One of the few times I have heard real urgency, bordering on panic, on a radio transmission. Great to hear the calm voices later, showing that they had a handle on he situation.
@@napalmstickylikeglue I think the pilot should have been way calmer. Panic, yelling isn’t the way to avoid disaster. Probably why it sounds like it was from a disaster documentary.
Situational awareness award goes to TWY247 for immediately taxiing away from the runway 'just in case' without waiting to be given instructions by ATC. Very happy that this nightmare ended well; based on the radio comms from the pilots it could have easily ended differently.
Yep very well done by them making sure they didn’t end up unintentionally becoming part of the problem and giving their fellow pilots as much opportunity to access the airport real estate as possible 👏
That "CLIMB! CLIMB! CLIMB!" had me sitting bolt upright here groundside. "POWER! POWER!" had me twitching. Well done crew! Kept your heads, kept your focus, flew the plane, brought her back safe.
This is one of the scariest we've seen on this channel in a while. I won't criticize anyone here. They got this plane down safely in the busiest airspace in the world. That's all that matters.
Ugh, i can hear the struggle, the adrenaline, and stress in the Pilot's voice. Great job everyone, it really makes me comfortable flying knowing how well the system works
The most scared I've ever been in more that 15k hours of flying is smoke in the jet and I don't know where the fire is. It is terrifying. Good job ATC, tower, rescue, and especially, good job Ted!
Multiple times during this video I got that feeling in my head and I can feel my eyes welling up. 2 wonderfully skilled pilots fighting for their lives. Amazing job, fellas.
I and my crew had 3 in the back, as soon as I rotated, the cockpit and the back filled with smoke. I couldn’t see my copilot. I unstrapped and put my face on the ADI. The rest of the crew put on quickdons (O2). The boom flipped the bleeds off and depressurized the aircraft. Gave the aircraft to my Co and went on O2. The poor bastards in the back all they had were POKs (kinda like the spaghetti forest). We dumped fuel, landed and deplaned those guys. They were ill. Smoke was from hydraulic fluid flashing through the air cycle machine.
A million years ago I blasted out of Dulles in a Metro2. It was beyond cold and we were having trouble getting the automatic cabin temp function to work. So, we selected manual. Bad idea. We quickly roasted 30 years of ancient dust and crap in the ducting and, of course, got smoke in the cockpit. I wonder if something similar happened here? Cold morning, old auto controller, etc. Meanwhile, the Hawker is a great jet but some of them are getting a bit long in the tooth.
Is that similar to the "burnt dust" smell that people with radiator heating at home get the first time in the winter they turn on the heat? People call the fire department for that smell from their radiators, I can see why something similar could cause smoke in a cockpit.
I think VASA misheard them. He clearly says 'Yes ma'am, I CAN climb, we're stable here, Just need vectors to 19 or 24" She heard him corrrectly and said "Roger climb to 2500" due to anntennas and the like.
@TommyShekelsonReloadedI don't think that's true, because immediately the pilot requests to do 1500' instead - implying he's unable to climb to 2000'+.
Post above is correvt - VAS did not understand what was said. But it was a chaotic situation. May account for them saying they could climb then saying they had to stay at 1500.
After listening at various speeds too many times, I have changed my mind and now agree it's most likely he said "...ve Ma'am I can('t) climb". In the broader context, it seems most likely that he was saying he couldn't climb, but as this comment thread shows, what came over the radio was heard by ATC and several of us as him saying he could climb.
I live in the area and saw them fly overhead while I was driving to work. Knew something wasn’t right with the flight path they were flying and gear was still down..
I always get emotional when I hear 'Smoke in Cockpit". I'm thankful for a positive outcome; I'll be refamiliarizing myself with those checklists tonight
Again, in these tense situations why all the frequency changes? Just give them 121.5 the emergency frequency that all facilities monitor and let them use that and reduce the task saturation!
ATC was really on top of things; the first thing (and second thing) controller said was any runway, and notably she never asked for souls or fuel. As far as the vector thing is concerned, seriously, give them a break: - Teterboro has a minimum vectoring altitude of 2000, when they learn that the aircraft can't climb to 2000 it takes some processing to give instructions below legal limits that won't send the plane straight into terrain, which the pilots were also struggling with. - An aircraft can't turn on a dime, and an aircraft in the initial climb has even less energy. The ATC was informing the pilots of alternative options if the best course of action was not possible.
It’s the “Power! Power!” call thar is the real pucker moment. Jeepers.. significant smoke in the cockpit at low level with high terrain around. Well done to the flight crew for getting things under control and back down ok.
No surprise. Probably chasing a piston single for hundreds of dollars in 'facility fees' on top of fuel for 10 bucks a gallon. Haven't been to Signature in about 25 years. I used Atlantic earlier this year at TEB. Top notch service, reasonable fees.
So I understand that there was so much smoke in the cockpit, that one pilot had literally his nose on the instruments giving instructions to the other pilot (climb and power). That´s wild.
Smoke is so unbelievably dense and dark. There are some systems that are basically a plastic tube the pilot puts on that connects their face to their instruments to help keep the smoke out of that line of sight but I'm not sure what aircraft it's mandatory on if any
@@robertbutsch1802 By deduction. I could be wrong of course, but If the person is giving orders like "climb" and "power", it means he is not piloting. And if the person piloting need those instructions, it means he has no access to the instruments info, while being in the cockpit of course.
Had my turn with smoke in the cockpit. Electrical fire on takeoff roll from the panel. Alerted tower, killed master switch, aborted and exited as smoke diminished. Got the handheld and contacted tower. Very glad I was not in the air. The plane was pressurized twin with no windows to open. It stunk like you know what.
Must have been heavy smoke not just a little bit by the pilots initial reaction 😮. Panic yet trying to stay calm and cool at the same time. Good job getting her back in one piece. 🫣🫡
Interesting video. Not usually do you see situations so "rushed". Often emergencies follow a more formal procedure. Great job by everyone involved though.
@@craig7350 there are multiple emergency situations in this channel, such as engine failure, loss of cabin pressure etc, that the pilots were calm, folllowed a hold pattern to do checklists and line up to land. They are all emergencies, but this one is an "extreme" one
It is SOOO infuriating to hear ATC repeatedly say climb to 2000 ,AFTER the pilots had already said they couldn't climb and could barely maintain 1500 . Oh and while your at it ,can you also change frequencies several times and once again repeat your emergency and that you need vectors and CAN'T climb . I seriously cannot believe that in this day and age of technology , an EMERGENCY situation requires pilots to constantly change frequencies and repeat the nature of the emergency to every new controller that takes over . Once the emergency has been declared or even a PAN PAN , leave them with ONE controller on ONE frequency. The technology to do so must exist ,but isn't used due to cost probably .
@howsthis4aname My thoughts exactly! Seems like way too much unnecessary fumbling around by ATC. Why couldn't tower just provide vectors back in, that close to the airport? Got my PPL at KTEB back in 1999.
For what it's worth I think the caption at 2:08 might be wrong. Sounded to me like he said "yes ma'am, I can climb". But still, that he could only do 1500 wasn't forwarded to approach. Not sure why that frequency change was necessary.
A lot of terrains at 700 feet - first called for help they’re 600 feet - for sure you ask for powwwer and climb ! Great job bringing plane back from pilots
Yeah, unless it got lost in the edit, they didn't call Panpan or Mayday. We hear that left out in a lot of the American recordings. Maybe it's the dollar fear of calling an ambulance in the USA bleeding into their flying.
@@45KevinRthat’s funny. The controller understood entirely what was happening from their messages. Who cares about other countries hyper-fixation on pan-pan or mayday. This pilot got their point across, was understood, and landed safely without it. Maybe see that instead of getting hung up on America so much.
They kept giving the climb and maintain 2000’ before they gave vectors. I believe this is because of minimum vectoring altitude (MVA). I’ve seen controllers make the decision, in the interest of safety, to vector regardless but it seems tower wasn’t willing to. Approach accepted 1500’ and still issued vectors so I wonder if they made that judgement call.
You are absolutely right. If we vector an aircraft below the MVA, the controller has to get pilot concurrence to accept responsibility of maintaining visual clearance from ground obstacles, which in this situation, just isn't practical because of the weather and the emergency. Tower can't provide radar vectors for an IFR approach because they aren't radar certified. That's why the TRACON has to do it. You're also right in that the tracon made the judgment call to vector them below the MVA because the situation warranted it. If something went wrong, and thank God it didn't, ATC would share blame in the accident because they issued vectors below the MVA. That being said, I think the controllers handled the situation extremely well and knew what needed to be done to get the pilot in a position to safely land the plane.
MAN, I really felt for these pilots. I was a nervous wreck when they kept asking for vectors, and ATC wasn't doing it at first. So glad they made it okay. I assume they had to change their underwear after they landed.
It seemed very complex to hand the aircraft between so many controllers when the pilots may have been struggling to even see the numbers on their radios. While the different controllers normally handle different tasks and pathways this feels like an occasion to collaborate more, and give the pilots one less job to do in the blind.
They must be watching your channel Victor. Well, I asume, as this time trucks' radios were spotless, crystal clear! 😂 Everything else has been said already. Great video once again, and so glad everything turned out ok. Thank you!
I thought we had smoke in the cockpit once. Smelled like electric wires burning and came back. . . turns out a nearly empty coffee pot was loaded into a hot plate and was burning . . .smells putrid and just like wires. I still think i made the right choice . . .
It was the right decision. If you ignored it and it were a worse problem, we potentially could have been reading about it in an accident report rather than hearing it from you.
KTEB is a tricky enough departure as it is, without having smoke billowing into the cockpit, kudos to the pilots for making sound decisions, declaring the emergency immediately and flying the plane. I guess they may have been trying to remain under a cloud base, to remain in VMC, even though they had a cockpit full of smoke, good decision by them though to overrule the ATC request to go up to 2000’ as it could have compounded their situation, being in IMC without a clear view of your instruments is a recipe for disaster, well done them. Great job by ATC also, thankfully this had a safe outcome, well done to all involved.
That horn you hear in the background when he keys the mic, means a couple of things. Airbrake isn’t stowed correctly and he selected flaps, overspeed, cabin altitude and or having flaps 25 without landing gear. Personally I think they either had the air brake not fully stowed or landing flaps down without the gear. It has happened to me before where I thought I stowed the airbrake completely after using it to slow down, than selecting flaps, and the horn was going off and I couldn’t figure out why right away.
Speedbrakes stow automatically when past certain thrust lever angle in my Citation. I am very sure it is the same in this Hawker? I can only think of landing gear or overspeed.
Surprised I didn't hear that first controller, after hearing her read off every RWY at TET, finish her TX with: "... or whatever runway you need for your little smoke in the cockpit issue". On a serious note however, during a low altitude emergency such as that, I would've liked to hear the tower coordinate with N90 to keep the PM from having to piss with the radio- especially in a potentially smoke filled cockpit during poor visibility, and especially after hearing his frantic commands to the PF... Glad this frightening situation worked out.
I have flown and maintained these type of hawkers. These jets are most resistant and roughed. If you keep some speed up you can do anything with it. I wonder what made the smoke.
"IF" you had to crash in any corp bird out there the Hawker is the one you want to do it in. brick shit house doesn't even come close to describing these things. I fuked with them when they had Vipers on them and 731 conversions wer just coming out
Ya should’ve caught the audio of just prior to their departure. You would’ve heard the pilot request to deplane on the taxiway to do a tactile feel of the wing.
I am very confused by how this went down. I would think "smoke in the cockpit" would require a "land immediately" mentality. It seems like the tower and pilots thought this also, and considering the weather, smoke, and control issues up to and including the request for vectors at 2:11, everything was being handled as well as can exoected. But then why didn't tower give immediate vectors to runway 19 (which was the closest and longest runway)? And why would there be a hand-off to Approach? That was a lot of wasted time. Had they been on fire, that could have cost them dearly. Remember Saudia Flight 163?
Vectors were illicit given the aircraft's position in space. The tower instead gave something legal, the position of the airport. Consider also that it seemed the aircraft was having power issues, and tempting them into a low-power, tight turn when they can't see could have resulted in the aircraft packing it in and killing everyone. As noted in the event, they overshot anyway as they were too close to make it work.
Look at the SPECI, field is IMC. So only option is for a Precision approach, ILS 19. If the pilot loses sight of the runway Tower is not going to give a vector towards the final if the guy is in the clouds unable to see anything. Also look at the map, the guy is at 600ft and a vector towards the final would mean a right turn right into a 693ft obstacle.
Incorrect. I got my PPL there in 98/99, but since it's extremely busy with jets, touch & go's were prohibited. So we would fly over to Caldwell Airport (aka Essex Co. Airport) and Morristown Airport (where I soloed) to practice landings. Both are relatively close to TEB and both have control towers and are smaller than TEB. All three are Class D airports with ATC.
@@johnringoo756 Doesn't matter how tall or new a control tower is. The three of them are Class D airports with ATC (tower controllers). What's a "normal airport" ?
In the aftermath then will be looking at possible battery fires in any lithium powered items, I'm sure. Or any other potential causes of a relatively short but intense burst of life-threatening smoke... phew. Glad it turned out so well.
With smoke in the cockpit, I'd have though the "first responder" to the emergency call should have kept the aircraft in that frequency and given them more help lining up for an approach asap. Not that I'm any kind of expert, of course, but with smoke in the cockpit, is there time to be handing the crew from one frequency to another (and another, and another)?
And that was another good day... All's well that ends well. Pretty emotional, this one. Was sitting on edge of my seat. Whatever happened, happened fast and then they suddenly found themselves dealing with terrain. They'll take a while coming down from all that adrenaline. Why's there no tears of relief or happiness emoji?
This is the shit… these guys are fighting for their lives. Great job by all. Wow. Had to take a BP pill just to listen to it. Crazy he couldn’t climb and then everything is ok.
Great job on the crew, but re-evaluating I feel ATC could have delivered more smooth assistance. Aircraft indicating not being able to climb, yet getting instructions to climb to 2.000 for instance.
Did they declare an emergency before this clip started? It's pretty obvious that smoke in the cockpit it likely an emergency, but the declaration or mayday call puts every one in response mode automatically.
@@bluehorseshoe9216 Yeah forgot about those Desert Storm era M44 goggles in a bag.... that usually are never where they are supposed to be. Mostly found covered with pilots hubris and knick knacks in the side arm cubby. I know some 135 outfits have smoke hoods as required equipment
Sounds like bleed air contamination, as there was no mention of a fire. Being unable to climb seems a mystery, except increasing the power might have been increasing the "smoke"?
Yikes! CLIMB CLIMB and POWER POWER POWER have me shaking more than a little right now. But it's okay. I'm just glad they got back on the ground safely!
I have always wanted to put on a course on ATc listening to what is happening. Can’t climb, we are stable - they clear him to 2000. He asks for terrain, they ask him to climb. Clearing to land any runway - he has zero visibility but no rate one timed turn is suggested. To many freq changes. ATC needs to listen in emergency. Too many questions. I’d make a fortune sharing my techniques.
Not what I would call panic. The guy was telling the pilot flying what he needed to do and it was more important to climb the plane and keep it flying then release the push to talk button. Not sure what happened here. But the guy on the radio had good enough situational awareness to recognize the problem, work the problem, talk to ATC and not let the pilot flying crash the plane. Good Job.
Panic is what made him shout CLIMB three times. The word panic as well as fear shouldn't always be taken as a negative word. It's a human reaction to a death situation to stay alive. We train every six months in a simulator not only to know the memory items and which buttons to push first but also to help our own positive human reactions and counteract the negative ones. When you face it in the real world, you feel panic. You're human.
@@VASAviation Still not what I classify as panic. I'd classify what he did as doing your job. We induce stress in the simulator so you can overcome that stress and perform your duties without panicking. I think you're getting the semantics wrong. Panic stops you from being able to do your job. Regardless of that I understand what you mean I just don't think panic is the correct word. But that's my opinion.
So why could they not climb? Smoke that disappeared we got, but what happened to the ability to climb? This did not seem like it was going to end well!
It's probably lucky that they didn't spot a runway while they were dealing with the chaos of a smoke-filled cockpit. They were trying to do a fighter break at five hundred feet and drop it back down. Can't see that working out.
So, with that much smoke they would had a very hard time doing checklists, given one had to have their face planted on the instruments while the other flies the plane.
Can someone clarify that the ATC commands to change off the Tower frequency are best practice? That obviously shifts workload onto the pilot, and at the altitudes indicated, from a pilot's perspective I don't get it. Was there a good reason for this?
The field is IMC, so the pilot needed to get a precision approach back into the runway in order to land. Most Tower controllers do not have radar training and are not qualified to give radar services. Therefore, the only person able to give them the radar services needed to bring them back around and clear them for the approach was the approach controller. So you have to switch them to their frequency, now the radar controller did issue him a landing clearance but that’s probably because that was coordinated with the tower and the tower controller told the radar controller to issue that clearance. Tower controllers that have a Bravo airspace are able to give limited radar service.
That CLIMB CLIMB leaked transmission gave me chills!!! Awesome job, pilots! Weather didn't help much to the return at all.
That was indeed scary. Thx for the video as usual!
Me too. The power, power, power shout rattled me as well. Thought for sure we were going to hear the terrain horn. Pilots did a great job.
And when pilot reads wind back... chills for sure
If blancolirio could get an interview with these 2 pilots it would be *amazing* to hear from them!
One of the few times I have heard real urgency, bordering on panic, on a radio transmission. Great to hear the calm voices later, showing that they had a handle on he situation.
That hot mic "climb climb!" was like something you'd hear on an air disaster documentary. Great job to everyone involved.
Clear simple forceful commands. Climb climb climb. Oxygen oxygen oxygen.
Etc
@@napalmstickylikeglue I think the pilot should have been way calmer. Panic, yelling isn’t the way to avoid disaster. Probably why it sounds like it was from a disaster documentary.
@@Robbie1031 Well when you're put in the same situation, knowing only the limited information.... Maybe I'll consider your opinion to be valid.
Situational awareness award goes to TWY247 for immediately taxiing away from the runway 'just in case' without waiting to be given instructions by ATC. Very happy that this nightmare ended well; based on the radio comms from the pilots it could have easily ended differently.
Yep very well done by them making sure they didn’t end up unintentionally becoming part of the problem and giving their fellow pilots as much opportunity to access the airport real estate as possible 👏
That pilot heard the Hawker’s traffic and didn’t want to be anywhere NEAR that nonsense 😂
Yea if someone os coiming in hot GET THE HLL OUTT THE WAY
That "CLIMB! CLIMB! CLIMB!" had me sitting bolt upright here groundside.
"POWER! POWER!" had me twitching. Well done crew!
Kept your heads, kept your focus, flew the plane, brought her back safe.
It was terrifying! I was just yelling for them to just get on the ground!
This is one of the scariest we've seen on this channel in a while. I won't criticize anyone here. They got this plane down safely in the busiest airspace in the world. That's all that matters.
Those pilots deserve serious praise. Kudos to the tower for not flooding the airwaves with questions.
Ugh, i can hear the struggle, the adrenaline, and stress in the Pilot's voice. Great job everyone, it really makes me comfortable flying knowing how well the system works
Very impressive for them to be able to seemingly remain in control and give clear and concise commands and answers while under such pressure.
The most scared I've ever been in more that 15k hours of flying is smoke in the jet and I don't know where the fire is. It is terrifying.
Good job ATC, tower, rescue, and especially, good job Ted!
Multiple times during this video I got that feeling in my head and I can feel my eyes welling up. 2 wonderfully skilled pilots fighting for their lives. Amazing job, fellas.
That was a harrowing couple of minutes! The climb and power calls...wow! Great jobs from these pilots for being so aware of their needs!
I and my crew had 3 in the back, as soon as I rotated, the cockpit and the back filled with smoke. I couldn’t see my copilot. I unstrapped and put my face on the ADI. The rest of the crew put on quickdons (O2). The boom flipped the bleeds off and depressurized the aircraft. Gave the aircraft to my Co and went on O2. The poor bastards in the back all they had were POKs (kinda like the spaghetti forest). We dumped fuel, landed and deplaned those guys. They were ill. Smoke was from hydraulic fluid flashing through the air cycle machine.
Holy cow that is scary
Nice job.
Everyone here was rooting for you. Well done!
Kudos to you, great job!
Outstanding airmanship
A million years ago I blasted out of Dulles in a Metro2. It was beyond cold and we were having trouble getting the automatic cabin temp function to work. So, we selected manual. Bad idea. We quickly roasted 30 years of ancient dust and crap in the ducting and, of course, got smoke in the cockpit. I wonder if something similar happened here? Cold morning, old auto controller, etc. Meanwhile, the Hawker is a great jet but some of them are getting a bit long in the tooth.
I come to these videos for the headline but stay for the intelligent comments.
Another old Metro pilot here and had a similar issue coming out of McGurire AFB as you did… and also MANY years ago LOL
I hope you write, because even that small excerpt was great storytelling!
That is an exceptional comment and experience. Thanks for sharing.
Is that similar to the "burnt dust" smell that people with radiator heating at home get the first time in the winter they turn on the heat?
People call the fire department for that smell from their radiators, I can see why something similar could cause smoke in a cockpit.
anybody who doesn't do readbacks correctly needs to watch this guy do complete readbacks with smoke in the cockpit and not enough power near terrain
Which is most of these GA types
Go back to your flight sim boy.
even used full call sign when switching to tower...by the book. Pro crew here.
- Are you able to climb at all ?
- Negative
- Roger, climb and maintain 2000'
I think VASA misheard them. He clearly says 'Yes ma'am, I CAN climb, we're stable here, Just need vectors to 19 or 24" She heard him corrrectly and said "Roger climb to 2500" due to anntennas and the like.
02:04
@TommyShekelsonReloadedI don't think that's true, because immediately the pilot requests to do 1500' instead - implying he's unable to climb to 2000'+.
Post above is correvt - VAS did not understand what was said. But it was a chaotic situation. May account for them saying they could climb then saying they had to stay at 1500.
After listening at various speeds too many times, I have changed my mind and now agree it's most likely he said "...ve Ma'am I can('t) climb".
In the broader context, it seems most likely that he was saying he couldn't climb, but as this comment thread shows, what came over the radio was heard by ATC and several of us as him saying he could climb.
That "CLIMB! CLIMB! CLIMB!" almost made me climb the walls of my home 🤣
Great job by everyone involved especially the pilots maintaining situational awareness and focus on flying the airplane first.
I live in the area and saw them fly overhead while I was driving to work. Knew something wasn’t right with the flight path they were flying and gear was still down..
I always get emotional when I hear 'Smoke in Cockpit". I'm thankful for a positive outcome; I'll be refamiliarizing myself with those checklists tonight
Whew, that was tense!
I need a cup of tea to calm down 😬
Imagine kazignstan situation
I had to pause it 3 times and take a lap to calm down. I can only imagine the adrenaline of these poor guys. 😬
Again, in these tense situations why all the frequency changes? Just give them 121.5 the emergency frequency that all facilities monitor and let them use that and reduce the task saturation!
ATC was really on top of things; the first thing (and second thing) controller said was any runway, and notably she never asked for souls or fuel.
As far as the vector thing is concerned, seriously, give them a break:
- Teterboro has a minimum vectoring altitude of 2000, when they learn that the aircraft can't climb to 2000 it takes some processing to give instructions below legal limits that won't send the plane straight into terrain, which the pilots were also struggling with.
- An aircraft can't turn on a dime, and an aircraft in the initial climb has even less energy. The ATC was informing the pilots of alternative options if the best course of action was not possible.
Hearing the horn in the background is wild. Those things are loud as hell and scary when they go off in the hawkers.
It’s the “Power! Power!” call thar is the real pucker moment. Jeepers.. significant smoke in the cockpit at low level with high terrain around. Well done to the flight crew for getting things under control and back down ok.
The "Climb Ted!" caused a flash of Airplane 1 in my head.
You're too low, damn it!
Striker!!!
Ovur over Roger Roger
"I just want you to know, we're all counting on you..."
@@kernowauditsYour too low Ted your too low. Ah yes back in Macho Grande
You gotta love Sig West always getting in the middle...
No surprise. Probably chasing a piston single for hundreds of dollars in 'facility fees' on top of fuel for 10 bucks a gallon. Haven't been to Signature in about 25 years.
I used Atlantic earlier this year at TEB. Top notch service, reasonable fees.
@@AutonomousNavigatorsig. West took over meridian..
Thank you for all the awesome edits in 2024🙏Looking forward to more in 2025
So I understand that there was so much smoke in the cockpit, that one pilot had literally his nose on the instruments giving instructions to the other pilot (climb and power). That´s wild.
Smoke is so unbelievably dense and dark. There are some systems that are basically a plastic tube the pilot puts on that connects their face to their instruments to help keep the smoke out of that line of sight but I'm not sure what aircraft it's mandatory on if any
Where did you get that info? If you’re referring to the post above, that was recounting a separate incident with another aircraft at another time.
@@robertbutsch1802 By deduction. I could be wrong of course, but If the person is giving orders like "climb" and "power", it means he is not piloting. And if the person piloting need those instructions, it means he has no access to the instruments info, while being in the cockpit of course.
Had my turn with smoke in the cockpit. Electrical fire on takeoff roll from the panel. Alerted tower, killed master switch, aborted and exited as smoke diminished. Got the handheld and contacted tower. Very glad I was not in the air. The plane was pressurized twin with no windows to open. It stunk like you know what.
I've lived my whole life in the approach for runway 19 of TEB.
In the clouds and can barely see instruments. That's a moment I'd like not to experience.
Fortunately the crew was able to re-gain control of the urgent situation quickly.
Amazing communication on the part of all parties. Very professional all around.
Nice job by the pilot on the radio handled the situation like a true professional
Must have been heavy smoke not just a little bit by the pilots initial reaction 😮. Panic yet trying to stay calm and cool at the same time. Good job getting her back in one piece. 🫣🫡
A Christmas Eve Miracle
No miracle. Just good piloting and proper training.
Interesting video. Not usually do you see situations so "rushed". Often emergencies follow a more formal procedure. Great job by everyone involved though.
If its not rushed, its not an emergency is it?
It shouldn't be rushed, these aren't professionals.
In fairness to them, a fire in the cockpit is one of the very few emergency situations where time is absolutely of the essence.
@@fpt9694 not an excuse to panic
@@craig7350 there are multiple emergency situations in this channel, such as engine failure, loss of cabin pressure etc, that the pilots were calm, folllowed a hold pattern to do checklists and line up to land. They are all emergencies, but this one is an "extreme" one
It is SOOO infuriating to hear ATC repeatedly say climb to 2000 ,AFTER the pilots had already said they couldn't climb and could barely maintain 1500 . Oh and while your at it ,can you also change frequencies several times and once again repeat your emergency and that you need vectors and CAN'T climb . I seriously cannot believe that in this day and age of technology , an EMERGENCY situation requires pilots to constantly change frequencies and repeat the nature of the emergency to every new controller that takes over . Once the emergency has been declared or even a PAN PAN , leave them with ONE controller on ONE frequency. The technology to do so must exist ,but isn't used due to cost probably .
check EHAM emergencies, they usually have one radio switch, to a dedicated frequency.
@howsthis4aname
My thoughts exactly! Seems like way too much unnecessary fumbling around by ATC.
Why couldn't tower just provide vectors back in, that close to the airport?
Got my PPL at KTEB back in 1999.
For what it's worth I think the caption at 2:08 might be wrong. Sounded to me like he said "yes ma'am, I can climb". But still, that he could only do 1500 wasn't forwarded to approach. Not sure why that frequency change was necessary.
Absolutely terrible job by ATC
Pilots can always just answer with 'unable'.
Woah. That was intense. Bet those guys were happy to get back on the ground.
A lot of terrains at 700 feet - first called for help they’re 600 feet - for sure you ask for powwwer and climb !
Great job bringing plane back from pilots
It seems like they never called mayday but good on ATC and other pilots for immediately knowing it was dangerous
Yeah, unless it got lost in the edit, they didn't call Panpan or Mayday. We hear that left out in a lot of the American recordings. Maybe it's the dollar fear of calling an ambulance in the USA bleeding into their flying.
@@45KevinRthat’s funny. The controller understood entirely what was happening from their messages. Who cares about other countries hyper-fixation on pan-pan or mayday. This pilot got their point across, was understood, and landed safely without it. Maybe see that instead of getting hung up on America so much.
They kept giving the climb and maintain 2000’ before they gave vectors. I believe this is because of minimum vectoring altitude (MVA). I’ve seen controllers make the decision, in the interest of safety, to vector regardless but it seems tower wasn’t willing to. Approach accepted 1500’ and still issued vectors so I wonder if they made that judgement call.
You are absolutely right. If we vector an aircraft below the MVA, the controller has to get pilot concurrence to accept responsibility of maintaining visual clearance from ground obstacles, which in this situation, just isn't practical because of the weather and the emergency.
Tower can't provide radar vectors for an IFR approach because they aren't radar certified. That's why the TRACON has to do it.
You're also right in that the tracon made the judgment call to vector them below the MVA because the situation warranted it. If something went wrong, and thank God it didn't, ATC would share blame in the accident because they issued vectors below the MVA. That being said, I think the controllers handled the situation extremely well and knew what needed to be done to get the pilot in a position to safely land the plane.
I thought they did a great job. Panic can happen to anyone. It's how you handle panic that is important.
Its always crazy hearing adrenaline spikes and fight or flight (no pun intented) kicking in. Great job all involved!
MAN, I really felt for these pilots. I was a nervous wreck when they kept asking for vectors, and ATC wasn't doing it at first. So glad they made it okay. I assume they had to change their underwear after they landed.
That is very scary! Great job to the crew utilizing ATC as CRM!
Legend has it Ted is still climbing to this day
Classic Ted.
Get your shit together, Ted. Power, climb!
Man, my heart skipped a beat hearing those intense moments, especially those 'CLIMB! CLIMB!' and 'POWER! POWER!' transmissions. 😲
It seemed very complex to hand the aircraft between so many controllers when the pilots may have been struggling to even see the numbers on their radios. While the different controllers normally handle different tasks and pathways this feels like an occasion to collaborate more, and give the pilots one less job to do in the blind.
Man they just missed the ABC antenna just north and west of the approach end of 19.
That antenna used to be a lot taller.. thank God they cut it down years ago.. or else the bada bing would have been bang boom
1:05 I was very briefly confused thinking I heard cars honking which created a very funny leslie nielson-esque image in my mind.
It almost sounded like a stall horn….but not sure what it sounds like on a hawker
They must be watching your channel Victor. Well, I asume, as this time trucks' radios were spotless, crystal clear! 😂
Everything else has been said already. Great video once again, and so glad everything turned out ok. Thank you!
I thought we had smoke in the cockpit once. Smelled like electric wires burning and came back. . . turns out a nearly empty coffee pot was loaded into a hot plate and was burning . . .smells putrid and just like wires. I still think i made the right choice . . .
It was the right decision. If you ignored it and it were a worse problem, we potentially could have been reading about it in an accident report rather than hearing it from you.
And the remain calm award goes to him.
Solid effort there
KTEB is a tricky enough departure as it is, without having smoke billowing into the cockpit, kudos to the pilots for making sound decisions, declaring the emergency immediately and flying the plane. I guess they may have been trying to remain under a cloud base, to remain in VMC, even though they had a cockpit full of smoke, good decision by them though to overrule the ATC request to go up to 2000’ as it could have compounded their situation, being in IMC without a clear view of your instruments is a recipe for disaster, well done them. Great job by ATC also, thankfully this had a safe outcome, well done to all involved.
That horn you hear in the background when he keys the mic, means a couple of things. Airbrake isn’t stowed correctly and he selected flaps, overspeed, cabin altitude and or having flaps 25 without landing gear. Personally I think they either had the air brake not fully stowed or landing flaps down without the gear. It has happened to me before where I thought I stowed the airbrake completely after using it to slow down, than selecting flaps, and the horn was going off and I couldn’t figure out why right away.
Speedbrakes stow automatically when past certain thrust lever angle in my Citation. I am very sure it is the same in this Hawker? I can only think of landing gear or overspeed.
@@VASAviationno unfortunately the speed brakes do not stow automatically. At least in the hawkers I flew lol.
Surprised I didn't hear that first controller, after hearing her read off every RWY at TET, finish her TX with: "... or whatever runway you need for your little smoke in the cockpit issue".
On a serious note however, during a low altitude emergency such as that, I would've liked to hear the tower coordinate with N90 to keep the PM from having to piss with the radio- especially in a potentially smoke filled cockpit during poor visibility, and especially after hearing his frantic commands to the PF... Glad this frightening situation worked out.
Gee it's possible to land with no information on souls on board or fuel in pounds Amazing
Good work all around.
Wow. That’s scary. Nice work by all 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
smoke in the cockpit is my worst nightmare and I'm not even a pilot
Man, that was terrifying!
That was a close one.
I have flown and maintained these type of hawkers.
These jets are most resistant and roughed.
If you keep some speed up you can do anything with it.
I wonder what made the smoke.
"IF" you had to crash in any corp bird out there the Hawker is the one you want to do it in. brick shit house doesn't even come close to describing these things.
I fuked with them when they had Vipers on them and 731 conversions wer just coming out
Ya should’ve caught the audio of just prior to their departure.
You would’ve heard the pilot request to deplane on the taxiway to do a tactile feel of the wing.
Damn hearing the pilots saying climb, power and hearing warnings in the background was frightening!!!!!!
Hands down my biggest fear! Great job from ATC and the crew.
I am very confused by how this went down. I would think "smoke in the cockpit" would require a "land immediately" mentality. It seems like the tower and pilots thought this also, and considering the weather, smoke, and control issues up to and including the request for vectors at 2:11, everything was being handled as well as can exoected. But then why didn't tower give immediate vectors to runway 19 (which was the closest and longest runway)? And why would there be a hand-off to Approach? That was a lot of wasted time. Had they been on fire, that could have cost them dearly. Remember Saudia Flight 163?
Vectors were illicit given the aircraft's position in space. The tower instead gave something legal, the position of the airport. Consider also that it seemed the aircraft was having power issues, and tempting them into a low-power, tight turn when they can't see could have resulted in the aircraft packing it in and killing everyone. As noted in the event, they overshot anyway as they were too close to make it work.
Look at the SPECI, field is IMC. So only option is for a Precision approach, ILS 19. If the pilot loses sight of the runway Tower is not going to give a vector towards the final if the guy is in the clouds unable to see anything. Also look at the map, the guy is at 600ft and a vector towards the final would mean a right turn right into a 693ft obstacle.
Clime Ted clime! That’s terrifying, and you can hear the heavy breathing. Great job!! Anyone know what the actual problem was?
This scares the crap out of me as I live close to the airport.. I think it's the only smaller size airport with a commercial Tower
Incorrect. I got my PPL there in 98/99, but since it's extremely busy with jets, touch & go's were prohibited. So we would fly over to Caldwell Airport (aka Essex Co. Airport) and Morristown Airport (where I soloed) to practice landings. Both are relatively close to TEB and both have control towers and are smaller than TEB. All three are Class D airports with ATC.
@@Redtail_PilotI don't think you understand what I said. Teterboro has a taller ATC tower like normal airports
@@johnringoo756 Doesn't matter how tall or new a control tower is. The three of them are Class D airports with ATC (tower controllers). What's a "normal airport" ?
In the aftermath then will be looking at possible battery fires in any lithium powered items, I'm sure. Or any other potential causes of a relatively short but intense burst of life-threatening smoke... phew. Glad it turned out so well.
"Getting situated here" -- I can see needing a moment to let the adrenaline subside.
@wlhamaty
Time to pull the seat cover outa yer butt. High pucker factor!
- Landed with visibility 1/2 the other day.
- Miles?
- Feet.
With smoke in the cockpit, I'd have though the "first responder" to the emergency call should have kept the aircraft in that frequency and given them more help lining up for an approach asap. Not that I'm any kind of expert, of course, but with smoke in the cockpit, is there time to be handing the crew from one frequency to another (and another, and another)?
Fire and smoke for me is the worst situation on board
And that was another good day...
All's well that ends well.
Pretty emotional, this one. Was sitting on edge of my seat. Whatever happened, happened fast and then they suddenly found themselves dealing with terrain. They'll take a while coming down from all that adrenaline. Why's there no tears of relief or happiness emoji?
HOLY CRAP!!!!
Understatement.
Does KTEB have actual human weather observers? Unusual to see SPECI or non-"AUTO" weather reports.
Yeah that was scary. Thank heavens it worked out and this videos didn’t end up on Juan’s channel.
This is the shit… these guys are fighting for their lives. Great job by all. Wow. Had to take a BP pill just to listen to it. Crazy he couldn’t climb and then everything is ok.
Why isn't there an emergency procedure where the pilots don't have to change frequencies and fly standard approaches?
Great job on the crew, but re-evaluating I feel ATC could have delivered more smooth assistance. Aircraft indicating not being able to climb, yet getting instructions to climb to 2.000 for instance.
Did they declare an emergency before this clip started? It's pretty obvious that smoke in the cockpit it likely an emergency, but the declaration or mayday call puts every one in response mode automatically.
No
That was intense. 😮
Maybe I missed it or maybe the transmissions were trimmed, but I never heard an emergency declared.
Never was declared
That was scary 🥲
Did they have masks on? maybe the masks in the hawker sound a lot better than on the planes I fly
It was a 135 bird so not sure if smoke hoods are mandatory- they probably popped the windows open to clear the smoke - just took a few
@@tyronetrump1612 surely a hawker has O2 masks with goggles in the cockpit-that's the first step on any smoke/fumes emergency lol
@@bluehorseshoe9216 Yeah forgot about those Desert Storm era M44 goggles in a bag.... that usually are never where they are supposed to be. Mostly found covered with pilots hubris and knick knacks in the side arm cubby. I know some 135 outfits have smoke hoods as required equipment
@@bluehorseshoe9216 Yes it is.
Smoke in the cockpit, climb Ted climb. Hey, Mr. Blackmore, possible idea here ....
Sounds like bleed air contamination, as there was no mention of a fire. Being unable to climb seems a mystery, except increasing the power might have been increasing the "smoke"?
Yikes! CLIMB CLIMB and POWER POWER POWER have me shaking more than a little right now. But it's okay. I'm just glad they got back on the ground safely!
Nice job as always 🙌🏻 Do you have any recordings of the Crash of the Azerbaijan plane yesterday?
Harrowing…
I have always wanted to put on a course on ATc listening to what is happening. Can’t climb, we are stable - they clear him to 2000. He asks for terrain, they ask him to climb. Clearing to land any runway - he has zero visibility but no rate one timed turn is suggested. To many freq changes. ATC needs to listen in emergency. Too many questions. I’d make a fortune sharing my techniques.
Not what I would call panic.
The guy was telling the pilot flying what he needed to do and it was more important to climb the plane and keep it flying then release the push to talk button.
Not sure what happened here. But the guy on the radio had good enough situational awareness to recognize the problem, work the problem, talk to ATC and not let the pilot flying crash the plane.
Good Job.
Panic is what made him shout CLIMB three times. The word panic as well as fear shouldn't always be taken as a negative word. It's a human reaction to a death situation to stay alive. We train every six months in a simulator not only to know the memory items and which buttons to push first but also to help our own positive human reactions and counteract the negative ones. When you face it in the real world, you feel panic. You're human.
Hard to say. I certainly have opinions about some of what I heard, but they are just opinions at this point. I am glad they found a way through this.
Training is one thing, but if the smoke is bad enough where you can't see the instruments.....yeah, I'd say panic is a reasonable reaction.
@@jaylasky4313 lmao
@@VASAviation Still not what I classify as panic. I'd classify what he did as doing your job.
We induce stress in the simulator so you can overcome that stress and perform your duties without panicking. I think you're getting the semantics wrong.
Panic stops you from being able to do your job.
Regardless of that I understand what you mean I just don't think panic is the correct word.
But that's my opinion.
So why could they not climb? Smoke that disappeared we got, but what happened to the ability to climb? This did not seem like it was going to end well!
It's probably lucky that they didn't spot a runway while they were dealing with the chaos of a smoke-filled cockpit. They were trying to do a fighter break at five hundred feet and drop it back down. Can't see that working out.
Have you got anything on the crash landing in Belfast city airport the other day?
So, with that much smoke they would had a very hard time doing checklists, given one had to have their face planted on the instruments while the other flies the plane.
we can't climb. ATC: climb and maintain....
Curious... Why did the want/need to climb? Were they literally too close to the ground?
Yes
@VASAviation thanks!
Can someone clarify that the ATC commands to change off the Tower frequency are best practice? That obviously shifts workload onto the pilot, and at the altitudes indicated, from a pilot's perspective I don't get it. Was there a good reason for this?
The field is IMC, so the pilot needed to get a precision approach back into the runway in order to land. Most Tower controllers do not have radar training and are not qualified to give radar services. Therefore, the only person able to give them the radar services needed to bring them back around and clear them for the approach was the approach controller. So you have to switch them to their frequency, now the radar controller did issue him a landing clearance but that’s probably because that was coordinated with the tower and the tower controller told the radar controller to issue that clearance. Tower controllers that have a Bravo airspace are able to give limited radar service.
@breakforcontrol-f6l thank you