Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue - Common Issues Beyond the Filter Caps
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2024
- More common issues with this common amp - and how to prevent them.
Here's the other video showing changing the filter caps:
• Fender Deluxe Reverb R...
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Just bought one of these, going to watch and rewatch this a few times. LOVE all the content you have on this amp, and other stuff (started watching for blues junior info).
I still enjoy watching these videos even though I know very little of the technicalities. It's a goldmine of information.
That was a great tip about relocating the heater wires from the PCB to the power tube socket.
Thanks so much for your tutorial videos! Just watched your video on cap replacement .... learned some valuable things
Thanks,
I’ve watch a few of your videos on fender deluxe reverb and it’s all good info when it comes to purchasing a used amp.
I bought one of these used about 3 months ago. No troubles yet. Nice to see what I need to look forward to.🙄 . Can't thank you enough for the video.
I love my fender deluxe reissue. Next time I get it retubed, I'll ask the tech to do this with the heaters. Love your content, even what you consider to be extremely boring. Glad I found your channel, been surfing a lot of your older videos. None of it is boring btw.
Well actually, I understand that people make
verbal mistakes and appreciate and respect your video presentation, your expertise and the great information in this video. Furthermore, the other commenters here are making great points.
I have a 65 black face reissue deluxe reverb I bought in 2000, I checked the 5 capacitors yesterday, thinking they would be leaking, but to my surprise, they all looked brand new, as far as the specs on the caps? Replaced the speaker with a g12, and of course the tubes a couple of times, love that amp!!!
That's some good information. Thank you.
Good job! I really enjoy watching amps get repaired. And fuses are our friends. So always use the correct value everyone.
When buying an old tube amp sight unseen, the first thing I do is pull the fuse. IT tells me 2 things
1 Is it blown? If so, why?
2 Is it the proper value? If not, why?
I'm not much of a tech but it's saved me from buying a bunch of someone else's troubles.
Well Actually.. i enjoy your videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Good info much appreciated
I really appreciate your explanation on the heater connectors. Removing them and going straight to the lamp and tube socket. You mention they connect to 2 and 8 on the socket. When I look at the schematic, it appears to show the heaters on 2 and 7... also on the power tube charts.
Yeah, I misspoke. Think I pinned the correction in the comments - been awhile.
Thanks...I love your viids.
Good catch on that output primary connection nearly touching the heater. Wouldn't have seen it without moving the switch, wouldn't have moved the switch if you hadn't fixed the heaters, wouldn't have...
Thanks!
Wow you really know your stuff.
I gotta say though as someone with ocd. This is a hard watch!.
I had a Vox AC30S1 and I convinced myself it wasn't right..
It really wasn't. Popping tubes and fizzles etc. Anyways I took it to a tech but I never got it "right" again so I got rid.
I have a Marshall 50 watt origin now. No problems as of yet.
I want a Fender deluxe reverb but after watching these ideas and reviews I'm not so sure?..
Great work though.
I would 100% trust you to fix my amp.🙃
Well actually... you rock man.
Lyle, would you ever consider doing short videos on how to perform mods like your Mids Pot DRRI Mod, noise reduction changes, reliability mods? These would be less of a WHY and more of a quick, HOW TO since you have already explained the reasons. Just a thought. Love the channel thanks for all the knowledge.
Digging it!
The "Well, Actually" Comments... LOL.... Some people just suck. These videos are GOLD.
Anyone criticizing you for mis-speaking should look in the mirror and ask themselves if they have ever done that. Ridiculous! Thanks for the informative videos about these amps. I am considering buying one, but actually prefer the originals if I could afford one.....
Red leather yellow leather red leather yellow leather. I also rewire the sockets when I get these in the bench. Good analysis content in all your videos. I also use those low mass screen resistors on my amps. You can also separate the leads in the ribbon cables to relieve future stress fractures of the solder joints.
Hey can I ask you if these amps have a center tap on the heater winding? I've got a buddy of mine's that he wants me to bias and give a general going over. I was thinking of moving the heater wires especially if I find any discoloration around them. I was just wondering if there are balance resistors anywhere on the board that I might be bypassing? I was going to take the heater wires first to the lamp then replace the thinner wires from the lamp to the first power tube socket. Do you see anything wrong with that approach? Thanks
@@lauratanner8475 on the main board, r70/71 are the 100 ohm ground ref resistors. The twisted pair will be a dead giveaway of you want to trace the wires. Should be green from the pt going to the male spade connectors on the board, then black/white to the sockets from the board IIRC.
Edit: I don’t recall if the lamp has solder lugs in these amps offhand. If it did you could do the traditional fender thing and run the filament heaters from the pt to the lamp then to the sockets. You could then keep the black and white wires connected from the board to use as ground ref through those 100 ohm resistors. This is offhand! Check the schematic and layout online.
Exactly what I needed to know! Thank you!!
And yes that's what I was going to do and if it turns out that I was bypassing them was just to mount them at the pilot lamp. I'll know when I get there what makes the most sense. Thanks again for the info! 👍
Nice work, running the heater wires (coming out of the PT) flush to the chassis instead of flown above the socket might introduce noise though. Fender did not do this on the originals in my experience though I could be wrong...
No issue against the chassis. Ask Marshall.
Great video; thank you for your expertise. May I ask if you cut the black and white wires to the board when you move the heater wires? Would this take the 100ohm 1/2 watt resistors out and would it cause any issues?
Thank you.
If Fender removed the unused ground switch and spent the money on the main circuit board, maybe they could have put in a double sided- epoxy/glass board with plated through holes, which would make the PCB 20X more reliable and allow components to be changed from the top of the board. What a concept!
Just found your videos. These are great! Thank you! I’d love to hear what can be done to modify an HRD IV to improve tone, especially on the drive channel. If not, a before and after tone test could send this channel to the moon... and then you could sell modification schematics.. just a thought. Thx again!
I have mods for the HRD, but I don't give them out. I don't want to have to deal with all the emails asking for help when people don't understand how to make things work.
The vast majority of people have no business working on amps - I've had to undo so much butchery from people trying to do BillM mods, etc.
I know I sound like a curmudgeon, but it's the truth.
@@PsionicAudio understood. I have an HRD IV. Just playing it tonight and it sounds pretty good, even next to my Mesa Lonestar Special, but I feel there is still untapped potential. Definitely curious to hear any mods you have for the HRD. Thx for the reply. Great channel you have here. I’ll keep checking in.
Here in UK we get a PCB tremolo and a 230v connection where 240v is available on the board. I had mine fixed.
I possess no great amount of electronics knowledge, but find your approach, explanations and presentation highly informative and extremely interesting.
(Be assured though, I’ll take my amps to a qualified tech though! 👍)
Can I ask your view on the usefulness of standby switches in a modern tube amp?
If you keep the standby switch off for at least a minute after turning the power switch on, your tubes will last longer. How long is best? I don’t know.
I installed 5881s in my drri (now running 4 ohm load) and I have to say it is cat’s meow. 25w which tells me output transformer is now the bottleneck (can’t get more than 20w clean with 6v6).
I do realize the heater current has the potential to overtax the heater winding in the power transformer; do you have any opinion or experience with the current transformer Lyle? That transformer gets hot even with 6v6s. Thought about using thermocoupling paste with some aluminum heat sinks strapped to the sides in case it might delay whatever failure is probably never coming.
Speaking of standard fender 6L6 approaches: the 120pF bright cap (switchable of course) is the place to be on this amp. All the difference. Deluxe Reverb obviously under-featured to protect flagship amps.
Agreed, these aren’t the greatest sounding amp, but what at the same or similar price point sounds better in the new amp world? I see more than a few of these, but there doesn’t seem to be a lot of all valve amps that are better…especially for clean or mildly dirty amps.
Once again thanks for another great video on the DRRI.
Just one question re the filter caps. In the previous video you removed the 200uf 100v filter cap on the far right and the resistor above, and replaced them with a jumper wire in place of the resistor. I know you mentioned that you don’t need the 600v from the series caps but I wondered what the impact was of losing the 220uf cap ? Thanks
Nothing big. Just makes the capacitance for that node 47uf.
any recommendations on what to check regarding the crackling/popping noise on the Hot Rod Deluxe when the volume goes up and the guitar is played?
Great stuff. I wish you would show a video of swapping out a bad PC board DRRI and installing a good Turret board such as a Hoffman etc. I hate these single sided cheap PCBs. Traces are so flimsy and tough to change parts and or adjust values. Thanks
I have. Several times.
New to the channel. Great content, helpful advice which I have put into practice. Thank you. I have a Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue that has more oscillation hum than my other Fenders. Wonder if there is an easy fix? Everything is stock except for the speaker which I swapped out. The hum remains despite the speaker swap. Keep up the great work!
Thanks! On any Fender Blues/Hot Rod/Reissue amp that hums, the IC brand filter caps and the overheated low voltage supply are the first things to have a tech check.
@@PsionicAudio Thank you. Will do.
I see a lot of EL34 and EL84 confusion in dialog too. A lot of old amps made by Magna & Valco, among lots of old PA mfgrs. built cathode biased amps that could take either 6V6s or 6L6s, or more accurately 6V6Gs or 6L6_ _ _.
Does it matter which heater wire goes to pin 2 or pin 8? In other words does each wire have a specific pin they connect to or are they interchangeable?
I just bought a china deluxe reverb so I'll be replacing the caps and the optocoupler LDR ect. ect. thery're still worth the money.
Interestingly my DRRI does not have the fake ground switch. I guess they did away with that more recently.
I just discovered your videos....I have a question for you. My 83 year old brother still plays every day and he has a couple of these fender reissue amps.....(Deluxe and Vibrolux) he plays in a small room and what I find is at idle no matter where the knobs are set these amps are all noisy. The originals are dead quiet. What are your thought on this subject? Thanks so much for your videos.....very helpful!
Thank you! Could be the filter caps, could be a lot of things. But it's usually noisy preamp tubes.
On both those amps, V1 (rightmost tube when looking from the rear) is for the Normal channel. V2 and V4 are for the Vibrato channel. Pull each tube one at a time and see if the idle noise goes away.
Hello Mr Psionic Audio. Any chance you could do a tutorial on how you clean the pots.
I'm interested if you have some tricks I could use
might be a stupid question but would it be possible to have a switch on those resistors to easily switch between the tubes if one wanted to do that?
Very nice video, thanks! I like the sound of these amps, but it is a bit too much, if I have to pay a guy like you to make sure the amp doesn't catch fire from the get-go.
That's going to be almost every amp with all secondaries fused using quick connects and PCB mounted fuse holders. It's an EU safety regulation that causes lots of problems without actually making anything safe.
Fun times.
Would these all apply to the princeton reverb reissue?
Would it have killed Fender to move that beige PCB 1/4 or 3/8 inch farther away from the green PCB?? That is a really tight bend on those ribbon cables, and in some applications it would be rejected for that reason.
Does it matter which heater wire goes to which pin on the tube socket?
I am wondering if you'd be amenable to naming a good combo tube amp with a comparable sound profile (Fender-y vintage clean tone) which is a good pedal platform but better quality out of the box? I am considering The Tone King Imperial MKII which is considerably more expensive but seems great quality and has attenuation on board which Iove. What do YOU think?
The Tone King is very good. But certainly a very different price point.
I'm unaware of any better option at the price point than the 65 DRRI once the reliability upgrades have been done. They're quite good then.
I have added you to my short list of favorite tube amp gurus! I don’t have time to surf the web and I can get 90% of what I require from my short list. My Silvertone 1483 has 6l6GCs in the output, would there be a benefit to putting 6V6GTs in the output? It has a 5Y3 rectifier, which is used for 6V6s. I have never thought the amp had enough output power using 6L6s. The plate voltage is only 350 volts, not enough to drive those 6L6s. It might not make a difference. If I did change to 6V6s what would I have to change? Love the channel! Too bad I don’t live closer, I would contact you. Love from NW Colorado. Thanxz
Thanks so much!
I don't think you'd get any real benefit from using 6V6s in the 1483. And the overall heater voltage in the amp might rise too much.
I would suggest bypassing the unbypassed 270 ohm cathode of the 6L6s. 47uf-220uf 100V. Would improve the low end and give a noticable increase in gain.
And people send me chassis from all over the world... ;)
I'm surprised this amp has a ground switch. Is it for "authenticity" or something else? I suppose you could turn it into a negative feedback on/off switch.
Yup, that's precisely what Uncle Doug does to these.
At 7:25, both the incorrect 4 amp fuse and the 2 amp replacement appear to be " timed" fuses (do they have a T marking stamped on the end caps?), a specific type or variant of slow-blow fuses, but the fuse-holder marking doesn't indicate using a timed fuse.
yes 2 amp slow blow...you can order them from fender.
6L6 is acceptable to use in a Deluxe?
Ref your fender RI video from April 19, ‘21 at 16:00, you’re talking about the quick connects on the heater wires failing at .9 amps while the fuse has QC’s. Is that because the t-former boosts the current and the amp itself doesn’t run on that high of a current? Sorry if this is a stupid question.
It’s not a stupid question. Transformers only provide the current requested by the circuit.
That 900mA heater current the 6V6s pull? That’s their stable operating condition. But at power on there is a surge that exceeds 900mA.
That’s not including the heater current demands of the preamp tubes.
But between the quick connects and the fuse holders, that’s a lot of mechanical connections. And mechanical connections are not as efficient as soldered connections. Any imperfect transfer of current turns into heat. Then over time those mechanical connections get slightly dirty, so the connection gets even less perfect, so heat increases.
It’s a bad system that comes from choosing convenience over function.
@@PsionicAudio thank you for taking the time to enlighten me. I’m learning so much from your channel!!!
I have made a few vidoes myself. I make the same mistakes and don’t notice until I am editing the video. It’s a nightmare trying to film record audio talk (teach) focus on all these things and get it right. Until someone try’s this for themself they just need to sit back and enjoy.
I bought a used DRRI. How do I know which one it is. As 64,65,68.
I have been looking at purchasing a Tone King Imperial Mark II, but someone suggested that I go for the Fender '65 DRRI due to the good clean sounds and the large price discrepancy. But after seeing this and other videos on the channel, I'm leery of purchasing the Fender. I'm not opposed to having the unit upgraded to make it more reliable and I would definitely send it to you, but it's really off-putting that Fender doesn't put more thought and quality into these amps. And there's no easy way of knowing how much the upgrades (on a new amp, absent any other problems) will add to the cost of the amp. If I e-mailed you, would you be able to give an estimate of what these necessary and suggested upgrades would cost?
speaking of toneking, he just did a bunch of videos about repairing tonekings. Seems like they have issues as well, as you will see in the video and in the comments of people telling their stories of having issues with these amps.
I'm not sure how other tech's feel but I die a little bit more everytime I see those molex connectors. Give me a terminal strip, eyelet board or turret lug board any day of the week.
From Leo: It is not so much the connector, but that hard to work with gray cable with the solid strand wire. It is hard on the PC board, hard to work with and snaps inside the insulation if you move it too much. Bad materials application.
easy to convert the drri to turret board. lots of kits out there
You know comments help your channel
I just installed tilt back legs on my 65 Deluxe reissue and someone on a different forum told me that could couse the amp to over heat.Any truth to that? I don't see a problem myself but maybe I am over looking something.
Won't overheat, but as heat rises the front panel may feel warm.
@@PsionicAudioThank you for replying! I just bought a small fan to sit in the back on top of the reverb tank to blow air up to the chassis in hopes of keeping it a little cooler at gigs.My hope is it keeps my amp from thermal melt down lol!
Is pin 8 the one the yellow wire is connected to? Is hard to see and I don't want to blow up my amp.
Yes
i have a 65 reissue, the reverb is working but is about 10% the volume it used to be. any ideas?
Lots. But swap V3 and V6. See if that changes anything. If not, the stock tanks in those are badly made. Put in a Mojotone or MOD tank. Google will show you which tank.
So I just bought this amp from guitar center
I’m sure it’s been sitting in store for a while and that’s why I got it on sale, but how do you turn on the tremolo? Is it foot pedal only? They didn’t give me a foot pedal. Also there is a slight hum when I turn up the reverb high
And a slight hiss when I turn up the second volume even when I’m using the other channel I don’t know if that’s normal
The reverb hum is usual but fixable in this model. You'll hear hiss from a turned up channel even if you aren't plugged into it. That's normal.
You need either the footswitch or a TRS plug with the tip shorted to sleeve (nothing tied to the ring connection) to hear the Tremolo.
Here's a good footswitch for your amp:
Scroll down to #FBS-471
amprepairparts.com/footswitchboxes.htm
@@PsionicAudio so when you say the reverb is fixable, is it supposed to be that way and it’s just typical for a normal working amp but you know a fix for it? Or is mine defective and I should return it and just get a different one
And thanks for the info
Yours is normal. A good tech can rewire the 12AT7 reverb driver socket wiring and get rid of the hum. All the reissues (and some originals) have that mistake.
Can you do a video on things you can do to make it sound better?
Look at the Playlists
@@PsionicAudio I did right after I wrote this lol thanks
Possible I could send my ‘68 for recap and a possible foot switch fix? I loose reverb when I plug in my foot switch. And I just want my amp upgraded to higher quality caps and other components that might not be par.
Gladly. info@psionicaudio.com
@@PsionicAudio cool thanks.
So you give your customers a "happy ending"? ha-ha-ha
The ‘65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue is my next amp purchase - even with the identidified shortcomings. Where are you located so I know who to bring it to when I need work done?
I'm in Memphis, TN.
The "handwired" version is hot garbage. The standard '65 reissue can be made better than the HW for less money than the price difference between the amps.
And there are no clones of the Deluxe out there worth buying.
I made one, exactly like a '64, and offered it as a custom order model. It cost in 2019 what a '64 cost in '64 when you adjust for inflation.
No one ordered one. Because people want a real hand wired amp but don't want to pay what qualified hands are worth.
The reissues aren't garbage. You just have to know what you're doing.
Don’t waste your money. These are early problems. Three years later and there will be a bunch of new ones. Massed produced items are made to fail.
Most people cannot build an amp, period. Few people who think they can build amps can actually build a Deluxe Reverb that works as well as a '64-'69 original. I get so many kit-built nightmares in. And I'm tempted to put the Fender handwired DR in that category.
If you can, great. So can I. But no, most people cannot make one with $200 and a gutted reissue. And the vast majority have no business trying - amp work is dangerous.
@@PsionicAudio I don't get that either. These people have to ask themselves if they are players or tinkerers.
Which Fender amp available is the best sounding model?
Very subjective, but IMO one of the '65 RIs will be the answer depending on the volume needed. Twin, Super, Deluxe, etc.
Do you notice any difference in quality between the 65 deluxe reissue and the 68 deluxe reissue?
They are the same amp as far as the board, pots, transformers, etc. They just populate the board slightly differently.
The 68 has bad sounding tone stacks, shared reverb/trem done badly and noisily, not enough negative feedback, and a buzz you can hear from the other room with the volumes off. And a Celestion 10 that has no low end, sounds terrible, and likes to fail.
The good news is you can make the '68 sound good, but in stock form it's a dog.
@@PsionicAudio Other than that it's a fine looking amp! Lol! (Mine's getting gutted!)
@@PsionicAudio they’re cheap as shit on the used market and make for a great shell to drop in a hand wired eyelet board. Of course that’s only good for people that are capable of doing that work, so I may be a bit biased when I say I love them.
Well actually......I'm cool with any unintended errors in the narration
No secret sorcery or bla bla, this is highly professional amp science and research. This man should work with fender and he should be weight up with gold by every end of the month for that........and we would be able to buy faultless amps from them, wich obviously we can't at the moment.....
Are the "MOD" Filter Caps Reliable? Thanks
Yes
@@PsionicAudio Thanks much, always great content.
Ah quick connectors and high ampage… Killed the battery, the rectifier, and the stator on my Ducati. I mean it took 50k miles for it to happen, but happen it did.
You could wire the ground switch to keep stock NFB for the 6V6'S and the NFB needed for 6l6's. If the owner agreed of course!
Yeah, but I don't want to bring the PI ground near the mains AC stuff.
@@PsionicAudio yeah watched uncle doug do it but on old hand wired amps.
That ground switch is infuriating. The $8 cost would have covered all sorts of things like: better wire, etc. even if they were getting it for 50% at bulk.
Also, have you ever thought of having your camera from 180 degrees (basically upside down) so that it isn’t in the way of your working approach? With one click in your editing software, you can flip it 180 degrees and be on your way. I do this in some of my videos. I’ve heard you mention the hassle of having the camera in your way.
I have, but sometimes that doesn't give the best angle. It also depends on how much time I can give to editing the video. I can zoom in a lot and maintain good quality, but I don't always have time to.
I just checked out the schematic for this amp, and it says to use a 4 amp fuse for 120 volts a/c at 60hz.! For 220 volts at 50hz. for overseas, it calls for a 2amp fuse !!
No, it is 2A 120 1A 240. You might have the wrong schematic.
@@PsionicAudio no, right one, but I think that it was mis labeled
My new DRRI doesn't have the ground switch. Is it possible they improved anything else at the same time?
Not really. The rest is the same. A few things moved on the newer boards. Same critical issues.
AH! I always confuse EL84's with EL34's.
I would of bought a Deluxe over a Twin if it had Mid control. For Jerry Garcia ish tone the Deluxe cant quite do it.
4amp fuse ! WTF lol. Ive never have heard a deluxe with 6L6 tubes before.
That's just goofy to run the heaters thru the PC board.
The money for that dummy ground switch could have definitely been better spent on better quality capacitors!
I want to spend less time fixing my gear than playing. Been trying that for 45 years.
The DR reissue will not help that.
Obviously Fender does not have good quality control measures to have so many issues from the factory.
you know they will still be playing it 40 yrs from now lol
Having watched your videos, I will NEVER buy another Fender amp; and for the money they charge, it borders on criminal.
Reissue? More like re-issue
...when i have my tremelo "activated(ie i'm using the footswitch)", but have the "intensity" knob set at zero, i can still hear a faint rhythmic click that corresponds with the "speed" setting. the only way to remedy it is to "disable" tremelo function, ie unplug the footswitch. any ideas about this...?