Adam Savage Learns About Barrel Nut Screwdrivers!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มี.ค. 2024
- Adam opens a mailbag from Tested viewer Chris Small, who's been waiting almost two years to send this gift: a set of barrel nut screwdrivers--the same make and models used to install threaded inserts on Navy ship terminals. This mailbag not only introduces Adam to a new tool, but includes a junction box to demonstrate how they work!
Comsaco Barrel Nut Screwdrivers: www.comsaco.com/product-categ...
Shot by Adam Savage and edited by Norman Chan
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A specialty screwdriver storage solution needs A.) a video an B.) to use as many different specialty fasteners as possible.
Pro Tip, pun intended… I have these for the same reason, working on Navy ships. Since my main tool bag is soft, made by Ruffian Specialties, to protect the tip I use a piece of carbon fiber tube, from McMaster of course, inserted into a pocket. I also do the same for my Vaco screw holding screwdrivers. I love specialty screwdrivers!
😂 goodstuff..
Hilarious you have never run across barrel nuts till now...
I'm in aviation.... Wild
Really good niche info. Poor production, cinematography , editing.
One of the things that I've always found frustrating as a maker is knowing that a tool or part for a job MUST exist, but not knowing what it's called and so how to search for it. I love these videos because they are a good way to find out what it is I knew I needed but couldn't name.
Same for me. Over the years, tons of useful things have revealed themself through TH-cam, I had no idea they existed - or like you say, I guessed they did, but I didn’t know how to look for them. Also applies to a whole bunch of materials which I can’t find because I don’t know under what name they’re being sold.
This is a kind of thing chatgpt like AIs are actually really useful for. Google is meant for keywords, you do have to know what you're useful for, but with chatgpt you can just explain as best you can to it in regular words, like if you were trying to ask a regular person. And it will conversationally give you back info unlike Google. Its a great learning resource. Ik theirs probably alot of people here that don't want to acknowledge this sort of thing tho lol.
the is a type of problem that chatgpt can actually be very useful for. googling takes keywords, you do need to know what youre looking for, but chatgpt is more conversational. you can just try your best to explain what youre talking about, like you were asking a real person, and it will give you lots of information back as if you asked an expert. i know alot of people may not like chatgpt and ai stuff here though lol.
If you can find it, a great resource that Adam has talked about in the past is a book called "The Backstage Handbook" by Paul Carter. It is an illustrated guide with simple pictures and the associated names. Great book for obscure tool names.
This is what the mcmaster carr catalog exists
They should go in the Sortemo box w/ the barrel nuts so every time you get a barrel nut, you see the screwdrivers and remember you have them.... 😁👍😂
This is a great solution!
Exactly what I was thinking!
Yes
same 'first' thought I had
Ditto
Any specialty fitting that uses a unique tool should be stored together.
"Maybe I need a specialty screwdriver draw"...*fights the very real urge to go off into a one-day build before finishing the show-and-tell*
*drawer
You may have heard 'draw', but he said 'drawer'
I love the realization, going from oh no, to how, where.
To be fair, he probably needs a specialty screwdriver drawer.
I wonder when he will learn there are microbit [4mm bits] ratchet screwdrivers
The immediate joy upon realizing he needs a specialty screwdriver drawer is just beautiful.
Something like those i would store right with the insert nuts, as it is pretty rare you would find and need to unscrew an existing insert nut in the wild.
You genuinely don't need one. You drive them in with a normal screw and you pull them out with a screw with a nut on it. You drive the screw in, hold it stationary, then drive the nut, tighten it against the insert and then unscrew the lot out.
yes, but then you slide into arguments like do you store your apple corer slicer thing with your apples? Functionally i love it philosophically it troubles me
Agree 100%
@@juliettaylorswiftYes you probably SHOULD store your apple core slicer with your apples. If that makes it easier to remember where it is and easier to use vs any of the other places you could put it. Storage is 100% functionality and ergonomics.
@@gearandalthefirst7027but then where do I put the juicer? Do I store my towels inside the shower to store the tool closest to the job it’s used on?
When i have a specialty tool for a specialty fastener, I put the tool next to the fasteners. So use a 1x4 or 1x6 TBoxx bin in the same sortimo box that the barrel nuts are stored.
I was thinking the same thing & it fits the first order of retrievability
This is the way... same for my pop rivet tool
I’d have to keep a note in my screwdriver drawer to remind me lol
Make it fun. Leave a series of clues that you have to solve@@spacedudejr
There are also hex drive threaded inserts that use an Allen/hex key instead of a barrel nut screwdriver. I recently used these when building a desk that I wanted to be able to take the legs off of in case of needing to transport.
I think some of the electrical lugs (similar to the ones in the Junction box he showed) are like that. Positive retention is important in those situations.
That's what I use as well, also for desk legs. In addition to not needing a one-off tool, you can get lots more torque with a hex via a ratchet.
Same. Also can always use a sized bolt and nut to use a socket.
@@mdbbox5660 Or an impact wrench!
The way I've always installed threaded inserts is using a matching machine bolt and nut. Screw nut onto the bolt far enough for the length of the insert, then screw on the insert. Tighten the nut against the insert jam nut style, and then use a socket wrench on the bolt head to screw the insert in place (or to remove it). Works great and never mangles the slot.
In my "home hardware store" I have an appropriate bolt/nut in each bin of threaded inserts that goes back into the bin after the insert is installed.
I cut the head off the bolt and chuck it into my drill press to keep the insert straight then turn the chuck by hand.
I do the same, just make sure the bolt and nut used are 8.8 or better, as plain steel wears badly after a while. With the nut I also try to use a nylock nut so it self grips, so you do not worry about the thread, though I also have done some with red thread locker to keep the nylock there forever. Nylock goes on insert end first, so you first do it regular way to cut the insert to the thread, then off, turn around, and put on the bolt backwards. For those with regular use (M4 and M5) there is a second nylock that acts as jam nut on the one for the insert, firmly pressed down nylon to nylon to deform them, and they do not move, even when used with a power driver.
have installed many using that method
Me too. It really keeps the insert stable as you screw it in.
@@jimruddy6083
That’s good if you need to ensure it’s perfectly perpendicular. Thanks for the tip.
6 steps to addiction
1.Build a specialty screw driver drawer.
2.Place the screw drivers
3.Drawer looks too empty.
4.Buy more screw drivers
5.Drawer too full.
6. Loop to step 1
It always starts at 1 tool.
31. Open the third branch of Museum of Screwdrivers that not only display specialty drivers but sell most of up-to-date versions of products in collection in the shop
32. Profit
TAS- Tool Acquisition Syndrome. Directly related to the more general "Gear Acquisition Syndrome", there are interventions available. ;)
I’ve never gotten to step 5 they disappear….somewhere in my house there is a mother load of #2 Phillips and 3/16 flat blade screwdrivers.
Boy, seeing that junction box takes me waaaayyy back. I too was an electrician's mate on submarines and yes. Notice too that you can slip those nuts onto the tip of the driver to start them on the terminal block. :)
Or when supply cancels your order for them 6 times and you just have to file a flathead
My grandfather had one of these screwdrivers and it's in my 'precision' tool box now. He was a maintenance man for a paper mill for fifty years. Any unique tools of his, I fought for hard to get.
My precision tool box exists to keep the nice tools nice for the time when a more talented craftsman than myself gets them. :)
I love how you announce that you have a acknowledgment deficiency and that you acknowledged that in this video
For the uninformed, you stress relieve metals, including brass, by heating them uniformly up to some temperature specific to that alloy and allowing them to slowly cool. Some alloys benefit from slowly cooling down to cryogenic temperatures. At any rate, it is important that the temperature changes always occur slowly so as to not warp the part, i.e. induce any further stress.
That part was most likely done after it was formed and the mounts welded on the back. In high viberation areas it will keep things like the mounts from cracking off as easily.
One theory about the alleged superiority of antique Stanley hand planes is the castings were cast and machined in batches, shuttled between the factory and an unheated warehouse between each machining step. Supposedly the constant temperature shifts relieved stress and stabilized the castings. Given the large variety of products and the limited market for some of the less common sizes a plane body might take years or even decades between casting and final machining.
Obviously that's not true. A much simpler explanation is people have just had more time to discard the planes that warped.
@@danielstickney2400 Or that the factory would take all the castings for the previous day, and place them in a furnace that had been used, and allowed them to heat up from the residual heat in the lining, and slowly cool overnight. That way any that cracked could be told using a ring test, and tossed into the pile for the next melt, and any that were too badly warped as well, while those that passed went into the machining shop to get cut into shape, most likely on a shaper as well, and then finally ground to final dimensions. 3 shapers , each with a jig, could do all the rough operations and not worry too much about hard spots, as the HSS cutter will only wear slowly, while a single operator for 3 machines will be able to keep up with the needs to swap tooling, and parts from jig to jig.
Periodic annealing like you mentioned is also sometimes necessary to prevent cracks and other damage when a piece gets work-hardened as it's being made.
Dude dont worry about your hair! You have every right to rock the mad scientist look. Love your work, you are a great influence to the world. Keep it up!
Imagine the wave of disappointment if his hair style suddenly looked like Dick Van Dyke or something 🤣
This was clearly filmed before the lab oven upgrade. Lol!
he often films a crap load of content at once and they trickle it out. we've had stuff from over 6 months ago before. its interesting to see what's different in the shop lol
That the first thing I looked for when I saw the oven in the background.
Classic continuity error! Haha
You did see that Adam has the infinity gauntlet right back there ? He can go back and forth in time as he pleases.
Yeah, and R2 is missing his gunbelt!
I love people who send in tools like this - There's always something new to learn.
I love anyone that sends me tools. :-)
Wow that back wall is enviable and very aesthetically pleasing to anybody who's worked with parts.
Oh happy day! Thank you to Chris and Adam, I have needed this tool at work for years, but never knew what to look for or frankly that these existed. You don’t know how much easier these 8 and a quarter minutes just made my life. “Stress Relieved” indeed!
Those are some awesome screwdrivers I did not know existed. As a woodworker we learned to put threaded inserts in backwards , that screw slot into the wood as a cutting edge and use a Allen key or a nut/jam nut bolt setup to install the insert.
Awesome vid and gift.
I came here to recommend the bolt/jam nut insert method too.
As a woodworker, these screwdrivers are useless.
One of the main purposes of a threaded insert in wood is that it can resist spinning under the torque of the internal fastener. If you can somehow manage to install a threaded insert into wood with one of these screwdrivers, by hand (lol!), there wouldn't be enough resistance against the torque of a fastener being tightened or removed to keep it from spinning the insert too.
Barrel nuts for woodworking or anything else except Navy junction boxes have a threaded hole perpendicular to the axis of the barrel.
@@mrfirestop415 I'm not a woodworker (more of an embarrasing hack, really), but my experience has been that drilling a cavity for the insert with a Forstner bit and then lightly epoxying the hole holds the insert pretty solidly in the wood, but it's a permanent thing - if the insert gets stripped, you're gonna have to drill it out.
@@stevepreskitt283 Agreed with stripped threads, but there are steel inserts available that are plenty durable, and a reverse threaded broken bolt remover will pull a a stripped insert easily.
I tap the hole with the insert's external thread when installing these, it's easy to modify a bolt to act as a tap that only partially cuts the threads by grinding off some of the bolts threads and cutting a slot across the threads and along the bolts length. Quality inserts outer threads are specifically formed with much thinner or sharper edges than regular threads, so with the help of some half formed threads in a hole (hole preferably slightly larger than the inserts minor diameter) they will wind in very tightly without the need for epoxy... but it doesn't hurt. Heat will soften epoxy easily enough for removal.
Hope the tips help!
Just watching him get excited makes my day
And my brain went right too 'keep em with the inserts'!
"Show & tell shelf". Perfect.
Ahhh, that's what they are called!
In airbrushes there is a component called a needle packing nut. Which is an adjustable assembly to ensure a good air seal around the needle, but not so much friction that it drags too heavy on the needle body.
The drivers supplied are almost identical to these, with a central locating pin and flat blades, but of a significantly smaller dimension.
One of the best feelings is using a newly purchased specialty tool for the first time, when you’ve previously been getting it (poorly) done with the wrong tool
There's a version of those threaded inserts that uses a hex key instead of a flat slot to turn them into position.
They are slightly more expensive and sometimes require a bit more searching but boy does that make a difference.
Yup. These are the ones I prefer.
Hex head are the most common threaded inserts where I’m from. Didn’t realise it was such an issue until I saw his type of inserts.
How about you store them in the same drawer as you do your barrel nuts? It's not like you're going to use them for anything else. Having the tool stored in the same place as the only fasteners you'll use them with makes sense to me.
“Three things means a category”
(writes that down in his journal of Adamisms)
6:18 a genuine Adam moment of excitement/curiosity/pondering... His mind is already probably pondering other specialty screwdrivers in his shop, their sizes and shapes and a place to put these and a potential solution... I really enjoy these moments.
"Three things mean a category " I encountered this just a couple of hours ago, as I was sorting my fountain pens...
I found that McMaster-Carr sells a driver bit for the inserts. What they *don’t* have is a tap to cut threads in the wood. I made a custom tap for this to use in a very hard wood (teak) which would not accept the inserts directly.
This reminds me of a nipple driver (quiet at the back!) used for lacing bicycle wheels. Also a very satisfying tool!
I have a nipple wrench. It's primarily used to remove a broken percussion cap nipple from caplock firearms, but you can also use it on human nipplles.
I love this man. I refer to Adam Savage as my spirit animal. His support of the community of makers, enthusiasm for creativity, tools and science is something only makers can relate to. Not only is this channel one of my favorites to watch as I consider it premium content, but it is also presented with very few if any advertisements. Adam is a maker who is content to share his craft and knowledge while only being supported by other makers, creators and fans. I’m 36 but still say, “I hope to be like Adam Savage when I grow up”
We use those brass threaded inserts at work. We thread them into 1/2" HDPE. There is an attachment you can get for an impact driver to install those. Keeps it attached using a ballbearing like a socket wrench. Then it has two wings on either side for the flat head part.
Edit: Didn't even know they had screwdriver kinds.
Nothing better than having the RIGHT tool for the job! What I would suggest is to keep them WITH the barrel nuts. That way, you always grab the right driver for whichever BN(s) you are planning to install.
I really appreciate how thankful and excited you are with all of this.
Barrel Nuts like that are actually quite common. You find them on Bicycle Chain Rings, Aircraft Avionic and Electrical installations, and even a type of Chicago Stud used on publications/books. You can find Industrial versions and Decorative versions. Finding the tools to work with them? Actually harder! Which to me, I used to run a Navy Squadron Tool Room and had to scrounge a few to work on a Museum Grade military aircraft... which was always fun.
The beauty of having a dedicated miscellaneous tool drawer is it automatically tells you what you need a dedicated drawer for.
Or any other parts or grouping of items.
Adam's excitement is infectious.
If you have a "Barrel Nut" drawer, these should be included as a "Combo Bin" tools and bits all in one place!
Especially with such special use tools, a ‘kit’ setup is fantastic! Including parts, tools, correct size drills, etc. makes it easy to use without hunting.
The way Adam is happy about a gift is heartwarming
I work with magnesium part manufacturing. We have used similar inserts called E-Z loks, which use a very similar installation tool or as you say "screwdriver", but by far the best insert for soft metal like magnesium is called a key-locking insert (more commonly referred to as a Keensert, which is a brand name). The tool for installing these type of inserts uses slots to capture protruding keys, then you thread them in until the keys interfere with the thread of the hole. Then you flip the installation tool around and use a dead-blow hammer to drive the keys down through the threads. This locks them in place. They work great. I've installed thousands over my 25 years of working with them.
The fact that Adam doesn’t already have a specialty screwdriver drawer is surprising. Genuinely!
you know someone is worth listening to when they display this level of tism
You can make driving a screw into wood easier (and reduce damage to the head) by rubbing the threads with bees wax. An old furniture builder showed me that trick. Works really well.
I just tested this. It does work well but I was stung many times
Paraffin wax (e.g. common candle wax) and soap are two good alternatives.
Adam you are so personable. Watching your videos is like sitting down with a long-time old friend!
What a nice guy Chris is. Very generous. And thank you for your service.
In the UK we have threaded inserts with hex key drives. It makes installing them into timber so much easier.
I absolutely love this man. Hes a national treasure if there ever was one
In the UK, we would call these threaded inserts, ours have an hex inset, so you drive in with an Allen key.
Barrel nuts hear a threaded hole at right angle to cross section. Often used to fasten headboards to bed side rails, very strong. IKEA use them a lot.
Charles
As a photographer, I occasionally need to move tripod heads and quick release plates that have different sized threads between various tripod related components (macro slides, quick release adapters, etc), and threaded inserts are used to adjust the tripod threads. In fact, I did this tonight, and had trouble finding a screw driver that would do this. These screw drivers look like they would have been perfect for what I was doing.
Excellent video here, I’m sure it’s hard to surprise or teach Adam with a thing but I got some 3rd party pride out of this.
Dad use to use a special driver made to wrap wire on circutboard pins prior to soldering. Imagine trying to find one now with all electronics treated as disposable.
It's called, oddly enough, a "wire-wrap tool", and you can still get them from Grainger, Digi-key, Jameco, etc. in hand-twisted, squeeze-twisted, and electric versions (depending on how much you want to spend, and how fast you need to work).
@@cdorcey1735 A good wire-wrapped prototype board is a thing of beauty. You don't often see them anymore with ultra-cheap custom PCBs being so readily available nowadays.
I have a tiny version of this from Harder & Steenbeck that is used when replacing the needle packing on their airbrushes. It doesn't have a retractable tip though, since that's not needed for that application.
Love this type of content. I almost used threaded inserts in my woodworking project last year and was wondering about this process; I even watched a couple videos, but those barrel nut drivers weren't mentioned!
A similar tool is used when building bike wheels - it's used for screwing the spoke nipples on. It has a depth limiter pin screwed into the tool that can be adjusted to a desired depth, to keep all spokes initially at the same length. Then you tension them with a slotted spoke wrench.
Loved that sturdy metal junction box. A thing of beauty, a joy for ever. That'd make an awesome enclosure for an electronics project!
I would store the barrel nut screwdrivers with the barrel nuts.
Used to be able to get various sized barrel-nut drivers for manual tap'n'die toolsets. There are also special barrel-nut-like inserts called Helicoil that need an external containment cylinder with center relief slot driving tip that goes in past the little tail at the top. I _know_ you know about Helicoil but I really thing more people should.
"Maybe I need a specialty screwdriver draw" I felt that. I 𝒌𝒏𝒐𝒘 exactly what that feels like!
I love Adam having a lot of unique tools for his cave
I went to the Theater to see Dune Part 2. During the movie I kept thinking about: Man it would be so cool if Adam made a one day build of the Worm Thumper
"Real engagement", good description of this video.
Super! I have had one for years and did not know what it was for!
NO WAY
My first (legit) job back in 1990 /91 was building those enclosures for COMSACO, and I remember those barrel nut drivers!
That's so cool and I had no idea about this tool. Every day is a school day.
I just realized the answer to all problems is a stress relieved stamp. I feel better already! 😮
I have a small one I got in 1970 when I worked for Sothern Bell in Miami - it was used for the screws for the plugs on the 551/555 and 602 operator cord board that were use behind the 701 step by step switch - this was before electronic central offices were everywhere -
If they ever form an Olympic Rolling-Stool team I would nominate Adam to captain it!
I have learned about so many unique tools thanks to this channel. Even though I don't have a use for most, I want to own all of them!
That's a lovely gift!
For those that don't have access to such awesome tools, they make inserts with internal hexes, for use with allen wrenches. They're a little different, with an angled flange, so take tiny bit more space, YMMV.
Now you need a whole new section of tools called "Tools I don't know about yet". All empty drawers, waiting for the unknown.
This is the first I'm hearing about heat press fit inserts. I obviously missed the video where they were mentioned before...
Adam, you may have just saved the lives of 4 or 5 pieces of vintage stereo equipment by facilitating a few repair jobs just by mentioning those. Thank you.
Sometimes sound engineer here (theatre folks will understand) and the ones you first showed off look like the type that convert a US mic clip to a Euro mic stand. I’ve been using the head of a house key to turn these for years. Interesting to see an actual tool for the application.
A specialty screwdriver drawer/box that is made entirely out of things that need specialty screwdrivers. Now that would be savage =)
As always a pleasure to watch and learn,it makes me feel better to watch a person who is comfortable with their own personality,stay safe.
The two non-orange sortemos mixed with the all orange, while the 3 additional orange ones are chillin with the mixed colors is making my eye twitchhh😳😂
I use to work on those junction type boxes when I was in the Navy. We had a set of 1/4" sockets to remove and install the barrel nuts. The inside of the sockets were very similar to the screwdriver tips as shown but did not have the spring loaded tip. The sockets worked fantastic for the junction boxes but did not work on barrel nuts going into something flush. I had thought of bringing a set of the sockets home with me when I left the Navy but they were a pain to get and I new my shipmates would need them a whole lot more than I woiuld.
Great video, Adam. As a woodworker I have long struggled with threaded inserts. Barrel nut screwdrivers? Who knew?
If put a screw of the right thread size with two nuts screwed onto the screw you can drive these with a Phillips head screw driver. The nuts ensure you can remove the screw without unscrewing the barrel nut. Just hold the nut closer to the barrel nut with a pair of needle nose pliers. They are hard to install at a perfect 90 degrees, but if you follow the manufacturers drill size suggestion they go right in. McMaster-Carr sells them and gives specs on the right drill size. They also sell the drill bits. Great topic. I use these things all the time.
This is so weird, as we are always told in Germany that the slot is functioning as a thread cutter to cut its own thread. So it has to go first. The proper tool to insert these is more or less a piece of thread on a handle.
I love those cultural differences in technology!
Regards,
Etna.
This would leave a second cut 180 degrees from the correct thread cut weakening your joint significantly if it was a correct method of action.
How so? You have one complete thread. The position of the cuts is irrelevant as you follow the same thread.
Regards,
Etna.
Pro Tip of the Week
If you want pristine, unmarred slotted screw heads, use screwdrivers made for gunsmithing.
They are designed specifically not to damage the screw slots.
There are also threaded inserts with hex key compatibility, which are awesome when there are many to install since you can use an impact
Amazing! Hopefully one day you'll open and build that super cool Cyclone model kit!
Thanks Chris and Adam, its always a great day when i learn something new
My life would have been so much easier if I had known about these screwdrivers when I was Navy!
Brilliant!!! In Australia we call these Threaded Inserts or Nut Inserts. I too have many times mangled the slot attempting to thread these into timber.
Another method to thread the inserts into timber is to thread a bolt with a lock (jam) nut into the insert and use a socket or allen key to drive the Barrel Nut into the timber.
I have just sent a message to Comsaco to ask if they will ship to Oz... Thanks for providing this info.
A tool I never knew existed. Need. Want. Must have.
I've been using a threaded rod coupler screwed over the threads of the barrel and insert the screwdriver inside it. I clamp pair of vice grips over the rod coupler level w/the wood if I need some added stability.
Snowboards, and sometimes snow skis, use threaded inserts to fasten the binding to the plank. _(Quiver Killers)_
DAMN! THAT'S A JUNCTION BOX!!!
Never knew such a tool existed. I bunged up some terminals like those you showed in that junction box. Wow , I wonder if I can convince the wife "It's a tool I don't have" . 😅
They ... they .. make those? GOD DAMMIT!! Why have I been struggling all these years?
Adam is so genuine. I love it.
I have made a little jig from a piece of scrap wood. Half-lap on one side and threaded it a hole in the middle of the half-lap. Take a bolt and nut to crack it vertically into the wood.
“Munged” that’s a new one for me, I like it.
I love it when videos are posted out of sequence :) The Lab oven isn't modified with the temperature gauge yet ;o)
I always use a bolt and jam nut then install them with either a nut driver or wrench or socket. Same way I remove them whenever I dismantle something and salvage the hardware. Some of them don't have the slot and it's the only way. It always works best to tighten a little before removing.
What a beautiful demonstration of the utility of your new sortimo drawer system
I'd opt for a small basket/toolbox. These won't be out for every build, but when you need weird screwdrivers, you'll grab the whole kit.
Stress relieved means that, after forming, but before machining the flange on the front to make it flat, and do the drilling and tapping to allow the face to mount, they were taken, placed in an inert atmosphere oven, and heated up to something between 600 to 800F, or 315 to 420C, and left there for a few hours to allow the brass to relieve all the stress from forming, so it is soft, and will not split under impact, just deform. Then final machined, and provided with that protective layer of lacquer to keep it good during storage. That way when you go to drill the holes for the conduits you only have soft metal, and there will be no splitting or hard spots in the brass. In a submarine you really want watertight joint boxes, as this keeps the connections from corroding, and the soft brass allows a good seal as it deforms when the conduit is tightened, making a metal to metal hermetic seal. You can have it under sea water for 10 years, and open it up to a shiny inside still.