Holy cow, I can't believe Scott let my drunken rambling slip through! (I don't use my real name on YT.) For those who've already commented, there was some mildly complex math in the original message that would suggest that I had a basic understanding about what was going on. Just wanted an expert to explain how things differ between analogue and digital controls. As always, I learned more than I wanted to. More importantly, someone watching this video might have learned something too. Question answered. Indeed, that -20dB button almost confused me the one time I saw it. It was labeled as "mute", but 20dB is nothing. That's just me being younger than generation X though. In the old days, a mute was the thing you stuck in the horn of a trombone to make it quieter. In the '90s it was the button on the TV remote that you pushed whenever the commercials came on.
Human hearing is logarithmic in relation to apparent loudness, which is why volume controls should be logarithmic. Good equipment design allows full power output at a setting around the 65% or 70% point within the control's entire range with a relatively normal input voltage level. The numbers on the panel or the associated digital display are best regarded as memory aids, not as absolute values.
A good example is pH measurements or Earth Quake strength on the Richter Scale. These are classic logarithmic scales. An earthquake of strength 7.0 on the Richter scale is 10 times stronger that an 6.0 magnitude earthquake and 100 times stronger than a 5.0 magnitude earthquake. The amount of energy released from a 7.0 magnitude compared to a 6.0 magnitude earthquake is about 31.6 times greater. There is also a big difference between a 7.1 and 7.2 magnitude earthquake. Approximately 30%. "The ear was constructed to hear both very quiet and very loud sounds of very small and very large frequencies. This is why the ear hears logarithmically. The response of the ear is nonlinear, so that loud sounds get distorted in the ear."
"it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where? Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?" "Put it up to eleven." "Eleven. Exactly. One louder."
My First Sony (tm) had a 20db mute… which, at modest volumes dropped the SPL pretty low - and at high levels cut the volume enough to talk over it (and was usually just great)!
Most AVRs have option to show from negative value to +10. 0 represents cinema reference level. So at 0 you hear it as loud as in cinema. Quite simple and has lot’s of sense.
When I bought my Denon PMA-QS10 II amplifier, another customer in the shop wanted to buy two B&W 803 D3 speakers. We tested the gear together as a system. The other customer was with two young boys who were drawn to the Denon's big volume knob like a powerful, irresistable magnet and turned it all the way up 😊🤣
There is confusion about volume controls from ordinary people. Fender guitar amps for a while had eleven (11) as the top setting on the volume control. People assumed it meant the amp was "louder". With a normal signal most amplifiers will clip well before their top setting which can damage your speakers and especially the tweeters in the system.
Sounds like you may have a Law-Fake volume control (A way in electronics of making a linear pot act more "Log" or Log-Law). Log Pots are difficult to match, where linear controls are much easier to match Left and Right. If you put an exteranl resistor across one part of the three connections a pot has then you get a "Log-ish" response, with much better left and Right match. It does however not have a great Log response, and acts as you describe with poor resloution between nothing and a lot. My Pre-Amp has a volume control, Black knob on a black background with a small LED dod marker, no numbers, you dial in the volume you require, It is a Law-Faked Pot.
@@ptg01 That's easy to fix... An electronic decibel is a relative term. The idea is that you can talk about changes or relationships without knowing either actual value. Yeah it's kinda dumb, but that's the customary way it's done. BUT, since these are standardized comparisons, you don't need to worry about the absolute values involved... just treat them as reference points when comparing stuff. "Your amp has a gain of 26db? Well mine has a gain of 36!" An acoustic decibel is a measurement of relative loudness taken from our base hearing sensitivity so that 1db is the quietest sound we can hear and 150db will make your ears bleed. You don't need to worry about how much power that is... just stay away from prolonged exposure to anything over 80db.
My new Marantz Model 50 goes from 99 to 0 99 the lowest volume, .I normally have the volume at around 28 don’t know how that relates to 0 to 10 on older amplifiers
Exponential.. ! Remember the golden rule.. its not only the rule for audio..but for damn near everything. The japanese called it something else.. damn i cant remember..
Ummm ... I think you might be a tad confused here. That is the little known secondary function of a Volume control. To many people's amazement the control can also be used to turn things down! Who Knew??
Holy cow, I can't believe Scott let my drunken rambling slip through! (I don't use my real name on YT.)
For those who've already commented, there was some mildly complex math in the original message that would suggest that I had a basic understanding about what was going on. Just wanted an expert to explain how things differ between analogue and digital controls. As always, I learned more than I wanted to. More importantly, someone watching this video might have learned something too. Question answered.
Indeed, that -20dB button almost confused me the one time I saw it. It was labeled as "mute", but 20dB is nothing. That's just me being younger than generation X though. In the old days, a mute was the thing you stuck in the horn of a trombone to make it quieter. In the '90s it was the button on the TV remote that you pushed whenever the commercials came on.
Human hearing is logarithmic in relation to apparent loudness, which is why volume controls should be logarithmic.
Good equipment design allows full power output at a setting around the 65% or 70% point
within the control's entire range with a relatively normal input voltage level.
The numbers on the panel or the associated digital display are best regarded as memory aids, not as absolute values.
"A Good Bloke" in Orstrayian means that you are a great fella! Be proud Paul as this is an Ozzie compliment. Love your work!
A good example is pH measurements or Earth Quake strength on the Richter Scale.
These are classic logarithmic scales.
An earthquake of strength 7.0 on the Richter scale is 10 times stronger that an 6.0 magnitude earthquake and 100 times stronger than a 5.0 magnitude earthquake.
The amount of energy released from a 7.0 magnitude compared to a 6.0 magnitude earthquake is about 31.6 times greater.
There is also a big difference between a 7.1 and 7.2 magnitude earthquake. Approximately 30%.
"The ear was constructed to hear both very quiet and very loud sounds of very small and very large frequencies. This is why the ear hears logarithmically. The response of the ear is nonlinear, so that loud sounds get distorted in the ear."
Loved the reference to Spinal Tap. But if they go to eleven, when the other blokes are playing at 10, you’ve got that extra push over the cliff.
I was hoping someone would notice Paul’s Spinal Tap reference 😂
BBC iPlayer goes to 11
"it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where? Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?" "Put it up to eleven." "Eleven. Exactly. One louder."
My First Sony (tm) had a 20db mute… which, at modest volumes dropped the SPL pretty low - and at high levels cut the volume enough to talk over it (and was usually just great)!
I' m with you Paul , zero to one hundred percenct on the volume dial easy peasy 😁
Most AVRs have option to show from negative value to +10.
0 represents cinema reference level. So at 0 you hear it as loud as in cinema.
Quite simple and has lot’s of sense.
When I bought my Denon PMA-QS10 II amplifier, another customer in the shop wanted to buy two B&W 803 D3 speakers. We tested the gear together as a system. The other customer was with two young boys who were drawn to the Denon's big volume knob like a powerful, irresistable magnet and turned it all the way up 😊🤣
Yep... cranking the knobs and poking the tweeters ....
I love knobs and dials, also, I'm 53...
@@jimmychristensen498I use my wife's nipples as tuning and volume noise while wooing her 😂
Input sensitivity plays a big part in where 100% output is. This has the knock on effect that 25% - 50% is hardly any movement on the dial.
Spinal Tap went to eleven
But they had you know, armadillos in their trousers.
Thank you! Excellent explanation.
There is confusion about volume controls from ordinary people. Fender guitar amps for a while had eleven (11) as the top setting on the volume control.
People assumed it meant the amp was "louder". With a normal signal most amplifiers will clip well before their top setting which can damage your speakers and especially the tweeters in the system.
That came from the movie "Spinal Tap"... they changed the markings on a Fender amp for the movie ... Fender picked up and ran with it.
Sounds like you may have a Law-Fake volume control (A way in electronics of making a linear pot act more "Log" or Log-Law). Log Pots are difficult to match, where linear controls are much easier to match Left and Right. If you put an exteranl resistor across one part of the three connections a pot has then you get a "Log-ish" response, with much better left and Right match. It does however not have a great Log response, and acts as you describe with poor resloution between nothing and a lot. My Pre-Amp has a volume control, Black knob on a black background with a small LED dod marker, no numbers, you dial in the volume you require, It is a Law-Faked Pot.
Simple answer ... the numbers mean nothing. Just use them as a reference.
That’s a good point.
Again, so good!
It's amazing that in year 2023 a simple thing as a volume control can still confuse us. 🤔
I think it is because we struggle with logarithmic scale / dB's as units of measurement.. At least I still do !
@@ptg01
That's easy to fix...
An electronic decibel is a relative term. The idea is that you can talk about changes or relationships without knowing either actual value.
Yeah it's kinda dumb, but that's the customary way it's done. BUT, since these are standardized comparisons, you don't need to worry about the absolute values involved... just treat them as reference points when comparing stuff.
"Your amp has a gain of 26db? Well mine has a gain of 36!"
An acoustic decibel is a measurement of relative loudness taken from our base hearing sensitivity so that 1db is the quietest sound we can hear and 150db will make your ears bleed.
You don't need to worry about how much power that is... just stay away from prolonged exposure to anything over 80db.
You had me and don’t listen to anything I say
I like the guitar amps with knobs to 11!
I really tried to listen and understand, but I'm still all over the place, so I'll just use my ears and neighbors to assess the volume...
My new Marantz Model 50 goes from 99 to 0 99 the lowest volume, .I normally have the volume at around 28 don’t know how that relates to 0 to 10 on older amplifiers
Just crank it to eleven, and freak out the neighborhood ❤😂
My preamp and amp volume control doesn’t even have numbers. Don’t see much point of numbers, just use your ears, easy and no math required.
Turn it up to 11. ( spinal tap). Is that a pair of HiFimann headphones behind your ear..good bloke
I had a Yamaha receiver that went from -80 dB to 0 dB. Yep, as the numbers got SMALLER, it got LOUDER, which was very confusing at first.
It makes sense if it is called an Attenuator with zero being no attenuation which would normally be way too loud.
This is where you let the marketers design the volume and keep the engineers away from it. Nobody wants to crank an amp to 58.
Jokic 🏆 is HI-End🎉
Exponential.. ! Remember the golden rule.. its not only the rule for audio..but for damn near everything. The japanese called it something else.. damn i cant remember..
Marshall amps have vol pots marked 0-11 lol 😂
Paul's answer was at least entertaining.
Huhh? You are pulling all nighters and releasing videos @ 1 AM mountain time Paul?! How old are ya? 29??
You don't have to be awake to publish a video on YT at a certain time. It's called "schedule".
Fibonacci .. thats the word
Mine goes to 11. That's one louder than 10.
The numbers are linear but the pots logarithmic in other words the numbers are a lie use your ears 😂
Mine goes to "11"!🤣
BBC iPlayer goes to 11
I cant go pass 38 its absolutely deafening 😂 Onkyo 0 - 75
Yep he totally lost me on this one.
Yup
No such thing as a volume control, its an attenuator.
Try telling someone to crank up the attenuator and see what happens...
Ummm ... I think you might be a tad confused here. That is the little known secondary function of a Volume control. To many people's amazement the control can also be used to turn things down! Who Knew??
Once again, out of many other reasons why buying expensive audio is a gross waste of money.
first
Claiming to be first is stupid.
@@spacemissing I am not the first human... only the first viewer of Paul's rather informative video... now, commenting on that is stupid
@@soniclab-cnc 13,493th