This is why “point to objective” is in the game. If you’re lost just press that and it’ll guide you to where you need to go, not spend ages looking for the place you need to go. This is why you should play the tutorial
Great video, interesting topic! I get your point, but I think some of these "stop and look around" moments we see here actually have a positive effect. It's good to slightly break that railroading, of effortlessly moving forward from time to time! I like these short moments of panic where you don't see the next step right in front of you, but instead need to look around and think fast. They take you by surprise, subvert expectation, and that's exciting to me... As long as its fast, of course. Like just a few seconds... If you *actually* get stuck there for a long time then yes, it's bad. For instance here 3:55 I think its executed very well, because you naturally go to the door, realize that its locked, then simply have to turn around to spot it. But here 4:54 it takes a long time before you get redirected, feels definitely excessive. Your vision that "Mirror's Edge is like a racing game" is great and interesting, but it's really *your* vision for the gameplay- perhaps not what the developer intended? What you are saying is totally applicable to some other games though, I'm sure. What do you think?
The 4:54 is a falied attempt to make the player turn around and run away from a "dangerous event". As you can see when the player reaches the corner the helicopter is scripted to shoot through the construction cloth, this is trying to make you understand that the path ahead is dangerous and shoulnd't be taken just by infusing you fear. However, the event is triggered with the wrong timing. You can see the cloth ripping in the moment you are climbing the last floor... and that's designed to make the player focus on the cloth instead of running.. but that's not what's happening. 2 reasons: 1- The event needs to give more feedback to the player, at this moment of the game the player has been chased down and shooted a few times, and the cloth ripping is not something uncommon. 2- The player have been walking and jumping through the construction zone and his urge to gain that "running flow" is growing. So, when they visually see that they reached the last floor, they trigger the 'run' state and starts searching for exits. This could have been avoided with a more visual feedback from the helicopter (maybe shooting the wall a few times or even with an explosion) or maybe with part of the structure being destroyed (I don't think that ME had this 'blocking environment' as a pilar).
I guess they would argue that they made those changes to make you panic in high stress moment. If it was just fast effortless running it would be boring after a while. No peaks and valleys. I guess they were meant as little puzzles where you have stop to find the exit instead of just pushing forward. If this was a movie scene, the protagonist would end his run facing a wall while chased, and needs to find a clever way to escape while with his back against a wall. But I agree, they are poorly design, lack of visual cues like light, colors or shapes. Also the rhythm is so uniform that when you find these area you think "this is a bug" and not "ah! I'm in one of those movie scenarios".
Agreed. Interesting you mention rhythm and the movie scene example. Second tutorial I have in this "Mirror's Edge" series (next week) I actually use a movie chase scene example.
Just wanna drop by and give a huge Thank to You for all that you're doing. Fantastic content and invaluable for aspiring single (and small team) developers like me. Its like having the best level design school simply in my YT playlist. I am so amazed that this channel exists and I can study and internalize all of that golden and well explained information (actually I create my own documents when watching, for always being able to access and refresh the info I learned from your vids later on - and also be able to reference it during production phase when needed). After studying a ton on the art and coding side the last years, before even actually jumping into any of my serious projects, I'm now looking more and more into the level design sides of things. And this is where I can't be happier that this channel exists. It helps me a lot with learning the game flow kinds of things properly, aside from the prettyness of assets or the functionality of code. Although there is some overlap when it comes to Composition and Design and Coding principles, it is an art in itself and super exciting. Love this aspect. And I think it is important to not jus see it as a by-product. Seriously: Thanks from the heart for all the effort and stuff you put out over the years. So much value. So much appreciated.
Thank you so much Harry. I really appreciate that. I'm happy to know there are artists and designers who are intensely passionate about game environment art and level design. I will continue to share what I'm learning and doing to help as much as I can.
I get what you mean. But in my opinion that part where you get stuck is meant to make you stop for a while and analyse your situation. It doesn't have to be constantly spoonfed to the player
I don't think the path is necessarily spoon-fed per se. The way I see it is that they're suggesting a path. Otherwise spoon-fed would indicate a massive objective marker
I feel like the section at 4:50 is justifiable. Considering after blowing the hole on the tarp and the helecopter showing itself right in front of the hole would make most players wanna go the opposite way of the what is shooting at it. It dosent make sense to me why they want you to slam your face into what is shooting you.
I think there is a deeper issue there and it's probably because you know you can get away with it. As you can see he didn't die and I believe he thought he wouldn't either. I know I felt the power as if I was going to be fine when I played this part. Now if you went that way and died it would be different or if you died in similar areas. The power of thought of being nearly invincible when being shot at which this game gives me that feeling a lot of the time makes me reckless in certain areas such as this. Just my opinion though.
You're both very right, ifelt the same with op and your perspective of it. To encourage eplayers to ind a different route, I think almost intantanoeus death via helicopter fire woul be right or for players who still think they can beat it, a massive gap that spells death all over it if you tried to make such a jump. And just to cement that philosophy, either nowhere to jump or a clear, inescapable hazard like scattered spikes, a pile of sharp debris. etc.
I personally liked this parts, because for me they made game more realistic. Puting this puzzles in is such moments was frustating to some degree, but this not obvious ways made me think "I'm a runner. I must find ways that are only usuable for a person with my skills and this ways will not always visible at a glance."
I agree with you to a degree, but doesn’t making the correct path always within sight prioritize tunnel vision-ing your way through the game? Holding W and looking for a visual cue doesn’t sound like good level design.
I've had this same problem a couple of times however at much less points in the game. This problem is remedied by the objective button which literally points you in the direction you need to go. It isn't always the best but for things like the 180 during the scaffolding part, you'd be able to preemptively see that even before jumping to the scaffolding which can be done while running towards it so you know where to go without being forced in a direction that breaks your momentum.
Came in wanting to knock you for knocking Mirror's Edge. You ended up making some good points. What sucks is how difficult it is to reward the player for making good choices. While guiding players seamlessly like butter through every level, wouldn't it be even better if the player could stop, look around just like Faith would, and pick an escape route? I imagine that's what DICE was going for, and if they executed that feeling right it would have been superior to just holding the player's hand through every single level, making the player feel like THEY were Faith and it was THEIR REASONING that helped them escape, not the level's hand-holding. You think the levels would have been better if the exits were superior. You're right. I also think it would have been better if Merc hinted through the radio, "Faith, dead end up ahead! Can you see a way out?" Then the game would have given the player the opportunity to feel more like Faith. Finally, you mention at 7:35 that geometry reworking may be necessary. I have found that light (literally, in-game light) and light shimmering are two extremely underrated components in level design. Player's eyes are drawn to level areas that have a literal, physical "spotlight" or generally brightly lit area in-game, and they are surprisingly effective at pointing players where to go. Or a subtle "sparkle" that contrasts against the rest of the environment. Some of the examples you mentioned could be fixed with this and it would not require the design-compromising geometry change.
Good points. I remember when playing this years ago having the same frustrations at certain points, not knowing where to go. I felt like I was doing the wrong thing. But didn't account it to design 'mistakes'...Great analysis here.
Good points, I gotta say that I like the exploration of finding where to go while taking some time to look at the beautiful scenery though. I thing stopping and having a more puzzle situation of finding paths is really fun inbetween fast paced sections, add variety and time to catch your breath and make the next fast sections feel better. The thing is that those slower sections should still have fast ways to do them as a skilled player could make use of em and encourage replay/speedrun. I agree some spots arent well designed and the transition from fast to slower pace should be smooth and well done
I think the example at 5:55 didn’t really interrupt flow, you move up the stairs and you see the guards rushing in, which makes you turn around to evade them then you see the way to go
Dude,here 4:57 you literally saw that it was blocked and with the use of the blocks you could climb to it...but then you decided 5:03 to go down.. knowing that you literally came from that blocked floor. Here also 2:53 you saw that second floor balcony-like bridge yet you ran to that place 3:08 knowing that there's no red door. I think you need to pay attention to your surroundings more.
In your first example, it would have been an easier fix if the door was swung outward towards the main hallway instead of inward. It would have been much more noticeable even with its gray color. And they could have added in some heat pipes with caution stripes above the air vent where you climbed up.
Second example: You can just use that wall from 'dead' end to make 180* jump and just fast climb. But sure, I'll agree that devs should made it clearer to spot it. Third example with helicopter: Well, you are supposed to run from helicopter, no straight forward to its fire. That's why.
This is a very constructive analysis and I agree, but I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion you draw. I think some clear *indication* should be within the player's view - not necessarily the path itself. The latter would severely hamper the expressiveness level designers would have available. The game consistently teaches you "follow the red"; it even uses it as a gag in one of the elevators ("signs your children are runners: obsession with the color red") but at the moments the player needs it the most they ditch it. For example in the first section in the office 3:28; they could have made the logo something incorporating an arrow, which would then light up red and point towards the exit. Chase, the second level, is where the game hits something fairly close to a homerun in my opinion; it's simple enough for the player to be able to run through it almost entirely without being interrupted. Some later levels are deliberately slower, but I still think Chase is the best map in the game.
If all you had to do was hold W the whole game it would be braindead. Part of thinking on your feet is also looking around for a faster route and your exit. I did not get stuck on these parts on my first playthrough. It is asinine to say that the player should never have to turn around. There is also literally a button in the game that will point your camera to the next objective so if you get stuck you can just use that without ever losing that much flow.
The problem is the hint button helps with figuring out where to go, but doesn't fix the flow-breaking issue. Catalyst doesn't have a hint button and yet it doesn't need one. That being said, Catalyst was probably a bit dumbed down, but that is another conversation...
@@giannis_tar catalyst literally has a more advanced version of runners vision where it literally shows u right in your face where you're supposed to go. Turned it off immediately lol
I am a huge fan of the series and I recently replayed the original ME on PC after completing it countless times on PS3 years ago. I must say, you are absolutely right. I used to think the reviews were extremely hard on the game back then (and I still think so, but to a lesser degree), but now that I'm older (and a little more spoiled) I noticed way more game design flaws than I did back then. The problem with the original game is that the flow breaks too easily on the first playthrough, it relies a lot on trial and error, and you lose momentum way too easily in general. That being said, Catalyst massively improved those aspects, and yet it was still ripped apart by reviews. In any case, I think both games are a solid 8/10.
Yea I personally was attempting to do one ( I am mainly a 3D hard surface prop/weapon artist) but I am struggling with UE4 lighting concepts which I am trying to learn. Would love you to attempt one. Of course it doesnt have to be massive but maybe just a mirrors edge feel to it. I was doing a simple one with some pipes on the top etc haha
I understand your point of view, but if all the escape routes were extremely easy to see, it wouldn't make the chases more challenging, I think that mirrors edge brought some of the immersion that a person in real life would have when being chased, There would be no red line indicating where to go, you would simply have to use a little more of your brain to draw a new path or decipher where to go like a puzzle.
Some of the issues also might’ve had to do with mirrors edge being designed for mouse and keyboard. With a mouse you tend to look around more instead of keeping at the same level.
K, I dont think what this video said were really issues especially with the hint key existing but this game was super not made for Mouse and keyboard. The game was released on console first and then ported over.
I had the exact same issues. Now, I get disrupting the flow is a commen comment here, but this game is all about speed. its basically a walking simulator, but faster. sure there are times where they had known that this would happen, thus they blocked it, but in other cases, giving a false way, was probably a watcha gonna do now moment, even if unintended. I still thin that, despite these small "flaws", the game is still a excelent case study on direction, flow and telling a story, with doing nothing literary walking, even if the walking is very fast :D
I agree. It is still a great game and in the next 2 tutorials in this "Mirror's Edge" series I show you what I've learned about level design despite some issues as in this video.
I thought I was the only one who thought that this game has bad game design, level design in this game is quite all over the place. Not only the level design but the amount of bugs that ruin the flow of the game like not rolling, not grabbing onto a ledge when the players wants to. All these types of bugs ruined the game for me. One thing you missed in this video is that when the player goes the wrong way the game denies actions like grabbing onto the ledge which leads to the frustration. The game doesn't encourage the player to look for another option. Maybe another thing is when you are out in the open the lights are so bright that its hard to see much on screen, or on buildings most of the texture is masked by a ginormous mask of light. The most annoying level for me was when you get out of the sewers, guards attack you and you disarm them. Where do I go from there? Climb on top of a truck and jump over the fence to see a red door to access. This door is almost completely hidden by the fact that this area is way too big than it needs to be. I have also noticed that this game has a serious problem with adding checkpoints in hard moments and in general a lack of checkpoints overall.
Good points. Yeah I agree. The Atrium climb level was the most frustrating for me. The amount of times I fell thinking I should be able to make this jump and grab onto that ledge. Even after completing multiple times, I dread playing through it.
Huh. I mean if they told me more clearly that the right way to go is behind me than it might have been fine. After all, there is a specific button for “quick turn” and there’s also a button to point you the right direction. If they had made it more obvious maybe it would have worked better
Your suggestion is overfixing it and creating new problems. The game couldn't be allowed to be over in 2 hours on the first playthrough, being a high budget full price game. These places where you have to look around and might die a couple times help stretch out the game to the 10 hours that it normally takes on first run. Yes it's artificial padding of sorts and you shouldn't go overboard with that, but it plays well with other design decisions in the game. The game is also designed for Xbox360 which is a problem with very very slow disk compared to the amount of data that needs to be ingested for rendering, so it has to regularly deliberately halt you to let data load in. These are the game's type of high pressure puzzles. They can't be too complex, or it would get frustrating or outright impossible for many players during the chase sequences, but they can't just be as simple as running where your nose is pointing. It gives you a little scare when you don't know where to go for a second, heightening tension, but it's also not too frustrating. Flow isn't the only key attraction of ME, another one is a palpable sense of danger, using horror elements. Note also the falling animation/sound and how some NPCs and setpiece events assault you, horror elements. And finally this makes the world feel less artificial. Because often times the games make the mistake that the world too obviously exists only around the player and for the player, and having to go the other way, getting lost, counters that perception, the world gains more of a character of its own. This is what counterweighs the artificiality of padding and makes this a sensible design choice.
Yes, this is cheap difficulty. Game developers usually do not be effort for real difficulty, rather than use cheap and boring difficulty methods. I saw this mostly in Dark Souls games, especially Dark Souls 2.
I'm sorry, but if you don't know where to go it is your problem. Not bad game design. The ways are obvious and they never broke momentum. Plus, your whole argumentation falls like a house of cards if you include the ingame feature where Faith looks in the direction where you have to go if being in doubt. Seems like someone here was lazy while playing and not willing to think for a moment.
This is why “point to objective” is in the game. If you’re lost just press that and it’ll guide you to where you need to go, not spend ages looking for the place you need to go. This is why you should play the tutorial
Wow, you got stuck EXACTLY in the same places as me!
Same here, the heat chapter especially!
I think that was made intentionally to break you of easiness... if you would make everything effortless that wouldn't make it as much fun.
Fair point.
Although many times it felt more frustrating than challenging.
Great video, interesting topic!
I get your point, but I think some of these "stop and look around" moments we see here actually have a positive effect. It's good to slightly break that railroading, of effortlessly moving forward from time to time!
I like these short moments of panic where you don't see the next step right in front of you, but instead need to look around and think fast. They take you by surprise, subvert expectation, and that's exciting to me... As long as its fast, of course. Like just a few seconds... If you *actually* get stuck there for a long time then yes, it's bad.
For instance here 3:55 I think its executed very well, because you naturally go to the door, realize that its locked, then simply have to turn around to spot it.
But here 4:54 it takes a long time before you get redirected, feels definitely excessive.
Your vision that "Mirror's Edge is like a racing game" is great and interesting, but it's really *your* vision for the gameplay- perhaps not what the developer intended? What you are saying is totally applicable to some other games though, I'm sure.
What do you think?
Good points Mike. Very valid. Thanks for sharing!
The 4:54 is a falied attempt to make the player turn around and run away from a "dangerous event".
As you can see when the player reaches the corner the helicopter is scripted to shoot through the construction cloth, this is trying to make you understand that the path ahead is dangerous and shoulnd't be taken just by infusing you fear.
However, the event is triggered with the wrong timing. You can see the cloth ripping in the moment you are climbing the last floor... and that's designed to make the player focus on the cloth instead of running.. but that's not what's happening.
2 reasons:
1- The event needs to give more feedback to the player, at this moment of the game the player has been chased
down and shooted a few times, and the cloth ripping is not something uncommon.
2- The player have been walking and jumping through the construction zone and his urge to gain that "running
flow" is growing. So, when they visually see that they reached the last floor, they trigger the 'run' state and
starts searching for exits.
This could have been avoided with a more visual feedback from the helicopter (maybe shooting the wall a few times or even with an explosion) or maybe with part of the structure being destroyed (I don't think that ME had this 'blocking environment' as a pilar).
plus theres a hint key if you really hate it
I guess they would argue that they made those changes to make you panic in high stress moment. If it was just fast effortless running it would be boring after a while. No peaks and valleys. I guess they were meant as little puzzles where you have stop to find the exit instead of just pushing forward. If this was a movie scene, the protagonist would end his run facing a wall while chased, and needs to find a clever way to escape while with his back against a wall.
But I agree, they are poorly design, lack of visual cues like light, colors or shapes. Also the rhythm is so uniform that when you find these area you think "this is a bug" and not "ah! I'm in one of those movie scenarios".
Agreed.
Interesting you mention rhythm and the movie scene example. Second tutorial I have in this "Mirror's Edge" series (next week) I actually use a movie chase scene example.
Just wanna drop by and give a huge Thank to You for all that you're doing. Fantastic content and invaluable for aspiring single (and small team) developers like me. Its like having the best level design school simply in my YT playlist. I am so amazed that this channel exists and I can study and internalize all of that golden and well explained information (actually I create my own documents when watching, for always being able to access and refresh the info I learned from your vids later on - and also be able to reference it during production phase when needed). After studying a ton on the art and coding side the last years, before even actually jumping into any of my serious projects, I'm now looking more and more into the level design sides of things. And this is where I can't be happier that this channel exists. It helps me a lot with learning the game flow kinds of things properly, aside from the prettyness of assets or the functionality of code. Although there is some overlap when it comes to Composition and Design and Coding principles, it is an art in itself and super exciting. Love this aspect. And I think it is important to not jus see it as a by-product. Seriously: Thanks from the heart for all the effort and stuff you put out over the years. So much value. So much appreciated.
Thank you so much Harry. I really appreciate that.
I'm happy to know there are artists and designers who are intensely passionate about game environment art and level design. I will continue to share what I'm learning and doing to help as much as I can.
I kinda liked it, it made it feel less gamey, like the environment wasn't just built for me. I can understand why they feel pointless tho.
I get what you mean. But in my opinion that part where you get stuck is meant to make you stop for a while and analyse your situation. It doesn't have to be constantly spoonfed to the player
I don't think the path is necessarily spoon-fed per se. The way I see it is that they're suggesting a path. Otherwise spoon-fed would indicate a massive objective marker
I feel like the section at 4:50 is justifiable. Considering after blowing the hole on the tarp and the helecopter showing itself right in front of the hole would make most players wanna go the opposite way of the what is shooting at it. It dosent make sense to me why they want you to slam your face into what is shooting you.
I think there is a deeper issue there and it's probably because you know you can get away with it. As you can see he didn't die and I believe he thought he wouldn't either. I know I felt the power as if I was going to be fine when I played this part. Now if you went that way and died it would be different or if you died in similar areas. The power of thought of being nearly invincible when being shot at which this game gives me that feeling a lot of the time makes me reckless in certain areas such as this. Just my opinion though.
I can see your point. Although my first instinct isn't to stop and turn around but keep going instead.
They should have destroyed the path in front of you entirely then, would have made a greater "Surprise! Find another way!" effect I think...
You're both very right, ifelt the same with op and your perspective of it. To encourage eplayers to ind a different route, I think almost intantanoeus death via helicopter fire woul be right or for players who still think they can beat it, a massive gap that spells death all over it if you tried to make such a jump. And just to cement that philosophy, either nowhere to jump or a clear, inescapable hazard like scattered spikes, a pile of sharp debris. etc.
@@mikeGNTR Another solution would be to have the helicopter actually damage you but not kill you.
The helecopter part was intentionally confusing to make the player feel trapped and backtrack, out of options.
BUT THE FLOW WAS DISRUPTED!!! (I've never played Mirrors Edge though XD)
I personally liked this parts, because for me they made game more realistic. Puting this puzzles in is such moments was frustating to some degree, but this not obvious ways made me think "I'm a runner. I must find ways that are only usuable for a person with my skills and this ways will not always visible at a glance."
I agree with you to a degree, but doesn’t making the correct path always within sight prioritize tunnel vision-ing your way through the game? Holding W and looking for a visual cue doesn’t sound like good level design.
yeah plus its fucking braindead and makes the game boring
But I like when games makes me think. I dont like obvious hints with red flashing objects. If it becomes too easy, it will be boring.
I've had this same problem a couple of times however at much less points in the game. This problem is remedied by the objective button which literally points you in the direction you need to go. It isn't always the best but for things like the 180 during the scaffolding part, you'd be able to preemptively see that even before jumping to the scaffolding which can be done while running towards it so you know where to go without being forced in a direction that breaks your momentum.
Came in wanting to knock you for knocking Mirror's Edge. You ended up making some good points. What sucks is how difficult it is to reward the player for making good choices. While guiding players seamlessly like butter through every level, wouldn't it be even better if the player could stop, look around just like Faith would, and pick an escape route? I imagine that's what DICE was going for, and if they executed that feeling right it would have been superior to just holding the player's hand through every single level, making the player feel like THEY were Faith and it was THEIR REASONING that helped them escape, not the level's hand-holding.
You think the levels would have been better if the exits were superior. You're right. I also think it would have been better if Merc hinted through the radio, "Faith, dead end up ahead! Can you see a way out?" Then the game would have given the player the opportunity to feel more like Faith.
Finally, you mention at 7:35 that geometry reworking may be necessary. I have found that light (literally, in-game light) and light shimmering are two extremely underrated components in level design. Player's eyes are drawn to level areas that have a literal, physical "spotlight" or generally brightly lit area in-game, and they are surprisingly effective at pointing players where to go. Or a subtle "sparkle" that contrasts against the rest of the environment. Some of the examples you mentioned could be fixed with this and it would not require the design-compromising geometry change.
Good points. I remember when playing this years ago having the same frustrations at certain points, not knowing where to go. I felt like I was doing the wrong thing. But didn't account it to design 'mistakes'...Great analysis here.
Thanks Brendan!
use the hint key
Figuring out where to go is so rewarding. This game excels at making progression itself the reward
I really enjoy this channel; this video gave me a lot to think about. Thanks!
Thanks for watching Bevan.
That's exactly what I wanted from the video. Thinking about your own work so you can improve.
I got stuck at the point where you had to break glass to proceed forward, had no idea you could do that and learned it from a walkthrough :P
Good points, I gotta say that I like the exploration of finding where to go while taking some time to look at the beautiful scenery though.
I thing stopping and having a more puzzle situation of finding paths is really fun inbetween fast paced sections, add variety and time to catch your breath and make the next fast sections feel better. The thing is that those slower sections should still have fast ways to do them as a skilled player could make use of em and encourage replay/speedrun.
I agree some spots arent well designed and the transition from fast to slower pace should be smooth and well done
I think the example at 5:55 didn’t really interrupt flow, you move up the stairs and you see the guards rushing in, which makes you turn around to evade them then you see the way to go
I agree with all of these. I also think the gunplay breaks the flow since you can't move around as much.
Dude,here 4:57 you literally saw that it was blocked and with the use of the blocks you could climb to it...but then you decided 5:03 to go down.. knowing that you literally came from that blocked floor. Here also 2:53 you saw that second floor balcony-like bridge yet you ran to that place 3:08 knowing that there's no red door. I think you need to pay attention to your surroundings more.
In your first example, it would have been an easier fix if the door was swung outward towards the main hallway instead of inward. It would have been much more noticeable even with its gray color.
And they could have added in some heat pipes with caution stripes above the air vent where you climbed up.
That would have been perfect.
Second example:
You can just use that wall from 'dead' end to make 180* jump and just fast climb. But sure, I'll agree that devs should made it clearer to spot it.
Third example with helicopter:
Well, you are supposed to run from helicopter, no straight forward to its fire. That's why.
This is a very constructive analysis and I agree, but I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion you draw. I think some clear *indication* should be within the player's view - not necessarily the path itself. The latter would severely hamper the expressiveness level designers would have available.
The game consistently teaches you "follow the red"; it even uses it as a gag in one of the elevators ("signs your children are runners: obsession with the color red") but at the moments the player needs it the most they ditch it. For example in the first section in the office 3:28; they could have made the logo something incorporating an arrow, which would then light up red and point towards the exit.
Chase, the second level, is where the game hits something fairly close to a homerun in my opinion; it's simple enough for the player to be able to run through it almost entirely without being interrupted. Some later levels are deliberately slower, but I still think Chase is the best map in the game.
If all you had to do was hold W the whole game it would be braindead. Part of thinking on your feet is also looking around for a faster route and your exit. I did not get stuck on these parts on my first playthrough. It is asinine to say that the player should never have to turn around. There is also literally a button in the game that will point your camera to the next objective so if you get stuck you can just use that without ever losing that much flow.
The problem is the hint button helps with figuring out where to go, but doesn't fix the flow-breaking issue. Catalyst doesn't have a hint button and yet it doesn't need one. That being said, Catalyst was probably a bit dumbed down, but that is another conversation...
@@giannis_tar catalyst literally has a more advanced version of runners vision where it literally shows u right in your face where you're supposed to go. Turned it off immediately lol
"the flow is disrupted and my game is ruined"
@AlCeeProd2.0 use the hint key if youre really too bad to turn around
Thats what makes the game fun...
3:10 i remember this place, took me a minute to find the next section
It seems like this guy didn't play tutorial since jump look behind jump is a move they teach early on.
use the hint key
I am a huge fan of the series and I recently replayed the original ME on PC after completing it countless times on PS3 years ago. I must say, you are absolutely right. I used to think the reviews were extremely hard on the game back then (and I still think so, but to a lesser degree), but now that I'm older (and a little more spoiled) I noticed way more game design flaws than I did back then. The problem with the original game is that the flow breaks too easily on the first playthrough, it relies a lot on trial and error, and you lose momentum way too easily in general. That being said, Catalyst massively improved those aspects, and yet it was still ripped apart by reviews. In any case, I think both games are a solid 8/10.
Can you make a tutorial where you build a mirrors edge inspired small hallway/environment with same nice red GI etc
I've been thinking about this same idea for a bit. I might.
Yea I personally was attempting to do one ( I am mainly a 3D hard surface prop/weapon artist) but I am struggling with UE4 lighting concepts which I am trying to learn. Would love you to attempt one. Of course it doesnt have to be massive but maybe just a mirrors edge feel to it. I was doing a simple one with some pipes on the top etc haha
I understand your point of view, but if all the escape routes were extremely easy to see, it wouldn't make the chases more challenging, I think that mirrors edge brought some of the immersion that a person in real life would have when being chased, There would be no red line indicating where to go, you would simply have to use a little more of your brain to draw a new path or decipher where to go like a puzzle.
Some of the issues also might’ve had to do with mirrors edge being designed for mouse and keyboard. With a mouse you tend to look around more instead of keeping at the same level.
K, I dont think what this video said were really issues especially with the hint key existing but this game was super not made for Mouse and keyboard. The game was released on console first and then ported over.
Wait until you reach the red room after the yellow column at the docks
I had the exact same issues. Now, I get disrupting the flow is a commen comment here, but this game is all about speed. its basically a walking simulator, but faster. sure there are times where they had known that this would happen, thus they blocked it, but in other cases, giving a false way, was probably a watcha gonna do now moment, even if unintended. I still thin that, despite these small "flaws", the game is still a excelent case study on direction, flow and telling a story, with doing nothing literary walking, even if the walking is very fast :D
I agree. It is still a great game and in the next 2 tutorials in this "Mirror's Edge" series I show you what I've learned about level design despite some issues as in this video.
there is a hint key. It tells you where to go. how do you ever get stuck
@@sebseb9890 People do not want use hint.
@@spiderh it's not like it's a puzzle. It just turns your camera in the general direction you have to run
I thought I was the only one who thought that this game has bad game design, level design in this game is quite all over the place. Not only the level design but the amount of bugs that ruin the flow of the game like not rolling, not grabbing onto a ledge when the players wants to. All these types of bugs ruined the game for me.
One thing you missed in this video is that when the player goes the wrong way the game denies actions like grabbing onto the ledge which leads to the frustration. The game doesn't encourage the player to look for another option. Maybe another thing is when you are out in the open the lights are so bright that its hard to see much on screen, or on buildings most of the texture is masked by a ginormous mask of light.
The most annoying level for me was when you get out of the sewers, guards attack you and you disarm them. Where do I go from there? Climb on top of a truck and jump over the fence to see a red door to access. This door is almost completely hidden by the fact that this area is way too big than it needs to be. I have also noticed that this game has a serious problem with adding checkpoints in hard moments and in general a lack of checkpoints overall.
Good points. Yeah I agree.
The Atrium climb level was the most frustrating for me. The amount of times I fell thinking I should be able to make this jump and grab onto that ledge. Even after completing multiple times, I dread playing through it.
if you get stuck there is a hint key my guy.
is it a feature or mistake :D
Well observed :)
Huh. I mean if they told me more clearly that the right way to go is behind me than it might have been fine. After all, there is a specific button for “quick turn” and there’s also a button to point you the right direction. If they had made it more obvious maybe it would have worked better
I don't see anything bad with interrupting the flow, otherwise it would a completely brainless activity
I died so many times in the game because of that but i know the intention, it would be too easy, but i got lost so many times
Your suggestion is overfixing it and creating new problems.
The game couldn't be allowed to be over in 2 hours on the first playthrough, being a high budget full price game. These places where you have to look around and might die a couple times help stretch out the game to the 10 hours that it normally takes on first run. Yes it's artificial padding of sorts and you shouldn't go overboard with that, but it plays well with other design decisions in the game.
The game is also designed for Xbox360 which is a problem with very very slow disk compared to the amount of data that needs to be ingested for rendering, so it has to regularly deliberately halt you to let data load in.
These are the game's type of high pressure puzzles. They can't be too complex, or it would get frustrating or outright impossible for many players during the chase sequences, but they can't just be as simple as running where your nose is pointing. It gives you a little scare when you don't know where to go for a second, heightening tension, but it's also not too frustrating. Flow isn't the only key attraction of ME, another one is a palpable sense of danger, using horror elements. Note also the falling animation/sound and how some NPCs and setpiece events assault you, horror elements.
And finally this makes the world feel less artificial. Because often times the games make the mistake that the world too obviously exists only around the player and for the player, and having to go the other way, getting lost, counters that perception, the world gains more of a character of its own. This is what counterweighs the artificiality of padding and makes this a sensible design choice.
Welcome back
Yes, this is cheap difficulty. Game developers usually do not be effort for real difficulty, rather than use cheap and boring difficulty methods. I saw this mostly in Dark Souls games, especially Dark Souls 2.
Awesome
I am live on twitch speedrun xbox one mirror's edge the first Part, sry for my own advertising..
If you're interested i'd like to invite you into our MIrror's Edge modding discord, PM me if you want it.
Did you get a response?
@@MirrorsEdgeGamer01 xd
I'm sorry, but if you don't know where to go it is your problem. Not bad game design. The ways are obvious and they never broke momentum. Plus, your whole argumentation falls like a house of cards if you include the ingame feature where Faith looks in the direction where you have to go if being in doubt. Seems like someone here was lazy while playing and not willing to think for a moment.
I agree. People are like water
funny think i got stuck exactly at the same spot
theres a hint key
I could never get pass the Russian 😭😭😭
with runner vision it is easy
when he trows you out and runs into you the pipe lights up red and you need to press right mouse button to disarm him
Was that a typo? What do you mean Russian?
@@Z64bit no idea 4 years later XD
@@ramenish think I got passed it eventually good tip if I ever revisit the game thx ✌️
I don't agree
Fair enough.
Then you will definitely not agree with the next 2 tutorials in the series.
this guy doesn't know what the bind for quickturning is
or the hint key
You people just want game to easy