NARRATE vs. DRAMATIZE (magical writing fix!!!)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2024
- In your writing, when should you narrate vs. dramatize? What's the difference? Why does it matter?
I'm talking about these two modes of storytelling, both of which are important, but if you've got too much of one and not enough of another, it may represent an issue in your writing. Or, simply understanding when to use one over another will help you to level up your writing.
To clarify, narrate vs. dramatize isn't the same as tell vs. show, but I think of them as cousins! Narration has a lot in common with telling, and dramatization has a lot in common with showing--and they each have their place!
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i definitely over-narrate in my first drafts. my second drafts involve a looooooot of unpacking and dramatizing XD
Same here! XD
SAME.
I have the opposite problem😑
i usually try to over-narrate in my first drafts because once I have the story down on paper, I can start finessing the pacing and drama in the rewrite. I just need to get the first draft out of the way before I do anything spicy lol
I may be the odd ball here but I definitely over-dramatize. I have way too many long, dramatic scenes that reallyyyy don't need to be. It almost takes away from the things that really should be dramatized, like eating an apple and the death of a main character definitely don't warrant the same amount of drama hahaha
I'm definitely still learning!
That's definitely me too lol
Sameeeeee
Same. For a while I was just confused because I was like "Well I only have 4 scenes in between this plot point and this plot point so why does it feel incredibly slow-paced?" Until I realized that each scene was like 3000 words
@@iferawhite7661 I'm the opposite. I have five scenes within 3000 words lol. I feel like it's too slow paced and melodramatic when I draw scenes out.
I think that can fall under people thinking long books are somewhat bad to write so they skip out on some really good scenes that can potentially add so much characterization to the story. Basically people claim these parts can be considered "filler" because it doesn't push the story forward. Maybe that would make for a good video. What is filler and fluff and what is actually characterization.
i agree. theres so many interesting character arcs in different mediums that people consider to be filler when its usually an important reveal or getting to know the protagonists reason for lying to themselves etc
i hope she sees your comment.i want to know the difference.
@@KreativeKill you see people say this all the time on Wattpad. You want to turn around and say "it's not filler. I'm introducing my MC's mom. I can't just say her mom is a bitch because that isn't allowing the reader to experience that first hand." I think it's just because people have short attention spans and don't like long books.
I absolutely adore your in-depth craft videos and I beg you to make more of them.
My “0” draft (the first attempt at drafting after my outline is done) is purposely Narration, so I can tell myself the story.
I like the idea of short bursts of flashback as an effective tool.
Thank you for this super helpful video~
thats smart! i should try that. i know there is a famous writer out there that literally has to write his first draft as a story that he is telling his personified typewriter. he'll be like so yeah this really interesting thing happened...
KreativeKill oh yeah, that’s right! Terry Pratchett said that or something similar, I believe.
(Which reminds me...I should try reading some of his books... 😅)
oh man, this is exactly the problem i had in a book i just finished reading. key points like character deaths and tense moments were not dramatized enough. it felt like the narrator just said "he got stabbed" and it felt distant even though i loved this character. it turned an otherwise 5 star book into a 4 star one.
omg, if a character got stabbed, that should be a big part of plot, that would be so offputting to read something like. then {main character's name) died.
i wonder if its ever ok to only narrate death scenes. unless someone is really good at writing and can narrate to show a sense of detachment to the death of the character, maybe like say in f scott fitzgerald novel. i might have said too much uh oh
I've had 2 beta readers cry over my death scene, so I guess I did it right. :-)
I thoroughly over-narrate on the first draft! But I very much enjoy layering in more dramatisation in successive drafts. I'm an outliner, and can't help but wonder if there's a correlation with outliners tending to narrate (because they're used to comprehending the story in summarised formats) and pantsers tending to dramatise (because they experience the scene moment by moment as it happens).
I think you may be on to something. As an outliner, having put so much planning into the overall story and having watched scenes play over and over in my mind, when I finally sit down to actually write I just want to get it all out. And more often than not, that results in too much narration. It's usually after that I realize, "Oh yeah, I should probably SHOW that."
Me too. outliner and then over-narrate. Nice to know I'm not alone.
thats interesting. i never thought of it that way. i do think there are some who outline their scenes based on what characters say to each other, so maybe that would be a plotter who also overdramatizes. like when i think of scenes, its always dialogue, and i forget to think about whats actually going on.
i would be interesting to know what everyone else thinks, cuz it does seem like most people who plot narrate.
KreativeKill that is interesting to hear because im like that too! i plot by having scenes play out in my head and connect those scenes at one point, but theres definitely too much dramatization and not enough explanation going on in my first drafts.
Yup.
I see everything in scenes. I also don't outline. I only know the main characters and overall story with some specific scenes. So my first drafts are almost all dialogue.
Must have something to do with the brain. I wonder if it's rare to find someone who can do both, or if it just comes with experience.
man, i feel like the only person over-dramatazing everything xD a lot of my "editing" process (if you can call it that) is actually to delete useless scenes/dialogues or to narrate them instead of dramatize them :')
I wasn't at that part yet when i commented but i find your advices on correcting over-dramatazing really helpful, thank you! Im a new subscriber and im really happy i found your channel :)
Striking the balance between narrating and dramatizing, and knowing when and why to use which, was one of the biggest struggles I had when I first started writing. This and making sure every scene has a purpose and connects to the larger narrative were two fixes that were game-changers for me.
I think this video helps better illustrate show vs. tell, thank you! I’ve come to think of it this way: I can tell the reader the character is chopping wood or I can ‘show’ the reader HOW the character is chopping wood. It depends what’s needed in the scene.
I'm the weird person who doesn't dramatize enough in first drafts because I'm rushing through it. My second drafts are where I fix a bulk of the narration to dramatize more. #underwriterproblems
Sameee
at least you get it done faster so thats good right? overwriting would keep you from finishing and feeling motivated. idk
@@KreativeKill Good point!
2:17 thank you for this.
A lot of people jump to demonize telling so much, like it's some forbidden form of writing that will destroy the story telling. And this is just not true.
A lot great books use telling a lot and it can be just as engaging.
And example of this is Ray Bradbury.
I love how when he kills his characters he doesn't overdramatize it. He just writes: "Joe was killed." And it really hits you!
I'm currently journeying down the rabbit hole of Alexa Donne videos and I can't stop lol. Another GREAT topic here, especially for those of us just starting out. IMO, to dramatize successfully, you almost have to view yourself as an actor, mentally putting yourself in the shoes of the characters, no matter how likable or evil they may be. As writers, this isn't always easy! It's one thing to narrate that something happened, but quite another to show or dramatize it happening, especially if we can't personally relate. We have to go inside the characters' minds, empathize with them, and experience the scenes from their point of view.
I definitely over tell in my first draft. I do this because for me it's more of an outline of the story in order to get plot, story and characters down. In this stage I find my stories sitting at around 70 - 80k which is great because the second draft is what fleshes out and fluffs up the story. It is in the second draft where I start to highlight the important areas that need a thorough showing and other areas that need some show. I keep doing this until the very final edit where I focus on grammar and spelling.
Oh Alexa, what can I say? I am so guilty of this and am blushing. I totally overnarrate as a pantser. Guilty. But I'm still grateful because it also makes it easier to identify scenes where I need to pull back on in revision. Thanks for this video and the Twitter thread definitely helpful
OMG! I totally over dramatize - but didn’t know how to balance it better! (Fellow pantser) Thank you!!!!!
is this a personal attack?
Of course not :)
😩
Love you Alexa. All your videos have helped me alot.
A video I really needed to watch. My writing group pals have told me I narrate too much.
I really have an issue not so much with over-dramatisation in general, but using multiple scenes to show *one thing* because I don't trust myself to be communicating what I want with one or two scenes instead of like five
I also use narration to power through things I'm not in the mood to write; that way the words act like a placeholder to come back later and unpack when I'm more motivated
I feel way more excited about revision than drafting, so this works for me; the problem is when I don't take advantage of good opportunities to unravel words into scenes
This is interesting! Seems like something you should let happen naturally the first write through and then think about it while revising.
Oh. My. God. This is the exact problem I had been noticing with my first draft as I wrote it. I was overly narrating so much (and overly dramatizing the middle). I knew this was going to be a challenge when it came to revisions but it's great having a name for what my problem was.
Wonderful topic! I tend to dramatize more in my early drafts and need to sprinkle more narration throughout once it's editing time.
Just found your channel yesterday and I'm IN LOVE!! Recently I started writing again and had been running into a lot of issues with tone and over-dramatization. Thank you for posting all these incredible video resources for young-writers and people like me getting back into it
Alexa, I cannot tell you how much I needed this. It helped me so much. Thank you a hundred million times😊
This was amazing and addressed all the confusion I was having now that I'm 5-6 chapters down in my first draft of an epic fantasy novel. So good, thank you!
I've enjoyed your tactic so far, of straight forward and being helpful xx
Congratulations on 18, 000 subs!!! You always have such amazing advice and your videos are so high quality! Thank you!!
This was really helpful! I definitely want to look out for this is my new first draft of a novel I started. Thank you!
Thank you for clarifying this. I was so frustrated trying to incorporate "show don't tell" on my first drafts. Prose and narration come more naturally and dialogue is challenging for me. I now feel liberated to embrace my process!
Ohhhh Alexa I needed this in my life today, thank you!
This was really helpful! Now that you explained the differences, I think it'll really help me in revisions because now I have an idea how to identify where I'm trying to over compensate for too much narrative with giant clumps of dramatization. Thank you!
Nice, nuanced discussion! This is super helpful. I appreciate that you went beyond show vs. tell. I fell into the opposite trap of most people - showing too much when I should have narrated more.
I relate to this. I generally over-narrate, during first/early drafts. Awesome video. 😃
Currently drafting my first novel and definitely narrating a lot. I also tend to write in past tense just because that's how it comes out, and then when revising I change it.
This was super helpful, thank you so much!
Especially helpful video! Thanks again for your sage advice.
I've been going through a deep rivision of my book and having troubles with the first chapter in particular, and been feelling like crap and it's all just horrible, and I think this just lit up what I need to do.
Thank you so much!
Thank you, Alexa! ❤
New subscriber here! I appreciate how you own up to doing these mistakes / give personal experience and examples. I also feel like the info I’ve heard on your channel is different than what I’ve heard so far on other authortube channels! Thank you! 😊
Just did a video about something similar, and suffice it to say, I agree with you 100%. I tend to dramatize everything as well, and end up with first drafts that have word counts in the hundreds of thousands. It forces me to go back and tear things apart to figure out where I'm over doing it, but I sure know everything there is to know about every aspect of my book by the time I'm done revising!
I often tend to overly dramatize my chapters. I've kinda improved, but reading the first chapters of my novel gives me chills all the way, haha. At some point they sound a bit awkward, but for the first draft, I think it's okay. I want to correct the whole novel (once I'm done) anyway, because I am a pantser, whose story turned out a lot differently than ever imagined. 😅
Pornesian Parrapio dude love your name lol
Can you do a video about writing “you know when” kind of asides like for example “you know when your reading a book for the first time and everything is exciting and new? Thats how this love feels” something like that, specifically talking to the reader as “you”. I’m not sure what it’s called, that’s the only way I can think to describe it. Love your videos! Thanks!
Time to work through my draft and distinguish between narration and dramatization!
I have done several writings myself. Here’s what I learned from the experience. Story is different from an essay: I’d rather make the buns bigger than the meat.
Make the setup better, and make the ending better. Those are the “quiet moments”. And that’s where we get to unpack stuff like character studies, exposition, and worldbuilding. The rest can be rushed through and there’s no problem in doing it.
Outlining and scripting scenes/dialogue really helps me not over-narrate in the first draft. I basically get the narration bug out of my system in the outline, and from there I know what needs to be dramatized and what doesn't. Just a bit of helpful advice to those who are struggling!
Oh kismet! This is exactly what I am going through on my first novel. I am about 3/4 finished and finally realized how to correct a problem of the way I was telling flashbacks...so now revising those passages into a more dramatic narrative involving other characters...much tighter, more tense, flows much better.
WRITE on time. Thank you.
Brilliant! really helpful.
Great advice, thanks.
This was so helpful! I think I fall on the over-narrate side of things unfortunately.
This was helpful. Do both and review the scenes.
Illuminating!
I love this. There definitely needs to be a healthy balance. I once read a book where most of it was dialogue where one character said paragraphs of shit to the other one and the other would just reply with a sentence. I never got to finish it because it irked me so bad.
Hey Alexa!! ^^ I'm not sure if you've already talked about this subject before, but it would be great if you cover the topics of writing in 1st, 3rd person, etc. Thx in advance!! Your videos are really miracles given from Heaven 😂
There's a Writing with Jenna Moreci vid on this subject. It's quite new. An Alexa one would help too though.
I'm having some fun with my current WIP having narration and dramatization conflict as the POV character doesn't see their own flaws.
Not related to the content in any way, but that red lipstick is EVERYTHING.
I only over-dramatize on things that the main character (or whatever character the POV shifts to) is focusing on the most. Say, they’re in the middle of a conversation they don’t care about and find something interested to look at like a magazine or an important plot device. I’m gonna take the focus away from what they’re not focusing on and put it more on what they’re looking at now. It helps the reader feel immersed, or at least that’s the effect I’m going for
Nice video! And I know for a fact, I am definitely an over-dramatizer!
My book is quite introspective and character focused so I definitely provide way too much narration. Then, if I ever do a little bit of showing, I constantly second-guess myself as to whether it’s horribly melodramatic.
I'm a pantser too. I'm not alone! I do almost all dialogue/drama when I write my first draft. Dialogue is easier for me than narration, it also helps me to figure out more of my character. I see things in scenes.
I find it interesting that you say dramatizing is dragging the pacing more than narrating. I always thought it was the opposite
I guess you shouldn't say "show don't tell", but rather "don't tell what would be better to show".
Yes! Make More videos like this
[anxiously read WIP back to back looking for narration]
i definitely enjoy writing out interactions between characters rather than just saying whats going on in the scene. everyone says show dont tell and thats it. if that was always the case, we would be reading 1000 page novels all the time.
seriously, i want to dramatize less. i always want to be known as writer and also have something to show for it. which is more important, i can't tell
terrible joke
At least I know that in my constant revisions, the almost "real time" pacing of writing out full scenes has a payoff. Maybe it's my style? I do want to "build suspense" so is it ok to slow-burn build it with more showing than telling?
This is the first time I've heard of this.
Show vs Tell is unhelpful. Narrate vs Dramatize is great, but also the idea of Abstract (a wet dog) vs Concrete (a poodle splashed in a puddle) helps to further understand the show vs tell conundrum. (With the addition that the writer earns the use of abstractions after building on a solid base of concreteness, like a pyramid.)
I feel like Narrate vs Dramatize is a more macro perspective and Abstract vs Concrete is a more micro perspective.
My betas (I'm lucky to know some excellent ones) always pick up any 'telly' bits that I've missed and point them out, so they usually get cleaned up in the third draft. I'm an outliner, and I think that can actually work against the story in the first couple of drafts, because outlines rely on connecting key events, kind of like a storyboard. Getting from A to B to C can easily become mechanical when you know what's going to happen. After all those problems are ironed out in later drafts, the story always benefits from what it otherwise would have been though, for me at least. I know a lot of pantsers who get where they're going in style using easier methods, but if I don't outline I lose track and soon realise I'm not in Kansas anymore. 'Telling' in early drafts is usually just me telling the story to myself. Everything that doesn't work gets re-written to show in later drafts.
I used to narrate too much, I'd thought I reached a balance, but now I might be dramatizing too much. In short, I need a couple of revisions to get there😅
Whenever I feel like there isn't enough dramatic moments, I go over scenes and look for narration. So if a character says something happened and it doesn't build any tension, I exclude that information and insert it again in form of a small scene or happening.
I actually tend to dramatize more than narrate, sometimes I think I dramatize to much to grab the readers attention when it’s not really needed
YES... Thanks! Great video for helping me (us) who struggle with dragging our middles down.
It might be nice to find (figure?) what remedies are for those of us still dragging our asses. ;o)
Hey, Alexa - I love these videos on writing craft; Quick Question: You describe 'Narrate vs Dramatise' & 'Show, don't Tell' as cousins, rather than the same thing - my question is, how do you differentiate between 'Dramatisation' & 'Filler'?
Hey Alexa I was hoping to get your opinion on something writing related. I've written since I was little and had always wanted to be a writer but due to my equal love of art and games I've decided to go into game design. One type of game I'm going to be producing is inspired by things like Goosebumps or other Choose Your Own Adventure novels. Essentially what I'd be doing is making a written text story on a game-making engine so it'd be much more streamlined than the old Goosebump novels ever were. Your decisions would change and mold the story and there'd be multiple possible endings you could get. It'd essentially look like an e-book format kinda idea but at certain points you'd get to pick what to do for crucial moments which would lead you down different branching parts of the story. As a much more experienced writer, do you think there'd be a market for such a thing? I'm just curious to see your view on it as someone who's dealt so much in the traditional publishing world. (To clarify I wouldn't be attempting to publish with an actual traditional publisher. It'd probably be released on Steam or a different game platform. I just want to know what the general opinion is on this concept out there and if you've seen it done before and if it was done well) I just see games and novels combining to be the natural evolution of novels. Who hasn't read a novel and wished they could influence the events? Thank you so much if you reply, I've really been enjoying your videos, you're one of my fav writing-related people on TH-cam. Even if you don't reply, I hope you're doing well and look forward to your next video.
I tend to overdramatize to the point where I might as well write a play
I think 1st drafts are often over narrated, because the writer is telling themselves the story.
In the 2nd, etc drafts are when you make the story real.
My book started off as 300-500 words of narration and then I went back and started developing ideas and throwing in a little dialogue and now it's around 4000+ words. Progress.
I'm emotionally constipated so it's pretty hard for me to make things more dramatic and vivid. I just have an apathetic point of view on life so I definitely over-narrate and I still don't know how to fix it lol
C. Leana Same here. Hard to dramatize when it is foreign to my own behavior.
This is where critique partners would come in handy for you. Since the bulk of them should also be writers or heavy readers, they can give you feedback and suggestions in areas that prove to be your weak spots.
My main characters surprising love interest has a secret that the main character doesn't know. His deep feelings for her and some of the things that keyed him into knowing that he has other feelings that he doesn't know what they are (his words, lol) tie into his "flaw". I can't think of a way to dramatize it. It would make the beginning too long and its long enough. It serves as a baseline for why the inciting act between them comes to be. Is that ok? Or should I dramatize it more
Is there a time and place to info dump back storry in narration. Maybe the character was caught doing something and has to explain theirselves.
I need to show more than tell
I tend to over-dramatize and I blame fanfic. I LOVE fanfic but it seems like heavy doses of dramatization are really prevalent. It's something I have gotten used to reading and writing and, I have to tone down a little now that I'm writing an original novel.
SAVE THE CAT. Do you recommend the whole series?
I'm still not clear on your distinction. Is dramatization vs narration a subset/particular application of show vs tell?
I'm starting to think of it as telling/narration = a passageway, and showing/dramatization = a room.
With this in mind, I think you could get a lot of mileage with characters doing narration in their dialogue.
I feel like I rely too heavily on narration, but on the other hand, because of that I think I overuse dramatization on my first draft haha
Are we co-writing a book? xD
Min 1:50
Min 2:20
Yeah, I find I dramatize too much and kind of divulge from the main point at times
I'm so annoying, I keep dropping requests on random videos of yours, but I'd love it if you uploaded a video on the ideal chapter length. You have an amazing one already on book length (totally agree with all the great advice given there) but I feel like chapter length isn't discussed as often and it's something a lot of writers wonder about secretly.
I'm a little late to the party, and hopefully Alexa wouldn't mind me answering one of her comments, but I've seen this question frequently for many years. Also, I'm going to add in some extra info for anyone who might need it.
The short answer for commercial fiction is about ten pages per chapter. Sure, they can be a little longer or a whole lot shorter, but a good rule of thumb is about ten pages. This brings up a more important piece of info, though.
A work of literary fiction might utilize ten chapters for a five hundred page book, while a commercial fiction may have twenty, thirty... fifty chapters! It all depends on your story, and breaking up chunks of it with a natural flow. Some people say, "What if I don't have any chapters, is that ok?", and the answer is yes and no. Yes, because chapters -- or lack thereof -- won't make or break a good story, good writing, and true talent. Conversely, if the writer finds that they're struggling to utilize something as simple as chapters, that may indicate a bigger problem, either with the story or the skill of the author.
What's really important is that you know where to break, and you recognize that there is a structure for chapters. You shouldn't be aiming to just cut the text off in one spot and resume it in another; you should break with purpose and entice your reader to keep turning pages.
I show too much instead of tell >.< keep being told to add narration
In other words: Explain or Provoke.
I think I have like 0 % narration in my books. Everything is done dialogue if there is need to. I have so much trouble filling my books with words that I cant afford narration :D
🤔🤔🤔 Apologies, I'll work harder to be better this year 4:35
Hi, my fellow nerds!
Dostoyevsky introduces characters with narration all the time. Otherwise I guess he would need two thousand pages instead of one thousand. 😂
5:40
Chuckles - Show me an emo that can effectively show how hard done by they are, without it being their own fault. "Ohh my parents don't get me, and..." The emo song, stabby rip stab stab...
You know what, this moment here, requires the watching of Face Off.
Csn we do away with that dumb word Pantser? Can we come up with something else? Somebody? Please?