Zatsus are their best streams. They can lead perfect conversation. People who can really "walk the walk" with tons of experience. People who can really go deep with conversation.
As a younger woman, hags seem so inspiring. There's always been this stigma that women can't have fun or enjoy things once they're old enough. Seeing vtubers still indulge in their interests and be unafraid regardless of their age motivates me a lot with my own goals in life. In a society that chases youth and being young, it's a pleasant change!
Eeeeh Look, I like hag vtubers too, my favorites are literally Airi and Marine, but that doesn't translate to IRL as well. Being a vtuber masks all the negatives of being a hag (not just looks), and leaves you with mostly only the positives, that's why they end up being popular. This is not society discovering Hags are great, this is people basically agreeing taht if Lolibabas (eternally young and youthfull, and yet experienced and mature) were a real thing, they would be extremely desirable.
I don't know who told you that, but they were fucking lying. I've seen so many moms get depressed after their children grow up and leave because they feel like they've lost their purpose in life. That's wrong. You just left a phase of your life behind and entered a new one with new opportunities and options that weren't available before. People used to knows this before feminism. A woman's life "begins" after motherhood (especially if she has a loving and supportive husband who has spent the past two decades building a stable career). The idea that women need to get their degrees and careers in place now while they're young is the dumbest but also most insidious lie ever whispered in somebody's ear. A woman over forty with several adult children under her belt is and will always be FAR more respected in the business world and "world of men" than some young thing fresh out of university thinking she is going to change the world (she isn't). As a man it both hurts and somewhat amuses me to see young women foolishly trying to cash in on a privilege rightfully restricted to older, post-motherhood women early and putting off the usage of the privilege rightfully restricted (by Nature) to younger women. They think they can have both things their way but they end up with neither thing in the end. Their career fails inevitably and they find out freezing their eggs isn't as viable as they were told/believed. Men are only capable of respecting older women, and mothers in particular, because mothers (especially those who have had boys) are usually actually capable of empathizing with men while younger women are not (no you don't understand men just because you know what makes them horny, try again.) So it makes sense that younger women without kids in business aren't respected while older women with kids breaking into business absolutely are (I mean, Margret Thatcher anyone?) unless they prove themselves unworthy of men's respect through their behavior. You cannot cheat Death and Nature ladies. So while you wait to hit your "Career" phase of life, why not have some kids to get that personal growth in along the way so you can come out swinging in Phase 2 of your life?
@@StarboyXL9 you mean “empty nest syndrome” that parents talk about? I mean it shouldn’t be that surprising that parents struggle to find themselves after spending so long mentally, physically and emotionally caring for a child. That’s why parents tell you that having a child isn’t something to rush into. I wouldn’t say that kids automatically generates respect out in the world, just like how not having kids doesn’t. It’s all more based on your mindset and reasonings for either lifestyle. When you say privilege, are you referring to hobbies? Personally I don’t think that should be locked behind having to be a certain age. We all naturally seek to learn and develop skills from the day we’re both to the day we die, why deprive anyone the chance?
@@tumamaencosplay that’s a pretty good point, I can imagine just like its easier to talk about the honest truths of being in that age range, it’s probably just as easy to sugar coat and stretch truths. I think it just ends up depending on the person behind the vtuber.
Hags are great because, having more life experience, they generally don't take things for granted and are very appreciative of their fans. Of course it's not an absolute rule it still depends of the chuuba's personality. Also non hag can act like that too. But overall if you compare all known hags there is clearly a pattern on how they interact with their audience. Also in something like Hololive which has a idol background, being a hag is an added value. Outside of niches, IRL idols are lucky if they're still in the industry when they hit their mid twenties. So seeing a somewhat regular woman in her mid thirties dance on stage and do her best in front of 100k people is something really special.
The thing about vtuber hags, is that you get all the positives, without any of the negative or IRL hags, not only are their heavily degraded looks masked by the avatar, a if you try to date older women, they tend to be ridded with boatloads of baggage. But a vtuber hag is just your entertainer that looks just as hot as the 20-something vtuber, and since interaction is limited to a chat on a 2-3h streams, all the negatives don't show themselves and you are only left with the positives. My favorite vtubers tend to be hags (Marine and Airi), but most likely I would never date an actual hag IRL (unless their personality is remotely as good as the perceived one of my Oshis, and that doesn't happen IRL), because not a single one I've met has ever been worth it. Their personalities are deeply rotten and damaged by their "experience" The charm of vtuber hags is the same as anime lolibabas, they look just as youthful, you only see them within contained timeframes where they ACT just as youthfull, which also lets them hide the baggae, and yet, have the maturity of personality that can be a positive in mature women. But notice how this doesn't happen with fleshtubers. Their looks have faded, if they were attractive women in their youth to be a streamer, chances are, they never had to develop a personality.
@@tumamaencosplay Weak mentality. The baggage, physical apparence and experience ARE the positive points. The way you talk about actual girls tells that no women in their thirties would ever give you the time of the day to being with.
@@jolynefanacount4326 If those are actually positive points, then how come the only realm where hags are actually desired and can remain competitive with young women is exactly the one where they can hide all those, like vtubing and anime? 😉 If all those were actually positives, you would not need anime avatars (that even the milfiest anime avatar, just look like a 20-something with lipstick, sometimes slightly thiccer on average, but overall only invoke the tropes of older women, like Office lady aesthetic, or mom aesthetic, not how old they actually look) hiding those to enjoy them. And yet, most female celebs and flesh e-celebs gradually lose relevancy the second their youthful looks begin to fade, with only very few exceptions. Gee, It's almost as if nobody actually cares about hags without masking all the negatives (or their immediate relevancy).
It's not necessarily all forbidden knowledge, though. Korone plays NES era games all the time and occasionally mentions that she played some of them when they first came out. Subaru and a bunch of other JP talents usually treat Mio like she's a generation older than them. Lui has that dignified vibe. Vesper keeps "forgetting" that he's officially younger than 30. It's not hard to figure out.
@@conspiracyspider Dude has two masters and a 3rd professional degree, along with high school teaching experience. He even mentioned on a zatsu that he used to stream on Justin tv before it became twitch. It's fairly obvious that he's definitely in his 30s.
It's literally about mental maturity. Someone like Rushia, though she's around the right age, doesn't qualify at all. Someone like Tenma, though she isn't in the age zone, does qualify. It just happens that 30 is a pretty good shorthand for when a person gains the right perspective on life to make them appealing in this way.
This community has ruined me because nothing gets me quite like a diamond more than the word "hag". Guess I should've seen it coming given that I adored /ss/ growing up.
To answer DN's question I like "hags" because they aren't girls... they are WOMEN. Younger girls can be immature, bratty, entitled and naive, however an older woman has more life experience, she is probably more jaded and aware of the world around her. Her physical appeal is likely worn out and she can't get things easily purely with her looks. She probably has had to deal with spirit crushing office jobs, past failed relationships or marriages, death of loved ones, financial struggles... The fact that they can still enjoy pretending being an anime girl on the internet playing games and laughing at silly jokes... It just brings out a certain beauty when a "past her prime" woman can enjoy herself in that way. Wouldn't you want to make her feel loved? Wanted? Validated? Desired? Accepted? Wouldn't you want to be the pair of arms in which she can be comforted? Schizo rant over.
@@Milkthrow I think this is why Sora's managed to find herself with an not insignificant fandom of hag lovers (to her extremely cute distress). She can't do the cute, innocent idol stuff she did at debut because she's just too cynical, damaged, and self aware these days, and she's been around so long that her relationship with her fans is a comfortable friendship. Her life and career have been slightly disappointing, but she's come to terms with it. It makes her feel both relatable, vulnerable and comfy, and her combination of well earned wisdom and the fact that she's still an immature pon monkey is fantastic gap moe.
And this is why I love Korone so much! She loves retro game so much and it shows. The idea that she's in her late 30's but is among the most energetic in Hololive is something to be proud of. Also she's arguably the #1 dancer when it comes in Hololive performance. The old dog can really dance!
It's the wisdom & honesty, really. All of the examples you showed have this quality. Marine, Lui, Nina... they know who they are, they know what they like, they know what they're passionate about, & they're not afraid to talk about it. They've had enough years & life experience to figure it out, while still being young enough to develop more. Koyori might be hotter on a superficial level, but Lui is hotter on both design & _vibes._
Pretty much. Also younger women can be hard to relate to. Also I've never heard anyone call them hags. I've heard baba though. And マリン was a baba way before she turned 30. She keeps referencing shit from the 90s
I appreciate hags just because I am in the same age group. I just find them more relatable, in a space _seemingly_ dominated by sub 30 year olds, fans and vtubers alike. That said, I don't go out of my way to look for forbidden knowledge, so there could even be vtubers who're around my age, yet I haven't picked up on it - though I'd be pleasantly surprised if that's the case. A lot of them just share similar frames of references as myself. Things like that are just validating. Edit: I wasn't aware of the term 'hag' within a vtuber context. I shall fully embrace it.
korone has let slip she played some nes games when they came out, so she isn't as young as her character is sometimes it's not looking or digging, but just listening
I like older women. So naturally, a hag is right up my alley. I also like more chill streams, so people like Nina are really cool to watch. Also, deep voice, really nice, cherry on top. It's that maturity that adds to the whole appeal, I can relate to being in a shit, soul-draining job, drinking myself to sleep, all that. It's about the full package really. HAGLOVE
to be a hagg you have to be older than 30. haggs are just ideal vtuber they are more intresting and more real than youger vtuber who tend to be in caracter, for exemple marine doesn't give a shit + hag have based views
I think they are the most chill out of them all the tropes because they are wiser to look past most of dramas and actual experiences to back what they say. If you ever seen senchou giving life advices to people you know what i am talking about. So it feels more comfy to be around these vtubers.
There's this touch of... bitterness, you know, with people who are past 30. Maybe bitterness isn't the right word. Cynism? This thing people who know that their prime is slowly passing have, this kind of somber but realistic acceptance.
The right word is probably "Mature". Hags just give off this mature allure that you can only get after having all your teenage and young adult dreams crushed by the real world and its uncompromising nature and therefore end up with this "I love what I love not matter what anyone else says because it brings me happiness" attitude and a down to earth personality. There's a reason most hags have worked at black companies or soulless desk jobs.
We've lived life, and seen a lot of ups and downs by then. A more positive way is as leafsan said I think, Mature. Not in 100% of course, no one is ever 100% advancing on every track of life at the moment, but that's something you also learn as you walk along the Path of Life. It's sort of as Corinthians said "When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put aside childish things.". People misinterpret this line a lot, it's not about throwing away your inner child. It's a parallagram to spiritual awakening, as well as physical - a child doesn't know or understand the ultimate bands of Life - true horror, and true joy. Likewise, a spiritual child doesn't know full well their connection to the Divine. It take blossoming into adulthood to become fully aware. It's an eternal journey. Yes, we've seen true sorrow, true horror, but more importantly, as you become older, you understand MORE what true joy, and true love is. Hope this kind of helps. We're not looking down on youngers. Its about the difference between knowing the path, and walking the path.💙
Anyone else here who were watching the "Talking about The Full Story of Selen's Termination | Dokibird Responds" vod and paused when Nousagi told us to search for the Hag video while talking about Nerissa?
Damn didn’t know Nousagi was legally blind and couldn’t see that Lui is literally SEEEEEEEEEEEGGGSS Anyway Hags rule and here’s why: - They feel realer. Most of them have this no bullshit attitude and aren’t really playing a character but are instead just themselves. - I have severe Mommy issues. - They‘re more mature and don’t feign the typical Seisoness, which enables them to openly talk about the things they are truly passionate about - They‘re wiser and other than very young vtubers often have warehouses full of experience NOT concerning vtubing (think Marines time in a black company) - They’re just cool. I mean just look at Korone and Marine the resident hags of Hololive and tell me there is a single person cooler than them. - Also I have severe Mommy issues. As in need for an actually Mother not a sexual Mommy Btw. what Archetype is Ollie? Aside from the Hags she and Enna Allouette are my favorites and I can’t quite put my finger on why that is.
I would say Ollie falls somewhere between the Heart and the Little Sister. That is, a very energetic Heart. As for Enna, I'd classify her as a Tomboy, but a specific subtype closer to that of a "goth girl" tomboy (like Kurokami) rather than a "I'm a girl too" tomboy (like Subaru), if you get what I mean.
HAAGGG!!!! We have to save their dried up womb!!! They want to have children and family (remind me of weekly 4chan thread about Lui feel sad while looking at family photobook with babies in it)
It's the power of Zatsudans and zatsudan-adjacent content. I guess being an older-fan biases me in this direction, to your point. A girl in her 20s vs a woman in her 30s. The conversational flow is just night and day. Case in point, I love having Nina's streams run in the background while I'm working & just listening to her talk, have a 1-on-1 collab conversation, or be enthusiastic about anything. It's the closest you can get to the satisfaction of ASMR without actually being an ASMR video. I would bet her morning talkshow episode with Amalee/Monarch is a comfort episode for hag lovers everywhere.
Being in my 30s myself, I simply relate more to vtubers who are 30+. I don't dislike younger vtubers, they can be charming, sweet, and talented; but when it comes to spending long zatsudans listening to a 20 year-old, they have such a different cultural frame of reference that it can be jarring--and, more often than not, it makes me feel painfully old and/or out of touch. Talents closer to my own age are more comfortable to listen to. In my experience older vtubers are more adept at navigating bumps in the road like internet drama, trolls, or issues in their private lives. They know how to set healthy boundaries and enforce them without being overbearing. They have the wisdom to know when to lean into their character and when to pump the brakes. They've learned the art of _subtlety._ With some vtubers I'm very _aware_ that I'm an audience member watching a performer, which is fine; but when I watch 'seasoned' talents it feels more like we're all in on the act _together._ Like they're performing with me--or at least, _for_ me--as opposed to performing *at* me. As you said, DN, so-called 'hags' exist in a kind of twilight zone that balances kayfabe with reality. It's a skill that can only come from experience, and most people don't have enough of that until they're at _least_ 30.
To answer that question my friend, it's as simple as "i want Mommy, i want Milk, i want to be Held and i want to be comforted". Older and mature women just gives out this energy that makes the "hags lover" turned into a baby. Myself included. Older women supremacy lol.
Hags are very good at talking, they are knowledgeable in various topics, they are hardworkers, they adore their fans, and most importantly, they are the epitome of womanhood 👌Every Hag should be loved and bre--uh, cared for. Btw, Lui-nee is indeed really attractive, but Koyo is pure seggs
Oh no . . . This made me realize . . . I think I'm a hag lover. (Korone is my oshi and I'm watching more Marine lately . . .) In my opinion (as a straight, older woman, mind you), I think the hags are easier to "relate" to in the least parasocial way. I feel like they are like my friends and/or the one person who just happens to make me laugh a lot at a convention or public gathering. I love the VTuber gimmicks but I feel like hags have less gimmicks most of the time Also . . . What's the male equivalent of a hag? Because this is exactly what Vesper's demographic is. He constantly mentions he farts dust and the community goes absolutely bonkers
Why do I like “hags”? Simple: I’m in my early 30s, and frankly, I appreciate how honest and lovely they are. Also, the motherly personalities really endear me to them. 💖
I didn't start to appreciate the older, more mature characters in anime until I was quite a bit older, after 25 maybe. I'm 30 now. I still love younger, cute vtubers too, but there's something great about the mature aura that hag vtubers can have. You can truly feel that they have a lot more life experience. This also creates some gap moe with the appearance of their model and when they act more cutesy. The more refined jokes and ways they interact with people is captivating.
Like you said, "Hag" could be seen as a rude, almost degrading term, but I'm so glad that the community turns it around into something endearing and supportive of older VTubers. I like it a lot.
Im glad you mentioned kayfabe, it really is like professional wrestling in that regards, ever since the fall of kayfabe and the start of the Attitude Era. Hag lovers are a form of smarks (smart mark), not meaning the negative stereotypes, but more along the lines of understanding there is the vtuber, and there is the person behind the vtuber. It's like professional wrestling now in that we actually have come to a weird sort of synthesis, where both the character and the person exist at the same time, and they kind of start blending into each other. The most powerful hags (and daddies) are the ones like the wrestler MJF, who so seamlessly blur that line between character and person you end up at this fascinating if slightly disturbing but really wonderful middle realm where you're not sure where one ends, and another begins. Basically, if you wanna understand hags and hag fandom, look at professional wrestling, esp the late late 90s and onwards.
Alright. I like this specific tag because the media/world effctively say that I will suck/no longer be seen as desirable after 30. So seeing someone succeed or kill it still feels good. It does leave me with a fantasy that I could leave a dead end career and actually have a job where I can smile/laugh sincerely.
God I love hags so much. Then again, it's not good to hate oneself! That's what's great about being a hag - you learn how boundless you can spread love.💙
I'm of the camp who identifies hags because of their perceived maturity rather than age strictly. For example, even if Marine and Korone are around the same age (not sure if that's the case), I would never consider Korone a hag while Marine definitely is. I love Korone for how funny and adorable she is, I love Marine for how open and genuinely wise she is (and also horny). And that's a slightly different appeal than a mommy too. While Fauna might have the softness and warmth of a mommy, she doesn't show the life experience usually gained with older age. For a vtuber who is both a mommy and a hag, someone like Nina comes to mind. Regardless, much love to all types of hags!
Its also how they carry themselves. And yes Korone is actually on the upper tier age wise in Holo, along with Botan, but you wouldnt know with how she acts. MARINE, on the other hand, yeah there's no mistaking her age at all, as she acts this way even in how she speaks.
Christmas Cakes are the best. They tend to underestimate their interests and experiences that ultimately offer a smoother but still strong experience for fans as they slowly grow into the role and realize not only the appeal of what they play/work on and talk about but the general chill comfort experienced mutually as they realize "Getting older isnt as bad as it sounds" and "people value relatability/being genuine just as much as being cute/funny". Also yes, mommy issues do make also people want a older woman to look up comfort wise to as the inverse does for older men regardless of how far either goes in the "issues" department for causes and effects.
I have an immense respect for people who work as Vtubers, especially in agencies with lots of co-workers, where they're noticeably older than most of their peers. It probably isn't easy, with how potentially lonely it could feel, having different interests that just don't really align since they're so intrinsically connected to when they were born. They still pull through in spite of that. And they're usually very chill, know exactly how far to go with jokes, and their experiences of the world often reflect in their vibe as well. They know their fans since they've had more life experience meeting people than most of their peers. And, in spite of me being only 23, it feels like I can be there with them in the "mentally-too-old-for-this-shit" crowd, calmly chuckling at the antics of the youngsters around them.
Hag love, because... I can actually relate to and understand them, they're playing and watching along with game and movies I knew, loved, and grew up with, they're calling back to cultural touchstones that I was there for and understand, they're speaking the same slang that I knew. I will freely admit I am a lonely and isolated man, but it feels like a friend at work you chat with to while away the hours on shift.
I love that, at least for some anyway, they don't have to pretend to be so grown up all the time. the knowledge and experience bleeding through into the all the fun they have. it's just nice
Hags are in demand! 😋 But seriously, if you just listen to conversations with Marine or Nina, you know how much more interesting they are as persons. And Mama Mio... Well... She's just beyond blessed, and also sexy in the most mature way possible.
I’m 33 years old. I prefer women over 30, at least in mental age. I want somebody mature enough to understand adult concepts: taxes, legislations, parental obligations, retirement, etc. it’s nice to feel lustful, but more meaningful to feel a sense of mature understanding. Or maybe it’s cuz I have autism
I believe it's also largely due to relatability. Like you said with how the fans may also be in the similar age range as their oshi means that they likely would share generational experience similar to them. An easy example that I could think of is how Korone has a good amount of game history knowledge and plays alot of retro games, so people who also played games of that era might chime into their streams more often than other streams.
I agree with DN’s take on Koyori. Lui’s sexiness is toned down by her extremely mature and responsible elder sister vibe while Koyori gets a boost from her cockiness and the ability to both bully and be bullied. (Dude… she has the most punchable smug face in the whole cast) These traits of Koyori may be shared with Pekora, but Pekora is not sexy just because of her mischievous little sister vibe. (She’s also too funny to be considered sexy) Koyori, on the other hand, seems more like a friend than someone in your family, therefore she’s more lewdable and sexier than the sisters. Also… the belly button that you can hardly see behind her tie is a big plus.
Lol, so that means until her birthday last year in December Marine wasn't an "offical Vtuber hag" yet but has already been treated like one for years. XD
Hags with all their experience provide deep profound life advice. Marine is a perfect example of this, even before she crossed from cake to hag, she'll joke around with chat and then respond to something profoundly.
I like hags because I am one 😂 that and there's comfort in seeing people in "younger, trendy" spaces that I'm interested in that are the same age. Plus, they tend to make clippable content during zatsudans at a higher rate than younger folks.
A) I didnt realize being my age made me an older vtuber lol. I just figured nobody really knows whos behind the model. B) You made me feel very good about being called a Hag and trying this streaming thing when the inspiration struck me.
Funnily enough there's a bunch of Vtubers all around other tropes that is pretty safe to say is in late 20's almost hitting 30's, if not already there. Calli and Kronii and weirdly enough, Gura, are solid examples that I can think,
To me, hag appeal has to do with the mentality one acquires reaching the 30s. We kinda start... Being less idealistic, we lose the drive for the aspirations we had in our teens/early adulthood, and that drives us to slow down and take things easier. Also, we accrued enough life experience to have interesting stories of our past to ramble about. Take Marine for example. A lot of clips of her were Marine rambling about her past, and those stories feel pretty relatable to a lot of us, mainly since we can empathize with her and have an idea what she went through up until that stream. It's a very warm feel of listening to someone our age open up to us (yeah I'm 31, a geezer). At least that's what I feel about Marine and even Matara
I'm 25. My absolute favorite holos are Marine and OkaKoro. Recently I also got into Lui. It certainly isn't about their looks, as I don't find Marine's sexyness "distracting" me. At the same time, her shenanigans trying to be sexy and acting young are hilarious. For all of them, I just... vibe. Most certainly has something to do with their personalities, but I can't point out what it is. I just love watching them. And you as well, Mr. Nousagi. Maybe I'm into smart people?
Alright you shits, this is why I love Nina Kosaka. I feel tremendously SAFE watching and listening to her. And I don't mean safe from attack or something, but safe from judgement. I see an older woman confident and secure in who she is and it tells me 'I can be confident and secure in who I am". I can let myself relax and lower my defenses just by listening to her soothing and disarming voice. And as a single man in his mid thirties with a lot of personal and financial problems, that sense of peace is one hell of an aphrodisiac. I don't fantasise about bending her over every piece of furniture in my house and railing her like some animal, I fantasise about the quiet moments. Discussing what shade of blue to paint the Bathroom, determining who needs the car more on what day, doing the dishes together as we continue our dinner conversation. She isn't some mommy that I thrist for, she represents someone that completes me!!
Saplings are like "MOOOOMMMY, GIVE ME A HEALING HANDJOB UUUUUUUUUUUU". But as a Chad Nina enjoyer I say "Kids are finally asleep, let's pour a glass of wine and watch Netflix"
@@YourTypicalMental I totally get you. People in their 20s fantasize about having sex with hags because of mommy issues. I'm in my mid 30s as well as you and I love hags because they are more relatable. I feel like I can speak with them and have fun in a more mature way. You are not alone brother 🤝
I have no idea if Tenma Maemi is an actual hag or not (though there are several hints that suggest she is), but the reason I love her so much is because watching older people is kinda more comfortable and fun for me. Even as a kid, I preferred to talk with older people rather than with people of my own age, so I guess that kinda rubbed off on me even as an adult. It's just fun to watch an adult who is confident, mature, decisive yet knows how to act in a way that's funny. I also feel no sexual feelings regarding this trope, though that's likely because the only hag I actually follow is Tenma.
I'm 29 years old and I very much love older women, have for a long time. They're just more relatable personally to me, plus as someone on the spectrum, we tend to get along better with older people than people of our age group. Marine is my main favorite but I also like Lui. Nerissa also hits too pretty well.
There is a term for this in wrestling wherein the fan buys into the character but knows the background of person behind the character. This is called smark, combined smart (knows the background) and mark (buys into the kayfaybe)
As someone in his early-mid 30's... It's mostly just that they're more relatable. Nothing really too deep there, to be entirely honest. I can go into Nerissa Ravencroft, or Randon's stream and just say 'hey, remember when Pogs were a popular toy everybody collected?' or 'remember the Beanie Baby craze?' and be secure in their sudden emotional reaction to being reminded of events that took place before their coworkers were even alive.
To me people under 28ish years old just feel like kids, sure sometimes that's not the case. You also tend to see older streamers be very good at just talking with their chats and being constantly interesting.
I'm really mixed. I like the realistic hot takes from people who genuinely knows what they are talking about, along with the interesting stories collected over the years. However, I enjoy VTubers for the Manic Pixie Dream Girl vibes from a younger and more energetic individual.
Seeing this community call women "hag" as a sign of ultimate respect made me cry. I worry about my age and guys calling me old even though 30 is still young. But hags are also a reminder that life doesn't end at 30. You can achieve your dreams and be happy as you hit your real adulthood. Not to mention, hearing people online women 30+ makes me feel better about myself. Also because like. They tend to have their heads on their shoulders better and they don't do stupid shit as much. Which makes sense like. It's not just a meme, your brain finally finishes developing at around 24-25. I have a lot of respect for them.
Mature vtubers have the experience and variety advantage: if a streaming service (say Netflix or Hulu, etc) has more movies/series available then there is a higher chance you will find something u like. They have a broader perspective on life than younger streamers, this generally translates to better advice on real life topics that you can relate to and apply to your daily life. Plus, the fact they have a better perspective means they don't make a big deal out of dumb/small things and so they are more pragmatic. This is more of a personal thing but more life experience means more wisdom in general and that is attractive, wisdom in various topics may I add. I also think that because mature streamers attract more mature audiences, there is overall a more responsible fandom behind it meaning less para social and harassment problems. Lastly that grey part you talked about Vtubing(mixing the character with the real person behind it) works with mature people because the audience usually wants to know more about her real life topics than her streaming or gaming skills compared to younger streamers PD: I tend to enjoy when mature streamers make more of a personal stream where they talk in general, not play anything. That sort of podcast feeling where the host has this kind of mentor feeling due to her life experiences, perspectives and even funny stories to tell.
I like hags because of their maturity and confidence. They have a kayfabe,of course, But that kayfabe simply ADDS to who they are rather than define their character. They are also tend to be more chill than other vtubers, showing a great deal of patience and emotional stability when dealing with stressful or scary situations. Their adult appearance,along with their natural adult voice and decomplexed way of talking about most topics, some even talking about their life openly (like vexoria for example) just makes them based. It's appealing to a man who's disillusionned with younger women and never saw the appeal in them. They're genuinely funny,witty and entertaining. Like marine for example. Of course,the horny plays a part too, but it would also apply to younger Vtubers like suisei. It's only when it's complimented by the rest that it gives it that unique flavor.
The way I would describe the relationship between haglovers and kafabe is that a haglover admires the actress's ability and their performance just as much as the character themselves. Like, to use an accessible comparison, it's like being a fan of Matthew Mercer. When Matt voices a character you enjoy his performance in that role, you recognize his ability as a performer to suspend your disbelief. You, at all times, know the character is a fiction. But that isn't a hinderance. You accept the character as the character, and the performer as the performer conjointly during the performance. I'd compare it being a fan of David Bowie, Daft Punk, or The Gorillaz. You know the performance you're seeing isn't reality. But what you know about the reality of the performance you're seeing enhances the appreciation of it. It is, however, a love predicated on "forebidden" knowledge. Like, it's a well kept secret a certain long time Vshojo cast member is a hag IRL, but her character is not. She *very* much doesn't like that personal information, as harmless as it is, to be known. So, in respect for that, long times fans of her enjoy her performance from the boxed seats, where we talk about the old days and how it's really nice to see how far our favorite wannabe anime girl has come.
For me it's mostly just relatability. I'm 30, and my taste in Vtubers skews towards people I have shared interests with. The odds go way up if they're closer to my age that we like similar things. That's why my favorite StarsEN, for example, are Vesper (formerly) and Shinri (currently).
I just always liked people in their 30s (or at the very least people that seem mature) I can rarely relate to people who are within my age group and often liked having conversations with people older than me more (I must have been quite annoying)
It's simple for me. I am 34. I relate a lot more to someone like Nina. It's not to say I can't enjoy other vtubers (Bae is a full zoomer and still one of my favorites), but its so much easier for me to get invested if I feel like this person is my contemporary peer, rather then someone 10 years younger. The benefit of that age is also the wisdom and grace that experience gives someone. Think about how most of Niji treat their fanbase. I dont think any are mean per se, maybe a few joke bits. But Nina was always so so appreciative of the fans, calling them Honey from day 1 in a smooth affirming voice. That comes from experience and knowing your fanbase makes you in this entertainment field. Also, like others said, the older women might not have the perky looks of a young 20 year old, but they make up for it with maturity and drive. They know what they like and are unashamed to say it. That confidence is sexy.
I'm almost 29 with a career, and I find vtubers who're in the same age range as I can relate to them a lot more. Also, in my experience, women become funnier as they age.
Is the Lolibaba (Tenma from Phase Connect f.e.) a subtype of hag or something different, because I think Tenma isn't 30 yet (I think). And what about Shiina (also Phase Connect) lovingly refered to as Meemaw, also not 30?
Well, as DN said in the video, they at least must be 30s IRL no matter what their base character is. They can be chilidsh, kosogaki, little sister type, etc... but hags always be hags...
Marine and Nina fire up my neurons, might be because I am old :D Edit: I do not like hags because i imagine saggy body parts. Its the way they pronounce words, the kind of words that they use. the whole vibe they give off just feels better. Germlins like amelia and finana are plenty enjoyable, too. But I guess I feel "most at home" with older vtubers.
"A woman's sexual peak is actually in their 30's"
We have science on our side.
agreed
Hentxi plots making a lot of sense now
It's bullshit but I still love my hags.
"But women's pussy is only good from 18 to 29" Patrice O'neil. lol
Sencho is eternal and so will a hag Gura.
Well at least i learned something today.
"a women sexuality peak is in there 30s"
The milf hentxi plot making a lot of sense now
Always has been
Zatsus are their best streams. They can lead perfect conversation. People who can really "walk the walk" with tons of experience. People who can really go deep with conversation.
This they have more niche weeb knowledge too due to them being “of age”
As a younger woman, hags seem so inspiring. There's always been this stigma that women can't have fun or enjoy things once they're old enough. Seeing vtubers still indulge in their interests and be unafraid regardless of their age motivates me a lot with my own goals in life.
In a society that chases youth and being young, it's a pleasant change!
They're living proof it doesn't all end! You can walk life more comfortably knowing that, may you feel inspired!
Eeeeh Look, I like hag vtubers too, my favorites are literally Airi and Marine, but that doesn't translate to IRL as well.
Being a vtuber masks all the negatives of being a hag (not just looks), and leaves you with mostly only the positives, that's why they end up being popular.
This is not society discovering Hags are great, this is people basically agreeing taht if Lolibabas (eternally young and youthfull, and yet experienced and mature) were a real thing, they would be extremely desirable.
I don't know who told you that, but they were fucking lying. I've seen so many moms get depressed after their children grow up and leave because they feel like they've lost their purpose in life. That's wrong. You just left a phase of your life behind and entered a new one with new opportunities and options that weren't available before. People used to knows this before feminism. A woman's life "begins" after motherhood (especially if she has a loving and supportive husband who has spent the past two decades building a stable career). The idea that women need to get their degrees and careers in place now while they're young is the dumbest but also most insidious lie ever whispered in somebody's ear. A woman over forty with several adult children under her belt is and will always be FAR more respected in the business world and "world of men" than some young thing fresh out of university thinking she is going to change the world (she isn't).
As a man it both hurts and somewhat amuses me to see young women foolishly trying to cash in on a privilege rightfully restricted to older, post-motherhood women early and putting off the usage of the privilege rightfully restricted (by Nature) to younger women. They think they can have both things their way but they end up with neither thing in the end. Their career fails inevitably and they find out freezing their eggs isn't as viable as they were told/believed.
Men are only capable of respecting older women, and mothers in particular, because mothers (especially those who have had boys) are usually actually capable of empathizing with men while younger women are not (no you don't understand men just because you know what makes them horny, try again.) So it makes sense that younger women without kids in business aren't respected while older women with kids breaking into business absolutely are (I mean, Margret Thatcher anyone?) unless they prove themselves unworthy of men's respect through their behavior. You cannot cheat Death and Nature ladies. So while you wait to hit your "Career" phase of life, why not have some kids to get that personal growth in along the way so you can come out swinging in Phase 2 of your life?
@@StarboyXL9 you mean “empty nest syndrome” that parents talk about? I mean it shouldn’t be that surprising that parents struggle to find themselves after spending so long mentally, physically and emotionally caring for a child. That’s why parents tell you that having a child isn’t something to rush into.
I wouldn’t say that kids automatically generates respect out in the world, just like how not having kids doesn’t. It’s all more based on your mindset and reasonings for either lifestyle.
When you say privilege, are you referring to hobbies? Personally I don’t think that should be locked behind having to be a certain age. We all naturally seek to learn and develop skills from the day we’re both to the day we die, why deprive anyone the chance?
@@tumamaencosplay that’s a pretty good point, I can imagine just like its easier to talk about the honest truths of being in that age range, it’s probably just as easy to sugar coat and stretch truths. I think it just ends up depending on the person behind the vtuber.
Hags are great because, having more life experience, they generally don't take things for granted and are very appreciative of their fans.
Of course it's not an absolute rule it still depends of the chuuba's personality. Also non hag can act like that too. But overall if you compare all known hags there is clearly a pattern on how they interact with their audience.
Also in something like Hololive which has a idol background, being a hag is an added value.
Outside of niches, IRL idols are lucky if they're still in the industry when they hit their mid twenties. So seeing a somewhat regular woman in her mid thirties dance on stage and do her best in front of 100k people is something really special.
I 100% agree. Man... This comment section is really making my undying love for hags feel so validated.
I've found my people.
The thing about vtuber hags, is that you get all the positives, without any of the negative or IRL hags, not only are their heavily degraded looks masked by the avatar, a if you try to date older women, they tend to be ridded with boatloads of baggage.
But a vtuber hag is just your entertainer that looks just as hot as the 20-something vtuber, and since interaction is limited to a chat on a 2-3h streams, all the negatives don't show themselves and you are only left with the positives.
My favorite vtubers tend to be hags (Marine and Airi), but most likely I would never date an actual hag IRL (unless their personality is remotely as good as the perceived one of my Oshis, and that doesn't happen IRL), because not a single one I've met has ever been worth it. Their personalities are deeply rotten and damaged by their "experience"
The charm of vtuber hags is the same as anime lolibabas, they look just as youthful, you only see them within contained timeframes where they ACT just as youthfull, which also lets them hide the baggae, and yet, have the maturity of personality that can be a positive in mature women.
But notice how this doesn't happen with fleshtubers. Their looks have faded, if they were attractive women in their youth to be a streamer, chances are, they never had to develop a personality.
@@tumamaencosplay Weak mentality. The baggage, physical apparence and experience ARE the positive points.
The way you talk about actual girls tells that no women in their thirties would ever give you the time of the day to being with.
@@jolynefanacount4326 If those are actually positive points, then how come the only realm where hags are actually desired and can remain competitive with young women is exactly the one where they can hide all those, like vtubing and anime? 😉
If all those were actually positives, you would not need anime avatars (that even the milfiest anime avatar, just look like a 20-something with lipstick, sometimes slightly thiccer on average, but overall only invoke the tropes of older women, like Office lady aesthetic, or mom aesthetic, not how old they actually look) hiding those to enjoy them.
And yet, most female celebs and flesh e-celebs gradually lose relevancy the second their youthful looks begin to fade, with only very few exceptions.
Gee, It's almost as if nobody actually cares about hags without masking all the negatives (or their immediate relevancy).
@@tumamaencosplay Bro never heard of MILFS and cougars 💀
It's not necessarily all forbidden knowledge, though. Korone plays NES era games all the time and occasionally mentions that she played some of them when they first came out. Subaru and a bunch of other JP talents usually treat Mio like she's a generation older than them. Lui has that dignified vibe. Vesper keeps "forgetting" that he's officially younger than 30. It's not hard to figure out.
Wait are you telling me shinri is older than vesper?
Wait. Korone is older than myself? Not bad.
@@conspiracyspider Dude has two masters and a 3rd professional degree, along with high school teaching experience. He even mentioned on a zatsu that he used to stream on Justin tv before it became twitch. It's fairly obvious that he's definitely in his 30s.
@@patx35to be honest, Vesper has a lot of experiences or things he remembers that's put him near my age.. Which pushes him closer to 40 than 30 😅
Wait, did you just call Vesper a hag? Vesper isn't a hag, he is just gramps.
Shades were thrown in this video lmao
It's literally about mental maturity. Someone like Rushia, though she's around the right age, doesn't qualify at all. Someone like Tenma, though she isn't in the age zone, does qualify. It just happens that 30 is a pretty good shorthand for when a person gains the right perspective on life to make them appealing in this way.
This community has ruined me because nothing gets me quite like a diamond more than the word "hag".
Guess I should've seen it coming given that I adored /ss/ growing up.
To answer DN's question I like "hags" because they aren't girls... they are WOMEN.
Younger girls can be immature, bratty, entitled and naive, however an older woman has more life experience, she is probably more jaded and aware of the world around her. Her physical appeal is likely worn out and she can't get things easily purely with her looks. She probably has had to deal with spirit crushing office jobs, past failed relationships or marriages, death of loved ones, financial struggles... The fact that they can still enjoy pretending being an anime girl on the internet playing games and laughing at silly jokes... It just brings out a certain beauty when a "past her prime" woman can enjoy herself in that way.
Wouldn't you want to make her feel loved? Wanted? Validated? Desired? Accepted? Wouldn't you want to be the pair of arms in which she can be comforted? Schizo rant over.
@@MilkthrowThis is a perfect explanation on this bro, amazing rant
Hag Love
@@hannana.4319 I know it's cringy but it came from the heart (and my pp too tbh)
Let's love those hags, brother 💪
your based is imeasurable
@@Milkthrow I think this is why Sora's managed to find herself with an not insignificant fandom of hag lovers (to her extremely cute distress). She can't do the cute, innocent idol stuff she did at debut because she's just too cynical, damaged, and self aware these days, and she's been around so long that her relationship with her fans is a comfortable friendship. Her life and career have been slightly disappointing, but she's come to terms with it.
It makes her feel both relatable, vulnerable and comfy, and her combination of well earned wisdom and the fact that she's still an immature pon monkey is fantastic gap moe.
And then there's Vesper, granpire, who is just as loved. So I guess it works both ways.
And this is why I love Korone so much! She loves retro game so much and it shows. The idea that she's in her late 30's but is among the most energetic in Hololive is something to be proud of. Also she's arguably the #1 dancer when it comes in Hololive performance. The old dog can really dance!
We be appreciating hags today, I tip my hat
Edit: o7 in the replies
I'm so proud of the progress we Hag Lovers have made in these recent years
Salute
o7
o7
o7
It's the wisdom & honesty, really.
All of the examples you showed have this quality. Marine, Lui, Nina... they know who they are, they know what they like, they know what they're passionate about, & they're not afraid to talk about it. They've had enough years & life experience to figure it out, while still being young enough to develop more.
Koyori might be hotter on a superficial level, but Lui is hotter on both design & _vibes._
Pretty much. Also younger women can be hard to relate to. Also I've never heard anyone call them hags. I've heard baba though. And マリン was a baba way before she turned 30. She keeps referencing shit from the 90s
100% agree. Koyori simply LOOKS hotter, but Lui IS hotter. There's a difference there.
I remember that Koyori is actually older than Marine…
But yes, this fact make me love her more.
To me knowing they are older just give me a kind of assurance and I feel more comfortable.
I appreciate hags just because I am in the same age group. I just find them more relatable, in a space _seemingly_ dominated by sub 30 year olds, fans and vtubers alike.
That said, I don't go out of my way to look for forbidden knowledge, so there could even be vtubers who're around my age, yet I haven't picked up on it - though I'd be pleasantly surprised if that's the case.
A lot of them just share similar frames of references as myself. Things like that are just validating.
Edit: I wasn't aware of the term 'hag' within a vtuber context. I shall fully embrace it.
korone has let slip she played some nes games when they came out, so she isn't as young as her character is
sometimes it's not looking or digging, but just listening
@@Sillimant_ Yeah and Korone was my introduction to VTubing, yet I still found it surprising as I put those pieces together.
I like older women. So naturally, a hag is right up my alley. I also like more chill streams, so people like Nina are really cool to watch. Also, deep voice, really nice, cherry on top. It's that maturity that adds to the whole appeal, I can relate to being in a shit, soul-draining job, drinking myself to sleep, all that. It's about the full package really. HAGLOVE
to be a hagg you have to be older than 30. haggs are just ideal vtuber they are more intresting and more real than youger vtuber who tend to be in caracter, for exemple marine doesn't give a shit + hag have based views
Haggg*
I think they are the most chill out of them all the tropes because they are wiser to look past most of dramas and actual experiences to back what they say. If you ever seen senchou giving life advices to people you know what i am talking about. So it feels more comfy to be around these vtubers.
There's this touch of... bitterness, you know, with people who are past 30.
Maybe bitterness isn't the right word. Cynism? This thing people who know that their prime is slowly passing have, this kind of somber but realistic acceptance.
The right word is probably "Mature". Hags just give off this mature allure that you can only get after having all your teenage and young adult dreams crushed by the real world and its uncompromising nature and therefore end up with this "I love what I love not matter what anyone else says because it brings me happiness" attitude and a down to earth personality. There's a reason most hags have worked at black companies or soulless desk jobs.
We've lived life, and seen a lot of ups and downs by then. A more positive way is as leafsan said I think, Mature. Not in 100% of course, no one is ever 100% advancing on every track of life at the moment, but that's something you also learn as you walk along the Path of Life. It's sort of as Corinthians said "When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put aside childish things.". People misinterpret this line a lot, it's not about throwing away your inner child. It's a parallagram to spiritual awakening, as well as physical - a child doesn't know or understand the ultimate bands of Life - true horror, and true joy. Likewise, a spiritual child doesn't know full well their connection to the Divine. It take blossoming into adulthood to become fully aware. It's an eternal journey. Yes, we've seen true sorrow, true horror, but more importantly, as you become older, you understand MORE what true joy, and true love is. Hope this kind of helps. We're not looking down on youngers. Its about the difference between knowing the path, and walking the path.💙
Anyone else here who were watching the "Talking about The Full Story of Selen's Termination | Dokibird Responds" vod and paused when Nousagi told us to search for the Hag video while talking about Nerissa?
Damn didn’t know Nousagi was legally blind and couldn’t see that Lui is literally SEEEEEEEEEEEGGGSS
Anyway Hags rule and here’s why:
- They feel realer. Most of them have this no bullshit attitude and aren’t really playing a character but are instead just themselves.
- I have severe Mommy issues.
- They‘re more mature and don’t feign the typical Seisoness, which enables them to openly talk about the things they are truly passionate about
- They‘re wiser and other than very young vtubers often have warehouses full of experience NOT concerning vtubing (think Marines time in a black company)
- They’re just cool.
I mean just look at Korone and Marine the resident hags of Hololive and tell me there is a single person cooler than them.
- Also I have severe Mommy issues. As in need for an actually Mother not a sexual Mommy
Btw. what Archetype is Ollie?
Aside from the Hags she and Enna Allouette are my favorites and I can’t quite put my finger on why that is.
I can't copy this comment, but this, same for me :3
_second point is severe mommy issues_
Yep thats checks out lmao
Ollie definitely heart
I would say Ollie falls somewhere between the Heart and the Little Sister. That is, a very energetic Heart.
As for Enna, I'd classify her as a Tomboy, but a specific subtype closer to that of a "goth girl" tomboy (like Kurokami) rather than a "I'm a girl too" tomboy (like Subaru), if you get what I mean.
@@BlaZay yeah that sounds reasonable.
HAAGGG!!!! We have to save their dried up womb!!! They want to have children and family (remind me of weekly 4chan thread about Lui feel sad while looking at family photobook with babies in it)
Based hagsaver
I dissapointed of DN by not highlighting my ID oshi on the reels, the truest hag of hag, Aunty Reine...
It's the power of Zatsudans and zatsudan-adjacent content. I guess being an older-fan biases me in this direction, to your point.
A girl in her 20s vs a woman in her 30s. The conversational flow is just night and day.
Case in point, I love having Nina's streams run in the background while I'm working & just listening to her talk, have a 1-on-1 collab conversation, or be enthusiastic about anything. It's the closest you can get to the satisfaction of ASMR without actually being an ASMR video.
I would bet her morning talkshow episode with Amalee/Monarch is a comfort episode for hag lovers everywhere.
Being in my 30s myself, I simply relate more to vtubers who are 30+. I don't dislike younger vtubers, they can be charming, sweet, and talented; but when it comes to spending long zatsudans listening to a 20 year-old, they have such a different cultural frame of reference that it can be jarring--and, more often than not, it makes me feel painfully old and/or out of touch. Talents closer to my own age are more comfortable to listen to.
In my experience older vtubers are more adept at navigating bumps in the road like internet drama, trolls, or issues in their private lives. They know how to set healthy boundaries and enforce them without being overbearing. They have the wisdom to know when to lean into their character and when to pump the brakes. They've learned the art of _subtlety._
With some vtubers I'm very _aware_ that I'm an audience member watching a performer, which is fine; but when I watch 'seasoned' talents it feels more like we're all in on the act _together._ Like they're performing with me--or at least, _for_ me--as opposed to performing *at* me. As you said, DN, so-called 'hags' exist in a kind of twilight zone that balances kayfabe with reality. It's a skill that can only come from experience, and most people don't have enough of that until they're at _least_ 30.
uhm excuse me!!
Marine isn't a Hag
she's like 17...
Season 46
part 5.2
Name checks out, I laughed.
Didn't know Char Aznable is a Marine sim- oh shit *SENCHŌ IS RED!*
I'm in my 30s so i lean more toward hags
To answer that question my friend, it's as simple as "i want Mommy, i want Milk, i want to be Held and i want to be comforted". Older and mature women just gives out this energy that makes the "hags lover" turned into a baby. Myself included. Older women supremacy lol.
Hags are very good at talking, they are knowledgeable in various topics, they are hardworkers, they adore their fans, and most importantly, they are the epitome of womanhood 👌Every Hag should be loved and bre--uh, cared for.
Btw, Lui-nee is indeed really attractive, but Koyo is pure seggs
Mega based. Agreed.
Nousagi: I'm only 21.
Me, a 30-year old: *bones turn to ash*
i do like older streamers, never called them hags before tho, but thats just because am older myzelf
Even with our differences in taste I’m pretty sure we can all collectively agree that the true ideal “type” of girl is obviously…
*Yagoo.*
I agree but with a different person: speedwagon
@@bellingtoned Isn't Speedwagon just Yagoo's VTuber model?
@@Garpii wait hes a British oil baron who went on a vampire killing adventure twice and has been supporting the main characters ?
@@bellingtoned Yes, he's that based
But both Yagoo and Speedwagon are Hags
honestly i see hags in this context as " somebody some body PLEASE take this women already otherwise that person is gonna be me "
H.A.G.
Hardly
Aged
Gal
Probably one of your (unintentionally) funniest videos you've done in trying to stay so seiso
Oh no . . . This made me realize . . . I think I'm a hag lover. (Korone is my oshi and I'm watching more Marine lately . . .)
In my opinion (as a straight, older woman, mind you), I think the hags are easier to "relate" to in the least parasocial way. I feel like they are like my friends and/or the one person who just happens to make me laugh a lot at a convention or public gathering. I love the VTuber gimmicks but I feel like hags have less gimmicks most of the time
Also . . . What's the male equivalent of a hag? Because this is exactly what Vesper's demographic is. He constantly mentions he farts dust and the community goes absolutely bonkers
Vesper is the cool uncle everyone wishes they had. That's his thing.
Why do I like “hags”? Simple: I’m in my early 30s, and frankly, I appreciate how honest and lovely they are. Also, the motherly personalities really endear me to them. 💖
DN knew what he was doing with that thumbnail
Marinebros are almost as horny as she is.
Reminder that Michael Cat, even in her 30s, is not a HAG. She is a menhera became human
I didn't start to appreciate the older, more mature characters in anime until I was quite a bit older, after 25 maybe. I'm 30 now.
I still love younger, cute vtubers too, but there's something great about the mature aura that hag vtubers can have.
You can truly feel that they have a lot more life experience. This also creates some gap moe with the appearance of their model and when they act more cutesy.
The more refined jokes and ways they interact with people is captivating.
Like you said, "Hag" could be seen as a rude, almost degrading term, but I'm so glad that the community turns it around into something endearing and supportive of older VTubers. I like it a lot.
I do love me some hags. Them mature vtubers hit different. All must succumb to hagdom or graduate. Its their choice m
I love Mio and wish nothing but happiness for her. She's really comfortable to watch and listen to❤
Man.. I love Fridays.
It’s always Friday in some other parallel universe
Im glad you mentioned kayfabe, it really is like professional wrestling in that regards, ever since the fall of kayfabe and the start of the Attitude Era. Hag lovers are a form of smarks (smart mark), not meaning the negative stereotypes, but more along the lines of understanding there is the vtuber, and there is the person behind the vtuber. It's like professional wrestling now in that we actually have come to a weird sort of synthesis, where both the character and the person exist at the same time, and they kind of start blending into each other. The most powerful hags (and daddies) are the ones like the wrestler MJF, who so seamlessly blur that line between character and person you end up at this fascinating if slightly disturbing but really wonderful middle realm where you're not sure where one ends, and another begins.
Basically, if you wanna understand hags and hag fandom, look at professional wrestling, esp the late late 90s and onwards.
Alright. I like this specific tag because the media/world effctively say that I will suck/no longer be seen as desirable after 30. So seeing someone succeed or kill it still feels good. It does leave me with a fantasy that I could leave a dead end career and actually have a job where I can smile/laugh sincerely.
God I love hags so much.
Then again, it's not good to hate oneself! That's what's great about being a hag - you learn how boundless you can spread love.💙
I'm of the camp who identifies hags because of their perceived maturity rather than age strictly. For example, even if Marine and Korone are around the same age (not sure if that's the case), I would never consider Korone a hag while Marine definitely is. I love Korone for how funny and adorable she is, I love Marine for how open and genuinely wise she is (and also horny).
And that's a slightly different appeal than a mommy too. While Fauna might have the softness and warmth of a mommy, she doesn't show the life experience usually gained with older age. For a vtuber who is both a mommy and a hag, someone like Nina comes to mind.
Regardless, much love to all types of hags!
Its also how they carry themselves. And yes Korone is actually on the upper tier age wise in Holo, along with Botan, but you wouldnt know with how she acts.
MARINE, on the other hand, yeah there's no mistaking her age at all, as she acts this way even in how she speaks.
Christmas Cakes are the best. They tend to underestimate their interests and experiences that ultimately offer a smoother but still strong experience for fans as they slowly grow into the role and realize not only the appeal of what they play/work on and talk about but the general chill comfort experienced mutually as they realize "Getting older isnt as bad as it sounds" and "people value relatability/being genuine just as much as being cute/funny".
Also yes, mommy issues do make also people want a older woman to look up comfort wise to as the inverse does for older men regardless of how far either goes in the "issues" department for causes and effects.
I have an immense respect for people who work as Vtubers, especially in agencies with lots of co-workers, where they're noticeably older than most of their peers. It probably isn't easy, with how potentially lonely it could feel, having different interests that just don't really align since they're so intrinsically connected to when they were born. They still pull through in spite of that.
And they're usually very chill, know exactly how far to go with jokes, and their experiences of the world often reflect in their vibe as well. They know their fans since they've had more life experience meeting people than most of their peers. And, in spite of me being only 23, it feels like I can be there with them in the "mentally-too-old-for-this-shit" crowd, calmly chuckling at the antics of the youngsters around them.
DN please do a niji design tier list AND YOU BETTER PUT NINA IN S TIER)
*HAG LOVE!*
*HAG LOVE!*
Hag love, because...
I can actually relate to and understand them, they're playing and watching along with game and movies I knew, loved, and grew up with, they're calling back to cultural touchstones that I was there for and understand, they're speaking the same slang that I knew. I will freely admit I am a lonely and isolated man, but it feels like a friend at work you chat with to while away the hours on shift.
I love that, at least for some anyway, they don't have to pretend to be so grown up all the time. the knowledge and experience bleeding through into the all the fun they have. it's just nice
Hags are in demand! 😋
But seriously, if you just listen to conversations with Marine or Nina, you know how much more interesting they are as persons.
And Mama Mio... Well... She's just beyond blessed, and also sexy in the most mature way possible.
I’m 33 years old. I prefer women over 30, at least in mental age. I want somebody mature enough to understand adult concepts: taxes, legislations, parental obligations, retirement, etc. it’s nice to feel lustful, but more meaningful to feel a sense of mature understanding. Or maybe it’s cuz I have autism
I believe it's also largely due to relatability. Like you said with how the fans may also be in the similar age range as their oshi means that they likely would share generational experience similar to them. An easy example that I could think of is how Korone has a good amount of game history knowledge and plays alot of retro games, so people who also played games of that era might chime into their streams more often than other streams.
I agree with DN’s take on Koyori. Lui’s sexiness is toned down by her extremely mature and responsible elder sister vibe while Koyori gets a boost from her cockiness and the ability to both bully and be bullied. (Dude… she has the most punchable smug face in the whole cast) These traits of Koyori may be shared with Pekora, but Pekora is not sexy just because of her mischievous little sister vibe. (She’s also too funny to be considered sexy) Koyori, on the other hand, seems more like a friend than someone in your family, therefore she’s more lewdable and sexier than the sisters.
Also… the belly button that you can hardly see behind her tie is a big plus.
30 is leftover in the West. So, yeah, Hag tier over here.
Lol, so that means until her birthday last year in December Marine wasn't an "offical Vtuber hag" yet but has already been treated like one for years. XD
Hags with all their experience provide deep profound life advice. Marine is a perfect example of this, even before she crossed from cake to hag, she'll joke around with chat and then respond to something profoundly.
I like hags because I am one 😂 that and there's comfort in seeing people in "younger, trendy" spaces that I'm interested in that are the same age. Plus, they tend to make clippable content during zatsudans at a higher rate than younger folks.
05:10 Honestly you deserve the harassment for that take DeNo, ain't no way Koyori is sexier than Lui
I will fight DeNo for this.
And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
Why are you booing him?! He's right!
Koyori is sexier than lui for me im with DeNo on this one
LUI HIPS
A) I didnt realize being my age made me an older vtuber lol. I just figured nobody really knows whos behind the model.
B) You made me feel very good about being called a Hag and trying this streaming thing when the inspiration struck me.
Funnily enough there's a bunch of Vtubers all around other tropes that is pretty safe to say is in late 20's almost hitting 30's, if not already there. Calli and Kronii and weirdly enough, Gura, are solid examples that I can think,
To me, hag appeal has to do with the mentality one acquires reaching the 30s. We kinda start... Being less idealistic, we lose the drive for the aspirations we had in our teens/early adulthood, and that drives us to slow down and take things easier.
Also, we accrued enough life experience to have interesting stories of our past to ramble about. Take Marine for example. A lot of clips of her were Marine rambling about her past, and those stories feel pretty relatable to a lot of us, mainly since we can empathize with her and have an idea what she went through up until that stream. It's a very warm feel of listening to someone our age open up to us (yeah I'm 31, a geezer).
At least that's what I feel about Marine and even Matara
A fine wine is that which have matured the longest... Or, quoting an ice age movie, "the wrinklier the raisin, the sweetest the fruit" >:3
I WILL NEVER LET YOU LIVE IT DOWN FOR THAT LUI/KOYORI TAKE, for as long as your channel lives, I WILL BRING IT UP!!!
In his words..."fuck you fight me"
@@spencervance8484koyori is simply more attractive, fight me
I'm 25. My absolute favorite holos are Marine and OkaKoro. Recently I also got into Lui. It certainly isn't about their looks, as I don't find Marine's sexyness "distracting" me. At the same time, her shenanigans trying to be sexy and acting young are hilarious. For all of them, I just... vibe. Most certainly has something to do with their personalities, but I can't point out what it is. I just love watching them. And you as well, Mr. Nousagi. Maybe I'm into smart people?
Video about hags but no pochi mommy?
How dare you?
Yups... and no Reine either... i kind of dissapointed...
Edit, but, is Pochi Mama 30?
Alright you shits, this is why I love Nina Kosaka.
I feel tremendously SAFE watching and listening to her. And I don't mean safe from attack or something, but safe from judgement. I see an older woman confident and secure in who she is and it tells me 'I can be confident and secure in who I am". I can let myself relax and lower my defenses just by listening to her soothing and disarming voice. And as a single man in his mid thirties with a lot of personal and financial problems, that sense of peace is one hell of an aphrodisiac.
I don't fantasise about bending her over every piece of furniture in my house and railing her like some animal, I fantasise about the quiet moments. Discussing what shade of blue to paint the Bathroom, determining who needs the car more on what day, doing the dishes together as we continue our dinner conversation. She isn't some mommy that I thrist for, she represents someone that completes me!!
In my first Superchat to Nina I said she makes me want to be a better person. I can't describe HOW HOOOOOOOT that feels!!!
Saplings are like "MOOOOMMMY, GIVE ME A HEALING HANDJOB UUUUUUUUUUUU".
But as a Chad Nina enjoyer I say "Kids are finally asleep, let's pour a glass of wine and watch Netflix"
As many of you can probably guess, I've had a very, VERY rough few days......
@@YourTypicalMental I totally get you. People in their 20s fantasize about having sex with hags because of mommy issues. I'm in my mid 30s as well as you and I love hags because they are more relatable. I feel like I can speak with them and have fun in a more mature way.
You are not alone brother 🤝
You will understand when u old enough one day “age is like fine wine 🍷 “
I have no idea if Tenma Maemi is an actual hag or not (though there are several hints that suggest she is), but the reason I love her so much is because watching older people is kinda more comfortable and fun for me. Even as a kid, I preferred to talk with older people rather than with people of my own age, so I guess that kinda rubbed off on me even as an adult. It's just fun to watch an adult who is confident, mature, decisive yet knows how to act in a way that's funny. I also feel no sexual feelings regarding this trope, though that's likely because the only hag I actually follow is Tenma.
I used to think I was weird for not wanting to talk to people my own age, funny how some things stay with you
Marine is peak hag for me. Lewd as hell, but knows when to be personable and wholesome.
In unrelated news, Paipai Mask is at 5 million views and climbing.
I'm 29 years old and I very much love older women, have for a long time. They're just more relatable personally to me, plus as someone on the spectrum, we tend to get along better with older people than people of our age group.
Marine is my main favorite but I also like Lui. Nerissa also hits too pretty well.
There is a term for this in wrestling wherein the fan buys into the character but knows the background of person behind the character. This is called smark, combined smart (knows the background) and mark (buys into the kayfaybe)
As someone in his early-mid 30's... It's mostly just that they're more relatable.
Nothing really too deep there, to be entirely honest.
I can go into Nerissa Ravencroft, or Randon's stream and just say 'hey, remember when Pogs were a popular toy everybody collected?' or 'remember the Beanie Baby craze?' and be secure in their sudden emotional reaction to being reminded of events that took place before their coworkers were even alive.
To me people under 28ish years old just feel like kids, sure sometimes that's not the case. You also tend to see older streamers be very good at just talking with their chats and being constantly interesting.
This channel has so much meme material.
i want hag seggs
haggs, if you will
Pink Cat Good
Pink Cat Old
If you watch someone for long enough, you'll become a hag watcher whether you want to or not.
I'm really mixed. I like the realistic hot takes from people who genuinely knows what they are talking about, along with the interesting stories collected over the years. However, I enjoy VTubers for the Manic Pixie Dream Girl vibes from a younger and more energetic individual.
I don't know why I just love my hags.
Seeing this community call women "hag" as a sign of ultimate respect made me cry. I worry about my age and guys calling me old even though 30 is still young.
But hags are also a reminder that life doesn't end at 30. You can achieve your dreams and be happy as you hit your real adulthood. Not to mention, hearing people online women 30+ makes me feel better about myself.
Also because like. They tend to have their heads on their shoulders better and they don't do stupid shit as much. Which makes sense like. It's not just a meme, your brain finally finishes developing at around 24-25.
I have a lot of respect for them.
Mature vtubers have the experience and variety advantage: if a streaming service (say Netflix or Hulu, etc) has more movies/series available then there is a higher chance you will find something u like. They have a broader perspective on life than younger streamers, this generally translates to better advice on real life topics that you can relate to and apply to your daily life. Plus, the fact they have a better perspective means they don't make a big deal out of dumb/small things and so they are more pragmatic.
This is more of a personal thing but more life experience means more wisdom in general and that is attractive, wisdom in various topics may I add.
I also think that because mature streamers attract more mature audiences, there is overall a more responsible fandom behind it meaning less para social and harassment problems.
Lastly that grey part you talked about Vtubing(mixing the character with the real person behind it) works with mature people because the audience usually wants to know more about her real life topics than her streaming or gaming skills compared to younger streamers
PD: I tend to enjoy when mature streamers make more of a personal stream where they talk in general, not play anything. That sort of podcast feeling where the host has this kind of mentor feeling due to her life experiences, perspectives and even funny stories to tell.
I like hags because of their maturity and confidence.
They have a kayfabe,of course,
But that kayfabe simply ADDS to who they are rather than define their character.
They are also tend to be more chill than other vtubers, showing a great deal of patience and emotional stability when dealing with stressful or scary situations.
Their adult appearance,along with their natural adult voice and decomplexed way of talking about most topics, some even talking about their life openly (like vexoria for example) just makes them based.
It's appealing to a man who's disillusionned with younger women and never saw the appeal in them.
They're genuinely funny,witty and entertaining.
Like marine for example.
Of course,the horny plays a part too, but it would also apply to younger Vtubers like suisei.
It's only when it's complimented by the rest that it gives it that unique flavor.
Hag love (especially Marine)
The way I would describe the relationship between haglovers and kafabe is that a haglover admires the actress's ability and their performance just as much as the character themselves.
Like, to use an accessible comparison, it's like being a fan of Matthew Mercer. When Matt voices a character you enjoy his performance in that role, you recognize his ability as a performer to suspend your disbelief. You, at all times, know the character is a fiction. But that isn't a hinderance. You accept the character as the character, and the performer as the performer conjointly during the performance.
I'd compare it being a fan of David Bowie, Daft Punk, or The Gorillaz. You know the performance you're seeing isn't reality. But what you know about the reality of the performance you're seeing enhances the appreciation of it.
It is, however, a love predicated on "forebidden" knowledge. Like, it's a well kept secret a certain long time Vshojo cast member is a hag IRL, but her character is not. She *very* much doesn't like that personal information, as harmless as it is, to be known. So, in respect for that, long times fans of her enjoy her performance from the boxed seats, where we talk about the old days and how it's really nice to see how far our favorite wannabe anime girl has come.
For me it's mostly just relatability. I'm 30, and my taste in Vtubers skews towards people I have shared interests with. The odds go way up if they're closer to my age that we like similar things.
That's why my favorite StarsEN, for example, are Vesper (formerly) and Shinri (currently).
This explains so much about myself.
I just always liked people in their 30s (or at the very least people that seem mature)
I can rarely relate to people who are within my age group and often liked having conversations with people older than me more (I must have been quite annoying)
It's simple for me. I am 34. I relate a lot more to someone like Nina. It's not to say I can't enjoy other vtubers (Bae is a full zoomer and still one of my favorites), but its so much easier for me to get invested if I feel like this person is my contemporary peer, rather then someone 10 years younger. The benefit of that age is also the wisdom and grace that experience gives someone. Think about how most of Niji treat their fanbase. I dont think any are mean per se, maybe a few joke bits. But Nina was always so so appreciative of the fans, calling them Honey from day 1 in a smooth affirming voice. That comes from experience and knowing your fanbase makes you in this entertainment field. Also, like others said, the older women might not have the perky looks of a young 20 year old, but they make up for it with maturity and drive. They know what they like and are unashamed to say it. That confidence is sexy.
I'm almost 29 with a career, and I find vtubers who're in the same age range as I can relate to them a lot more. Also, in my experience, women become funnier as they age.
HAG = Hot Aged Girl
Nothing tastes better than aged wine
Marine senchou is so adorable and lewd she just fucks me up so hard
Amanogawa Shiina is indeed peak sexuality.
Is the Lolibaba (Tenma from Phase Connect f.e.) a subtype of hag or something different, because I think Tenma isn't 30 yet (I think).
And what about Shiina (also Phase Connect) lovingly refered to as Meemaw, also not 30?
Well, as DN said in the video, they at least must be 30s IRL no matter what their base character is. They can be chilidsh, kosogaki, little sister type, etc... but hags always be hags...
Because they are waifu material like actually someone you can marry with and have fun living together but not too fool to keep life together.
Marine and Nina fire up my neurons, might be because I am old :D
Edit: I do not like hags because i imagine saggy body parts. Its the way they pronounce words, the kind of words that they use. the whole vibe they give off just feels better. Germlins like amelia and finana are plenty enjoyable, too. But I guess I feel "most at home" with older vtubers.