This issue is why I like games with a lifepath character creation system. Cyberpunk 2020 pioneered this, but a lot of the Free League games (Tales from the Loop and all things Year Zero) also have good systems for it. Star Trek Adventures has an excellent lifepath system that is very Star Trek specific. Numenera doesn't have full-on lifepath, but it does have the features of connection to the initial adventure and each PC's specific connection to another PC -- as in, the "why are you working with these people" question. QotV: Trouble making character backstories? HA! I am a theater kid! A drama king! The holder of a valid poetic license! I often have a backstory underway before I have finished making the character! No blank character sheet can deter me!
This is really cool. My sister-in-law is very reluctant to join her fiancee's tabletop game because she thinks she doesn't have an imagination. I think I can help her with this technique and get her moving in the right direction. The only sad part is, they play The Game That Shall Not Be Named. 😀
@@WretchinWilson It's not too late. 😉 Creating a character for another game has a way of motivating people to play the game. See if you can plant that seed by asking her what kind of movies she likes. Find a game in that genre or if a TTRPG exists for it, get that game. See if her fiancee is willing to run a one-shot in that game. Worse case scenario is you'll have a new game to explore. ☺️
I struggle with getting it to fit with the world in backstory creation. I do notice (Seen from the GM seat) that players often struggle with making their backstories fit their characters' world. Thus they end up playing characters who are outsiders to the world!
To be honest I tend to be a numbers on the page person. Mainly since the groups I have played with in the past tend to be mostly minimal role playing. Which I am so glad for Servant, because I am learning so much from him. I am glad someone pointed out the life path character creation systems as I think they can help.
Making backstories in advance. Until I'm playing that character, they are in a state of continuous evolution. Then, when I start to play, they are no longer who they were.
QotV: this is more of a past tense answer. DnD crippled my creativity because "Halfling Rogue" was the extent of my idea of backstory. I had never thought of character story or even character motivation. Then I ended up in a very toxic White Wolf Vampire group where moral depravity was the entire backstory which was no improvement. I had to go from cluelessly shallow DnD guy to finding my own moral third rail and eventually fleeing that group. Over the years since, I often think more in terms of how TV shows intro the characters, especially older shows. A montage of imagery that tells a quick miniature essay of what show is about - watching Matlock opening credits tells me what I need to know about Matlock. I have loved placing empty brackets in writeups so that they can be filled later on, though the Numera d20 roll has helped even moreso. My Tough Glaive who Rages, rarely ever actually Rages - most of the time he is just an affable bumbler who acts as a bodyguard to the other (noble) PC. My side note is he was part of the guard, and well liked. Enough to get placed as a personal bodyguard. Just enough to get me going and in the game, with additional stuff brought in during the game. While over in my Savage Worlds Weird Wars II game, private Petrillo has his proud New Jersey Italian roots to uphold. He just can't help it if most of his shooting ability came from the sometimes exciting world of running booze in from the stills out in the Pine Barrens.
I am not at all against using AI. I use it just to spice up my grammar. I use my ideas, but I let ai run with my ideas and it does a great job. Another great video SOS.
Oooh man! Kicking the AI ant nest! ...I love it >:-] IMO, AI is a tool, like many others. Use it, or don't. Personally, I like using it much like you did ~ as inspiration which I will then modify to fit my game needs. QotV: One significant difficulty I have in creating character backstories is usually related to not knowing enough about the game world to make the backstory credible / tangible as it pertains to the game world :-/
I knew before even watching the video that the comment section might be interesting. AI and tabletop role-playing games are two things I'm very interested in, and I've heard a lot of discourse about both of them on the internet. I find that a large portion (or at least a vocal portion) of the gaming community is very anti-ai in any capacity. Their argument is that it unfairly copies other people's work without crediting them, thus it is a form of theft. My current (non-expert) stance is that because it's drawing from such a wide range of inputs, and because it emulates the way that humans are influenced by one another, it is not the unethical monster many claim it to be. I will be interested to see how the conversations about it continues as Ai becomes more prevalent in society (as I suspect it will given its usefulness).
I don't have a difficult time making backstories (made a backstory for a pawn in chess on e), but I guess my biggest difficulty is letting go of specific bits of a backstory that don't fit the final character.
For sure there's a bulk of RPG Players out there who just balk at, or are otherwise not proficient with creating their Character's backstory. Else, they probably just don't care to - instead they just wanna bash and shoot things, and then loot the remains. Knowing why that is, might help develop techniques to shore up that deficiency. Sometimes it seems to be about the starting point, other times it seems about the scope, and what is allowable in the setting. It is usually why it is suggested to collaborate with the GM and even the other Players, when making a Character - just don't be boxed in, build and play the Character *you* want to play. Inspiration can certainly come from cinema and literature, cherry pick some concepts and do some kit bashing, and then weave it into the Setting. AI can be useful, but how does one practice developing a Character if one becomes reliant on someone/something else doing all the imagining for them? Even AI wants prompts and further info, so consider cutting out the AI middleman and instead develop a technique for yourself that works for you and your group. AI can't express or feel emotion, and for humans, emotion is a huge part of our Character. - Typically, for me, I am building the Mechanical Character concurrently with the Narrative Character. Figuring out the current direction and skills of the Character and why they have such things - perhaps even what life-stage they acquired them. My prompts being: (Far Past) When, Where, and What were your circumstances of birth? (Far Past) As a Child, what shaped/inspired you? (Past) As a (Young) Adult, what further honed you? (Recent Past) What have you been doing in the past 3 Years/Months? (Recent Past) What have you been doing in the past 3 Months/Weeks? (Now) What are you doing now? (Now) What is your appearance now? (Near Future) What are your short term goals? (Far Future) What are your long term goals? So, that ends up being as little as 9 sentences, perhaps 3 short paragraphs. It ideally fits on one side of a sheet of paper, a 5 minute read. It can be a launch point to integrate with the Setting and with other Characters in the Setting. Further, one can extrapolate and develop Mannerisms, Personality, Quirks, Beliefs, Attitudes, Traits, Relationships, Culture, and Motivations, which can fill half (or more) of the next side of that one sheet of paper and can be *quite important* to interacting with other Characters. One could even start with these and move on to the previous life-stage considerations. One could even go so far as to do extensive research into a Setting, perhaps adding their own "homebrew" as a Player, and (within reason) go for that "full integration". Just don't forget that adventuring in the game campaign should be where the majority of the cool/interesting stuff happens...you aren't a level 1 dragon slayer and heir to the empire with untold riches, because if you were, you'd never leave the castle - that type might play tower defense, instead. There's normal backstories with a simple call to adventure, but then there's also tragic ones which may have forced a Character to adventure. Both of these can be valid. Conflicts can certainly bring a Character to life and the story will emerge from such. - Additionally, other tools exist to help give PCs and NPCs some shape and substance. The "ORGASM" method is a form of NPC AI, that can also help to flesh out a PC. (Credits: OGAS - Guy Sclanders, M - tjrooger1092, R - my contribution) Occupation - What they do with their time? Reality - What their status and situation is in the setting? Goals - What they wish to do? Attitudes - How they feel about matter(s)? Stakes - What is there to gain or lose? Machinations - How they go about their affairs? - Anyway, that's my 2 cents as developed and practiced since my return to tRPGs in 2018, after 30 years of jRPGs and cRPGs.
Since characters should be functional in a group oriented setting, I much prefer characters being fleshed out at the table in a manner conducive to the social pastime of gaming. Soloing (with the Mythic Game Master Emulator which I recently purchased) is another issue altogether - solo character background only has to satisfy me and I have no need of some "digital magic eightball" to make my background. My worry is that AI is no shortcut to an imagination when actually being literate and a voracious reader and actially applying oneself is the path to being proactive. AI just feels like being merely reactive instead.
"I adventure for the money!" I actually was considering doing an entire series of videos that is about character creation involving the back story. The "numbers on a page." Is why I do not like D&D or class based games in general. Certainly, you can add back story to them, but it isn't built into the system in more than a shallow way.
I got nothin' for the QotV this time. Just not a problem I have. That said, whether through AI or random tables, backstory is *useless* if it doesn't give your character a motivation. Where they came from is window dressing; why they are here is the juice.
@@RPGElite I mean, that's often true, but I've also seen way too many players come to the table with 18 page histories that border on biographical yet provide zero reasons why the character is on the adventure. I'll rather have a 100 sixth sons of nameless farmers from Nowhere if they want to go quest because the horizon beckons so sweetly.
@@derekburge5294 True. People can go too far with it and having a robust backstory that is a direct link to the now is valid. However, it's more than that. It also can be something the GM can use for subplots in the now in terms of the current world they are in or where they start in the campaign. By doing this, the GM increases immersion for the player because the character is more invested through the direct tie to their background. The background I created in the video is a decent length. It has details a GM could use for a campaign. So a backstory is not just for the player of the character. It is also for the campaign as a whole because these subplots/side quests can affect everyone in the group if the GM takes it in that direction. Even if they don't take it in that direction, the high level role playing of a character can affect the group because of where they came from if the player uses it right.
I am one of those who tend to put my foot down on overly extravagant backstories. I was handeda full notebook of some distressingly awful fanfic novelization of the backstory, 100 poorly scawled pages of drivel. I want at most a roughly 10 quick questions. Additionally, I am easily annoyed with "traumatic backgrounds" that look like knockoffs of Batman, etc. Which often seems to become the "angry loner" that has zero interest in the actual gaming group.
Promoting AI is highly unethical, since AI could never create anything new on its own. All it does is to steal from the actual talented creators, writers and artists. I thought you were different than the others, but I guess I was wrong.
@@MB-ur1bs Really? Huh. 🤔 What writer did I steal from using it in this video? The answer - me. It was my writing, my idea, my character. Using AI is not unethical unless the person uses it unethically. That's just what you've called me with no proof. You make a lightweight ad hominem attack with no evidence. So you can move on with your weakness to another channel since you think I am unethical. I'm done being nice to you weak boys and girls making false accusations about people's character. I'm not the one. Bye, Gertrude.
It is like going to a construction site and telling the workers that it is highly unethical to use tools..as the tools could never create anything new on their own. (Of course, give AI robots a blueprint and materials, and they could likely build cities...) Disney has been "stealing" folklore and turning it into animation for 85+ years. Besides..The Simpson's have already done everything...there's practically nothing new under the sun, only different spins on it by these allegedly talented creators, writers and artists. Hollywood reboots and sequels are the norm because they are out of original ideas too.
This issue is why I like games with a lifepath character creation system. Cyberpunk 2020 pioneered this, but a lot of the Free League games (Tales from the Loop and all things Year Zero) also have good systems for it. Star Trek Adventures has an excellent lifepath system that is very Star Trek specific.
Numenera doesn't have full-on lifepath, but it does have the features of connection to the initial adventure and each PC's specific connection to another PC -- as in, the "why are you working with these people" question.
QotV: Trouble making character backstories? HA! I am a theater kid! A drama king! The holder of a valid poetic license! I often have a backstory underway before I have finished making the character! No blank character sheet can deter me!
😊
Traveller is probably the oldest / best as far as "your character creation IS the back story."
This is really cool. My sister-in-law is very reluctant to join her fiancee's tabletop game because she thinks she doesn't have an imagination. I think I can help her with this technique and get her moving in the right direction. The only sad part is, they play The Game That Shall Not Be Named. 😀
@@WretchinWilson It's not too late. 😉
Creating a character for another game has a way of motivating people to play the game. See if you can plant that seed by asking her what kind of movies she likes. Find a game in that genre or if a TTRPG exists for it, get that game. See if her fiancee is willing to run a one-shot in that game. Worse case scenario is you'll have a new game to explore. ☺️
I struggle with getting it to fit with the world in backstory creation.
I do notice (Seen from the GM seat) that players often struggle with making their backstories fit their characters' world.
Thus they end up playing characters who are outsiders to the world!
Keeping my backstories to less than 2 pages. Yeah, I can get quite carried away with backstories.
To be honest I tend to be a numbers on the page person. Mainly since the groups I have played with in the past tend to be mostly minimal role playing. Which I am so glad for Servant, because I am learning so much from him.
I am glad someone pointed out the life path character creation systems as I think they can help.
Making backstories in advance.
Until I'm playing that character, they are in a state of continuous evolution. Then, when I start to play, they are no longer who they were.
QotV: this is more of a past tense answer.
DnD crippled my creativity because "Halfling Rogue" was the extent of my idea of backstory.
I had never thought of character story or even character motivation.
Then I ended up in a very toxic White Wolf Vampire group where moral depravity was the entire backstory which was no improvement.
I had to go from cluelessly shallow DnD guy to finding my own moral third rail and eventually fleeing that group.
Over the years since, I often think more in terms of how TV shows intro the characters, especially older shows.
A montage of imagery that tells a quick miniature essay of what show is about - watching Matlock opening credits tells me what I need to know about Matlock.
I have loved placing empty brackets in writeups so that they can be filled later on, though the Numera d20 roll has helped even moreso.
My Tough Glaive who Rages, rarely ever actually Rages - most of the time he is just an affable bumbler who acts as a bodyguard to the other (noble) PC.
My side note is he was part of the guard, and well liked.
Enough to get placed as a personal bodyguard.
Just enough to get me going and in the game, with additional stuff brought in during the game.
While over in my Savage Worlds Weird Wars II game, private Petrillo has his proud New Jersey Italian roots to uphold.
He just can't help it if most of his shooting ability came from the sometimes exciting world of running booze in from the stills out in the Pine Barrens.
I am not at all against using AI. I use it just to spice up my grammar. I use my ideas, but I let ai run with my ideas and it does a great job. Another great video SOS.
Oooh man! Kicking the AI ant nest! ...I love it >:-]
IMO, AI is a tool, like many others. Use it, or don't. Personally, I like using it much like you did ~ as inspiration which I will then modify to fit my game needs.
QotV: One significant difficulty I have in creating character backstories is usually related to not knowing enough about the game world to make the backstory credible / tangible as it pertains to the game world :-/
I knew before even watching the video that the comment section might be interesting.
AI and tabletop role-playing games are two things I'm very interested in, and I've heard a lot of discourse about both of them on the internet.
I find that a large portion (or at least a vocal portion) of the gaming community is very anti-ai in any capacity.
Their argument is that it unfairly copies other people's work without crediting them, thus it is a form of theft.
My current (non-expert) stance is that because it's drawing from such a wide range of inputs, and because it emulates the way that humans are influenced by one another, it is not the unethical monster many claim it to be.
I will be interested to see how the conversations about it continues as Ai becomes more prevalent in society (as I suspect it will given its usefulness).
I don't have a difficult time making backstories (made a backstory for a pawn in chess on e), but I guess my biggest difficulty is letting go of specific bits of a backstory that don't fit the final character.
For sure there's a bulk of RPG Players out there who just balk at, or are otherwise not proficient with creating their Character's backstory. Else, they probably just don't care to - instead they just wanna bash and shoot things, and then loot the remains.
Knowing why that is, might help develop techniques to shore up that deficiency. Sometimes it seems to be about the starting point, other times it seems about the scope, and what is allowable in the setting. It is usually why it is suggested to collaborate with the GM and even the other Players, when making a Character - just don't be boxed in, build and play the Character *you* want to play. Inspiration can certainly come from cinema and literature, cherry pick some concepts and do some kit bashing, and then weave it into the Setting.
AI can be useful, but how does one practice developing a Character if one becomes reliant on someone/something else doing all the imagining for them? Even AI wants prompts and further info, so consider cutting out the AI middleman and instead develop a technique for yourself that works for you and your group. AI can't express or feel emotion, and for humans, emotion is a huge part of our Character.
-
Typically, for me, I am building the Mechanical Character concurrently with the Narrative Character. Figuring out the current direction and skills of the Character and why they have such things - perhaps even what life-stage they acquired them. My prompts being:
(Far Past) When, Where, and What were your circumstances of birth?
(Far Past) As a Child, what shaped/inspired you?
(Past) As a (Young) Adult, what further honed you?
(Recent Past) What have you been doing in the past 3 Years/Months?
(Recent Past) What have you been doing in the past 3 Months/Weeks?
(Now) What are you doing now?
(Now) What is your appearance now?
(Near Future) What are your short term goals?
(Far Future) What are your long term goals?
So, that ends up being as little as 9 sentences, perhaps 3 short paragraphs. It ideally fits on one side of a sheet of paper, a 5 minute read. It can be a launch point to integrate with the Setting and with other Characters in the Setting.
Further, one can extrapolate and develop Mannerisms, Personality, Quirks, Beliefs, Attitudes, Traits, Relationships, Culture, and Motivations, which can fill half (or more) of the next side of that one sheet of paper and can be *quite important* to interacting with other Characters. One could even start with these and move on to the previous life-stage considerations.
One could even go so far as to do extensive research into a Setting, perhaps adding their own "homebrew" as a Player, and (within reason) go for that "full integration". Just don't forget that adventuring in the game campaign should be where the majority of the cool/interesting stuff happens...you aren't a level 1 dragon slayer and heir to the empire with untold riches, because if you were, you'd never leave the castle - that type might play tower defense, instead.
There's normal backstories with a simple call to adventure, but then there's also tragic ones which may have forced a Character to adventure. Both of these can be valid. Conflicts can certainly bring a Character to life and the story will emerge from such.
-
Additionally, other tools exist to help give PCs and NPCs some shape and substance.
The "ORGASM" method is a form of NPC AI, that can also help to flesh out a PC.
(Credits: OGAS - Guy Sclanders, M - tjrooger1092, R - my contribution)
Occupation - What they do with their time?
Reality - What their status and situation is in the setting?
Goals - What they wish to do?
Attitudes - How they feel about matter(s)?
Stakes - What is there to gain or lose?
Machinations - How they go about their affairs?
-
Anyway, that's my 2 cents as developed and practiced since my return to tRPGs in 2018, after 30 years of jRPGs and cRPGs.
I use chatgpt to do my session recaps...such a timesaver
Since characters should be functional in a group oriented setting, I much prefer characters being fleshed out at the table in a manner conducive to the social pastime of gaming.
Soloing (with the Mythic Game Master Emulator which I recently purchased) is another issue altogether - solo character background only has to satisfy me and I have no need of some "digital magic eightball" to make my background.
My worry is that AI is no shortcut to an imagination when actually being literate and a voracious reader and actially applying oneself is the path to being proactive. AI just feels like being merely reactive instead.
The hardest part is the “why”. The who, what, where and when are usually easy… but why are they there doing what they’re doing?
"I adventure for the money!" I actually was considering doing an entire series of videos that is about character creation involving the back story. The "numbers on a page." Is why I do not like D&D or class based games in general. Certainly, you can add back story to them, but it isn't built into the system in more than a shallow way.
AI can be used like this and maybe even not trigger people too
Crushdat 🤛
That's all minuta to me. I don't need to know all that. I need to know why I'm here, not necessarily how I got here.
I got nothin' for the QotV this time. Just not a problem I have.
That said, whether through AI or random tables, backstory is *useless* if it doesn't give your character a motivation. Where they came from is window dressing; why they are here is the juice.
I am going to disagree slightly on this because where they came from is a direct link as to why they are here. So, it all matters for the character.
@@RPGElite I mean, that's often true, but I've also seen way too many players come to the table with 18 page histories that border on biographical yet provide zero reasons why the character is on the adventure. I'll rather have a 100 sixth sons of nameless farmers from Nowhere if they want to go quest because the horizon beckons so sweetly.
@@derekburge5294 True. People can go too far with it and having a robust backstory that is a direct link to the now is valid.
However, it's more than that.
It also can be something the GM can use for subplots in the now in terms of the current world they are in or where they start in the campaign. By doing this, the GM increases immersion for the player because the character is more invested through the direct tie to their background.
The background I created in the video is a decent length. It has details a GM could use for a campaign. So a backstory is not just for the player of the character. It is also for the campaign as a whole because these subplots/side quests can affect everyone in the group if the GM takes it in that direction.
Even if they don't take it in that direction, the high level role playing of a character can affect the group because of where they came from if the player uses it right.
I am one of those who tend to put my foot down on overly extravagant backstories.
I was handeda full notebook of some distressingly awful fanfic novelization of the backstory, 100 poorly scawled pages of drivel.
I want at most a roughly 10 quick questions.
Additionally, I am easily annoyed with "traumatic backgrounds" that look like knockoffs of Batman, etc.
Which often seems to become the "angry loner" that has zero interest in the actual gaming group.
I think your background should be no more than two sentences. The game master and most people at the table can't remember more than that.
Promoting AI is highly unethical, since AI could never create anything new on its own. All it does is to steal from the actual talented creators, writers and artists.
I thought you were different than the others, but I guess I was wrong.
@@MB-ur1bs Really? Huh. 🤔
What writer did I steal from using it in this video? The answer - me. It was my writing, my idea, my character.
Using AI is not unethical unless the person uses it unethically. That's just what you've called me with no proof. You make a lightweight ad hominem attack with no evidence.
So you can move on with your weakness to another channel since you think I am unethical. I'm done being nice to you weak boys and girls making false accusations about people's character. I'm not the one.
Bye, Gertrude.
It is like going to a construction site and telling the workers that it is highly unethical to use tools..as the tools could never create anything new on their own. (Of course, give AI robots a blueprint and materials, and they could likely build cities...)
Disney has been "stealing" folklore and turning it into animation for 85+ years.
Besides..The Simpson's have already done everything...there's practically nothing new under the sun, only different spins on it by these allegedly talented creators, writers and artists. Hollywood reboots and sequels are the norm because they are out of original ideas too.