How to fix lifting binding on a Martin acoustic guitar.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.พ. 2023
- Martin Acoustics are very well known of having issues with binding that will lift or separate from the body. There are many ways to do this job and how much lift is very much dependent of repair procedure. In any case, here is how I go about binding repair.
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I wanted to say thank you for sharing this video. I learned how to fix the binding on my Martin acoustic by watching this. I just repaired it and so far, so good. Thanks again bro, Jimmy F.
Thank you so much for watching. I'm glad it helped.
Thank you for the video. Just discovered both bottom bindings have given way on my D16. Was little freaked out by it initially but your video stilled my beating heart. Thanks again! :-)
My pleasure, thanks for watching! Any sort of damage is difficult to accept, but binding is a fairly straightforward job, so breathe easy.
Well done, I have 3 Martins and all 3 have had binding issues.
Thanks! Hopefully, they are good now.
Same as the Guilds - the US made ones at least.
That's terrible for a Company like Martin, my 2 are still OK but their Always back in their case after playing, every 2 weeks I let them sit on a bed to 'breath' for 2 or 3 hours, then back in the case, never had any problems 😊😊😊
Thank you for this video! I too was freaked out when i saw my binding was loose but you put my mind at ease. Should be a simple enough fix. Thanks again!
You are welcome! Thanks for watching. It is a pretty straight forward repair. Hope you can get it sorted.
Doing this today!You rock! Liked and subscribed :)
Thanks! Good luck.
Embarrassing for a company as big as Martin to let this happen still.
Just noticed the back binding on my HD28 Custom Shop is staring to separate on the back. Fun fun. Great video.
I honestly don't understand the regularity of the issue. Thanks so much for watching. Hope you get it sorted.
@strumwoodguitars thanks. It's going to a luthier this week to get fixed
I have a 2005 D-42 that a small section it the binding is starting to lift. This was very helpful. Thanks.
Oh no, but im glad it helped. Thanks for watching.
My Martin had the same issue. I used the same process and it turned out very nice.
Awesome! Yeah it's quite common
Thanks for posting
My 00028 has the same issues
I was afraid to expedite
A repair
Until I watched your video
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾✌🏼🏴
Awesome! Thanks. Hope it worked!
Nice work
Thank you. Appreciate that.
Thank you, just found this on the bottom of my custom Martin cut away, not too bad say three inches. Always keep a humidifier in the case but the temp varies and the humididtThank you, just found this on the bottom of my custom Martin cut away, not too bad say three inches. Always keep a humidifier in the case but the temp varies and the humididt
Yeah it seems to just happen as much as one tries to avoid it. Pretty wild.
Great work. A tip that I have used for decades on taping sensitive painted areas. 1. On one end fold over a few tape pieces you use at the very as you are applying to the edge binding. You do not need to do all, just one or two at the start. 2. Put each subsequent piece overlapped over the first two pieces that have the lead flaps, overlapped maybe an 1/8”, so that when it comes time to peel off all the tape it will automatically be adhered to the first one or two starter pieces. 3. Most important, to me at least, pull at an angle, and not perpendicular to the binding. The lift of your pull does not need to be aggressive. In other words do not pull straight up, use a soft angle.
Thanks for that! It makes so much sense. I have more in shop so I will try that on the next one.
It's so crazy that Martin put out so many guitars with this issue. It's happening on my D18..
Yeah, it's certainly a common thing.
Can you provide links to the glue and tape that you used?
What kind of tape is that? Also did you heat the top part? I only saw you heat the middle. How long did you leave the tape on also? It turned out awesome.
Thanks so much! Its brown binding tape from Stewmac. I just heat the parts of binding that don't fit in the slot on its own power. I keep it moving but try to not get anything but the binding warm. Once taped, I leave it on overnight.
Had this issue on a 1961 D-28.Both top bindings and one side of the back had popped loose. The problem is shrinkage. The answer is more length of binding. Talked to several repair guys I knew, and they recommended removing the binding all the way to the neck joint, and then attempt to pull out the extra inch or so of binding that is under the neck joint. When I asked them how to loosen it, they only said to try and slide a feeler gauge under the binding to break the glue bond. To remove the binding up to the neck, I used a razor blade to cut through the lacquer both on the top and the sides to avoid chipping the lacquer. It was fairly easy at that point to remove the binding up to the neck.On the first side i got lucky and was able to slide the binding out without too much trouble. On the other side of the neck horn, it would not come loose. I remembered reading that Martin had used Duco Cement, or airplane glue for years to fasten the bindings. This guitar had suffered some poor care, and that is the only reason it had this issue. Duco Cement really worked, as I was discovering on the side of the neck where the binding would not come out. Duco Cement is basically thickened lacquer, so I decided that the best way to loosen it would be lacquer thinner. The trick was how to place lacquer thinner only behind the binding, and only a few very controlled drops. I used a short piece of vinyl tubing, which does not react with lacquer thinner, and screwed a hypodermic needle into the end of the tubing. With a little practice, it was easy to hold my finger on the end of the tube, and release it ever so slightly, to get a one drop at a time flow of lacquer thinner. If I ever do this again, I will purchase a glass syringe, as that would be easier to manipulate. I positioned the needle right behind the binding where it disappeared behind the neck horn. Two drops and it slid right out. Now I had the extra length I needed. Two comments here, one, I was advised not to scrape the wood fibers of the back of the binding, because that would give the hide glue something to grab. Also, I knew that if I heated up plastic to stretch it, and then forced it into place, it would only be a matter of time until nature took its course and the binding shrunk back to its original length. The repair would be under tension from the time it was done, until that tension could finally be released, recreating the problem. That is why I did the extra work to get the extra length, so the binding could be glued back in a relaxed state, without tension. That chunk you had to replace is the natural result of the material returning to its original size. Also, running a heat gun over a lacquer finish can melt the lacquer or scorch it. I used the same binding tape to glue them back into place. I would recommend cutting a form that matches the curve at the waist, and then clamping that over the tape. to make sure the binding goes all the way into the curve. The outside bends were fine with just the tape. Afterwards, I removed the tape, and cleaned up the squeeze out. I used an artist brush with some thinned brushing lacquer to touch up the razor cuts and seal the joints.
That is an incredibly thorough approach. If it were my guitar, I would probably do the same.
Ι don't have a Martin but I have a Guild JF-55 with a similar problem - the binding on top as well as that of the neck started cracking with bits falling off just a couple of years after i bought it brand new. I kept gluing it back and seems to be stabilized after 25 years since the problem appeared, although i didn't do the neatest job. It is funny that this issue does not appear on cheaper guitars with laminate back and sides, of which I had several in the past and i still have two of them.
True. Those guitars are a laminate, but the real hero of durability is the polyurethane finish. It sort of seals the guitar together. They generally don't get humidity cracks either.
I have a d28 authentic 1937 aged that the exact same thing happened on. Martin refused the warranty service on it as they said it was due to high humidity. Your video stated that it was usually due to low humidity. I find that kind of ironic. I'm going to try to use your technique to fix it myself. Wish me luck and thank you for the video.
Hope it worked! A lot of martin repair shops have stopped accepting this repair. It's a common one.
It is absolutely ridiculous that Martin hasn't addressed this issue yet. I have never seen Guild, Yamaha, Taylor, or even Gibson acoustics with such an issue. It looks like all Martins made in the last decade with plastic binding will eventually experience this. You'd have to purchase a prohibitively expensive Modern Deluxe series to avoid this issue, as wood binding is used for such guitars.
Any idea if Martin resolved this issue? Are you seeing Martins made in the last two years with this issue as well?
Great repair, by the way!
I have a 2021 martin with same issues and I am now working on restoring a near mint gibson 1954 ES-125 I could use some guidance and suggestions on what glue I should use anyone interested in helping me out please let me know the back and front of the guitar are off and along with the single piece of binding it's all perfect in my view the kefering and no cracks basically need to glue the whole thing back together but still would like someone to help me figure out cheap methods to clamp it and secure it. I don't have many tools. Unfortunately, anyone out there, please let me know if you're interested. I'll send you pictures
I got Guild (USA made some 30 years now)that had this issue…I had to redo (the tape that I used messed up the finish so…😂)
Thank you! I actually have seen some older Gibsons with the issue. I've also seen recent martins suggesting nothing has changed.
You said it all!
I'm a repair man in South Korea also struggling with tons of this kind of issue. At least over 50 Martin guitars during last winter I guess. Good to know that I solve the problem in almost the same way.
Great minds. Glad you are having success with them also.
What kind of tape was he using (brand wise?)
Pretty guitar. I had a D42 Custom Shop I ordered in 2004. It was the prettiest Martin for sure.. as in addition to the good looks of a standard D42 I ordered it with my details:
Slight V neck..select most figured Madagascar Rosewood Body..tightest grain Adirondack top and Abalone on the actual face edge of the fingerboard and headstock
which I had seen in a Custom Shop catalog in the early 1990's but never on a live guitar.. So there is one really nice looking D42 Custom out there.
For me it flopped.. as I asked for.."the most responsive bracing"..but regular scalloped bracing was used. That together with that tight grained Adirondack
was not as lively as I would have liked. If I would do it again right now I would order everything the same but with Authentic Bracing and construction but with
Super glue on plastic bindings and instead of D42 it would be an old 1930's style 0042 with short scale neck.
I sold that and used the $ to get a Lowden 050 Sitka/Koa the type two (more inlay but still plain) and a painting.
Right now I have a Martin D28A Authentic 1941(2013) which is really responsive with a similar neck to the Custom but it's at the factory with this binding issue. : )
It is very pretty, yes. Wouldn't complain if it was mine. Too bad on your custom. They are gorgeous. Hope everything is back to normal for you when it comes back.
I have a 2015 Martin 000-18. I noticed just the other day that this is happening at the waist at all 4 sides, front and back. I would guess it has something to do with the build. I have about a dozen other acoustics, all stored in the same room, in their cases, and in a humidified room. This is the only guitar that had an issue, and given that it happens to all 4 edges makes me think it's the materials used or the construction. I saw another video showing a binding repair and that guy suggested Titebond isn't a good choice for plastic to wood since it's strictly a wood glue. It seems your experience suggests otherwise.
It's incredibly common. It's the materials used with Martin's it seems. You are certainly doing the best thing by having the guitars in case, in a humidified room. As far as the glue, I have had no issues with the repair coming undone. I've tried canopy glue, super glue, acetone, etc and I just personally like working with titebond. Easy, cleans up well and great results. It's certainly not the only way.
Is fish glue a suitable adhesive for this repair?
I thought titebond ll was a wood glue!? If so, how long will it stick to the plastic binding? Thx. I find few glues stick to plastic for long as did Martin, Gibson and Guild obviously.
It is branded as a wood glue. It's actually a polyurethane which allows for bonding of many materials other than wood. Metals, ceramics, and some plastics. Works well.
I have two 2014 Martin guitars that I just noticed have the issue. A custom shop 0-45 and OM-45. A surprise given the prices of the guitars.
Good video.
I think I may need to first test tape to make sure it won't cause an issue with the finish. Guess I need to get a heat gun.
Any idea how hot the gun has to be? Would a hair dryer work?
It is common for sure. I'm not certain the temperature but a hair dryer will work as will any heat gun. Biggest thing is to keep it moving. If you hold the heat source in one spot for too long, it can melt the binding and also potentially cause cracks in the body.
@@strumwoodguitars Will the heated stretched binding want to preshrink ?
@@merseybeat1963 It won't necessarily pre-shrink but it won't want to move. The heat really just makes it pliable. Or to what I heat it to. I guess if it was too hot it would certainly shrink.
thanks for the video! frankly ridiculous that this is a problem on such a nice guitar!!!
Thank you and I fully agree.
This has repeatedly happened to my 000 Martin guitar...ive taken it to the warranty shop. They repaired it a couple times but they don't want to do it again so I think I'll do it myself. I was thinking of pulling all the binding off the body and adding a maple wood binding. What are you thoughts?
Well, that's a shame. It's a big job to do a rebinding. Removing, shaping, thickness sanding, some sort of finish work. It certainly has its advantages, though. If you are ok with all of that then I would say go for it.
I can't seem to find the binding tape. Is there an accessible alternative you would suggest?
Stewmac sells brown binding tape. In a couple different widths depending on the job needed. I highly recommend.
Titebond II with ABS binding ? Usually I use thicker CA glue.
Yup you certainly can. I used to do that on every repair. The reason why I go with Titebond II is due to it's strength against humidity. Also allows for some elasticity vs CA. I've just had much better results.
Every time I use tape to repair binding, the tape distorts the finish and I end up having to level sand and buff to repair where the tape pulled on the finish. How do you avoid this?
Well first off, I NEVER use tape if it's an older vintage instrument. The lacquer will be very fragile and perhaps even open pores which will allow for blushing and discoloration. You also should be using a low-tack tape to help avoid this. Lastly, if you had any doubts on applying tape to a guitar, stick it to your shirt a couple of times to lower the adhesion. Hopefully that helps!
On my d35 I can feel my binding beginning to lift in one spot the size is about an inch in length. Im scared to let anyone touch it and definitely wont do it myself. Its not separated but isnt smooth. Would the repair be the same? What other methods should i expect or avoid when taking this to get fixed?
For the most part it should be the same repair. It has movement which is why you can start to feel it. The job is a standard fix. Though It depends on what version of a repair shop you take it to for what they will actually do. I would ask for examples. Hope it goes smoothly!
I can repair the glue on the Martin edge strips without damage, especially those old pianos with a certain year of paint that are relatively fragile. As long as you sand off anything, it has damaged a lot
Awesome. Removing old finish is key.
Have you ever pulled off the binding tape on one of these jobs and there was a chemical reaction between the tape and lacquer? It's happened to me a few times and it's steered me away from approaching it this way, which sucks because this is definitely the least time consuming way to go about it. Maybe I got an extra funky batch of binding tape? But the extra hours of unpaid finish work has left me scarred for life.
I haven't had that issue. Thankfully. I would not go this approach on a vintage instrument where the lacquer is clearly in a flaked fragile state. That would cause a reaction. Which makes the extra unpaid finish work even harder to swallow.
I would have liked to see the actual patch
Yeah, I forgot to record it. I'll do some more binding work.
How much would you take for such a service? 😅
Nice video. The thumbnail should have shown a reciprocating saw though.
Would have indicated my feelings. Haha
Just repaired my d35. Moved from a hot and humid environment to a cooler dryer one. Took 2 years for my guitars to transition. All is good.
Well, that's good. I always recommend stable and consistent (whatever that may be) temperature. The guitars will shift as they need to and after being setup, should stay in that state.
I sold my 3 Martins and landed on Taylor guitars. It's discouraging that the Martin guitar Co. has allowed this to be an issue.
True. It's been an issue for many years. Enjoy your new guitars!
Bottom back binding on my HD-28V is separating after 6 years. I am the original owner so I assume it is covered by Martin's warranty. Still a great guitar.
They are certainly great guitars. And the binding is cosmetic for the most part. Hope they do cover it for you.
@@strumwoodguitars Got it fixed in Muscle Shoals, Alabama. Since I was the original owner it was fixed at no charge. 😁
@@DesertRat332 That is awesome. Glad to hear that!
the heat gun won't bubble the nitro? also will duco cement work with plastic binding?
It would damage the nitro if you hold it on one spot. Always keep it moving and on low heat and you should be fine.
I hope you didn't use duco on a guitar, it's bad for the finish.
I also use the brown binding tape but I found that it can pull wrinkles into the finish of the guitar. How do you avoid this issue?
I'm not certain. I've never run into issues, thankfully. I don't use any tape on a vintage instrument. That I can see wrinkling or pulling the finish. I always make sure to clean off all the glue before adding tape. And most of the time, I will dab the tape on my shirt or apron a couple of times to lower the tack level.
@@strumwoodguitars would you say a 1978 Martin was vintage, and if you don't use binding tape how do you bind the 'binding' to keep it in place ? cheers Tom
Wish I had seen this first , I had my buddy fix my D 35
Hope that it went well!
Both of my martins have done this
Hopefully, you got them sorted. It is astonishing how often this occurs.
Good work bro.. I have a question about heat Gun :
1- could it become risky and cause the loose of the inside braces ?
2- I have 20 years old Yamaha classical guitar and its finish go from clear to cloudy could the heat Gun solve it and restore the clear look again ?
Thank you Bro
Thank you. 1- you would have to hold the heat gun for some time to loosen the glue on the braces. The key is to never stop moving the gun. Too much heat is not good.
And 2- It's tough to know what's the approach without seeing it. But I assume it won't do much. Sometimes naphtha (or light fluid) does a great job of removing cloudiness.
@@strumwoodguitars could the hair dryer become more safe ? with moving in circles
@sagrsalem6340 I'm not certain, they are very similar heat sources. Never noticed a big difference between the two.
@@strumwoodguitars Thank you So much for Reply
My 2017 D18 just started having this problem, back binding at the lower curve, about 2 inches so far. I'm gonna leave it alone for now and hope it doesn't get (much) worse. At least I got it used for under 2k. But seriously, how can this be a problem for a high end manufacturer?
Good deal or not, I do agree that it is odd that it is such a common issue with Martins. Hope it holds for you.
Yup, same thing on my 2017 (mfg 2015) HD-28V. I paid 4k for it and would buy it again. But I agree that Martins shouldn't do this. I have a Yamaha FG-110 that I bought back in 1975. I lived in the Mojave desert for years and didn't even bother to humidify it. No cracks, no binding issues.
Same with my D-35 2011! I have a 2003 Yamaha DW7 with no kind of issues so far!
Thanks for the content ..What kind of glue is best here? ... I've heard many different references to glue in this situation from stewmacs white super and fish glue... titebond or tightbond ?? does it set fast or leave plenty of time for newb speed? lol
Honestly, all of those will work. It's what you are comfortable with. You will still have to move fairly quick but most of those will allow for newb speed. My choice is titebond 90% of the time.
@@strumwoodguitars perfect I ordered titebond III ... Thanks.. I'm looking forward to giving it a go
can the blue painting tape be used?
It could be used. Though it wouldn't be my first choice. The difference here is that it isn't as tacky. In this example, it won't allow for as much tension to act as a clamp when gluing.
I get my Martin binding fixed by luthier but my sweat takes it out every time, and the binding shrinks , so it must be cut :(
Well that's unfortunate. I do know of a couple people that seal the binding channel with lacquer or super glue to create another level of protection.
A high price guitar and being a industry pioneer, such kind of issues are not acceptable and these issues are now more visible as i seen many vedios. Martin should look into.
True, but then I also need the work. 😄
@@strumwoodguitars true
Allowing the humidity levels to drop to far is what causes this issue , not Martins build
I could'nt agree more, but Martin was already aware of that issue when I visited the factory 2013. But still.
@@strumwoodguitars and thank the lord for it
I sold my Martin and bought a Blueridge br280 if it's not this then it's the neck angle. I'm done with martin saving up for a Gallagher or Huss and Dalton.
Well, this could happen to any guitar model, but those are beautiful guitars at the finish line!
@@strumwoodguitars dude my Blueridge would smoke most Martins.
@@ryanbloom1738Then you woke up….
The Modern Deluxe Martin they used wood binding now maple
Less movement and it also looks awesome!
Every Martin I own has this problem, no other guitars out of 32 acoustics. 😮
I don't really understand why that is.
@@strumwoodguitars: I believe it is due to the use of liquid (chemical) polishes.
I hold the same to be true for shrinking pick guards.
But after cooling the plastic will shrink again and the binding will get loose in several weeks again, no?
So it happened to my Martin 000-28 E.C. - Martin service repaired it, but some month later I can see first gaps again.
A D-42 is an even more expensive guitar and I'm really shocked that ist issue is "a common issue" for a guitar more than 5.000 bugs!
Looks like Martin is very poor quality on this😞
Why they use plastics and not wood bindings?
In my experience, It shouldn't lift in the area repaired. Of course, technically it could if not careful. I have also seen other parts of the binding lift after.
This shouldn't happen to a Martin at all for their price. Even though they're not bench made anymore their quality should still be there!
Yeah I agree.
Not sure I want to buy a martin hd 28 now. I was going to make payments. Maybe a gibson J45?
Well they are beautiful guitars. If that's the model you want. All guitars can occur issues if not taken care of.
How about a luthier built Yamaha LL26?
@freebornjohn6876 This is the procedure I do for most jobs. The biggest thing is testing binding material to wood adhesion.
I bought a Gibson J-35. Mine's a cannon, the volume and punch beats a D-18 and D-28 The bracing in a J-35 is different to that of a J-45, and so is the bridge.
Excellent ! I wondered about the glue type ? Nothing special for plastic to wood ? Hopefully, I never need this repair as I keep the humidity above 40 percent even in winter.
Thanks! Yeah, there are a couple types of glue I use. I generally always use titebond II, but im currently doing another binding job and using super glue. It depends on the situation. Which by the sounds of things you won't have to deal with.
@@strumwoodguitars Superglue and nitrocellulose guitar finishes? That's high risk!
I’ve never had this issue with any of my acoustics. But none of them are made by Martin. First rate repair by the way.
It oddly seems to be that way. Thanks for the kind words.
This isn't a humidity or temperature issue. It's a Martin management issue. "Environmentally Friendly Glue" doesn't work - it causes the binding to shrink and come unglued. I've seen 75 year-old Martins without this issue. My 2016 Custom Shop OM has the back binding coming off. Collings guitars don't have this issue but then again they aren't run by lawyers and bean counters.
I think it's somewhere in the middle. Not every single guitar (Martin) will have this issue, but a good portion will.
I've long suspected that Martin is using some sort of 'ecocrap' glue and maybe plastic - but the company isn't going to admit it, of course. I had a 2016 D-18 where the binding came adrift. After regluing I sold it, and I have to say that it's put me off buying another Martin.
@@gam1471 For my next acoustic guitar I'm upgrading to another Collings. I had one and like a fool sold it.
best way to avoid martin binding issue, buy wood binding martin guitar, but you need to pay more than the same standard model.
It also looks great! 👌🏻
@@strumwoodguitars Why use plastic anyway? I own a Guild GAD-50, and the wood binding looks beautiful. It's a 19 year old guitar, and the binding's not coming off!
And when you send it back to Martin they try to charge you
Sick of my Martin just problem after problem
Though I don't agree with, I understand the charge. It is considered humidity damage which is not covered under warranty.
That's BS! I have a Yamaha FG-110 I bought in 1975. It spent a couple of decades in the Mojave desert before I ever bothered to humidify it. No cracks, no separation issues. I keep Boveda humidpaks in my Martin case all the time. My HD-28V is having binding separation issues after 6-7 years. 😡
Use mute and CC if you don't want listen to annoying noises. Otherwise good info.
Damn, never seen binding come off.
You must not have a Martin. 🤣 It's not an every guitar issue. Just depends on the guitars environment settings.
@@strumwoodguitars I don’t own Martins, but I have a boatload of Gibsons and have never seen this. My hygrometer usually reads 48%. And I humidify my guitars..
If I owned a $10,000 guitar the f**king binding had better not shrink or lift.
I totally agree. Seems like a reasonable request.
If have the issue on an $8K Martin. Yes. Surprising.
amd then it happens again next year or the year after. ugh
How to fix lifting binding on a Martin acoustic guitar? Bring it to a Martin certified repair shop and pay nothing.
Hopefully. This is typically considered neglect but I've had a couple covered over the years.
The martin so called repair person in my area, made sure he sanded off a little finish on the back side of the guitar while fixing the binding thank god its just a d 41 and not a nice guitar like a mitchell guitar ,Maybe the martin repair guys should watch your video, My dad is old school .if you can't do it right don't do it at all. The problem with most people now a days nobody can do anything right .
"Thank God it's just a D-41"
What an imbicilic comment. Thank God it was made by an idiot!
Thank you for this video. Here’s another reason for me not to buy a Martin guitar.
Thanks. The guitar is still solid. Just maybe not always cosmetically.
Is the Martin company doing anything to sort this out? This shouldn't be happening. Has the company started using a different type of plastic or glue, for example - does anyone know?
Not since the beginning. Lol. I'm not sure why this is still an issue after so many years.
So much anxiety watching you pulling that tape off cold.
Valid. Lol. But im actually pulling up rather than out and I have yet had a single issue with that. But perhaps I try a new approach. Thanks for the thought there.
If it works for you, I cannot second guess your process. For my own care and from experience painting edges of windows I pull at an angle.
There is no excuse for the binding problem. Martin needs to pay people for this. Class action suit?
Yeah, I'm not sure why it is so common.
How to fix binding. Dont use crappy shitty ivoroid binding. No plastic please.
Certainly a good start!
Nice video, but please lose the music!
Thanks. I only do it because listening to sanding can only go for so long. Haha.
Amazing, a $10000 guitar with such cheap plastic binding. I’d never buy Martin.
It is pretty crazy. Keeps me busy though.