yes. i used following strategy: disable ego, choose AFR13 and find the rich spot. then correct the VE and find the Rich spot again. You end near the OEM Values. Stable Idle and good F/C.
@@Pizzaschnitzer So disable UEGO correction, pick an AFR, change the angle in the tables until it gets richer, change back the VE , then change the angle again until you reach the AFR and smoothness you want at idle? I'm trying to tune my 2JZ idle right now while running big cams and I think my injection angle not being set properly is giving me a hard time.
@@KillJD with nasty cams you are probably not able to run as lean as you want in idle cause of the overlap. Try little richer. The internal afr is in the cylinder, not in the exhaust. Think about that
Lucky for me the Holley EFI software has a 2d 16x16 table for setting the Injection End Angle. I just built a super basic MAP vs RPM table using CVI for cold start and idle and OVI for anything above 1600rpm. Technically the high rpm OVI strategy starts spraying into the back of a closed valve but it just continues to spray while it is open. Given my cam specs I'm targeting 300* and 450*. If I wanted to get fancy I could optimize the 16x16 table for various loads and rpm and use an advanced table to offset the injector end angle based on coolant temp or various other sensor inputs. Honestly anything beyond what I've set up already is over my head haha.
Nice one Aaron. You're certainly getting into the deep and gritty with the tuning strategies. That was a very interesting video. O.V.I definitely seemed to produce the smoothest idle, and it was visibly noticeable in the video, also the idle speed sounded highest with O.V.I too👍🇦🇺
Thanks Simon. I am particularly interested in the claimed improvement of in cylinder cooling and knock threshold. How to test that though is a bit tricky
Thanks for sharing. I recently added a FT600 to my turbo Harley with cam sync. My experiance so far is open has worked best, gives me me a more stable idle, it did start better with a closed valve. Don't forget your cam specs are more than likely start with @.050 lift so the open and close events are a bit longer. I'm right at 130--130 BTDC ending my inj cycle. what ever you end up using you will end up spraying on a closed vale when the duty cycle reaches 75% and above, at that point it pretty much a constant stream of fuel.
You have the data backwards as does Andy W in his video. The number in megasquirt for injector angle is degrees before top dead center. Numbers in the 200’s would be OVI, numbers over 380ish would be CVI.
Injector angle made big difference to HC and CO emissions on idle for my SBC LT4 V8 engine. I had problem with emission test before but after tuning injector angles it passed test nicely. I have big injectors and pulse width on idle is ~1,7ms. Best injection end angle for my engine was about ~370-380 degrees ATDC
Injector positioning in the head vs further up the runners would have an effect on what the optimal injector timing should be. How would you go about factoring in injector timing with that arrangement?
There is probably some maths or rule of thumb available to estimate the injection time delay as a function of RPM. I would verify anything with a real world testing.
Hi, very interesting. Did you do one test for all data or a few? I am at the beginning of testing injector timing. My engine doesnt runs very hot, but i use tropic thermostat probe and fan to avoid much heat, so the fan would run early if the engine is idling around a few minutes. Guess i will have to unplug the fan?!
I have only tested on my 240Z. The engine temperature contributes less moreso it is the valve temperature from the combustion in the cylinder which assists with closed valve injection vapourisation. I would not unplug your cooling fan.
Чтобы лучше понять максимального КПД сгорания смеси, то вам нужен трех-четырех-пяти компонентый газоанализатор [CO, CH4, O2] и [NH3, H2S]. Самый важный параметр эффективности и более полной сгорании это максимально низкие показания CH4 при одиннаковой лямбде, одиннаковом угле опережения зажигания. Низкие показания CH4 характеризуют, что топливо-воздушная смесь хорошо перемешалась и максимально эффективно сгорела. To better understand the maximum combustion efficiency of the mixture, you need a three-four-five component gas analyzer [CO, CH4, O2] and [NH3, H2S]. The most important parameter for efficiency and more complete combustion is the lowest possible CH4 at the same lambda, igniting timing.
More great stuff Aaron, but... Do you need me to send you a degree wheel that you can bolt to your crank pulley so you can spend a few hours degreeing your cam? Have a dial indicator? Its really no big deal and quite informative - fun to see when things happen during each cycle and how you can vary events by advancing or retarding. Then you won't be left wondering...and you can verify TDC while you are at it!
Yeah I figured you gain 10% so 225 isn't very bad but yeah that plug could be killing your top and power who knows you could have another 10 horsepower thank you for the video and your time
Strange. Research by yamaha showed that open valve injection (OVI) had more unstable combustion than CVI. google: The Influence of Port Fuel Injection on Combustion Stability Edit: I realized you have it backwards. Open valve and closed.
Have you experimented with injection timing/angle? Do you have a strategy that works? Let us know your thoughts with a comment!
yes. i used following strategy: disable ego, choose AFR13 and find the rich spot. then correct the VE and find the Rich spot again. You end near the OEM Values. Stable Idle and good F/C.
@@Pizzaschnitzer So disable UEGO correction, pick an AFR, change the angle in the tables until it gets richer, change back the VE , then change the angle again until you reach the AFR and smoothness you want at idle? I'm trying to tune my 2JZ idle right now while running big cams and I think my injection angle not being set properly is giving me a hard time.
@@KillJD the same as I said. Find the rich point. If you look in OEM tables, you will see pretty the same values.
@@KillJD with nasty cams you are probably not able to run as lean as you want in idle cause of the overlap. Try little richer. The internal afr is in the cylinder, not in the exhaust. Think about that
Lucky for me the Holley EFI software has a 2d 16x16 table for setting the Injection End Angle. I just built a super basic MAP vs RPM table using CVI for cold start and idle and OVI for anything above 1600rpm. Technically the high rpm OVI strategy starts spraying into the back of a closed valve but it just continues to spray while it is open. Given my cam specs I'm targeting 300* and 450*. If I wanted to get fancy I could optimize the 16x16 table for various loads and rpm and use an advanced table to offset the injector end angle based on coolant temp or various other sensor inputs. Honestly anything beyond what I've set up already is over my head haha.
Great test, interesting results, fantastic transfer of knowledge. Thanks for taking the time to explain everything.
Cheers!
Thnaks you have opened my brain! Am tuning my 125cc and my timing was flat at 375. Very short stroke shorter than F1 :P
Nice one Aaron. You're certainly getting into the deep and gritty with the tuning strategies. That was a very interesting video. O.V.I definitely seemed to produce the smoothest idle, and it was visibly noticeable in the video, also the idle speed sounded highest with O.V.I too👍🇦🇺
Thanks Simon. I am particularly interested in the claimed improvement of in cylinder cooling and knock threshold. How to test that though is a bit tricky
Thanks for sharing. I recently added a FT600 to my turbo Harley with cam sync. My experiance so far is open has worked best, gives me me a more stable idle, it did start better with a closed valve.
Don't forget your cam specs are more than likely start with @.050 lift so the open and close events are a bit longer. I'm right at 130--130 BTDC ending my inj cycle. what ever you end up using you will end up spraying on a closed vale when the duty cycle reaches 75% and above, at that point it pretty much a constant stream of fuel.
Thanks for sharing Jim!
You have the data backwards as does Andy W in his video. The number in megasquirt for injector angle is degrees before top dead center. Numbers in the 200’s would be OVI, numbers over 380ish would be CVI.
from the ts software/megasquirt: the timing is measured with respect to the spark event. he is right.
Excellent Information! Thankyou very much for your work and share! i love the detail. Abo highly recommendet! THX🤩
I like what you're doing, and the way that you're going about it. S0 much so that I would be happy to donate a set of injectors to your project.
Injector angle made big difference to HC and CO emissions on idle for my SBC LT4 V8 engine. I had problem with emission test before but after tuning injector angles it passed test nicely. I have big injectors and pulse width on idle is ~1,7ms. Best injection end angle for my engine was about ~370-380 degrees ATDC
Injector positioning in the head vs further up the runners would have an effect on what the optimal injector timing should be. How would you go about factoring in injector timing with that arrangement?
There is probably some maths or rule of thumb available to estimate the injection time delay as a function of RPM. I would verify anything with a real world testing.
Great video thank you
Very welcome
Hi, very interesting. Did you do one test for all data or a few? I am at the beginning of testing injector timing. My engine doesnt runs very hot, but i use tropic thermostat probe and fan to avoid much heat, so the fan would run early if the engine is idling around a few minutes. Guess i will have to unplug the fan?!
I have only tested on my 240Z. The engine temperature contributes less moreso it is the valve temperature from the combustion in the cylinder which assists with closed valve injection vapourisation.
I would not unplug your cooling fan.
hey man can you help me understand why there are still "most vacum" past 540 degree ?
Чтобы лучше понять максимального КПД сгорания смеси, то вам нужен трех-четырех-пяти компонентый газоанализатор [CO, CH4, O2] и [NH3, H2S]. Самый важный параметр эффективности и более полной сгорании это максимально низкие показания CH4 при одиннаковой лямбде, одиннаковом угле опережения зажигания.
Низкие показания CH4 характеризуют, что топливо-воздушная смесь хорошо перемешалась и максимально эффективно сгорела.
To better understand the maximum combustion efficiency of the mixture, you need a three-four-five component gas analyzer [CO, CH4, O2] and [NH3, H2S]. The most important parameter for efficiency and more complete combustion is the lowest possible CH4 at the same lambda, igniting timing.
22ms pw at idle! My engine is around 2!
More great stuff Aaron, but...
Do you need me to send you a degree wheel that you can bolt to your crank pulley so you can spend a few hours degreeing your cam? Have a dial indicator? Its really no big deal and quite informative - fun to see when things happen during each cycle and how you can vary events by advancing or retarding. Then you won't be left wondering...and you can verify TDC while you are at it!
Thanks for your offer Keith. I have a degree wheel on my bench ready to use soon. I am keen to know where TDC is.
Did it ultimately have effect on your VE table?
guess it did, it had on mine. ;-)
@@alessandromeyer4888yea dropped 10 ve values on idle
Yeah I figured you gain 10% so 225 isn't very bad but yeah that plug could be killing your top and power who knows you could have another 10 horsepower thank you for the video and your time
Cheers James!
Strange. Research by yamaha showed that open valve injection (OVI) had more unstable combustion than CVI.
google: The Influence of Port Fuel Injection on Combustion Stability
Edit: I realized you have it backwards. Open valve and closed.