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I loved the video however I have one argument. You said being a hypocrite is wrong but I think it's impossible to not be one. If you sit down and question yourself you will eventually find questions your 50/50 or unable to answer because it would be easier not to. My argument is it's impossible in life to not be a hypocrite as it's a morally gray area rather than a one sided bad area especially when it comes to positions in power.
Doctor Maruki truly stands out from all the previous persona antagonists, he is neither a god, a murderer or a mentally unstable teenager, he is a normal man that only wants people to not suffer
And you know what's even more crazy about when he was doing his research? He got off easy, meanwhile Futaba's mom who was doing the same thing got assassinated for it.
Lmao I was gonna say about "mentally unstable teenager"; Futaba had a Palace whose distortions were borne of grief & self-loathing for the mother she felt responsible for losing. When it comes to "grief-distorted Palace Rulers with a connection to cognitive psience (stolen by Shido) and a Lovecraftian Persona", Maruki can have some parallels to Futaba in that regard......... after the fistfight he very much was on the route to suicide before Joker saved him, comparable to how Futaba's guilt & self-isolation almost drove her to the same. I kinda like how their changes of heart accomplished a healthier emotional outlook for both of them; sure Maruki was definitely going to cause more damage than Futaba but seeing him happy in the end was a relief on its own for me😅
@@LunaP1 Wakaba was the biggest threat to Shido, so he had to get rid of her asap. Maruki probably wasn't even on his radar (since he wasn't researching cognitive psience for the government).
I'm still so sad about his passing. I met him at a convention in 2021 and he was so nice, taking the time to chat with me about Fire Emblem and Persona, and he signed my shirt of his Fire Emblem Three Houses character Ferdinand Von Aegir. His voice work was truly amazing, he was so passionate in all of his roles. Rest in peace
Maruki is one of the best examples of a dark messiah: A character who believes that the happiness of humanity is their responsibility and will even do „questionable“ actions to archive it. This description fits Maruki well. He isn‘t a bad person, he just wants to help the world but will go to the extremes to achieve it.
What I really love is that he genuinely has good intentions and there are tangibly good results... to an extent. But it is still wrong, and I think even deep down he knows it too. What a fantastic going up to face him it was with "I believe" playing in the background.
@@1Sir-McKnightThe fact he practically asks you to have a quick punching match with him helps show he knows. It's less Shido wanting to kill and pummel Joker with his own hands and more... Yu and Yosuke by the river in Yosuke's social link. He knows he's done something stupid, but knows part of him doesn't want to admit it.
Speaking as a counsellor, Maruki's journey into villainy was well portrayed even early in the game in his flaws as a counsellor. Maruki allows his own trauma, his own desires, his own feelings to command the space with his clients. He is always quick to reassure and provide relief, wanting to remove pain, where a counsellor should join the client in their pain to empower them to find sense in it. He is not able to take the truly empathic stance of seeing the pain of another and feeling it as theirs, because he internalises their pain as his own. He's clearly trying but he has not done the work on himself. So when someone who cannot tolerate pain in their clients gains absolute power what do you expect? From a counsellor's perspective, Maruki is one of my favourite depictions of a counsellor in media, because he demonstrates so well the damage one can do even while truly trying to help.
People say that Maruki was good and had good intentions, and i try to avoid good and evil as labels as they simplify too much. For me, both Maruki and the Phantom Thieves are manipulators, through his powers of control/stealing hearts respectively. The difference comes in scale and intention. Maruki manipulates the world because he cannot bear the pain that comes with living, ultimately a selfish intention. The Thieves are more selective, picking individuals, and the intention is to liberate (the exception being Sae which is the most questionable action in my opinion as this was mostly for self-preservation, and Futaba where their actions were explicitly invited). I think the Thieves' actions are a bit morally grey, but certainly understandable. Maruki though, is significantly darker from this perspective.
Minor thing, Maruki isn't a villain, but an antagonist. I think I also heard that how he acts as a counselor is how Japanese counselors act, which is noticeably different from American counselors. As for the Thieves and Maruki's actions, Maruki does manipulate the world, but it's mostly for the happiness of everyone. And the PT's aren't exactly "manipulative", but more getting someone to accept the weight of what they've done. There is some morally grey stuff in there, both both are largely for the benefit of others. There's also the fact that Maruki's goals were never intended to be "evil" or even "wrong". Neither accepting or rejecting his proposal is the true "correct" choice; it all depends on your own morality.
@@Scanny524 The Phantom Thieves never stole Sae's heart, nor did they ever intend to. All of that was just to set a trap for Akechi and save Joker's life.
There's a scene shortly after Joker and 'Kasumi's' first visit to the palace where they are both talking with Maruki (Oct. 11th) and Kasumi talks about the breakthrough she had by "standing up to her problems" and, for a brief moment, Maruki looks visibly dejected as he looks away. Like a part of him is annoyed that she's taking a different approach than his 'actualization'. One of those things I only noticed on the 2nd playthrough.
I read elsewhere that Maruki was never really said to be an actual therapist, just a researcher. That instead of hiring a much more expensive therapist, they hired a researcher with a Psych degree for a lot cheaper, reinforcing how crappy the school is. If that's the case, he may just lack the proper training to keep himself out of those therapy sessions. That's a learned trait.
Something that highlights Sumire's importance to the story and Maruki, I think, is that she essentially acts as a test case for each side to prove their argument. For the majority of the game, she is solidly in Camp Maruki, abandoning her identity as Sumire to act as Kasumi. This initially proves Maruki's point, as she was trapped in despair with no hope of recovery or completing the dream she shared with her sister. However, as you progress her confidant, it's shown that that happiness is short-term and stagnant. Sumire can pretend to be Kasumi, but she can't truly replicate her sister's performance, and thus can't fulfill their dream as she is. It's only once Joker helps her face her grief and accept herself as Sumire that she begins to truly move forward. It took a lot of short-term pain, but she converted that pain into developing her gymnastics abilities and making true progress with her and her sister's dream. Maruki has a compassionate goal, but only seeks short-term relief from tragedy that requires long-term healing. Under his rule, no one can truly grow like Sumire and the Phantom Thieves were able to. The Phantom Thieves may not be able to erase the trauma people suffer, but they can at least provide a chance for those victims to pick themselves back up and continue on under their own strength. Sumire was the direct evidence for this.
Hell, it’s shown that personal demons can be the most threatening as the Phantom thieves would have died in futaba’s palace without her confronting the truth herself.
Its funny because Strikers deals with that same issue with Akira saying he will help those who never got a chance to be saved yet he used a little girl to capture the phantom theives and fight against her father, not to mention the other prison wardens being forced to stay in their trauma because of emma and him, i wont even get into the one that made emma she got off way too easy compared to the akira
And this is the main reason why Sumire’s my favorite Persona 5 character-she’s so damn good. Also, she acknowledges Maruki’s actions did provide a short term bandage (she implies that she thinks she would’ve attempted to kill herself if she was still aware she was Sumire), but not the proper recovery she needed, and only finally started to move on with the help of the Phantom Thieves. I love Sumire. Best Royal Trio member imo.
A line that I will always remember is from Morgana. He says that he acknowledges that many people would benefit from a world like this and sees where he's coming from even though he disagrees.
I also love how Maruki basically does the same. He says something like "the truth is, it is better for people to tackle their problems themselves. But reality doesn't always make that so feasible!"
Interestingly, accepting Maruki's deal isn't even a "bad ending". Contrary to popular belief, the devs don't consider accepting or rejecting him to be good or bad. They had it so both endings are the good ending.
@@SaiyanGamer95I think thats the devs leaving his game open for every interpretation and not being judgmental. The game its pretty clear which one its the good one: the one where Sumire and Akechi are not unnervingly happy meat-puppets, specially after being specific about upholding their will. The one were a "gentle madman" (literally the name of one the soundtracks for Maruki) dont tamper with the brains of everyone.
@@albertocruzado2899 Only reason Akechi came back from the dead, is because that was Joker's impossible wish. Like Futaba's impossible wish was to have Wakaba alive. When it makes it so sad Akechi is willing to undo his revival, for the greater good of mankind. As Maruki revealed himself how Akechi is back from the dead. Akechi may be insane, but he has some good morals. If sacrificing his existence is the price to pay for mankind to not be dictated by Maruki's false reality, he is willing to pay that price. Happiness should not be given, but rather earned. Without overcoming pain by one's own power, one cannot find true happiness. And sometimes, one needs to make sacrifices, to save those one loves from the pain. I suffer from emotional pain every day from my regrets from my past. Do I let that overpower me? No. I move on, keep living, despite constantly bearing that pain each day.
I think Maruku's Phase 2 being so much easier to fight helps emphasize how hypocritical he is as he mounts a stronger offense, only for it to fade due to how much he refuses to fight them
And by the time Adam Cadmon takes control of the situation, it was too late since they’ve already taken a beating and his first decision is to go so far on offense he’s actively lowering his defense
I feel that the hypocrisy around Rumi is that he probably felt he had to leave her; that him being there might run the risk of her reawakening her buried memories and going into a fugue state again. He convinces himself that relapsing will always happen, and he projects that onto Sumire. He's convinced that she will fall back into the same pitfalls she did the last time because otherwise he could've found a way to help Rumi recover while still being with her. Like you pointed out, his 'sacrifice' of his love is a key part of his messiah complex. I see it as he's convinced he's in the right because he suffered so much, and then the Metaverse handed him all that power like a god on high.
Thats all true. My only question with the true ending though, is what happened to Rumi? I assume everything Maruki did with his power was changed back to how it was, including Rumi (there isnt any evidence to suggest otherwise), so with his new perspective, does he still go and see her in hopes she’ll wake up? does she get better? I wish that was explained, maybe someone can ask one of the devs, or there’s a good enough theory to explain what happened. Either way, feels like a big question to me. Personally, I think he did go to see her again, time passed and she woke up, and he helped her heal. Despite all he’s done, I think he and Rumi deserve a happy ending, so thats my headcanon.
@@F1areon weirdly enough, it might be closer than that; a Treasure's form in the real world basically represents the _root cause_ of a Palace Ruler's distorted perception of the world. In that case, Maruki's Treasure being a newspaper clipping _about_ the murder of Rumi's parents means it's the origin of his entire Palace to begin with -- he'd probably started forming a Palace immediately after it happened, since it's his emotional devastation over Rumi's condition that motivated the accidental mindwipe in the first place. So ideally I'd like to think that with 1) Maruki's Palace gone, 2) the Metaverse gone, and 3) Maruki's cognitive powers gone, that Rumi would eventually remember him like all the other things that reverted back to reality. Thematically it could go either way; it might be better for Maruki to emotionally move on and stop grieving their erased past together, **OR** potentially reconnect with the caring soul he pushed away (isolating himself from any support). I mean, amnesiac-Rumi was _surprisingly_ interested in getting to know the random stranger who "mistook her room for someone else's", so I could easily see a chance meeting with a recovered-Rumi (idk she needed a taxi ride or smth) going well for both of them
@@leoultimaupgraded9914 I also agree he deserves happiness, especially everything that he went through. I headcanon that he's driving people around as a taxi driver in Tokyo, and randomly gets Rumi as a passanger. Maruki recognizes her but Rumi doesn't. They talk and Rumi shows some sign of remembering him (you remind me of someone...). In the end Rumi asks for Maruki's phone number since she enjoyed their conversation. Maruki stares at the new number saved and mutters to himself "I guess fate has a way...."
Billy Billy Billy, can't you see the legacy you left behind? Rest in peace Also, Billy played villains so well It's a shame he passed on so suddenly 😔 Maruki was a favorite of mine alongside a couple other roles of his
Maruki quickly became one of my favorite Persona characters in the entire series, moreso than my other favorite character, Adachi. RIP, Billy Kametz, you knocked this role outta the park.
In fact, you could say that Adachi and Yoshikage Kira are similar in a way that he's some nobody blending in with the crowd, along with his "Persona," no pun intended, of being a hapless goofball, comic relief detective who ends up accidentally leaking confidential information about the murders in Inaba, leading the investigation team into who their next victim will be.
Just finished Persona 5 Royal. I thought Maruki is a great antagonist. Partially because his offer is very tempting. It is such an ideal world, and his intentions are good for it. But besides just struggle, Maurki's plan removes choice. Your perfect life is what he thinks is best for you, to the point of you getting mind wiped and rewritten to believe its for your best. But love his dungeon design, great boss fight, and just a great conclusion to an already great story. Worth nothing, I think his plan would fall apart eventually, as the expanding people could cause his perfect reality to fall. Trying to accommodate the rest of the world, I think would eventually stretch his mind too much, not even accounting for how exactly new children would complicate things. If you look around the world, you can see NPC's collapse from partying too much, talking about exhaustion from working too much, but they can't stop just because they are so happy doing it. I really like if you look, you can already see cracks starting to form in his perfect world. But I know its a rant all this, I really loved this game. RIP Billy kametz. You were a great voice actor and you gave a fantastic performance as Maruki
I think it would’ve been like the Matrix. Haven’t actually completed third semester yet, still going through it for a second time, still enjoyable even with IZUNAGINOOKAMIPICARO and ALL WILL BE REVEALED shouting from Joker. Just wasted another 100 hours into a second play through and I’m at Shido palace
It might interest you to know that technically speaking, there is no correct choice; both accepting and rejecting are equally valid. The devs themselves don't consider rejecting his proposal to be the good ending, nor is accepting his world the "bad ending". They're both the "True Endings".
@@SaiyanGamer95 I haven’t yet seen the video, but I feel kinda bad for Kasumi, as her storyline gets massively dropped after like first hour or so (even before Kamashida is getting taken down). She is quite interesting character, but her personality isn’t exactly revealed until MUCH later in the story. Meanwhile Maruki’s character is really well-developed and you begin to sort of sympathise with the character. Kinda like Senator Armstrong, but his character actually gets developed throughout the game
@@justiceplay3518 Kasumi gets expanded upon a bit later when she first awakens to her Persona on October 3rd, but she opts to not join the Phantom Thieves. You do also get some scenes with her in Akechi's Confidant. What I find disappointing is how much pre-released hyped her up. Not only did she get special attention, but they mentioned she dislikes the Phantom Thieves because she believes people should solve their own problems. But when she learns Joker is the leader of the Phantom Thieves, she doesn't join because she disagrees with them, but because she has other stuff going on. And, you know, she's only playable in the final dungeon, so you don't get much time to use her.
@@SaiyanGamer95 yeah, I haven’t seen much of pre-release hype around her, so I am still kinda disappointed that after October 3rd there’s so small amount of interaction with her (you could still go on the hangouts with her, but since before third semester you can get only rank 5 in her social link, it doesn’t really make a lot of sense. Plus on first play-through you can’t really get a lot of confidants done since you need to also upgrade your skills, plus you dunno what confidant abilities actually do.
I saw a comment on a video a while back that basically made the argument that Maruki is the perfect Law alignment representative, and I genuinely couldn't agree more. The philosophical questions he raises like what is the purpose of suffering are scarcely discussed in the world we live in, and if it weren't for my niche religious beliefs (and you know, the lack of cognitive psience in the real world) I'd wholeheartedly champion Maruki's cause to the best of my ability. And then there's the scene after the slugfest with joker that just broke me. The way Maruki simply wants to give in to his despair after losing everything makes him feel so real as a character, and Billy Kametz's performance from the scream to "oh come on, I said I'm done" made it hit that much harder. 10000/10 character, and God bless Billy Kametz's soul
He's kind of a different form of Batman. Someone fueled by darkness to pursue a truly just crusade that they know is pointless, and they entirely plan on meeting their end in the line of duty. And in the process, they completely miss the lasting change they'd be able to enact with a little patience.
as someone that suffers from a condition that cant be cured and can leave me paralyzed for the rest of my life.. not to mention abuse from parents and supposed friends (one that SA'D me and forced me to remain friends with them by threatning me with their family's shady connections.) Maruki's character and goal was something that brought me to tears and made me agree with his character's goals... I wouldnt want anyone else to suffer like that
me too. I know that a lot of people in my family have suffered. I struggle to find reasons to go on every single day. If my loved ones died, I personally wouldn’t see that as “growth.” What would we gain from that?
@@clapped-cheeks Exactly! I think he should have tried to see it from more than just the main charas side? And I really hope that things get better for you... a lot of people have probably already said it you; But you are so strong for the fact that you KEEP going! T_T Know that at least one random person on the internet is gonna be cheering for you and hoping you are doing ok.
You need happiness, and you need pain. A world in which there is no pain at all would be completely static and no real long-term happiness (a hell in my personal opinion). Obviously, a world were pain and suffering in maximum would be hell. Pain and failure Is abousotely necessary for long-term happiness and personal growth. Tragedy Is different than normal pain however, and unless you have good support around you, it can cause you harm in personal growth. But if you do have good support, i genuinely believe there will be positive personal growth given enough time
I agree and I think it's pretty easy for anyone who has a less fortunate time in this world to agree with Maruki's goals. Marukis dream would require us to sacrifice our free will and for most people who have suffered hardships that are to much or left a major impact on our lives this is a relatively easy choice and most would take his deal. The people who will suffer the most from this deal and lack of free will is the people who are already privileged and have had the possibility to bounce back from hardships. This isn't possible for many. I read in another video a few year ago this (paraphrasing). "Imagine a mother who loves her family more than anything in the world. She and her family went out on an outing was in a car accident and everyone in her family dies from it while the mother was left alive but horribly disabled and disfigured. This is a hardship that's to much for her to bear and she will never recover and will forever be depressed and will die alone. How could you ever say that she shouldn't accept Maruki's deal and how if you were given the choice, how would ever be able to morally justify letting this mother, and so many more who are in similar hardships, suffer so greatly for your own free will?"
@@ggexgaming6020 The problem is that the majority of the worlds population lives in "maximum pain and suffering" where a single screw up will most likely mean death through one way or another. That's how capitalism operates currently. The wealthy oppress the poor (cacao slave farmers, child cobalt miner, etc) for their own benefit and at the expense of the poor. Safety equipment isn't provided or safety regulation isn't followed for many to cut corners and make more money. Maruki's deal will only ever be a bad thing for the already privileged that is afforded the support and help necessary to recover from these hardships
So the whole 'eternity of sleep for Joker' actually makes sense for Maruki to do. From the very beginning, as their leader, Joker has had to be the one who makes the tough decisions for everyone. He had to be the active person who steps up and does the job before everyone else follows after him, which was practically TORTURE for him because the first time he ever made the decision to step into a major situation, he got screwed over because of Shido, so he has trauma from the thought of needing to act. Now, after this entire journey of seeing adults abuse their power, to taking down a freaking God, it's not rocket science to say that Joker needs a fucking break. And what does he get instead? The knowledge that the counselor he opened up to is warping the reality they JUST fought to save, but into a totally blissful world where everyone gets what they want and are happy. And once again, people are pushing him around to MAKE A DECISION FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD. He knows that the world Maruki is making isn't right, because it's just another form of imprisonment, but imagine going outside and seeing the friends you've made over the course of this journey, who've struggled and grieved, completely and totally happy. And you're the one who has to burst that bubble. Bring back the reality full of pain and suffering, or let everyone live in a false reality, but happy. That's a burden that would break even a normal person, imagine loading that onto someone who has trauma from the choice they made. THAT'S why Maruki puts Joker to sleep if we miss the deadline. We prove that we're PARALYZED by the choice. We can't take away our friends' happiness but we also can't bear to just watch on and smile in this false reality while being fully aware that it's false, because Maruki refuses to force us into this reality and essentially puppet us around. So, the only way out is just blissful unconsciousness, where we won't ever have to think or dwell on the decision. It's a completely understandable choice of mercy for a normal person to spare Joker from pain. It's like euthanizing your pet because you understand that it would just be painful for them to continue living.
Maruki is the kind of villain that'll make you question your own morality. Are you in the right place for trying to stop this man from achieving his goal? Since it isn't at all villainous and can even go so far as to benefit the greater good... despite it being built on nothing but hopeful delusions. I f**king love Maruki, and I really hope we get more villains like him.
So here is my head canon. The reason why Joker became aware of the altered reality is that Maruki made him aware to fulfill his real subconscious goal, that even he wasn’t aware of. What Maruki really wanted all along was someone to talk to that understood him. That’s why to progress in his palace you must learn about his circumstances and pain. Maruki is a person that, when in pain, will distract himself by trying to solve everyone else’s problems rather than sorting out his own baggage. So when he got the powers of a god, that allowed him to do basically whatever and fulfill his every desire, he subconsciously made someone that could understand him and help him deal with reality. Since he was already aware of how the Phantom Thief’s operate and was close to Joker in the first place, it makes sense that he would be made aware of the altered world and try to stop him. In short the third semester is effectively Marukis subconsciousness and his active consciousness fighting for what he really wants. His active consciousness is trying to save the world as a distraction from his subconscious desire to let out his issues to someone. That’s why stealing his treasure, which is a persons warped desires, is effectively allowing him to get his shit together
It's a shame we had to beat him for him to mellow out. With the Phantom Thieve's collective conscience and Maruki's intelligence, they probably could have fixed their world while still allowing free choice. But Maruki was too far gone...
Maruki is by far one of my favorite Persona antagonists, he's a genuinely good man who is always giving out his helping hand to anyone who will willingly take it and he never forces anyone to. It's what makes him so good because he's not in it for the power or anything he's just trying to help people because they've been hurt, but his way doesn't truly help, it's just a pretty lie to cover up the pain and trauma that are still there. It's why his boss fight and everything about him make me tear up because he's just a deeply hurt man that never got over his pain all while trying to help others with theirs. The moment he finally lets it all out is so heartbreaking to me but so satisfying in the end. Billy had so many good characters he got to play, Maruki, Josuke and Ferdinand from FE 3 Houses are my all time favorites. He will be deeply missed but his legacy will never be forgotten🤍
One detail i loved in P5R was that after Ann awakens her Persona; and leaves the palace, there's a blink-and-you-miss-it appearance of Maruki prior to his actual debut appearance much akin to how Haru and Makoto can be found in the h Shujin hallways and Library.
I agree that Maruki is a villain in the story but I also like how, as you said, he is someone who has good intentions but the actions he does aren't good. I only looked at a few scenes from P5 and have listen to people like you explain the story, and I always believed one of the big factors that prove his perfect world was flaw is the fact that Sumire is now Kasumi to everyone having her pretend to be her sister forever basically erasing the existence of a person.
Takuto Maruki is incredible. His motives are just, wanting everyone to just, have everything they want and be happy, create a perfect world without strife. But the ends don't justify the means. The whole time leading up to the decision, I was constantly asking myself, "Do I really WANT to stop him? Do I WANT to break this world of happy endings? Sure, it's uncanny, and this means their struggles were pointless, but everyone is HAPPY. Is freedom worth denying everyone what they desired?", questioning if I realy wanted to fight this Gentle Madman. Until finally, I decided, yes, not only will I fight, but I SHOULD fight, because the struggle makes success all the sweeter. His words are sweet, but you have to Keep Your Faith in your reasons to fight. Maruki is a fun juxtaposition of Yaldabaoth because, while Yaldabaoth wanted to strip humanity of their wayward desires, Maruki wanted to fulfill those desires. Yet, at the end, they had the same goal: The pacification of humanity. To strip them of their individuality and leave them another shadow amongst the masses. To leave them in a state where they were happy to live under a ruler, to have someone else do all the thinking for them. To blur the line between The Ideal And The Real Yaldabaoth attempted to do it by force, ripping the desires from humanity and eradicating the phantom thieves from existence. Maruki wanted to do it diplomatically, by granting those same desires and dissolving the phantom thieves due to a lack of need. Maruki is my absolute favorite villain I've seen in anything, and, frankly, probably the best part of Persona 5 Royal. He may be the god of control, and wield Azathoth, the Blind Idiot God, and yet, even in his utopia, the Councillor Of Sorrow still weeps
Ah yes Sosuke Aizen.🗿 Not going to lie, I could have got swept up in his plans. He had the power to CREATE WORLDS people's ideal world and free them their pain. It's not inherently evil at all it's just really kind heart that wanted to get rid of the pain in the world good. Like what Obito tried to do it with the Infinite Tsukoyomi. But like a Naruto you got to take the suffering and sorrow, and move on to keep growing. Because if you just give it a shot, dreams can become reality to some extent. An antagonist yes, but villain no. Maruki is a misplaced hero👍😎
@@Mangakamen Villains are bad people, even though they can believe to be doing right. Maruki isn't. He's not insane, he's not twisted. Not all antagonist are villains. Maruki is an example. L from Death Note is an antagonist, but that doesn't make him a villain. Being an antagonist depends on the perspective of the story, being a villain depends on the character's morality and mentality.
You keep saying this but Maruki already decided that he knew what was best for Kasumi even though she said she didn't want that, the same with the other Phantom Thieves and he was willing to ignore that. Sounds pretty villainous... Why are you ignoring that?
I would say the term Villain is relative and depends on how you define it. I don’t think there’s a right answer to whether Maruki is a villain or not and that it was targeted to being more on the philosophical side. This brings up the question of whether you believe intent or action is more important in defining a villain.
Oziach collab was a great touch , amazing choices aside I thank billy for voices this character because after a long time of watching anime & playing games . Iv never been been able to relate yet see the contradiction in one’s ideology still I found Maruki . There’s many villains/bosses that can make u question ur morals , desires and ideals but maruki was I’d say the biggest reason why I’ll never stop recommending this game as a jump off rpg for others . Not many games will ask u the question “ suffering , yes it’s necessary for one to grow but can u say honestly u would welcome it or reject the form it takes “ . No one knows the trails that will give ur personality & identity form but that’s what makes us , Us and maruki asked the question “wat if u get rewarded without suffering “ . Most would jump for that and some can see the monkey foot deal at ply . Thanks for the video as usually kamen , I love this game & character very much and may billy rest in peace his memory will be remembered forever in our phantom hearts ❤️ & Persona History 📚.
Honestly...? I may have accepted the world he created. Some people just can't find happiness now matter how hard they try. The least they deserve is a daydream to find comfort in
Maruki is easily my favorite villain of this archetype and my 3rd favorite in general. The thing that really sells him is the time you spend just hanging out with him in the main game on top of his motivations. It's a lot more personal for him. Of course, there're all his contradictions and hypocrisy that make it even better. Despite the messed up stuff he does, though, I'd say he still has a much better track record than most villains of the archetype. He hasn't killed anyone, destroyed anything, or waged war on the world. Of course, I disagree with him, but I do occasionally wonder what a more constrained version of that world would be like. Someone who's fully self aware of what they're doing basically only goes after all the scum bags and major world problems. So basically the Phantom Thieves on a global scale and without their restrictions I guess.
Really glad to see a Maruki video. Maybe we could get videos for the other Persona villains? I find a lot of Persona villains are very misunderstood by the fandom (Akechi) or generally overlooked (Kandori and Joker) so I'd like to see your take on them
The part about stagnation, reminds me of the how the multiverse in Fate works, in Fate, whenever a world reaches peace and subsequently stagnation, it ends up being pruned, that is to say erased, because it cannot grow, it cannot change, only a world with strife can evolve and avoid stagnation, and these worlds are shown to in fact be miserable, for in the 2nd chapter we visit 7 of these in the form of the lostbelts
My friend. This is the first video I’ve watched from you and I have to say it’s absolutely incredible. I was a massive fan of P5R and it’s new content on release, but was always confident in my opinion of Maruki. Never did I expect to have to sit and think on my initial views so much until this video - the points and arguments are so well crafted and voiced, and the connections/similarities to Yaldabaoth were some serious food for thought on top of everything else. Well deserved sub, keep doing what you’re doing ✨
How easy it is to praise strength in individualism... And yet, not everyone in the world is made of that same stronger stuff. Not everyone has the strength or luxury to stand tall on their own, or the friends and connections to do it hand in hand with others. Its easy to believe it can be done, when that is the narrative the story pushes, and yet, its one upheld by protagonists with supernatural powers. The justice they carry out can only be done because they have those strengths and luxuries, but in the real world most don't. In some places, to rebel means nothing more than to die for nothing, for something that may never be held for generations to come. To leave those sorrows and troubles unaddressed when one has the power to help, that I think is the real evil. The strength the thieves champion isn't something that heights them, its something they have to draw up or be destroyed, but why then permit a world where being destroyed for being insufficient is something one must worry about to exist?
I'm glad someone else here is talking about this point. They might as well be telling every person in the world to "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps!" While they themselves needed magical powers to even fix their problems, without which they would of all suffered terrible fates. Even if Maruki's world wasn't perfect for everyone, it's still a better one and could be changed to be even better for everyone in the future. just like how we and they try to make our own world a better one.
It's for this reason that the "true" ending seems so fucking bleak to me. Yeah, it's good for the main cast, and I get why they'd disagree with Maruki, but to forever destroy the power that could easily fix all major systemic problems in the world _for eternity_ seems abhorrent to me.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you. This is one of the major reasons why I side with Maruki and have become disillusioned with P5R’s story. The game insists that one can better themselves by overcoming pain and struggles, but it doesn’t have a sufficient answer to a question I frequently ask: *“What if you can’t?”* There are millions in this world who will never be free of their pain no matter how much willpower they have, and I think those folks should be prioritized. Because, if we don’t look out for the most unfortunate and miserable of us, then what kind of hellish world are we building? Definitely not one I’d want to live in, that’s for sure.
@alistairmarston9405 By the same token, there will be thousands that will be forced to give up their dreams because Maruki thought that their dream was too hard to achieve, thus forcing them to be neutered mentally. Don't those people deserve a chance to try for their dreams if they are willing to work for it.
@@bcmcbride518dreams don't matter, happiness is what matters. That's what people actually seek when they have and achieve dreams anyway. People are wired differently without having a choice in the first place, things that gives happiness to some people may not do the same to others, so changing what people feel happy with is not an issue
maruki is what personally pushed persona 5 royal as one of my favorite games of all time and i really can't stress enough how much of that was thanks to billy kametz' phenomenal performance. RIP you wonderful voice actor
There is a key point brought up throughout the entirety of this story arc: the role of pain and how much it stands to benefit us. Shared pain, shared trauma, this was a fold which allowed the party to come together in the first place. Everyone found a bond through supporting each other through their shared experiences. Removing this pain has massive repercussions on the reality Maruki wishes to create, as seen in the observation week, trying to remind each of Ren's friends how they all met gave way to the obvious cracks which allowed them to break through Maruki's reality. This third semester really hit me as someone who has avoided rejection from others; pre therapy me would have probably wanted Maruki to take this pain away. Going through the rest of the third semester to me looked at the role pain plays, and it predictably was a little tough to swallow. But that's okay. That was the beauty of the third semester: it showed while life is pretty hard, there are some good things about it which make it worth living.
Maruki is kinda the perfect final villain for P5, idk if it was something that was said in the game specifically but I remember a question that came up while going through his palace which was if Maruki is right about controlling the world then was fighting Yaldaboth a mistake. That line or reasoning stuck in my head the entire time I was fighting him for the first time.
Great video Kamen. Maruki was a great addition to the game for all the reasons you said. Even if I kind of had a feeling he was going to be an antagonist by the end I'm glad they actually made it a challenge of ideals and not just make him evil for the sake of evil.
This third semester arc really hammered home how Persona is part of SMT. Aside from the early endings, I like how modern persona doesn't shame you for the choices you make and makes good arguments for the "bad endings". It also adds some excellent theory fuel for how the P3 and P4 casts have been impacted by maruki
10:05 Hey thats me! Great video btw Kamen, you made a lot of good points against the whole 'Villain vs Antagonist' thing. While i still hold my viewpoint of Maruki, I respect your opinion
I just want to comment this about the title and will come back to my comment after finishing the video. I never ever considered Maruki a villain, but Persona's Greatest Antagonist. The other Palace rulers are Villains without a doubt. Maruki was just trying to make a better world for everyone, misguided as it may have been, but not with evil intent.
I decently appreciate how Maruki is the few cases of sympathetic Villain that feels believable that adds so much to the theme. Despite the range of such power, he was personally short sighted to an extent. (Or at least that's my interpretation at least, in case I missed the point)
musician here, who paid a lot of attention to the music to this game (for obvious reasons, absolute bangers) and regarding the music portion of this video, the use of lyrical callbacks for the thieves really helps set in stone that the thieves do indeed "fully believe" in not just the future, but the outlook on things they have fought for, its like one final message to us
I think what's most compelling to me is knowing the earlier Persona games, I don't think he has a normal Persona--if one at all. I think he contacted a real eldritch creature like Nyarly. His Persona doesn't use the usual awakening phrasings, implies they've been connected for a VERY long time, etc. There's just a lot of things that raise red flags.
The thing that immediately sold me on Maruki as an antagonist was how his Palace and the imagery within it was this mashup of Mega Church-esque cultism (complete with doves and WHITE everywhere), constant surveillance and feel of control, and hospital vibes. It's a very unique collage but one that instantly struck me and relayed perfectly what kind of villain Maruki is and why what he does isn't "good" even when it seems like it. Like cults that tend to love bomb you and provide you with comfort and love whenever you require but ultimately do not lead to a healthier outlook, only escapism. Rather than take your problems head on they try to tell you to turn away from them, to give them onto someone else, to make it "easier" for yourself.
Maruki is awesome. And my bad, I just checked after watching the video. What the heck TH-cam!?! Someone's channel is taken by the wheel and you lack the quality control to nip the scammers in the bud. Not cool TH-cam, not cool.
Just fully finished P5R finally and I loved Maruki's arc. Sad to find out the VA has passed away. These games have had such a big impact on me since I started playing them a few months ago, and he was one of my favorite characters.
I think the better question of whether or not maruki is a villain is whether or not there even is a responsible use of his powers. The most agregious use of his abilities in my mind is absolutely the way he warps people's memories and personalities. Imagine a world where maruki did miracles such as bringing family back to life and curing ailments and bringing stability to broken homes but he just was honest about it, everyone knew these things happened and aren't being forced to think they're normal. He doesn't even have to take credit for it if he really doesn't want to to keep his self image of being selfless.
A noble goal with a foolish way of achieving it "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" For growth, there is need for pain, it is what brings change, lif isn't perfect, but we are here and meant to live it Cry, laugh, fail, try again, and when you get the result you want, that will give you satisfaction, and make you want another goal Well, in a way, we all can be a villain in someone else's story to a point... Who knows what others think after all, but focus on being the best version of you always, and never forget to take time for some self care as well Edit: Oh damn, he also used the quote, lol
I love how everyone is talking about maruki's ethic. Meanwhile I oppose maruki's simply because he is suffering. I going to be honest, I do agree with maruki's ideals. A world without pain and suffering is the ideal world. Under any other circumstances, I will accept his offer. But why i can't is because he suffering. He doing it so he can ignore his own pain. Sadly even a minor inconvenience can trigger a trama response depending on the person. Injustice traumatized him. So all form of Injustice need to be deleted. That's why i oppose him. Not because i want to stop him. I want to save him.
Honestly one of my favorite parts of Maruki is how I felt he was meant to parallel and comment on Nyarlathotep and Philemon from the oldsona (Persona 1 and 2) games. Like, his Palace specifically uses all-new Shadows that're taken directly from Persona 2, specifically the ones in and around Nyarlathotep and Tatsuya's Scenario, it's set up the same as an area directly created by the cognition of the masses [or at least, the Phantom Thieves] like Monado Mandala was, and Maruki has a very similar mentality to Philemon. The suffering of the few is worth the happiness of the masses. The difference is of course we get Maruki humanized, we see his motivations and he's a *human,* not a god created *by* humanity. It's so interesting how he can parallel and yet contrast them so perfectly. Hell, his Persona is even the father of Nyarlathotep in HP Lovecraft lore. For all the want of some oldsona fans to bring back elements of the old games such as Nyarlathotep and Philemon, I think something like this is a perfect compromise for bringing those elements into modern games. A Persona user who's a direct enemy to the cast, yet has motivations that we can relate to so thoroughly. Like it even makes me consider if I would accept his reality, like you said. And that conversation is so interesting *because* it's so unique to the individual. It's weird to say I would probably find it hard to deny a reality like that, and says a lot about a person on whether they would or not and why. He's such a better villain than Yaldaboth.
Thing is, with P2 and such in mind, and how weird his Persona is... I don't think he's got a normal Persona. I think this IS an eldritch creature like Nyarly. Just one that's "benevolent."
Frankly the P1 influence is _so_ great I'm baffled how much the themes carry over -- I wouldn't call it a 1:1 recreation (Maruki takes elements of Kandori, but also some of Maki, and even looks _wildly_ similar to a Snow Queen boss named Kumi) but P5R also went through the trouble of including a sibling-twist like the P1 manga did. Kandori's fight also has a moment of fusing with (what's later understood as Nyarly) that's meant to be freaky but also isn't as um. well _consensual_ as P5R handled it😅 Keeping that kind of character grounded in not only benevolence ("warped more than a taffy-puller" benevolence but still) but _humanity?_ I appreciate the effort that went into that 100%🧃
@@AnakhaSilverYeah ngl I've seen enough comparisons of their designs to worry the same lmao; both are visually gleaming gold symbols of religion (buddhism & a stylized cross-caduceus mix) deeply entwined with black masses of tendrils reaching out in blue-green hands & suckers. Between the headaches (in Maruki's journal), auditory hallucinations, cognitive-altering abilities _in reality_ before awakening, swapped "I am thou"s, lack of any mask-ripoff, and both Maruki & Kandori being stabbed & subsumed during their bossfight...... Honestly I could believe it even if it's never followed up on or confirmed (pretty sure the devs meant Azathoth to be "just a normal Persona" but it's still eldritch af)
Yaldaboth is at least accurate. An ego maniac who sees his will as law. Difference is he was born out of humanity’s desire to come together under one, which- like it or not- has its consequences.
Honestly I very much believe he’s a villain, since he’s literally forcing his will upon everyone in order to make a better world and is willing to get rid of or change anything that threaten’s said world. No matter how good or evil the individual is they’re still capable of being a villain whether they are aware of it or not.🐱
With how he helped his ex gf, it reminded of something. A man wants to save his beloved who was dying. He is told by a diaty to go to the underworld and gather water from the river Styx. He does so despite the danger and succeeds. After returning, he gives the water to his beloved, this saving her life. But she completely loses all her memories, including the ones of their loving bond. Maruki's actions are the same.
I'd love to see you tackle DBZ villains. Not necessarily because of Toriyama, but because I feel like they get a lot of undeserved flack for being evil for the sake of it, when I think they're a perfect example of how to do that type of villain well and of why that whole mentality of what a good villain is/should be is flawed. At the very least, I think Frieza's worth talking about, especially given his entire role in Super.
I screwed up my first playthrough of royal and sold it so I never got the end. Until I rebought it. I got to Maruki when he passed. Idk why but, his lines just hit harder.
I wouldn’t call him a villain since he isn’t evil, more like an antagonist. But yeah he’s definitely of the greatest antagonists I’ve seen in a video game. His motivations are understandable, his methods are questionable, and while the results that he wants to strive for is ultimately against the heroes, you could argue that it could be a good thing. Maruki has seen so much suffering and he wants it all to end, but he still must be stopped because he would be taking away the free will of humanity if he succeeds
He would also be taking away acually happiness and personal growth, which is why I strongly believe him as a villain. He has good means but has a bad end.
Maruki's story always brings me to tears, due to the conflict and the question. I wish so much much of my friends and family didn't die or get hurt, yet its that suffering that made myself and those I know grow. I suck at drawing and game dev yet I still try, I PERSONALLY COULDN'T live in a world were the fame and talent were given to me on silver platter with no struggle, were nothing ever happens. I wouldn't be ME without my imperfections and pain. I chose the true end due these thoughts. He isn't just a villain yes but he is a as you say hypocritic! he has good intentions but those intentions ruin that growth that we humans desire. and so I continue and try, as I hope everyone does. wonderful video Manga Kamen. Id love to see both routes honestly, but more persona first wouldn't kill lol. Maruki is awesome!
if i had his powers I can honestly say i would give people the option to live in a false world i've been disabled all my life and with age my physical pain is only getting worse i can honestly say I would happily live in a false world with no disabilities but realize not everyone would agree
Another great vid. I couldn't really get into Persona as a game (not really my kinda game), but the story and characters of P5 and royal are fascinating to me. You and your team did a great job on this one Kamen and I look forward to what will come next.
Part of the reason why I personally don't few Maruki as a villain, is because of the scenes with Rumi. He is willing to sacrifice his own happiness for the sake of the everyone else. It makes him more self sacrificing and when the breakdown does happen as the tower is falling, one of his first things he rages out before striking you is Rumi's name. He wanted to be happy and be the selfish person, but chooses to ignore it for what he feels would be best for everyone else. Was he wrong in what he chose for everyone else? Yes. Is it foolish and misguided to think you can be the one to decide what others need for themselves? Absolutely. But Maruki was attempting to solve the world's problems in his own way, for the betterment. I compare Maruki to something like Magneto vs Dr Doom, where outside of their mindset and shortcomings, what they overall are trying to achieve is noble, it is good. And what makes them antagonists is how they're going about it is wrong, even if you can understand why they came to these conclusions. I see the label of villains are more entirely self centered and self obsessed like with Dr Doom. Doom is so obsessed with belittling Mr Fantastic that he ruins his own life and wastes all of his talents when he has been shown that he can easily make the world a much better place. He's stuck on his own pettiness and ego that makes him a villain while someone like Magneto is an antagonist trying to end oppression for mutants and humanity overall because he is a victim of it both as being a mutant himself and a jewish man who survived WW2. Magnet opposes the X-Men because they aren't choosing a path to true equality but are just trying to stick to the status quo by quietly sitting under the thumb of their oppressors, when that isn't an option for all mutants to even have like the majority of the X-Men have the ability to do. Maruki sits a lot closer to a Magneto than a Dr Doom to me.
Glad to see you survive that hack attack Kamen. Also great video by the way. I would be very interested if you ever decided to do an analysis on the Xenoblade Chronicles series villains.
The game lays out maruki pretty well with his persona , Azathoth , the blind idiot god while trying to help people he destroys what makes them people along with the universe due to his own desires
I'd wavered a bunch of times back and forth on my stance on Maruki's deal. Rejected by principle of being the antagonist, accepted from seeing the results, rejected again cause freedom, and so on. But I think I eventually settled on accepting it. While it could certainly do with less happy pills on his part, being able to overwrite and fix pointless tragedy is just too good to pass up. Morgana's speech is nice and all, but it's no solace to those that have fallen terminally ill, or lost limbs, or whatever major upset impacted their lives. I suffered myself for a good long while and came out much stronger for it, but even knowing the results, I wouldn't do it again or wish it on anyone else. That isn't even touching what Kamen said about issues without a solution. Imagine prioritizing your own growth over being able to snap poverty, crime, war, and so many other fundamental issues out of existence. Sure, you can address some of those, but not easily, very much unlikely, and taking too long to save those in the now.
I agree with the video kind of, but that brings a bigger question of the phantom thieves also using their own sense of morality (despite it being commonplace nowadays) to change the world. Maruki does the same thing simply in a bigger scale. To say maruki is a villain is to also say that the phantom thieves are not unquestionably good. Still, maruki applies a universal condition of "goodness" and restoration based on people's own desires, while the PT take vigilante justice and post-hoc justify it with popular vote/approval. Phantom thieves using their own volition and judgement is no different from maruki. Perhaps this is the point , still them it devalues the entire core of the message of the first game about teenagers standing up for themselves.
Furthermore, phantom thieves with their power are an authority , far greater than even shido. That they don't exercise their newfound powers is a personal restraint.
Some thing interesting to point out is that makoto is Alive in the third semester. thanks to maruki . I do wonder now how many people will pick his reality after playing reload when hearing that.
@@aresrivera9744 The problem with that is that it would kinda end the world. His reality rewriting powers have not been proven to work on other Gods so there's no guarantee he simply made it so that Nyx would not attempt to end the world.
@@the_supern0va238 it’s not that hard tho . Erebus respond every year and is killed by Elizabeth. All maruki have to do is make the public unconscious “ MoMentos “ not desire death anymore and Erebus will lose his immortality just like Yaldabaoth. Plus Morgana himself says that all of reality is cognition nyx, yaldobaoth, Izanami everything is just a manifestation of humanity’s cognition not just a meta-versa which is why all of existence was re-created when joker defeated yaldobaoth
I feel that whenever someone says Maruki isn't a villain, they either didn't pay attention or willfully ignore his actual methods for creating a perfect world. One thing not touched upon in the video is if people fail to be rehabilitated, their cognition is forced to change entirely, effectively killing their sense of self and becoming something else entirely. That said, I can see people acknowledging Maruki's methods in totality as justified, because the world he makes is truly a beautiful lie. Anyone who has ever played the mainline SMT would realize this is a Law route but very well dressed and appealing to the eye. And the fact that people unapologetically agree with Maruki just shows how well-layered this topic truly is. Maruki isn't my favorite villain, as I'm old enough to understand that conflict is required in life to grow as a person, but the topic of Maruki's perfect world is a compelling one that I always enjoy hearing others talk about.
He's more an Antagonist than full on Villain. A villain is more... Malicious in intent. His methods are not the most.... Morally correct to say the least, he doesn't want to hurt anyone
Or they say that because they know the definitions of Antagonist and Villain. Maruki isn't evil, selfish or malicious in his actions. He's misguided and has a warped view of his good intentions which is why he's an antagonist not a villain.
@@xyno2112 i was at the start, still wouldn't say he's a full on "Villain" a guy who got in over his head wíth power, yes, but for me a full on villain is someone who doesn't give the amount of... Care or remorse he does. If he kept up, he would have fully bloomed into one but thankfully, he got some sense which dials him down in my opinion. But again, my opinion, I can understand how someone wouldn't feel the same way
"as I'm old enough to understand that conflict is required in life to grow as a person" And what makes growing as a person objectively correct over living without suffering? Who makes this judgement call? We do, humans, as fallible as Maruki himself. It isn't an objective point of view. Both yours, mine own and his are valid. It also has nothing to do with age. I am in my mid 30s, I don't claim to be more profoundly knowledgable about life and how it should be lived then anyone younger then myself. Maruki is not a villain by literary terms. He is the antithesis to the narratives views on authority, he does not fit the narratives earlier perspective on authority. His views are presented by the narrative as valid, simply by having the phantom thieves claim to not agree with his methodology rather then overtly say they are wrong. Never do they wholeheartedly condemn what he is doing, which means the PT's were the ones in the wrong by treating ALL authority as universally corrupt. The narrative itself is admitting to its flaws in storytelling prior to Royal's release. Never once did it provide a counter-argument. And indeed, Vanilla P5 was highly flawed with its presentation of authority as inherently villainous. The PT's, personally, do not feel comfortable living under his influence. And I would not either. We are all fallible, including him, and power will often corrupt. That is his only flaw, being human. Neither what he does and why he does it are wrong.
1:10 Someone should try telling that to Atlus, seeing as they still haven't relented on disabling the share button. Not that them doing so was ever actually about spoilers but they no longer have that excuse.
Absolutely agreed with your take on what makes him a villain. It's great that Maruki is a nice guy and has good relationships with the Phantom Thieves, but no one should be comfortable with anyone having full control of their lives and experiences! That's wild! Also he's a terrible therapist lol, which makes sense since he's really more of a researcher
Hoooooleeee, where to start with this... Before anything, love the video and your point of view. Never really thought of looking at Maruki as a full-blown villain, and your argument is solid. However, to me he is still an antagonist. In my opinion, a full-blown villain is a character that is either very selfish, self-centered and does not care for the suffering they bring so long as they are able to bring their goals to fruition, or they love the suffering they bring to all persons that interact with them. Maruki simply has a tunnel vision for his goal, trying to bring an end to suffering, not being able to see that this simply clashes with the ideals of freedom and individuality the Phantom Thieves represent. He does not really do it out of malice or selfish gain, but because he really cares for people. Yes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but to me this is more of the tunnel vision he has, not accepting the help or point of view of others. I see Maruki as an antagonist, that could have turned into a full-blown villain at some point. That much power surely would have corrupted him at any point, but the Phantom Thieves, in a way, also saved him from himself.
Would recommend you make the title and thumbnail a bit less filled with spoilers, but I’m glad videos on this fantastic character are still being made!
Glad you got your channel back, Kamen. I reported it to TH-cam and left a note explaining what had happened to let them know you weren’t the one responsible since it upset me to see all your hard work potentially get lost to time thanks to a scummy crook.
Personally i think Maruki is one of the only villains/antagonists in any video game media that could be good for society given before he has his powers and after he lost to the phantom thieves tho thats just me, also it would be interesting to hear u talk about Strega from persona 3
If you enjoyed the video, be sure to like the video, share it on twitter/reddit, and leave a comment - It doesn't cost you anything but at most a minute of your time - Doing this helps the channel and pushes me to make more and better content :)
You should do video on villains of Valkyria Chronicles 4.
I loved the video however I have one argument. You said being a hypocrite is wrong but I think it's impossible to not be one. If you sit down and question yourself you will eventually find questions your 50/50 or unable to answer because it would be easier not to. My argument is it's impossible in life to not be a hypocrite as it's a morally gray area rather than a one sided bad area especially when it comes to positions in power.
You should make a video about Tohru adachi from persona 4
please do a video on Emet-Selch, the villain of Final Fantasy XIV shadowbringers and the much larger view we get on his life in Endwalker
In fact many of the villains of FF14 would make for good discussions in their own ways.@@destinyshand2049
Doctor Maruki truly stands out from all the previous persona antagonists, he is neither a god, a murderer or a mentally unstable teenager, he is a normal man that only wants people to not suffer
And you know what's even more crazy about when he was doing his research? He got off easy, meanwhile Futaba's mom who was doing the same thing got assassinated for it.
The best villains are the manipulative type like Maruki and from my POV he wasn't sane at all, it was that he masked it with a happy face.
Lmao I was gonna say about "mentally unstable teenager"; Futaba had a Palace whose distortions were borne of grief & self-loathing for the mother she felt responsible for losing.
When it comes to "grief-distorted Palace Rulers with a connection to cognitive psience (stolen by Shido) and a Lovecraftian Persona", Maruki can have some parallels to Futaba in that regard......... after the fistfight he very much was on the route to suicide before Joker saved him, comparable to how Futaba's guilt & self-isolation almost drove her to the same.
I kinda like how their changes of heart accomplished a healthier emotional outlook for both of them; sure Maruki was definitely going to cause more damage than Futaba but seeing him happy in the end was a relief on its own for me😅
@@LunaP1 Wakaba was the biggest threat to Shido, so he had to get rid of her asap. Maruki probably wasn't even on his radar (since he wasn't researching cognitive psience for the government).
I mean, he's basically the "Lawful" path in SMT games. Not really a standout thing.
RIP Billy Kametz man was a legend and will be missed
🫡
@@NicoTheCinderaceoh hey nico
i’ll never forget the guy, rest easy king
I'm still so sad about his passing. I met him at a convention in 2021 and he was so nice, taking the time to chat with me about Fire Emblem and Persona, and he signed my shirt of his Fire Emblem Three Houses character Ferdinand Von Aegir. His voice work was truly amazing, he was so passionate in all of his roles. Rest in peace
He was also the OG Voice for Naofumi in Shield Hero and Shin in 86ers. Man was amazing.
Maruki is one of the best examples of a dark messiah: A character who believes that the happiness of humanity is their responsibility and will even do „questionable“ actions to archive it. This description fits Maruki well.
He isn‘t a bad person, he just wants to help the world but will go to the extremes to achieve it.
What I really love is that he genuinely has good intentions and there are tangibly good results... to an extent. But it is still wrong, and I think even deep down he knows it too. What a fantastic going up to face him it was with "I believe" playing in the background.
@@1Sir-McKnightThe fact he practically asks you to have a quick punching match with him helps show he knows. It's less Shido wanting to kill and pummel Joker with his own hands and more... Yu and Yosuke by the river in Yosuke's social link. He knows he's done something stupid, but knows part of him doesn't want to admit it.
Did you mean 'achieve'?
@ Sorry, literal error
He definitely knows deep down. Imo it's why he tells joker that he was scared they wouldn't share the same view. @joshthemc-knight2033
I know its not the topic of the video, but i love Akechi's stance on Maruki's ideology, which is basically
"Cool motive, still brainwashing"
Lovely. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
You know it's bad when you're agreeing with the literal murdering psychopath.
Well, its a major point
God i love Akechi in the third semester. All the swearing and yelling is so refreshing against Maruki's friendly nice guy talking.
@@rachelle364 he is the true igniter of the heist, calling out maruki on manipulation
Maruki: "All the world will be happy"
Joker: "How about Shido?"
Maruki: "Screw him"
Akechi: "THAT's the only thing I agree with you"
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Shido yoinked his research paper so he took it personally,
hahaha! Okay, you get both a laugh and Like from me.
But when shidos heart was changed, he confessed instantly though :(
What if him being punished is what he wanted?
Speaking as a counsellor, Maruki's journey into villainy was well portrayed even early in the game in his flaws as a counsellor.
Maruki allows his own trauma, his own desires, his own feelings to command the space with his clients. He is always quick to reassure and provide relief, wanting to remove pain, where a counsellor should join the client in their pain to empower them to find sense in it. He is not able to take the truly empathic stance of seeing the pain of another and feeling it as theirs, because he internalises their pain as his own. He's clearly trying but he has not done the work on himself.
So when someone who cannot tolerate pain in their clients gains absolute power what do you expect?
From a counsellor's perspective, Maruki is one of my favourite depictions of a counsellor in media, because he demonstrates so well the damage one can do even while truly trying to help.
People say that Maruki was good and had good intentions, and i try to avoid good and evil as labels as they simplify too much.
For me, both Maruki and the Phantom Thieves are manipulators, through his powers of control/stealing hearts respectively. The difference comes in scale and intention. Maruki manipulates the world because he cannot bear the pain that comes with living, ultimately a selfish intention. The Thieves are more selective, picking individuals, and the intention is to liberate (the exception being Sae which is the most questionable action in my opinion as this was mostly for self-preservation, and Futaba where their actions were explicitly invited).
I think the Thieves' actions are a bit morally grey, but certainly understandable. Maruki though, is significantly darker from this perspective.
Minor thing, Maruki isn't a villain, but an antagonist. I think I also heard that how he acts as a counselor is how Japanese counselors act, which is noticeably different from American counselors.
As for the Thieves and Maruki's actions, Maruki does manipulate the world, but it's mostly for the happiness of everyone. And the PT's aren't exactly "manipulative", but more getting someone to accept the weight of what they've done. There is some morally grey stuff in there, both both are largely for the benefit of others.
There's also the fact that Maruki's goals were never intended to be "evil" or even "wrong". Neither accepting or rejecting his proposal is the true "correct" choice; it all depends on your own morality.
@@Scanny524 The Phantom Thieves never stole Sae's heart, nor did they ever intend to. All of that was just to set a trap for Akechi and save Joker's life.
There's a scene shortly after Joker and 'Kasumi's' first visit to the palace where they are both talking with Maruki (Oct. 11th) and Kasumi talks about the breakthrough she had by "standing up to her problems" and, for a brief moment, Maruki looks visibly dejected as he looks away. Like a part of him is annoyed that she's taking a different approach than his 'actualization'. One of those things I only noticed on the 2nd playthrough.
I read elsewhere that Maruki was never really said to be an actual therapist, just a researcher. That instead of hiring a much more expensive therapist, they hired a researcher with a Psych degree for a lot cheaper, reinforcing how crappy the school is. If that's the case, he may just lack the proper training to keep himself out of those therapy sessions. That's a learned trait.
Something that highlights Sumire's importance to the story and Maruki, I think, is that she essentially acts as a test case for each side to prove their argument.
For the majority of the game, she is solidly in Camp Maruki, abandoning her identity as Sumire to act as Kasumi. This initially proves Maruki's point, as she was trapped in despair with no hope of recovery or completing the dream she shared with her sister. However, as you progress her confidant, it's shown that that happiness is short-term and stagnant. Sumire can pretend to be Kasumi, but she can't truly replicate her sister's performance, and thus can't fulfill their dream as she is.
It's only once Joker helps her face her grief and accept herself as Sumire that she begins to truly move forward. It took a lot of short-term pain, but she converted that pain into developing her gymnastics abilities and making true progress with her and her sister's dream.
Maruki has a compassionate goal, but only seeks short-term relief from tragedy that requires long-term healing. Under his rule, no one can truly grow like Sumire and the Phantom Thieves were able to. The Phantom Thieves may not be able to erase the trauma people suffer, but they can at least provide a chance for those victims to pick themselves back up and continue on under their own strength.
Sumire was the direct evidence for this.
Hell, it’s shown that personal demons can be the most threatening as the Phantom thieves would have died in futaba’s palace without her confronting the truth herself.
Its funny because Strikers deals with that same issue with Akira saying he will help those who never got a chance to be saved yet he used a little girl to capture the phantom theives and fight against her father, not to mention the other prison wardens being forced to stay in their trauma because of emma and him, i wont even get into the one that made emma she got off way too easy compared to the akira
And this is the main reason why Sumire’s my favorite Persona 5 character-she’s so damn good.
Also, she acknowledges Maruki’s actions did provide a short term bandage (she implies that she thinks she would’ve attempted to kill herself if she was still aware she was Sumire), but not the proper recovery she needed, and only finally started to move on with the help of the Phantom Thieves.
I love Sumire. Best Royal Trio member imo.
A line that I will always remember is from Morgana. He says that he acknowledges that many people would benefit from a world like this and sees where he's coming from even though he disagrees.
I also love how Maruki basically does the same. He says something like "the truth is, it is better for people to tackle their problems themselves. But reality doesn't always make that so feasible!"
@@xmant8842 Yeah, Maruki was such a well done character. I love this game so much!
Interestingly, accepting Maruki's deal isn't even a "bad ending". Contrary to popular belief, the devs don't consider accepting or rejecting him to be good or bad. They had it so both endings are the good ending.
@@SaiyanGamer95I think thats the devs leaving his game open for every interpretation and not being judgmental. The game its pretty clear which one its the good one: the one where Sumire and Akechi are not unnervingly happy meat-puppets, specially after being specific about upholding their will. The one were a "gentle madman" (literally the name of one the soundtracks for Maruki) dont tamper with the brains of everyone.
@@albertocruzado2899 Only reason Akechi came back from the dead, is because that was Joker's impossible wish. Like Futaba's impossible wish was to have Wakaba alive. When it makes it so sad Akechi is willing to undo his revival, for the greater good of mankind. As Maruki revealed himself how Akechi is back from the dead. Akechi may be insane, but he has some good morals. If sacrificing his existence is the price to pay for mankind to not be dictated by Maruki's false reality, he is willing to pay that price. Happiness should not be given, but rather earned. Without overcoming pain by one's own power, one cannot find true happiness. And sometimes, one needs to make sacrifices, to save those one loves from the pain. I suffer from emotional pain every day from my regrets from my past. Do I let that overpower me? No. I move on, keep living, despite constantly bearing that pain each day.
Rest in peace, Billy Kametz. Like a Shield made of Diamonds, you'll continue to shine on.
Rest in peace, Billy. Shine on you crazy diamond
I think Maruku's Phase 2 being so much easier to fight helps emphasize how hypocritical he is as he mounts a stronger offense, only for it to fade due to how much he refuses to fight them
And by the time Adam Cadmon takes control of the situation, it was too late since they’ve already taken a beating and his first decision is to go so far on offense he’s actively lowering his defense
I feel that the hypocrisy around Rumi is that he probably felt he had to leave her; that him being there might run the risk of her reawakening her buried memories and going into a fugue state again. He convinces himself that relapsing will always happen, and he projects that onto Sumire. He's convinced that she will fall back into the same pitfalls she did the last time because otherwise he could've found a way to help Rumi recover while still being with her. Like you pointed out, his 'sacrifice' of his love is a key part of his messiah complex. I see it as he's convinced he's in the right because he suffered so much, and then the Metaverse handed him all that power like a god on high.
Thats all true. My only question with the true ending though, is what happened to Rumi? I assume everything Maruki did with his power was changed back to how it was, including Rumi (there isnt any evidence to suggest otherwise), so with his new perspective, does he still go and see her in hopes she’ll wake up? does she get better?
I wish that was explained, maybe someone can ask one of the devs, or there’s a good enough theory to explain what happened. Either way, feels like a big question to me.
Personally, I think he did go to see her again, time passed and she woke up, and he helped her heal. Despite all he’s done, I think he and Rumi deserve a happy ending, so thats my headcanon.
@@leoultimaupgraded9914 I think she just forgot about him entirely, since her memory getting wiped happened LONG before Maruki even formed the Palace.
@@F1areon weirdly enough, it might be closer than that; a Treasure's form in the real world basically represents the _root cause_ of a Palace Ruler's distorted perception of the world.
In that case, Maruki's Treasure being a newspaper clipping _about_ the murder of Rumi's parents means it's the origin of his entire Palace to begin with -- he'd probably started forming a Palace immediately after it happened, since it's his emotional devastation over Rumi's condition that motivated the accidental mindwipe in the first place.
So ideally I'd like to think that with 1) Maruki's Palace gone, 2) the Metaverse gone, and 3) Maruki's cognitive powers gone, that Rumi would eventually remember him like all the other things that reverted back to reality.
Thematically it could go either way; it might be better for Maruki to emotionally move on and stop grieving their erased past together, **OR** potentially reconnect with the caring soul he pushed away (isolating himself from any support). I mean, amnesiac-Rumi was _surprisingly_ interested in getting to know the random stranger who "mistook her room for someone else's", so I could easily see a chance meeting with a recovered-Rumi (idk she needed a taxi ride or smth) going well for both of them
@@leoultimaupgraded9914 I also agree he deserves happiness, especially everything that he went through. I headcanon that he's driving people around as a taxi driver in Tokyo, and randomly gets Rumi as a passanger. Maruki recognizes her but Rumi doesn't. They talk and Rumi shows some sign of remembering him (you remind me of someone...). In the end Rumi asks for Maruki's phone number since she enjoyed their conversation. Maruki stares at the new number saved and mutters to himself "I guess fate has a way...."
Billy Billy Billy, can't you see the legacy you left behind?
Rest in peace
Also, Billy played villains so well
It's a shame he passed on so suddenly 😔
Maruki was a favorite of mine alongside a couple other roles of his
Maruki quickly became one of my favorite Persona characters in the entire series, moreso than my other favorite character, Adachi. RIP, Billy Kametz, you knocked this role outta the park.
In fact, you could say that Adachi and Yoshikage Kira are similar in a way that he's some nobody blending in with the crowd, along with his "Persona," no pun intended, of being a hapless goofball, comic relief detective who ends up accidentally leaking confidential information about the murders in Inaba, leading the investigation team into who their next victim will be.
Just finished Persona 5 Royal. I thought Maruki is a great antagonist. Partially because his offer is very tempting. It is such an ideal world, and his intentions are good for it. But besides just struggle, Maurki's plan removes choice. Your perfect life is what he thinks is best for you, to the point of you getting mind wiped and rewritten to believe its for your best. But love his dungeon design, great boss fight, and just a great conclusion to an already great story.
Worth nothing, I think his plan would fall apart eventually, as the expanding people could cause his perfect reality to fall. Trying to accommodate the rest of the world, I think would eventually stretch his mind too much, not even accounting for how exactly new children would complicate things. If you look around the world, you can see NPC's collapse from partying too much, talking about exhaustion from working too much, but they can't stop just because they are so happy doing it. I really like if you look, you can already see cracks starting to form in his perfect world. But I know its a rant all this, I really loved this game.
RIP Billy kametz. You were a great voice actor and you gave a fantastic performance as Maruki
I think it would’ve been like the Matrix.
Haven’t actually completed third semester yet, still going through it for a second time, still enjoyable even with IZUNAGINOOKAMIPICARO and ALL WILL BE REVEALED shouting from Joker. Just wasted another 100 hours into a second play through and I’m at Shido palace
It might interest you to know that technically speaking, there is no correct choice; both accepting and rejecting are equally valid. The devs themselves don't consider rejecting his proposal to be the good ending, nor is accepting his world the "bad ending". They're both the "True Endings".
@@SaiyanGamer95 I haven’t yet seen the video, but I feel kinda bad for Kasumi, as her storyline gets massively dropped after like first hour or so (even before Kamashida is getting taken down). She is quite interesting character, but her personality isn’t exactly revealed until MUCH later in the story.
Meanwhile Maruki’s character is really well-developed and you begin to sort of sympathise with the character. Kinda like Senator Armstrong, but his character actually gets developed throughout the game
@@justiceplay3518 Kasumi gets expanded upon a bit later when she first awakens to her Persona on October 3rd, but she opts to not join the Phantom Thieves. You do also get some scenes with her in Akechi's Confidant.
What I find disappointing is how much pre-released hyped her up. Not only did she get special attention, but they mentioned she dislikes the Phantom Thieves because she believes people should solve their own problems. But when she learns Joker is the leader of the Phantom Thieves, she doesn't join because she disagrees with them, but because she has other stuff going on. And, you know, she's only playable in the final dungeon, so you don't get much time to use her.
@@SaiyanGamer95 yeah, I haven’t seen much of pre-release hype around her, so I am still kinda disappointed that after October 3rd there’s so small amount of interaction with her (you could still go on the hangouts with her, but since before third semester you can get only rank 5 in her social link, it doesn’t really make a lot of sense. Plus on first play-through you can’t really get a lot of confidants done since you need to also upgrade your skills, plus you dunno what confidant abilities actually do.
I saw a comment on a video a while back that basically made the argument that Maruki is the perfect Law alignment representative, and I genuinely couldn't agree more. The philosophical questions he raises like what is the purpose of suffering are scarcely discussed in the world we live in, and if it weren't for my niche religious beliefs (and you know, the lack of cognitive psience in the real world) I'd wholeheartedly champion Maruki's cause to the best of my ability. And then there's the scene after the slugfest with joker that just broke me. The way Maruki simply wants to give in to his despair after losing everything makes him feel so real as a character, and Billy Kametz's performance from the scream to "oh come on, I said I'm done" made it hit that much harder. 10000/10 character, and God bless Billy Kametz's soul
He's kind of a different form of Batman. Someone fueled by darkness to pursue a truly just crusade that they know is pointless, and they entirely plan on meeting their end in the line of duty. And in the process, they completely miss the lasting change they'd be able to enact with a little patience.
as someone that suffers from a condition that cant be cured and can leave me paralyzed for the rest of my life.. not to mention abuse from parents and supposed friends (one that SA'D me and forced me to remain friends with them by threatning me with their family's shady connections.) Maruki's character and goal was something that brought me to tears and made me agree with his character's goals... I wouldnt want anyone else to suffer like that
me too. I know that a lot of people in my family have suffered. I struggle to find reasons to go on every single day. If my loved ones died, I personally wouldn’t see that as “growth.” What would we gain from that?
@@clapped-cheeks Exactly! I think he should have tried to see it from more than just the main charas side? And I really hope that things get better for you... a lot of people have probably already said it you; But you are so strong for the fact that you KEEP going! T_T Know that at least one random person on the internet is gonna be cheering for you and hoping you are doing ok.
You need happiness, and you need pain. A world in which there is no pain at all would be completely static and no real long-term happiness (a hell in my personal opinion). Obviously, a world were pain and suffering in maximum would be hell. Pain and failure Is abousotely necessary for long-term happiness and personal growth. Tragedy Is different than normal pain however, and unless you have good support around you, it can cause you harm in personal growth. But if you do have good support, i genuinely believe there will be positive personal growth given enough time
I agree and I think it's pretty easy for anyone who has a less fortunate time in this world to agree with Maruki's goals. Marukis dream would require us to sacrifice our free will and for most people who have suffered hardships that are to much or left a major impact on our lives this is a relatively easy choice and most would take his deal. The people who will suffer the most from this deal and lack of free will is the people who are already privileged and have had the possibility to bounce back from hardships. This isn't possible for many. I read in another video a few year ago this (paraphrasing). "Imagine a mother who loves her family more than anything in the world. She and her family went out on an outing was in a car accident and everyone in her family dies from it while the mother was left alive but horribly disabled and disfigured. This is a hardship that's to much for her to bear and she will never recover and will forever be depressed and will die alone. How could you ever say that she shouldn't accept Maruki's deal and how if you were given the choice, how would ever be able to morally justify letting this mother, and so many more who are in similar hardships, suffer so greatly for your own free will?"
@@ggexgaming6020 The problem is that the majority of the worlds population lives in "maximum pain and suffering" where a single screw up will most likely mean death through one way or another. That's how capitalism operates currently. The wealthy oppress the poor (cacao slave farmers, child cobalt miner, etc) for their own benefit and at the expense of the poor. Safety equipment isn't provided or safety regulation isn't followed for many to cut corners and make more money. Maruki's deal will only ever be a bad thing for the already privileged that is afforded the support and help necessary to recover from these hardships
So the whole 'eternity of sleep for Joker' actually makes sense for Maruki to do.
From the very beginning, as their leader, Joker has had to be the one who makes the tough decisions for everyone. He had to be the active person who steps up and does the job before everyone else follows after him, which was practically TORTURE for him because the first time he ever made the decision to step into a major situation, he got screwed over because of Shido, so he has trauma from the thought of needing to act.
Now, after this entire journey of seeing adults abuse their power, to taking down a freaking God, it's not rocket science to say that Joker needs a fucking break. And what does he get instead? The knowledge that the counselor he opened up to is warping the reality they JUST fought to save, but into a totally blissful world where everyone gets what they want and are happy. And once again, people are pushing him around to MAKE A DECISION FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD. He knows that the world Maruki is making isn't right, because it's just another form of imprisonment, but imagine going outside and seeing the friends you've made over the course of this journey, who've struggled and grieved, completely and totally happy. And you're the one who has to burst that bubble. Bring back the reality full of pain and suffering, or let everyone live in a false reality, but happy.
That's a burden that would break even a normal person, imagine loading that onto someone who has trauma from the choice they made.
THAT'S why Maruki puts Joker to sleep if we miss the deadline. We prove that we're PARALYZED by the choice. We can't take away our friends' happiness but we also can't bear to just watch on and smile in this false reality while being fully aware that it's false, because Maruki refuses to force us into this reality and essentially puppet us around. So, the only way out is just blissful unconsciousness, where we won't ever have to think or dwell on the decision. It's a completely understandable choice of mercy for a normal person to spare Joker from pain. It's like euthanizing your pet because you understand that it would just be painful for them to continue living.
Maruki is the kind of villain that'll make you question your own morality. Are you in the right place for trying to stop this man from achieving his goal? Since it isn't at all villainous and can even go so far as to benefit the greater good... despite it being built on nothing but hopeful delusions.
I f**king love Maruki, and I really hope we get more villains like him.
The Doc is such a phenomenal addition to P5, his palace theme is one of my favorites.
Rest in Peace Billy Kametz.
So here is my head canon.
The reason why Joker became aware of the altered reality is that Maruki made him aware to fulfill his real subconscious goal, that even he wasn’t aware of.
What Maruki really wanted all along was someone to talk to that understood him. That’s why to progress in his palace you must learn about his circumstances and pain.
Maruki is a person that, when in pain, will distract himself by trying to solve everyone else’s problems rather than sorting out his own baggage.
So when he got the powers of a god, that allowed him to do basically whatever and fulfill his every desire, he subconsciously made someone that could understand him and help him deal with reality.
Since he was already aware of how the Phantom Thief’s operate and was close to Joker in the first place, it makes sense that he would be made aware of the altered world and try to stop him.
In short the third semester is effectively Marukis subconsciousness and his active consciousness fighting for what he really wants. His active consciousness is trying to save the world as a distraction from his subconscious desire to let out his issues to someone.
That’s why stealing his treasure, which is a persons warped desires, is effectively allowing him to get his shit together
The therapist needs therapy. Holy shit.
And the final fist fight to help him relieve all the pent up feeling and emotion
It's a shame we had to beat him for him to mellow out. With the Phantom Thieve's collective conscience and Maruki's intelligence, they probably could have fixed their world while still allowing free choice. But Maruki was too far gone...
Maruki is by far one of my favorite Persona antagonists, he's a genuinely good man who is always giving out his helping hand to anyone who will willingly take it and he never forces anyone to. It's what makes him so good because he's not in it for the power or anything he's just trying to help people because they've been hurt, but his way doesn't truly help, it's just a pretty lie to cover up the pain and trauma that are still there. It's why his boss fight and everything about him make me tear up because he's just a deeply hurt man that never got over his pain all while trying to help others with theirs. The moment he finally lets it all out is so heartbreaking to me but so satisfying in the end.
Billy had so many good characters he got to play, Maruki, Josuke and Ferdinand from FE 3 Houses are my all time favorites. He will be deeply missed but his legacy will never be forgotten🤍
Rest in peace Billy Kametz man. Such a legendary voice actor, who voiced amazing characters, and was gone way, way too soon 🕊️
One detail i loved in P5R was that after Ann awakens her Persona; and leaves the palace, there's a blink-and-you-miss-it appearance of Maruki prior to his actual debut appearance much akin to how Haru and Makoto can be found in the h Shujin hallways and Library.
Honestly I love that detail so much
You don't notice it at the time since he'd just seem like another unimportant npc in the background
..man, having played 13 sentals lately, ... billy is such a god damn legend, RIP you amazing ..gentle madman
I agree that Maruki is a villain in the story but I also like how, as you said, he is someone who has good intentions but the actions he does aren't good. I only looked at a few scenes from P5 and have listen to people like you explain the story, and I always believed one of the big factors that prove his perfect world was flaw is the fact that Sumire is now Kasumi to everyone having her pretend to be her sister forever basically erasing the existence of a person.
Takuto Maruki is incredible. His motives are just, wanting everyone to just, have everything they want and be happy, create a perfect world without strife. But the ends don't justify the means. The whole time leading up to the decision, I was constantly asking myself, "Do I really WANT to stop him? Do I WANT to break this world of happy endings? Sure, it's uncanny, and this means their struggles were pointless, but everyone is HAPPY. Is freedom worth denying everyone what they desired?", questioning if I realy wanted to fight this Gentle Madman. Until finally, I decided, yes, not only will I fight, but I SHOULD fight, because the struggle makes success all the sweeter. His words are sweet, but you have to Keep Your Faith in your reasons to fight.
Maruki is a fun juxtaposition of Yaldabaoth because, while Yaldabaoth wanted to strip humanity of their wayward desires, Maruki wanted to fulfill those desires. Yet, at the end, they had the same goal: The pacification of humanity. To strip them of their individuality and leave them another shadow amongst the masses. To leave them in a state where they were happy to live under a ruler, to have someone else do all the thinking for them. To blur the line between The Ideal And The Real
Yaldabaoth attempted to do it by force, ripping the desires from humanity and eradicating the phantom thieves from existence. Maruki wanted to do it diplomatically, by granting those same desires and dissolving the phantom thieves due to a lack of need.
Maruki is my absolute favorite villain I've seen in anything, and, frankly, probably the best part of Persona 5 Royal. He may be the god of control, and wield Azathoth, the Blind Idiot God, and yet, even in his utopia, the Councillor Of Sorrow still weeps
Ah yes Sosuke Aizen.🗿
Not going to lie, I could have got swept up in his plans. He had the power to CREATE WORLDS people's ideal world and free them their pain. It's not inherently evil at all it's just really kind heart that wanted to get rid of the pain in the world good. Like what Obito tried to do it with the Infinite Tsukoyomi. But like a Naruto you got to take the suffering and sorrow, and move on to keep growing. Because if you just give it a shot, dreams can become reality to some extent.
An antagonist yes, but villain no. Maruki is a misplaced hero👍😎
Heroes don't try and force others into their own perfect reality
He's no villain, he's an antagonist. Maruki is just a good man who pursues what he believes it's the right way to make everyone happy.
That doesn't mean he isn't a villain. Villains can believe what they're doing is in the right.
@@Mangakamen Villains are bad people, even though they can believe to be doing right. Maruki isn't. He's not insane, he's not twisted. Not all antagonist are villains. Maruki is an example. L from Death Note is an antagonist, but that doesn't make him a villain. Being an antagonist depends on the perspective of the story, being a villain depends on the character's morality and mentality.
You keep saying this but Maruki already decided that he knew what was best for Kasumi even though she said she didn't want that, the same with the other Phantom Thieves and he was willing to ignore that.
Sounds pretty villainous... Why are you ignoring that?
I would say the term Villain is relative and depends on how you define it. I don’t think there’s a right answer to whether Maruki is a villain or not and that it was targeted to being more on the philosophical side. This brings up the question of whether you believe intent or action is more important in defining a villain.
Was about Time you made a „Villains done right“ Video about a video game villain.
This video does well enough, I'll do one on Sephiroth.
@@MangakamenNot yet please. Wait until the trilogy of the remakes are finished please.
He was a great character and a phenomenal antagonist.
Rip Billy Kametz
Gone but not forgotten
27:14
Life will change, THAT I BELIEVE
*I believe that it will change*
Oziach collab was a great touch , amazing choices aside I thank billy for voices this character because after a long time of watching anime & playing games . Iv never been been able to relate yet see the contradiction in one’s ideology still I found Maruki . There’s many villains/bosses that can make u question ur morals , desires and ideals but maruki was I’d say the biggest reason why I’ll never stop recommending this game as a jump off rpg for others . Not many games will ask u the question “ suffering , yes it’s necessary for one to grow but can u say honestly u would welcome it or reject the form it takes “ . No one knows the trails that will give ur personality & identity form but that’s what makes us , Us and maruki asked the question “wat if u get rewarded without suffering “ . Most would jump for that and some can see the monkey foot deal at ply .
Thanks for the video as usually kamen , I love this game & character very much and may billy rest in peace his memory will be remembered forever in our phantom hearts ❤️ & Persona History 📚.
Honestly...? I may have accepted the world he created. Some people just can't find happiness now matter how hard they try. The least they deserve is a daydream to find comfort in
Maruki is easily my favorite villain of this archetype and my 3rd favorite in general. The thing that really sells him is the time you spend just hanging out with him in the main game on top of his motivations. It's a lot more personal for him. Of course, there're all his contradictions and hypocrisy that make it even better. Despite the messed up stuff he does, though, I'd say he still has a much better track record than most villains of the archetype. He hasn't killed anyone, destroyed anything, or waged war on the world. Of course, I disagree with him, but I do occasionally wonder what a more constrained version of that world would be like. Someone who's fully self aware of what they're doing basically only goes after all the scum bags and major world problems. So basically the Phantom Thieves on a global scale and without their restrictions I guess.
Channel's Back. YES.
Really glad to see a Maruki video. Maybe we could get videos for the other Persona villains? I find a lot of Persona villains are very misunderstood by the fandom (Akechi) or generally overlooked (Kandori and Joker) so I'd like to see your take on them
The part about stagnation, reminds me of the how the multiverse in Fate works, in Fate, whenever a world reaches peace and subsequently stagnation, it ends up being pruned, that is to say erased, because it cannot grow, it cannot change, only a world with strife can evolve and avoid stagnation, and these worlds are shown to in fact be miserable, for in the 2nd chapter we visit 7 of these in the form of the lostbelts
If Fate was in the same universe as Persona, Maruki’s altered reality would definitely have been a pruned timeline like a Lostbelt.
@@VolticWind Maruki is a Crypter with Avicebron as his servant
Ahh maan so this is how I find out his VA died. RIP Billy. Part of why the character worked so well was his calming voice, it fit so perfectly.
Another great vid, Kamen! Billy did a fantastic job playing this good-minded villian! T.T
My friend. This is the first video I’ve watched from you and I have to say it’s absolutely incredible. I was a massive fan of P5R and it’s new content on release, but was always confident in my opinion of Maruki. Never did I expect to have to sit and think on my initial views so much until this video - the points and arguments are so well crafted and voiced, and the connections/similarities to Yaldabaoth were some serious food for thought on top of everything else. Well deserved sub, keep doing what you’re doing ✨
How easy it is to praise strength in individualism... And yet, not everyone in the world is made of that same stronger stuff. Not everyone has the strength or luxury to stand tall on their own, or the friends and connections to do it hand in hand with others. Its easy to believe it can be done, when that is the narrative the story pushes, and yet, its one upheld by protagonists with supernatural powers. The justice they carry out can only be done because they have those strengths and luxuries, but in the real world most don't. In some places, to rebel means nothing more than to die for nothing, for something that may never be held for generations to come. To leave those sorrows and troubles unaddressed when one has the power to help, that I think is the real evil. The strength the thieves champion isn't something that heights them, its something they have to draw up or be destroyed, but why then permit a world where being destroyed for being insufficient is something one must worry about to exist?
I'm glad someone else here is talking about this point. They might as well be telling every person in the world to "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps!" While they themselves needed magical powers to even fix their problems, without which they would of all suffered terrible fates.
Even if Maruki's world wasn't perfect for everyone, it's still a better one and could be changed to be even better for everyone in the future. just like how we and they try to make our own world a better one.
It's for this reason that the "true" ending seems so fucking bleak to me. Yeah, it's good for the main cast, and I get why they'd disagree with Maruki, but to forever destroy the power that could easily fix all major systemic problems in the world _for eternity_ seems abhorrent to me.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you. This is one of the major reasons why I side with Maruki and have become disillusioned with P5R’s story.
The game insists that one can better themselves by overcoming pain and struggles, but it doesn’t have a sufficient answer to a question I frequently ask: *“What if you can’t?”* There are millions in this world who will never be free of their pain no matter how much willpower they have, and I think those folks should be prioritized. Because, if we don’t look out for the most unfortunate and miserable of us, then what kind of hellish world are we building? Definitely not one I’d want to live in, that’s for sure.
@alistairmarston9405 By the same token, there will be thousands that will be forced to give up their dreams because Maruki thought that their dream was too hard to achieve, thus forcing them to be neutered mentally. Don't those people deserve a chance to try for their dreams if they are willing to work for it.
@@bcmcbride518dreams don't matter, happiness is what matters. That's what people actually seek when they have and achieve dreams anyway. People are wired differently without having a choice in the first place, things that gives happiness to some people may not do the same to others, so changing what people feel happy with is not an issue
maruki is what personally pushed persona 5 royal as one of my favorite games of all time and i really can't stress enough how much of that was thanks to billy kametz' phenomenal performance. RIP you wonderful voice actor
There is a key point brought up throughout the entirety of this story arc: the role of pain and how much it stands to benefit us. Shared pain, shared trauma, this was a fold which allowed the party to come together in the first place. Everyone found a bond through supporting each other through their shared experiences. Removing this pain has massive repercussions on the reality Maruki wishes to create, as seen in the observation week, trying to remind each of Ren's friends how they all met gave way to the obvious cracks which allowed them to break through Maruki's reality. This third semester really hit me as someone who has avoided rejection from others; pre therapy me would have probably wanted Maruki to take this pain away. Going through the rest of the third semester to me looked at the role pain plays, and it predictably was a little tough to swallow. But that's okay. That was the beauty of the third semester: it showed while life is pretty hard, there are some good things about it which make it worth living.
Maruki is kinda the perfect final villain for P5, idk if it was something that was said in the game specifically but I remember a question that came up while going through his palace which was if Maruki is right about controlling the world then was fighting Yaldaboth a mistake. That line or reasoning stuck in my head the entire time I was fighting him for the first time.
Great video Kamen. Maruki was a great addition to the game for all the reasons you said. Even if I kind of had a feeling he was going to be an antagonist by the end I'm glad they actually made it a challenge of ideals and not just make him evil for the sake of evil.
Maruki actually had his persona and palace way before the god of control. It just got amplified.
... Yes, I pointed that out.
This third semester arc really hammered home how Persona is part of SMT. Aside from the early endings, I like how modern persona doesn't shame you for the choices you make and makes good arguments for the "bad endings". It also adds some excellent theory fuel for how the P3 and P4 casts have been impacted by maruki
10:05 Hey thats me!
Great video btw Kamen, you made a lot of good points against the whole 'Villain vs Antagonist' thing. While i still hold my viewpoint of Maruki, I respect your opinion
I just want to comment this about the title and will come back to my comment after finishing the video.
I never ever considered Maruki a villain, but Persona's Greatest Antagonist. The other Palace rulers are Villains without a doubt. Maruki was just trying to make a better world for everyone, misguided as it may have been, but not with evil intent.
In other words he’s an anti villain.
Thank you TH-cam for recommending me this video when I'm barely on the 2nd palace of the game. Real cool.
Sammmeeeeee
He's back. Thank god.
To the cryptobros that are still here, kindly do yourselves a favor and leave the internet.
I decently appreciate how Maruki is the few cases of sympathetic Villain that feels believable that adds so much to the theme.
Despite the range of such power, he was personally short sighted to an extent. (Or at least that's my interpretation at least, in case I missed the point)
musician here, who paid a lot of attention to the music to this game (for obvious reasons, absolute bangers) and regarding the music portion of this video, the use of lyrical callbacks for the thieves really helps set in stone that the thieves do indeed "fully believe" in not just the future, but the outlook on things they have fought for, its like one final message to us
Hey, the channel is back nice!
Manga said on Twitter that he still doesn't have access
@@John-Stark TH-cam at least restored the videos back to normal.
I think what's most compelling to me is knowing the earlier Persona games, I don't think he has a normal Persona--if one at all. I think he contacted a real eldritch creature like Nyarly. His Persona doesn't use the usual awakening phrasings, implies they've been connected for a VERY long time, etc. There's just a lot of things that raise red flags.
I feel like the fact it's literally Azatoth the father of all eldritch beings and our reality is nothing more then Azathoths dream
The thing that immediately sold me on Maruki as an antagonist was how his Palace and the imagery within it was this mashup of Mega Church-esque cultism (complete with doves and WHITE everywhere), constant surveillance and feel of control, and hospital vibes. It's a very unique collage but one that instantly struck me and relayed perfectly what kind of villain Maruki is and why what he does isn't "good" even when it seems like it.
Like cults that tend to love bomb you and provide you with comfort and love whenever you require but ultimately do not lead to a healthier outlook, only escapism. Rather than take your problems head on they try to tell you to turn away from them, to give them onto someone else, to make it "easier" for yourself.
Why is he the best? Because his outfit is Dio’s THE WORLD!
Best Jojo villain = Best Persona villain.
Also Personas are Stands at home.
It all fits!
Let's not talk about the Crazy Diamond and The World similarities
@@firepuppies4086 Za Warudo.
@@firepuppies4086 I mean, Maruki even has the same (English) voice as Josuke
You think Dio is a better antagonist than Kira, Pucci, Valentine or Toruu?
@@missquake *YES* 🗿
Yay he got his channel back
Maruki is awesome.
And my bad, I just checked after watching the video. What the heck TH-cam!?!
Someone's channel is taken by the wheel and you lack the quality control to nip the scammers in the bud. Not cool TH-cam, not cool.
Ah the channels back now. Goodie.
Just fully finished P5R finally and I loved Maruki's arc. Sad to find out the VA has passed away. These games have had such a big impact on me since I started playing them a few months ago, and he was one of my favorite characters.
I got chills hearing the lines in the first few seconds I hope Billy Kametz is in a better place now
I think the better question of whether or not maruki is a villain is whether or not there even is a responsible use of his powers. The most agregious use of his abilities in my mind is absolutely the way he warps people's memories and personalities. Imagine a world where maruki did miracles such as bringing family back to life and curing ailments and bringing stability to broken homes but he just was honest about it, everyone knew these things happened and aren't being forced to think they're normal. He doesn't even have to take credit for it if he really doesn't want to to keep his self image of being selfless.
A noble goal with a foolish way of achieving it
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
For growth, there is need for pain, it is what brings change, lif isn't perfect, but we are here and meant to live it
Cry, laugh, fail, try again, and when you get the result you want, that will give you satisfaction, and make you want another goal
Well, in a way, we all can be a villain in someone else's story to a point... Who knows what others think after all, but focus on being the best version of you always, and never forget to take time for some self care as well
Edit: Oh damn, he also used the quote, lol
I love how everyone is talking about maruki's ethic.
Meanwhile I oppose maruki's simply because he is suffering.
I going to be honest, I do agree with maruki's ideals. A world without pain and suffering is the ideal world. Under any other circumstances, I will accept his offer. But why i can't is because he suffering. He doing it so he can ignore his own pain. Sadly even a minor inconvenience can trigger a trama response depending on the person. Injustice traumatized him. So all form of Injustice need to be deleted.
That's why i oppose him. Not because i want to stop him. I want to save him.
Honestly one of my favorite parts of Maruki is how I felt he was meant to parallel and comment on Nyarlathotep and Philemon from the oldsona (Persona 1 and 2) games. Like, his Palace specifically uses all-new Shadows that're taken directly from Persona 2, specifically the ones in and around Nyarlathotep and Tatsuya's Scenario, it's set up the same as an area directly created by the cognition of the masses [or at least, the Phantom Thieves] like Monado Mandala was, and Maruki has a very similar mentality to Philemon. The suffering of the few is worth the happiness of the masses.
The difference is of course we get Maruki humanized, we see his motivations and he's a *human,* not a god created *by* humanity. It's so interesting how he can parallel and yet contrast them so perfectly. Hell, his Persona is even the father of Nyarlathotep in HP Lovecraft lore. For all the want of some oldsona fans to bring back elements of the old games such as Nyarlathotep and Philemon, I think something like this is a perfect compromise for bringing those elements into modern games. A Persona user who's a direct enemy to the cast, yet has motivations that we can relate to so thoroughly. Like it even makes me consider if I would accept his reality, like you said. And that conversation is so interesting *because* it's so unique to the individual. It's weird to say I would probably find it hard to deny a reality like that, and says a lot about a person on whether they would or not and why. He's such a better villain than Yaldaboth.
Thing is, with P2 and such in mind, and how weird his Persona is... I don't think he's got a normal Persona. I think this IS an eldritch creature like Nyarly. Just one that's "benevolent."
Frankly the P1 influence is _so_ great I'm baffled how much the themes carry over -- I wouldn't call it a 1:1 recreation (Maruki takes elements of Kandori, but also some of Maki, and even looks _wildly_ similar to a Snow Queen boss named Kumi) but P5R also went through the trouble of including a sibling-twist like the P1 manga did.
Kandori's fight also has a moment of fusing with (what's later understood as Nyarly) that's meant to be freaky but also isn't as um. well _consensual_ as P5R handled it😅
Keeping that kind of character grounded in not only benevolence ("warped more than a taffy-puller" benevolence but still) but _humanity?_ I appreciate the effort that went into that 100%🧃
@@AnakhaSilverYeah ngl I've seen enough comparisons of their designs to worry the same lmao; both are visually gleaming gold symbols of religion (buddhism & a stylized cross-caduceus mix) deeply entwined with black masses of tendrils reaching out in blue-green hands & suckers.
Between the headaches (in Maruki's journal), auditory hallucinations, cognitive-altering abilities _in reality_ before awakening, swapped "I am thou"s, lack of any mask-ripoff, and both Maruki & Kandori being stabbed & subsumed during their bossfight...... Honestly I could believe it even if it's never followed up on or confirmed (pretty sure the devs meant Azathoth to be "just a normal Persona" but it's still eldritch af)
Yaldaboth is at least accurate. An ego maniac who sees his will as law. Difference is he was born out of humanity’s desire to come together under one, which- like it or not- has its consequences.
Takuto Maruki my beloved. ❤
Thank you for giving me even more brainworms about him!
Billy Kametz is a voice actor who just can't be replaced.
Honestly I very much believe he’s a villain, since he’s literally forcing his will upon everyone in order to make a better world and is willing to get rid of or change anything that threaten’s said world. No matter how good or evil the individual is they’re still capable of being a villain whether they are aware of it or not.🐱
With how he helped his ex gf, it reminded of something.
A man wants to save his beloved who was dying. He is told by a diaty to go to the underworld and gather water from the river Styx. He does so despite the danger and succeeds. After returning, he gives the water to his beloved, this saving her life. But she completely loses all her memories, including the ones of their loving bond.
Maruki's actions are the same.
I'd love to see you tackle DBZ villains. Not necessarily because of Toriyama, but because I feel like they get a lot of undeserved flack for being evil for the sake of it, when I think they're a perfect example of how to do that type of villain well and of why that whole mentality of what a good villain is/should be is flawed. At the very least, I think Frieza's worth talking about, especially given his entire role in Super.
I screwed up my first playthrough of royal and sold it so I never got the end. Until I rebought it. I got to Maruki when he passed. Idk why but, his lines just hit harder.
I wouldn’t call him a villain since he isn’t evil, more like an antagonist. But yeah he’s definitely of the greatest antagonists I’ve seen in a video game. His motivations are understandable, his methods are questionable, and while the results that he wants to strive for is ultimately against the heroes, you could argue that it could be a good thing. Maruki has seen so much suffering and he wants it all to end, but he still must be stopped because he would be taking away the free will of humanity if he succeeds
He would also be taking away acually happiness and personal growth, which is why I strongly believe him as a villain. He has good means but has a bad end.
Finally get to watch the video. First opened it in a tab, then the hack happened, saw it was up again that same evening, then the channel got deleted.
Commenting to help re-boost this vid in the algorithm
Maruki's story always brings me to tears, due to the conflict and the question. I wish so much much of my friends and family didn't die or get hurt, yet its that suffering that made myself and those I know grow. I suck at drawing and game dev yet I still try, I PERSONALLY COULDN'T live in a world were the fame and talent were given to me on silver platter with no struggle, were nothing ever happens. I wouldn't be ME without my imperfections and pain. I chose the true end due these thoughts. He isn't just a villain yes but he is a as you say hypocritic! he has good intentions but those intentions ruin that growth that we humans desire. and so I continue and try, as I hope everyone does. wonderful video Manga Kamen. Id love to see both routes honestly, but more persona first wouldn't kill lol. Maruki is awesome!
Maruki is awesome! I love when you talk so indepth about characters. It's fun. Stay awesome man 🤘😁
if i had his powers I can honestly say i would give people the option to live in a false world i've been disabled all my life and with age my physical pain is only getting worse i can honestly say I would happily live in a false world with no disabilities but realize not everyone would agree
Another great vid. I couldn't really get into Persona as a game (not really my kinda game), but the story and characters of P5 and royal are fascinating to me. You and your team did a great job on this one Kamen and I look forward to what will come next.
Part of the reason why I personally don't few Maruki as a villain, is because of the scenes with Rumi. He is willing to sacrifice his own happiness for the sake of the everyone else. It makes him more self sacrificing and when the breakdown does happen as the tower is falling, one of his first things he rages out before striking you is Rumi's name. He wanted to be happy and be the selfish person, but chooses to ignore it for what he feels would be best for everyone else. Was he wrong in what he chose for everyone else? Yes. Is it foolish and misguided to think you can be the one to decide what others need for themselves? Absolutely. But Maruki was attempting to solve the world's problems in his own way, for the betterment.
I compare Maruki to something like Magneto vs Dr Doom, where outside of their mindset and shortcomings, what they overall are trying to achieve is noble, it is good. And what makes them antagonists is how they're going about it is wrong, even if you can understand why they came to these conclusions. I see the label of villains are more entirely self centered and self obsessed like with Dr Doom. Doom is so obsessed with belittling Mr Fantastic that he ruins his own life and wastes all of his talents when he has been shown that he can easily make the world a much better place. He's stuck on his own pettiness and ego that makes him a villain while someone like Magneto is an antagonist trying to end oppression for mutants and humanity overall because he is a victim of it both as being a mutant himself and a jewish man who survived WW2. Magnet opposes the X-Men because they aren't choosing a path to true equality but are just trying to stick to the status quo by quietly sitting under the thumb of their oppressors, when that isn't an option for all mutants to even have like the majority of the X-Men have the ability to do. Maruki sits a lot closer to a Magneto than a Dr Doom to me.
Glad to see you survive that hack attack Kamen. Also great video by the way. I would be very interested if you ever decided to do an analysis on the Xenoblade Chronicles series villains.
the fact that i finally got around to play p5r like a week before this vid got uploaded and i'm like 3 palaces in and I see this vid got me heated.
One of my favorite characters in a game - his VA really nailed it too. :)
Good to have you back captain! 🫡
One of the few honest and kind character ever created, I wish someday to be a character like him... Maybe even getting a job for helping people
Man. I knew this was gonna make me sad and remind me that a beloved VA is gone.
The game lays out maruki pretty well with his persona , Azathoth , the blind idiot god while trying to help people he destroys what makes them people along with the universe due to his own desires
I'd wavered a bunch of times back and forth on my stance on Maruki's deal. Rejected by principle of being the antagonist, accepted from seeing the results, rejected again cause freedom, and so on. But I think I eventually settled on accepting it. While it could certainly do with less happy pills on his part, being able to overwrite and fix pointless tragedy is just too good to pass up. Morgana's speech is nice and all, but it's no solace to those that have fallen terminally ill, or lost limbs, or whatever major upset impacted their lives. I suffered myself for a good long while and came out much stronger for it, but even knowing the results, I wouldn't do it again or wish it on anyone else. That isn't even touching what Kamen said about issues without a solution. Imagine prioritizing your own growth over being able to snap poverty, crime, war, and so many other fundamental issues out of existence. Sure, you can address some of those, but not easily, very much unlikely, and taking too long to save those in the now.
I agree with the video kind of, but that brings a bigger question of the phantom thieves also using their own sense of morality (despite it being commonplace nowadays) to change the world. Maruki does the same thing simply in a bigger scale. To say maruki is a villain is to also say that the phantom thieves are not unquestionably good. Still, maruki applies a universal condition of "goodness" and restoration based on people's own desires, while the PT take vigilante justice and post-hoc justify it with popular vote/approval. Phantom thieves using their own volition and judgement is no different from maruki. Perhaps this is the point , still them it devalues the entire core of the message of the first game about teenagers standing up for themselves.
Furthermore, phantom thieves with their power are an authority , far greater than even shido. That they don't exercise their newfound powers is a personal restraint.
Some thing interesting to point out is that makoto is Alive in the third semester. thanks to maruki .
I do wonder now how many people will pick his reality after playing reload when hearing that.
Where is this shown, exactly?
@@the_supern0va238 maruki granted the wishes of everyone in Japan which would include sees and their greatest wish is to bring back him
@@aresrivera9744 The problem with that is that it would kinda end the world. His reality rewriting powers have not been proven to work on other Gods so there's no guarantee he simply made it so that Nyx would not attempt to end the world.
@@the_supern0va238 it’s not that hard tho .
Erebus respond every year and is killed by Elizabeth.
All maruki have to do is make the public unconscious “ MoMentos “ not desire death anymore and Erebus will lose his immortality just like Yaldabaoth.
Plus Morgana himself says that all of reality is cognition nyx, yaldobaoth, Izanami everything is just a manifestation of humanity’s cognition not just a meta-versa which is why all of existence was re-created when joker defeated yaldobaoth
I feel that whenever someone says Maruki isn't a villain, they either didn't pay attention or willfully ignore his actual methods for creating a perfect world. One thing not touched upon in the video is if people fail to be rehabilitated, their cognition is forced to change entirely, effectively killing their sense of self and becoming something else entirely.
That said, I can see people acknowledging Maruki's methods in totality as justified, because the world he makes is truly a beautiful lie. Anyone who has ever played the mainline SMT would realize this is a Law route but very well dressed and appealing to the eye. And the fact that people unapologetically agree with Maruki just shows how well-layered this topic truly is. Maruki isn't my favorite villain, as I'm old enough to understand that conflict is required in life to grow as a person, but the topic of Maruki's perfect world is a compelling one that I always enjoy hearing others talk about.
He's more an Antagonist than full on Villain. A villain is more... Malicious in intent. His methods are not the most.... Morally correct to say the least, he doesn't want to hurt anyone
@@firepuppies4086 My guy did you not watch the video?
Or they say that because they know the definitions of Antagonist and Villain. Maruki isn't evil, selfish or malicious in his actions. He's misguided and has a warped view of his good intentions which is why he's an antagonist not a villain.
@@xyno2112 i was at the start, still wouldn't say he's a full on "Villain" a guy who got in over his head wíth power, yes, but for me a full on villain is someone who doesn't give the amount of... Care or remorse he does. If he kept up, he would have fully bloomed into one but thankfully, he got some sense which dials him down in my opinion. But again, my opinion, I can understand how someone wouldn't feel the same way
"as I'm old enough to understand that conflict is required in life to grow as a person"
And what makes growing as a person objectively correct over living without suffering? Who makes this judgement call? We do, humans, as fallible as Maruki himself. It isn't an objective point of view. Both yours, mine own and his are valid. It also has nothing to do with age. I am in my mid 30s, I don't claim to be more profoundly knowledgable about life and how it should be lived then anyone younger then myself.
Maruki is not a villain by literary terms. He is the antithesis to the narratives views on authority, he does not fit the narratives earlier perspective on authority. His views are presented by the narrative as valid, simply by having the phantom thieves claim to not agree with his methodology rather then overtly say they are wrong. Never do they wholeheartedly condemn what he is doing, which means the PT's were the ones in the wrong by treating ALL authority as universally corrupt. The narrative itself is admitting to its flaws in storytelling prior to Royal's release. Never once did it provide a counter-argument. And indeed, Vanilla P5 was highly flawed with its presentation of authority as inherently villainous.
The PT's, personally, do not feel comfortable living under his influence. And I would not either. We are all fallible, including him, and power will often corrupt. That is his only flaw, being human. Neither what he does and why he does it are wrong.
I 101% side with him.
1:10 Someone should try telling that to Atlus, seeing as they still haven't relented on disabling the share button. Not that them doing so was ever actually about spoilers but they no longer have that excuse.
Absolutely agreed with your take on what makes him a villain. It's great that Maruki is a nice guy and has good relationships with the Phantom Thieves, but no one should be comfortable with anyone having full control of their lives and experiences! That's wild!
Also he's a terrible therapist lol, which makes sense since he's really more of a researcher
Hoooooleeee, where to start with this...
Before anything, love the video and your point of view. Never really thought of looking at Maruki as a full-blown villain, and your argument is solid.
However, to me he is still an antagonist. In my opinion, a full-blown villain is a character that is either very selfish, self-centered and does not care for the suffering they bring so long as they are able to bring their goals to fruition, or they love the suffering they bring to all persons that interact with them. Maruki simply has a tunnel vision for his goal, trying to bring an end to suffering, not being able to see that this simply clashes with the ideals of freedom and individuality the Phantom Thieves represent. He does not really do it out of malice or selfish gain, but because he really cares for people. Yes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but to me this is more of the tunnel vision he has, not accepting the help or point of view of others.
I see Maruki as an antagonist, that could have turned into a full-blown villain at some point. That much power surely would have corrupted him at any point, but the Phantom Thieves, in a way, also saved him from himself.
Would recommend you make the title and thumbnail a bit less filled with spoilers, but I’m glad videos on this fantastic character are still being made!
Billy kametz rest in peace🕊️ he was the greatest voice actor ever!😢❤
The special in memory for Billy is so sweet. Gone to soon.
Glad you got your channel back, Kamen. I reported it to TH-cam and left a note explaining what had happened to let them know you weren’t the one responsible since it upset me to see all your hard work potentially get lost to time thanks to a scummy crook.
He dint. The hacker simply put the video back
@@pedrorosa9893 Nah, TH-cam put it back.
Personally i think Maruki is one of the only villains/antagonists in any video game media that could be good for society given before he has his powers and after he lost to the phantom thieves tho thats just me, also it would be interesting to hear u talk about Strega from persona 3