I'm a RogueTech (overhaul mod for the BattleTech PC game) player, so my BattleTech knowledge stems from that, so bare with me here... If you have the space, you could swap out the Clan ER Medium Lasers for Clan ER Small Lasers, which are almost as potent, and take the small range hit, but allowing you to drop in a Missile Targeting computer, or even Long Range targeting computer, etc, since it will give a general boost to accuracy... Perhaps even drop a hit sink for, say, an Evasion (ignore) targeting computer, also, even if it means having to perhaps cycle one of the LRM 15's every other turn... Since missiles are the primary weaponry, anything that boosts them would be worth sacrificing slightly in other areas, as I see it...
@@BigZaeon yeah, wasn't sure, only that they exist in the RogueTech mod, and I know the team behind that mod try and make it as close to TT rules and equipment, for the most part, as they can...
@@ImRuined666 While you're mostly correct, the range hit is not small and the specialist targeting computers are non-canon HBS/RogueTech additions. Personally, I'm skeptical of any heat-tracking LRM boat: Combat Vehicles just do that job far better, not least because the shorter height allows you to stay still and rain indirect fire on enemies who have no way of shooting back.
I haven't ever used the Salamander myself, but I do like the design. I can't condone ELRMs, though, they just make me sad anytime they appear. I would like to see something on the Scarabus, if you're staying on 3055. It's got a lot of attitude, and an interesting hatchet mount.
i am good with Elrms for vehicles, particular a cheap haul with speed. don't need armor as i would use it to hit targets at extreme range and scot away before counter fire. On the mech it just way to much for so little damage.
@@Marveryn Try a high speed ELRM hovercraft or VTOL, firing from the unexpected direction (their back) from a lake or seafront or down from atop a inaccessible cliff face. It makes the enemy nervous to say the least, as they never know where the incoming fire is coming from next.
Excellent overview as always! If you end up doing one for the Anubis and are looking for art to use, I actually have some fanart I've recently posted that's based on the old model but equipped with its new Light PPC loadout. It's currently just a sketch but I have plans to turn it into a quick fill-able wireframe as well.
The 6T has a typo, says 3 LRM-20s instead of 2. Also, the Targeting Computer only works with direct fire weapons, so how does it help missles getting to the target? I went with a more traditional/cheaper variant. It mounts 3 Clan LRM-20s with Artemis V, that being the only bit of Clan tech on it. It still has the 9 tons of missiles in their standard slots but now has CASE II in each location (this did require removing the Lower Arm Actuator in the Left Arm, but the endurance is worth it). An IS Light Engine and IS Endo-composite clears out the critical slots needed and replaced the standard Mediums for IS ER Mediums. Not perfect but I feel it focuses on its original mission at an improved performance and survivability.
One would think that the Salamander would have been a prime candidate for a variant featuring MML racks, given how many high profile instances of it being in close range combat have been recorded. Also, I wonder why didn’t they just move one of the LRM racks to the other arm, leaving one torso free for ammo storage? Maybe they were afraid of it being compared to the Longbow?
I think the lore reason is that the arm required special engineering so moving it would have been a big thing. So they just let mechwarriors die because it's cheaper.
The BT game needs an ammo usage priority system, since a high LRM count Mech usually runs out of critical slots in the legs and torsos fast so it needs to put ammo in the arm/s, which makes using case even more important, but that could mean you run out of ammo mid mission, so having a priority on which ammo bin location you use early can also lower the chances of an ammo explosion knocking the mech out of the fight.
@@Primearch-GGIf you're playing with Roguetech or another mod that adds ammo types you can solve the problem by placing ammo types used early in vulnerable locations. You probably won't be laying minefields late in mission, right?
@@vmonk722 I know that, but who's using mines these days? They're nerfed enough for kindergarten. And I mentioned high LRM, as in late game assault or superheavy, not early game lights.
@@Primearch-GG There's more types than just mines, right? Btw I agree that consumption priority should be something that can be changed for builds where workarounds like the suggested one aren't sufficient.
The Salamander is basically a next-generation Longbow, and nothing wrong with that. Its fairly plain and practical upgrade, if youre willing to pay for that Extralight engine. Its variants try to be different from a regular missile boat though. The Salamander PPR-5T is extremely fast for an Assault mech at 86kph. PPR-7S loses some firepower in exchange for Jump Jets and a more durable Light fusion engine. My favorite is the PPR-7T which uses uses Extended Range missiles and a C3 computer so is more true to bombard enemies instead of getting into duels. If possible I would go for an Arrow IV artillery missile system. The Salamander on the cover of a TRO 3055 book about to jump-punch a Berserker assault mech.
@@darylmolinejr.6166 That's the one. I liked it, maybe some of the bits with the sister are a bit oversimplified, but they sorta have to be since the precise terms of the Lyran and Planetary constitutions weren't things he was allowed to lay down so he had to kinda slip into broad 1776isms.
I love the salamander vs berserker art it really has a great vibe. We know that the salamander is outclassed in CQB but the posture sells that the pilot isn’t going to except defeat that easily. Its fun because adding the damage to the berserker really makes it feel like a more even fight.
"As an unbiased party" lol. Good one, Mr. Frog - a fantastic episode for this fantastically derpy boi. I love this mech quite a bit now after the performance mine experienced in my 1st Orloff Grenadiers unit this past weekend @ Games of Berkeley!
The salamander has always been mysterious to me. Ive only played the pc games and my entire experience with the salamander is seeing it in instant action mode in mercenaries 2 and i alwaus wondered whats with this secret mech thats not in the campaign? Same goes for wolf trap, rakshasa, battle hawk, grim reaper etc.
@@MechanicalFrog lol I thought the rakshasa must be the most amazing mech. Looked just like the "unknown mad cat" and I couldn't find one in game. Little did I know lol. Mercs2 was my first battletech experience.
That art of it fighting a berserker is one of my favorites too. But I never understood why two lyran mechs, built by the same company no less, would be fighting each other
FEDCOM Civil War? Both sides had plenty of each. Solaris is a good possability, too.( I don't think I would have put any money down on the Salamander, in that one).
As I was watching the video, talking about the armor, I was thinking to myself that critting the left arm blows the mech! I have taken a few of them that way!
Ah, the song of missile volleys.... one of my all time favorites ever since Sigma 6. 9 tons of ammo for 3 launchers..... Plenty to endure or be flexible. As for the variants: I find ELRM's interesting, but they are definitely niche. You get more than twice the max range, but the considerable minimum range, heavy ammo, (current) lack of ammo variety, and incompatibility with guidance aides are steep prices. I'd still pick them over Streak LRM, but I'd probably pick NLRM or LRM(C) over ELRM.
@@MechanicalFrog I'd probably relegate them to vehicular support like on a Heavy LRM carrier.... or see what I can do with modding a Kraken 3 because I'm rather predictable.
All your videos, even the ones where the mechs maybe don’t particularly catch my eye; you make them interesting, I find myself picking up my phone and reading up on them on Sarna. Keep it up sir, thank you.
Embrace the Awesomeness. Ditch the LA lrm and ammo and Frankenstein a LWR arm actuator from an 8Q on with a heavy ppc, add three heatsinks (two more fit in the engine).
A fun retrofit for the Salamander is to replace the left arm LRM launcher with a Thunderbolt 20. It gives it a long rang hole puncher and cuts down on your ammo explosion risk by virtue of having less rounds per ton. Your left arm can't explode if there's no ammo in it.
Another fun watch :-) i upgraded to the salamander from my bombardier in a long run campaign i was part of and i gotta say it was a brilliant upgrade that helped me win the whole campaign..a great mech if usd properly :-)
@MechanicalFrog One is extra tedious, turning every lrm boat into an SRM carrier, the other is "why even use a gauss rifle?" Tier. Also was apparently a bug in +clustering in BTA and RT
Like your variant except for thw Lrm 20. Should be kept to Lrm 15 for ammo reasons using rest of weight maybe for ecm and active probe so less chance of being ambushed and less c3 from enemy to worry about.....
I have that original book with all these cool mechs in it, The Salamander being one of my favorites. Soo much i was absolutely giddy when I salvaged one in RT. Where the long bow is just two massive arm replacement missile pods. This here makes good use of placement with a reasonable humanoid appearance. The MF version looks good. Should have thrown in a Timber Wolf on the MF side to even the sides. Otherwise your lance gave better than it got.
With a name like "Salamander" and a missile based loadout one would exepect there to be a Torpedo pr MML based loadout. Using Torpedos, Harjel, and some UMU's could make this a horrifying aquatic combatant.
Another great video frog... Now all i can think about is Cerberus + Salamander. Ouch. Just an FYI, the LRMs dont work with Tcomps. Also, an easy fix to the arm problem would be CASE II. Sure. It would be a bit expensive in terms of weight, but it would fix it.
I like it, and I do agree that the 7S is probably the best variant. My PPR-ISM variant is based on the 7S, but uses Clan tech for all but the engine and myomer. Its loadout is 3 Clan LRM-20s/Artemis, each launcher/w 3 tons of Clan CASE II protected ammo, and an ER Medium Pulse Laser in the CT and right arm. It retains the Jump Jets. And since Clan LRMs have no minimum range issues, it would be a threat at all ranges.
It's mech I keep thinking about getting one as I do use longbows and this well up until the 12c variant has more throw weight. It's got a great look and glad you pulled up some of it's great art. All fun stuff for a mech named for the spirit of fire who still is an amphibian.
I think the 7S is a great starting point. I would drop the JJ's and switch all three Lrm 15's to clan Lrm 15 with art. IV. This gives you some weight and room to play with. I would add a supercharger to address the loss of mobility, add two mine dispensers to dissuade enemies from closing (I would also dedicate one of the six tons of ammo to improved thunderer rounds for more mines). I removed the smaller lasers for a clan er large for a consistent fire support option, I added an ams with 24 shots and a clan ecm to help defensively, and finally, I added a C³ slave. The C³ combined with some semiguided lrms can negate both range and enemy movement modifiers, so this thing can deny ground or put some high accuracy shots on target. (or and all ammo is in the cased torso)
I do love missile boats. My favorite was an Adder/Puma w/ Artemis just littered w/ LRM. For some reason, the Adder's design feels frog like to me, so I painted her up in green and named her Artemis Clyde Frog. I'd love to try out a Salamander now though.
The Salamander is a fun niche design for sending a lot of fire at enemies. And it can survive it too, thanks to the fire-resistant ar- wait, what do you mean it doesn't have that?
LRM 20's do hit hard, but are pretty in-efficiant(sp) when it comes to weight and criticals. Thats why I like -15's. With the weight savings, add ART-IV, that way you hit with about as many as a 20 spread. As for the free'd up criticals, I dunno, maybe MOVE ALL OF THAT DAMNED AMMO OUT OF THE ARM! As for Paper( Original cover) TRO's, I've still got 2750/3050/55/57/58/60 and 67. Missing 25/26, and didn't even know about 39 till I went on Sarna.
Another excellent vid. Thank you, MechFrog. I did know the Salamander but didn’t know that much about it. I love the look. How to squeeze one into my collection…hmmm….the 5S can be used by ComStar👍
Here I was musing on how I might convert this thing if I wanted to make it better able to defend itself, and sure enough, the 6S pops up and is a pretty good facsimile for what I had in mind.
I made a salamander with 5 clan lrm 20 with 7 tons of ammo and 2 clan medium pulse lasers, 16 double heat sinks. Had to drop some ammo to make everything fit.
My take on this mech. Salamander 0Z: Weight: 80 tons BV: 1,647 Cost: 18,327,720 C-bills Movement: 4/6 Engine: 320 XL Double Heat Sinks: 13 [26] Gyro: Standard Gyro Internal: 122 (Endo-Steel) Armor: 240/247. Weapons: 3 Streak SRM6 all in the LA. 2 tons of ammo in LT and RT [CASE] 4 MRM 10's. 2 in the LT and RT. 2 tons of ammo in LT and RT [CASE] 4 Med Pulse Lasers. 2 in the LT and RT. Equipment: CASE in the LT and RT and Apollo MRM FCS in the HD. All IS equipment which is rare for me to have. lol
The Salamander does seem cool. This one feels like an upgraded Longbow! The aesthetics don't really do it for me 'though, but I can't put my finger on why. Another later IS design which I never really played with, but looks like it's worth considering now I am back in the game.
Hit him with the arm full of ammo, bomb arm! It always sort of was a problem with the LRM boats in that they tended to either have not enough ammo or they just squeezed it in anywhere it would fit like a crazy cat ladies house. They do blow up really well, but there's sort of that risk that it won't either and chances are you'll get enough of them landing on the op-for that they won't enjoy the experience
I deeply regret selling my Battletech manuals and miniatures on Ebay back in the day. But the game was very dead and I moved from my home town and had no one to play with.
Wait, the one with the 400 XL engine is the Salamander 5T? Does that mean it's the Taurians equipping them? Where the heck is the Taurian Concordat getting 400 XL fusion engines, and how would it possibly afford them?
@@MechanicalFrog Yeah, the 5T is an 80-ton 'Mech with 5 walk MP (it goes 86.4 kph on a run)-it must have a 400-rated engine, and I believe it's a 400 XL. I don't know it's a Taurian design, but that's what the T usually indicates in designations. Sadly, I haven't found a definitive list or article on what the designation codes mean (some are obvious-K is Kurita, M is Marik, L is Liao, S is Steiner, D is Davion, etc.) According to the Master Unit List, it's available to FedCom/FedSuns/Lyrans and Mercenaries, so it probably isn't actually a Taurian design, unlike other T-designated variants, but it does have a 400 XL engine.
@MechanicalFrog depends how you look at it. MWO builds tend to stray a whole lot away from the spirit of the original. The Salamander's got a goof balance of fluff and optimization imo
salamander.......good fire support if kept as a missile boat...when one of the guys decided to put a Kurita Spin on things...he replaced all the LRM-20's with MRM-30's...yes, it overheats , but...scary as short- mid range missile boat. MF version is a nice take on the original
Now this is another 'mech I used to own. It's simply nasty for an I.S. 'mech. I love its firepower, ammo load and solid armor. Did I mention I love its speed and appearance?
Might I suggest you drop the targeting computer and take the last 20 rack down to a 15 in favor of upgrading the lasers. Turn the MF Salamander into a true long range beast with an ER Large laser, or merely add more ER Medium Clan lasers. Or add some more ammo and / or cooling. I'd definitely look at Clan Double Heat Sinks as well. I use the Salamander as an alternate for the Archer (my standard fire support platform) occasionally just to throw in a curve my "fire lizard" variant will spit out infernos as a special surprise. It also makes for a nice forced shutdown tool on some maps for players who ride their heat scale a bit too much. Oh the lovely salvage it produces, once you scrape out the BBQ'ed remnants of the former operator(s). How do you like your infantry is that original, extra crispy, or just strait up blackened?
My take is a hybrid design between the 6S and 7S. Salamander ZM Tech: Inner Sphere / 3060 Config: Biped BattleMech Rules: Level 2, Standard design Mass: 80 tons Chassis: (IS) Power Plant: 320 Light Fusion Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h Running Speed: 64.8 km/h Armor Type: (IS) Standard 15T Armament: 1 Medium Laser CT 1 C3 Slave Unit HD 1 Medium Laser RA 1 SRM 4 w/ Artemis IV RA 1 LRM 15 w/ Artemis IV RT 1 Medium Laser LA 1 LRM 15 w/ Artemis IV LT 14 DHS total 1 DHS in LA and RA 2T LRM Ammo in the LT and RT 1T SRM ammo LT Case LT and RT BV 2.0 ~1675 Can survive an ammo hit and still move as fast as the original. Can lay down accurate LRM support fire until the bins run dry, then move in to finish off crippled OPFOR.
Personally I think 3055 has a lot of really jank artwork yet many of my favorite mechs come from it. The Salamander though, the price tag is brutal when you consider that an LRM carrier can put the same number of LRM's in the air for about 1/8th the price.
I've never gotten into the Salamander, and honestly the artwork in most of TR3055 doesn't do much for me. My experience has been that mobile mediums for fire support work better anyway. Give me a couple of Trebuchets and a good spotter. 🙂
"Thanks to clan sea fox" Defiance industries takes offense to this. Who do you think we are, a lowly peasant corporation like coventry? We make our own clan systems thank you very much.
I have a hard time liking this mech, the Archer and even the Catapult can give you a solid fire support option that has more flexibility, speed and in case of the catapult more agility for a fraction of the cost. The salamander is exclusively a fire support plattform in its base configuration that due to its combat role simply doesnt need that amount of armor since such an exclusive fire support unit is not suposed to fight at brawling range. Not that it can escape if it finds itselfe ambushed at short range and the 2 medium lasers arent even enough to fight off a pair of locusts. Ontop of that it has a XL engine that will make it much easier to take it out at these ranges. Its a fire support platform that can be had cheaper and more efficiently at lower weights, usually with greater flexibility and being much more defensible. Considering how fast Clan mechs for example can close the distance and how much firepower their light mechs pack, this thing will be a sitting duck for anything that manages to breach lines with little to no chance for the salamander to fight back or disengage. Honestly as a suposedly anti clan mech this is a terrible design. And thats not even considering the fast medium and heavy mechs the clans usually field. And lets not mention that in a long range battle against clan assaults the salamander is completly outgunned and way to easy to hit by those Clan LRMs, ER PPCs and Clan Gauss rifles. Its basically a super expensive LRM carrier... with the only difference being that you wont go bankrupt if your LRM carrier gets shot down. Its really not a good design or idea and fails horrible at facing its intended enemy. Ill take a Archer or Catapult over a salamander.
@@MechanicalFrog Its just tactically limited by being an assault with 3 LRM 20s and little else (besides a glaring weakspot for "insert damage here to cause massive damage" paired with an XL engine). For Clan pilots the Salamander is nothing but target practice that completly looses its bite once you get close to it, wich as i said before, is really easy for clan mechs. A Stormcrow or even a Cougar, or heck.. a dasher, will eat a salamander for breakfast while having no issues at all circumventing any other member of the lance the salamander is part of. If that clan mechs is also carrying some elementals.. bye bye salamander The only real usage i can see for the salamander would be as a garrison unit against periphery threats wich have a much tougher time closing the distance and usually cant outgun it at long range either. I just wonder what made the lyran designers go: "You know.. the clans have superior speed and superior firepower and superior accuracy.. so lets design an assault that is basically useless at close range and gets outgunned at long range!" Do the lyrans have "social" engineers ontop of social generals? XD
The Salamander is a case of "putting too many eggs in one basket". LRMs are cluster weapons and there is generally no reason to put all your LRMs in a single unit. Altough the firepower of three LRM-20 is amazing and 9 tons of ammo are great for using all sorts of special ammo, the Mech makes too many sacrifices to make this loadout possible. The Mech screams for a flanking attack. The rear armor is very thin and the Mech has no means to defend itself against attacks from behind. There are many medium Mechs that have enough speed to go around the Salamander and that also have the firepower to penetrate it´s rear armor and blow up this walking bomb in one go.
I would agree with you if this were a Clan dueling mech. But this is an Inner Sphere design intended to operate as part of a unit. It is a specialist so it's not supposed to be able to do everything. That's what your buddies are for.
@@jameshewitt5774 The reality of Inner Sphere warfare is that do not fight with the units you WOULD like to have, but those yo DO have. A Mech that is specialized to the point that it can do nothing but a single task is probably not what the troops really want or need. Such designs are usually the pet projects of some armchair strategists and marketing departments. If your faction is the Star League and you have tons of cash to burn on such projects this Mech might sound like a good idea. If you are a smaller power or a mercenary unit, you will think twice whether the Salamander is worth the huge price tag or whether an Archer ARC-4M would be a better deal.
You're right, the Targeting Computer won't help with the LRMs. I forgot. At least the ER Medium Lasers will be more accurate? :D
I'm a RogueTech (overhaul mod for the BattleTech PC game) player, so my BattleTech knowledge stems from that, so bare with me here... If you have the space, you could swap out the Clan ER Medium Lasers for Clan ER Small Lasers, which are almost as potent, and take the small range hit, but allowing you to drop in a Missile Targeting computer, or even Long Range targeting computer, etc, since it will give a general boost to accuracy... Perhaps even drop a hit sink for, say, an Evasion (ignore) targeting computer, also, even if it means having to perhaps cycle one of the LRM 15's every other turn... Since missiles are the primary weaponry, anything that boosts them would be worth sacrificing slightly in other areas, as I see it...
@@ImRuined666 those computers don't exist in the tabletop to the best of my knowledge
@@BigZaeon yeah, wasn't sure, only that they exist in the RogueTech mod, and I know the team behind that mod try and make it as close to TT rules and equipment, for the most part, as they can...
@@ImRuined666 While you're mostly correct, the range hit is not small and the specialist targeting computers are non-canon HBS/RogueTech additions.
Personally, I'm skeptical of any heat-tracking LRM boat: Combat Vehicles just do that job far better, not least because the shorter height allows you to stay still and rain indirect fire on enemies who have no way of shooting back.
@@ImRuined666BTA is the closest to tabletop mod. RT has a lot of extra stuff outside of tabletop.
Two Lyran missile boats within (almost) a week of eachother? What a treat!
glory of glories...
I like missiles. This has a lot of missiles. I like this.
Missiles, missiles, all the missiles...
Drop 2 lasers. Now you have 40 tubes of Artemis.
Get cluster'd
2:38 "radical designs for radical times!" love that one.
Totally radical...dude.
I haven't ever used the Salamander myself, but I do like the design. I can't condone ELRMs, though, they just make me sad anytime they appear.
I would like to see something on the Scarabus, if you're staying on 3055. It's got a lot of attitude, and an interesting hatchet mount.
That is an interesting one.
i am good with Elrms for vehicles, particular a cheap haul with speed. don't need armor as i would use it to hit targets at extreme range and scot away before counter fire. On the mech it just way to much for so little damage.
@@Marveryn Try a high speed ELRM hovercraft or VTOL, firing from the unexpected direction (their back) from a lake or seafront or down from atop a inaccessible cliff face. It makes the enemy nervous to say the least, as they never know where the incoming fire is coming from next.
"It died, and it hurt the entire time" now I'm dying 😂
:)
What happens to a toad in a missile storm? the same thing that happens to everything else
Classic.
20th Century poetry...
Excellent overview as always! If you end up doing one for the Anubis and are looking for art to use, I actually have some fanart I've recently posted that's based on the old model but equipped with its new Light PPC loadout. It's currently just a sketch but I have plans to turn it into a quick fill-able wireframe as well.
I dig the Anubis. We may need to do that soon.
Excellent video. I loved playing the salamander. Aside from the left arm containing so much ammo.
Thank you! Yeah you may want to use that right arm as a shield as best you can.
@@MechanicalFrog torso twisting was my thing
The 6T has a typo, says 3 LRM-20s instead of 2.
Also, the Targeting Computer only works with direct fire weapons, so how does it help missles getting to the target?
I went with a more traditional/cheaper variant. It mounts 3 Clan LRM-20s with Artemis V, that being the only bit of Clan tech on it. It still has the 9 tons of missiles in their standard slots but now has CASE II in each location (this did require removing the Lower Arm Actuator in the Left Arm, but the endurance is worth it). An IS Light Engine and IS Endo-composite clears out the critical slots needed and replaced the standard Mediums for IS ER Mediums. Not perfect but I feel it focuses on its original mission at an improved performance and survivability.
EDIT: You are right. I forgot the Targeting Computer only works for Energy and Ballistics.
@@MechanicalFrog It happens, there is such a variety of rules for weapons and tech that remembering it all is tricky at times.
One would think that the Salamander would have been a prime candidate for a variant featuring MML racks, given how many high profile instances of it being in close range combat have been recorded.
Also, I wonder why didn’t they just move one of the LRM racks to the other arm, leaving one torso free for ammo storage? Maybe they were afraid of it being compared to the Longbow?
I think the lore reason is that the arm required special engineering so moving it would have been a big thing. So they just let mechwarriors die because it's cheaper.
The BT game needs an ammo usage priority system, since a high LRM count Mech usually runs out of critical slots in the legs and torsos fast so it needs to put ammo in the arm/s, which makes using case even more important, but that could mean you run out of ammo mid mission, so having a priority on which ammo bin location you use early can also lower the chances of an ammo explosion knocking the mech out of the fight.
I've always let players mark off where the reloads are coming from on the record sheet.
@@MechanicalFrog I was reffering to the pc game, you can't do that there, unfortunately.
@@Primearch-GGIf you're playing with Roguetech or another mod that adds ammo types you can solve the problem by placing ammo types used early in vulnerable locations. You probably won't be laying minefields late in mission, right?
@@vmonk722 I know that, but who's using mines these days? They're nerfed enough for kindergarten. And I mentioned high LRM, as in late game assault or superheavy, not early game lights.
@@Primearch-GG There's more types than just mines, right? Btw I agree that consumption priority should be something that can be changed for builds where workarounds like the suggested one aren't sufficient.
I love that in the art you used, the laser barrels plus the smoke looks like the mech is chomping on a cigar.
Heh, thanks yeah I guess it does a bit.
The Salamander is basically a next-generation Longbow, and nothing wrong with that. Its fairly plain and practical upgrade, if youre willing to pay for that Extralight engine.
Its variants try to be different from a regular missile boat though.
The Salamander PPR-5T is extremely fast for an Assault mech at 86kph.
PPR-7S loses some firepower in exchange for Jump Jets and a more durable Light fusion engine.
My favorite is the PPR-7T which uses uses Extended Range missiles and a C3 computer so is more true to bombard enemies instead of getting into duels.
If possible I would go for an Arrow IV artillery missile system.
The Salamander on the cover of a TRO 3055 book about to jump-punch a Berserker assault mech.
It can be a fun one. That arm, though...
I remember the baddie had one of these in a BLP novel. It was a scary bugger even with the minimum range.
When the dice rolls are on your side, it can be nasty.
Measure of a Hero I think. It was a great story.
@@darylmolinejr.6166 That's the one. I liked it, maybe some of the bits with the sister are a bit oversimplified, but they sorta have to be since the precise terms of the Lyran and Planetary constitutions weren't things he was allowed to lay down so he had to kinda slip into broad 1776isms.
I love the salamander vs berserker art it really has a great vibe. We know that the salamander is outclassed in CQB but the posture sells that the pilot isn’t going to except defeat that easily. Its fun because adding the damage to the berserker really makes it feel like a more even fight.
It has a certain swagger to it.
"As an unbiased party" lol. Good one, Mr. Frog - a fantastic episode for this fantastically derpy boi. I love this mech quite a bit now after the performance mine experienced in my 1st Orloff Grenadiers unit this past weekend @ Games of Berkeley!
Nice! Glad to hear it worked for you.
The salamander has always been mysterious to me. Ive only played the pc games and my entire experience with the salamander is seeing it in instant action mode in mercenaries 2 and i alwaus wondered whats with this secret mech thats not in the campaign? Same goes for wolf trap, rakshasa, battle hawk, grim reaper etc.
Keeping all the wild interesting mechs out of reach.
@@MechanicalFrog lol I thought the rakshasa must be the most amazing mech. Looked just like the "unknown mad cat" and I couldn't find one in game. Little did I know lol. Mercs2 was my first battletech experience.
That art of it fighting a berserker is one of my favorites too. But I never understood why two lyran mechs, built by the same company no less, would be fighting each other
It's beautifully absurd.
Also possibly an image taken as advertising for both mechs.
FEDCOM Civil War? Both sides had plenty of each. Solaris is a good possability, too.( I don't think I would have put any money down on the Salamander, in that one).
The Fedcom civil war was not QUITE the cleanly Steiner vs Davion battle it's often simplified to. It was a true civil war.
Your mamma jokes maybe don't translate well in German, feelings get hurt, next thing you know its an honour biffo
As I was watching the video, talking about the armor, I was thinking to myself that critting the left arm blows the mech! I have taken a few of them that way!
Good times had by all... except that mechwarrior.
Ah, the song of missile volleys.... one of my all time favorites ever since Sigma 6.
9 tons of ammo for 3 launchers..... Plenty to endure or be flexible.
As for the variants:
I find ELRM's interesting, but they are definitely niche. You get more than twice the max range, but the considerable minimum range, heavy ammo, (current) lack of ammo variety, and incompatibility with guidance aides are steep prices. I'd still pick them over Streak LRM, but I'd probably pick NLRM or LRM(C) over ELRM.
I'm way too much of a fan of generalist mechs to put ERLMs on anything.
@@MechanicalFrog I'd probably relegate them to vehicular support like on a Heavy LRM carrier.... or see what I can do with modding a Kraken 3 because I'm rather predictable.
It works.
Mudpuppy would be a lovely name for a scout mech
"if some missiles are good, more must be better" -- made me laugh out loud. Thank you!
Can't fight the science.
All your videos, even the ones where the mechs maybe don’t particularly catch my eye; you make them interesting, I find myself picking up my phone and reading up on them on Sarna. Keep it up sir, thank you.
Happy to hear that!
Embrace the Awesomeness. Ditch the LA lrm and ammo and Frankenstein a LWR arm actuator from an 8Q on with a heavy ppc, add three heatsinks (two more fit in the engine).
Or... and hear me out... pack even more ammo into the arm and become a walking bomb.
I like the Salamander as one of those things you don't see too often, I have a nice custom 3D printed model of it that I plan to paint up "soon"
I hope it gets the CGL plastic treatment soon.
@@MechanicalFrog for sure, would love to see a new take on it with the more "realistic" art style
A fun retrofit for the Salamander is to replace the left arm LRM launcher with a Thunderbolt 20. It gives it a long rang hole puncher and cuts down on your ammo explosion risk by virtue of having less rounds per ton. Your left arm can't explode if there's no ammo in it.
Quite true. I need to test this.
Another fun watch :-) i upgraded to the salamander from my bombardier in a long run campaign i was part of and i gotta say it was a brilliant upgrade that helped me win the whole campaign..a great mech if usd properly :-)
Very cool. Glad it worked for you.
oh man i forgot this thing! it was featured in some of my first BT games! before we knew to resolve missile hits in five point clusters!
Were you doing each missile individually or in 15-20 point groupings?
@MechanicalFrog One is extra tedious, turning every lrm boat into an SRM carrier, the other is "why even use a gauss rifle?" Tier. Also was apparently a bug in +clustering in BTA and RT
@@MechanicalFrog we were doing each misisle and it was soooo painful!. When we learned of the 5-point cluster rule it was like divine revolation!
Oh no! @@Dreadwolf3155
I do feel that 3055 and 3058 are the unsung masterpieces of BattleTech TROs, often overshadowed by 3050, 3060, and 3064 TROs.
Things really go off the rails after 3058...
Like your variant except for thw Lrm 20. Should be kept to Lrm 15 for ammo reasons using rest of weight maybe for ecm and active probe so less chance of being ambushed and less c3 from enemy to worry about.....
Fair. It needs work as I forgot the TC doesn't work for missiles anyway.
You mentioned the targeting computer with the LRMs. Correct me if im wrong but doesn't the targeting computer only help with the lasers?
You're right, I forgot. It only works with energy and ballistics.
I have that original book with all these cool mechs in it, The Salamander being one of my favorites. Soo much i was absolutely giddy when I salvaged one in RT. Where the long bow is just two massive arm replacement missile pods. This here makes good use of placement with a reasonable humanoid appearance. The MF version looks good. Should have thrown in a Timber Wolf on the MF side to even the sides. Otherwise your lance gave better than it got.
Yeah that 4th mech was a little much. If it had been 3 on 3, the Salamanders would have crushed it.
Yep, exactly as you say. Keep it at range to do its job and it will serve well. A frontline brawler it ain't.
Unless you see a berserker. Then it's GO TIME.
I got two 3d printed, looks great
With a name like "Salamander" and a missile based loadout one would exepect there to be a Torpedo pr MML based loadout. Using Torpedos, Harjel, and some UMU's could make this a horrifying aquatic combatant.
Talk about a niche mech...
Another great video frog... Now all i can think about is Cerberus + Salamander. Ouch. Just an FYI, the LRMs dont work with Tcomps. Also, an easy fix to the arm problem would be CASE II. Sure. It would be a bit expensive in terms of weight, but it would fix it.
Yeah I forgot about the TCs not impacting missiles.
For the 10k channel special-maybe make your own 'Mech, call it the BullFrog or something, give it variants and a history
I am working on something special with a certain IIC mech that didn't get made... But I am working with a 3D modeler to get it designed.
Maybe 15k. Unique mechs take time to dream up.
I like it, and I do agree that the 7S is probably the best variant. My PPR-ISM variant is based on the 7S, but uses Clan tech for all but the engine and myomer. Its loadout is 3 Clan LRM-20s/Artemis, each launcher/w 3 tons of Clan CASE II protected ammo, and an ER Medium Pulse Laser in the CT and right arm. It retains the Jump Jets. And since Clan LRMs have no minimum range issues, it would be a threat at all ranges.
The upgrade to Clan LRMs is big.
It's mech I keep thinking about getting one as I do use longbows and this well up until the 12c variant has more throw weight. It's got a great look and glad you pulled up some of it's great art. All fun stuff for a mech named for the spirit of fire who still is an amphibian.
Right on. I know it's not the best LRM boat out there but I still think it's fun and has character.
I think the 7S is a great starting point. I would drop the JJ's and switch all three Lrm 15's to clan Lrm 15 with art. IV. This gives you some weight and room to play with. I would add a supercharger to address the loss of mobility, add two mine dispensers to dissuade enemies from closing (I would also dedicate one of the six tons of ammo to improved thunderer rounds for more mines). I removed the smaller lasers for a clan er large for a consistent fire support option, I added an ams with 24 shots and a clan ecm to help defensively, and finally, I added a C³ slave. The C³ combined with some semiguided lrms can negate both range and enemy movement modifiers, so this thing can deny ground or put some high accuracy shots on target. (or and all ammo is in the cased torso)
Oh, I added a Radical heatsink too: cuz it's RAD!
Totally radical...
I dont know, that art of the Salamander vs the Berserker definitely has the Sal in the better position. He's about to dome the Berky.
I do love missile boats. My favorite was an Adder/Puma w/ Artemis just littered w/ LRM. For some reason, the Adder's design feels frog like to me, so I painted her up in green and named her Artemis Clyde Frog. I'd love to try out a Salamander now though.
Yay, Clyde Frog.
The Salamander is a fun niche design for sending a lot of fire at enemies. And it can survive it too, thanks to the fire-resistant ar- wait, what do you mean it doesn't have that?
A crime... a dang crime...
Love this video, really cool artwork throughout (colored Salamanders). My son's favorite mech because he stomped all over me in Alpha Strike in one.
Yay, go Salamanders!
LRM 20's do hit hard, but are pretty in-efficiant(sp) when it comes to weight and criticals. Thats why I like -15's. With the weight savings, add ART-IV, that way you hit with about as many as a 20 spread. As for the free'd up criticals, I dunno, maybe MOVE ALL OF THAT DAMNED AMMO OUT OF THE ARM! As for Paper( Original cover) TRO's, I've still got 2750/3050/55/57/58/60 and 67. Missing 25/26, and didn't even know about 39 till I went on Sarna.
That's fair.
I have 50, 55, 58, and 60.
@@DIEGhostfish The art work in 60...just ouch.
Another excellent vid. Thank you, MechFrog. I did know the Salamander but didn’t know that much about it. I love the look. How to squeeze one into my collection…hmmm….the 5S can be used by ComStar👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
By the time you're bringing that Extended LRM you really should just grab an Arrow.
Jerry: "I'm going to hit you with this stick."
Bob: "Please don't."
Jerry: "I'm gunna..."
You can fix any issues with Clan tech! :)
Often, yes. But then again, the Urbanmech IIC exists.
@@MechanicalFrog Clan tech can fix flaws , they cannot improve perfection that is the UrbanMech!
Here I was musing on how I might convert this thing if I wanted to make it better able to defend itself, and sure enough, the 6S pops up and is a pretty good facsimile for what I had in mind.
Problem solved!
I made a salamander with 5 clan lrm 20 with 7 tons of ammo and 2 clan medium pulse lasers, 16 double heat sinks. Had to drop some ammo to make everything fit.
That's a lot of LRM20... :D
My take on this mech.
Salamander 0Z:
Weight: 80 tons BV: 1,647 Cost: 18,327,720 C-bills Movement: 4/6 Engine: 320 XL Double Heat Sinks: 13 [26] Gyro: Standard Gyro Internal: 122 (Endo-Steel) Armor: 240/247.
Weapons: 3 Streak SRM6 all in the LA. 2 tons of ammo in LT and RT [CASE]
4 MRM 10's. 2 in the LT and RT. 2 tons of ammo in LT and RT [CASE]
4 Med Pulse Lasers. 2 in the LT and RT.
Equipment: CASE in the LT and RT and Apollo MRM FCS in the HD.
All IS equipment which is rare for me to have. lol
Sounds fun. There should be an MRM variant.
The Salamander does seem cool.
This one feels like an upgraded Longbow!
The aesthetics don't really do it for me 'though, but I can't put my finger on why.
Another later IS design which I never really played with, but looks like it's worth considering now I am back in the game.
Maybe the new CGL re-imagining will be more your liking.
Hit him with the arm full of ammo, bomb arm!
It always sort of was a problem with the LRM boats in that they tended to either have not enough ammo or they just squeezed it in anywhere it would fit like a crazy cat ladies house. They do blow up really well, but there's sort of that risk that it won't either and chances are you'll get enough of them landing on the op-for that they won't enjoy the experience
When they work, they work... when they don't work, they explode in gigantic mushroom clouds.
“Bomb arm”!😂🤣
the Axolotl needs to be Battle Armor that uses that clan liquid armor repairing stuff... or a light mech that somehow uses it
Harjel, yes.
I deeply regret selling my Battletech manuals and miniatures on Ebay back in the day. But the game was very dead and I moved from my home town and had no one to play with.
Oof... I'm sorry.
The Salamander has a special place for me as a certain pilot of one may have been based on someone I grew up with 🙂
Awesome!
MF-This is a much scarier version.
It can punch.
It does make me wonder why the 2 medium lasers weren't swapped out for ER mediums
Hmm... good question.
Wait, the one with the 400 XL engine is the Salamander 5T? Does that mean it's the Taurians equipping them? Where the heck is the Taurian Concordat getting 400 XL fusion engines, and how would it possibly afford them?
A 400XL?!
@@MechanicalFrog Yeah, the 5T is an 80-ton 'Mech with 5 walk MP (it goes 86.4 kph on a run)-it must have a 400-rated engine, and I believe it's a 400 XL. I don't know it's a Taurian design, but that's what the T usually indicates in designations. Sadly, I haven't found a definitive list or article on what the designation codes mean (some are obvious-K is Kurita, M is Marik, L is Liao, S is Steiner, D is Davion, etc.)
According to the Master Unit List, it's available to FedCom/FedSuns/Lyrans and Mercenaries, so it probably isn't actually a Taurian design, unlike other T-designated variants, but it does have a 400 XL engine.
"explode if you shoot off the arm", that sounds like something from fallout games, shoot the toe and the head explodes
Choices were made...
Never bring an LRM60 (with nine tons of ammo) to an ax fight!
*Unless you're awesome!*
When in doubt, get into melee range.
We need a mech named the Honey Badger. Nothing but SRMs, pulse lasers and a bad attitude.
Sounds like a a Davion mech.
The OG Salamander plays like it was designed by a MWO player
Heh... is that a good thing or an insult?
@MechanicalFrog depends how you look at it. MWO builds tend to stray a whole lot away from the spirit of the original. The Salamander's got a goof balance of fluff and optimization imo
salamander.......good fire support if kept as a missile boat...when one of the guys decided to put a Kurita Spin on things...he replaced all the LRM-20's with MRM-30's...yes, it overheats , but...scary as short- mid range missile boat. MF version is a nice take on the original
All the missiles... ALL of them...
A true mech warriors dies to ammunition explosion.
O_o
All hail the mighty (Mechanical) Frog!
Doing my part.
Now this is another 'mech I used to own. It's simply nasty for an I.S. 'mech. I love its firepower, ammo load and solid armor. Did I mention I love its speed and appearance?
You just did! :D
The Salamander and the Jagermech face off. Who can trigger an ammo explosion first? Thanks for the video.
Might I suggest you drop the targeting computer and take the last 20 rack down to a 15 in favor of upgrading the lasers. Turn the MF Salamander into a true long range beast with an ER Large laser, or merely add more ER Medium Clan lasers. Or add some more ammo and / or cooling. I'd definitely look at Clan Double Heat Sinks as well.
I use the Salamander as an alternate for the Archer (my standard fire support platform) occasionally just to throw in a curve my "fire lizard" variant will spit out infernos as a special surprise. It also makes for a nice forced shutdown tool on some maps for players who ride their heat scale a bit too much. Oh the lovely salvage it produces, once you scrape out the BBQ'ed remnants of the former operator(s). How do you like your infantry is that original, extra crispy, or just strait up blackened?
Yeah I forgot that the TC didn't impact missiles. I would definitely yank it.
4 MML 15, as many different ammo types as you can fit and 3 medium lasers.
"How many types?"
All of them... and more...
My take is a hybrid design between the 6S and 7S.
Salamander ZM
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3060
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 80 tons
Chassis: (IS)
Power Plant: 320 Light Fusion
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h Running Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor Type: (IS) Standard 15T
Armament:
1 Medium Laser CT
1 C3 Slave Unit HD
1 Medium Laser RA
1 SRM 4 w/ Artemis IV RA
1 LRM 15 w/ Artemis IV RT
1 Medium Laser LA
1 LRM 15 w/ Artemis IV LT
14 DHS total
1 DHS in LA and RA
2T LRM Ammo in the LT and RT
1T SRM ammo LT
Case LT and RT
BV 2.0 ~1675
Can survive an ammo hit and still move as fast as the original. Can lay down accurate LRM support fire until the bins run dry, then move in to finish off crippled OPFOR.
I like it. Accurate missiles for the win.
Vulkan liv.. oh.. sorry wrong franchise. Thank you for bringing us obscure mechs that i wouldn't habe known about.
Personally I think 3055 has a lot of really jank artwork yet many of my favorite mechs come from it. The Salamander though, the price tag is brutal when you consider that an LRM carrier can put the same number of LRM's in the air for about 1/8th the price.
Yeah but the Salamander has feet and it's called a SALAMANDER! That has to be worth something...
A friend of mine would pull 3 tonnes LRM ammo for 3x Artemis.
Might solve the arm issue...
And hits like a Freight Train.
I love the salamander. I always wanted to swap the 3 lrm 20s for 5 clan lrm 20s more heat sinks and amo
Profile swap. 4/6/4; IS XL & 15DHS, 15.5T Armor, Endo (C), targeting computer (C), Clan spec weapons: 2 ERPPCs, 3 ER MLasers, 3 Streak6 (4t A), Angel ECM. (BV2 3180)
The ECM is a nice touch. Definitely a new direction.
Newt would be a good name for a hovercraft me thinks.
Aff
100% agree this is a great LRM platform but never taken one or seen one , this is an unfortunate thing about Battletech
Lots of mechs out there that need love.
Lots of rain
'Something something fight in the shade..."
I've never gotten into the Salamander, and honestly the artwork in most of TR3055 doesn't do much for me. My experience has been that mobile mediums for fire support work better anyway. Give me a couple of Trebuchets and a good spotter. 🙂
That's fair.
"Thanks to clan sea fox" Defiance industries takes offense to this. Who do you think we are, a lowly peasant corporation like coventry? We make our own clan systems thank you very much.
Take it up with Tammy in HR.
Radical Designs means good old war crimes.
Potato...potAto...
I'm in favor of reserving all amphibian names for battle armor. BattleMechs have plenty of names already.
An interesting point.
I have a hard time liking this mech, the Archer and even the Catapult can give you a solid fire support option that has more flexibility, speed and in case of the catapult more agility for a fraction of the cost. The salamander is exclusively a fire support plattform in its base configuration that due to its combat role simply doesnt need that amount of armor since such an exclusive fire support unit is not suposed to fight at brawling range. Not that it can escape if it finds itselfe ambushed at short range and the 2 medium lasers arent even enough to fight off a pair of locusts. Ontop of that it has a XL engine that will make it much easier to take it out at these ranges.
Its a fire support platform that can be had cheaper and more efficiently at lower weights, usually with greater flexibility and being much more defensible. Considering how fast Clan mechs for example can close the distance and how much firepower their light mechs pack, this thing will be a sitting duck for anything that manages to breach lines with little to no chance for the salamander to fight back or disengage. Honestly as a suposedly anti clan mech this is a terrible design. And thats not even considering the fast medium and heavy mechs the clans usually field. And lets not mention that in a long range battle against clan assaults the salamander is completly outgunned and way to easy to hit by those Clan LRMs, ER PPCs and Clan Gauss rifles.
Its basically a super expensive LRM carrier... with the only difference being that you wont go bankrupt if your LRM carrier gets shot down. Its really not a good design or idea and fails horrible at facing its intended enemy. Ill take a Archer or Catapult over a salamander.
It's definitely not for everyone. Hopefully you can see how it might appeal, though.
@@MechanicalFrog Its just tactically limited by being an assault with 3 LRM 20s and little else (besides a glaring weakspot for "insert damage here to cause massive damage" paired with an XL engine). For Clan pilots the Salamander is nothing but target practice that completly looses its bite once you get close to it, wich as i said before, is really easy for clan mechs. A Stormcrow or even a Cougar, or heck.. a dasher, will eat a salamander for breakfast while having no issues at all circumventing any other member of the lance the salamander is part of. If that clan mechs is also carrying some elementals.. bye bye salamander
The only real usage i can see for the salamander would be as a garrison unit against periphery threats wich have a much tougher time closing the distance and usually cant outgun it at long range either. I just wonder what made the lyran designers go: "You know.. the clans have superior speed and superior firepower and superior accuracy.. so lets design an assault that is basically useless at close range and gets outgunned at long range!"
Do the lyrans have "social" engineers ontop of social generals? XD
The Salamander is a case of "putting too many eggs in one basket". LRMs are cluster weapons and there is generally no reason to put all your LRMs in a single unit.
Altough the firepower of three LRM-20 is amazing and 9 tons of ammo are great for using all sorts of special ammo, the Mech makes too many sacrifices to make this loadout possible.
The Mech screams for a flanking attack. The rear armor is very thin and the Mech has no means to defend itself against attacks from behind.
There are many medium Mechs that have enough speed to go around the Salamander and that also have the firepower to penetrate it´s rear armor and blow up this walking bomb in one go.
I would agree with you if this were a Clan dueling mech. But this is an Inner Sphere design intended to operate as part of a unit. It is a specialist so it's not supposed to be able to do everything. That's what your buddies are for.
@@jameshewitt5774 The reality of Inner Sphere warfare is that do not fight with the units you WOULD like to have, but those yo DO have.
A Mech that is specialized to the point that it can do nothing but a single task is probably not what the troops really want or need.
Such designs are usually the pet projects of some armchair strategists and marketing departments.
If your faction is the Star League and you have tons of cash to burn on such projects this Mech might sound like a good idea.
If you are a smaller power or a mercenary unit, you will think twice whether the Salamander is worth the huge price tag or whether an Archer ARC-4M would be a better deal.
You need to look up CritterTech game book done by Crunchy Frog.
I've seen it. Pretty wild.
Relying on Clan tech to save a design is both expensive and lazy.
**Chewing popcorn** Want some?
I don't think the targeting computer would work with the LRMs. I know Artemis V would be nasty for it
Yep, I forgot.
@@MechanicalFrog it's all good, having accurate Medium Lasers could be valuable again lighter units trying to get in your grill.
Yeah it's not a total waste.
Watchman WTC-4DM when??
Hmm... that might be a while.
Keep it up MF!!!
Will do!
I want a salamander now lol. Also anybody know if you can put megamech on a MacBook?
I don't know. Check the website?
LRM-15'S have a better "sweet spot" than LRM-20'S. look at the chart for misled roll table.
But 20s are bigger. Bigger things are better. This is the law.
Has! Got the second like! It's mine and y'all can't have it!
"My precious..."
Missiles are good, Gauss rifle better... but everybody knows that clan ERPPC's and LPL's are best
It's hard to deny the drawing power of the CLPL.