“The Decision of the Century”: Choosing EUV Lithography
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- Errata:
2:28 - I should make more clear differences between Proximity and Projection Lithography. Both have a gap, but projection includes a lens
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Personally, I really enjoy the lithography videos. There isn't any other content like this on TH-cam.
True. This will change my understanding. Please make video on mems optics and mems sensor.
I can spot bs from 10 miles away when "analysts" talk about this business now. Like bruh... I watched every Asianometry video..... It's amazing how many people get to come on TV or other places as "experts" who don't have 1/5th the knowledge on the subject as what's been presented here. This is the future, it's insane how many people are half ass learning about this when it matters so much for so many different fields. I don't understand how people in finance can talk about tech without having a decent understanding of semiconductors as it drives most companies now.
@@47lokeshkumar74 he already did two videos on MEMS and MEMS optics.
Indeed! Hell, I’ve watched all of them several times and often wished they were longer! I always want more…
Best in class videos for sure
Sad to hear the lithography videos don’t seem to do well. They’re some of my favorites and I hope you can find time for a few more.
Thanks. I appreciate it. Let's see if I can dig up something from somewhere.
same, these videos are so fascinating to me
my favorite videos too
To be honest, the main reason I'm subscribing is because of the lithography videos...
@@Asianometry It is my favorite series of yours, but please keep doing whatever you feel like!
Don’t shy away from more lithography videos, obviously if they add insight (which you have a keen sense for), you have shown you are the guy to make them. Thanks!
Absolutely agree.
Totally agree. Don't focus too much on the viewer numbers - do what you're interested in!
I'm keen to hear about Nano Imprint Lithography
I know... I know... Encore... Encore... What next? Looking forward to another EU Video (oops EUV video)!
please go on with these video's
I know it sucks when your video doesn't seem to get appreciated by the masses, but you're doing great work here. There are a thousand economic/tech history channels. What you put out with these is unique. Perhaps consider making these for a separate channel, or make a series?
I second this! Literally one of my few favorite channels I repeatedly watch.
jon has almost half a million subscribers, not sure what you mean
A new channel seems foolhardy, but perhaps I misunderstand the TH-cam algorithm.
@@percyvile it's called "siloing" and it can be more effective than having one channel if you seem to have two separate groups of subscribers watching different subsets of your content. It used to be normal to post a gaming video one day, then a vlog the next, and a range day video on the third, all on the same channel, but over the last few years people have realized that their disparate videos perform better on sepaprate channels.
Really makes sense imo. If i sub to a channel exclusively for the highly technical videos about lithography etc. i dont wanna sift through all the vlogs on the same channel to get to the good stuff.
I appreciate these technical level videos you’ve put out there.
They have the same tone and ‘flavour’ as the old articles from pre-1995 Scientific American.
They aren’t meant for technical specialists already in the industry but they aren’t fluff videos which give little new understanding, the audience are more sophisticated non-specialists willing to use their brains to learn something new.
Your videos require the viewer to actually ‘think’ about the material and do a little work at trying to grasp the content.
Well done.
Trying to figure how to say exactly what you said. This is exceptional.
Totally agree with the Scientific American reference. Have been reading SciAm continuously since 1972.
This video is exactly what I was looking for, an overview of the complexity scale and sheer madness of those printing machines that create our digital civilization. I asked myself the question wether this obviously over engineered monstrosities have alternatives that could be invented by china for example. The video put some light on the complexity of engineering, research and economics that led to the current designs. I would love for him to dive even deeper into hypothetical alternatives and future development
Right!
I really miss the "tone and ‘flavour’ as the old articles from pre-1995 Scientific American." What a joy it was and it is no more.
One small correction: As you said, first came contact printing, and then they provided a small gap between the mask and the wafer. This is call proximity printing. This greatly reduced defects. But to get to even more resolution, they moved the mask away from the wafer and put a lens in between the mask and the wafer. This is what is called projection printing or lithography. The image of the mask is projected onto the wafer. This was done at first across the whole wafer. To further improve resolution, they made step and repeat systems to project onto a small area of the wafer at a time. These are the steppers that we have to this day, but of course with increasingly higher resolution with every generation of the steppers.
You're right. I'll correct this. Thanks
And now even each step prints by scanning. (at least if I understood correctly)
@@musaran2 actually, @2:36 there is an image of the Perkin Elmer "Micrascan". (the image says, "Stepper" - but it was the first "step-and-scan" system.) Eventually, PE got out of the litho market, selling the litho business to Silicon Valley Group (SVG) - and spinning off their e-beam business as "Etec." SVG was then acquired by ASML in 2001 - as PE had great optics technology needed for the then planned (and ill-fated) 157nm.
There is actually one more historical shift and that is from steppers to scanners. The former projects the entire die/mask image onto the wafer and then steps to the next one. Modern scanners only illuminate a narrow slice (due to limitations of the 193nm lasers) and simultaneously translate the mask and the wafer to expose the entire die design.
No please do not stop these! I love the nitty gritty tech lore!!! I hope others feel the same because you do a very good job on delivering highly technical articles in a way my smooth brain can comprehend.
These videos are amazing, there's so little good content about the semiconductor industry. I can't even begin to imagine how much research this takes and the headaches of trying to access a lot of it (proprietary information and such). Thank you.
Your Lithography videos are what brought me to the channel in the first place.
There are very few others that provide this level of detail and insight in this crucial industry.
for what it's worth, I love the lithography-focused videos
It's crazy how photons, electromagnetic Wave's, frequency, energy, vibration, mass. Are such fundamental aspects of EVERYTHING in our Cosmo's.
I work on photolithography equipment and personally never thought the day would come that EUV - with high cost/insane optic specs/stochastic defects/relatively low throughput - would be a mass market tool. Which really it isn't - there are only 3 or 4 companies using it at scale - due to "the 'juice not being worth the squeeze". It's simply too expensive and too few applications exist where EUV somehow improves the chip performance enough to justify the price. Plain old i-Line/248/193/193i DUV still makes the vast majority of chips you use today and will use in the future.
I suspect we're nearing the end of the road where we can keep making chips faster/cheaper by making them smaller. EUV will probably be the last generation of chip making equipment intended to go smaller and smaller, and quantum tunneling issues will determine at what size we stop.
They were scarring us with quantum tuneling for a long time. It is all mater of probability. If we could somehow know if electron had tunneled so we would not count it as a signal. Then we could decrease the size even thurther and dill with height probability of tuneling
@@pavlomelnyk3188you basically just ”if we could do something impossible, it would be possible!”
I love your videos on EUV! I studied engineering, and still the entire process, the machines, the insane precision required, everything, still seems almost magical.
I don’t want LESS videos on the technology related to EUV. I want more!
Would love a that video on the future of Lithography after EUV
Actually, the Dutch company Mapper had a working multi beam electron beam lithography machine. 1800 parallel beams, if I'm not mistaken.
I am not 100% sure how I found your channel but your presentation style. It’s awesome. And I’m learning so much. Please don’t stop.
I really enjoy these lithography videos, they are insightful and technical without being inaccessible. Your semiconductor videos probably give some of the best and most historical overview on the topic on the internet. I'm always happy to see them.
... maybe less popular, but probably the most important. I was a coder in the early 80’s, writing the code that controlled the wafers traveling into and out of the quartz tube (on a quartz ‘boat’) to be heated,exposed to various gasses,etc. I moved on, but still code (a lot). It’s beyond remarkable how so many tools I wished I had access to then and over the years, are now so available.
Knowing the historical steps, ie, the what,why,when and where, etc, is hard to bring together. But you are serving up that history in a way that’s easier to digest than most sources. I’ve been surprised when you present other topics in such a similar way. They are all fascinating ... please don’t avoid this one though. It’s really the center pin so much advancement in every other arena.
Dude, it were those lithography videos that made me back you on patreon. Basically, it is your videos that I inform myself of what's going on in the industry in general. And that is the industry I found myself being a part of recently, as Festo produces compressors that are used by Zeiss to create low-defect mirrors for EUV.
Keep it on!
I agree with others' sentiment: please don't stop doing lithography videos, especially coverage of new developments. As you acknowledge, staying across this stuff requires a ton of research, and that's a tremendous gift to pass on - and you have a tremendous gift for conveying it. Your coverage is more than just insightful - it's an antidote to the frustration I share with many downstream consumers, to whom today's market conditions often elicit a certain cynicism of ignorance, which is a burden - "enlightening" would be a better word.
I appreciate that you have to consider viewership in choosing the topics you invest so much time on. In light of that, I pledge to increase my level of support on patreon and perhaps others who would wish for a continued focus on these less popular topics can do so too (and let you know). I don't care about membership tiers and special benefits: the content is special enough.
Keep up the great work, your videos are in a class of there own. Almost 500k!
EAN: Extreme Asia Nometery
AsiaNoMeTry
Available at your favourite Asian food places? 😝😘
@@googlehomemini2059 my Google Home Mini keeps answering me in Portuguese, and my old roommate did Brazilian jujitsu, do I need to blame her?
The amazing thing about all this is the extent that sub-wavelength litho engineering really saved the day. Don't get me wrong, I am amazed when I look at the opening sequence and see that huge stainless proto EUV tool at ASML. Huge, klunky, lots of nuts and bolts and round doors sealing up various vacuum compartments. and to think that somehow they compressed all that crap into a standard footprint of any 193 tool. Just nuts. But beyond the notion of immersion, without the wild masks, or the various apertures or the super-clever OPC software, or the other many techniques and damn-near tricks - EUV progress would never have had enough time to meet up with Moore's Law. My hats off of course to the EUV geniuses. But more-so - to those who extended 193 beyond what was imaginable in the 1990s - extending a lifeline to NGL for at least another decade.
I'm almost more impressed with 193 than EUV tbh. I feel like everyone knew EUV would work, and the battle was always economical viability. (Then we perfected tin droplets which tipped the scale and the rest is history.) However, the sub wavelength patterning done with 193 blows my mind. Are we talking half the wavelength? No, try 1/5, and that's apparently _before_ taking multiple patterning into account. Learning about this broke my assumptions about the physics of light.
I really only started following your channel for the Lithography videos as other have said, you do a great work on these subjects that not alot of people even talk about. so thank you for them!
You know what's crazy, a year ago, I watched your video on the renegade genius of TSMC Liang and I thought to myself.. "could I work there?" Well 4 months later and some motivation I was. And what's more crazy is the Fujifilm video came out a week ago now, and I'm going to do some work with them in a couple of weeks. Now I'm hoping I can be the guy to work on EUV! ( I love your content, you do many a great thing with letting it be on youtube!)
IMS Vienna afterwards switched from ions to electrons a created multibeam mask writer, which also allowed writing complex layouts on EUV masks in approx 10h, much shorter than with VSB writer.
I wonder if the next (waaaay next) gen tech will be a form of additive construction rather than subtractive lithography.
Like how we're starting to print metal rather than machine a billet.
I'm doubtful because it seems like it would be difficult to use a mask that way. You could essentially sputter coat but, put a mask between the source and the substrate. But this would likely clog the mask real quick, making the mask essentially single use. Or, you could not use a mask, but instead use a focused ion beam to draw a vector image. I've heard of FIBs used in silicon reverse engineering where they can draw a conductive track between two points, basically a nano scale patch wire. This works in principle, but it would probably take years to finish a single die with billions of transistors. Just like with 3D printing it would be slow as hell because you can only process one tiny spot at a time.
The speed would be ridiculously slow. I suppose it might have some use in prototyping, but that's it: No-one wants a fab that pops out a chip every few hours.
No masks, just adding the material.
Think of things like resin or powder fusing machines, lay down material, fuse it with photons, wash away unfused material.
Or direct material deposition, at the atomic level.
Not a single beam either, think millions of elements, each can manipulate those atoms.
Hell, at some point it'll be a commodity item in your home and HP will remind you that your rare earth cartridge is low.
the lithography videos are peak content. extremely important to understand the niche technologies that shape every aspect of our lives. there so little content about it, especially on youtube, despite its colossal importance.
thank you for your content. I am an engineer with a bachelors in semiconductor processing. your videos reinvigorate me to continue studying semi processing to be able to one day contribute to next gen ideas in the semi world and be respected for my experience even with just studying a bachelors. thank you
I love the lithography "series" and would happily bingewatch a few more 😄
I really enjoy your lithography videos, I can’t find anything like them anywhere on TH-cam and it’s always nice to watch deep science/engineering dives on the part of the computer industry that is rarely shown. Keep up the good videos!
Greatly appreciate your work Asianometry. Thank you for putting this video out. Great stuff!
I automatically know I am going to enjoy the content you put into your presentations as well as the delivery. This modern history's story is so totally fascinating, especially since it all happened during my lifetime, and until recently I knew nothing of it. Oh sure, snippets on the news and etc, but nothing like what you put forth.
It's so great, thanks!
I love your lithography videos.
I've been patiently waiting for this "runners up" video
Even though this video will have less views, I appreciate this video and its research a lot. It's really one of the few sources that makes these concepts accessible and as an aspiring semiconductor engineer I really appreciate the overview
Having left the semiconductor industry in the 1970s and not kept up with developments, this gives me a fascinating insight into how the 'future' panned out.
I love these lithography videos and I love the fact you have podcast versions, so that I can listen to it download at work it’s perfect please never stop ❤
These are absolutely fascinating and have information that I would otherwise find very hard to find, please keep making them :)
Making chips with multiple e beams is tried by the company MAPPER. They went bankrupt and got acquired by ASML. Probably because MAPPER was located in the Netherlands, like ASML, allowing ASML to buy some interesting patents and people nearby their HQ.
I absolutely love your lithography videos. Some of the best and the only current videos im aware of in that region; I watch ever single one of them. Most others ive seen are much to simplified to be interesting to me, ive already had the basics explained in my technical computer science courses, but i enjoy your presentation and that i actually get to learn new things.
Please keep them up, if you can (I can understand that you might not be able to if they perform poorly, thats OK although i will miss them dearly)
Love your channel man, and all the great, high quality information you share. This is one of my favorite channels and I tell others about it every chance I get.
Technical videos for technical people without the clickbait. What's not to love.
i love these videos, its how i found you and subbed in the first place so dont by shy about doing a good technical video every now and then!
The lithography videos are one of if not my fav series you do, and satisfy the itch I get from lack of info on the subject elsewhere on the net.
The SOHO solar observatory and the development of EVU optics for it was an important side quest on this journey.
I've heard EUV will take us to atomic scale resolutions, which is pretty much the end of that road. 😅 I suppose self assembled nano structures might be after that, but we still need some way to organize them into a complete device.
Your lithography videos are one of my favorite videos on TH-cam ever! Don't you dare ever stop doing them! :)
Thank you very much for visiting this again. The question of if any of the options that were set aside in favor of EUV could take over when EUV has run it's course has been at that back of my head since I first watched that other video you did. As soon as I saw you were doing another video covering the decision of the century I clicked on it and watched the whole thing.
Wow! Thank you for this wonderful capture of research developments over multiple decades with excellent short coverages of the various technologies that were potentially considered possible... and viable, for the times ahead.
Love your videos including those on litho and history of technology. You cover and talk about aspects of these stories that I don't encounter elsewhere. Keep up the great work!
The lithography videos are probably the most important teaching resource for anyone interested in international relations, geostrategic policy and warfare today. Peter Zeihan ought to direct his viewers to you for the deep dive into topics he gives the birds eye view on as far as security in the pacific goes.
Dude...im sorry your first EUV video didn't do as well, but I learned sooooo much about EUV and lithography in the chip space in general from you. Fantastic work as usual.
Your lithography videos are what drew me to your channel and are my favorite.
This was eyeopening. Please don't stop.
Fascinating work! You summarized decades of different lines of research well.
I had exactly the same question for a long time that you stated at the end there. Thank you for investigating this deeply for us.
I Really love your lithography videos. Technical details makes me think about the extreme complexity of a technology almost every human uses and give for granted.
Amazing video man! Keep doing them, lithography is so interesting.
Don’t let view numbers totally rule your choice of topics. I enjoy the litho and other tech topics. You have given me greater appreciation of the challenges that goes into chip making.
I have no experience in this area, but your videos are always a great watch. Also very impressed by your out put, thanks for posting 🎉
The GDR semiconductor video is one of my favorites that you've done! Thank you for the tip on the spy series on Curiosity Stream! I find what East Germany was able to do with what they had absolutely fascinating.
These lithography videos are my absolute favourite! I really love finding out about this stuff.
I love these Lithography videos. I work in EEE and this kind of EEE Lore is impossible to find elsewhere in such a concise accessible format. Love your other work too keep it up.
I just found your channel the other day, my partner recommended your lithography videos. Great content! ☺️
Your channel is still growing nicely.
All your research and video's are real great work. Thank you Mr. Asianometry!
please keep doing these lithography videos. I love these videos
Yeah I love these pieces too. How I found the channel and have stayed because there is so much varied content and it is all excellent
Thumbs up and subscribed!
This channel is so good!
absolutely love your videos
I love the lithography videos!! Please don't feel like no one enjoys them! It's always fascinating to see the journey lithography has taken to get to where we are today!!
As always thank you for the amazing video!!
Really interesting. A very complex subject well dealt with. Thank you for sticking it out 😊
3:30 Steppers is incorrectly labeled as $200,000 when you are saying $200,000,000
Your channel is awesome! I love this video as well. One comment though I think the biggest reason it's called EUV instead of soft x-ray is because at the time x-ray lithography at these wavelengths was tried many times but highly unsuccessful. So many PI's were most likely tired of hearing people wasting their time with this. So I think the decision was more to make it sound more appealing and avoid the large stigma towards x-ray lithography. Kinda a sales decision rather than an accuracy one if that makes sense.
can't wait for the next lithography video! Thanks
Thank you for making this beautifully nerdy content. Amazing work! ❤
Keep doing these types of videos. Some of us have followed this for along, long time. People don't fully appreciate the big bets taken over literally decades on the semiconductor industry.
Can you do a video on Gen 8+ OLED machines?
Hahahaha this video was hilarious. You really had too much fun producing it. Captivating as always
Started watching your semiconductor videos as preparation for my job interview at ASML and will keep watching them. I have more knowledge about the history and players in the industry than most of my colleagues. Most comes from your videos.
Love these in depth lithography videos. It's very interesting to learn about the history and technique that's literally powering our world as it is.
Great EUV video! Thank you for sharing!!
One of your best videos so far. Well done. In the future please could you be more specific about which computers or devices these developments supported. This would be very helpful for those of us not in the industry.
Absolutely love your lithography videos! Thx so much
What a great and in-dept video!
Kudos for making such a well researched video on EUV lithography.
Well done sir! You provide insight and historical context that you won't find anywhere else.
i'm sorry that i ddin't appreciate your video regarding lithography enough. My real life for the past 2-3 months has been quite busy and i felt i need to watch something light on youtube. But i'll try to watch your videos more. I can't thank you enough for all videos you make and publish in this channel 🥰🥰
love the lithography videos! thank you for doing all this research!
I have learned an incredible amount about modern computing from these videos. Thank you.
How fascinating! Thanks for making this video.
As someone in the industry, thanks for the details on the origins of EUV.
I am here for your lithography videos!
19:42 Hey isn't that command and conquer? It was a pretty damn good game.
lol your lithography videos are the ones I never skip over. I like them.
Really informative and interesting video, thanks for the effort
I have come to appreciate your methodic yet meme enhanced articulation as it gets my creative juices flowing. To this I have a question, did you find any mention of optical techniques performing 99% of the work with a slower technique finishing the last 1%?
Another amazing video, sad to hear the other lithography video didn't do well, to me they're the most interesting.
This channel is absolutely fantastic. I'm looking for more channels like this, that focus on different industries. Any recommendations?
OHHH another lithography video , my FAVOURITE. but seriously it is nice to know the politics and the other events that happened to make the chip that is sitting in my computer
Litography videos are awesome. Probably the most complicated machines in existence. I'm not happy that they don't do well, because they should be fascinating for anyone interested in your channel.
It also helps my fascination that I actually work on these machines. The domain keeps me when the actual tech is horrible.
I used to work for Atmel in their photolithography section with ASML steppers.