The EPROM eraser uses shortwave UV light that is almost completely blocked by ordinary glass. That's why the EPROMs have quartz windows. A blacklight style longwave UV lamp may work better. Have you tried acetone nail varnish remover to clean the residual glue off?
+CNLohr maybe the apliedscience's evaporative method would work? It's fast so I'm thinking maybe it would not have the time to get under the copper traces.
I really need to make more glass PCBs some time. There's so many things I want to try and new ideas so many people have had.. Right now, I'm so busy with other stuff.
I tried using an EPROM eraser to cheat making photo-resist pcb's in the 1980's - It took forever but eventually worked. The problem is that the wavelength of the UV light is wrong. It's like the difference between UV-A and UV-B.
Dude this is fucking awesome, I am a mechanical engineering student but I'm learning so much about electronics manufacturing from people like you and other open-source projects. Thanks a lot!
8 ปีที่แล้ว +1
+H5ck Well, I am a student of electrical engineering and I learnt everything from TH-cam videos and Wikipedia. Thanks, school!
If you're doing regular circuit boards, the laminator (note this is a modified GBC H-220) is spectacular. You can usually get everything to stick really well in 2-3 times through. No ironing needed.
This is so incredibly cool! I can think of so many "just for looks" applications for this to make some really cool, and actually functional, stuff. Thank you for sharing this.
Wow, this is really ambitious and a very cool idea. We have expensive Liquid Flow Meters that just use a plate of glass over some heat detecting LEDs to act as simple push buttons but yet have the circuit isolated from the externals. This...could be very handy...great job by the way!
Your etching solution is actually etching the glass giving it a frosted look. If you use pyrex or borosilicate glass slides you will not have this problem. You will have totally clear boards! The glass you are using must be a "soft" glass which has a COE (Coefficient of Expansion) of around 130, Pyrex or Boro glass has a COE of around 30. The low COE also makes it far less susceptible to thermal shock. Clear and no cracks! Win! Also this is one of the coolest things I've ever seen!
I doubt the slide has a UV coating - it's just that glass is not very transparent at the short wavelength used in UV erasers (253nm) Eprom windows and eraser tubes are made of quartz for this reason. It may also be the case that the glue is not very res[ponsive at that wavelength. You will probably do better with a longer-wave UV source like an insect-killer tube (365nm).
@BelfonteFurnace You could always try with the not-glass variety. Additionally, I only have about a 50% yield when making boards of about 20 square inches and up.
I've had the notion to try and make some PCBs out of unusual material like glass for a little while now, but I didn't really know where to begin (I've done the toner transfer method, but I had no idea if I could even buy copper sheets), thanks for the inspiration!
It works on multiple substances, including film, however, you would not be able to toaster-oven film. You can do this on kapton, and it does toaster oven. I have never tried to do two layer.
I have this listed under my "to buy" section. I doubt the ferric chloride will be able to eat through the glue, but it may be possible to silkscreen the stuff.
I use Liquid Tin quote often on most of my projects. The boards look 'cooler' with bare copper rather than tinned. I have still never successfully done a dual layer (not that I haven't tried). I would imagine the static properties are almost identical to regular FR4. I've been using glass circuit boards for a number of touch projects in my house which is carpeted, and even noticed some serious static, but haven't had a failure yet.
This is awesome. I'd love to see a controller like that for say, changing the radio or some sort of game input device. Thanks for showing us how you did it.
Schematic is in ExpressPCB. Full version of eagle is not free. I don't use anything that's for pay unless I absolutely cannot avoid it. It's simply discharges the circuit, then waits for it to charge via 1M-ohm resistor. Depending on how long it takes to charge, that's how it knows how much capacitance you are adding.
@CNLohr I think orgameron means leaving the copper traces in place while brushing a solvent over the areas where you don't want/need the UV glue and just using the actual traces to protect the glue like the toner protects the copper during etching. It seems like that's more or less what you're doing with the polyurethane though as it cuts through the UV glue like a solvent but is also acting as a new method to adhere the traces at the same time.
I've tried using angel gilded glass (both copper and silver) but never found a method that I could electroplate that wasn't completely terrible (either destroying the substrate or being lumpy). Also, it would be impractical to do electrolysis afterward as you would have to make contact with all the traces.
I have never tried acrylic, but as I recall, it blocks UV light. Additionally, it would not survive the soldering process, I'm assuming it would melt apart.
I have made a PVD and i made a completely clear and very thin PCB with that some years ago, looked pretty cool. Have also made copper, silver and aluminum mirrors that looked awesome.
Also a syringe works well for depositing solder paste in tight areas, and automotive clear coat finish is highly resilient when it comes time to use solvents such as acetone, and is somewhat flexible until cured.
I use the iron after the laminator, because my toner does not stick well with just the laminator. I've tried using acetone, but it eats the glue so quickly, the copper falls off the glass.
@BelfonteFurnace I have never tried layering this stuff, but I would not imagine it working too well. I don't really know how people do X/Y touch sensors.
Thanks for the fast reply. I have ordered some copper that is normally used for guitar pick-up shielding to experiment with. I have the exact same printer in this video to use I can test with and see what I can get it to do :). If I find a reliable method I will let you know.
I use the attiny44. You don't need any special IC, just a 1 megaohm resistor and an GPIO. You can do this on most of their processors, not things like the attiny2313 though. Also, you don't need qtouch.
That's really cool - I tried angel gilding and electroplating it thicker and a few other things, but nothing could stand up to what I was after like this.
There have been a lot of suggestions for this. I've switch to a spray polyurethane, but a number of products would probably work. I really don't have the time or resources to try them all! I recommend making some glass PCBs yourself and trying it out.
That was a nice spark when you plugged in your programming board ~18:10. Your last resistor looks like it had a short under it. From our view, the top one to our right of the IC chip. The first time you place the copper on the glass slide, there is a better way to prevent bubbles to begin with so you don't need to squeeze them out. Basic bio-lab slide making 101.
im thinking about this for building an amplifier with a glass case so you can see everything inside. a lot of those components are only through hole due to their size. i think it would look amazing on a glass pcb with a clear enclosure
It's an interesting idea. I have often thought about using an acrylic, but that would have problems at solder temperatures... I was always under the impression epoxies without a strengthener were very brittle, though.
Could you use a laser printer to print resist onto the copper first while it is thin? Obviously the printer will need to provide a negative charge to the copper instead of the positive charge the printer normally places on the paper.
@conundrum2007 I already tried two or three times using very thin copper leaf and I couldn't get it to stick evenly and be robust enough to survive the rest of the process.
As it turns out it appears the wavelength used in the eeprom eraser is not optimal. The glass is transparent to UV, but you need to use a source like a mercury hallide grow lamp to get the right wavelengths.
Very good work I must say.one thing I see a lot is solder iron so big for the smallest work.And all so in a right mess .i have 7-soldering irons all different and shiny clean.one iv just bought is 12-volt and I Added a tiny micro switch so when I hold it I just press with my finger and all added a white bright Led the Led stays on all the time when I'm using this micro soldering iron.your work is good and would be easier for you to use a small soldering iron for when you re-solder some of you micro work.great video keep up the good work
This is an awesome idea. I think I'm going to try something like this, and see if I can pull off a through hole board. It's got to be possible if you drill real carefully, and have lots of extras on hand in the event of a slip of the hand.
I have not tried it, but I would imagine yes. I recently found out that UV lamp is not ideal for curing the glue because the wavelength is wrong. You would have to try.
I dont do this stuff, but am interested in learning how. So for what it's worth from an inexperienced observer, perhaps using a hot plate or inverted iron to heat the glass evenly when melting your solder paste would limit the possibility of cracking it. place the slides in a thin frame (thumb tacks point up through cardboard) to prevent them from sliding around as much when applying the poly. Split a small dowel in half and pinch steel wool between the halves. Insert one end into a drill.
When using the matte back copper, it doesn't really rub off.... ever it seems. But, I've been trying some shiny-backed copper and that is a major concern when removing the toner. Once the polyurethane is on, it's all on there for good. There's a lot of equipment, and not much space, I'll admit.
Hi, I've done quite a lot of thru hole PCBs and I saw this video and was amazed, I've been trying to Fe into smd/smt pcb fabrication, and I was wondering what kind of solder paste are you using? Do you have another video with in-depth description on smd soldering? That'd be awesome! Thanks a lot and keep up the awesome work!
Yes. I got some glass that was angel gilded, chemically plated on. I attempted to electroplate it further, but could not get it thick enough to electroplate effectively... The areas that I did were lumpy and did not go on even. Keep in mind, you need about 1 mil of metal to make a good circuit board.
Compressive forces on the surface of the pane make it much harder to break. However, high tensile strengths in the glass pane make it shatter if cut, chipped or even sometimes scratched. This is why car windows, for example, will shatter into small, barely sharp parts instead of large, razor-sharp pieces.
@CNLohr basically the same thing you do to eat away the copper but for the UV glue you have. Use a solvent instead of ferric chloride(not sure if that's supposed to be one word or not) and use the etched pcb traces instead of toner. That way the glue is removed from the glass and the traces protect the glue under it. Like I said though you're already doing something similar with the polyurethane but with the added benefit of replacing the glue with something else more permanent.
I have tried, with many different epoxies, glues, etc. to no avail. Also, on glass, you can't use a clothes iron, but on regular PCBs, it's not that bad.
You put the carborundum paste onto the glass, chuck copper then spin it in the carborundum. some grit gets trapped by copper and a hole is drilled. Usually it is how larger holes are drilled but I don't see why smaller ones wouldn't work. Drilling glass is slow going though. I can't imagine drilling a whole circuit out in glass.
Awesome! I completely overlooked that file, thanks again. I was starting to pull my hair out because express pc doesn't like to run under my setup in crossover.
Neat method for single sided surface mount designs but a few tips: 1. As Java Lu (and maybe others) said, TRIPOD - PLEASE!! 2. Tin board with tinning solution before assembly - gives superior soldering 3. Use several coats of auto-spray lacquer on final assy for vastly superior finish. 4. When spraying remove all connectors & protect the header pins with sleeving or low tack masking tape for larger blocks 5. CLEAN your soldering iron tip PLEASE & use a much finer tip for such work
Yeah, I have a 5N now. I do tin boards, many times, but it ruins the look of the board. And, I haven't had any trouble with solder-ability when I use paste. I actually have switch to a spray polyurethane now, too, doing just that. And, I totally am good with that hulk tip.
Have you ever tried selectively gluing the copper on? I'm thinking: -UV glue the copper sheet to the slide -tape a negative of your circuit on the non-copper side -Expose the glue through the negative (so that only the glue under where the traces are meant to be gets exposed) -Peel off the reset of the copper
I'm laying one up with clear epoxy resin at this very moment. I'll let you know how it works out, I think it'll be a little less 'touchy' than the UV glue as it's what is used in conventional copper clad laminates
The glue is not conductive, while the glue is translucent, you'd still need a material that can conduct. I do use this process for touch sensors, I put designs into the copper.
btw: what about using a transparent casting epoxy like those used for embedding carbon fiber or fibreglass you could just pour a thin layer of epoxy directly on the copper - so you won't need any glass at all, get seamlessly bond material (transparent of course) and you don't have to worry about thermal issues while soldering technically it would be an FR4 or 5 PCB without the strengthening fibreglass sheets
Celestron 1mm thick microscope slides? The HCS is a lot bigger than anything I deal with. Most of the time I use an ATMega, like I did on my minecraft server on a microscope slide. It's the same processor that is in most arduinos.
I may try this... I don't have a laminator or uv oven though. It's been years and years since I fooled with circuit design and/or breadboarding. I've never made pcb's. My line of work is BGA reball/reflow and general computer repair. Love anything to do with electronics!
That seems to be what most people are using. I've read that they've changed the design recently (see the PCB "Fab in a box" page) for the worse. I was able to find this one on amazon that I'm going to try out called the Apache AL13P. Hopefully it won't need modification.
well i have a good drill press and i imagine the glass wouldn't put up much of a fight if it was scored first and then i made sure it was coated with linseed oil when drilled. also, how sturdy is that glass in terms of breaking force?
I believe the quantity is somewhere in the order of one part per 30,000 dilution. If you pour the FeCl down the drain, bad things happen, if it's just a few drops, and you run plenty of water, it's not that bad.
I made something similar, but first step was to vapor-deposite copper on glass, then a bit of galvanic process to enhance layer, then mask + etching and OALA circuit on glass was done :)
@mrpsypi super glue will not work, I tried several times with it. If it did, there would be many other materials I could use. Maybe epoxies would work, but right now, I'm going to be trying another UV glue. If it works out, it'd be cheaper and easier to get (Since it's Loctite brand). I'll give you a heads up.
If making a clear circuit was done in a mass scale we would have a clear phone not entirely clear but the first company to build it would the first step for the other companies. It would change the entire world.
I was able to procedurally keep the temperature even and controlled in later tests. As long as I'm not using the RoHS stuff, it's fine. The bismuth stuff looks expensive.
well i use a 1/32" bit with a dremel on normal PCBs and it works really well, but i highly doubt it's carbide tipped. what does it mean for glass to be tempered, though? i thought tempered glass would be more likely to withstand the drilling force.
Hey, this material is hard to find on ebay. I've found some 1.4mil (1 oz equivalent) copper sheeting from a different online retailer, but it's shiny on both sides. Will that cause the lamination to fail? It looks like you could also use this lamination process with kapton plastic, which might have interesting applications in diy wearables.
excess solder can also be removed from bridged terminals on a surface mount components by simply stripping a piece of stranded copper wire using it like a sponge. i also prefer to take a grinder and chuck my tip in a drill to grind it to an extra fine point, then use liquid tin to prime the tip. Moving fast with a solder iron and solder paste you can avoid heating the glass by not exposing the glass to long periods of heat like you would using a messy soldering tip..
Have you tried a UV pond clariier lamp? I use one occasionally in a special enclosure I built to erase EPROMs. Mine is 13W, and my cycle time is usually 5-10 minutes.
The EPROM eraser uses shortwave UV light that is almost completely blocked by ordinary glass. That's why the EPROMs have quartz windows. A blacklight style longwave UV lamp may work better. Have you tried acetone nail varnish remover to clean the residual glue off?
bigclivedotcom Acetone causes the traces to slup off. I think it gets between the traces and the back of the PCB.
+CNLohr maybe the apliedscience's evaporative method would work? It's fast so I'm thinking maybe it would not have the time to get under the copper traces.
I really need to make more glass PCBs some time. There's so many things I want to try and new ideas so many people have had.. Right now, I'm so busy with other stuff.
I tried using an EPROM eraser to cheat making photo-resist pcb's in the 1980's - It took forever but eventually worked. The problem is that the wavelength of the UV light is wrong. It's like the difference between UV-A and UV-B.
Dude this is fucking awesome, I am a mechanical engineering student but I'm learning so much about electronics manufacturing from people like you and other open-source projects. Thanks a lot!
+H5ck Well, I am a student of electrical engineering and I learnt everything from TH-cam videos and Wikipedia. Thanks, school!
Wow. This is the first TH-cam user I've ever encountered who actually knows the proper use of TH-cam annotations. Well done sir!
If you're doing regular circuit boards, the laminator (note this is a modified GBC H-220) is spectacular. You can usually get everything to stick really well in 2-3 times through. No ironing needed.
This is so incredibly cool! I can think of so many "just for looks" applications for this to make some really cool, and actually functional, stuff. Thank you for sharing this.
This is a flawless process and you did it with one hand, while filming and while talking.
You are my hero.
:)
Great video!
Wow, this is really ambitious and a very cool idea. We have expensive Liquid Flow Meters that just use a plate of glass over some heat detecting LEDs to act as simple push buttons but yet have the circuit isolated from the externals. This...could be very handy...great job by the way!
It's so cool the way you can see the etching happening through the glass.
Your etching solution is actually etching the glass giving it a frosted look. If you use pyrex or borosilicate glass slides you will not have this problem. You will have totally clear boards! The glass you are using must be a "soft" glass which has a COE (Coefficient of Expansion) of around 130, Pyrex or Boro glass has a COE of around 30. The low COE also makes it far less susceptible to thermal shock. Clear and no cracks! Win! Also this is one of the coolest things I've ever seen!
its a relief to see a very well done instructional video on youtube! Cheers to you my brother! Greetings from germany
That is absolutely amazing!.. two thumbs for you my friend because that is technology and art in one piece.. not to mention it is functional as well.
I doubt the slide has a UV coating - it's just that glass is not very transparent at the short wavelength used in UV erasers (253nm) Eprom windows and eraser tubes are made of quartz for this reason. It may also be the case that the glue is not very res[ponsive at that wavelength. You will probably do better with a longer-wave UV source like an insect-killer tube (365nm).
Even though i have no clue what any of this video meant, I enjoy listening to your voice, its very instructive :P
The processor on there is an attiny44... I was using a tinyisp to program it. The specific programmer was a redesign I did.
@BelfonteFurnace You could always try with the not-glass variety. Additionally, I only have about a 50% yield when making boards of about 20 square inches and up.
I do use a drop from the middle nowadays, but there are usually very, very small bubbles on the surface that do not splay out.
I've had the notion to try and make some PCBs out of unusual material like glass for a little while now, but I didn't really know where to begin (I've done the toner transfer method, but I had no idea if I could even buy copper sheets), thanks for the inspiration!
It works on multiple substances, including film, however, you would not be able to toaster-oven film. You can do this on kapton, and it does toaster oven.
I have never tried to do two layer.
I have this listed under my "to buy" section. I doubt the ferric chloride will be able to eat through the glue, but it may be possible to silkscreen the stuff.
I use Liquid Tin quote often on most of my projects. The boards look 'cooler' with bare copper rather than tinned.
I have still never successfully done a dual layer (not that I haven't tried).
I would imagine the static properties are almost identical to regular FR4. I've been using glass circuit boards for a number of touch projects in my house which is carpeted, and even noticed some serious static, but haven't had a failure yet.
This is awesome. I'd love to see a controller like that for say, changing the radio or some sort of game input device. Thanks for showing us how you did it.
Wow this was the coolest thing I saw the past few months
Schematic is in ExpressPCB. Full version of eagle is not free. I don't use anything that's for pay unless I absolutely cannot avoid it.
It's simply discharges the circuit, then waits for it to charge via 1M-ohm resistor. Depending on how long it takes to charge, that's how it knows how much capacitance you are adding.
@CNLohr I think orgameron means leaving the copper traces in place while brushing a solvent over the areas where you don't want/need the UV glue and just using the actual traces to protect the glue like the toner protects the copper during etching. It seems like that's more or less what you're doing with the polyurethane though as it cuts through the UV glue like a solvent but is also acting as a new method to adhere the traces at the same time.
I've tried using angel gilded glass (both copper and silver) but never found a method that I could electroplate that wasn't completely terrible (either destroying the substrate or being lumpy). Also, it would be impractical to do electrolysis afterward as you would have to make contact with all the traces.
I have never tried acrylic, but as I recall, it blocks UV light. Additionally, it would not survive the soldering process, I'm assuming it would melt apart.
I have made a PVD and i made a completely clear and very thin PCB with that some years ago, looked pretty cool. Have also made copper, silver and aluminum mirrors that looked awesome.
Also a syringe works well for depositing solder paste in tight areas, and automotive clear coat finish is highly resilient when it comes time to use solvents such as acetone, and is somewhat flexible until cured.
I use the iron after the laminator, because my toner does not stick well with just the laminator.
I've tried using acetone, but it eats the glue so quickly, the copper falls off the glass.
@BelfonteFurnace I have never tried layering this stuff, but I would not imagine it working too well. I don't really know how people do X/Y touch sensors.
I've tried a few, but nothing ended up working out. Even now, my process has changed some but I am still using the same glue.
Thanks for the fast reply. I have ordered some copper that is normally used for guitar pick-up shielding to experiment with. I have the exact same printer in this video to use I can test with and see what I can get it to do :). If I find a reliable method I will let you know.
Dude, this is incredible! I have never seen anything like this. After seeing this vid, I have a few cool ideas to try soon.
I use the attiny44. You don't need any special IC, just a 1 megaohm resistor and an GPIO. You can do this on most of their processors, not things like the attiny2313 though. Also, you don't need qtouch.
oh but note: the glass and actual construction of the board itself was quite sufficient in this video and I want to say awesome vid ^_^
That's really cool - I tried angel gilding and electroplating it thicker and a few other things, but nothing could stand up to what I was after like this.
There have been a lot of suggestions for this. I've switch to a spray polyurethane, but a number of products would probably work. I really don't have the time or resources to try them all! I recommend making some glass PCBs yourself and trying it out.
That was a nice spark when you plugged in your programming board ~18:10.
Your last resistor looks like it had a short under it. From our view, the top one to our right of the IC chip.
The first time you place the copper on the glass slide, there is a better way to prevent bubbles to begin with so you don't need to squeeze them out. Basic bio-lab slide making 101.
im thinking about this for building an amplifier with a glass case so you can see everything inside. a lot of those components are only through hole due to their size. i think it would look amazing on a glass pcb with a clear enclosure
It's an interesting idea. I have often thought about using an acrylic, but that would have problems at solder temperatures... I was always under the impression epoxies without a strengthener were very brittle, though.
Could you use a laser printer to print resist onto the copper first while it is thin? Obviously the printer will need to provide a negative charge to the copper instead of the positive charge the printer normally places on the paper.
Nice work!
Unfortunately I've not patience to do all this stuff, and never got a good results...
Your work is very good, have quality!
@conundrum2007 I already tried two or three times using very thin copper leaf and I couldn't get it to stick evenly and be robust enough to survive the rest of the process.
As it turns out it appears the wavelength used in the eeprom eraser is not optimal. The glass is transparent to UV, but you need to use a source like a mercury hallide grow lamp to get the right wavelengths.
Very good work I must say.one thing I see a lot is solder iron so big for the smallest work.And all so in a right mess .i have 7-soldering irons all different and shiny clean.one iv just bought is 12-volt and I Added a tiny micro switch so when I hold it I just press with my finger and all added a white bright Led the Led stays on all the time when I'm using this micro soldering iron.your work is good and would be easier for you to use a small soldering iron for when you re-solder some of you micro work.great video keep up the good work
How would you only remove the copper that's not glued down?
This is an awesome idea. I think I'm going to try something like this, and see if I can pull off a through hole board. It's got to be possible if you drill real carefully, and have lots of extras on hand in the event of a slip of the hand.
I have not tried it, but I would imagine yes. I recently found out that UV lamp is not ideal for curing the glue because the wavelength is wrong. You would have to try.
@orgameron Alcohol was pretty slow, but when I tried using it, it looks like I did damage to the traces by the time I got much of any of it up.
I dont do this stuff, but am interested in learning how. So for what it's worth from an inexperienced observer, perhaps using a hot plate or inverted iron to heat the glass evenly when melting your solder paste would limit the possibility of cracking it. place the slides in a thin frame (thumb tacks point up through cardboard) to prevent them from sliding around as much when applying the poly. Split a small dowel in half and pinch steel wool between the halves. Insert one end into a drill.
@raysolomon Most of that that I've seen already has FR4 or other fiberglass backing
oh? I am changing things around, but what would you recommend?
Acrylic won't survive soldering, so I never tried to see if I could do the rest of the print.
When using the matte back copper, it doesn't really rub off.... ever it seems. But, I've been trying some shiny-backed copper and that is a major concern when removing the toner. Once the polyurethane is on, it's all on there for good. There's a lot of equipment, and not much space, I'll admit.
Hi, I've done quite a lot of thru hole PCBs and I saw this video and was amazed, I've been trying to Fe into smd/smt pcb fabrication, and I was wondering what kind of solder paste are you using? Do you have another video with in-depth description on smd soldering? That'd be awesome! Thanks a lot and keep up the awesome work!
Yes. I got some glass that was angel gilded, chemically plated on. I attempted to electroplate it further, but could not get it thick enough to electroplate effectively... The areas that I did were lumpy and did not go on even. Keep in mind, you need about 1 mil of metal to make a good circuit board.
Really cool. I wrap a paper clip around my soldering tip to get in really tight spots.
Compressive forces on the surface of the pane make it much harder to break. However, high tensile strengths in the glass pane make it shatter if cut, chipped or even sometimes scratched. This is why car windows, for example, will shatter into small, barely sharp parts instead of large, razor-sharp pieces.
It's just a touch sensor - depending on the area you contact, it changes how strongly it believe it is pressed.
Pretty cool project. The camera focus bit was funny. A tip, just put the camera in macro mode. No more focus problems.
@CNLohr basically the same thing you do to eat away the copper but for the UV glue you have. Use a solvent instead of ferric chloride(not sure if that's supposed to be one word or not) and use the etched pcb traces instead of toner. That way the glue is removed from the glass and the traces protect the glue under it. Like I said though you're already doing something similar with the polyurethane but with the added benefit of replacing the glue with something else more permanent.
I get mine from Digikey, but you can get it from a few other places. Pulsar toner transfer paper!
I'm pretty sure it's a matter of glass /really/ wanting to shatter when you drill it. I've never tried though.
I have tried, with many different epoxies, glues, etc. to no avail. Also, on glass, you can't use a clothes iron, but on regular PCBs, it's not that bad.
You put the carborundum paste onto the glass, chuck copper then spin it in the carborundum. some grit gets trapped by copper and a hole is drilled. Usually it is how larger holes are drilled but I don't see why smaller ones wouldn't work. Drilling glass is slow going though. I can't imagine drilling a whole circuit out in glass.
@conundrum2007 I have never used Z axis film and don't really understand it... Do you have any references for how hobbyists have used it in the past?
Awesome! I completely overlooked that file, thanks again. I was starting to pull my hair out because express pc doesn't like to run under my setup in crossover.
Neat method for single sided surface mount designs but a few tips:
1. As Java Lu (and maybe others) said, TRIPOD - PLEASE!!
2. Tin board with tinning solution before assembly - gives superior soldering
3. Use several coats of auto-spray lacquer on final assy for vastly superior finish.
4. When spraying remove all connectors & protect the header pins with sleeving or low tack masking tape for larger blocks
5. CLEAN your soldering iron tip PLEASE & use a much finer tip for such work
Yeah, I have a 5N now. I do tin boards, many times, but it ruins the look of the board. And, I haven't had any trouble with solder-ability when I use paste. I actually have switch to a spray polyurethane now, too, doing just that. And, I totally am good with that hulk tip.
Have you ever tried selectively gluing the copper on? I'm thinking:
-UV glue the copper sheet to the slide
-tape a negative of your circuit on the non-copper side
-Expose the glue through the negative (so that only the glue under where the traces are meant to be gets exposed)
-Peel off the reset of the copper
Its been about a year but I finally made a board that plugs into an Atmel board. Can't wait to get them in.
@dinofizz I see no reason why you cannot use other PCB manufacture methods.
Might also be possible to directly mount chips and LEDs to the glass using Z axis film?
I'm laying one up with clear epoxy resin at this very moment. I'll let you know how it works out, I think it'll be a little less 'touchy' than the UV glue as it's what is used in conventional copper clad laminates
I have no clue what you did there or why. But it sure was interesting to watch.
The glue is not conductive, while the glue is translucent, you'd still need a material that can conduct. I do use this process for touch sensors, I put designs into the copper.
@kd1s It was in macro mode :(. It was a $99 polaroid 720p camera.
btw: what about using a transparent casting epoxy like those used for embedding carbon fiber or fibreglass
you could just pour a thin layer of epoxy directly on the copper - so you won't need any glass at all, get seamlessly bond material (transparent of course) and you don't have to worry about thermal issues while soldering
technically it would be an FR4 or 5 PCB without the strengthening fibreglass sheets
Celestron 1mm thick microscope slides?
The HCS is a lot bigger than anything I deal with. Most of the time I use an ATMega, like I did on my minecraft server on a microscope slide. It's the same processor that is in most arduinos.
I've tried that a lot, and it almost never works out well. but you can apply the paper to the copper before it's attached to the glass.
I may try this... I don't have a laminator or uv oven though. It's been years and years since I fooled with circuit design and/or breadboarding. I've never made pcb's. My line of work is BGA reball/reflow and general computer repair. Love anything to do with electronics!
I wonder if using heat activated glue would let you able to make double sided PCBs. Had an idea of using brass foil for a circuit board.
I can't figure out where to buy small quantities of this stuff...
@dbzfanatic21 I still don't quite get it - are you describing a photolithograpy method?
That seems to be what most people are using. I've read that they've changed the design recently (see the PCB "Fab in a box" page) for the worse. I was able to find this one on amazon that I'm going to try out called the Apache AL13P. Hopefully it won't need modification.
to protect the circuit from grime, dust, and to an extent ESD in the environment as well as to make the boards shiny and more see-through.
well i have a good drill press and i imagine the glass wouldn't put up much of a fight if it was scored first and then i made sure it was coated with linseed oil when drilled. also, how sturdy is that glass in terms of breaking force?
I believe the quantity is somewhere in the order of one part per 30,000 dilution. If you pour the FeCl down the drain, bad things happen, if it's just a few drops, and you run plenty of water, it's not that bad.
I do now! But, you can't etch until it's attached to the glass otherwise you get a pile of traces.
I made something similar, but first step was to vapor-deposite copper on glass, then a bit of galvanic process to enhance layer, then mask + etching and OALA circuit on glass was done :)
@mrpsypi super glue will not work, I tried several times with it. If it did, there would be many other materials I could use. Maybe epoxies would work, but right now, I'm going to be trying another UV glue. If it works out, it'd be cheaper and easier to get (Since it's Loctite brand). I'll give you a heads up.
If making a clear circuit was done in a mass scale we would have a clear phone not entirely clear but the first company to build it would the first step for the other companies. It would change the entire world.
It's got so many drawbacks though. This was more for an aesthetic than any practical reason.
I was able to procedurally keep the temperature even and controlled in later tests. As long as I'm not using the RoHS stuff, it's fine. The bismuth stuff looks expensive.
FANTASTIC WELL DONE!
1. have you try this on transparent film?
2. have you think about how to make a double layer one? so you can make led matrix?
well i use a 1/32" bit with a dremel on normal PCBs and it works really well, but i highly doubt it's carbide tipped. what does it mean for glass to be tempered, though? i thought tempered glass would be more likely to withstand the drilling force.
very cool, thank you for sharing. Could you send us a link to the paste/ solder stuff you use in this process, thanks
Hey, this material is hard to find on ebay. I've found some 1.4mil (1 oz equivalent) copper sheeting from a different online retailer, but it's shiny on both sides. Will that cause the lamination to fail?
It looks like you could also use this lamination process with kapton plastic, which might have interesting applications in diy wearables.
excess solder can also be removed from bridged terminals on a surface mount components by simply stripping a piece of stranded copper wire using it like a sponge. i also prefer to take a grinder and chuck my tip in a drill to grind it to an extra fine point, then use liquid tin to prime the tip. Moving fast with a solder iron and solder paste you can avoid heating the glass by not exposing the glass to long periods of heat like you would using a messy soldering tip..
Have you tried a UV pond clariier lamp? I use one occasionally in a special enclosure I built to erase EPROMs. Mine is 13W, and my cycle time is usually 5-10 minutes.
That is what I used here. It turns out UV grow lights work much better. See my new video! :)
CNLohr what video you mentioned here? i can not find it yet
I don't know what you mean... do you mean you cannot find the UV light?
@lilhojo123 I try not to get oils on the side I join the copper to.