American Reacts to British Social Structure
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- We embark on a quest to understand the nuances and quirks of the British class system. From the aristocracy to the underclass, this exploration promises to be both educational and entertaining. The video will include fascinating tidbits of British history, highlighting the evolution of social class over the centuries. We'll examine the impact of industrialization, the legacy of the British Empire, and how these factors continue to influence British society today.
Whether you're British and want to see an outsider's perspective or you're from another part of the world curious about British class dynamics, this video promises to be an enlightening and enjoyable experience. So, don't forget to hit that subscribe button, like, and share as we embark on this cross-cultural adventure! 🌍🎉
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I don't think an American could ever understand the British class system but any Brit knows it intuitively.
Very true. Maybe not everybody but many and not usually consciously add up the clues to work out where a new acquaintance sits in this class framework. Anyone who does not may be lacking in empathy and liable to make a lot of faux pas in conversation. Most people look for common ground so there is likely to be little point in discussing huntin', shootin' and fishin' with someone born and brought up on a "sink" council estate (that's an extreme case, of course).
Whilst you can change , or mimic accents you can't change social outlook or opinions overnight . I think you only feel comfortable with your own .
100% correct
I think the american equivalent of lower class would be someone claiming that the south will rise again.
In Britain your class is defined by what you wear, how you wear it, how you speak, where you live, where you shop, what you eat, where your children go to school, what your childrens names are, where you work, what you work as, what your parents do, how you behave, what your hobbies are.... its interwoven into EVERYTHING!!!
Most importantly it's about what kind of hat you wear. Flatcaps used to be worn by the lower class but they have drifted up to twat level. Bowler hats used to be worn by the middle class but they have disappeared and been replaced by baseball caps. Top hats used to be worn by the upper class but now are only worn sometimes for weddings. Now scum wear hoods even if it is not raining and even if they are in a car, the average hat is a baseball cap or beanie in the winter and the upper class wear ridiculous trilbies or flatcaps or hair transplants.
@@juskahusk2247twat level 😂
@@juskahusk2247you clearly dont spend much time in the countryside if you think flatcaps are upper class only - here every class wears them especially if you work an outdoors job, farmer, groundsman etc, can speak as one surrounded by many - so sorry to burst your bubble on that one
@@majorclanger8857 the ghetto is a f🤬g nightmare! Please let me live in your Arcadian utopia. I'll do anything, Pig Fluffer, Goat Stimulator, Traction Beam Car Driver, Manure Man ANYTHING!
I’d disagree with a fair bit of this. I used to live in west London in a upper ground floor flat. Below me was a married couple in their early thirties with a baby girl. Lovely couple, husband and I would have a drink at the pub next door from time to time. Absolutely bang average people in terms of accent, clothes, manner - everything.
Then one day, a letter for the husband mistakenly gets delivered to my apartment. I look at the address on the front and it says “To: The Hon Edward….”.
I look at it quizzically. Why would he have “the honourable” as a title - he clearly isn’t an MP current or former. Then I look him up on google. Turns out he is the second son of a prominent Earl. His older brother has “Lord” as a title.
Anyway, long way of saying that I don’t think the class divide is inherently noticeable from outward appearance anymore. You can have thoroughly working class people with immense wealth who will be fancier than a prince and equally you can have the epitome of landed gentry who clean the windows of their apartment on a busy west London street wearing nothing but boxer shorts.
The King was open about changing his name. He made it clear that he was doing so because he served the UK, not Germany. The people were delighted. Bear in mind, no King has needed to deceive us. Kings are not Presidents or politicians.
Also, it was done at exactly the same time as the removal of princely titles from the more remote branches of the royal family, some of whom were German. A small number even had their princely and ducal titles explicitly removed because they were in the German armed forces e.g. the Duke of Cumberland (descendant of Queen Victoria's uncle) and the Duke of Albany (her son, Prince Leopold's son). Those steps will have been popular too. George V's rules for who is allowed be a prince or princess are still in use today.
Wasn't World War 1 fought by two countries headed by Queen Victoria's grandchildren ? Her married name came from the fact that she married a German.
You don't need to ask questions. You will know what class someone comes from within minutes of meeting them.
Money and Class are different things. You can be a millionaire plumber or a duke without two brass farthings to rub together.
100% correct
How could you be a " millionaire plumber " if you had no money ??
@@kimbirch1202 The UK has a lot of wealthy plumbers.
@@kimbirch1202 they insist on being paid in cash and give it straight to their wives to do the shopping without declaring it as income, therefore avoiding paying tax. My plumber is much richer than me and I'm middle class. He's not a millionaire but he lives like a millionaire.
That's true, it costs a fortune to maintain an old castle, or stately home, which is why many of the " nobility " chose to allow visitors, via the National Trust, so they could carry on living there rent free.
The class system is complicated and almost impossible to explain. My grandma (born a Lady as the daughter of an Earl, later became a Viscountess when she married the eldest son of an Earl), explained it this way: working class people have secondhand furniture, middle class people buy new furniture - sometimes on hire purchase, upper class, aristocracy and ruling classes inherit their furniture.
This is the most concise explanation I’ve ever heard.
Great way to put it.
Michael Heseltine, a leading Conservative politician before, during and after Thatcher, although he had been a Guards officer and had accumulated a business fortune was allegedly described by fellow senior Conservatives as ‘the sort of fellow who buys his furniture’, that is that he was not of that stratum of society which inherits priceless heirlooms, including furniture. It was the same as the old tendency of curling one’s lip and saying ‘Of course, the fellow’s in trade!’
@@johnkemp8904 gosh, that's very snobbish. I'm reminded of Boris Johnson's wife insisting Number 10 be redecorated (with the £840 per roll wallpaper and furniture recovered to match), because it was "a symphony of John Lewis" after Theresa May. The unbridled elitism is extraordinary.
What isn't made clear here is that Anglo-Saxon English as spoken after the Norman conquest actually absorbed and adapted many French words which remain in common use today.
And viking words in the 250 years before.
I assume that's the transition from Old English to the Middle English of Chaucer which had these French words at the end of the 14th century.
I heard somewhere that the case-endings/declensions and genders in Old English gradually disappeared owing to the adoption of English by the Vikings who were proficient in understanding the basic Anglo-Saxon vocabulary but somewhat confused by the niceties of the grammar. Of course, French also has only two genders and no case endings.
@@MrBulky992 Yes! A linguist after my own heart, I see! ☺👍
Yes, but Norman French tended to get adopted into the higher classes, Saxon-English words often stayed in use among the lower classes. The example I like is how cow (from OE "cū") refers to the animal while beef (from Old French "boef") refers to the food. Peasants raised the animals, but rarely ate the meat. It took centuries for the French-inspired and Germanic-inspired vocabularies to collapse in to a single language.
@@cmlemmus494Well, it took no more than 300 years because the Middle English replacing French at the time of Edward III/Richard II and used by Chaucer had all of that French vocabulary. One assumes it was a gradual process until that point with the scales tipping and English becoming the official language at the point where English was mutually fully comprehensible by all classes. In Middle English, French words were obviously not as anglicised in pronunciation as they are now.
The British will know instinctively which class you fall Into within minutes of meeting someone. It is so ingrained in our society that we aren't even aware that we are able to do this. It is completely instinctual.
Money is considered crude in the UK. And in the US, you could leave town and reinvent yourself in an entirely different part of the country. You cannot do that in the UK with its relative confinement, you cannot escape class. Tradition sanitises the crudeness of money, so titles and honours count for a lot in social standing than just money alone. This is how the nouveau riche were tamed by the aristocracy
Re. The social structure in Britain has nothing to do with money. In fact New Money is regarded as rather vulgar.
William The Conqueror wasn't his knickname during his lifetime, this would be William The B*stard.
Doctors and Lawyers are middle class because they have full-time jobs. The upper classes generally don't have (or didn't have) full time roles - male aristocrats were instead owners of companies, investors in stock markets (managed by a professional stockbroker), or men and women were Presidents of charities where they did a few hours to help out with functions or appearing to make speeches etc. Women also married other aristocratic men, that was their role, to produce heirs for the estate.
That’s both old and new money upper classes. Which the video didn’t taken about- super rich is different to the upper middle class.
This is quite a divisive subject. You might get some spicy comments. Ignore them, you keep on doing you. I, for one, really enjoy your take on things.
Spicy is good
As someone who grew up in the States but has lived my entire adult life (more than half my life now) in the UK. the British class system has been one of the most singular things to get my head around. I don't dare to offer much in the way of commentary for fear of embarrasing myself, but I will say this: the gulf between middle class and working class is way more important than any American could ever understand. I have friends in both camps and it always amazes me how much this informs their personalities. Many of my working class friends are immediately suspicious and often somewhat disadainful of middle class people, and many of my middle class friends form their peer group around university friends, who also tend to be middle class. So the American ideal of mobility doesn't really work in part because people reject it. There's social and economic mobility, but class is often something Brits wear as a badge of honour. The more you can get your head round the class system, the more you realise how much it is referenced everywhere across British culture. Lots of the British culture I loved growing up in the States sounds completely different to me now as I've developed a better (though still imperfect) sense of the underlying references, with class chief amongst them.
A less dry, more interesting commentary on this than the video here would be the artist Grayson Perry's 3 part documentary "All in the Best Possible Taste" which devotes one episode to the working class, one to the middle class, and one to the aristocracy and is absolutely fascinating and very insightful.
I suppose I could work on my accent, but I still think I’d come across as someone from Wigan.
Me too 😂
I'm working class, I'm proud of it.
It's us that does the work that makes the country wealthy.
I served in the Army many years ago, I met some of those upper classes, the landed gentry, and they were always easier to talk to than the upper middle class who seemed to think because they had more than you they were better.
I'm a taxi driver now.
It's surprising how many people think they are better than you because they run some office somewhere.
I've also had compliments on the intellectual conversations I've had. Such as, "I didn't expect to have so interesting a conversation with a Taxi driver."
That's what we call a backhanded compliment.
I've always worked on the idea that I'm no better than anyone, and nobody is better than me, except the King/Queen.
I once served them and the country.
A small number of aristocratic families still own and control millions of acres of land across England that has been in their families since shortly after the Norman conquest. This is the basis of the massive wealth of a small section of the population. Portugal remains on historically friendly terms with the UK to the present day. They were neutral during WW2 but always tilted diplomatically to the Allies.
I do think this is way more blurred than this guy is letting on. Most people I am aware of don’t care where you come from or what job you do or how much money you have, your personality and how you come across is what matters
Absolutely agree!
Its a massive over-exaggeration of classes. In the Home Counties ( the ring of counties N S and W of London) where I have lived all of my 60 years, you rarely see this.... and this is living within 3 miles of Windsor and Eton most of my life and playing football and rugby against schools against Eton teams when I was younger.
@@mauk2861 A lot of what was said on the video made my blood boil. The idea that location typifies the class you are in - as if he was suggesting - go to the Midlands if you want to be lower-middle class. No notion of opportunities being taken away because higher status jobs were being re-located into London. It reminded me of a programme about London that said 'London's always attracted the brightest and the best.' I suppose the rest of us are just dullards because we wanted to take care our family responsibilities.
Questioning the monarch goes right back to the magna carta in 1215 where the barons forced king john to give up absolute authority over them.
What changed with the civil war is the form of the question. Between magna carta and the civil war the monarchy's right to rule was not in question only the validity of the person on the throne's decisions. With the civil war the entire validity of the throne itself was called into question.
Personally, I don't think class is quite as important as it was even 30 years ago in the UK. It's still there and some people actively seek to be defined by it. Money in many ways is separate from class. You can be rich yet still working class. Many upper class families can't afford to support their historic estates.
The noble titles go way back. Duke comes from an very Latin old word for general. It was a title given to a military leader and his heirs who helped the king. Marquess is from French a noble who has territory adjoining a foreign country (a march), Earl comes from the Germanic/Norse word Jarl meaning "steward or governor", Viscount is the "assistant of someone who rules a county", Baron is Norman french meaning a generic nobleman.
Never had to talk to someone directly about their class to know almost immediately. I know that the ppl i work with are working class, whereas i am from the 'middle' middle class as it were and they know that about me without asking. Our life experiences are totally different and it shows
My family are working class my husband's people are middle-class. My mother-in-law showed me the difference between my use of English and hers plus table settings, clothes etc most by my observing her. I had already had to modify my accent to get a job. So the words you use can give another clue to your beginnings. Toilet instead of lavatory or loo, serviette instead of napkin would place you as working class. I would say class mobility was greater during the 1980s than it is now. Certainly I had no problems fitting in and being accepted in the professions despite my appalling education. It was much easier as I didn't need a university degree although that profession does now. There were other routes to qualify. My daughter and I laugh as my daughter's in-laws think she is posh and apparently we both wear 'middle-class ' scarves!
Delighted that they included a fairly respectful aside about the significance of us Irish in British society. The Beatles being a great example. This continues today, with e.g. Graham Norton being embraced by (and - ahem - often wrongfully claimed by [what's new]) the English. And Terry Wogan a few years ago.
You can tell if you are middle class or working class by two things: if your tv is wider than your bookcase is tall, you are working class, and if you have a tall bookcase with books on it, then you are middle class.
It's become a bit silly really here (admittedly I'm in N Ireland where, although we have the last vestige of the British aristocracy, it's nowhere near as rigid as in Britain). I recently heard a radio discussion about what defines being "middle class", and the spokesman insisted it was "owning a mug-tree" (the thing in your kitchen for hanging mugs on). Also, you got an automatic like from me for your Oasis-ripping-off-The Beatles comment :p
Lol a mug tree, sounds like someone with no money trying to claim they're middle class. A mug tree probably just means you don't have enough room in your kitchen because it's small. Lower middle class or working class most likely.
I find of all these many film clips on you tube of Americans reacting . by by far the best is JJLA. He is the charming , intelegent and has a great voice.
I had it hammered into me - You can marry outside, Race, Creed, Religion etc - BUT - NEVER Outside your Class!
The aristocracy are mainly descendants of the Norman knights who supported the king, and who were given lands in payment for their loyalty. Some of these have since lost their estates but still have the hereditary titles. Social mobility has expanded slowly, the wives of our current and next king come from upper middle class and middle/working class backgrounds respectively, Catherine’s ancestors on her mother’s side were coal miners. This would have been unthinkable even 50 years ago. It is also happening in other European monarchies.
Outside of Royalty...most of modern British class-systems are based on land ownership. (Not that the Royal Family don't own significant land.)
You could be a self-made millionaire in England but you would still not be upper class. Upper class people can have considerably less money in the bank but have a "good" family name and a huge amount of land they can't really work.
As an American myself it is so interesting to see how well respected the working-class are. The emphasis seems to be less on personal wealth but the fabric of the people, manners and goodwill.
Moral capital is very important as well as cultural capital , economoic capital and soical capital.
The content of ones character. The sort of thing martin luther king was talking about.
The class thing is overstated - social mobility is actually pretty good in Britain but only a very few can be landed gentry. Attitude and parenting are the key differentiator. As someone raised by solid parents on a working class council estate I’ve done just fine thanks because I have good manners, a strong work ethic and did well at school.
Have you ever watched "My Fair Lady"? It shows a perfect example of accent and speech effecting social status, made in 1964 but based in Victorian era London its one worth watching if you havent yet seen it.
I must admit that I flinched rather at the total lack of understanding of the British when he asked whether the British people ‘saw through’ George V renaming of the Royal house. It was wartime, Germany was the enemy, and the monarch took a step which would be overwhelmingly popular. There is no way on earth that this could be kept quiet or undertaken as an underhand piece of sleight of hand.
One correction: the royal family are not state funded. Their money is managed by the state, but is their own.
We have plenty of museums. We have no need for them to give up their homes.
Plus from the Royal estates they give back to the country about £300 million each year.
Not so.
They have huge private incomes made from their vast estates, and they also receive taxpayer funding for their expenses.
I was about to say the same thing. I'm sure we have more museums than any other country. Plus we have many National Trust stately homes we can visit. We have enough of that stuff already.
False.
All the land owned by the monarchy was originally stolen from us, by the Norman barons, and made the Queen one of the richest persons in the world.
Yet, despite their huge income ,from this stolen land, we are supposed to fund their lavish expenses, and maintain their many palaces.
Their money is NOT managed by the State.
They are free to buy as many jewels and antiques, as they like.
Also Batenberg changed his name to Mountbatten, as they are now known. But our Belgian royals remained Saksen Cobourg.
I really enjoyed this video and the comparisons that you made with the USA. In my little village an Aristocratic family lives in a Manor House. They can trace their history to the Norman Invasion.
As George orwell said in book Animal Farm," all people are equal, some people are more equal than others". Or as my mother said, "As long as you have to work you're working class whatever your title"
Shift from mercantilism (wealth derived from land, resources and accumulated bullion) to capitalism (wealth derived from finance, trade and shared trust) is one of the most history-shaping developments that defines the global economy today
Even Cinderella was meant to marry a
Handsome Prince to raise her family's social status.
There 's a saying "money cannot buy class". That is a big difference between American and English culture - money seen as vulgar, and higher standing in class being about blood lines and "breeding". As for the accent - now you understand scene in "My Fair Lady" - where she is taught how to say "the rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain", in order to become "a lady".
I would have thought people would have liked the fact the royals had changed their name and that it sounded less German and it would highlight how the royals were firmly against the Germans as well in that age?
Yes, and they relinquished any remaining German titles they had at the same time, and stripped German nobles of their British titles at the same time (mainly grandchilden of Queen Victoria).
This is a very complex look at Class in UK. I don't think ppl are bothered these days about class, and the ones owning the inherited big palatial homes have to work on bringing money in to keep these "listed" buildings looking pristine. Looks like we're all working class, in different ways
My 27th great grandfather, a Knight, came over with Wm the Conq.. Adam de la Lane, the family then eventually became the Lanes dropping the french part but were still Norman/Saxon aristocracy for a long time. Later on a lot of my relatives in 1800s came from all over the country for jobs and therefore I was born in South London, a very popular destination for the working classes... mostly agricultural labourers/tailors and curriers (fur), Tony Blair, Prime Minister, changed his accent to "Mockney" which was disliked by real Londoners. Boris Johnson before becoming Prime Minister lived where I was born,in South London and we were not so well off. So your neighbours in London could be much better of than you.
You may not know that the Norman's were actually Scandanavians. They were given some land by the King of France and settled in northern France. They were not French.
The Norsemen.
However it was the French language they introduced into Britain as an administrative language, not a Norse language. The Norse settlers had long mixed in with the local population and by 1066 spoke a dialect known as Norman French.
@@wolfie854yes and the real English (aks Anglo Saxons) said nah, we are not talking that sissy language.
The normans were Scandinavian about 5 generations before. They were given land and asked to stop raiding and adopt the french ways in exchange for land and money. They were pretty much french at that point.
They were Norse
You are spot on - "Middle class" in the UK means something very different to "Middle class" in the US. One of my American friends says "Middle class just means you mow your lawn"
I always thought I was working class. Turns out I'm lower middle class because I own my own home and worked in an office! My peasant ancestors would be proud of me.
Me too. I’ve just levelled up in status! I’ll go with that 🎉
If you've ever been accepted into a university, you are legally an esquire unless you're something higher.
Quite a few of the lesser royals live on the grounds of the castles and Palaces so that they can be seen by the public or they will live in one wing of the property to keep the historical items protected.
The most important thing affecting the high/low classes wasn't mentioned. In 1215 the Magna Carta was signed, providing the roots of what became the American Constitution. In some parts, the Constitution was lifted verbatim from the Magna Carta.
I love having the royal family. We pay £1.29 each (107.5 million) a year and they bring in 1.76 bn a year. Its just good pageantry and business sense to have them.
Actually, they pay 100% of their estate income in return for the £1.29.
The income from the Royal Estate is paid over to HMG ‘for the common good’ as happens in the accession ceremony and in exchange for that approx 15% of that is used to pay for the office and duties of the Head of State, including the upkeep of national treasures held in trust by the Monarch such as palaces, castles and artwork. That is called the Sovereign Grant. The Monarch does not get paid in a true sense for the work he does. He does, however, have a private income from investments. The heir to the throne is entitled to the income from Duchy of Cornwall to cover his costs and that does not come from the Sovereign Grant.
Hi love your videos. I'm English living in Wales. I am in the common as muck class, and proud of it. Xx
The palaces are historical treasures that will require maintaining anyway out of the public purse, at least with a royal family they have a genuine function
Great reaction, JJLA. Your grasp on a very complex subject within a short time frame is remarkable. You're correct in that money and property will bring you some social mobility, but in a very limited fashion. Lineage, your bloodline, and its age , is really the deciding factor in where you 'stand' in the class Heirarchy. Yes, there are folk who change accent, learn the 'right' places to be, spend on education, and cultural pursuits, but these people, without an actual Lineage, will quickly be indentified as a social climber,.. and are distained both by the Class into which they are trying to insert themselves, and the Class they have abandoned. The only way a social climber can eleate. is to marry someone with an old Title, and even then they themselves will never really be respected, but their children will have some legitimacy with the people of that class.
I myself, am a mixture of Underclass/Working class. With an IQ of 160, a decent qualification, and self taught and educated in Classics, and a fake accent worth of Cumberbatch, I will never be more than what I am, as my Lineage is not illustrious. I actually like being part of the Underclass, (Chavs) as it affords a lot more freedom, no rigid structures, and an existence that is almost under the radar. Many original artists come from the Working/Under/Immigrant classes. Dont let the cut glass perfect received pronunciated accents of Britains top actors fool you, although the upper middle class produces some great writers and actors,.. the artistic, Acting, musical talent of this Country, really lies within the Working/Underclass.
Love your videos, thank you for the entertainment. x
As a young child ,I was taught how to behave in the company of Adults who were not family .
All the things that children do instinctively were not allowed .
No loud voices ,respect other peoples` space (no running about), `please` and `thankyou` ( VERY important), no personal questions .
If you did these things the grownups would think you were `dragged up` and it would reflect badly on your parents, as this was behaviour that lower class people did
Oddly enough ,many of these thing we were taught NOT to do are the kind of things that are held against visiting Americans !!
There are seven official royal residences. Only two of which are owned personally by the royal family, in the person of the monarch.
Balmoral Castle in Scotland and the Sandringham House Estate in Norfolk.
The rest as owned by the Nation.
Many of the royal residences have areas that are open to the public and have guided tours.
Fascinating video
You have good voice for this type of media.
America basically only has working class and middle class. Your president is middle class in Brritish terms.
William the Conquerer was descended from Odo ... he was leader of a band of Vikings who landed in Normandy, liked it and decided to settle ... they quickly gave up their gods and their Viking ways ... they adopted Christianity and adopted trhe local way of doing things ... in the space of 100 years they ruled Normandy and only 100 years after that William conquered England.
Realistically, working class people wont really meet aristocracy or even upper middle classes. You tend to mingle with your own classes or 1 up.
That can change when and if you go to uni, especially if you go to a very prestigious one, 2 of my friends went to Oxford and now have a social circle including much more middle/upper middle class folk. I went to Manchester uni and have some middle class friends, my family is working class but id say now my husband and I are lower middle but we have kept our school friends and live in our hometown so have largely stayed within the working class/some lower middle clase grouping.
Because you tend to live in areas of the same or similar socio economic backgrounds, class doesnt really come up. Unless you occasionally meet someone from another class and then it may do.
My dad used to race cars and he was hired by a very middle class man to basically look after his car, etc as a mechanic and panel beater, so he could just pop along and race it when he wanted to and i found his accent HILARIOUS as a kid. He was so posh and had floppy hair, im from the west midlands and it was so funny to me. Id never heard a really posh voice in person before haha.
This is pretty anecdotal i appreciate, but my experience is that you just grow up around people who can afford similar to what you can, and they generally will be in your class, so it isnt really a topic of conversation
I'd say early enclosures of common land, first of the 1590s and 1600s, prior to the English civil war (see the Midland Uprising of 1607) and then formalised by law - by the legal theft of the Acts of Enclosure - between 1810-20 were pivital in securing the British class-system, economic structure, and curtailing freedoms and autonomy of a rural peasantry, moving them in the wage-slavery, and ultimately into the cities, and whilst securing the positions of the land-owning gentry, who were able to buy, enclosure land and build stupidly big houses, after making a killing from sugar and tea and coffee and then were compensated for "loss of property" upon the abolishion of the British slave trade in 1807. It isn't a coincidence that the abolition of slavery throughout British overseas colonial interests resulted in a lesser but overarching form of enslavement at home.
You can’t be upper class unless you’re an aristocrat, however wealthy you get
They missed the bit where the aristocracy had to marry American heiresses to keep their estates going eg Churchill's father. A lot of large estates got broken up by death duties which has greatly reduced the supply of land to let . Nowadays it's hard to start farming because of the price of land.
Because Oasis might have money, but they've definitely not gained any class (not the Gallagher brothers anyway). It's more behavioural than financial. The working class can make a lot of money though, too many people dismiss some of the more "menial" industries and end up earning less (or struggling to find employment at all) and owing more due to student loans etc.
England had the Magna Carta which was democratic only for the landowning class. You can have democracy and social hierarchy together. The landowning class were not always part of the ruling elite, but were favoured by the ruling elite. This made the landowning class the only group that could challenge the power of the ruling monarch, because they were already in the same social circles
It should also be said the the Magna Carta was a vital document that opened the way for greater democracy. Any of our rights now come from the Magna Carta.
In the accent section its interesting that the narrator singles out Douglas Murray as having a stereotype "plumb-y" upperclass accent. Murray is actually of working class stock, teacher mother and civil servant father. Murray attended a bog standard state school in a working class area of London but he later gained a scholarship to Eton. Murray's accent no doubt changed in the process enough to have the original creator wrongly perceive him as not just upper class but the epitome of upper class.
King Charles’ son Prince William who will be the next King of the UK married Catherine Middleton, a commoner, who comes from a middle class family. Catherine’s mother came from a working class family.
the Middleton's are an Aristocratic family the head of the family's dad is a member of the Lupton family, a well-known political dynasty. they are all multi millionaires with country estates. there is notching middle class about them. everyone is a commoner compared to royalty
We cannot say "he will be", only that he's first in line (heir apparent) and no one can jump ahead of him unless his father abdicates.
The current aristocracy are in a rough state. They have these huge ancestral properties 100s of years old that will be protected under heritage law, so they can't make many changes to the property. The huge expense of running a house like that usually means that the house has to be opened to the public to generate an income to keep the house going.
The problem is also in the idea of The State. In Britain, the State starts with the crown etc but in many European countries the state is more about a feeling or observation. Thus governments rise and fall even bringing new ideas, completely new states whereas in the UK the state is first defined by the crown hence elsewhere one is a citizen but in the UK one remains a subject.
The thing is..If I came into money either through 'Selling my product' or I won the lottery, that WOULDNT effect my 'Class' I'm 'Working Class' whatever I achieve, or become. The British Class dosen't really 'Move' at all! 😊
Privateers and Pirates are different, up to 1715 and the Treaty of Utrecht Countries hired ships and their crews to roam the seas and harry their enemies ships, goods, treasure, slaves and even the crew changed hands. These Privateers were given the legal right to carry out these raids and were given Letters of Marque and Reprisal, from the leaders of the country hiring them literally without 'Reprisal'. Francis Drake, Sir Walter Raleigh and William Dampier were Privateers. One added bonus was if a country wanted some ships to be a Navy these Privateers were ideal, good at fighting and knew the sea like the back of their hand they were rewarded for any ships they captured, nothing much different from when they were Privateering. The Treaty of Utrecht outlawed Privateering but they just turned to Piracy, same thing but without permission.
I think whats happening right now is very interesting and worrying. Class and money are becoming more clear cut again, after the lines have been blurry in recent times. I for one grew up in a lower middle class family but because of many reasons, find myself in working class today with very little hope of moving back up.
And by saying that, I just mean that buying a house has become more and more difficult - which growing up as lower middle class, seemed like a plausible goal. I think lower middle class are slipping steadily into working class - not having spare savings for when your car breaks down, etc.
If you do not understand why they showed Oasis when talking about the working class, then you still have a lot to learn about the basics of class in Britain
So sorry , but English history is my go to and understanding our cultural and historical history is what I absolutely love .
I hope this has helped lyn x
I feel like fashion styles also give people good indication of the class you're in.
Don’t forget the “nobless oblige” some still have it. ☺️
Take a look at how the development of the canals created and strengthened the Industrial Revolution.
I worked in an office and my parents owned their own home as i do i, i live in merseyside, i have always thought myself to be working class and proud to be.
The 'nouveau riche" are regarded as less by "old money" standards - you can imagine the horror of Edward the VIII 's abdication ..to marry an American divorcee! (clutch pearls here) The lines are blurring a bit more, yet still - Prince Harry had to leave the Royal Family to live a freer life.
I think the class system in the UK is often overstated. It exists as a set of social claims and identities, but it has relatively little to do with money. While it is hard to move into another social class in terms of identity in the UK, its much easier to improve your position in terms of wealth . You can be a member of the working class here in the UK and have a lot more money than someone from the Upper Middle Class. I think Americans are fed a very skewed idea of class and social mobility in the UK (and in their own country). Social mobility in the UK isn't great in relation to the rest of Western Europe, but it is greater than in the US. (On an international comparison of social mobility , the UK usually comes in at around 21st, while the US comes in at 27th.)
A good way to get an aristocratic title in recent years is to donate a few million pounds to the Conservative Party. There was a big scandal in 1916-1922 over the Liberal prime minister Lloyd George selling titles - there was even a price list, £10,000 for a knighthood, £30,000 for a baronetcy, £50,000+ for a peerage, which was a huge amount of money back then.
JJ your job would make you lower middle-class in the UK.
Working class is basically people who do physical work in the UK. If your job is voice-over/acting, then that's a professional job. My job is working in IT, so I'm also in lower-middle class profession. Doctors/lawyers/managers is the middle-middle class professions really.
Before he retired, my Dad was always in working class professions; barber, publican, car salesman, taxi driver
James l was the first to sell titles- a baronet is a title which comes from this- it was very expensive in the early 17thC a baronetcy cost 1000 guineas- a vast sum.
they talk of Chile while driving through Haslingden
No-one asks about someone else's class. You know. There remain glass ceilings between us ; upper working class and lower middle might meet at work but go home to different areas. There are clubs and hotels and shopping areas /stores they would never meet. Lower middle will probably belong to a Private Dental Surgery whereas upper working class will still seek out NHS Dental Services. All will use NHS Hospital and Doctors first off. But the small differences are the ones that separate not necessarily overt wealth.
An important aspect of class mobility that was glossed over was university education. My dad was a railwayman and our family identified as working class. I went to grammar school and after that to university, the first in my family to do so, because university education was fully funded by the government. I achieved a first class degree in science and went on to obtain a lower doctorate and a higher doctorate. I finished a full professor.
I originally spoke with a thick Lancashire accent. Over the years my accent has ameliorated so now I have a generic northern accent. My cultural interests and financial status place me in the upper middle classes. This trajectory is now more difficult in England because fees for university education were introduced in the 1980s. Classic case of pulling up the drawbridge once your children have achieved social mobility, that said the access to university has increased form 10% of the population to about 50% .
My bad the figure for tertiary education in the UK is 33.8%
Whilst not universally true, especially amongst politicians and trade union leaders, we tend to value people's worth, not their net worth.
The class system can be defined relatively easily. If you need to work for a living, you are working class. That includes millionaire/billionaire business owners that were born poor. If your family gain enough income from assets (historically land rents but now including stocks and businesses) that you have never needed to work from birth, but dont have an aristocratic title, you are middle class. If you have a hereditary title (baronets, barons, viscounts, earls, marquises and dukes) you are upper class. The Royal Family are often lumped in with the upper class, but truthfully are above even them until at least 4 generations removed from the monarch.
Edit: the monarchy is not state funded, that is a commonly held misconception. They actually live off income from the Crown Estate (land ownership) and pay 85% of their profit to the government.
I've used my West country accent to my advantage over the years. When I moved to work in the big cities I soon learnt that the broader my accent the less harder jobs I was given to do. I spent over 30 years just coasting along whilst watching those who had a "better accent" than me struggle to do their work. I took all day to do a job that I could have done in a quarter of the time.
Excellent plan
Doesn’t Kenneth Branagh look young? 😊
I am not snobbish but, I, simply refuse to have anything to do with Chavs, Commoners, or Riff-Raff. I was brought up next to the largest Council Estate(Projects) in Northern Europe but left all those Commoners from Inner London behind in 1983. Now I, socially, only merge with my betters and can, often, be seen doing my cap to them both metaphorically and even tangibly. I know my place, above the Common people but below most others and I am content in that knowledge as I am sure my social superiors will look after me if I get into financial or any other kind of trouble. I mean they will...won't they?.......Anywoo ,I must away as I am in the most fearful rush as I have "8" coming for Supper,ce soir in The Suburbs..
Good Reaction. The video was accurate apart from saying immigration from The Asiatic Subcontinent and the Caribbean was from the 1990s. I witnessed the fact that my, previous 98% White British indigenous area near Brixton (now the most multi-cultural place in The UK) underwent a massive cultural change from the mid-1960s onwards and the first small wave of immigrants came in 1948. I went back to Inner London 2 days ago and from "98%" it is now "10% " so an enormous cultural change. RECOMMENDATIONS JJ: "Last Night Of The Proms 2012" an annual series of musical Concerts over 4 months ending with an "Annual "Last Night" Members Of Parliament Question Time TOTALLY DIFFERENT from The Senate and the film "SNATCH" starring Johnny Depp and VERY British, especially London.
The monarch holds only only two official titles and an additional one in the Channel Islands:-
1. King and/or Queen.
2. Duke of Lancaster. This title applies whether the monarch is a King or Queen.
3. Duke of Normandy. This is an obscure hangover from centuries ago and only covers the Channel Islands.
Some titles of other members of the royal family are automatic, others are conferred by the monarch at their discretion.
1. Prince and Princess.
Children and grandchildren of a reigning monarch.
2. Prince of Wales. Duke of Cornwall. Earl of Rothsay. Eldest son of the monarch.
3. Princess Royal. Eldest daughter of the monarch.
4. Duke of York. Usually the second son of the monarch. Who is also a Prince.
5. Various other Royal Dukedoms or Earldoms conferred ad hoc on royal Princes. Their spouses acquire the female equivalent upon marriage.
The following are classifications for the Aristocracy, also referred to as the Nobility, and members of the Peerage.
They are the class level immediately below royalty. Their titles are inherited, usually through male primogenitor and usually are landed.
In order of precedence, with spouse equivalence:-
1. Duke and Duchess.
2. Marquis and Marchioness.
3. Earl and Countess.
4. Viscount and Viscountess.
5. Baron and Baroness.
Landed gentry. Usually a gentleman who has an inheritable knighthood:-
1. Sir and Lady.
Life and other Peers. This is a relatively recent innovation. As self explanatory, they are not inherited or able to be passed on. Only to be enjoyed during the lifetime of the recipient.
They are conferred on any individual from any background, class or walk of life for some outstanding service or contribution to the nation.
They are nominated by convention. By the Prime Minister, Organisations or Institutions, or members of the public.
They are usually announced in the New Years Honours List or the monarchs Birthday Honours List.
1. Sir or Dame.
Knightood or Dameship
2. Life Peerage. The specific description of the Lordship or Ladyship is chosen by the recipient. These people are entitled to sit and vote in the House of Lords.
Under Prince/Princess you forgot to mention that as well as children/grandchildren of a reigning monarch, letters patent had said the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales. This is why Prince George immediately would have become Prince George. Prior to his birth the rules changed to allow the eldest child of the heir to the Prince of Wales to be heir, whether boy or girl. Because of that, the rules changed so that all children of the eldest child of the Prince of Wales became Prince/Princess. This meant Princess Charlotte and Prince Louis. This was mistakenly believed by some to be a rejection of Prince Harry's children as Prince/Princess, causing lots of anger. Had they stopped to consider the sole reason it was done was the expected long life of HMQEII and the removal of the first born male taking seniority over a first born female, they would maybe have been less angry. Instead, it was wrongly portrayed as racism.
@@shininglightphotos1044Thanks for filling in some of the gaps. I already thought I'd been wittering on for too long and was running out of steam.
I was originally going to put in some dates and examples but thought it was already getting a bit mind-boggling.
👍😉
It's nothing like you think it's about structure of each class money is the problem but for sheer tenacity and guts these small Islands are looked with class from sheer sheer quality traditional style and charm and change to give structure for not only change but reform
Some of royal palaces personally belong to the Royal family. Windsor and Buckingham Palace belong to the state and only the monarch can live there. No, British Person wants to marry into the Royal Family as it is a very restrictive life.
Income is only one indicator of social class in Britain. Except that area within the margins of the middle class, there is still very little social mobility in Britain.
You are born into one particular segment of one particular social class, and you will live and die in it.
Rock stars may rub shoulders with aristocrats, but those aristocrats would never admit them into their tier. Also, aristocrats usually marry aristocrats.
It doesn't matter how wealthy Liam Gallagher is. He will always be regarded as working class. Mick Jagger, whose dad was a teacher, will always be regarded as lower middle class.
Class affects every little thing in Britain, and is so complex, with so many subtle indicators, that it would be impossible for any non-Brit, in my humble opinion, to understand fully just how very far-reaching its effects are.
Until the '60s, National Service and the factories used to 'mop up' the underclass, which is vast (and terrifying to the rest of us!).....but with so many of our industries gone, and the military utterly downsized now, they're just left to vegetate on welfare. Uncontrolled immigration has only added to this huge problem.
But the class system remains just the same as ever, even if it's now slightly less visible.
😕🇬🇧😕
If you want to command a Star Destroyer, go to Eton or Harrow
My mother gave me the option- speak without an accent or get sent to elocution classes. people definitely saw through the name change- but was mostly forgotten by the next generation. If you want to know more about the social and intermarriage of the aristocracy try reading the magazine The Tatler.
This particular class system has evolved uniquely over the centuries in the UK.
Yes, we did have a King beheaded. Yes, we have had civil wars. Yes, we did try a Republic for a while and changed our minds. But somehow or another, we've managed to muddle through and reach compromises.
We may be going through some little difficulties at this time, but social mobility still exists. We have a constitutional monarchy that works for us, education for all, universal suffrage, and I've not seen much forlock tugging in my lifetime. 😉
th-cam.com/video/W34CsPPw5uM/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
This looks like a ‘snob’s’ eye view of the ‘class system’ to me JJ. The history is correct but the view of modern Britain in my view is not. The lines are much more blurred today. With the exception of the ruling class or ‘establishment’.
I disagree. I think it is very accurate. I think the content creator went out of his way to indicate where the lines are blurred (and some are) and where they are not).
Class amongst males used to be defined by the shirt they wore. Blue collar workers were working class. White collar workers were middle class. This was because their shirts had button on collars, as it allowed them to wear the body of the shirt for longer, while the collar could be cleaned to look respectable The manual labour of the working class meant their shirt collar would get grubbier through sweat, so not stay white. This is why their collars were blue. The upper classes could afford the whole shirt,so the collar was never an issue, as they changed at various times of the day, such as dinner, anyway.