John, thanks for continuing to raise the bar of tech for the e-bike community. You have a keen sense of what we want as enthusiasts and many thanks for this effort. Happy New Year. PS. for many of us DYI'ers, CANBUS of course is merely an effort to make motor software unhackable and pair to proprietary batteries etc and the opposite direction of the freedom most DIY'ers prefer. In the context of the M635 motor, I hope as part of your R&D, you evaluate whether its possible to connect this motor outside the limitations of CANBUS with alternative controller. If Bafang pulls the plug on BBSHD production, it will be a big loss to the community. All the best.
Hey Luke. Thanks for the kind words. Massively appreciate your support over the year. Looking to kick the channel into a higher gear next year. 2024 has been quite a difficult one all in. Cheers
@@nicod974 Have you hacked and successfully paired Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano and Panasonic CANBUS motors to generic controllers and non-proprietary batteries with either torque or cadence sensing and throttle control? Is so, can you provide a link?
Thanks Capt. for all the great videos and continuous updates over the years. I can’t believe it’s been almost 4 years since my first HV kit and it’s still running strong. My other HV kit is equally as impressive with never an issue. Someday an LR motor will be in the mix but for now my bikes are running incredibly. Happy New Year and thanks to all the HV crew! Cheers
Thank you for your videos during the year. Your videos guided me through building a CYC Photon Giant ATX conversion for the MTB trails, and ToSeven DM02 for my commute to work using an Avanti Discovery 2 step through. Looking forward to maybe a new build using the new Bafang motor. Have a wonderful New Year!
Great stuff here, VERY EXCITING developments as always!! Personally, I upgraded my Motobecane fatbike from Luna Hotrod controller BBSHD to a DM01 (Same 56V battery for both) early in the summer of 2024, and I couldn't be more pleased! The torque sensing is almost like a combination of the feel from my Specialized Turbo Levo and a bit of the better "urgency" upon pedal pressure that I like from our Giant e-bikes. It's simply phenomenal to me -- And thank you for the heads up in this video NOT TO update the firmware!
@@HighVoltageKits Thank you! I can't wait to see what comes about with the M635, also. Especially with your controller in the mix. But for me the DM01 is just "WOW!" Nearly perfect.
tptrsn, thanks for letting us know how pleased you are with the DM01 torque sensing motor as alternative to the BBSHD that I ride and love. Great to know. I hope you share the reliability of the DM01 over time with this channel. All the best.
@@lukewalker1051 If I have anything useful to add I certainly will! Unfortunately, I don't ride a lot any more, but if I do ride, it will probably be my current DM-01 equipped bike, or maybe a full suspension bike with a DM-01 on it if I happen across just the right bike that is asking for a motor. Lol
Probably a pariah in this esteemed congregation, but I have no need or want for extreme power, I just want a small, efficient, reliable, repairable motor that will readily offer 700 watts at a pinch and will get me to and from work every day... The DM02 has that kind of promise but man, what a journey
I've been using an ESC controller with the DM01 for quite some time now and it works wonderfully as an electric moped with throttle based pedal assist, except native cadence based PAS doesn't work. Not worried about the torque sensing for now. Hopefully I'll figure it out soon. I recently reinstalled the stock controller with the updated firmware before I knew of the changes and they really did manage to sabotage this motor. Bad business move and it seems to run worse than it did before the firmware update.. Once I figure out cadence based Pas in VESC, I'll be set. I'd be interested in buying one of those black gears for sure.
Sounds good! Sorry you updated the motor before you saw the warnings. Hopefully TOSEVEN will see some sense and come up with a solution that is the best of both worlds. Good luck with the cadence based PAS. There are two colored wires for the cadence signal and the white wire is the torque signal.
@@HighVoltageKits Quick questions for you. 1. Without the torque wire in the equation, does the sensor essentially become a "quadrature" PAS? This is the only type of sensor VESC natively supports without writing a script. 2. Will you have some printed 01/02 controller covers available for sell any time soon?> 3. What's the projected ETA for the peek gear?
Is there no chance you all put out a cadence sensor based hv kit for the DM01 like the bbshd, then maybe upgrade to a TS HV kit later when it's figured out? Im sure if you make a handful people will buy them, me being the first 😂
@@HighVoltageKits Thanks! I got into the ebike business late and so missed out on the bbshd wave, but when I read about torque sensing and the possibility of an hv kit, I dropped the cash on a dm01. I'd imagine I'm not the only one that bought a dm01 with the intention to upgrade it one day, and even without torque sensing it should feel mostly (or even much better based on the reduction ratio) like an upgraded bbshd. Thank you for your consideration!
@@_Drae2210It's possible you're right, but after having a decently running BBSHD bike and other nice torque sensor based motors, I wouldn't do away with the torque sensor on my DM-01 under any circumstances I can imagine.
@@HighVoltageKits I saw a Johnny Nerdout vid with the new BBS02 Canbus one and the controller connections look identical to the uART one so that is a good sign. BBSHD will hopefully be the same.
@@Hybrid600 So effectively you are saying in the context of BBSHD, that a stock controller can revert the BBSHD back to non-CANBUS running status? That would be good news.
The bbshd is a bit different but with some effort the old controller can replace the new one with the non torque sensing m625. I’m not sure on the torque sensor version yet.
@@lukewalker1051 correct. The other option would be to just get rid of the Bafang controller altogether and put an external one on to give it some real performance.
Separate comment for the poll about which ToSeven motor for you to experiment on first: Despite loving my DM01 so much, I think I vote for the DM02 to be your focus first. IIRC, you already had the DM02 running more power than my DM01 does, so I think it would be more fun to see just how far you can push that lighter, less expensive motor... Then eventually, it would be fun to see what you can do with a DM01 in full dirtbike mode too, but for now I vote DM02.
Hey Mike. It looks like the DM02 will be first by popular choice but I will for sure get to the DM01 as soon as possible. I might wait till late Feb so the roads are a bit better before I swap it out though.
You seem to be wondering a whole lot about "why" companies like Bafang and TwoSeven make changes to things that are un-helpful to the DIY community. It's simple - follow the money. They are a company, first and foremost. The DIY community is so microscopically small. Too small to support a small manufacturing run even. "Locking down the firmware" and 're-aligning' development and production of certain motor series is a financial decision. Sure they might lose several thousand (yes, only a few or several thousand) by cutting off the DIY'ers, but stand to gain MILLIONS if they can convince some other mainstream builder/manufacturer to adopt their systems - Many of which play it safe with restricted settings, proprietary bus signalling, and redesigns. First rule of making money - sell to rich people (other companies and corporations, rather than the poor (the microscopic DIY community of 'average joes'.
the DIY community are more likely to be enthusiastic about the ability to change setups in the firmware, so why not leave it as it was - fully configurable and state that changes the user makes will invalidate a guarantee.? Therefore if anyone did wreck their motor trying things that shouldn't be done they can sell another motor to the customer who may then learn their lesson.
And you seem to believe John doesn't understand the industry and will hazard a guess and say he knows a lot more about it than you. You don't know Bafang's business model of ratio of DYI sales to bike manufacturers. Two other reasons Bafang does it is to precluding turning up the amps on their stock motors which makes their motors more fragile and lastly they do it foremost for CANBUS battery pairing which has already been worked around with the M635. Of course their decisions are revenue based, that's a given.
John, thanks for continuing to raise the bar of tech for the e-bike community. You have a keen sense of what we want as enthusiasts and many thanks for this effort.
Happy New Year.
PS. for many of us DYI'ers, CANBUS of course is merely an effort to make motor software unhackable and pair to proprietary batteries etc and the opposite direction of the freedom most DIY'ers prefer. In the context of the M635 motor, I hope as part of your R&D, you evaluate whether its possible to connect this motor outside the limitations of CANBUS with alternative controller. If Bafang pulls the plug on BBSHD production, it will be a big loss to the community. All the best.
Hey Luke. Thanks for the kind words. Massively appreciate your support over the year. Looking to kick the channel into a higher gear next year. 2024 has been quite a difficult one all in. Cheers
There is no ''unhackable'' system i know of. Yet open source is the go for us diyers
@@HighVoltageKits Great news John. Your finger is right on the pulse and look forward to your content in 2025. Best in the New Year.
@@nicod974 Have you hacked and successfully paired Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano and Panasonic CANBUS motors to generic controllers and non-proprietary batteries with either torque or cadence sensing and throttle control?
Is so, can you provide a link?
DM01! 🎉😊
Winning so far!
Thanks Capt. for all the great videos and continuous updates over the years. I can’t believe it’s been almost 4 years since my first HV kit and it’s still running strong. My other HV kit is equally as impressive with never an issue. Someday an LR motor will be in the mix but for now my bikes are running incredibly. Happy New Year and thanks to all the HV crew! Cheers
Appreciate you watching, cheers. Look forward to that LR bike. Although it will make the bbshd feel a bit slower.
@
Haha, I bet the LR would be a very impressive ride.
It sits so nicely at 50-60 without even trying that much
Thanks Capt. for all the hard work! Great shoutout to the Cottonmouth as well!🙏🏽🙏🏽
Cheers mate!
Thank you for your contribution to the ebike community! Really appreciate you! I’m interested in the DM02 peak gear when you have that available!
Really appreciate the kind words. I will do a video for the gears as soon as I can in the new year. Cheers
Voting for DM02. There needs to be a small but MIGHTY motor on the market for ultimate stealth!
Pretty sure it’s the winner right now. I’ll get it installed in the new year! Cheers
Thank you for your videos during the year. Your videos guided me through building a CYC Photon Giant ATX conversion for the MTB trails, and ToSeven DM02 for my commute to work using an Avanti Discovery 2 step through. Looking forward to maybe a new build using the new Bafang motor. Have a wonderful New Year!
Thanks for the kind words! It's awesome to hear my videos helped with your builds. Cheers to a great new year!
I really like to see the telemetry on screen. Nice video !
Appreciated. I think you did a great job on yours as well
@@HighVoltageKits Thank You my friend !!
happy new year, hope to see cool break throughs in 2025 for ebikes
Happy new year mate. Thanks for all the support over the year! Also hoping for an awesome 2025
Great stuff here, VERY EXCITING developments as always!! Personally, I upgraded my Motobecane fatbike from Luna Hotrod controller BBSHD to a DM01 (Same 56V battery for both) early in the summer of 2024, and I couldn't be more pleased! The torque sensing is almost like a combination of the feel from my Specialized Turbo Levo and a bit of the better "urgency" upon pedal pressure that I like from our Giant e-bikes. It's simply phenomenal to me -- And thank you for the heads up in this video NOT TO update the firmware!
You are welcome. Glad you are getting on well with your DM01
@@HighVoltageKits Thank you! I can't wait to see what comes about with the M635, also. Especially with your controller in the mix. But for me the DM01 is just "WOW!" Nearly perfect.
tptrsn, thanks for letting us know how pleased you are with the DM01 torque sensing motor as alternative to the BBSHD that I ride and love. Great to know. I hope you share the reliability of the DM01 over time with this channel. All the best.
@@lukewalker1051 If I have anything useful to add I certainly will! Unfortunately, I don't ride a lot any more, but if I do ride, it will probably be my current DM-01 equipped bike, or maybe a full suspension bike with a DM-01 on it if I happen across just the right bike that is asking for a motor. Lol
Happy New Year!
Thanks! Same for you also.
So, I'm confused. Is the torque sensing M635 uncancelled now? Does it require a proprietary battery?
It would seem that is correct and you can use any battery. I’ll have more news in the new year.
Probably a pariah in this esteemed congregation, but I have no need or want for extreme power, I just want a small, efficient, reliable, repairable motor that will readily offer 700 watts at a pinch and will get me to and from work every day... The DM02 has that kind of promise but man, what a journey
Everyone is welcome here. Appreciate your contribution very much. Especially on the TOSEVEN channels
Focus on the DM01
The 02 is winning so far but I’ll do lots on the DM01 for sure.
I've been using an ESC controller with the DM01 for quite some time now and it works wonderfully as an electric moped with throttle based pedal assist, except native cadence based PAS doesn't work. Not worried about the torque sensing for now. Hopefully I'll figure it out soon. I recently reinstalled the stock controller with the updated firmware before I knew of the changes and they really did manage to sabotage this motor. Bad business move and it seems to run worse than it did before the firmware update.. Once I figure out cadence based Pas in VESC, I'll be set. I'd be interested in buying one of those black gears for sure.
Sounds good! Sorry you updated the motor before you saw the warnings. Hopefully TOSEVEN will see some sense and come up with a solution that is the best of both worlds. Good luck with the cadence based PAS. There are two colored wires for the cadence signal and the white wire is the torque signal.
@@HighVoltageKits Quick questions for you.
1. Without the torque wire in the equation, does the sensor essentially become a "quadrature" PAS? This is the only type of sensor VESC natively supports without writing a script.
2. Will you have some printed 01/02 controller covers available for sell any time soon?>
3. What's the projected ETA for the peek gear?
Yes to all. Shoot me a pm on discord for a controller cover. Same as the bbshd cost. PEEK gear enquires to Greg@highvoltagekits.com
DM02 first please. Thanks for the firmware news, won't be changing mine
It’s the most popular choice so far
Yes, a huge shout out to Daggs
1000% Cheers
What do you mean about the end of bbshd?
Should i look for other mid drive?
Buying bbshd uart is not worth it today? Is that what you mean sir?
Is there no chance you all put out a cadence sensor based hv kit for the DM01 like the bbshd, then maybe upgrade to a TS HV kit later when it's figured out? Im sure if you make a handful people will buy them, me being the first 😂
I’ll have a chat with Greg. Maybe we can do a one off. I had not considered the upgrade path.
@@HighVoltageKits Thanks! I got into the ebike business late and so missed out on the bbshd wave, but when I read about torque sensing and the possibility of an hv kit, I dropped the cash on a dm01. I'd imagine I'm not the only one that bought a dm01 with the intention to upgrade it one day, and even without torque sensing it should feel mostly (or even much better based on the reduction ratio) like an upgraded bbshd. Thank you for your consideration!
@@_Drae2210It's possible you're right, but after having a decently running BBSHD bike and other nice torque sensor based motors, I wouldn't do away with the torque sensor on my DM-01 under any circumstances I can imagine.
@@tptrsnhow are you finding the dm01 compared to bbshd?
I'm guessing that the controller on the M635 could just be swapped out for the previous generation one?
Unsure on that one but we do have a kit on the way.
@@HighVoltageKits I saw a Johnny Nerdout vid with the new BBS02 Canbus one and the controller connections look identical to the uART one so that is a good sign. BBSHD will hopefully be the same.
@@Hybrid600 So effectively you are saying in the context of BBSHD, that a stock controller can revert the BBSHD back to non-CANBUS running status? That would be good news.
The bbshd is a bit different but with some effort the old controller can replace the new one with the non torque sensing m625. I’m not sure on the torque sensor version yet.
@@lukewalker1051 correct. The other option would be to just get rid of the Bafang controller altogether and put an external one on to give it some real performance.
Separate comment for the poll about which ToSeven motor for you to experiment on first: Despite loving my DM01 so much, I think I vote for the DM02 to be your focus first. IIRC, you already had the DM02 running more power than my DM01 does, so I think it would be more fun to see just how far you can push that lighter, less expensive motor... Then eventually, it would be fun to see what you can do with a DM01 in full dirtbike mode too, but for now I vote DM02.
Appreciate the vote. Cheers
@@HighVoltageKits My pleasure, thank you for all of your efforts on all of these fronts. :)
Dm02
DM02
2:1 as of now!
100% dm01, i won't take anything under 1000w.
Hey Mike. It looks like the DM02 will be first by popular choice but I will for sure get to the DM01 as soon as possible. I might wait till late Feb so the roads are a bit better before I swap it out though.
What happened with your lesson learnt? Run in with the law?
Nothing like that. Just I want it to last longer this time so I think it will if I don’t run it unrestricted.
You seem to be wondering a whole lot about "why" companies like Bafang and TwoSeven make changes to things that are un-helpful to the DIY community.
It's simple - follow the money. They are a company, first and foremost. The DIY community is so microscopically small. Too small to support a small manufacturing run even.
"Locking down the firmware" and 're-aligning' development and production of certain motor series is a financial decision. Sure they might lose several thousand (yes, only a few or several thousand) by cutting off the DIY'ers, but stand to gain MILLIONS if they can convince some other mainstream builder/manufacturer to adopt their systems - Many of which play it safe with restricted settings, proprietary bus signalling, and redesigns.
First rule of making money - sell to rich people (other companies and corporations, rather than the poor (the microscopic DIY community of 'average joes'.
the DIY community are more likely to be enthusiastic about the ability to change setups in the firmware, so why not leave it as it was - fully configurable and state that changes the user makes will invalidate a guarantee.?
Therefore if anyone did wreck their motor trying things that shouldn't be done they can sell another motor to the customer who may then learn their lesson.
And you seem to believe John doesn't understand the industry and will hazard a guess and say he knows a lot more about it than you. You don't know Bafang's business model of ratio of DYI sales to bike manufacturers.
Two other reasons Bafang does it is to precluding turning up the amps on their stock motors which makes their motors more fragile and lastly they do it foremost for CANBUS battery pairing which has already been worked around with the M635. Of course their decisions are revenue based, that's a given.
I have quite a bit of insider information on TOSEVEN having worked pretty closely with their Western representative. But this took us all by surprise.
DM02
Cheers