell.
Another thing we can smell foods within a quarter to half a mile
Now think of how strong animal senses are when our own senses are just as strong?
We can also hear up to 2-5 miles out at different levels so again think of it
They need to implement things with these in mind.
it's always raining and the rain is unbearable because you cannot hear anything, it seems like it's night-time for an hour and then daytime for 10 minutes, for deino players the map is terrible, you've basically got to either play as a cannibal and eat fish and you're stuck on one side of the map meaning everyone knows where the crocs are and they just go to the small ponds to drink out of. there's one hotspot it seems on the entire map which is south plains and it sucks there. - also if it's raining all the time why the fuck can't there be puddles that form so deinos might actually be able to travel to smaller ponds etc and not dehydrate within 4 minutes.
The old map had the pond, and shallows, two busy areas.. it had Swamps near the log which always had action and Central area, then they changed the map and deleted a shit ton of trees and everyone went to "the bowl" which imo made the map terrible.
Stamina regen takes too long now, if you're playing something that relys on killing something to survive and it takes 45 minutes to kill them, you're not only starving to death while doing it but needing to sit down and lose their location every 5 minutes because you're regening stamina for 10 minutes is pathetic. IT'S A VIDEO GAME.
ALSO, the old tracking system was so much better, you didn't have to press a quick time event to find where they were headed, just follow their little yellow footsteps. which could also get overwhelming if there was a lot of players around but thats what made tracking someone fun, if you were being chased you could literally run to shallow water if you weren't bleeding you could lose people, wallowing next to water to lose people, the game was FUN.
lizards in the sanctuaries are genius
(I made this comment as a reply to someone else, but I’ll make it again in general since I feel it’s important)
The RNG and having to hope on luck or chance is truly just awful for certain carnivores. For players who are like me and play deinosuchus because we want to play a more patient, ambush based playstyle, it’s crippling, especially when you factor in the design of gateway and the stamina system. You’ve likely seen the dozens of waterfalls that break up rivers, ponds, and lakes, and how getting from one to another can be quite the journey, especially if you are slow on land like a deino is. It essentially throws out the whole migration mechanic for one creature, and forces you to rely on hanging out in hotspots like NE for food or to cannibalize your fellow crocs to survive, especially when you get larger. Add in the fact that AI doesn’t need to eat or drink, and you are solely reliant on fish or killing players to survive. I can only imagine how bad it might get when they add rex, and all the players that currently play deino because it’s the strongest swap over, meaning less crocs for cannibalizing when you inevitably can’t get food from players.
Compare that to something like a Ptera, who can reliably fish for food and never have to compete with players, or Ceratos who can eat and scavenge literally anything while being able to more freely traverse the map, and you see where this can truly get frustrating.
I put 1000 hours in Evrima/Gateway and I loved it but ultimately I quit because the game isn't fully ready. The amount of dinos I've spent hours growing and lost due to bugs is insane. Typically getting stuck bug or you falling 1cm and dying instantly. Or the Raptor pounce being broken. I just don't have the time to waste 3 hours growing (for the 500th time) to die outside of combat
just fix or get rid of Migration and fix some stam stuff and everything is fine, it sucks spawning just to see that you have to run 30-60min to your daam food so you end up killing yourself hoping to spawn in a Migration zone but surprise there is no spawn in a Migration zone so you better start running to survive but surprise again the Migration zone changed and surprise again, you are starving and there is mountain or cliff in your way and than you arive and the server restarts setting the zone somewere else again, what a fun game
I think this game is not for you guys.
It s not a survival game, i t s a pvp game with survival elements.
What do you expect a dinosaur to do, build houses, do quests?
A dinosaur, especially small, will hide for most of its life, it s hillarious that actually the game is very accurate, you walk you hunt, you hide.
I think what you want is a pve only server with a more complex ai system.
Amd i ve seen many instances where fighting was awesome, almost artistic. It s hunt showdown with dinosaurs, lol.
My comment was mainly directed to your last video with the flawed game.
Gateway more so kept the isle alive long enough for the mutations/dibble update to save it, like life support, and with all the quality of life stuff im sure they will continue to add, it will get better, unless dondi somehow . . . Dondis it again 😒
Small note but there is a third way to take off as the Petra, but it's only applicable in certain conditions. If you are on a cliff edge or something and simply walk off the edge, you can open your wings on the fall down and take flight for no stamina cost
i hate gateway so much, i loved the previous evrima map and i believe gateway is inferior in every way
imo its still exactly the same as when u made the last vid, if not worse..
p.s the worlds also still empty lol
I know it isn't ideal, but I see starving to death as a carnivore as an automatic server balancer. If there is no food, you should grow a herbivore or an omnivore
If the isle used Prior extinctions wellbeing system it could either go very well, or very bad
SKILL ISSUE..........
11:47, every word is just like i feels, really feels like you need luck on your side to find food.
I feel like the carnivores could benefit from mechanics from evolve, like the birds that might give herbivores away. This might also be interesting for herbivores, in a way that they need to be careful when moving around to not cause to much attention to themselves.
This musn't be limited to stuff like birds you spook, but could be things like stepping in a certain kind of mud, that leaves very obvious (and easy to spot even from a larger distance) tracks to follow and the like. Basically environmental clues, where to find food, that work over longer distances, which can be avoided by the herbivore, if said herbivore pays attention (which ai likely wouldn't as much).
"its a glorified walking sim" would be more of an accurate statement now then ever, removing the option to sprint around everywhere practically kills the only replayable factor of the game in its current state, that being the pvp (it also feels clunky asf). Its fine to change it from being a fighting game when there is enough content to justify that decision, but right now there isnt.
ima be honest, I like the map, but there way to many cliffs or to steep places to walk on, I can barely survive being on land. The only dino I can survive as is a deino, like I want to play as other dinosaurs but I cant bc I keep breaking a leg or I cant find any food. Sometimes the clfifs gets me stuck and I am gonna have to die to get unstuck. so i kinda hate gateway tbh. Old map was better in my opinion
well i do play much more cuz my friend buy The Isle recently and we do play Deinos a LOT, and the issu that we do have almost everytime then one of us dies is staving, Deinos are prety big but the only thing that can make your hunger good for regen health fully without needing to get back to fight is stegos, and of course, others deinos, but fully grown steg are relly f***** tanky and you just can't kill them if they are not in whater so your only option is to kill other deinos cuz almost all the others dinos don't give you that much food, you get a full carno, it's only by 25% food, same for tenos or ceras, even stegos that are not to heavy for you to pick up and drown gives you like 30% food, i do think a lot that dev's need to teak that food amount for deinos, with the last fish update, it's easier cuz fish do spawn more and they gives you more food, but why are fishses giving total more food then fully grown dinos that you can catches? frogs don't give you food at all that is logical then you are adult but herras do gives you like 3% and uthas around 10% imagine how many players you have to catches for getting back to normal condition of hungers then you are starving or almost
Thank you so much for this video. i've taken a hiatus from the isle since they released cera. Will def redownload and try again. Herbie gameplay lacked so much when i last played 😄
hehhhh heheh eh eh eh heehhhhhhhhhh
(this stam system is almost exactly what devs added)
I agree completly with u, nothing more to say. U found the words for all my problems with this game. Thank you.
The fact that you say Petra instead of Ptera tells me you're a Primal Carnage player, no judgement. Just an observation
7:19 or, the more sinister and more likely option, more people will start using gamma filters. I've never used a gamma filter in a game before, but upon loading up the isle after the obligatory 2 year break and seeing absolutely nothing at all, i decided to look up how to use one. Turns out it's really easy, and i'm convinced, based on my interactions, that almost every other player is using them as well.
When i grow a dino
me: yay
2 days later: should i log on? i might starve
I've been involved in game design for several years now, and from what I can tell, the biggest issue this game faces is that its entire development revolves around a _concept_ rather than a _system._ Someone, somewhere, came up with the idea of "realistic dinosaur survival game"... and then not much else.
I think you hit the nail on the head in your previous video when you suggested that the developers take an actual game design course. Because the truth is, there are some fundamental elements that are _required_ in a game that are simply missing from the Isle which, at best, shifts it out of "videogame" territory and into "simulator" territory.
First off, there is no end goal. Games _need_ an end goal, whether that be rescuing the princess at the end of the dungeon or getting a high score by eating glowing white dots and avoiding ghosts. In the Isle, it seems the only real goal is to play until you die, then start over, which would be fine if there was some way to record your progress - a final score or survival time, maybe something to record the amount of kills or damage dealt, and leader boards with which to compare that score with others or even just yourself. In its current state, I'd say the game appears to be perpetually "unfinished," but it'd be more accurate to say it's "unstarted." It really seems like this game suffers from good ideas with no direction.
Maybe I'm over-stepping, but if I were in charge of this game, I would make some drastic changes, such as getting rid of the stamina system altogether. I know it's a staple of the survival genre, but there doesn't seem to be much purpose for it here other than "survival games have stamina bars, don't they?" To me, its only purpose is to restrict playstyle, when in reality, they should strive to encourage _other_ playstyles. In fact, here's a list of change that I would suggest:
First and foremost, add in a more in-depth stat system other than "damage and health." These two stats alone are not enough to balance a multiplayer game. A good basis would be the typical moba system - two forms off damage, such as ability damage and basic damage, and two forms of defense, such as base defense and health. Give each dinosaur a varied balance of each stat to direct their intended playstyle. This alone will make PvP feel much more intuitive and interesting.
Get rid of the stamina bar, and instead, encourage players to walk or stalk slowly with other means - a temporary damage or speed boost from an ambush; a damage mitigation buff that increases while walking and decreases while sprinting; birds or branches that make noise if disturbed by sprinting, alerting others in the area. Being forced walk for minutes at a time only serves to diminish a players investment and will lead to them simply turning off the game.
Get rid of starvation, but not necessarily the hunger meter. Starving to death seems unacceptable given there are no checkpoints or respawns. Instead, add a permanent debuff that reduces damage, sprinting speed, or health whilst starving - as well make a visual or audible cue to others showing that you're starving. This will encourage players to choose their targets carefully, will alert players when you're vulnerable, and to hunt proactively so to not be a potential target.
Get rid of eyesight penalty at night, but keep the day night cycle. Add buffs to nocturnal dinosaurs during the night - increased damage, ambush time, sprinting speed. You could even add specific abilities that can only be used exclusively during the night. Do the same with the day characters - health and mitigation bonuses during the day, standard stats at night.
Get rid of random AI. Instead, add in a constant source of food in small regions, separated far apart on the map. This will give carnivores a sort of "hub" to rest or regain strength, whilst giving herbivores clear and obvious places to avoid. Reduce the frustration of never finding food due to RNG as well as give the player active goals to travel between. These "hubs' can also act as a respawn point. Speaking of which -
Add. In. Respawns. Losing hours of progress is simply not an enjoyable mechanic and actively dissuades players from investing time into your game. Add respawns. _Allow_ players to make mistakes, then give them opportunity to fine tune their gameplay and try again. If needs be, add in a "Hardcore" or "Realistic" mode in which respawns are turned off and players must suffer the consequences. As a rule, punishing players for their mistakes is fine - so long as they're given the opportunity to correct those mistakes and venturing towards their goals. Which leads to -
Goals and accomplishments. These can be anything. AI mini-bosses that patrol certain biomes; hard to reach vista points that require dinosaurs capable of platforming maneuvers; hidden lore drops sprinkled throughout the map. Give the players something to work towards other than fighting each other. Give them a reason to _want_ to play your game.
I could go on, and in truth, I would probably end up turning this entire game into a massive dungeon crawler, but my point stands. It can work as a survival game, which is what many, MANY players desire, but there are several undeniable gaps in the very foundation of this games development and are honestly very simple fixes. Aesthetically, it's gorgeous. The level design, sound design, and animation are all splendid and the passion behind them is obvious. I do believe it would greatly benefit from a consultation from an experienced game director, as most of these changes are well within their capabilities. As it is, I'll continue to check in to see its progress and hope one day it turns into everything they hoped it would.
See the problem is that the dev team arent video game developers, they are former ark survival evolved modders trying to make their own game. They had some internal conflict with one of the developers and that person essentially hard coded the isle legacy in a way that the current "devs" couldnt (or didnt know how to) make ANY changes, so they had to start again from the ground up, which is why evrima can not use any assets from the legacy build. If you buy and download the isle today, the isle legacy is what you will initially download and im convinced that the current dev teams just dont know how to fix this, because theres no reason for legacy to be the primary build of the game at this point. The "devs" dont know what they are doing and are too cheap to hire any real developers to help them fix the game. Any criticism seen by the lead "developer" dondi, is met with cynical vitriol and results in being banned or timed out in the discord, whether its constructive criticism or not. I would argue that the "devs" STILL havent even got a structured concept for the game, because what they do conflicts with the assumed concept of the game in and of itself. Its not a "realistic dinosaur survival game" and the build showcases that its actually just a glorified chat room with dinosaur avatars. Not to mention the constant talk of adding humans with guns that can build and farm (this is an artifact of the "devs" being ark modders) which completely breaks the concept of a "realistic dinosaur survival game" as humans with guns trivialize the dinosaurs if its anywhere near realistic, which makes it a glorified big game hunting, game.
I hear the Pilotredsun music. Good taste.
I like these views
how about a stam system for some dyno's that lets you regen stam if walking but after a certain time walking it doesnt, you can still use your stam pool but need to actually rest after that?
Devs as incompetent as ever
I feel an honorable mention needs to go to Herrerasaurus, possibly the best dinosaur they have made to date. With its unique mechanics it actually feels engaging and fun beyond PvP because like the Pteranodon it has viable methods of avoiding larger dinosaurs. It also has the leap which is a more fun hunting mechanic than the pvp death matches we have for other carnivores. If we get more of this the Isle could actually shape up to be a fun survival game. Its a small dinosaur kept fun and viable because it got the love it deserved.
even now the new stam doesnt save it cus ur jumping everywhere
This is a lot of what people have been saying for YEARS about Evrima. They released a barely playable demo and then expect people to rally for the game for over 2 years while it's developing and it is still a luck based death match. I'm really glad Gateway is bringing some personality back to the game- hell, maybe I'll even try playing it again in another 2 years.
I’m stuck playing legacy because no matter what setting I use evrima runs at 20 fps max 💀 I’ve got a pretty good pc too idk how everyone is running evrima at 60
Honestly The Isle is incredible. I play since 2016 too but recently I got the chance to upgrade my PC and try Evrima. I was shock... The game feels so unique. It's hard to explain because I skip the process but it was great! The combat mechanics, the diet system, the dinos and other creatures, the sounds... Even the map was great! There're things to improve, I agree with you! But I have to admit that this game is promising!
I'm a vet student and I love the fact that cannibalism can get you muscle spasm or like if you eat well you get a boost of stamina reg and you can cut up the bleed faster. I don't know what exactly they're planning for this game in the futuro but I'm sure it will be great!
How can you say its incredible when the only gameplay loop is predicated on a sunk cost fallacy????? The isle is a mile wide but an inch deep. The devs (which arent devs, but former ark survival evolved modders, trying to build their own game) are taking 1 step forward and 3 steps back at every single turn. I have over 600 hours in the isle, 85% of that time was spent afk growing in a bush... the isle is constantly in a state of "this game has so much potential!" and "it _could_ be great some day!" Except it has incompetent developers with no clear vision. 9 years in development with no base gameplay loop... STAR CITIZEN is considered a scam, and even that game has more gameplay loops than the isle... while theyre trying to build a virtual persistent universe.
Stamina, hunger and ai are all linked under some main concerns I'd have.
If they want to make a map the size of a country you gotta have the stamina to make it across to explore. To do this with carnivores, you'll also need waaaay more ai like the boar and other dinosaurs to hunt so you don't starve to death.
I get that they don't want to put too much ai in the game because they want people to fight each other but again, the map is huge and there's a limit to how many players you can have on it which'll most likely start choosing 'hotspots' where they'll congregate and leave much of the map barren.
Great to see videos on these issues where you don't dump all over the subject matter but give out your own thoughts and ideas to improve them.
Spent 8 years making it look good, and only now started trying to make it play good 💀
fr lmao
I would rather have the option of playing smaller things than not have that option. After all I love the herrerasaurus since it is pretty small however you can still kill raptors from ambush but mostly you feast on AI until your fully grown but even then you got to be careful since you die very easily. I also understand that it a brutal game and yeah it depends on luck a lot. However in my opinion it is realistic. I am not sure if what I am about to say is true or not but carnivores had to actually hunt or ambush their prey, They didn't know where to go to find food. That is the whole point of hunting, sometimes you go for an ambush fail and then end up dying because you messed up. happens to Deinosuchus when you go after stegosaurus and you aren't fully grown. In reality everything comes down to random luck and your own skill at the game as well as the experience and choices you make. Also just because you play a herbivore doesn't mean you are safe since if you are unlucky you may come across a pack of raptors or mix packers. It all depends on luck, skill and the choices you make throughout your session. You can't get rid of luck playing a part since if you do it would make the game predictable and boring. What makes life so interesting is the unpredictable nature of it. After all “If life were predictable it would cease to be life, and be without flavor.” - Eleanor Roosevelt
I think we also need to be rewarded for surviving extra long. Youd become a Veteran (species) and after that an elder (species) making you tougher
its kind of like that
u get rewarded for surviving too long as an adult + maintaining a perfect diet (which is more important factor) u get rewarded with a superior version of you.... an elder, and bc u did pretty well getting a strong one, u'll take so long to age and then after u took what u deserve u get too old, too weak and die of old age
but guess what, even after that you have choices, whenb finishing elder stage before u get too weak u can choose from surviving untill nature takes what it gave, or die naturally and get a gift smth we dont know or be a strain!
(*all of this would happen if you're good enogh to not die, also a way to make u not suicide kill ur self as an adult bc "ill regrow and fight again" now you have something to make u try to survive*)
So, for the new stamina system, you wish to see Exercise as a feature?
You want dynamic muscle growth and endurance.
You just wanna see buff dinos. I knew it.
Baby to juv stego needs more than 15 hits to the head and will fight a 50% growth carno..like what
Pt should have stam regen when gliding. And their stam should regen quicker.
Nope, as a croc i liked the previous version much more. The new update with the gateway map pretty much broke the game in regards to croc play. The map is probably too big for the player count. I have shelved the game and hardly play anymore because the thrill of the hunt is completely absent now. The game at its current state is less immersive and personally the things that made it interesting are pretty much absent now. The map is beatifull but the waterways suck and it feels empty.
Thrill of what hunt the entire way you played the game was sitting for an hour them holding right click whenever smth decided to fill a resource it required to do anything
The new map didn't "break croc" it simply made the apex carnivore actually difficult to do things with
For me I like old stam, our world is bigger and there's so much to explore! I do enjoy the slower pace as well but I don't think the default should be that, it should be an option for servers to select some if they want more realism.
quick tip or whatever; it might be a good idea to link the video this is a follow up to. nothing major found it anyway on ur channel but just odd it wasnt linked.
i believe the only gripe with gateway for me is that Deino is like almost unplayable. you spawn in the forest, or in the highlands which you can't get to the other water sources without almost dying. not to mention the north and south rivers are completely unconnected. it's just poorly designed for deinos, everything else is incredibly fun on the map though.
I mean they are cold blooded animals make sun warmth effect us
Re: migrations - I have no idea what you're talking about. There has NEVER been food at migration zones for me. The exact opposite in my experience. I completely avoid migration zones now (except after updates).
That said, I completely agree about carnivore skill vs RNG.
the thing with stamina is just not right imo. the problem this does not solve the problem it ment to "this isnt a death match game" it only makes it more annoying people still plays this like deathmatch and will play this only like deathmatch if u removed stamina compeletly they would kill eachother constantly by troting if u dont put ur game ANY OTHER atraction or activity to do other then NESTING aka SITING AFK people will keep goring eachother and on a dinosaur u cant rly add much stuff to NOT make it a deathmatch cuz those are dinosaurs animals u cant add bosses u cant add crafting etc. uk? this allways gonna be a deathmatch they just should accept everyone who plays the game should accept it and reverse the stamina update