@1:10 - Greg said unambiguously that Fat Shark had designed the goggles while leaving room for the "partner" to place the board. Drew later told me he had seen engineering drawings of the goggles as early as a year ago. But if they had these goggles on deck, then why did they release the Scout? Why wasn't the Scout this goggle?
What was the scout? probably something they had started designing at the launch of the sharkbyte system, They prob had just started the manufacturing phase when they committed to this move, so they just made one run, cleared a bunch of the Vrx with the fire sale, then dropped the google to recoup some cost and only produced the one run of them ...
@Joshua Bardwell, in your video, Greg says (14:43) "I wouldn't say Fat Shark is actually spearheading development on it." With that in mind, I think a reasonable theory is that Fat Shark provided industrial design for the goggles, while the majority of the technicals were handled by the "partner". That makes the goggles being "designed by Fat Shark" technically true while not really covering the whole of the goggle's development. To go further, an industrial design can take whatever electronic guts, although possibly with some changes. So, originally, this form factor could have been intended to house a DiviMath/HDZero-based system, then when that relationship went away, this design had it's guts switched to this new system. That would explain the "2 year design" quote from Greg and the engineering diagrams Drew saw. The "PVT" Scout HD support debacle and abrupt discontinuance of the Shark Byte VRX and Fat Shark-branded VTX models would indicate a sudden switch away from HDZero tech in Fall of 2021, rather than a graceful, well-planned transition.
There is a possibility FatShark designed of the goggles and cross licensed that design back to WalkSnail for their Avatar goggles. But if so that would be a first for FatShark to allow another company to sell their design without FatShark branding. In think it more likely that WalkSnail owns the design and manufacturing with FatShark's significant input over the last year or more.
@@ChrisRosser I'm seeing it as a share of knowledge. Fatshark wouldn't have a HD system without Walksnail, and Walksnail wouldn't have a google design that works 100% without Fatshark. Greg certainly sounded like he made the call on optics, and screens (size and type) in JB's video. So I really feel the above is true. This is my only concern with upcoming HDZero's googles, if Carl was to say that he has had help from Skyzone I'm all in.
@6:00 - I think you are mostly on the mark here, but I disagree that DJI is giving P1 chips to Caddx/Walksnail. Greg made some comments saying he was concerned about DJI's response, "when they find out." I pressed him and Allan on whether DJI was behind the product, and they both had a kind of smirk when they said, "It's NOT DJI," that felt like, "If you only knew...."
Its just excuse, clearly the point is not if DJI is giving them the P1 chips or not, but is that they using the P1 chip, so why not make it compatible with devices that use already this chip, means vista , airunit and Dji googles?
I wrote about this almost 3 years ago under your videos. the development, manufactoring and selling is in most cases not in one company and for sure not DJI. i still wonder how DJI got the exclusive contract so long :-). is there any person which can say for sure who developed or produced the P1 chip? cant see the DJI Label on it. Is DJI really allowed to sell the P1 chips, or is it only a customer like all others? For me, DJI is only the brand with the best contracts in this market.
Interesting. An employee of DJI registered WalkSnail so it seems unlikely DJI don't know all about it. It may very well be that some 3rd party built this system and licensed the tech to DJI. From a technology point of view avatar and DJI are still the same core technology and potentially interoperable. There is also clearly massive know how transfer and probably source code between the projects.
Yep maybe the design (P1 chip+RF part+software) is from another company, and it has been licensed to DJI with a 3 years exclusivity, and we'll start seing other companies using the same chips now... And some of them may open the compatibility with original air units. Anyway from my point of view, there really isn't anything exciting... :IQ and latency is the same, the OSD is ugly AF (even though it could be useful to get gps coordinates in the DVR for long range...) , it also looks buggy, and without knowing for sure who is behind the product, I have little hopes for it being fixed soon.
In case you are watching this a few days after release here is an update on what I understand the situation is: 1. This system is not sanctioned by DJI. Caddx/Walksnail have engineered this system independently. I understand that DJI may be upset by this and this may affect DJI/Caddx relatioship going forward. 2. The system is not running on P1 but other similar hardware which may be off the shelf or custom for Caddx/Walksnail. 3. I still believe there has been significant knowledge transfer from the DJI FPV system. Now this may or may not include code/IP but the similarities are striking to say the least. 4. The AvatarHD goggle doesn't seem to actually exist and the picture shown was a prototype of the Dominator goggle so it reamins to be seen if WalkSnail will release their own goggle.
@chris, you didn't touch on the rumor that this is a way for DJI tech to be sold into the US government. Too speculative or not wanting to draw attention?
With all these new HD options coming out, I'm glad I still run analog. Only cus, I was going to make the switch earlier this year to DJI, now I think I'll let the dust settle 1st see who comes out on top. Thanks for the breakdown.
Thank-you - most objective discussion of this I’ve seen, and I agree, this is good for FPV - I had not expected it to be compatible with existing DJI equipment, still not sure, but that’d be really awesome if so
Even if you can only spectate Fatshark HD on DJI goggles and vice versa, it will be a big step forward. If it is actually based on the dji chipset, full compatibility is just a matter of the goodwill of programmers and marketing specialists from both companies.
@@ChrisRosser A person asked Greg and Drew whether the system could be compatible with existing DJI FPV system, and Drew answered that it was technically possible, but unlikely to actually be done.
Thanks for the information JB. With the DJI system recently being rooted I wonder if the old gear could be made compatible with Avatar? If so then the timing of the discovery of the root hack seems almost too fortuitous...
I'm always scared when there is a single option on the market. Hdzero is struggling to get relevant and orqa is gonna have a hard time too since they chose a sw based solution... Guess I'll stick to analog for a little longer
I think your right on but I think Fatshark did design the goggles and Walksnail has the VTX hardware/software and the VRX for the goggles. So fatshark gives Walksnail the goggle design and Walksnail gives fatshark the VTX design to brand as well so we have both fatshark and Walksnail systems. Hopefully they’re compatible with each other.
@@ChrisRosser I think FatShark likely designed / manufactured the goggle casing. If you look at the image linked to at the end of this post, the side profile along with the grey/white colouring looks like a shark nose sticking out the front of your face (compare them to the image on Greg's top). So now you have a choice of whether you want to look like an alien (DJI FPV Goggles) or a shark (FatShark Dominator HD goggles) when flying FPV 😂 i.imgur.com/sY36rDBl.jpg
Hi Chris. Great video, but allow me to clear up some confusion that's surrounding the DJI P1 chip based on our reverse engineering efforts. Namely, the P1 is not nearly as custom as people seem to believe. Yes, it's spun at the fab for DJI specifically (the silicon has DJI ROM code in the mask), but as far as we can tell (and we've been through the entire firmware), it's comprised entirely of standard IP blocks. The "secret sauce" is their combination of a 4G derived basedband that runs on a standard ARM core in an RTOS combined with DSPs in the SoC and the IE1000 RF front end and a latency optimized video pipeline with fast h264 encoders/decoders. So, all the special sauce is in the end just SDR code which is entirely programmable and _not_ burned into the silicon as people seem to suggest. The P1 is very likely to be a derivate of some Leadcore SoC design, which DJI were using previously. What that in mind, it's entirely possible that this is running on some newer Leadcore SoC, with either licensed, "borrowed" or reverse engineered code. Or even some other 4G mobile SoC where they have low level access to the baseband infrastructure. Considering we know DJI and Caddx are winding down the current gen (retailer stock notices) and that DJI will soon be announcing their next gen (see my latest tweets on @fpv_wtf if you're not aware), I'm leaning heavily towards DJI and Caddx breaking up and this being a "clone" system of one sort or another. Which kind remains to be seen. I could of course be totally wrong on the latter, but my point about the P1 not being some kind of silicon level unobtanium magic 100% stands. It's basically an ARM mobile SoC with a flexible 4G baseband, _not_ some DJI designed super custom video encoding ASIC.
This is a great summary thank you for the information! I think I am in agreement with you. It may well be that this new Avatar system is based on a different SOC with a compatible architecture. If you have access to the know how, source code, and electronics design from DJI it would be relatively easy to re-engineer the entire system from scratch. But the question remains how they got access to that know how and used it without infringing IP. Avatar also boasts about H265 encoding which could be a step up from the H264 that is presumably used in DJI FPV. Perhaps the new chip uses H265 hardware encoders that are now available?
@@ChrisRosser Yup, the H265 encoding supports that theory. DJI is also moving to it in their next gen devices. The P1 is being used purely as modem in those cases, with the encoding happening on an E2 or E3T (also "custom" DJI silicon). It's not beyond the realm of possibility of reverse engineering all this based on publicly available firmware packages and encryption keys, but it'd certainly still be a massive effort. Seems more likely it has something to do with the people behind Caddx having worked at DJI at some point like we've been hearing. There's also some talk of DJI searching for a leak right now. But that's all hearsay. We'll know for sure once the devices are in hand or the firmware slips out.
I think new fatshark hd system may likely share the same Rf chip(ie1000) with dji, but using a smaller package image processor, different from dji p1, to make it possible to put all parts on single board.
No SD cars slow error because it uses onboard flash instead. Walksnail claims it’s been around since 2017, but domain registration in 2019. Flywoo is taking pre-orders for the Walksnail Avatar goggle and VTx, not they own branded version.
This is the best opinion I've heard of all this by far. Chris thank you for not trying to slam anyone. I totally agree they are trying to bring more options for us all to the table with some better options! Spot on vid 🤜 I'm just really excited to see this coming out no matter who it is.
There looks to be a slot underneath the VTX board for an SD card. The goggle OSD also has an element for recording running onboard the drone (like with the air unit)
Just a thought… Since legal barriers surrounding Counter-UAS are falling and adoption rates are climbing even with small municipalities AND that 95-100% of CUAS technologies focus solely on DJI transmission and transmission protocols, I reason that systems based on the P1 chip are more prone to unwanted data capture and decoding.
also.... teal is a drone manufacturer under redcat holdings. same as fat shark. they have their own low latency system. also do work with military. possible they licensed their tech to walk snail and fatshark to compete with dji since it would be in redcats interest to prop up their fpv companies with their own digital system.
A completely independently developed HD system that just happens to have identical specs, settings, modes and menus to DJI? That's a coincidence too far I think.
which source do we have that DJI was the producer and engineer of the hardware? in my view DJI was only the first exclusive contractor to the system. i think there was a brand behind all that companies, but not well known to the user market as DJI was and is.
This is definitely possible. There may be a third party that owns this tech and licensed it to DJI and now to WalkSnail. If that's the case then it doesn't change the fact that the tech in both systems is the same and could be compatible.
@@ChrisRosser i also think compatibility is possible and would be great. if i think 10 sec more i also have to admit, that no one except the customer wants that. :-(
Not sure why everyone says WalkSnail is a spin out of Caddx when their mark was applied for 2 years prior to Caddx and product first commercial use is years prior also. Ironically walksnails first application date is just before the release of DJIs V1 fpv goggle. The mark application everyone cites is just the HK registration not the original shenzhen. We have also come up on 5 years almost to the date which is a pretty standard exclusivity contract length of time.
I think the link between WalkSnail and Caddx has been confirmed officially now. WalkSnail was a Caddx brand for a long time and has now been spun out as a company.
I saw a behind the scenes tour of how Michael Bay's Ambulance action thriller was shot using footage from a drone flown by Alex Hanover and he was using DJI. In fact I think all the pilots making a career in film and commercial shoots are using DJI, so I think there is definitely a lucrative niche market outside of FPV hobbyists for this kind of low latency HD tech. DJI must know this so I doubt they'll be completely giving up their share of the pie. Sure they have just spun off a smaller company that can work more closely with the market while not risking their more valuable brand, but they'll still be making decent money on the silicon and calling the shots.
Great video Chris, and I hope that your speculations are as close to the truth as possible (if not on the nose), as that would bode well for the FPV community. Exciting times!
Chris, I worked in global tech for almost four decades and I believe a couple of your assumptions are off the mark. First, the assumption (hope) that DJI and Walksnail will ensure compatibility I suggest is a low probability. Consider DJI's habit of abandoning products, especially the FPV V1 and V2 goggles. It's laughable that they effectively put in place a dual-boot for the V2 to allow V1 compatibility. This move suggests to me that DJI does not have any interest in creating a virtual layer between evolving hardware and existing firmware. Rather, they re-write the firmware each time they create a new product. What then did DJI license to Walksnail from the P1 chipset? I imagine they licensed SOME firmware and Walksnail had to create a lot of code. This will effectively guarantee incompatibility with older air-unit and Vista graphics FPV graphics systems. I'm hopeful Walksnail has sufficient licensing to keep extending the function. What will be critical is when DJI updates the P1, what happens with Walksnail. A P1+ will likely require a firmware rewrite so if Walksnail has not created a thin, virtual layer, they will be faced with large rewrites.
I hope so! My dream is that all the DJI like systems end up interoperable and you can just pick and choose the goggle, camera and vtx you want. Everyone says they won't be but DJI/WalkSnail will make more money if they are because everyone with exisiting DJI gear will buy in immediately and that's a large number of pilots.
It seems people always assume that DJI manufacture and design everything they sell. Given the lack of branding on the P1 chip itself, it may well be that DJI did not design the chip (and did not manufacture it). Most companies that manufacture chips with high value IP tend to either brand the chip with a logo and/or the company name (think Intel, AMD, Samsung etc). Most ASIC chips I have seen have brands on them (Take a look at any Crypto ASIC chip). Generic chips without logo/or band name are usually designed/manufactured by third parties. Given that DJI like to slap their logo on everything they produce, the lack of brand on the P1 chip is a huge hint that they do not own the IP for it. It may well be that as part of DJI’s initial use of the P1 chip that there was an exclusivity clause in the contract that may now have expired. So perhaps Walksnail own the IP for the P1 or even another third party owns the IP and is now able to freely sell it to whomever. The “if you only knew…” that Joshua was referring to may just be that DJI never owned the IP in the first place.
This is definitely a strong possibility. From my perspective who owns the IP is interesting but not everything. When we say Avatar has "DJI inside" what I take from that is that whatever tech was in DJI (from whatever source) is also in Avatar and that therefore interoperability might be possible. The rooting of the DJI system to potentially allow interoperability with similar but different systems without DJI involvement is almost too fortuitous...
I think you are wrong about the googles. Fatshark are producing the goggles for Walksnail, not the other way around. Walksnail will do the software and VTX/RX hardware and Cameras(caddx), Fatshark will do the googless with the HD receiver from the Walksnail and that's it. For some reason WAlksnail also have version of the goggles with their branding - go figure. Other than that I think you nailed it. Cheers!
That might very well be true. I'm not sure why Fatshark would also sell the goggles as Avatar/Walksnail. Maybe that's part of their cross licencing agreement
In a way, DJI pretty much revolutionize the FPV industry in a short time. Previously, everybody said it was impossible (given the small market of FPV ). And DJI was like "alright, I got the money and R&D capability to produce digital FPV system, I'll sell the tech IP when the fpv population got hooked" in Rick Sanchez voice
Small companies are typically more efficient at serving small markets (in terms of revenue). Bigger companies are more efficient at serving bigger markets.
Is there any public information about DJI P1 - has DJI developed it in-house or is the firmware/logic licensed from somebody else and DJI just manufactures (via some big foundry in practice) the actual ASIC?
Not much public. As far as I know it's a custom chip developed for DJI. It may have been designed by DJI or more likely by a chip designer paid for by DJI (e.g. Leadcore) but it appears to be proprietary.
Your video actually makes a lot of sense with all this speculation out there. Hope a lot of what you said is the case! would love for my current vistas and AU's will be backwards compatible with the 1080p oled googles. That would definitely be their best play to keep all the heavily invested dji users.
I literally just bought both the DJI V2 goggles and the accompanying DJI fpv remote controller. The main reason I went this route is due to 250g weight restrictions, it's an all-in-one system. is canvas mode and 1080p worth the hassle of swapping over? Seems weight of (naked) units and latency aren't very different.. What should I do?
Your good with what you got. Imo it's the best out at the moment. Things may look different in 6 months, but that is always the case with fpv. I love my dji setup and have no interest in switching until there is something much better.
"DJI Inside" is fine with me although I too wish for some backward compatibility and wow what a great explanation on all of this! Yes, agree totally DJI will serve the hobby better and increase their profits by handing off the production and going to a ASIC OEM and tech licensing model. And benefit still from the rapidly evolving hobby side of things.
Fine with me too. I also completely understand that DJI will not want to brand it DJI. In order to hit cost and margin on this type of relatively low volume product WalkSnail will have less QC (quality control) than DJI would be happy with. It may simply be a brand reputation thing.
I wouldn’t hold my breath for the DJI air unit/vista support. Even if it would be possible technically, it would kinda interfere with their « Not DJI » narrative that they are trying really hard to make us believe.
That's true. I wonder if there is a link with the rooting of the DJI system recently. Maybe that's just conspiracy theories though. If there is the potential for new unofficial firmware for the air unit and vista to make it work with Avatar...
Sources at Rampage say categorically that Fat Shark created their own NEW Asic it is definitively NOT the P1 used by DJI.....As one source put it " the ASIC components are generically available....all it takes to make your own is money and engineering....Engineers change jobs , so if you hire a DJI engineer, you have a pretty good head start on getting a new system up and running. So no surprise that the new product looks much like DJI, but it is a "New Product". I don't think that you can get the improved performance offered by the Dominator with the P1 chip.....
There could be know how transfer from DJI. I haven't seen any improved performance with Dominator. 720p 120fps just like DJI and a 1080p mode. The P1 would be more than capable of 1080p 60fps if it can do 810p 144fps in the DJI drone.
this is Exactly what i was thinking. Plus the extra added benefit of separation giving them distance and possibly still making money in the Gov sector via chip manufacturing sales.
You made some good points...I can see hdzero have their space in market ,this will be expensive for some people looking to entry hd fpv,hdzero turning to open source,they and other brands can have a cheaper product specially for whoop market ,BNF drones and entry level fpv googles,Price make huge impact on sales.
Thanks Chris, very insightful. I think the thing you left out of your analysis was impact on competition. Most people like myself believe more competition, more choice, lower prices is better for consumers. I was hoping for a 3rd competitor with a completely new technology/Asic. WE still only have two choices DJI or HDZero. DJI is just moving into the background and letting Caddx/Walksnail front their proprietary technology....
I'm not sure a proliferation of different incompatible hd systems is good for the hobby. Ideally we'd have just one so you could always watch your buddies video feed like on Analog. Competition could then be through multiple manufacturers using the same chipsets.
@@ChrisRosser Historically a firm in a monopoly position (which would be the case if only a single ASIC available, regardless of the number of manufacturers) will maximize profits over needs of their end users.
This would make sense, but is Walksnail really lying to peoples faces when they say it doesn’t use a DJI chip, when users will be able to open it up and see in 2 months? Seems like a weird move to me.
I mean who knows. Maybe the P1 wasn't designed by DJI but by a 3rd party chip designer paid for by DJI and the avatar uses another chip designed by the same folks? Either way there is massive know how transfer from DJI here to know exactly what chip to build.
Makes a lot of sense Chris, great perspective. There is still the mystery of why Greg @ FS was trying to cover up the tech behind their new system. Perhaps in anticipation of another brand undercutting them on price for the same stuff? But that seems a bit to short sided on his part. But that isn't uncommon in this or other industries, same product being rebadged and sold under a more popular brand for dramatically different prices. Either way, I'm happy to see the DJI technology open up to other manufactures, it's only good for our community.
I think DJI probably don't want their name on this. They may not have control over manufacturing quality or firmware quality and if that's the case they wouldn't want to put their brand reputation at risk.
You said 2 things that made me need to ask morw You said caddx and walksnail were both registered by someone at DJI? does that mean DJI actually own caddx? Also you said its impossible to clone the P1 chip? Since Chinese manufacturers basically reverse engineer anything and everything, why can't this P1 simply be cloned? Rw fat shark, they lied BADLY on the JB interview so yeah,. I just prey all us with older vista's and goggles get canvass mode plus cross compatability.
It doesn't mean they are owned by DJI just that the person who registered both companies is employed by DJI so we might expect DJI know about WalkSnail and are somehow connected with them. Cloning an ASIC is impossible without the detailed design documentation as far as I know. ICs are one of the most robust forms of IP in the world because of this. However, DJI may have commissioned another ASIC design house (e.g. Leadcore) to design the P1 and it is possible the same design house could make something similar for someone else. This would require an intricate knowledge of the full tech stack of the DJI FPV system (at a level you would only have if you had designed it). So that probably only happens with DJIs blessing!
@@ChrisRosser sure I get that but still, it seems, odd. I need to dive a bit fepper here, the Chinese have literally reserved engineered rockets and satalites, I understand it's more who gets the tech but still, it's weird in this day and age that there is only a handful of people who can do this blows my mind, I'm not disagreeing, far from it mate, it just hurts my tiny mind lol
At the end of the day I feel it's encouraging that their is innovation and competition on the visual side of fpv. I have been flying for a year and decided to go analog due to the price and I wasn't certain if I would be able to make it through the learning curve. At the time I also figured hdzero would be my upgrade path. Today I don't feel that analog is the thing holding me back and although I almost pre-order a fatshark goggle I think I will wait until I see viable products shipping. Either way, time is on my side and I hope either hdzero or walk snail has a system that will suit my needs.
Yes, I'm in your camp. I bought the Sharkbyte VRX during the $100 flash sale but still haven't bought a VTX or camera (I was waiting for the 1W vtx) Seeing this new system made me want to sell my Sharkbyte VRX and aim for this instead - BUT - just like with Sharkbyte, I am going to wait a while - let my TH-cam subs test it and review it - THEN i'll decide......
Very diplomatic of you to call Walksnail anything other than a shell company created by DJI to skirt international law. "Partners" yeah ok. The shell is literally on the snail's back.
all great news for fpv but such a messy release - hoping the vtx is backward compatible with DJI googles (maybe w/root exploit?!) - wondering why the diversity antenna though since the vista has performed so well with only single antenna? ps. I think DJI is behind it all and using caddx/walksnail as their ghostwriter - the industrial design of the google is very DJI - look at the buttons, look at the molding/curves, use of multiple plastics and reveals - very advanced design styling, DJI has a unique look to their filleting of the edges between flat surfaces where fatshark has always had very simple and unrefined stylings - too many fingerprints
Now that you mention it you are right. The Dominator/Avatar goggles really look much more similar to DJI than any previous Fatshark goggle. I can believe FatShark had input into the design the focus adjustment definitely could be their idea.
I more think that Fatshark was hired to make the goggles by Talksnail/Caddx/DJI as they have that expertise and that Talksnail.Caddx makes the transmitter end.
FPV isn't the only application for low latency digital video transmission. Walksnail can probably license cores for most of the design and get near the same performance as DJI's three year old custom silicon. Fatshark could have designed the goggles from the HDMI input back unless Redcat completely gutted their engineering department.
I don't think DJI would have designed the chip themselves. There are chip design houses for that. WalkSnail may have gone and got their own version but there is clearly massive know how transfer from the DJI system going on even to know where to go to get the chip and how to code the system. The similarities between the systems are more than skin deep, they run to the core of every spec. Caddx even claimed to be working on canvas mode for the DJI system. That never materialised but I bet the work fed into the avatar system.
@@ChrisRosser If DJI gave Caddx enough technical documentation to build canvas mode, you'd assume they had NDAs and non-competes in place. If DJI didn't give permission for this, they could probably shut it down in court.
Great video! So what about walksnail? Never heard of them until yesterday. Are they going to be suddenly jumping into FPV as well? Personally their black/grey goggles look much better. The launch of this whole thing could have been done much better. Seems like it was rushed like byte frost was, so quickly draw interest but kind of leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I’d like to hear what DJI has to say. If this is really a clone/ knock off then both fat shark and walksnail could be sued and go out of business. I hope it turns out great but for now I’ll stick with what works. I just wish fat shark was honest and tell us what’s up verses this shady way of bringing something brand new that looks 99.9% like something else on the market but is totally unrelated lol
I agree the optics of this look bad for FatShark. Someone needed to kick the tyres on the narrative a lot harder. Identical specs to DJI, identical settings to DJI and similar interface, give me a break. They need to be very clear exactly how this tech came to be transferred or re-engineered.
It sucks but because it's so hard to learn to fly FPV, the market will probably always be small. Anyone can fly a GPS camera drone because you don't really fly them. They fly themselves and you just tell it where to go. FPV takes months to years of constant practice and requires that you learn troubleshooting, repair, soldering, etc.
As always Chris I love your perspective your opinions the way you put it together in writing and say. 👏. There’s still a lot of conflicting information three days ago Joshua made a short two minute clip saying that it’s not DJI and then he went on to say something about walksnail. So it kind of leaves it open for contradiction. I do agree I am hopeful let’s just say. It all makes sense I mean why wouldn’t they make it compatible if it’s the same chip????!!!! Not to mention if you want to buy in and you already have version one or two you just need to buy the new goggles. I believe that would increase sales as well just like you said. Anyhow I hope you are correct because I just bought DJI version two like a year ago and I have been having video freeze every once in a while. I installed the Fetteck spike absorber with a 1000 UF capacitor. I recheck & re-checked everything and it still happens. Regardless I still do want DJI to stay in the game and if it changes as you are hoping we would be in good shape. They would be able to address our needs better. Hopefully 🙏🏻. I don’t know why I always had kind of feared that they would stop production or stop making them. Eversince I heard that about DJI V1 may stop. I mean eventually I understand that when it becomes obsolete but the way they were talking it was soon. Got me nervous. Anyhow thanks for the review or perspective.
Thanks for sharing! The more I look into it the less likely compatibility seems. I hope that it is still possible but I think it would need to be a community project. From what I've heard DJI Air units and vistas will still be available from Caddx for the foresseable future. I've also heard that the new DJI system (V3) will be compatible with the V2 goggles.
Hello Chris. I agree everything you speculate.. I have additional theory that fatshark is selling this goggles and technology because of US applying sanctions to DJI. Now its sold by a US company that has stocks at NASDAQ.
I have been thinking about this, and I don't buy it. The DJI products most in use are camera-style drones like Mavic etc. This only affects the FPV goggles, which are significantly less popular.
@@JoshuaBardwell another theory of mine is they are testing reaction of US about how they welcome rebranding. As Chris said its so obvious that CADDx is behind this goggles. And if it was up to them I don't see any reason why Fatshartk want a doppelganger version of their own goggles design.
I hope your speculations are correct. I can't find fault with anything you've said. Good for the future of FPV. Just don't think Greg should of said this was a non dji System...
I think DJI don't want to be associated with this because they may not have control over the quality of the manufacturing/firmware. If I was them I wouldn't take the risk either.
@@ChrisRosser True, very true...... but if your following the consensus from the community its looking like its backfired on Fatshark. They already had a strained reputation of late. But to say its produced by Walksnail using the dji p1 chip would of been better than half truths.
I'm not saying they couldn't make an ASIC. I'm saying they couldn't make an ASIC that has the exact same specs as the DJI system without an enormous amount of knowhow from whoever designed the system in the first place. If they have a new ASIC it's most likely from whoever designed/manufactured the P1 and a lot of the system code is probably copy paste or "reimplemented"
I agree with your assomptions. And I hope they are right so the current DJI/Caddx products (Goggle, Vistas et AUs) could get a new firmware to make them enter the WalkSnail ecosystem. Without that, the huge DJI users base would be left aside. I also prefer DJI Goggles over these new FS/Walksnail goggles. Qingxiang Li who seems to be behind Caddx/Wlaksnails trademarks and probably behing WalkSnail FB page (and might be a former DJI employee), where she says "Dji have never outputted any technology to any other FPV company . We don’t have a single chips or code is the same ." Making existing hardware compatible might be not compatible with that statement... Time will tell.
There is the possibility that whoever was behind the original DJI tech reimplemented it for Caddx/Walksnail but if that was the case why make the interface so completely identical? I think it's more likely source code from the DJI system was transferred into Avatar.
@@ChrisRosser That's her explanation : "By considering current pilot’s using habits ，they might feel uncomfortable or not used to a totally different interface . Some settings , description etc we used the same . But we can change it if have better ideas or suggestions from pilots". Your explanation sounds the most reasonable. I'll guess we'll have to open their product to see what chip it contains. Or maybe DJI will sell them a more "anonymized" chip. Or maybe they are telling the truth... which sounds very difficult to believe ^^
@@jejefpv That might be true for the interface but all the specs of the underlying system in terms of bitrate, latency, modes, no. of antennas on vtx and goggles etc. etc. etc. seem to be the same. It seems too close to be anything but tech transfer to me.
@@ChrisRosser Agreed. I actually don't really care about their arrangement behind the scene. Whats makes me worried is that their "official narrative" goes against bringing current DJI FPV gears into the WalkSnail ecosystem :/
If the goggles dont support existing DJI air units/vista's but in fact are using the P1 then all this new product does is segment the digital FPV market yet again.
pretty crazy.. I mean Hdzero made their stuff opensource? or licence it to VTX/VRX companies,... well because now DJI kinda does the same... at least letting their digital FPV chips be part of other digital systems.... I begin to like DJI more and more. So far they seem to like FPV by heart, they revolutionized digital transmission, even made a V2 goggle. they basically just did good to the fpv community the last years.... all that after gopro had no market for the session anymore. I don't get why some people still don't like DJI. more dumbasses fly dji drones, but even DJIs consumer drones are nice. the new mini 3 pro is really great, finally a DJI drone I would buy, 1000 bucks is still OK for this quality and compactness low weight thing. their digital system is great... now we get a V3 goggle soon (hopefully this was not the V3), I think I will wait for the flywoos, fatsharks, and then the DJI, and probably choose the DJI over the others lol.. Iam glad DJI is playing the FPV game. and it is probably not their most profitable game. I guess at DJI are a few engineers that also love to fly and simply appreciate the filming possibilities so much they have to develop something for it.
Looks and feels like a Strike Back or counter attack against HDzero with fat shark leaving the divimath Port DJi delivering the Bones or Skeleton for a second product attacking their competitor HD Hero Makes only sense for the weak, the loosers like HD zero and Rotor riot. While dji is already running the fpv 3 goggles production they have reused the old Tech in a new fashion
I think DJI is getting out of the FPV retail component business and will not be making VISTAs for Caddx to sell or stand alone goggles. They’ll most likely have an FPV mini drone and goggles but they’ll only be compatible with the dji fpv mini. This is how DJI has evolved their tech in the past… the NAZA was a stand alone flight controller they sold but after implementing in the pahantom stopped selling it. No way they gave that tech to Walksnail/Caddx. If this is true will dji stop making Vistas? Probably
Hmm, maybe they got a similar chip made by the chip design house that did the P1 and reimplemented all the code "inspired" by the DJI system. There is massive know how transfer here at a bare minimum.
To answer what you said at the 10mins. Everything pointing that they will not be compatible with old airunit and vista because they keeping all this secret, fatshark admitted the collaboration with caddx buy they strongly say Dji has nothing to do with this project. Clearly they not want piss off customers for not making it compatible.. really bad behavior from these companies
They will sell more units if they are compatible. I wonder if there will be updated unofficial firmware for air unit and vista to make them work with avatar. The recent rooting of the DJI system is almost too good to be a coincidence...
@@ChrisRosser i hope so because for people who own 10 or more drones with vista replace everything its too expensive, it would easier to migrate to new system, but if not for example In my case i would just stick with current vista and google that they are already very good.
So tired of this misinformation, that the air unit has a "slow read error" I have over a dozen of them on my quads and NEVER had that issue, EVER, must be the SD cards.
As far as in can tell it depends on what environment you're flying in. I get it all the time flying in parks and I use the recommended SD cards.😭 If you let me know what brand you use I can try it on my air units. But just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's not a big problem for others...
@@ChrisRosser I have used new and used ones, flown over lakes, dry desserts and the wonderful trees and parks of Virginia, no issues and no fabled "slow read error".
Best take yet, I thought the same thing, reverse engineering this low latency video link would be near impossible for a company like caddx. It is *HARD*
Seems crazy that fat shark wants us to buy their goggles and air units to replace in our drone for basically the same tech. I haven’t been able to think of a reason to buy the fat sharks and now it makes me want to stray from all their products.
Chris, this is a great video, but I fear you’re being too presumptuous. Your assumptions (for things like interoperability) are probably incorrect. Walksnail have since stated publicly that they share no hardware from DJI, which means they are not using the DJI P1 chipset, as you assumed in your video. More likely is Mads Tech’s opinion, that Walksnail are using off-the-shelf chips, similar to the original ones used by DJI before their P1 chipset was fabricated. Indeed Walksnail claim to have worked on this for a long time, so it makes sense to me. If Mads Tech is right, then we should expect the system to fail to match the performance of DJI, and any attempt by Walksnail to create interoperability is likely to disappoint. Indeed, I question whether they can meet the expectations set by Fatshark at the Dominator launch. Time will reveal more, but until then I wouldn’t be as optimistic as you, especially if Walksnail aren’t using the DJI P1 chipset as you’ve assumed.
The whole video is educated guesswork on my part. I have an interview coming out this week with Joonas Trussman of fpv.wtf with some more hard info on these systems.
@@ChrisRosser yeah. I’m in the middle of watching that video right now. It’s brilliant!!! Joonas reveals that DJI are just using elements of common smartphone chipsets, which are now looking old-school (compared to contemporary smartphone chipsets). Something which Walksnail can emulate without breaking DJI’s IP and it means that (unlike your first assumption) they’re not using DJI’s P1 chipset. It also means, unlike my first assumption, that Walksnail or others can not only match DJI’s P1 performance, but if they update the smartphone chipsets, they can improve upon it (as I guess DJI are doing and will continue to do for themselves). You’re a star. It’s an education beyond none - well done. I’m sure this will boost your reputation (deservedly IMHO). The problem I see ahead for Digital FPV is the vintage problem of digital - interoperability. Unless there’s an “open source” or “common standard”, then all these developments will be as proprietary as the next one, DJI and Walksnail included. At least they seem to be based around common standards like Linux, RTOS etc, so there’s some hope there at least
You asked so this is what I think, Apple Corp secretly owns DJI. Microsoft is putting a full version of Windows 11 on a flight controller and you are trying to drive me crazy with BlackBox Technology which is a conspiracy of it's own that I can't address right now because...Think twice next time you want to know what I think.
This is pretty much what I've been saying all along since this dropped. Everyone saying it's NOT DJI needs to take a breath. It IS DJI. Oh, it might not be the same name. And we might never find out if DJI is behind it because Chinese company. But let's all be honest with ourselves. It IS DJI. It has all the same features and drawbacks as DJI. And if it makes Fatshark happy to say it's not DJI when DJI>Caddix>Walksnail>Fatshark it makes them technically correct, but the roots clearly lead to DJI. Why lie about it? You know how sharp this community is. We're gonna put the pieces together. Then we're gonna wonder why you're lying to us. Despite all the DJI bootlickers in this community, DJI does not care about us, the FPV market. Oh sure, they like our money. But even the biggest DJI shill with an entire fleet of quads and a couple of headsets don't make DJI's profit margins like selling a couple of Mavic 3 Enterprises. Before you come at me DJI lovers, where is your canvas mode? Where is the innovation? Where is the development? THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU. And they haven't, for years now. But what they do care about is the money. And while they don't want to spend any resources to make their current system better, they also don't want to lose any money. So they come to this mutually beneficial deal. They supply the chips, Walksnail errr Caddix does the rest. Fatshark gets to slap their name on a goggle they didn't even build or design. They make the Vista smaller and better, and they implement canvas mode to get everyone to spend $$$$ to switch their gear over. Everyone wins. DJI makes money from the chips they produce anyway with little innovation or research or additional manufacturing costs. Caddix gets full control of the product they wanted anyway (remember the Runcam drama when they DARED to make cameras for the vista?). And Fatshark gets to pretend they are relevant again by slapping their name on a Chinese product and playing nice for their US based contracts. Everyone wins but us really. We don't win because this isn't a new system. It's not really competition. I'm sure DJI's V3 system is gonna blow this out of the water, otherwise they'd be loathe and stupid to part with what they have right now. I'm equally sure it won't be backwards compatible with old DJI stuff either. Because its "not DJI" amiright? Allowing you to use your old gear would let people just buy goggles and not the camera+vista. Walksnail errr Caddix doesn't make profit margins that way. So in this three headed deal everything switches. Why would you switch then? Well you're missing out on the smaller form factor and canvas mode eh? You've always wanted canvas mode and a lighter goggle for your face you poor tortured souls. They are also rushing this shit out fast because they want to lock you into preorders before the new DJI V3 tech drops and renders them all obsolete. In the end it's all about money. DJI gets to keep their name off of a product that might/could/maybe reflect badly on their pristine image, Caddix finally gets to be a real boy, and Fatshark gets to pretend they are relevant again after making the huge mistake of kicking HDZero out of bed. Meanwhile we'll have another closed system that isn't innovative or better than what we currently have.
I think you're right but taking a very negative view of it. We might now have an FPV focussed company shepherding the DJI FPV system. Canvas mode and 1080p mode are great new features and I think it reduces the risk that DJI just can the whole lot because it's too much hassle for them.
@@ChrisRosser It's not negative. I'm just irritated at all this cloak and dagger. It feels like we've been misled from the start. I get upset when I feel like I'm being lied to. I think it would have been better received if they just came out and been honest from the start. It looks like DJI. Explain why. Don't just tell us it's not with 0 explanation.
![☀ Большой разбор 1080p FPV системы. Тесты дальности, замеры. [Walksnail Avatar]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m-eQO7vd2-U/mqdefault.jpg)
@1:10 - Greg said unambiguously that Fat Shark had designed the goggles while leaving room for the "partner" to place the board. Drew later told me he had seen engineering drawings of the goggles as early as a year ago.
But if they had these goggles on deck, then why did they release the Scout? Why wasn't the Scout this goggle?
That’s a good question, I wonder if hdzero could have fit in these goggles anyways
What was the scout? probably something they had started designing at the launch of the sharkbyte system, They prob had just started the manufacturing phase when they committed to this move, so they just made one run, cleared a bunch of the Vrx with the fire sale, then dropped the google to recoup some cost and only produced the one run of them ...
@Joshua Bardwell, in your video, Greg says (14:43) "I wouldn't say Fat Shark is actually spearheading development on it." With that in mind, I think a reasonable theory is that Fat Shark provided industrial design for the goggles, while the majority of the technicals were handled by the "partner". That makes the goggles being "designed by Fat Shark" technically true while not really covering the whole of the goggle's development.
To go further, an industrial design can take whatever electronic guts, although possibly with some changes. So, originally, this form factor could have been intended to house a DiviMath/HDZero-based system, then when that relationship went away, this design had it's guts switched to this new system. That would explain the "2 year design" quote from Greg and the engineering diagrams Drew saw. The "PVT" Scout HD support debacle and abrupt discontinuance of the Shark Byte VRX and Fat Shark-branded VTX models would indicate a sudden switch away from HDZero tech in Fall of 2021, rather than a graceful, well-planned transition.
There is a possibility FatShark designed of the goggles and cross licensed that design back to WalkSnail for their Avatar goggles. But if so that would be a first for FatShark to allow another company to sell their design without FatShark branding. In think it more likely that WalkSnail owns the design and manufacturing with FatShark's significant input over the last year or more.
@@ChrisRosser I'm seeing it as a share of knowledge. Fatshark wouldn't have a HD system without Walksnail, and Walksnail wouldn't have a google design that works 100% without Fatshark.
Greg certainly sounded like he made the call on optics, and screens (size and type) in JB's video. So I really feel the above is true.
This is my only concern with upcoming HDZero's googles, if Carl was to say that he has had help from Skyzone I'm all in.
@6:00 - I think you are mostly on the mark here, but I disagree that DJI is giving P1 chips to Caddx/Walksnail. Greg made some comments saying he was concerned about DJI's response, "when they find out." I pressed him and Allan on whether DJI was behind the product, and they both had a kind of smirk when they said, "It's NOT DJI," that felt like, "If you only knew...."
Playing with fire. I wouldn’t invest a dime into this until down the road. DJI could sue them and this product be no more.
Its just excuse, clearly the point is not if DJI is giving them the P1 chips or not, but is that they using the P1 chip, so why not make it compatible with devices that use already this chip, means vista , airunit and Dji googles?
I wrote about this almost 3 years ago under your videos. the development, manufactoring and selling is in most cases not in one company and for sure not DJI. i still wonder how DJI got the exclusive contract so long :-). is there any person which can say for sure who developed or produced the P1 chip? cant see the DJI Label on it. Is DJI really allowed to sell the P1 chips, or is it only a customer like all others? For me, DJI is only the brand with the best contracts in this market.
Interesting. An employee of DJI registered WalkSnail so it seems unlikely DJI don't know all about it. It may very well be that some 3rd party built this system and licensed the tech to DJI. From a technology point of view avatar and DJI are still the same core technology and potentially interoperable. There is also clearly massive know how transfer and probably source code between the projects.
Yep maybe the design (P1 chip+RF part+software) is from another company, and it has been licensed to DJI with a 3 years exclusivity, and we'll start seing other companies using the same chips now... And some of them may open the compatibility with original air units. Anyway from my point of view, there really isn't anything exciting... :IQ and latency is the same, the OSD is ugly AF (even though it could be useful to get gps coordinates in the DVR for long range...) , it also looks buggy, and without knowing for sure who is behind the product, I have little hopes for it being fixed soon.
As usual; maximum information with minimal well chosen words.. Thank you Chris.😀
You're welcome!
This is why I love Chris' Channel
In case you are watching this a few days after release here is an update on what I understand the situation is:
1. This system is not sanctioned by DJI. Caddx/Walksnail have engineered this system independently. I understand that DJI may be upset by this and this may affect DJI/Caddx relatioship going forward.
2. The system is not running on P1 but other similar hardware which may be off the shelf or custom for Caddx/Walksnail.
3. I still believe there has been significant knowledge transfer from the DJI FPV system. Now this may or may not include code/IP but the similarities are striking to say the least.
4. The AvatarHD goggle doesn't seem to actually exist and the picture shown was a prototype of the Dominator goggle so it reamins to be seen if WalkSnail will release their own goggle.
@chris, you didn't touch on the rumor that this is a way for DJI tech to be sold into the US government. Too speculative or not wanting to draw attention?
@@ClintChapman It's an interesting idea to be sure!
With all these new HD options coming out, I'm glad I still run analog. Only cus, I was going to make the switch earlier this year to DJI, now I think I'll let the dust settle 1st see who comes out on top. Thanks for the breakdown.
same
Good idea. No sense jumping right now until everything shakes out.
I think a lot of (analog) guys are going to wait because of how this is developing.
Thank-you - most objective discussion of this I’ve seen, and I agree, this is good for FPV - I had not expected it to be compatible with existing DJI equipment, still not sure, but that’d be really awesome if so
It may not be compatible, although it probably could be. It would massively accelerate adoption and therefore revenue if it was though...
Even if you can only spectate Fatshark HD on DJI goggles and vice versa, it will be a big step forward. If it is actually based on the dji chipset, full compatibility is just a matter of the goodwill of programmers and marketing specialists from both companies.
@@ChrisRosser A person asked Greg and Drew whether the system could be compatible with existing DJI FPV system, and Drew answered that it was technically possible, but unlikely to actually be done.
Thanks for the information JB. With the DJI system recently being rooted I wonder if the old gear could be made compatible with Avatar? If so then the timing of the discovery of the root hack seems almost too fortuitous...
I'm always scared when there is a single option on the market. Hdzero is struggling to get relevant and orqa is gonna have a hard time too since they chose a sw based solution... Guess I'll stick to analog for a little longer
I think this is a good move for FPV in general. If HDZero go open source on electronics then we should have many manufacturers for that too.
Hdzero is the only System of importance for me. I switch to Hdzero from DJI because the latency on DJI is too high. HDZero is the future.
I think your right on but I think Fatshark did design the goggles and Walksnail has the VTX hardware/software and the VRX for the goggles. So fatshark gives Walksnail the goggle design and Walksnail gives fatshark the VTX design to brand as well so we have both fatshark and Walksnail systems. Hopefully they’re compatible with each other.
An interesting point. I wonder who is manufacturing the goggles?
I thought that is what fatshark did? manufacture goggles. it even looks like a shark nose profile
@@ChrisRosser I think FatShark likely designed / manufactured the goggle casing. If you look at the image linked to at the end of this post, the side profile along with the grey/white colouring looks like a shark nose sticking out the front of your face (compare them to the image on Greg's top). So now you have a choice of whether you want to look like an alien (DJI FPV Goggles) or a shark (FatShark Dominator HD goggles) when flying FPV 😂 i.imgur.com/sY36rDBl.jpg
except check out the buttons - exact same as DJI goggles - even the filleting on the molding of the google screams DJI - very suspect there
@@00fluxone DJI or not, FS/Walksnail goggle design is far better than existing DJI goggle (cringe design) lol.
Hi Chris. Great video, but allow me to clear up some confusion that's surrounding the DJI P1 chip based on our reverse engineering efforts.
Namely, the P1 is not nearly as custom as people seem to believe. Yes, it's spun at the fab for DJI specifically (the silicon has DJI ROM code in the mask), but as far as we can tell (and we've been through the entire firmware), it's comprised entirely of standard IP blocks. The "secret sauce" is their combination of a 4G derived basedband that runs on a standard ARM core in an RTOS combined with DSPs in the SoC and the IE1000 RF front end and a latency optimized video pipeline with fast h264 encoders/decoders. So, all the special sauce is in the end just SDR code which is entirely programmable and _not_ burned into the silicon as people seem to suggest.
The P1 is very likely to be a derivate of some Leadcore SoC design, which DJI were using previously.
What that in mind, it's entirely possible that this is running on some newer Leadcore SoC, with either licensed, "borrowed" or reverse engineered code. Or even some other 4G mobile SoC where they have low level access to the baseband infrastructure.
Considering we know DJI and Caddx are winding down the current gen (retailer stock notices) and that DJI will soon be announcing their next gen (see my latest tweets on @fpv_wtf if you're not aware), I'm leaning heavily towards DJI and Caddx breaking up and this being a "clone" system of one sort or another. Which kind remains to be seen.
I could of course be totally wrong on the latter, but my point about the P1 not being some kind of silicon level unobtanium magic 100% stands. It's basically an ARM mobile SoC with a flexible 4G baseband, _not_ some DJI designed super custom video encoding ASIC.
This is a great summary thank you for the information! I think I am in agreement with you. It may well be that this new Avatar system is based on a different SOC with a compatible architecture. If you have access to the know how, source code, and electronics design from DJI it would be relatively easy to re-engineer the entire system from scratch. But the question remains how they got access to that know how and used it without infringing IP.
Avatar also boasts about H265 encoding which could be a step up from the H264 that is presumably used in DJI FPV. Perhaps the new chip uses H265 hardware encoders that are now available?
@@ChrisRosser Yup, the H265 encoding supports that theory. DJI is also moving to it in their next gen devices. The P1 is being used purely as modem in those cases, with the encoding happening on an E2 or E3T (also "custom" DJI silicon).
It's not beyond the realm of possibility of reverse engineering all this based on publicly available firmware packages and encryption keys, but it'd certainly still be a massive effort. Seems more likely it has something to do with the people behind Caddx having worked at DJI at some point like we've been hearing. There's also some talk of DJI searching for a leak right now. But that's all hearsay.
We'll know for sure once the devices are in hand or the firmware slips out.
I think new fatshark hd system may likely share the same Rf chip(ie1000) with dji, but using a smaller package image processor, different from dji p1, to make it possible to put all parts on single board.
Yes been waiting to hear from the man!!
No SD cars slow error because it uses onboard flash instead.
Walksnail claims it’s been around since 2017, but domain registration in 2019.
Flywoo is taking pre-orders for the Walksnail Avatar goggle and VTx, not they own branded version.
This is the best opinion I've heard of all this by far. Chris thank you for not trying to slam anyone. I totally agree they are trying to bring more options for us all to the table with some better options! Spot on vid 🤜 I'm just really excited to see this coming out no matter who it is.
I appreciate that! Thank you 😁
Please never stop making videos!
RunCam is also distributing the same air unit lite as the Runcam Link Phx.
Maybe they will also get avatar?
thank you for the deep dive. too many folks speculate but no one really knows.
I try to stick to the facts but I only have access to the same information as everyone else 👍
who got build in storage? the goggles or the VTX? I think the goggles and didn't know the vtx had onboard SD card!
There looks to be a slot underneath the VTX board for an SD card. The goggle OSD also has an element for recording running onboard the drone (like with the air unit)
Spot on comments. Hope to see your "future of HD FPV" page be realized in the future. Thanks Chris.
I hope so too!
Just a thought… Since legal barriers surrounding Counter-UAS are falling and adoption rates are climbing even with small municipalities AND that 95-100% of CUAS technologies focus solely on DJI transmission and transmission protocols, I reason that systems based on the P1 chip are more prone to unwanted data capture and decoding.
also.... teal is a drone manufacturer under redcat holdings. same as fat shark. they have their own low latency system. also do work with military. possible they licensed their tech to walk snail and fatshark to compete with dji since it would be in redcats interest to prop up their fpv companies with their own digital system.
A completely independently developed HD system that just happens to have identical specs, settings, modes and menus to DJI? That's a coincidence too far I think.
which source do we have that DJI was the producer and engineer of the hardware? in my view DJI was only the first exclusive contractor to the system. i think there was a brand behind all that companies, but not well known to the user market as DJI was and is.
This is definitely possible. There may be a third party that owns this tech and licensed it to DJI and now to WalkSnail. If that's the case then it doesn't change the fact that the tech in both systems is the same and could be compatible.
@@ChrisRosser i also think compatibility is possible and would be great. if i think 10 sec more i also have to admit, that no one except the customer wants that. :-(
Not sure why everyone says WalkSnail is a spin out of Caddx when their mark was applied for 2 years prior to Caddx and product first commercial use is years prior also. Ironically walksnails first application date is just before the release of DJIs V1 fpv goggle. The mark application everyone cites is just the HK registration not the original shenzhen. We have also come up on 5 years almost to the date which is a pretty standard exclusivity contract length of time.
I think the link between WalkSnail and Caddx has been confirmed officially now. WalkSnail was a Caddx brand for a long time and has now been spun out as a company.
I saw a behind the scenes tour of how Michael Bay's Ambulance action thriller was shot using footage from a drone flown by Alex Hanover and he was using DJI. In fact I think all the pilots making a career in film and commercial shoots are using DJI, so I think there is definitely a lucrative niche market outside of FPV hobbyists for this kind of low latency HD tech. DJI must know this so I doubt they'll be completely giving up their share of the pie. Sure they have just spun off a smaller company that can work more closely with the market while not risking their more valuable brand, but they'll still be making decent money on the silicon and calling the shots.
Is there a Feature to input Video trough usb-c to use it like a Screen and watch Videos in the Googles?
Great video Chris, and I hope that your speculations are as close to the truth as possible (if not on the nose), as that would bode well for the FPV community. Exciting times!
Chris, I worked in global tech for almost four decades and I believe a couple of your assumptions are off the mark. First, the assumption (hope) that DJI and Walksnail will ensure compatibility I suggest is a low probability. Consider DJI's habit of abandoning products, especially the FPV V1 and V2 goggles. It's laughable that they effectively put in place a dual-boot for the V2 to allow V1 compatibility. This move suggests to me that DJI does not have any interest in creating a virtual layer between evolving hardware and existing firmware. Rather, they re-write the firmware each time they create a new product. What then did DJI license to Walksnail from the P1 chipset? I imagine they licensed SOME firmware and Walksnail had to create a lot of code. This will effectively guarantee incompatibility with older air-unit and Vista graphics FPV graphics systems. I'm hopeful Walksnail has sufficient licensing to keep extending the function. What will be critical is when DJI updates the P1, what happens with Walksnail. A P1+ will likely require a firmware rewrite so if Walksnail has not created a thin, virtual layer, they will be faced with large rewrites.
I'm guessing DJI has a new version of the chip they will be putting into a new FPV system.
I hope so! My dream is that all the DJI like systems end up interoperable and you can just pick and choose the goggle, camera and vtx you want. Everyone says they won't be but DJI/WalkSnail will make more money if they are because everyone with exisiting DJI gear will buy in immediately and that's a large number of pilots.
Kinda funny you suspect the p1 after walksnail said they arent using any of the same chips or firmware as dji
It seems people always assume that DJI manufacture and design everything they sell. Given the lack of branding on the P1 chip itself, it may well be that DJI did not design the chip (and did not manufacture it). Most companies that manufacture chips with high value IP tend to either brand the chip with a logo and/or the company name (think Intel, AMD, Samsung etc). Most ASIC chips I have seen have brands on them (Take a look at any Crypto ASIC chip). Generic chips without logo/or band name are usually designed/manufactured by third parties. Given that DJI like to slap their logo on everything they produce, the lack of brand on the P1 chip is a huge hint that they do not own the IP for it.
It may well be that as part of DJI’s initial use of the P1 chip that there was an exclusivity clause in the contract that may now have expired. So perhaps Walksnail own the IP for the P1 or even another third party owns the IP and is now able to freely sell it to whomever.
The “if you only knew…” that Joshua was referring to may just be that DJI never owned the IP in the first place.
This is definitely a strong possibility. From my perspective who owns the IP is interesting but not everything. When we say Avatar has "DJI inside" what I take from that is that whatever tech was in DJI (from whatever source) is also in Avatar and that therefore interoperability might be possible. The rooting of the DJI system to potentially allow interoperability with similar but different systems without DJI involvement is almost too fortuitous...
I think you are wrong about the googles. Fatshark are producing the goggles for Walksnail, not the other way around.
Walksnail will do the software and VTX/RX hardware and Cameras(caddx), Fatshark will do the googless with the HD receiver from the Walksnail and that's it. For some reason WAlksnail also have version of the goggles with their branding - go figure.
Other than that I think you nailed it. Cheers!
That might very well be true. I'm not sure why Fatshark would also sell the goggles as Avatar/Walksnail. Maybe that's part of their cross licencing agreement
In a way, DJI pretty much revolutionize the FPV industry in a short time. Previously, everybody said it was impossible (given the small market of FPV ). And DJI was like "alright, I got the money and R&D capability to produce digital FPV system, I'll sell the tech IP when the fpv population got hooked" in Rick Sanchez voice
when do we get a eachine version of the goggles?
Could the exchange of manufacturing and development to a smaller company mean decreased prices? If so, I'm totally onboard with this system.
It means more revenues for them and same if not more expensive products for us
Small companies are typically more efficient at serving small markets (in terms of revenue). Bigger companies are more efficient at serving bigger markets.
Best review thus far!! Will we have to 'register' to use these fatshark goggles with a DJI primary organ (P1 chipset) installed?
Thanks Chris very reassuring 😊
I echo your thoughts. I sure hope it is backwards compatible. Only think is if they made some sort of "P2" chip.
Even a P2 chip could be compatible with the exisiting goggles if the data format is the same.
@@ChrisRosser this is encouraging hope it all works out for us. Truly making it the fpv communities goggle like their tag line
Is there any public information about DJI P1 - has DJI developed it in-house or is the firmware/logic licensed from somebody else and DJI just manufactures (via some big foundry in practice) the actual ASIC?
Not much public. As far as I know it's a custom chip developed for DJI. It may have been designed by DJI or more likely by a chip designer paid for by DJI (e.g. Leadcore) but it appears to be proprietary.
DJI users: Whew! We get to keep using our beautiful tech. DJI Holdouts: See! They are lying to us. I told you we couldn't trust DJI.
Pretty much! I hope the systems are compatible. If so I'd go Avatar tomorrow.
Ditto!!!
@@ChrisRosser same
Your video actually makes a lot of sense with all this speculation out there. Hope a lot of what you said is the case! would love for my current vistas and AU's will be backwards compatible with the 1080p oled googles. That would definitely be their best play to keep all the heavily invested dji users.
Agreed, if there is compatibility between the systems this is a slam dunk.
I literally just bought both the DJI V2 goggles and the accompanying DJI fpv remote controller. The main reason I went this route is due to 250g weight restrictions, it's an all-in-one system. is canvas mode and 1080p worth the hassle of swapping over? Seems weight of (naked) units and latency aren't very different.. What should I do?
Your good with what you got. Imo it's the best out at the moment. Things may look different in 6 months, but that is always the case with fpv. I love my dji setup and have no interest in switching until there is something much better.
Wait. Everyone should wait. No-one should look at a new FPV system right now until this all shakes out.
Thank you for this gunuinly honest video!
My pleasure!
Yet another great video! Thanks!
Imo gogles resamble shark, so I would assume fatshark took part in design of them.
This could certainly be true and then cross licensed the design to WalkSnail as the Avatar HDs.
"DJI Inside" is fine with me although I too wish for some backward compatibility and wow what a great explanation on all of this! Yes, agree totally DJI will serve the hobby better and increase their profits by handing off the production and going to a ASIC OEM and tech licensing model. And benefit still from the rapidly evolving hobby side of things.
My guess is once they all come clean and say "DJI inside" we will get compatibility with the VIsta at the very least.
Fine with me too. I also completely understand that DJI will not want to brand it DJI. In order to hit cost and margin on this type of relatively low volume product WalkSnail will have less QC (quality control) than DJI would be happy with. It may simply be a brand reputation thing.
So what’s the deal with Fatshark and HDZero? I thought they were suppose to come out with a goggle?
They did do the scout HD but it didn't seem like Fatshark was really pushing HDZero at any point. I wonder if they'll be more active with avatar?
I wouldn’t hold my breath for the DJI air unit/vista support. Even if it would be possible technically, it would kinda interfere with their « Not DJI » narrative that they are trying really hard to make us believe.
That's true. I wonder if there is a link with the rooting of the DJI system recently. Maybe that's just conspiracy theories though. If there is the potential for new unofficial firmware for the air unit and vista to make it work with Avatar...
Sources at Rampage say categorically that Fat Shark created their own NEW Asic it is definitively NOT the P1 used by DJI.....As one source put it " the ASIC components are generically available....all it takes to make your own is money and engineering....Engineers change jobs , so if you hire a DJI engineer, you have a pretty good head start on getting a new system up and running. So no surprise that the new product looks much like DJI, but it is a "New Product". I don't think that you can get the improved performance offered by the Dominator with the P1 chip.....
There could be know how transfer from DJI. I haven't seen any improved performance with Dominator. 720p 120fps just like DJI and a 1080p mode. The P1 would be more than capable of 1080p 60fps if it can do 810p 144fps in the DJI drone.
The development or improvement is hopefully not slow as a snail.
This sounds so true. Thanks Chris.
this is Exactly what i was thinking. Plus the extra added benefit of separation giving them distance and possibly still making money in the Gov sector via chip manufacturing sales.
Your videos are so detailed even to the deepest architecture of drones. Many thanks to you. I'm learning a lot.
You made some good points...I can see hdzero have their space in market ,this will be expensive for some people looking to entry hd fpv,hdzero turning to open source,they and other brands can have a cheaper product specially for whoop market ,BNF drones and entry level fpv googles,Price make huge impact on sales.
Thanks Chris, very insightful. I think the thing you left out of your analysis was impact on competition. Most people like myself believe more competition, more choice, lower prices is better for consumers. I was hoping for a 3rd competitor with a completely new technology/Asic. WE still only have two choices DJI or HDZero. DJI is just moving into the background and letting Caddx/Walksnail front their proprietary technology....
I'm not sure a proliferation of different incompatible hd systems is good for the hobby. Ideally we'd have just one so you could always watch your buddies video feed like on Analog. Competition could then be through multiple manufacturers using the same chipsets.
@@ChrisRosser Historically a firm in a monopoly position (which would be the case if only a single ASIC available, regardless of the number of manufacturers) will maximize profits over needs of their end users.
It means more money more updates more cameras, vtx etc
Exactly, I dunno how some of these guys can afford to buy everything new that comes out 🤷🏽♂️
This would make sense, but is Walksnail really lying to peoples faces when they say it doesn’t use a DJI chip, when users will be able to open it up and see in 2 months? Seems like a weird move to me.
I mean who knows. Maybe the P1 wasn't designed by DJI but by a 3rd party chip designer paid for by DJI and the avatar uses another chip designed by the same folks? Either way there is massive know how transfer from DJI here to know exactly what chip to build.
Makes a lot of sense Chris, great perspective. There is still the mystery of why Greg @ FS was trying to cover up the tech behind their new system. Perhaps in anticipation of another brand undercutting them on price for the same stuff? But that seems a bit to short sided on his part. But that isn't uncommon in this or other industries, same product being rebadged and sold under a more popular brand for dramatically different prices. Either way, I'm happy to see the DJI technology open up to other manufactures, it's only good for our community.
I think DJI probably don't want their name on this. They may not have control over manufacturing quality or firmware quality and if that's the case they wouldn't want to put their brand reputation at risk.
@@ChrisRosser Sounds reasonable to me :D
You said 2 things that made me need to ask morw
You said caddx and walksnail were both registered by someone at DJI? does that mean DJI actually own caddx?
Also you said its impossible to clone the P1 chip? Since Chinese manufacturers basically reverse engineer anything and everything, why can't this P1 simply be cloned?
Rw fat shark, they lied BADLY on the JB interview so yeah,.
I just prey all us with older vista's and goggles get canvass mode plus cross compatability.
It doesn't mean they are owned by DJI just that the person who registered both companies is employed by DJI so we might expect DJI know about WalkSnail and are somehow connected with them.
Cloning an ASIC is impossible without the detailed design documentation as far as I know. ICs are one of the most robust forms of IP in the world because of this. However, DJI may have commissioned another ASIC design house (e.g. Leadcore) to design the P1 and it is possible the same design house could make something similar for someone else. This would require an intricate knowledge of the full tech stack of the DJI FPV system (at a level you would only have if you had designed it). So that probably only happens with DJIs blessing!
@@ChrisRosser sure I get that but still, it seems, odd.
I need to dive a bit fepper here, the Chinese have literally reserved engineered rockets and satalites, I understand it's more who gets the tech but still, it's weird in this day and age that there is only a handful of people who can do this blows my mind, I'm not disagreeing, far from it mate, it just hurts my tiny mind lol
At the end of the day I feel it's encouraging that their is innovation and competition on the visual side of fpv. I have been flying for a year and decided to go analog due to the price and I wasn't certain if I would be able to make it through the learning curve. At the time I also figured hdzero would be my upgrade path. Today I don't feel that analog is the thing holding me back and although I almost pre-order a fatshark goggle I think I will wait until I see viable products shipping. Either way, time is on my side and I hope either hdzero or walk snail has a system that will suit my needs.
Yes, I'm in your camp.
I bought the Sharkbyte VRX during the $100 flash sale but still haven't bought a VTX or camera (I was waiting for the 1W vtx)
Seeing this new system made me want to sell my Sharkbyte VRX and aim for this instead - BUT - just like with Sharkbyte, I am going to wait a while - let my TH-cam subs test it and review it - THEN i'll decide......
Do you not think that Fatshark designed the goggles? And walksnail provided the tech?
Thanks Chris this is great information.
Very diplomatic of you to call Walksnail anything other than a shell company created by DJI to skirt international law.
"Partners" yeah ok. The shell is literally on the snail's back.
100%
all great news for fpv but such a messy release - hoping the vtx is backward compatible with DJI googles (maybe w/root exploit?!) - wondering why the diversity antenna though since the vista has performed so well with only single antenna? ps. I think DJI is behind it all and using caddx/walksnail as their ghostwriter - the industrial design of the google is very DJI - look at the buttons, look at the molding/curves, use of multiple plastics and reveals - very advanced design styling, DJI has a unique look to their filleting of the edges between flat surfaces where fatshark has always had very simple and unrefined stylings - too many fingerprints
Now that you mention it you are right. The Dominator/Avatar goggles really look much more similar to DJI than any previous Fatshark goggle. I can believe FatShark had input into the design the focus adjustment definitely could be their idea.
To be honest, smart developers might be able to code on top of 2 different chips.
I more think that Fatshark was hired to make the goggles by Talksnail/Caddx/DJI as they have that expertise and that Talksnail.Caddx makes the transmitter end.
That may be the case. Maybe the Avatar goggles are also made by Fatshark and designed by them?
FPV isn't the only application for low latency digital video transmission. Walksnail can probably license cores for most of the design and get near the same performance as DJI's three year old custom silicon. Fatshark could have designed the goggles from the HDMI input back unless Redcat completely gutted their engineering department.
I don't think DJI would have designed the chip themselves. There are chip design houses for that. WalkSnail may have gone and got their own version but there is clearly massive know how transfer from the DJI system going on even to know where to go to get the chip and how to code the system. The similarities between the systems are more than skin deep, they run to the core of every spec. Caddx even claimed to be working on canvas mode for the DJI system. That never materialised but I bet the work fed into the avatar system.
@@ChrisRosser If DJI gave Caddx enough technical documentation to build canvas mode, you'd assume they had NDAs and non-competes in place. If DJI didn't give permission for this, they could probably shut it down in court.
I feel as though we should be keeping mum untill these make it through coost ooms.
If all this turns out to be true, we will have interesting times ahead.
Too right!
Great video! So what about walksnail? Never heard of them until yesterday. Are they going to be suddenly jumping into FPV as well? Personally their black/grey goggles look much better.
The launch of this whole thing could have been done much better. Seems like it was rushed like byte frost was, so quickly draw interest but kind of leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I’d like to hear what DJI has to say. If this is really a clone/ knock off then both fat shark and walksnail could be sued and go out of business. I hope it turns out great but for now I’ll stick with what works.
I just wish fat shark was honest and tell us what’s up verses this shady way of bringing something brand new that looks 99.9% like something else on the market but is totally unrelated lol
I agree the optics of this look bad for FatShark. Someone needed to kick the tyres on the narrative a lot harder. Identical specs to DJI, identical settings to DJI and similar interface, give me a break. They need to be very clear exactly how this tech came to be transferred or re-engineered.
Fatshark made the goggles. They just made a version for their sales, and a version for Walksnail (Caddx) to sell.
FatShark certainly designed the goggle shell. They haven't said they are supplying WalkSnail goggles as well but I guess we'll see!
According Mads Tech latest video it’s more a copy from dji but not from dji
It sucks but because it's so hard to learn to fly FPV, the market will probably always be small. Anyone can fly a GPS camera drone because you don't really fly them. They fly themselves and you just tell it where to go. FPV takes months to years of constant practice and requires that you learn troubleshooting, repair, soldering, etc.
As always Chris I love your perspective your opinions the way you put it together in writing and say. 👏.
There’s still a lot of conflicting information three days ago Joshua made a short two minute clip saying that it’s not DJI and then he went on to say something about walksnail. So it kind of leaves it open for contradiction.
I do agree I am hopeful let’s just say. It all makes sense I mean why wouldn’t they make it compatible if it’s the same chip????!!!!
Not to mention if you want to buy in and you already have version one or two you just need to buy the new goggles. I believe that would increase sales as well just like you said.
Anyhow I hope you are correct because I just bought DJI version two like a year ago and I have been having video freeze every once in a while. I installed the Fetteck spike absorber with a 1000 UF capacitor. I recheck & re-checked everything and it still happens.
Regardless I still do want DJI to stay in the game and if it changes as you are hoping we would be in good shape. They would be able to address our needs better. Hopefully 🙏🏻.
I don’t know why I always had kind of feared that they would stop production or stop making them. Eversince I heard that about DJI V1 may stop.
I mean eventually I understand that when it becomes obsolete but the way they were talking it was soon. Got me nervous.
Anyhow thanks for the review or perspective.
Thanks for sharing! The more I look into it the less likely compatibility seems. I hope that it is still possible but I think it would need to be a community project. From what I've heard DJI Air units and vistas will still be available from Caddx for the foresseable future. I've also heard that the new DJI system (V3) will be compatible with the V2 goggles.
@@ChrisRosser nice I hope they can make it happen 🙏🏻.
Thanks for the insider information greatly appreciated 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Hello Chris. I agree everything you speculate.. I have additional theory that fatshark is selling this goggles and technology because of US applying sanctions to DJI. Now its sold by a US company that has stocks at NASDAQ.
I have been thinking about this, and I don't buy it. The DJI products most in use are camera-style drones like Mavic etc. This only affects the FPV goggles, which are significantly less popular.
@@JoshuaBardwell another theory of mine is they are testing reaction of US about how they welcome rebranding.
As Chris said its so obvious that CADDx is behind this goggles. And if it was up to them I don't see any reason why Fatshartk want a doppelganger version of their own goggles design.
So basically Fartshark did what Eachine did with the Tx16s or the Skyzone goggles.
I hope your speculations are correct.
I can't find fault with anything you've said.
Good for the future of FPV.
Just don't think Greg should of said this was a non dji System...
I think DJI don't want to be associated with this because they may not have control over the quality of the manufacturing/firmware. If I was them I wouldn't take the risk either.
@@ChrisRosser True, very true...... but if your following the consensus from the community its looking like its backfired on Fatshark.
They already had a strained reputation of late.
But to say its produced by Walksnail using the dji p1 chip would of been better than half truths.
Dont think it will be dji p1 Chipset u say u dont think they could make an asic but no one knew carl and he made one
I'm not saying they couldn't make an ASIC. I'm saying they couldn't make an ASIC that has the exact same specs as the DJI system without an enormous amount of knowhow from whoever designed the system in the first place. If they have a new ASIC it's most likely from whoever designed/manufactured the P1 and a lot of the system code is probably copy paste or "reimplemented"
I'm very doubtful they're using DJI tech. It's possible, but a teardown will tell the tale.
The more I learn the more I think it's different hardware
Can we say folks that Fatshark is indirectly making an OEM brand of Caddx?
Or Fatshark is cross licensing their goggle design to WalkSnail.
@@ChrisRosser yep! Great video Chris as always!
Je trouve ton analyse très intéressante et tes explications claires et concises.
Merci pour ça 👍🏼
Merci!
I agree with your assomptions. And I hope they are right so the current DJI/Caddx products (Goggle, Vistas et AUs) could get a new firmware to make them enter the WalkSnail ecosystem. Without that, the huge DJI users base would be left aside. I also prefer DJI Goggles over these new FS/Walksnail goggles. Qingxiang Li who seems to be behind Caddx/Wlaksnails trademarks and probably behing WalkSnail FB page (and might be a former DJI employee), where she says "Dji have never outputted any technology to any other FPV company . We don’t have a single chips or code is the same ." Making existing hardware compatible might be not compatible with that statement... Time will tell.
There is the possibility that whoever was behind the original DJI tech reimplemented it for Caddx/Walksnail but if that was the case why make the interface so completely identical? I think it's more likely source code from the DJI system was transferred into Avatar.
@@ChrisRosser That's her explanation : "By considering current pilot’s using habits ，they might feel uncomfortable or not used to a totally different interface . Some settings , description etc we used the same . But we can change it if have better ideas or suggestions from pilots".
Your explanation sounds the most reasonable. I'll guess we'll have to open their product to see what chip it contains. Or maybe DJI will sell them a more "anonymized" chip. Or maybe they are telling the truth... which sounds very difficult to believe ^^
@@jejefpv That might be true for the interface but all the specs of the underlying system in terms of bitrate, latency, modes, no. of antennas on vtx and goggles etc. etc. etc. seem to be the same. It seems too close to be anything but tech transfer to me.
@@ChrisRosser Agreed. I actually don't really care about their arrangement behind the scene. Whats makes me worried is that their "official narrative" goes against bringing current DJI FPV gears into the WalkSnail ecosystem :/
I bet they ship with all kind of problems and fat shark has to try and fix everything with firmware updates over the coming months
If the goggles dont support existing DJI air units/vista's but in fact are using the P1 then all this new product does is segment the digital FPV market yet again.
Yeah I hope that it's compatible. If so that is really great news for pilots and I will happily switch to avatar.
pretty crazy.. I mean Hdzero made their stuff opensource? or licence it to VTX/VRX companies,... well because now DJI kinda does the same... at least letting their digital FPV chips be part of other digital systems.... I begin to like DJI more and more. So far they seem to like FPV by heart, they revolutionized digital transmission, even made a V2 goggle. they basically just did good to the fpv community the last years.... all that after gopro had no market for the session anymore. I don't get why some people still don't like DJI. more dumbasses fly dji drones, but even DJIs consumer drones are nice. the new mini 3 pro is really great, finally a DJI drone I would buy, 1000 bucks is still OK for this quality and compactness low weight thing. their digital system is great... now we get a V3 goggle soon (hopefully this was not the V3), I think I will wait for the flywoos, fatsharks, and then the DJI, and probably choose the DJI over the others lol.. Iam glad DJI is playing the FPV game. and it is probably not their most profitable game. I guess at DJI are a few engineers that also love to fly and simply appreciate the filming possibilities so much they have to develop something for it.
Looks and feels like a Strike Back or counter attack against HDzero with fat shark leaving the divimath Port
DJi delivering the Bones or Skeleton for a second product attacking their competitor HD Hero
Makes only sense for the weak, the loosers like HD zero and Rotor riot.
While dji is already running the fpv 3 goggles production they have reused the old Tech in a new fashion
I think DJI is getting out of the FPV retail component business and will not be making VISTAs for Caddx to sell or stand alone goggles. They’ll most likely have an FPV mini drone and goggles but they’ll only be compatible with the dji fpv mini. This is how DJI has evolved their tech in the past… the NAZA was a stand alone flight controller they sold but after implementing in the pahantom stopped selling it. No way they gave that tech to Walksnail/Caddx.
If this is true will dji stop making Vistas? Probably
walksnail swears none of it is dji. not the chip nor the code. mad tech showed some Twitter messages from them answering people's questions.
Hmm, maybe they got a similar chip made by the chip design house that did the P1 and reimplemented all the code "inspired" by the DJI system. There is massive know how transfer here at a bare minimum.
To answer what you said at the 10mins. Everything pointing that they will not be compatible with old airunit and vista because they keeping all this secret, fatshark admitted the collaboration with caddx buy they strongly say Dji has nothing to do with this project. Clearly they not want piss off customers for not making it compatible.. really bad behavior from these companies
They will sell more units if they are compatible. I wonder if there will be updated unofficial firmware for air unit and vista to make them work with avatar. The recent rooting of the DJI system is almost too good to be a coincidence...
@@ChrisRosser i hope so because for people who own 10 or more drones with vista replace everything its too expensive, it would easier to migrate to new system, but if not for example In my case i would just stick with current vista and google that they are already very good.
So tired of this misinformation, that the air unit has a "slow read error" I have over a dozen of them on my quads and NEVER had that issue, EVER, must be the SD cards.
As far as in can tell it depends on what environment you're flying in. I get it all the time flying in parks and I use the recommended SD cards.😭 If you let me know what brand you use I can try it on my air units. But just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's not a big problem for others...
@@ChrisRosser I have used new and used ones, flown over lakes, dry desserts and the wonderful trees and parks of Virginia, no issues and no fabled "slow read error".
@@princesfpvdrones What SD card brands/types do you use?
SanDisk 256GB Extreme microSDXC UHS-I Memory Card
@@princesfpvdrones OK I'll pick one up and give it a go. All of the cards I've used have ben 32 or 64gb so maybe that's the difference.
I think of all the info and speculation I’ve seen thus far about this new digital fat shark/ walksnail system this video makes the most sense by far.
The whole lot of them are reeeeeeeing and Chris over here like a real adult in the room. Thank you for being based and knowledgeable per usual.
For me personally these goggles are a huge disappointment… 🤷♂️
I would have liked to see 120fps OLED panels but I expect they are simply too costly.
@@ChrisRosser yes exactly! And I wish they were able to support analog also !
Ghe issue is not the Tech, but all of them claiming its not dji and thsts BS
I agree. We need a bit more transparency on the history of the tech. It's way to identical to DJI FPV in terms of specs etc. to be a pure coincidence.
Best take yet, I thought the same thing, reverse engineering this low latency video link would be near impossible for a company like caddx. It is *HARD*
DJI v3 coming soon lmao
Yeah, I think this is FatShark trying and get out ahead of the DJI V3 system
Seems crazy that fat shark wants us to buy their goggles and air units to replace in our drone for basically the same tech. I haven’t been able to think of a reason to buy the fat sharks and now it makes me want to stray from all their products.
Chris, this is a great video, but I fear you’re being too presumptuous. Your assumptions (for things like interoperability) are probably incorrect. Walksnail have since stated publicly that they share no hardware from DJI, which means they are not using the DJI P1 chipset, as you assumed in your video. More likely is Mads Tech’s opinion, that Walksnail are using off-the-shelf chips, similar to the original ones used by DJI before their P1 chipset was fabricated. Indeed Walksnail claim to have worked on this for a long time, so it makes sense to me. If Mads Tech is right, then we should expect the system to fail to match the performance of DJI, and any attempt by Walksnail to create interoperability is likely to disappoint. Indeed, I question whether they can meet the expectations set by Fatshark at the Dominator launch. Time will reveal more, but until then I wouldn’t be as optimistic as you, especially if Walksnail aren’t using the DJI P1 chipset as you’ve assumed.
The whole video is educated guesswork on my part. I have an interview coming out this week with Joonas Trussman of fpv.wtf with some more hard info on these systems.
@@ChrisRosser yeah. I’m in the middle of watching that video right now. It’s brilliant!!! Joonas reveals that DJI are just using elements of common smartphone chipsets, which are now looking old-school (compared to contemporary smartphone chipsets). Something which Walksnail can emulate without breaking DJI’s IP and it means that (unlike your first assumption) they’re not using DJI’s P1 chipset. It also means, unlike my first assumption, that Walksnail or others can not only match DJI’s P1 performance, but if they update the smartphone chipsets, they can improve upon it (as I guess DJI are doing and will continue to do for themselves).
You’re a star. It’s an education beyond none - well done. I’m sure this will boost your reputation (deservedly IMHO).
The problem I see ahead for Digital FPV is the vintage problem of digital - interoperability. Unless there’s an “open source” or “common standard”, then all these developments will be as proprietary as the next one, DJI and Walksnail included. At least they seem to be based around common standards like Linux, RTOS etc, so there’s some hope there at least
You asked so this is what I think, Apple Corp secretly owns DJI. Microsoft is putting a full version of Windows 11 on a flight controller and you are trying to drive me crazy with BlackBox Technology which is a conspiracy of it's own that I can't address right now because...Think twice next time you want to know what I think.
First :) exciting stuff here
This is pretty much what I've been saying all along since this dropped.
Everyone saying it's NOT DJI needs to take a breath. It IS DJI. Oh, it might not be the same name. And we might never find out if DJI is behind it because Chinese company. But let's all be honest with ourselves. It IS DJI. It has all the same features and drawbacks as DJI. And if it makes Fatshark happy to say it's not DJI when DJI>Caddix>Walksnail>Fatshark it makes them technically correct, but the roots clearly lead to DJI. Why lie about it? You know how sharp this community is. We're gonna put the pieces together. Then we're gonna wonder why you're lying to us.
Despite all the DJI bootlickers in this community, DJI does not care about us, the FPV market. Oh sure, they like our money. But even the biggest DJI shill with an entire fleet of quads and a couple of headsets don't make DJI's profit margins like selling a couple of Mavic 3 Enterprises. Before you come at me DJI lovers, where is your canvas mode? Where is the innovation? Where is the development? THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU. And they haven't, for years now.
But what they do care about is the money. And while they don't want to spend any resources to make their current system better, they also don't want to lose any money. So they come to this mutually beneficial deal. They supply the chips, Walksnail errr Caddix does the rest. Fatshark gets to slap their name on a goggle they didn't even build or design. They make the Vista smaller and better, and they implement canvas mode to get everyone to spend $$$$ to switch their gear over. Everyone wins. DJI makes money from the chips they produce anyway with little innovation or research or additional manufacturing costs. Caddix gets full control of the product they wanted anyway (remember the Runcam drama when they DARED to make cameras for the vista?). And Fatshark gets to pretend they are relevant again by slapping their name on a Chinese product and playing nice for their US based contracts.
Everyone wins but us really. We don't win because this isn't a new system. It's not really competition. I'm sure DJI's V3 system is gonna blow this out of the water, otherwise they'd be loathe and stupid to part with what they have right now. I'm equally sure it won't be backwards compatible with old DJI stuff either. Because its "not DJI" amiright? Allowing you to use your old gear would let people just buy goggles and not the camera+vista. Walksnail errr Caddix doesn't make profit margins that way. So in this three headed deal everything switches. Why would you switch then? Well you're missing out on the smaller form factor and canvas mode eh? You've always wanted canvas mode and a lighter goggle for your face you poor tortured souls. They are also rushing this shit out fast because they want to lock you into preorders before the new DJI V3 tech drops and renders them all obsolete.
In the end it's all about money. DJI gets to keep their name off of a product that might/could/maybe reflect badly on their pristine image, Caddix finally gets to be a real boy, and Fatshark gets to pretend they are relevant again after making the huge mistake of kicking HDZero out of bed. Meanwhile we'll have another closed system that isn't innovative or better than what we currently have.
I think you're right but taking a very negative view of it. We might now have an FPV focussed company shepherding the DJI FPV system. Canvas mode and 1080p mode are great new features and I think it reduces the risk that DJI just can the whole lot because it's too much hassle for them.
@@ChrisRosser It's not negative. I'm just irritated at all this cloak and dagger. It feels like we've been misled from the start. I get upset when I feel like I'm being lied to.
I think it would have been better received if they just came out and been honest from the start. It looks like DJI. Explain why. Don't just tell us it's not with 0 explanation.
Digital sucks! Real pilots only use analog :)
No true scotsman...