Celebrate Sausage S02E03 - What is Non Fat Dry Milk
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- #celebratesausage
Today we are talking about Non Fat Dry Milk.
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An amazing explanation of non fat milk. The golden nugget I got, in addition to the sausage info, was use it in pizza dough! Thanks!
Excellent information, thank you Eric. Hope you make episodes for other binders.
Eric, Thank you! Not knowing the distinction between high heat and low heat dry milk powder, I have tried to use low heat nonfat dry milk many times in my sausages as I saw that it was an ingredient, but I just never felt it did anything, so I started leaving it out... About 20 years ago. Finally, I can get the proper product and find out what nonfat dry milk will actually do for my sausage! Excellent explanation!
Huh, I never heard of low heat and high heat dry milk, I'm super glad you pointed that out as otherwise I would've just purchased the stuff from my local grocery store and not had good results.
I came here for education. On many forums Non-fat dry milk is mentioned alot. Watching Season 5 I only saw you using potato starch. Went searching for differences and when and where to use. Lo and Behold Eric pops up. You are a wealth of knowledge. Thanks for sharing.
Answered all of my questions. Thank you very much. Great channel 👏
Eric nice video! You should do a video of a ranking from worst to best binders in you opinion and expertise
Excellent, as always, Eric! Where does "C-Bind" fit in the spectrum of binders?
I'd love to see a comparison of two sausages made with high-heat and low-heat, moisture retention with weight comparison after cooking in possibly sous vide to control temp, grilling, and hot-smoking. I'm a skeptic to the core. I am super curious now.
New drinking game! Every time he says "Non Fat Dry Milk". This game is only for experienced drinkers! LOL
Excellent information! I normally use milk powder when making fresh sausage and on rare occasions when making slow-fermented salamis (addition of sugars in the milk powder dropping pH possibly too quickly...)...I have also had good success with potato starch and carrot fiber...thanks again!
Very informative! You just saved my baking process.
Wow, another great video, Eric!
This was really informative! One small request is maybe to update recipes to call out high heat NFDM. I won't be making this mistake again, but truth be told, when I saw NFDM in one of the recipes I didn't click on the link to order -- I just went to my grocery store and bought what was there. I had no idea there was a difference. fascinating.
I saw this today, and unknowingly bought low-heat dry milk Monday for a 4kg batch that’s smoking over campfire/mesquite as we speak.
Damn, more great information. I just tried using likely low heat dry milk in a brioche recipe, now I see where I went awry. You've got a lot of knowledge in that cabeza Eric. Also how many languages do you speak 3? I'm guessing English, Spanish and French.
Thanks. I speak 2 fluently. French is a little rusty..😅
You forgot Cajun!
Just in time. Thanks very much Mr.
Very informative. Thanks
Didn't know about high and low heat processed milk and would just buy whatever and since I only use it for bread and sausage making I see I need to pay attention. Lately I've been buying powdered milk made by Bob's Red Mill mainly because it's cheaper by weight than the 3 packs in a box at my grocery store. I went online and saw that it is Hi heat processed. Makes sense since it's for baking.
Thanks for the video. What are some of the other binders you use and how would you rank them?
I'll do a ranking in a different video but some binders include, egg whites, corn starch, rice flour, potato starch, Soy Protein Isolate, Non Fat Dry Milk, Textured soy protein, carrot fiber, just to name a few....
@@2guysandacooler that would be another great video!
@@2guysandacooler I'd love a link to this video if you've done it
Love your channel. I just ordered some dry milk and LHP from TSM based on this video. It's in the snack stick recipe which is my next project. I'm intrigued by your comment about pizza crust benefitting from the dry milk. Can you explain or do a video about it?
That is awesome! LHP is great for getting that "tang" in a snack stick
Can I substitute Potato starch for Corn starch when making sausage?
You mention dry milk as a binder some where in the middle, which binders are the best to use?
Thank You. Very informative. By the way what's the ratio to add to my pizza dough? Lol
LOL.. Try adding between 3% and 5% to the weight of the flour
What is the shelf life of high heat milk powder?
Hi Eric. Great info. Could you recommend some alternative binders and how to use them. I can't get hold of high heat dry milk. Thanks Phil.
Sure: Carrot Fiber, Potato Starch, Soy Protein Isolate, Soy Protein Concentrate, Egg whites, corn starch, rice flour, (just to name a few)
What about skimmed powdered milk- can it be a substitute for nonfat powdered milk?
Ok, what's the best binder then?????
Very interesting, but where in Western Canada can you get the high heat milkpowder ?
You might be better off using soy protein concentrate or potato starch
Great info! For breadmaking when a recipe calls for Non Fat Dry I use Hoosier Hill Farm All American Dairy Whole Milk Powder. I find the bread tastes better with the whole milk vs skim. Assuming it is high heat (I just sent Hoosier Hill a message asking) is there any reason not to try it in sausage, It would hopefully give it a little better flavor and added fat.
Rich, did you get a reply?
@@tpcdelisle Hi Rich,
Thank you for your email.
Our whole milk is neither treated with high or low heat, but we have found it is best used in low heat applications. We are assuming that sausage making would require heating, so our whole milk might not be the best solution for that.
We hope that helps. If we can be of any further assistance, please let us know.
Sincerely,
Hoosier Hill Farm LLC
Customer Service
Hours of Operation
Monday - Friday
8 am - 4:30 pm CST
👌🏻
Hey there, not sure if you will see this but I was wondering if you could do a video at some point on the different kind of sausage binders along with the pros and cons on them, you mentioned that the non fat dry milk is about middle of the road here and I'd love to know what are some of the best and some of the worst, and the reasons why.
Also, how to look for High heat non fat dry milk when there are no obiouse labels, I'm from Australia and it doesn't seem like I'm able to buy the stuff without spending a huge amount on importants.
Thanks a lot, been watching a bunch of your videos lately.
Potato starch is a great binder, as well as soy protein isolate (or concentrate). But I think that's a great video suggestion😁
@@2guysandacooler thanks for the quick reply! I've been binge watching your video and it's suddenly 5:30am.
I shall note those suggestions down and do more reading on them later. Might do a test on my next sausage making day.
I appreciate it.
Would Skim Milk Powder be the same as Non Fat Dry Milk? My Venison Salami recipe from UMAI calls for Skim Milk Powder.
as long as it's high heat it will work
I contacted Conagra who made my Nonfat Dry Milk. They confirmed that mine was high heat manufactured.
@@Harbicide nice!! That's the stuff
you mentioned that high temp milk powder is "middle of the road" as a binder. What do you consider the best?
phosphates are in the top, carrot fiber is solid, potato starch does a great job
@@2guysandacooler neglected to ask your opinion of soy protean concentrate or isolate
both are great. I like isolate better than concentrate but both do a very nice job as binders
荷藕。嘤嘤嘤
Eric, you are an encyclopaedia of processed meat knowledge and technique. Really enjoy your content and glad I discovered your channel 👍
I got high heat nonfat dry milk in bulk, should I store the excess it in smaller mylar bags with oxygen absorbers?
Also, how can I add it to pizza dough/bread??? What proportions and what step? I mill my own wheat for bread products.
I'm guilty as charged! I didn't know there was a difference from store bought. Thanks for the info Eric! Good stuff!
Truth be told me too 😉
Same here! I've been making sausage for years and have been using standard grocery store 'Carnation' non-fat dry milk all this time... Now I'll have to get the high heat version and see what a difference it can make! Looking forward to it!
@@cannistershot2277 Did you ever buy the HH version and notice a difference?
@@carlbordelon I did. It would probably require a side-by-side sausage comparison to see/taste any difference though (e.g. impact to plumpness and juiciness).
2 years in culinary school, 25 + years in the industry, and 10 years of not understanding the differences between HHDM and LHDM. Thanks!
This man's content is always A1.
Man, this is so well stated and understandable. I haven't made much sausage, but clarity the way you laid it out is so appreciated. I wish everyone could do that :D
Thank you, Eric!
Very informative on something I took for granted. You answered all the questions I was thinking of asking during the presentation. Very well done.. I will be switching today as I use it in both baking and sausage making.
I'll be going from amateur to novice when this month is up! Thanks for all of the great content
Eric, you were begging for a reason to geek out and this milk was a perfect outlet. Thanks for the info.
I ferment my summer sausage and snack sticks using LHP on a 12 hour 90° cycle. I have been utilizing sure gel meet binder available at Waltons which is a dairy based binder. I am noticing no off taste from it. I’m wondering if I switch to the high temp nonfat dry milk powder at your 2% recommended level levelif I will be able to taste any milk in the product? Please advise I mix 50% pork with 50% venison
Excellent explanation on non-fat dry milk. 2:39 - I know you said to add 2-4% of non-fat dry milk from the weight of the meat, so does this mean I can also add at the same time an additional 5-10% water to it based on the meat's weight? Is there a ratio to follow based on the percentage of the dry milk which directly relates to the percentage of the moisture? From my understanding it seems 2-4% dry milk will provide 5-10% moisture?. Thanks.
Your introductory remarks about non-fat dry milk put in the middle of the spectrum i.e., "not the worst and not the best" binder for sausage. That begs the question what is the best binder for general sausage application.
Once I found out that non fat dry milk could be used as a binder I became enraged and started smashing everything around me. I don't remember much, but my wife says I dismantled our Volvo with an eight pound splitting maul.
Huh, cool! That was helpful, thank you. So what's the best binder then?
Bologna makers have bigger Sausages...just saying
Thank u Eric great vid always looking to up my game
The best meat channel on TH-cam
Just in the process of making a batch of your jalapeno cheddar smokies/sausages, following your video from the other day !!
Sweet. One of my favorites from this season
Many years ago a great pizzaiolo told me that a good pepperoni that cups properly will always contain casein. Not sure how casein and non fat dry milk are related, but just thought I'd toss that out there.
Can i use whey protein powder as a no carb alternative to NFDM?
How about in making Spanish Chorizo?
Interesting, who know. Obviously Eric, very informative. Thank you
اين المقادير والمكونات
I never knew there is a difference. Now I do! I'll make the switch. Thank you for the lesson.
What is the best binder? How about rusk?
I used a binder called "bull flour" in a recent beef sausage. I liked the soft texture it seemed to provide. I made the bull flour myself with a grain grinder and the different grains required. I think in England they also cut their meat with cereal binders like "rusk," which I learned about from the Scott Rea channel.
I think I remember hearing that rusk was a depression-era thing to make meat stretch farther.
Thanks. That was so interesting and also explains why I have not felt any particular benefit from using supermarket milk powder in some of my recipes. I will have to search for a high heat version for next time I need it for a sausage recipe.
Can I not heat up the low temp dry milk?
Do you ever use Rusk as a binder as they do in the UK?.
Eric, what is the ranking of binders and binding properties? Great job as always 👏
Yes?
Following
.
Is there a video on this question? If not, it’s a great idea.
@@jaydickson7597 yes, Duncan Henry has a video about it.
Two words for you
Thank You!
Eric, I love this series! Thank you so much for all you do!!
What am I going to do with my can of carnation dry milk powder now? LOL. I’ve used Carnation in the past on summer sausage. At least it didn’t hurt the end product, even if it didn’t help. Good info!
ABOUT TO MAKE 50 LBS OF DEER/PORK SAUSAGE. HOW MANY OZ'S OF MILK POWDER SHOULD I USE TO GET 2%? THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELPFULL VIDEO'S
I don't like the imperial system for weights but if you must know.
You need to convert pounds into ounces. 50 pounds = 800 oz
Then you need to multiply 800 x 2% (or .02)
so 800oz x .02 = 16oz
So, your answer is 16oz or 1 pound of milk powder.
How many grams of dry milk in 1 cup of cold water? And how many grams of dry milk in 5kg of meat? Thank you
The recipe I write on my website explain the amounts. Generally, it's between 2% and 4% of the weight of your meat. I tend to go on the lower side.
Cheap filler is what it is!
Eric, thanks. In this episode you mention non fat dry milk and using it in pizza dough. Can you explain more, I am a sausage, cheese, and pizza maker and I’m curious what it will do. Many thanks
So which binder is the best?
*looks sadly at the 5lbs of LHNFDM on his shelf...
😥
What is potatoe starch used for then?(in your chicken fajita sausage)
It's a binder that traps moisture. Helps with the Texture and jucyness. You can use milk powder, potato starch, soy protein, as they all do the same thing
I don't do dairy, can I use eggs instead? If so how much?
eggs work, potato starch would be better
Mate that was an excellent explanation of a subject that im sure took you longer than the 16 minute video to understand and explain in laymans terms ...... Sir i BOW in your general direction !!! Steve From OZ !!
Glad it helped
Can I put nonfat powdered milk in raw sausage?
yes
Can you tell me the difference between potato starch and non fat dry milk and when to use one or the other?
they are interchangeable. Use whatever you have😉
When would you use soy protein vs dry milk?
they are interchangeable, its up to you
Eric, if you were to add 1 cup of water per 5 pounds of meat (ground pork butt), how much high temp dry milk powder would you add? Is even the ratio of 1 cup water per 5 pounds meat reasonable?
I would add 2% - 3% binder. That would give you 1 cup of liquid to 5 pounds of meat (basically 10%)
@@2guysandacooler Thanks much for answering! How much dry milk powder per cup of water? 56 grams of powder, which is 2.5% of 5 pounds?
Thank you so much Eric for this intructive video.
what sausages do u smoke a long time,low and slow, u didnt say
It's not a specific sausage. It can be literally any sausage you want. We typically slow cook most of our smoked sausages
That explains why I didn’t quite get the results when I use nonfat dry milk powder that I got at the store you were just a wealth of knowledge Eric thank you
Can nfdm give your sausage an aftertaste?
I don't notice one
Is non fat dry milk is the same as phosphate? In terms of preserving meat juice?
In a very general sense, yes
@@2guysandacooler thank you so much for your response
Hi can accord phosphate and non fat dry milk used together for making sausage. Thanks
sure.
Thank you very much
What is your opinion in using potato starch instead of powder milk
I love it. Personally I use it more than milk powder
@@2guysandacooler thank you I’m not a milk lover
Excellent break down! been wanting to incorporate it in y fresh sausage
To be honest i don't believe that it matters when using Low Heat Non Fat Dry Milk in making uncooked Salamis. I think that High heat Non Fat Dry Milk withstands higher temperatures during cooking or smoking a sausage. So for Salamis Low heat is just fine.
Question: If milkpowder was the middle on a scale of good binders to use, what would be a better binder?
Potato.starch, carrot fiber, phosphates, soy protein isolate. IMO
@@2guysandacooler Thank you for your swift reply ❤
So potato starch.. Same ratio as with milk powder?
And how about Xanthan Gum?
@@hakansoder5279 yes
Hi Eric
Finally made my first sausage this weekend just gone! Thank you for inspiring me to this goal.
I have a question for you. When you talk about amounts of ingredients to use as a percentage, is this against the mass of the meat and fat combined or just the mass of the meat?
This should start some interesting discussions on SMF.... Thanks for the great explanation.... That discussion has been bounced around for awhile...
LOL. I bet. Lots of folks have the wrong idea about this product,,, Thanks for sharing Dave
@@2guysandacooler I checked the thread and 1 member doesn't believe everything in the video... AS IF YOU ARE MAKING UP STUFF AS YOU GO ....
@@Dmenbiker lol. Sometimes it hard to accept new information.
Excellent. I have always used Soy Protein in my sausages but now would like to hear you compare Soy Protein and Non Fat Dry Milk.
Hi Eric,
Thanks you so much for your incredible videos and recipes. I would like to try using a binder in my future chorizo/charcuterie projects but in South Africa the NFDMP, even the ones used by the local dairy farmers to feed their calfs, contain added ingredients/fats/enzyme enhancers.
Would it be suitable to use pure soy, potato starch or a commercial meat binder as a replacement? I don't want to change the flavor or mess with the fermentation so I'm a bit hesitant with the commercial option.
Any assistance or advice would be greatly appreciated.
What about powdered whole milk? My guess is that they simply do not make a HH whole milk powder. When making yogurt, I've used the whole milk powder.
This is a very interesting subject. Thank you
So the difference is similar to pasteurized vs. ultra-pasteurized milk, slight changes in proteins and chemical levels and the associated effects on final product. Ultra-pasteurized milk will never give you proper curd set in cheese making, because the casein proteins are damaged (changed/de-natured) by the high heat of the ultra-pasteurization process. I am still waiting for cold pressed milk, technically high-pressure pasteurized at low temperature, to catch on in the US. The high-pressure pasteurization has shown to produce microbial safe milk with fewer of the protein and chemical changes associated with the application of heat used in normal pasteurization. Granted this is more of an issue for cheese makers, but really what goes with a lot of sausages better than some cheese? And why not make both yourself? Plus I prefer the taste of raw milk over that of pasteurized, probably because I grew up on a dairy farm drinking milk straight from bulk tank at 3.9-4.3% milk fat content instead of 2-3.5%.
Any recommendations for an electric heater for a small homemade (3 ft. sq. X 5 ft. tall) smoker? I love your channel!
Eric you really do a good job on explaining everything 👍anybody could understand it
Thanks that was very informative!! And then you talked about the best pizza crust...please do share i always look for best.