When Should You Upgrade Your S55 Crank Hub? | BREAK DOWN
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ม.ค. 2022
- A lot of people have asked me in recent times when they should be upgrading their crank hub and truthfully, it's a tough question to answer. So in today's video I attempted to break this topic down in an easy to understand, and concise manner. If you want to learn more about this issue and find out how it manifests itself into the S55 engine, check out some of my other videos which I have linked below! Also please remember to leave a like and subscribe for more awesome content. Thanks for watching!
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S55 crank hub discussion? You woke up and chose violence today 😈
🤣🤣🤣😂
@@SimplyCarThings lmfao
Tbh crankhub failure is 95% of the time user error, if your not someone that takes it easy on your car then id consider doing it. If you plan to make upwards of 500hp or if you have a model that has close to 100k miles on it, then id also consider doing it as well. It's nice cause w/ the crankhub you get all preventative maintenance done, so its kind of in you favor in that case. You get the oil pan gasket done, valvecover gasket, coolant flush, and much much more, so that could make it well worth it if you plan to keep the car over 100k miles, or at least till then. By the time an S55 gets close to 80k-100k miles all that preventative maintenance is going to need to be done anyways due to seals having to many heat cycles & fluids just simply getting old. So if your someone that can take it easy on stage 1 and you just commute to work M-F and just get on it on the weekends (how I do), you will be more than fine, don't worry about it. Just don't be downshifting your car to redline consistently, especially in 1st & 2nd gear. I have plenty of friends w/ s55's running bm3 stage 1 w/ no crankhub and they've never had any issues. There is a reason there was never a recall for the crankhub….. and why it was never covered under warranty, in most cases that is. Also don't forget BMW's M division ran the M4 GTS with 493hp on the S55 with no crank hub fixes, issues, or anything. This how you know the S55 stock crank hub is good for somewhere close 500hp without having any issues. Again, that is if your not downshifting to redline in 2nd and 3rd all the time.. Hope this helps some of you!
FYI I spun my crank hub with 7K miles on my F82 M4. If you tune it do it. It's extremely stupid not too. People that say they don't need to also probably can't afford to pay for a new engine either. So basically if you want to tune it do it. If you leave it stock you should be fine.
@@BlakesGarage i just got an m4 with 60k miles, wonder if i should do it. I plan on leaving it stock engine wise for some months
I have a 17 M4 Competition i went ahead and did it. I added a stage 1 tune. I believe it was worth it as I dont have $20k for a new engine if something goes wrong
@@BlakesGarage Yes but most of the time it trickles down to user error, if you don't downshift hard constantly and keep stress off you motor then you'll most likely be fine on Stage 1. We are all on it stage 1 now and none of us have problems...at least all the ppl i know on Stage 1 that is. Anything over Stage 1 and in that Stage 2 category you defiantly need to do it. Don't not enjoy your car over it, just be mindful.
@@F82_ Then your fine don't worry about it. Check what I typed out up there, it explains everything. If you wiling to be mindful your even safe on Stage 1 bro, just don't be downshifting to redline everywhere you go. Also if your already at 60k just last another 20k miles and you will have to do all your preventative maintenance anyways and all of it gets done with the crank hub, so if you can wait it out that's the best way to go. Valve cover, oil pan, coolant flush, and much much more gets done during the crank hub. All this stuffs gotta be taken care of by 100k miles max no matter what
Good points for sure! Im currently running a bolt capture and so far so good. Know plenty of people running bolt captures with high horse power with no issues👍🏽.
Just had my 2020 M2C bolt capture done by Litchfield along with a stage 1 upgrade to just over 540hp and Bilsteins all round. If I would have had to choose just one upgrade it would be the Bilsteins. It transforms the driving experience completely. They strongly recommend a crank hub fix if you are upping the power and they should know as they are the best in the tuning business for BMW's. They claim to have had quite a few power upgraded M2's revisit them who chose not to have the crank hub fix done first time round only to present them with a big bill on their subsequent visit, way in excess of the the cost of the original fix. If you are upgrading power its not worth the risk unless you have loads of money to spare..
Had mine done and worth the peace of mind
Thank you so much for this vlog, got to say the most balanced discussion I’ve heard regarding the “crank hub failure”. My F80 M3 is stock and I have absolutely no interest in increasing the power so have never considered doing anything to it. The car is still under warranty this is also another reason I would not have anything done to it. 👍
You're welcome, thanks for watching! Even stock F80's are just so quick.
Man this is scary. I plan on keeping my M4 stock, I barely redline it and yet I’m still considering this.
Love your channel. I have a f80 that I bought new. Manual transmission. Missed a shift from 4th looking for 5th and hit 3rd accidentally and broke a plug. Thought it was crank hub. Love your videos. Keep it up. I have a bootmod cs tune. But stage 1 when that happened
What plug did you break bro??
you got lucky then, i did the same shift at the top of 4th but luckily i realized before fully letting clutch out and engage fully. Was racing too, so it all happened fast. Dealer said computer logged 7900rpm which is not much higher than 7600 redline, so I got lucky nothing happened. If It fully engaged, rpm was gonna be like 9000 and would've needed a new motor for sure lol
Great video can you give a thought's on s55 crank hub bolt capture?
30k on my 2020 stage 2 manual f87 m2. so far so good. i plan to keep the car for a while and do the crank hub and upgrade the turbos while im at it. edit: also had a stock 2018 dual clutch f80 m3 with 35k on the clock when i sold prior to the m2 with no issues
Would getting another crank bolt torqued to spec a somewhat good idea? I always hear it spins because the crank bolt backs out of the crank
What are your thoughts on DCT flashes with regards to potential CH issues?
from what i’ve heard, it’s more dependent on kick down, i’m currently around 600whp on a stock crank hub and there’s no issue even tho i do drive hard, but one thing is I almost never use kick down.. like you mentioned about dct vs m/t, it makes sense cause m/t doesn’t have kick down
yeah also the rev matching and downshifts are more aggressive in the DCT which play a factor IMO.
I was speaking with the owner of Active Autowerke about this. He says he doesn’t see this as an imminent problem for the F80 from his experience. I believe him, but could this be a problem that becomes more likely as these cars age? I don’t think anyone knows for sure. I’ll get mine done when the car is a decade old with approximately 75,000 miles. My car is mostly stock and manual.
Do you have any experience with the crank hub capture. I have it on my stage 2 f82.
Is this something necessary for the N54 also?
Bro this white m4 is so clean 🙏🙏🖤 have you more photos? Please give me link.
I would like to have an explanation of what it is mecanically that makes power output dangerous. I also wonder wht BMW motorsport never have any problems on their race cars.
I have stage 2 right now and have drove 12,000 miles so far and I have no Crank Hub issues. Sometimes I drive it rough because you can’t drive that kinda car in normal mode. You just can’t it sounds too good and feels too good. I am think of soon doing it and my vehicle has 33K miles. I think if you ran any kind of tune on your M3 And you drive a lot of miles with no issue, you should get it done because maybe no more luck lol
Hi Omar definitely if you are tracking or going for big power otherwise you should be ok 🇬🇧👍🇬🇧👍
100 octane tune, 116,000miles full bolt on tune....only issues so far was 2 fuel injectors stuck open....replaced fuel pump and injectors ( stock ) injectors...had a high output fuel pump, it was trash, fuel gauge wouldn't read right and the pump didn't operate correctly, leaning out at fuel throttle or high loads....replaced it with a stock bmw pump...cars runs strong
Dang bro you at 116? Just got one with 53k miles for 50 k after taxes was worried I wouldn’t get my money’s worth
damn thats great to hear!
@@lifethroughnick yes and it still runs hard, not missing a beat...I'm impressed
Update?
@@f82baba 130,000 miles no change car is great ....no crank hub issue at all...same tune
I was under the impression that BMW beefed up the crank hub from the 2017 models on. keep in mind that depending on the car you have the S55 has various HP ratings stock. For example, would the crank hub for a M3 or M4 be under more stress than a M2?
m2 has n55
M2 comp has the S55
Great video. It’s a lot of misinformation in the forums. So I think a good idea for a part 2 would be talking about some differences between the two recommended options.
thank you, thats definitely a good topic that ill consider making a video on
I have a 550 hp 6mt with 73k on it, no issues. Both the N54 and N55 used the same design and had no issues (largely 6mt or TC autos). I think the problem is DCT boxes and aggressive down shifts backing the bolt out. I would only bother doing this if you have a DCT that you regularly track and/or drive hard.
loads of people reported it on the N54 and N55 wdym
Its fine until it slips then you wish you had spent that little bit extra to stop ever happening. If you drive it like a Nissan Micra then don't bother but people don't buy M2's to pootle down to the shops. I drive my Litchfeld stage 1 with crank hub fix and Bilstein upgrades (worth every penny) quite normally (70- 90mph on motorways.. its too risky to drive excessively fast on UK roads as you will only lose your licence driving over 100mph and there are idiots that pull out to overtake without indicating at the last moment as you bare down on them at high speed ) but I do use the right foot when I need to. I enjoy it for its immense overtaking ability to get from A to B when I need to get past those irritating slow drivers that won't overtake unless there is a mile of clear straight road ahead or they are on a dual carriageway. You can overtake 3 or 4 cars with absolute ease in my M2C in less than half the time most cars can barely overtake one.
@@hazzard8760 That is true, and they do slip, but my point is I don't think they slip unless you money shift or have a dct and bang down gears aggressively all the time. I actually did the bolted joint calculation on an evolve video somewhere and the cams and fuel pump would have to draw about 300 hp at 5k to slip the hub on stock bolt torque, so unless the bolt has relaxed or backed out then it ain't slipping. I would definitely do the fix on a dct that is driven hard.
Do you know any reliability issues with the 2017 440i gran coupe with the stock factory M Performance kit? It has the B58 engine
Very reliable
How likely is the hub to spin on a 6mt vs a DCT? Anyone have knowledge on that? I've been thinking of getting my hub done, but I'm in an 6mt '18 Comp, 59k miles. Thoughts?
pretty sure you can't really fuck it up with MT as long as it's stock
Cool video
Hey men i would like to get those exhaust tips on my m4 can you send me the link were you get it
they come with the factory M Performance Exhaust
great, concise video. interesting how E85 seems to dramatically increase the case rate for crank hub issues. i wonder what the reason is behind that
Makes a lot more torque
when tuned e85 can make a whole of a lot more power versus 91/93 octane fuel.
@@riceball777 how does that affect the camdrive system?
Great Great video bro, this needed to be talked about! I swear its always the E85 tunes that spin that shit. lol 90% of my Spun crank hub stories are all E85 tunes
I’ve have homies who spun their hub on stock tunes as well bro
@@luislagunass true but I personally don't know any, so therefor its in the category of "Un-common" for me. I do understand it happens but if it where THAT common for spinning, then id know more ppl who have spun it and Bmw would have had a recall for it, and they didn't. Therefor I'm not worried about it past stage 1 nor should anyone else as long as they don't drive hard everywhere they go and downshift to redline
thanks bro! Yea E85 just seems to be the official tipping point for the issue
I've been running e30 for a few months now on stock hub lol, I should get mine done soon. 6MT though
@@MikeyG003 I have a homie w/ a 2018 comp pack running full E on stock crank and he is fine. AGAIN it all comes down to your driving style. If your conservative and respect the car, its gunna be fine. 90% of the time
Just doing cbc alone is fine below e85. Just make sure crank bolt tightened down before doing it. If you don’t believe me find me real specific examples of sch with cbc that wasn’t a money shift.
i spun my stock CH and was under warranty in february, about a week ago, it spun again, i was flashed stage 1 for 1 day, hadn’t even driven it hard, and it spun again, warranty denied fixing because of stage 1 flash. both times that i spun it was just a mild spin and just need retimed, car is going in next week for full crankhub fix
Def sounds like not torqued properly or you really can’t drive lol.
@@ronintheamazon1492 yeah the crankhub definitely wasn’t done properly considering the previous owner had the car stage 1 as well, i will confirm when the car goes into the shop for aftermarket hub next week what they find with the stock CH
how many miles did it have?
@@dinosoarskill17 60k first spin, 60,700 second spin
@@hellbentgarageog thanks for reply, dct? nice m3, i have the same color. you have the front lowered?
is the crank hub an issue in the s58 engine also ?
In the S58 engine it is not an issue!
I've been on full e85 for 1yr now and roll race alot zero issues I just never downshift aggressively.. I just recently put on the bolt capture plate I also have a friend who's been on e85 2yrs now no issues
Update?
@@f82baba zero issues still..
Hard to justify getting the crankhub “fix” at/around/below M4 GTS level power
exactly thank you. End of discussion
Any update of the F02
sold it a year and a half ago. got offered a price that i couldnt refuse
it also sucks that we have to worry about the shops drilling the new hubs incorrectly at a wrong angle, which could make the situation even worse. I wouldn't even trust myself to install a 4-pin/etc lol (Not saying i'm very mechanically inclined)
Yeah this is why the VTT Spline lock solutions is pretty popular too. The pin ones have a guide though so if it’s a reputable shop it should be done right regardless.
oh yea for sure, i know of a shop that butchered the install on one, but im not gona drop names or point fingers lol
I understand the S55 may have no issue if in stock form, but this is a really bad design full stop. These engineers know that there could be a failure if an increase in power is realised so why not just key it to start with. What would be interesting to know, is what they do on factory backed race cars. DTM cars and the like. I'm new to the whole BMW thing having just bought a 2015 M4 only 2 weeks ago. Its stock, so I'm not to worried at the moment. My issue is that there is no one in my city who has done this mod so my car will have to be transported 2500kms round trip to have it done. All in I'm looking at around the 8k mark to have this done. All that aside I really like this car and enjoy the drive. I'm currently finishing off another build at the moment and said to myself just leave it as it is, then I went and bought the LED race wheel. And so it begins, Lol.
the dtm cars use an entirely different engine called the P66
@@Svall23 I knew someone would know, thanks mate.
Drive in manual mode and avoid heavy kickdowns and you aren't very likely to have crank hub problems standard or stage 1.
Get ur fix done, spun my m2c stage 1 (1500km) with 13000km 2 days ago
Ruin your motor or just timing? & how many miles when it spun?
@@dinosoarskill17 timing was off only, luckily. 6200 miles when i threw on stage 1 and timing was off at about 7200 miles. 95% cruising
@@AimSucker thanks for reply man, DCT?
@@dinosoarskill17 yeah dct
@@AimSucker seems to be common among most that spin them.
Mine slipped at around 50k. Didn't slip enough to cause the valves to get hit so I was lucky. Here's my info.
Tune: Running BM3 Stage 2 93oct tune for over 40k miles
Power: Dyno'd 500whp 520wtq
Transmission: 6MT never had a money shift or any kind of over rev
Driving style: Driven pretty hard but not abused. Track days, hard pulls, some roll races.
Fix: SSR pinned crank hub and VVT crank bolt capture to guarantee the bolt can't back out.
Track days. That would do it.
@@zbabar3000 That shouldn't matter. ///M's are meant to go to the track. You shouldn't have to worry about needing to replace the pistons and entire top-half of your engine from doing a track day in an F8X. It cost me over $3k to fix something that should have been done from the factory.
I should do mine soon then, running e30 so power levels def prob higher also 6 speed. was thinking SSR or RSR. Everything was 3k?
The crankhub will never be an issue stock r&d definitely goes through this, the e92 has rod bearing issues but that’s after 100k miles if Bmw tested the motor to 100k miles they would’ve change it. Crankhub failure is just the cost of modifying ur car shit goes bad happens on every car jus pricier cus pricier car
I know a lot of stage2+ F8X who have had thousands of miles on stock crankhub with no issues. I can't justify spending 4K+ on a 1% chance of you spinning the crankhub.
Most people who spin it drive like dumbasses
it really sucks that these cars are so complex but still have an Achilles heal... unfortunate to say, the engine can't push big power reliably compared to the japanese straight 6's we all know and love. I have accepted that fate.
it definitely can, the crank hub just needs to be upgraded preventatively. the rest of the motor is an absolute marvel and really is lightyears ahead of the old japanese stuff
@@SimplyCarThings Straight from the factory, it can do 500hp staying 'within spec'. anything above that is 'out of spec' and requires upgrading the crankhub. Wish it wasn't like that. I'm sure there are preventative measures taken for other engines to handle more power, but it's just the fact that one small component can hold back the entire engine.
All the older Japanese engines require a complete fuel system, aftermarket engine management, drivetrain components, and an aftermarket turbo to make what an s55 will make with downpipes, a tune and a little ethanol. Even with the cost of the crank hub you’ll be ahead and have a car that is 1000 times nicer
I think "Plagues" is much too strong. I think it's an item of concern for a specific set of owners, but "Plagues" is much, MUCH too strong. Now, if this was like Subaru headgaskets or ringlands, sure, I would agree with you, but it really isn't. I like your content so I just wanted to comment, but I'm gonna do what you said and bounce from this video.
Subaru head gaskets and ring lands come around when you don’t do your maintenance regularly. It doesn’t just pop up. Don’t spread false info pls
@@Accensioni LOOOOOL ok guy. Just keep telling yourself that and your Subaru won't shit the bed. That's how it works.
I agree with you, i just think that the vast majority of my viewers own these cars with the intention of modifying or upgrading them to some degree, in which case the term "plagues" is appropriate. although yes it is a strong word to use
@@gravitygear A lot of my friends Subaru’s haven’t “shit the bed” yet. I know people who still ride their 05 08 etc STI’s with no problems. Ringlands don’t just pop out of nowhere and that’s not how it works tho. Unlike the s55 crankhub which does pop out of nowhere. I’ve seen it fail on stock tunes and stock motors
@@Accensioni Sure. And on the other side, i've known 5 people lose brand new, dealer maintained engines under 50k. All bought brand new within 3 years of each other. I've owned 4 Subarus. Granted, my cars lived hard lives as autox and time attack vehicles, but they were EXTRA maintained. The only one that survived was a MotoIQ build. I've also seen camber boi cars that couldn't go fast enough to run from a segway cop go through ringlands. I was DEEP into the subaru community. Was like being in an abusive relationship for 8 years. You cannot tell me it's a non-issue. My bank account and my friends' will tell you otherwise. BTW, Motul race oil every 1500 miles, coolant flushed every 6 months. NO TURBO UPGRADES, no downpipe.
If you look at Apex Taxi's F8X cars, they live their WHOLE LIVES on the Ring getting pushed to their limits DAILY. They haven't spun a crank hub on either their M4 rental or their M3 taxi. The S55s in their cars will go for 30k+ KM AT FULL BORE. They've died due to other things, but never a crank hub.
I’ve seen so much on yes and no to this but ultimately I figured it was relatively cheap insurance due to some people with stock cars having the problem. 3k to make sure it doesn’t happen or 20k if it actually happens. I’m no mathematician, but one of those numbers is significantly smaller than the other.
For those that are saying it’s a rare issue and it isn’t worth it because of cost - if you can afford to be driving an almost $80k MSRP car then 3k shouldn’t be a problem and if it is then you’re driving the wrong car - your budget income and priorities are all fucked up.
after everything I’ve heard it , seems like the people who break their cars are just bird brains who don’t know how to do proper supporting upgrades to their motor. I don’t see the purpose of doing fuel upgrades when you could just bulletproof your engine first.
Dishing out 4-5k just to mod for more power is not it. Selling for this reason
damn is there any m car that doesn't have a major engine repair owners must research and worry about???
It doesn’t need it. Issa myth
I upset everyone who thinks it's power related and say it's not. It has nothing with power to do.
Explain for me please, I’m debating with myself wether I should make the car 600hp or not
@@zabre200 If you taking yours to 600hp you definitely need the bolt capture done..Madness not to do it.
@@hazzard8760 10000 km so far with nothing that's happened
Big fan of the channel but gotta liven things up if you gonna get on the topic. Hardly anything of value provided to the conversation here opinion or not. No discussion of types of crank hub types. Few if any examples. Listen. to someone monotone review a maintenance part they are considering is as entertaining as listening to someone monotone discuss oil changes and how he once rode wit a guy who waited a month too late on an oil change and the engine died. Correlation does not equal causation. IF you have money to burn and you've spent 5 figures on performance everywhere else its a no brainer. Im personally skeptical on the average owner that isn't trying to push the limits of a car and become surprised when things break. Every platform has things that break when you push past 25% increase in power. Factories build cars tamed a bit lets just say 10% so when you push double past that. You are literally past the capacity and efficiency of numerous components of the car. It seems more appropriate to call this a requisite for Stage 3 vs trying to suggest the average driver need to shell out $3k in parts $1k in labor (if lucky) on a part power hungry guys trying to make 600 hp could've just bought the next tier model car for similar money less stress.
Appreciate your feedback, like I said this wasn’t meant to be an in-depth discussion on crank hub solutions or technical info about the issue. Merely just answering the question posted in the title of the video since i’ve had HUNDREDS of people asking me. I have other videos focusing on solutions, products, installation, technical explanation, etc regarding the crank hub which can be found on my channel
Hey what happend to his other m4 ??
Silver one got totaled at the track. He has a 2018 white one now.
@@JiuJitsuM4 damn did the insurance cover it
Hey man i got a f90 m5 does it have a crankhub? Can i tune it with no worry