fsr 4 still looks bad in motion, look when the little dude moves his arm 6:00. try moving the camera angel as one does all the time when playing. i fear it will look pretty bad.
@@oddicocidic this is performance mode upscaling, 1080p>4k. DLSS also has noticable ghosting at the lower input res upscales we need to see how it looks at quality/ballenced which is what i imagine most people use with DLSS. for performance mode this is very impressive
He's not. It's clear this is much better than UE5. I think Alex got so frustrated at shader stutter he made his own engine and they are using the Digital Foundry engine to create Oliver.
And AI Powered Androids on the Nvidia stage. Hard to believe it's been 1 and a half console generation's and still no GTA6! The PS4/XBOX ONE and PS5/XBOX Series X/S version does not count as a new game. Yes RockStar said 2025 but I'll believe it when I see it. 😁✌️
This will be supported only by the new gen AMD cards. No reason to not support RX 7900 XT ... After open sourcing FSR 3 I was so hyped that they'll be the good guys ... oh well ...
Competition is there. It's just that Nvidia is so far ahead. That IS competition, however. Nvidia's execution and R&D has been amazing. One day it will falter and that will be bad for everyone. Also, card prices are not out of line with the past, considering semiconductor manufacturing prices, general inflation, and die sizes. Maybe as importantly, AMD will no longer try to gain market share by selling their cards at almost no profit. Their stock price run-up does not allow that. They must now continue to be a profitable company or their stock price is going to crash. Intel can do that for now, though, as they they to gain a foothold in the market and as their stock price has already been pummeled. That won't last forever though. They will either gain market share and then increase their prices to something profitable or they will exit the discrete GPU market.
@@danielangelov91 Yeah exactly this. Main advantage of AMD was their open tech that was usable on many cards. This is just DLSS but worse so they lost their only advantage they had on purpose. I am on 7900xtx so wont be upgrading but if they keep going that direction there will be no point in me supporting them and I rather go Nvidia. Only thing keeping my interest in AMD is the fact that they are still sticking with the fireproof 8pin connector on their cards.
@@raypol1 not to mention if DLSS4 is just instantly upgradable for any game with DLSS then its in 1000 games day 1. Im not sure AMD will have that issue solved quite as well.
Definitely. Like, ok, dont show the price if you’re waiting on nvidia, but show 1 minute of “R&C fsr4 performance vs FSR 3.1 performance”. Why just open yourself up to extreme doubt, and let the internet theorize? Lol
@@ArchieBunker11 i think amd didnt show it because it is machine learning, so fsr4 will only work on certain cards (if not only on the newest amd 9000)
@@captainjimo they were at CES, they prepared for CES, and they had working 9000 series cards at CES. This video footage the way DF/HUB showed it should not be how their new tech is unveiled.
Kinda crazy that this was the first time you guys got to meet in person! I hope you two get to do more face-to-face videos together soon. You seem to be good partners for each other in terms of carrying the discussion and getting into details, even more than when you record videos together via separate webcams. Oh, and yeah, FSR4 looks good.
I'm so used to seeing Oliver's round head on DF Direct that I was quite surprised to see that his head is not actually a perfect sphere but the average shaped.
Nobody can accuse AMD of OVER-hyping RDNA4 now. They learned that lesson from the previous releases, but also failed to read the room by not saying enough. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Well their over hyping started off sour by showing a falsely configured benchmark. But I hope AMD puts out some gud stuff...that actually gets produces in masses
@@exoticspeedefy7916 ever used your brain before? FSR4 is AI based and it needs AI accelerators which doesn't exist on older cards. and NVIDIA isn't acting better here let's face it.
For me I rather have clarity but both can be done with some sharpening. If you have a stable image first adding sharpening is eaiser because there aren't any artifacts that becomes worse with sharpening.
@@DrumsBah Funny you say that, most video codecs till recently were tuned to PSNR which caused excessive blur, the x264 (not h.264!) dev posted a bunch of blog posts about this and showed that tuning codecs to artifact a little makes the image quality look better to the human eye/brain (expect for stuff like animation), x264 has a tune parameter that allows you adjust this effect, There's also a lot of research in image scalers that were design to preserve as much sharpness without adding excessive artifacts, which is where "ideal" filters like lanczos come from.
@@DrumsBah in this game the artifacts were really bad. But i find alot of reviewers focus of artifact mostly then when i play the game with fsr its extremely blurry even at 4k quality and the artifact well who cares because its looks like 1080p.
@@DigitalFoundry Alex and/or Oliver, how do you guys feel this unreleased version of FSR4 currently stacks up against PSSR whilst actually in motion during normal gameplay? I guess it's hard to demonstrate that to us with handy cam video footage and also on TH-cam's 10k bit rate lol but I'm curious with your initial impressions? Cheers.
Oliver has been released from his neon light game cube virtual space and is here in the flesh with the A man?! 2025 will indeed be a very different year
@@cyberpunk59 implementing raytracing is a lot of work implementing fsr3 is not especially because almost every game has fsr2 instead 3, this is simply unacceptable dlss 3 had over 100 games in the same time frame
@@terrachad24 it might be, but ray tracing is considered to be much more of a selling point than upscalers. And if the results are as good as what we are seeing, devs might treat fsr 3 and 4 with more attention than what they did with fsr 3 alone. Just like you said, they did care with fsr 2 after all, at least, if I were a game dev and looking at which upscalers to implement, with the high probability that it will work even on rx 7000 gpus, I would treat fsr more seriously than before, along with dlss. Especially thanks to its supposed translatability from 3.1 to 4.
Imagine if they did talk about it though. "We have FSR4 coming, but it's currently still under progress and we only have a research sample." How would that look. Especially when Nvidia says their new DLSS will come out supporting over 50 titles and apps. They are trying to advertise it when it is absolutely ready to prevent any more fuck ups it seems. Remember Anti-lag 2 and how it caused huge problems because it simply wasn't matured enough but pushed out of despair. It left such a stain on AMD. This is for the better. Do it once, do it proper.
From a business perspective it's not even close to the most exciting thing. The AI is where the money is, and at the end of the day that's the only thing that matters for a company. After Ai, at the second place are mobile chips, third are server and cloud services, and at the end are gaming gpus. The reason why they haven't talked about it is because it's not ready yet, and this video confirms it.
The context behind this is really interesting. Several other outlets have discussed "regular" previews of FSR 4, with a comparison, and with marketing materials from AMD. Digital Foundry didn't get that invite, but the reps in the room knew them, and were running a test on their main upscaling reference game, and seem to have decided to give them a sneak look on that basis.
Alex's comment earlier the video made it seem like the AMD reps were surprised to see Digital Foundry there. Maybe an invite wasn't sent out because they didn't expect DF to make the trip to Vegas? Crossed wires, basically.
Since it's declared as research project, it could also be that it has been trained exclusively on Ratchet and Clank, meaning that they could be using training data as test data in this case which is not indicative whether the model can generalize, i.e. have good quality in general
Actually would be kind of funny if they only trained it on the opening sequence of R&C. Go further in the game and suddenly the overfitted model spits out a psychedelic mess or something
@@JROCC0625 I think so too, since Sony and AMD together announced their 'Amethyst' project it would make sense that those titles are allowed to be used for training also for FSR not only PSSR
As a note, they could be using a % of training data as “test” (I think you mean “validation”) data regardless of whether the data is from one game or many, that’s not inherently a problem that’s just a standard validation set, but it might become a problem when the model is tested on held out data (i.e. a true test set that is never exposed during model training - a game that wasn’t in the training or validation sets), which correlates with your point about generalization. Also, to your point, they may have used exclusively R&C data which would bias the model towards R&C looking great but others not so much. Per the mention of overfitting - not very likely because the loss function used during training determines when early stopping occurs, which prevents overfitting. What’s more likely in that scenario is the further you go from the starting section, the more covariate drift you have, and the model gradually declines in performance the further you go.
@@VincentVanBro Thanks for those details 👍🏽 I find this stuff really fascinating altho I am kinda noob - altho I played around with custom models in pytorch and supervised & reinforcement learning...that field is really progressing rapidly
The biggest thing I noticed was the ship engine trails around the top of the screen at ~8:00. It was leaving a long smear trail as it crossed the building edges, that took seconds to dissipate on the older version, but nothing on the new one.
Wait up! I just need to say it feels so good having you two together in the same room ^^ I also wish you guys a grand 2025, have a good one, cheers from france
Wow, as someone who still struggles to see the difference of PSSR on Pro vs other versions, I have to say, even filmed off screen the differences here between FSR3.1 and FSR4 are immediately recognizable and significant. Great reporting right there, thanks for the video!
I have to say I'm impressed. I didn't think AMD would improve their upscaling so much vs FSR 3, at least if this holds up to proper testing at release. We are only getting a look at a single game running at a single resolution and quality configuration.
Yeah PSSR was pretty "impressive" too with its picked titles before launch. We can all read a box on the surface and assume great things inside without knowing, and corporations obviously know it. I don't know how AMD fans immediately jump to their knees ready to do work with the most minimal of effort from these corporations. And before you bring up Nvidia, I haven't seen that behavior at all as with both Nvidia/Intel I read bad things about 99% of the time, each day, while AMD fans are so sucky sucky with every version of something before release. They truly deserve what they have received, for letting their corporation know it is all about presentation, not execution.
@@Mcnooblet "It's all about presentation, not execution" this is an offscreen demo and it's not even properly named lmfao People are excited because some of the omnipresent issues that people like Alex have pointed out since the launch of FSR2 aren't here.
@@Ziplock9000 Yeah it was obviously going to be better I'm just surprised it looks this good in a first showing, particularly after what happened with PSSR. On that note it confuses me greatly that Sony and AMD didn't just work together to create one upscaler.
Great coverage with what you have. A treat to see both of you together in person covering the "AMD Research project" together. Good job with the camera, I usually watch on my 4K OLED TV and I could easily see the difference between FSR 3.1 and "FSR Research". It does look significantly better. It looks so good, it might make me hold off on upgrading from my AMD 6800u handheld (Ayaneo 2) and instead wait for handheld late this year or early next year that can do FSR 4 AI based upscaling that looks like this.
The more that comes out of what amds event the more promising it seems. Im just worried they are going to shoot them selves in the foot by not understanding they have to undercut the 5070 even if there product is better to gain market share.
AMD has been undercutting, every tech blogger points out that AMD is usually the better value for money option, the issue is that RTX features have been *very good* marketing and people especially those not paying attention to benchmarks and tech bloggers will happily pay more money for less RAM and semi-useless features like ray-tracing, and with recent trends the common man really can't go above 1080p level performance, so they usually want something like DLSS for their 1440p, 165hz monitor. Oh was I so naive to think that I'd be upgrading my 1600x1200 CRT to something far higher res any time soon in 2006 lol.
the fact is amd's fanboy's mantra about "we dont need RT, we dont need fake frames" is no longer valid to any extent. RT is becoming standard, just as much as upscaling is already a standard. And frame generation is so good, it cant be thrown away from your decision. Undercutting by itself is not enough from now on, amd has to provide modern features (at least for those AAA games, leaving aside all the indie)
@@PhilosophicalSock Upscaling is NOT a standard wtf? I don't use upscaling. a leak from the 9070 showed it played bo6 native in 4k extreme at 99 fps. I will not be using upscaling any time soon. Too much latency involved
Now we just need standardised API for upscaling for all vendors, so any game can have their .dll swapped for a different vendors upscaler. That way, be it a game only supporting DLSS, XeSS, FSR or something else, you can change it easily to the one you like or the one that runs better on your hardware
That would be nice... but this is a constantly evolving field, even different generations of cards can't always use the same algorithm - I foresee that it will take at least 5 more years before that's feasible. So until Upscaling is clearly defined in something like Vulkan, I'm not sure it would even be a point in making a thin layer of API-software which DLSS, FSR or Algorithm-X connects into.
I think Nvidia and Amd have an agreed gpu cartel, and this "research project' is "too good", and "too much improvement", and they want to sell us their gpus with less improvement each year...😅
Well I guess this is accurate. Year by year companies needs to offer improvements on its product to made the user feel the necessities of bought the new one. I'm pretty sure Nvidia has their "GPU improvements" covered for at least 5 years (exclussiveness of a GPU serie: RTX 40 = DLSS3.5. Now RTX 50 = DLSS4. u name it) and they're releasing slashed products instead of just launching the full version because u know.. They like money ("THEY" referred to every single companies in the world)
Of course, they name it research project because they haven't announced anything yet. I say "Good job AMD"...I have been enjoying DLSS and always looked down on FSR but I'm super happy to see them improve. I do not like the Nvidia monopoly, but also, they have been the best so you cannot take that away from them.
nvidia's engineers are top-end. I am proud of them, being an engineer myself. but you have all rights to hate nvidia's monopoly. it is just what you always get as a result of a competition in capitalism
It looks really good vs the previous FSR. It's amazing how quickly we've gone from TAA to DLSS 1.0 to now where it's seeming like game upscaling is close to being solved.
@@gavinderulo12yeah I'm really looking forward to seeing how FSR 4 and DLSS 4 stack up to one another. I still expect DLSS to be superior, but it looks like FSR is finally getting to the threshold to where the artifacts won't bother me.
the next big jump will be making Asynchronous Reprojection into a common game feature so that we can leverage high refresh monitors even if the game is rendering at only 60hz. im sick of it being a VR exclusive. for those who dont know what that means, basically it massively reduces input lag on your mouse/camera by decoupling camera updates from world updates, so you can render the game at 60 fps even if its only updating at 30 fps, which would instantly be super helpful for low end graphics card.
Upscaling also seems somewhat more important than frame generation, because upscaling really doesn't have on the whole any downsides to native or TAA, it's simply better overall for the same resulting frame rate, especially when based on machine learning. Frame generation, on the other hand, including Nvidia's new 4x frame gen, still has the downside of increasing latency. So many people don't want to use it. Though Nvidia new DLSS models use transformers now instead of CNNs, so the quality of the upscaling could be better than FSR4. Let's see.
@cube2fox Yeah, but also I think a lot of the people who complain about the latency wouldn't notice it in a side by side test. If nobody told them FG came with latency they wouldn't have noticed lol It's really not that bad and most people aren't as sensitive to it as they like to think they are.
Sony PlayStation said and confirmed that they are teaming up with AMD for specific targeted research for PSSR and other AI/ Machine Learning research for games graphics. Could this be part of that collaborative research?
is amd going to continue to upgrade the upscaler for 3.1? sort of like how nvidia still upgrades dlss but locks out frame generation to the older cards? or are they only upgrading the upscaler and frame generation for the newer cards and 3.1 is staying as is forever
Good question - I hope not! I think, looking at FSR2 might be a good idea here - has it continued to receive updates in-between FSR3 and 3.1? If so, they probably will, but otherwise... probably not.
I'm just very glad that the obvious PS vs XBox fanboy slanging match was shut down by Alex on the spot with no ambiguity. No FSR4 isn't what PSSR is somehow going to be capable of. They are not related. Thank you Alex! Giving AMD their deserved credit and stopping the obvious path to BS and mis-information the fanboys would have hijacked this conversation with!
So if AMD GPUs don’t have dedicated AI/RTX cores then wouldn’t ai based FSR slow down performance having to use the regular gpu cores to run the AI model
Great work on this , especially given all of the unique constraints!! What an interesting story. This video makes me feel a bit like I was there for all the oddness.
It's neat stuff to have as option, especially years down the line. Though I would prefer to run native 4K for example and just have proper options for AA as extra. Sadly devs don't offer that, even some don't allow to disable certain things, or if so for some I've seen that then some graphical options are not available, lame. To even add that they don't bother with optimizations too. Now when we go beyond 4K I'd care more about upscale for sure, as you're at least running 4K natively so good info in it and higher pixel density. Still good stuff to see for sure. Curious to see new GPUs I'd expect FG too, though I'm whatever about that too.
no. the FSR 4 will be shown with the announcement for the new PC gpu. this is where they will show FSR 4. they usually show the new gpu on their standalone AMD presentation that is shown after CES.
used FSR 3 for the first time the other day on stalker 2 with my 7800 XT. framerate went from 50 to over 100 with no change in visual or input latency. truly impressive.
I imagine this being like in the movie TRON, where little elves have a few nanoseconds to healbrush the incoming jpgs and send them back to the user before the time runs out.
@@ac1dflare937 could just be the name of the GPU die, e.g. the die of the 6900 XT was called Navi 21 XTX. Doesn't necessarily mean there will be a graphics card with the XTX suffix.
Good to see FSR 4 is looking pretty solid. AMD have been a bit behind the curve in the upscaling game, choosing compatibility over fidelity. But this is looking like a serious step to closing the gap. Something they're gonna need if they're looking to be the go-to GPU for the midrange. Also, I love that Ratchet & Clank has been the game to test all these fancy new technologies in. Either Nixxes just really loves that game or something else about it makes it a good testing ground.
That performance mode looks amazing. I normally never use performance mode with DLSS since it can have softness and shimmer but this FSR4 video looks like it's actually quality mode.
@@Amdlo Indeed, it's not perfect - but then neither is DLSS, going off the 5080 preview in Cyberpunk the other day. FSR previously could be argued wasn't "good enough" to go toe to toe with DLSS. Based on this and HUBs footage, I reckon if you showed someone DLSS footage and "FSR4" footage, they'd have a hard time telling them apart without really specific knowledge of how each one works. That's a big step for AMD to make, and absolutely wasn't the case with FSR3.1
Chill guys, In a recent interview with amd head of arquitecture say that they need more time to optimize fsr 4 because As it is now requires heavy ia hardware atm, but when they optimize it, it will work on rdna3.
@@SapiaNt0mata I'm pretty sure that's a software-developers choice, on what framework to use - as you probably know, FSR is available on Playstation and Xbox as well.
That carpet issue is the single biggest, most annoying artifact I've noticed relying on FSR these past couple years. Shame it's seemingly not being backported to earlier RDNA generations.
@@Phil_529but not as separate units like we see on nvidia GPUs. Amd can just accelerate AI workloads if necessary but it can't render and run AI at the same time. At least not in a performant way.
The footage looks amazing here. Two theories. (1) making an upscaler that only runs on the latest new graphics card has 'removed the shackles' of making FSR work on absolutely anything, and unlocked a huge improvement. (2) FSR 4 has been trained on a small handful of games, and this is one of them, so it looks better here than it will in other places. When PSSR came out, I warned that it looks amazing on its core training games, but it's one thing to make machine learning work on its training data, and another thing to make machine learning work well on *other* data. As great as this looks, the same caveat still applies.
Ratchet and Clank is a Sony-game though - you'd think, if they trained it on their core-games primarily, that it would look comparable to FSR4, yes? Obviously it doesn't - PSSR is disappointing in that game, which does inspire some confidence that AMD has made a better algorithm in general.
The problem I can see happening is that if FSR 4 is going to be exclusive to 9000 series GPU's, dev's simply won't put in the additional time to add it in to games as they know 90% of people will still be on 7000 GPU's. So either FSR 4 needs to find a way onto the 7000 series or the 9000 series need to be extremely competitively priced to make FSR 4 viable.
AMD standardized the modularity of FSR in their DLL with FSR 3.0. That means new versions can simply be dropped in. Presumably FSR 4.0 is compatible as well, so I would imagine if a dev wants to support FSR 3 which runs on everything, that automatically means they support FSR 4.
Devs don't need to add FSR4 specifically, only 3.1. The AMD driver will do the swap from 3.1 to 4.0 for 9000 owners. So unless devs keep using FSR 2.0 or 3.0 and not 3.1, FSR4 will be widespread. Plus DLSS at a time only worked with 20 series, and it still got adoption.
@@Alcatraz760 RDNA 3 also has some, albeit likely much slower, XDNA hardware for AI compute. It remains to be seen if any kind of ML FSR implementation gets backported to RDNA 3. I think it's a slim chance though.
Wonder if they'll stumble upon the Path Tracing demo that AMD has too, I've started seeing some people report that exists. Sounds like AMD is finally catching up to at least the 4000 series features.
still work to do, there's significant ghosting trails, but this looks a lot better. I hope AMD can speed up FSR development because the lack of DLSS competition is the main reason Nvidia can keep prices so high
It's a part of it - but I don't think it's the main reason. The main reason is simply that Nvidia has trained customers to automatically want Nvidia-cards, even when the feature they want (Ray-tracing, for instance) doesn't actually work on the card they can afford. (you need a 4090 for actually worthwhile RT... meanwhile people are still buying 3060's, thinking they can turn RT on.)
@predabot__6778 you don't need a 4090 for worthwhile RT. I had a 2060 super that was underpowered AF and still took advantage of it to a reasonable extent.
Could be a work on progress pssr version.😂😂😢 whatever we're seeing here yoi can bet yoir behind will be implemented in a future pssr version. Duhhh... amd and Sony are in a partnership with ML AI. Hence whybthisnos called research project. Mkre than likely this is Sony and amd in a future ML version of pssr and fsr 4😂😢 cope harder mate.
@@dsidebothamlearn to write and no. FSR 4 and PSSR are 2 different things. You Will only see upgrades of Sony's tech in PS6 but until then, PSSR is the worst scaler out of the 3
Eh I'll believe it when I see it in motion myself. I have done many comparisons of DLSS vs FSR, and FSR was clearly inferior in all cases except one - FF16, because DLSS has no ingame sharpening setting and FSR does, so DLSS looks blurry
Would be time for a lossless scaling update 3.0. Video. Up to 20x framegen, better quality with scaling, 25% less delay, 45% less gpu utilization , gsync support. With this an update from 40 to 50 series seems a lot less tempting, especially considering that all the other 50 series upgrades (better ray reconstruction , lighter dlss4, better fg) are all coming to 40 series as well. Kudos for your awesome work! Never missed a video 🙏✌🏼❤️
@@Codyslx perhaps, but it's not about bringing FSR4 to every available GPU. A lot of people buy NVIDIA GPU's for DLSS, but with AMD rivaling it with a competent upscaler and cheaper prices, perhaps more people will move over.
@makimwah Nvidia's gpu's actually have ai cores thought while older amd only has ai accelerators. It makes sense to bring to the Nvidia gpus since they actually have the hardware and fssr4 is not rivaling dlss4. It caught up to dlss3 at the very least.
@@makimwah and what exactly makes you think amd prices are gona be cheaper IF (!) they have a competitive product? All the way amd was cheaper just because they were far behind nvidia's tech and they had to massively undercut to sell anything at all
I feel like it speaks well for the FSR 4 when you can see the improvements through a cameras capture of a screen. Super excited to see more of this.
Hell yeah
And it's performance mode
fsr 4 still looks bad in motion, look when the little dude moves his arm 6:00. try moving the camera angel as one does all the time when playing. i fear it will look pretty bad.
@@oddicocidic this is performance mode upscaling, 1080p>4k. DLSS also has noticable ghosting at the lower input res upscales
we need to see how it looks at quality/ballenced which is what i imagine most people use with DLSS. for performance mode this is very impressive
And if you want ``DLSS 4 multi fake frame generation`` on AMD... you can buy Lossless scaling for like 5$ and it does it on every game ever.
I'm still convinced Oliver isn't real but a unreal engine 5 tech demo by digital foundry
Ha 😂
😂😂😂
Its clearly Richards Metahuman *g*
He's not. It's clear this is much better than UE5. I think Alex got so frustrated at shader stutter he made his own engine and they are using the Digital Foundry engine to create Oliver.
Too round to be fake. Know how many polygons would need to be rendered?😂
We got a Alex and Oliver lower torso reveals before GTA 6
Lol ur right
Ahaha😂
And AI Powered Androids on the Nvidia stage. Hard to believe it's been 1 and a half console generation's and still no GTA6! The PS4/XBOX ONE and PS5/XBOX Series X/S version does not count as a new game. Yes RockStar said 2025 but I'll believe it when I see it. 😁✌️
If not else we both know it's worth to wait, I mean no mofo makes an other GTA 5 or a red dead redemption 2
until i see them in full i refuse to believe that they aren't puppets controlled by Richard "Bespoke" Leadbetter
Competition is definitely needed - here's to AMD and Intel normalizing mid-end card prices.
This will be supported only by the new gen AMD cards. No reason to not support RX 7900 XT ... After open sourcing FSR 3 I was so hyped that they'll be the good guys ... oh well ...
Competition is there. It's just that Nvidia is so far ahead. That IS competition, however. Nvidia's execution and R&D has been amazing. One day it will falter and that will be bad for everyone. Also, card prices are not out of line with the past, considering semiconductor manufacturing prices, general inflation, and die sizes.
Maybe as importantly, AMD will no longer try to gain market share by selling their cards at almost no profit. Their stock price run-up does not allow that. They must now continue to be a profitable company or their stock price is going to crash. Intel can do that for now, though, as they they to gain a foothold in the market and as their stock price has already been pummeled. That won't last forever though. They will either gain market share and then increase their prices to something profitable or they will exit the discrete GPU market.
@@danielangelov91 Yeah exactly this. Main advantage of AMD was their open tech that was usable on many cards. This is just DLSS but worse so they lost their only advantage they had on purpose. I am on 7900xtx so wont be upgrading but if they keep going that direction there will be no point in me supporting them and I rather go Nvidia. Only thing keeping my interest in AMD is the fact that they are still sticking with the fireproof 8pin connector on their cards.
RDNA3 have AI cores. It might get in the future to get good guy points when selling point for RDNA4 stops being valuable enough @@raypol1
@@raypol1 not to mention if DLSS4 is just instantly upgradable for any game with DLSS then its in 1000 games day 1. Im not sure AMD will have that issue solved quite as well.
DF Crew in the same room again! What a pleasant surprise!
correct me if I'm wrong, but i have never seen any of them in the same room together.
@@BeardedHeavy what are you implying
He means one of them may be the Batman
@@BeardedHeavy Definitely happened at least a few times now.
Oliver implies at the end of this video that this was the first time in person.
Two of the DF team captured by one camera!? Breathing the same air? AI is getting scary...
You think that is air what you are breathing? 😅
@@frankstollar8492 I like that reference.
So weird when FSR4 seems to be such a huge improvement over FSR3 to hide it like this lol
Definitely. Like, ok, dont show the price if you’re waiting on nvidia, but show 1 minute of “R&C fsr4 performance vs FSR 3.1 performance”. Why just open yourself up to extreme doubt, and let the internet theorize? Lol
amd has shit marketing.
They were literally showing it to anyone who walked by. But ok.
@@ArchieBunker11 i think amd didnt show it because it is machine learning, so fsr4 will only work on certain cards (if not only on the newest amd 9000)
@@captainjimo they were at CES, they prepared for CES, and they had working 9000 series cards at CES. This video footage the way DF/HUB showed it should not be how their new tech is unveiled.
Kinda crazy that this was the first time you guys got to meet in person! I hope you two get to do more face-to-face videos together soon. You seem to be good partners for each other in terms of carrying the discussion and getting into details, even more than when you record videos together via separate webcams.
Oh, and yeah, FSR4 looks good.
Yes yes but it's so weird that AMD didn't even talk about the best stuff they can offer. I think it will be another Radeon mess, as always
Great to see the boys together in person! They should do a vlog type of video in CES.
I'm so used to seeing Oliver's round head on DF Direct that I was quite surprised to see that his head is not actually a perfect sphere but the average shaped.
No streaking or ghosting
Is it bespoke?
Yep, Ninite is on
I love the df audience lmaoo
it has quite a bespoke boundary volume
Nobody can accuse AMD of OVER-hyping RDNA4 now. They learned that lesson from the previous releases, but also failed to read the room by not saying enough. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Well their over hyping started off sour by showing a falsely configured benchmark. But I hope AMD puts out some gud stuff...that actually gets produces in masses
@@AlpineTheHusky They have shown zero benchmarks what are you even talking about.....
It's not finished.
Locking FSR4 feature to RDNA4 is not going to make me buy an RDNA4 card. It just annoys me and make me want to go NVIDIA
@@exoticspeedefy7916 ever used your brain before? FSR4 is AI based and it needs AI accelerators which doesn't exist on older cards.
and NVIDIA isn't acting better here let's face it.
A sharp image is the most important thing to me, Artifacts are annoying but blur ruins the entire image.
It's all relative. A bit of blur is better than some artifacts but a lot of blur certainly isn't.
For me I rather have clarity but both can be done with some sharpening. If you have a stable image first adding sharpening is eaiser because there aren't any artifacts that becomes worse with sharpening.
@@DrumsBah Funny you say that, most video codecs till recently were tuned to PSNR which caused excessive blur, the x264 (not h.264!) dev posted a bunch of blog posts about this and showed that tuning codecs to artifact a little makes the image quality look better to the human eye/brain (expect for stuff like animation), x264 has a tune parameter that allows you adjust this effect, There's also a lot of research in image scalers that were design to preserve as much sharpness without adding excessive artifacts, which is where "ideal" filters like lanczos come from.
@@DrumsBah in this game the artifacts were really bad. But i find alot of reviewers focus of artifact mostly then when i play the game with fsr its extremely blurry even at 4k quality and the artifact well who cares because its looks like 1080p.
blur can easily be fixed on PC. download Reshade, install Clarity effect, done. you can also use Lumasharpen effect to sharpen the image.
0:14 When your parent calls your by your full name.
It's like how Rich always says "Playstation Five Professional"
Love that style of videos guys. So strange to see that you have legs
Legs are actually AI generated in this case
You should share this AI solution to meta, see if they can finally add proper legs to their VR avatars!😂 @@DigitalFoundry
@@DigitalFoundry Alex and/or Oliver, how do you guys feel this unreleased version of FSR4 currently stacks up against PSSR whilst actually in motion during normal gameplay?
I guess it's hard to demonstrate that to us with handy cam video footage and also on TH-cam's 10k bit rate lol but I'm curious with your initial impressions?
Cheers.
Where did you see their legs???
Oliver has been released from his neon light game cube virtual space and is here in the flesh with the A man?! 2025 will indeed be a very different year
PSSR, FSR 4, DLSS 4,... Are we finally reaching the new age of anti aliasing? I just hope FSR 4 is going to be implemented in as many games as DLSS 4.
it won't there are like 20 games with fsr 3 over a year after its release it also is a rx9000 exclusive feature
At least Microsoft is making it easier for games to implement it
@@terrachad2420 games pver a year isn't too bad. Ray tracing has been out for much longer, yet it doesn't see much more popularity for game devs
@@cyberpunk59 implementing raytracing is a lot of work implementing fsr3 is not especially because almost every game has fsr2 instead 3, this is simply unacceptable dlss 3 had over 100 games in the same time frame
@@terrachad24 it might be, but ray tracing is considered to be much more of a selling point than upscalers. And if the results are as good as what we are seeing, devs might treat fsr 3 and 4 with more attention than what they did with fsr 3 alone. Just like you said, they did care with fsr 2 after all, at least, if I were a game dev and looking at which upscalers to implement, with the high probability that it will work even on rx 7000 gpus, I would treat fsr more seriously than before, along with dlss. Especially thanks to its supposed translatability from 3.1 to 4.
Its so weird that AMD didn't even talk about their gpu or this tech, the most exciting things to show...sad
Strix Halo is definitely the most exciting thing at the show for me.
Waited for Nvidia cards specs and prices.
Imagine if they did talk about it though. "We have FSR4 coming, but it's currently still under progress and we only have a research sample." How would that look. Especially when Nvidia says their new DLSS will come out supporting over 50 titles and apps.
They are trying to advertise it when it is absolutely ready to prevent any more fuck ups it seems. Remember Anti-lag 2 and how it caused huge problems because it simply wasn't matured enough but pushed out of despair. It left such a stain on AMD.
This is for the better. Do it once, do it proper.
From a business perspective it's not even close to the most exciting thing. The AI is where the money is, and at the end of the day that's the only thing that matters for a company. After Ai, at the second place are mobile chips, third are server and cloud services, and at the end are gaming gpus. The reason why they haven't talked about it is because it's not ready yet, and this video confirms it.
@@bo-_t_-rs1152 AI is where the SCAM is you mean
The context behind this is really interesting. Several other outlets have discussed "regular" previews of FSR 4, with a comparison, and with marketing materials from AMD. Digital Foundry didn't get that invite, but the reps in the room knew them, and were running a test on their main upscaling reference game, and seem to have decided to give them a sneak look on that basis.
Great and not so great for them...
Any random twitch streamers were allowed to see this preview, it wasnt exclusive
Alex's comment earlier the video made it seem like the AMD reps were surprised to see Digital Foundry there. Maybe an invite wasn't sent out because they didn't expect DF to make the trip to Vegas?
Crossed wires, basically.
Since it's declared as research project, it could also be that it has been trained exclusively on Ratchet and Clank, meaning that they could be using training data as test data in this case which is not indicative whether the model can generalize, i.e. have good quality in general
Actually would be kind of funny if they only trained it on the opening sequence of R&C. Go further in the game and suddenly the overfitted model spits out a psychedelic mess or something
Its a Playstation title which amd made so there gonna look better than most amd games * unlike Nvidia sponsored games 👀
@@JROCC0625 I think so too, since Sony and AMD together announced their 'Amethyst' project it would make sense that those titles are allowed to be used for training also for FSR not only PSSR
As a note, they could be using a % of training data as “test” (I think you mean “validation”) data regardless of whether the data is from one game or many, that’s not inherently a problem that’s just a standard validation set, but it might become a problem when the model is tested on held out data (i.e. a true test set that is never exposed during model training - a game that wasn’t in the training or validation sets), which correlates with your point about generalization. Also, to your point, they may have used exclusively R&C data which would bias the model towards R&C looking great but others not so much. Per the mention of overfitting - not very likely because the loss function used during training determines when early stopping occurs, which prevents overfitting. What’s more likely in that scenario is the further you go from the starting section, the more covariate drift you have, and the model gradually declines in performance the further you go.
@@VincentVanBro Thanks for those details 👍🏽 I find this stuff really fascinating altho I am kinda noob - altho I played around with custom models in pytorch and supervised & reinforcement learning...that field is really progressing rapidly
The singular form of "confetti" is "confetto".
Who knows about this from the Big Bang Theory show?
Wait so does this mean I can "grab a pizzo" instead of a "piece of pizza" ???
@@chris42069 not it does not lol
Itsa me a mario
@@chris42069 ”pizza” is singular, “pizze” is plural.
I really hope the example games used to demo both DLSS4 and FSR4 used are not just games that received special optimization to show such improvements.
The biggest thing I noticed was the ship engine trails around the top of the screen at ~8:00. It was leaving a long smear trail as it crossed the building edges, that took seconds to dissipate on the older version, but nothing on the new one.
If FSR4 doesnt support the rx 7900 XTX im going to be pissed
would love to sit and have a few drinks with these 2 and talk about gaming tech.
I would mostly be asking questions and nodding my head though lol!
Be careful
Wait up! I just need to say it feels so good having you two together in the same room ^^
I also wish you guys a grand 2025, have a good one, cheers from france
that dead pixel in alexs closeup cam really had me checking my monitor.
Wow, as someone who still struggles to see the difference of PSSR on Pro vs other versions, I have to say, even filmed off screen the differences here between FSR3.1 and FSR4 are immediately recognizable and significant. Great reporting right there, thanks for the video!
You are blind if you dont see big difference in games like space marine 2.
Biased blind a person
Xbot
@@StarfeyXbot confirmed
Hardware Unboxed managed to get some really good shorts from this booth if anyone is curious for more footage.
I love the energy between these two guys.
I have to say I'm impressed. I didn't think AMD would improve their upscaling so much vs FSR 3, at least if this holds up to proper testing at release. We are only getting a look at a single game running at a single resolution and quality configuration.
Yeah PSSR was pretty "impressive" too with its picked titles before launch. We can all read a box on the surface and assume great things inside without knowing, and corporations obviously know it. I don't know how AMD fans immediately jump to their knees ready to do work with the most minimal of effort from these corporations. And before you bring up Nvidia, I haven't seen that behavior at all as with both Nvidia/Intel I read bad things about 99% of the time, each day, while AMD fans are so sucky sucky with every version of something before release. They truly deserve what they have received, for letting their corporation know it is all about presentation, not execution.
@@Mcnooblet "It's all about presentation, not execution" this is an offscreen demo and it's not even properly named lmfao
People are excited because some of the omnipresent issues that people like Alex have pointed out since the launch of FSR2 aren't here.
We always knew it was possible if they moved to dedicated AI instead of an algorithmic approach.
@@Ziplock9000 Yeah it was obviously going to be better I'm just surprised it looks this good in a first showing, particularly after what happened with PSSR. On that note it confuses me greatly that Sony and AMD didn't just work together to create one upscaler.
why not? 3 is noticeable improvement compared to 2.
If it like that good In performance i can’t imagine what it looks like in quality
Oh now are good the upscalers poor RadeonBoys?
Only artefact I noticed were the trails on the confetti over the red carpet
Good too see these two together! have fun at CES!
Great coverage with what you have. A treat to see both of you together in person covering the "AMD Research project" together. Good job with the camera, I usually watch on my 4K OLED TV and I could easily see the difference between FSR 3.1 and "FSR Research". It does look significantly better. It looks so good, it might make me hold off on upgrading from my AMD 6800u handheld (Ayaneo 2) and instead wait for handheld late this year or early next year that can do FSR 4 AI based upscaling that looks like this.
The more that comes out of what amds event the more promising it seems. Im just worried they are going to shoot them selves in the foot by not understanding they have to undercut the 5070 even if there product is better to gain market share.
yep i've been saying for months, the 9070xt NEEDS to be $499 or its DOA
AMD has been undercutting, every tech blogger points out that AMD is usually the better value for money option, the issue is that RTX features have been *very good* marketing and people especially those not paying attention to benchmarks and tech bloggers will happily pay more money for less RAM and semi-useless features like ray-tracing, and with recent trends the common man really can't go above 1080p level performance, so they usually want something like DLSS for their 1440p, 165hz monitor. Oh was I so naive to think that I'd be upgrading my 1600x1200 CRT to something far higher res any time soon in 2006 lol.
the fact is amd's fanboy's mantra about "we dont need RT, we dont need fake frames" is no longer valid to any extent.
RT is becoming standard, just as much as upscaling is already a standard. And frame generation is so good, it cant be thrown away from your decision.
Undercutting by itself is not enough from now on, amd has to provide modern features (at least for those AAA games, leaving aside all the indie)
@@woobilicious. You cannot deny, Nvidia's marketing is Top Tier. I'm an AMD fanboy but I give them kudos there.
@@PhilosophicalSock Upscaling is NOT a standard wtf?
I don't use upscaling.
a leak from the 9070 showed it played bo6 native in 4k extreme at 99 fps. I will not be using upscaling any time soon. Too much latency involved
Ratchet and Clank's First Level Image Fidelity will be a unit of measure that'll beat the test of time. Mark my words.
Always great to see you guys!
First I tought, what impressive green screen trick, to see this 2 guys together
Now we just need standardised API for upscaling for all vendors, so any game can have their .dll swapped for a different vendors upscaler.
That way, be it a game only supporting DLSS, XeSS, FSR or something else, you can change it easily to the one you like or the one that runs better on your hardware
That would be nice... but this is a constantly evolving field, even different generations of cards can't always use the same algorithm - I foresee that it will take at least 5 more years before that's feasible.
So until Upscaling is clearly defined in something like Vulkan, I'm not sure it would even be a point in making a thin layer of API-software which DLSS, FSR or Algorithm-X connects into.
... I honestlhy just want to not have to use DLSS to run a modern game when I have an RTX 4070. How did this become the norm?
@@alexanderstormdahl2562thank nvidia marketinf dlss as a replacement for traditional optimization and rasterized perfomance
Translation- AMD needed some time to reconsider their pricing given Nvidia’s presentation
Wow fsr 4 looks great! getting more and more excited for rdna 4
I think Nvidia and Amd have an agreed gpu cartel, and this "research project' is "too good", and "too much improvement", and they want to sell us their gpus with less improvement each year...😅
Well I guess this is accurate. Year by year companies needs to offer improvements on its product to made the user feel the necessities of bought the new one. I'm pretty sure Nvidia has their "GPU improvements" covered for at least 5 years (exclussiveness of a GPU serie: RTX 40 = DLSS3.5. Now RTX 50 = DLSS4. u name it) and they're releasing slashed products instead of just launching the full version because u know.. They like money ("THEY" referred to every single companies in the world)
Wow Oli is bigger in real life! FSR 4 looks great btw.
These dudes together is better than any tech unveil.
Of course, they name it research project because they haven't announced anything yet. I say "Good job AMD"...I have been enjoying DLSS and always looked down on FSR but I'm super happy to see them improve. I do not like the Nvidia monopoly, but also, they have been the best so you cannot take that away from them.
nvidia's engineers are top-end. I am proud of them, being an engineer myself.
but you have all rights to hate nvidia's monopoly. it is just what you always get as a result of a competition in capitalism
Didn't know you guys have never met in person! That's super fun! Nice you're sharing the expense together, that makes for fun travels.
It looks really good vs the previous FSR. It's amazing how quickly we've gone from TAA to DLSS 1.0 to now where it's seeming like game upscaling is close to being solved.
Dlss 4 seems to be another big jump
@@gavinderulo12yeah I'm really looking forward to seeing how FSR 4 and DLSS 4 stack up to one another.
I still expect DLSS to be superior, but it looks like FSR is finally getting to the threshold to where the artifacts won't bother me.
the next big jump will be making Asynchronous Reprojection into a common game feature so that we can leverage high refresh monitors even if the game is rendering at only 60hz. im sick of it being a VR exclusive.
for those who dont know what that means, basically it massively reduces input lag on your mouse/camera by decoupling camera updates from world updates, so you can render the game at 60 fps even if its only updating at 30 fps, which would instantly be super helpful for low end graphics card.
Upscaling also seems somewhat more important than frame generation, because upscaling really doesn't have on the whole any downsides to native or TAA, it's simply better overall for the same resulting frame rate, especially when based on machine learning. Frame generation, on the other hand, including Nvidia's new 4x frame gen, still has the downside of increasing latency. So many people don't want to use it. Though Nvidia new DLSS models use transformers now instead of CNNs, so the quality of the upscaling could be better than FSR4. Let's see.
@cube2fox Yeah, but also I think a lot of the people who complain about the latency wouldn't notice it in a side by side test. If nobody told them FG came with latency they wouldn't have noticed lol
It's really not that bad and most people aren't as sensitive to it as they like to think they are.
A step in the right direction. I hope that AMD will improve on other fronts too equally.
Thank you for clarifying that the AMD you were referring to was Advanced Micro Devices, I was confused :P
Sony PlayStation said and confirmed that they are teaming up with AMD for specific targeted research for PSSR and other AI/ Machine Learning research for games graphics. Could this be part of that collaborative research?
is amd going to continue to upgrade the upscaler for 3.1? sort of like how nvidia still upgrades dlss but locks out frame generation to the older cards? or are they only upgrading the upscaler and frame generation for the newer cards and 3.1 is staying as is forever
Good question - I hope not! I think, looking at FSR2 might be a good idea here - has it continued to receive updates in-between FSR3 and 3.1? If so, they probably will, but otherwise... probably not.
I'm just very glad that the obvious PS vs XBox fanboy slanging match was shut down by Alex on the spot with no ambiguity. No FSR4 isn't what PSSR is somehow going to be capable of. They are not related. Thank you Alex! Giving AMD their deserved credit and stopping the obvious path to BS and mis-information the fanboys would have hijacked this conversation with!
So if AMD GPUs don’t have dedicated AI/RTX cores then wouldn’t ai based FSR slow down performance having to use the regular gpu cores to run the AI model
Great work on this , especially given all of the unique constraints!! What an interesting story. This video makes me feel a bit like I was there for all the oddness.
6:00 detail resolution on the carpet is great but now I can't unsee all the ghosting.
It's neat stuff to have as option, especially years down the line. Though I would prefer to run native 4K for example and just have proper options for AA as extra. Sadly devs don't offer that, even some don't allow to disable certain things, or if so for some I've seen that then some graphical options are not available, lame. To even add that they don't bother with optimizations too.
Now when we go beyond 4K I'd care more about upscale for sure, as you're at least running 4K natively so good info in it and higher pixel density. Still good stuff to see for sure.
Curious to see new GPUs I'd expect FG too, though I'm whatever about that too.
Are the two videos about FSR 4 on TH-cam recordings of a monitor screen? Why isn't AMD releasing recordings with a capture card in high quality?
Cause its a demo of a research project. They'll release high quality vids for people to analyse when it's actually ready.
@Arcona NVIDIA also introduced the new dlss4 with unfinished drivers, that's no excuse!
@@Live01-i9o Nvidia showed a finished product that will launch with RTX5000. AMD showed an unfinished project that's coming soon.
@@Arcona In the Digital Foundry video of DLSS 4 they make it clear that the test in Cyberpunk was done with unfinished drivers!
@@Live01-i9o unfinished drivers =/= unfinished product. DLSS isn't a driver.
Holy shit the image quality difference is astounding. Nice job AMD.
I wonder if this could be tied to some yet unannounced next gen xbox tech would cause them to hold the actual announcement..
Oh God yes please. Xbox literally needs saving, no but for real folks
no. the FSR 4 will be shown with the announcement for the new PC gpu. this is where they will show FSR 4. they usually show the new gpu on their standalone AMD presentation that is shown after CES.
used FSR 3 for the first time the other day on stalker 2 with my 7800 XT. framerate went from 50 to over 100 with no change in visual or input latency. truly impressive.
This is gonna be huge for the future of gaming handhelds.
I imagine this being like in the movie TRON, where little elves have a few nanoseconds to healbrush the incoming jpgs and send them back to the user before the time runs out.
Anyone else notice @3:20 the white sticker clearly has XTX on it 🤨
2 PCs in comparison, yeah one is running a XTX.
@@Mcnooblet which is the engineering sample, IE the NEW series card that's why it is VERY interesting
@@ac1dflare937 could just be the name of the GPU die, e.g. the die of the 6900 XT was called Navi 21 XTX. Doesn't necessarily mean there will be a graphics card with the XTX suffix.
Good to see FSR 4 is looking pretty solid. AMD have been a bit behind the curve in the upscaling game, choosing compatibility over fidelity. But this is looking like a serious step to closing the gap. Something they're gonna need if they're looking to be the go-to GPU for the midrange.
Also, I love that Ratchet & Clank has been the game to test all these fancy new technologies in. Either Nixxes just really loves that game or something else about it makes it a good testing ground.
That performance mode looks amazing. I normally never use performance mode with DLSS since it can have softness and shimmer but this FSR4 video looks like it's actually quality mode.
Plot twist. The research project was running at native 4K with no upscaling.
cant wait for more blurry and unoptimized game
Amazing work guys!
6:47 you can still see a trail being left when the confetti passes through the foreground of stairs area
They said it's a camera thing. You don't see it in real life.
11:04 did you miss the Giant Ghosting? high quality but double vision, triple or more... several heads shown at a time... multihead generation
@@Zamabitheir example wasn't what I pointed out
And ghosting behind the rockets' jets at 7:15
@@Amdlo Indeed, it's not perfect - but then neither is DLSS, going off the 5080 preview in Cyberpunk the other day.
FSR previously could be argued wasn't "good enough" to go toe to toe with DLSS. Based on this and HUBs footage, I reckon if you showed someone DLSS footage and "FSR4" footage, they'd have a hard time telling them apart without really specific knowledge of how each one works.
That's a big step for AMD to make, and absolutely wasn't the case with FSR3.1
Project Amethyst off to a strong beginning!
oliver and alex are a great duo. glad oliver has been on the channel for a while, extreme enrichment to the videos!
Olex or aliver
Seeing Alex and Ollie together in the flesh is unbelievable. Must be Ray tracing
Nice that they got to meet in person
Fantastic video. Well done guys!
Oliver is my favorite of the DF crew
Who asked
@@brodeur7 me and the entire world dude, its so over for you.
I think AMD can gain more market share this generation of GPUs.
I think if you have a 7000 series graphics card is not gonna be worth upgrading just for FSR4
I better get fsr4 on my 7800 xt or Ima riot and go buy a Nvidia
Wow you're dangerous 😂😂😂@@reapthewhirlwind6915
Chill guys, In a recent interview with amd head of arquitecture say that they need more time to optimize fsr 4 because As it is now requires heavy ia hardware atm, but when they optimize it, it will work on rdna3.
@@reapthewhirlwind6915 me to I bought 7700xt few months back and I will be incredible angry if it's a RDNA4 only implementation
@@watterson777🙏
looks better than the PSSR
Seeing Alex without the headphones gives me such an uncanny feeling
Amazing video, thank you Alex and Oliver, thank you Digital Foundry! :D You guys are the best at what you do!
Looking forward to a PSSR and FSR 4 comparison
In this Game, FSR 4 is far better than PSSR
Looking forward to see FSR4 support on PS5 pro as well.
@@basketballlife5280 ps5 pro has PSSR. it won't have anything else.
@@SapiaNt0mata I'm pretty sure that's a software-developers choice, on what framework to use - as you probably know, FSR is available on Playstation and Xbox as well.
@@predabot__6778 ps5 pro has it's own thing = PSSR.
Dang Alex, your barber did you dirty
That FSR looks sooo much better- Hope to see AMD really compete with Nvidia in the future, even with the high end cards which I think they will.
Dang, FSR4 looking kinda good right now!
That carpet issue is the single biggest, most annoying artifact I've noticed relying on FSR these past couple years. Shame it's seemingly not being backported to earlier RDNA generations.
Likely not possible due to a lack of AI accelerators on RDNA 3. Blame whoever signed off on the hardware in 2022 (!) for this blunder.
@@no1DdC They sold RDNA3 on having AI accelerators, though.
It will be in RDNA3.Just will take some time.
@@Phil_529but not as separate units like we see on nvidia GPUs. Amd can just accelerate AI workloads if necessary but it can't render and run AI at the same time. At least not in a performant way.
No it will not be ported to RDNA3! It doesn't have anything like Nvidia Tensor or Intel XMX units. RDNA3 can't do machine learning based upscaling.
That is actually really impressive if you can see a massive improvement via recording from a screen. It probably looks even greater in person.
The footage looks amazing here. Two theories. (1) making an upscaler that only runs on the latest new graphics card has 'removed the shackles' of making FSR work on absolutely anything, and unlocked a huge improvement. (2) FSR 4 has been trained on a small handful of games, and this is one of them, so it looks better here than it will in other places.
When PSSR came out, I warned that it looks amazing on its core training games, but it's one thing to make machine learning work on its training data, and another thing to make machine learning work well on *other* data. As great as this looks, the same caveat still applies.
Ratchet and Clank is a Sony-game though - you'd think, if they trained it on their core-games primarily, that it would look comparable to FSR4, yes? Obviously it doesn't - PSSR is disappointing in that game, which does inspire some confidence that AMD has made a better algorithm in general.
The problem I can see happening is that if FSR 4 is going to be exclusive to 9000 series GPU's, dev's simply won't put in the additional time to add it in to games as they know 90% of people will still be on 7000 GPU's. So either FSR 4 needs to find a way onto the 7000 series or the 9000 series need to be extremely competitively priced to make FSR 4 viable.
didnt nvidia do pretty much same thing with RTX cards... dont think its a huge issue
AMD standardized the modularity of FSR in their DLL with FSR 3.0. That means new versions can simply be dropped in. Presumably FSR 4.0 is compatible as well, so I would imagine if a dev wants to support FSR 3 which runs on everything, that automatically means they support FSR 4.
Devs don't need to add FSR4 specifically, only 3.1. The AMD driver will do the swap from 3.1 to 4.0 for 9000 owners. So unless devs keep using FSR 2.0 or 3.0 and not 3.1, FSR4 will be widespread. Plus DLSS at a time only worked with 20 series, and it still got adoption.
@@dibils Nvidia has the higher market share and funds, so they get to pull something like that.
@@Alcatraz760 RDNA 3 also has some, albeit likely much slower, XDNA hardware for AI compute. It remains to be seen if any kind of ML FSR implementation gets backported to RDNA 3. I think it's a slim chance though.
Wonder if they'll stumble upon the Path Tracing demo that AMD has too, I've started seeing some people report that exists. Sounds like AMD is finally catching up to at least the 4000 series features.
still work to do, there's significant ghosting trails, but this looks a lot better. I hope AMD can speed up FSR development because the lack of DLSS competition is the main reason Nvidia can keep prices so high
It's a part of it - but I don't think it's the main reason. The main reason is simply that Nvidia has trained customers to automatically want Nvidia-cards, even when the feature they want (Ray-tracing, for instance) doesn't actually work on the card they can afford. (you need a 4090 for actually worthwhile RT... meanwhile people are still buying 3060's, thinking they can turn RT on.)
@predabot__6778 you don't need a 4090 for worthwhile RT. I had a 2060 super that was underpowered AF and still took advantage of it to a reasonable extent.
I think you two in same room and without headphones are creation of FSR4.
@11:27 “Alex is this PSSR evolution”? Alex NO! 😂😂🤣
Could be a work on progress pssr version.😂😂😢 whatever we're seeing here yoi can bet yoir behind will be implemented in a future pssr version. Duhhh... amd and Sony are in a partnership with ML AI. Hence whybthisnos called research project. Mkre than likely this is Sony and amd in a future ML version of pssr and fsr 4😂😢 cope harder mate.
He wasn’t having any part of it 😂
German style
@@dsidebothamlearn to write and no. FSR 4 and PSSR are 2 different things. You Will only see upgrades of Sony's tech in PS6 but until then, PSSR is the worst scaler out of the 3
@@jorgeacosta6698 cope harder mate!
I didn’t know that I didn’t know how Oliver looks from the side
Eh I'll believe it when I see it in motion myself. I have done many comparisons of DLSS vs FSR, and FSR was clearly inferior in all cases except one - FF16, because DLSS has no ingame sharpening setting and FSR does, so DLSS looks blurry
Exactly we saw no motion, which is how games are actually played lol
Would be time for a lossless scaling update 3.0. Video. Up to 20x framegen, better quality with scaling, 25% less delay, 45% less gpu utilization , gsync support. With this an update from 40 to 50 series seems a lot less tempting, especially considering that all the other 50 series upgrades (better ray reconstruction , lighter dlss4, better fg) are all coming to 40 series as well. Kudos for your awesome work! Never missed a video 🙏✌🏼❤️
Honestly I'm more excited about the new radeon, then the RTX 50xx AI rampage.
This is literally a video about the Radeons new AI upscaling. Only cool depending on the branding though I noticed.
@Mcnooblet A few AI features are fine, but basing most of the hype on AI features and telling people that 5070 = 4090 is just BS.
@@Mcnooblet He didn't say he was excited about FSR4 though, just that he was excited about new Radeon-cards.
6:17 I can still see those concentric rings Alex however they are not shimmering. It looks heaps better though the rings are barely noticeable.
There seems to be few frames of footage from Crysis 2 at 14:24 after the DF logo.
Haha what the hell
Seeing these guys in full body mode. It's the little things I tell ya.
FSR4 finally a great competitor to DLSS. It needs day1 FSR4 supported games.
all games with fsr 3.1 will support fsr 4 day 1
Only two gpus are getting this btw
@@Codyslx perhaps, but it's not about bringing FSR4 to every available GPU. A lot of people buy NVIDIA GPU's for DLSS, but with AMD rivaling it with a competent upscaler and cheaper prices, perhaps more people will move over.
@makimwah Nvidia's gpu's actually have ai cores thought while older amd only has ai accelerators. It makes sense to bring to the Nvidia gpus since they actually have the hardware and fssr4 is not rivaling dlss4. It caught up to dlss3 at the very least.
@@makimwah and what exactly makes you think amd prices are gona be cheaper IF (!) they have a competitive product?
All the way amd was cheaper just because they were far behind nvidia's tech and they had to massively undercut to sell anything at all