Huge thank you to all of you that have engaged with this video and especially to those of you who know how antennas, measurement and tuning works for recognising that this video is the first in a series, designed for the pilot who is new for the topic and not trying to cover everything in one 20 min video. It's easy to pick holes in content that's designed for the beginner when you've done a subject for 20 years, but to do so is forgetting that you didn't acquire that knowledge in half an hour and and the audience it's intended for, thank you to all of you who 'get it'. Thank you for the excellent ideas and feedback fro future videos in this series. Happy flying!
I think the one part that would be helpful as an addition to why this matters is explaining with a VSWR lookup table showing why 2.0 and 5.0 are useful benchmarks for reflected power - 2.0 being close to 10% reflected power means the output is within the variance of VTX hardware, and even the fairly rubbish 5.0 results in 'only' a -3dB loss (quite similar to a poorly selected coax/connector chain), which for racing is just bad, but for long range or freestyle flying means that a nominally 800mW transmitter is actually barely achieving 250mW of realistic output on a poor combination of channel/cable/connectors/antenna
Man, I wish I had three things. 1. A buddy that was an expert at antennas. 2. A buddy that would tweak, tune and make anteenas for me! 3. That BA set of premium antennas! Just got into the hobby and I always make an informed purchase. This info will definitely point me in the right direction. THESE ARE THE VIDEOS I LOVE! Bty... I live in the states and will pay for shipping on those bad boys!
Apart from checking performance of each antennna, it may be good to compare how consistent 2 same antenna from the same model perform. If we find that they are the same, then we have better confidence that your results is applicable to our own of that model. Then we will be able to say, use the aomway at the high band ...
Excellent insight into some of the finer details of 5.8Ghz antennas. Far better than others that I've watched, where they demonstrate a maximum amount of power transmitted for each antenna, then declare the winner based solely on the maximum power transmitted, rather than showing how much of a usable spread within the range exists for each one.
Very illuminating to see how a few of the many, many antennas look on the analyzer, and a very nice explanation of the complex topic. Congratulations on the great job on this followup. You've hit it out of the park. I do want to note that the one antenna with the very broad, relatively flat response across the spectrum is a bit troubling. A dummy load also has very low VSWR all the way down to DC, but makes for a lousy antenna at every frequency. I had hoped your host might comment. VSWR is but one figure of merit and in some cases possibly misleading. Thanks again for a great job.
This video was very helpful. We were just talking about how to figure out what a antenna is tuned for in my shop last week. This now gives us a idea on how to figure it out. Also wanted to say I have been useing Menance FPV antennas since 2016. They have been great and the only ones I use on my goggles and quads!! The ones I bought at the drone show in 2016 are still working great for me today!!
what a fascinating exercise to educate fpv ers about antenna design and relative performance of various brands ,i am a long time 50+years aeromodellor who has been trying to go FPV and this kind of information is invaluable to non technical enthusiasts
I have a pair of Octavia microphones, each came with a print-out of the performance graph. If premium antennas are each tested at the manufacturing stage, perhaps a print out might be nice.
I would totally agree with that being a way for manufacturers to show why paying more means getting more (as opposed to buying a black box of unknowns with questionable Q/A from China.... although the peach rate on some of those is high enough that I can be content)
Fantastic video, I had mentioned in a previous post that I didn't trust most of the ads for antennae and this kind of supports my distrust, although as you pointed out this is only one antenna per vendor so the numbers could change if one were to test say 50 antennae per vendor. Hopefully, this will encourage manufacturers to spend a little more time in the design/tuning of what they sell such as the folks at Menace and Fatshark have done. I would like to see as part of every antenna ad, an average trace so we can make an informed decision on what we are buying instead of relying on someone's perceived view of how the antenna is performing. Or possibly include a trace printout with each antenna purchased. Really looking forward to more, Thanks so much
Very eye opening for me a great little insight into the tuning given on these antennas great to see the new thrasher now in the wild 😜 that will be one for the shopping list Thankyou Greg and Lee for the generous competition will we see more at all about the perfect orientation for these pagodas let’s say on a wing quad etc Many thanks today I learnt something 😀👍👍👍
So I'm new to fpv and trying to wrap my head around getting the best, most reliable upgrades to my fixed wing system. This information was spot on helping me understand the basics of choosing a good antenna for my setup. Thanks guys and keep up the great work!!
This was amazing. I cannot describe how pleased I am to see quantitative measurements on this. Incredibly fascinating and really lends a great explanation for why some antennas are just way better than others.
Interesting summary Lee. In a perfect world in addition to providing a VSWR plot it would be good if manufacturers also included a chart showing the 3D radiation pattern. Many thanks for your good work.
Thanks for all the info, I now have a better understanding on frequencies and tuning. Remains the fact that for us, "normal people" it'a pain without proper instruments, will always be a try and fail scenario (until we see your videos). Thanks for shortening our pain, though :D
This is really knowledgeable. Please include patch antennas in your future videos. I tried using a patch antenna on the vtx end, and got greatly improved video feed indoors.
interesting. in april '18 Tony was at a DRL test race in Friedrichshafen, I was invited, too. we put several antennas on his "box", with similiar and different result. the fatshark antennas and the aomway performed there quite as good, the pagodas were therfore quite disappointing. good work, i always enjoy your very technical videos.
Absolutely great video! Seeing the SWR profiles of different FPV antennas gives an interesting insight to how different antennas perform at different frequencies. It would be cool to see some DIY FPV antennas put through the same tests to see how they compare.
Quite informative, I really like watching this type of video where I learn something without feeling like most of the terminology has went over my head...
Analyzer pron! That Measall analyzer is a gorgeous bit of kit =P Brilliant comparison. I wasn't too surprised the pagoda style antenna was tuned so tightly considering it's the only one with a proper balun but I was surprised the older Fat Shark unit was so linear. It's obviously too much to ask but I really wish retailers would include graphs like these in their antenna adverts
Thanks a lot for this nice video and for a chance to see the person responsible behind all antenna I use on my quad. Big shout out to Greg: Thank you for making Raptor and Stubby. Since I have switched to stubby, I had a lot fewer instances where antennas on my quads would become victims to my poor flying. And I took that stubby to 2.3km on a 5" quad :) Great yob and keep it up. @Painless360 I can't thank you enough for making these videos, they have helped me a lot and still will in the future.
I love Menace stuff, I have the FiziX Race Frame from them and its fantastic. I have never had a problem with any of there kit as it works out of the box, just the best.
Thanks Lee, another well presented and informative video. I've only just started my journey into FPV and all this information is helping shape my choices. If only all TH-camrs could be as well presented.
You should have put a link in the description pointing to a sponsored product for a Network Analyser! I'm guessing lots of people are now looking to buy one after having seen this video. :)
I think I need this kind of antenna pack as I can never seem to get more than 300 meters flying distance before my video starts to be un-flyable. Thanks to both of you.
Please make sure you're subscribed and have the bell notification I can take as this giveaway has already happened and there may be more in the future.
I remember meeting Mr menace at the 2016 UKDS, thoroughly nice bloke who had plenty of time for his customers, of which I’m one. Yet to test my new pico as been too busy but expecting good things as with all the menace products I have. By the way, nice to put a face to the voice 360 👍🏼👍🏼
Greg is definitely one of the Gentlemen of the Hobby. Please make sure you are subscribed and have the bell notification icons selected. I've been appearing in videos since the 6th of August last year and you have probably missed quite a few giveaways and other bits too. Thanks for the comment, happy flying!
Thanks for showing the comparison, will be good to see these results against the TPU covered antennas. It would also be great to win the antennas as I'm just getting into the hobby.
This has been really interesting. I want a network analyser now! It seems that Greg really cares about making great antennae and it would be great to upgrade mine by some designed in the UK with that antenna pack. Thanks for the great videos!
Fully enjoyed watching that and it has given me a good insight in to how they differ and a better understanding. Keep up the good work I'm looking forward to the next video.
As usual always, good technical stuff on P360. Whilst very interesting, VSWR is by no means a good indicator of overall antenna performance :-) It could be worth mentioning that this is only one factor in antenna design, and there are other factors that affect performance. For instance a dummy load will absorb all the power you throw at it and give you a completely flat response across the band with a 1:1 SWR (similar to a couple of those tested :-( ) , yet not radiate any RF at all :-O looking forward to further episodes.
I found this video will be extremely informative. I also found it to be very interesting. Looking forward to a lot more of these videos. Thanks 360 great job!
Interesting video. Years ago I used to design CATV filters and I sure miss having an IFR computerized Spectrum Analyzer on my bench(with built in synced sweep generator). It's the sort of luxury you don't appreciate until you need it. I'd love to find an old Wavetek sweep setup for cheap (used to build log-amp from a chip for them), but so would a lot of other people, so the cheap part is tough. I'd sure like an hour on one to run thru my antenna collection and see what really is properly tuned and which ones are not. I have the linear Menace patch and it's my go-to for Whoops and the smaller RTFs that haven't been converted to CP. It's surprisingly good in most conditions and flying sites. The RCP version has been on my "Want" list for some time now.
Huge thank you to all of you that have engaged with this video and especially to those of you who know how antennas, measurement and tuning works for recognising that this video is the first in a series, designed for the pilot who is new for the topic and not trying to cover everything in one 20 min video.
It's easy to pick holes in content that's designed for the beginner when you've done a subject for 20 years, but to do so is forgetting that you didn't acquire that knowledge in half an hour and and the audience it's intended for, thank you to all of you who 'get it'.
Thank you for the excellent ideas and feedback fro future videos in this series. Happy flying!
I think the one part that would be helpful as an addition to why this matters is explaining with a VSWR lookup table showing why 2.0 and 5.0 are useful benchmarks for reflected power - 2.0 being close to 10% reflected power means the output is within the variance of VTX hardware, and even the fairly rubbish 5.0 results in 'only' a -3dB loss (quite similar to a poorly selected coax/connector chain), which for racing is just bad, but for long range or freestyle flying means that a nominally 800mW transmitter is actually barely achieving 250mW of realistic output on a poor combination of channel/cable/connectors/antenna
@@tehllama42 please check the description, that link is already there.
Man, I wish I had three things. 1. A buddy that was an expert at antennas. 2. A buddy that would tweak, tune and make anteenas for me! 3. That BA set of premium antennas! Just got into the hobby and I always make an informed purchase. This info will definitely point me in the right direction. THESE ARE THE VIDEOS I LOVE! Bty... I live in the states and will pay for shipping on those bad boys!
Apart from checking performance of each antennna, it may be good to compare how consistent 2 same antenna from the same model perform. If we find that they are the same, then we have better confidence that your results is applicable to our own of that model. Then we will be able to say, use the aomway at the high band ...
or at least 3 same antenna model.
I love it that Menace is willing to test their own antennae's live, shows the confidence of the manufacturers.
Excellent insight into some of the finer details of 5.8Ghz antennas. Far better than others that I've watched, where they demonstrate a maximum amount of power transmitted for each antenna, then declare the winner based solely on the maximum power transmitted, rather than showing how much of a usable spread within the range exists for each one.
Very illuminating to see how a few of the many, many antennas look on the analyzer, and a very nice explanation of the complex topic. Congratulations on the great job on this followup. You've hit it out of the park.
I do want to note that the one antenna with the very broad, relatively flat response across the spectrum is a bit troubling. A dummy load also has very low VSWR all the way down to DC, but makes for a lousy antenna at every frequency. I had hoped your host might comment. VSWR is but one figure of merit and in some cases possibly misleading.
Thanks again for a great job.
I have been using MenceRC for over a year now and super impressed with the performance.
Very informative video. Nice to see how old a new antennas compare to each other from tuning perspective
So glad that someone is finally attempting to de-mistify the subject of antennas. Thanks Lee.
This video was very helpful. We were just talking about how to figure out what a antenna is tuned for in my shop last week. This now gives us a idea on how to figure it out. Also wanted to say I have been useing Menance FPV antennas since 2016. They have been great and the only ones I use on my goggles and quads!! The ones I bought at the drone show in 2016 are still working great for me today!!
what a fascinating exercise to educate fpv ers about antenna design and relative performance of various brands ,i am a long time 50+years aeromodellor who has been trying to go FPV and this kind of information is invaluable to non technical enthusiasts
Excellent video. Measuring VSWR is not easy and you need expensive equipment to do it so to see it presented in this way is awesome!
I have a pair of Octavia microphones, each came with a print-out of the performance graph. If premium antennas are each tested at the manufacturing stage, perhaps a print out might be nice.
I would totally agree with that being a way for manufacturers to show why paying more means getting more (as opposed to buying a black box of unknowns with questionable Q/A from China.... although the peach rate on some of those is high enough that I can be content)
You make fpv Painless even when i turn around in a circle. Just getting into this hobby and really like you videos. Thanks.
Like these technically informative sessions where a Subject Matter Expert talks about a key component of our FPV flying experience. Great work, Lee.
It would be interesting to see this on patches as well. This is more informative than most manufacturer specs.
Being a bit of a Nerd and having always been interested in Electronics I found this video extremely interesting, great video!
Lee,
This will be a good series. Again you are giving me practical knowledge. Yes, I would like a set of these quality antennas.
Jim
A great view into antennas. Good to see you not just testing the menace ones as well.
Fantastic video, I had mentioned in a previous post that I didn't trust most of the ads for antennae and this kind of supports my distrust, although as you pointed out this is only one antenna per vendor so the numbers could change if one were to test say 50 antennae per vendor. Hopefully, this will encourage manufacturers to spend a little more time in the design/tuning of what they sell such as the folks at Menace and Fatshark have done. I would like to see as part of every antenna ad, an average trace so we can make an informed decision on what we are buying instead of relying on someone's perceived view of how the antenna is performing. Or possibly include a trace printout with each antenna purchased.
Really looking forward to more, Thanks so much
Very eye opening for me a great little insight into the tuning given on these antennas great to see the new thrasher now in the wild 😜 that will be one for the shopping list Thankyou Greg and Lee for the generous competition will we see more at all about the perfect orientation for these pagodas let’s say on a wing quad etc
Many thanks today I learnt something 😀👍👍👍
So I'm new to fpv and trying to wrap my head around getting the best, most reliable upgrades to my fixed wing system. This information was spot on helping me understand the basics of choosing a good antenna for my setup. Thanks guys and keep up the great work!!
This was amazing. I cannot describe how pleased I am to see quantitative measurements on this. Incredibly fascinating and really lends a great explanation for why some antennas are just way better than others.
A buddy of mine has a Menace RC patch on his goggles, and I've been meaning to buy the pack to try them out for myself! Very informative video!
Very nice comparison. I hadn't really thought about antennas working differently on slightly different frequencies.
Thanks for the in-depth look at 5.8 antennas!
Liked. I'm lucky enough to own a vswr meter as a radio ham so personally test all my antennas.
Great video, interesting how different the performances are from all the different antennas!
Good video Lee. Clear explanation of antenna concepts without over simplifying.
Possibly the most useful FPV information video ever. Thank you.
A very interesting video. Many thanks to Greg for making it something we can all clearly understand.
Excellent video, I'd also love to see more than one example tested of each type and maybe the effect of slight bending of the elements. Thanks Lee.
Wish that test equipment wasn't so expensive. It sure would make finding your strongest frequency easier. Great video can't wait for the next one. ✌🏻
Great insight in how these antennas perform
Interesting summary Lee.
In a perfect world in addition to providing a VSWR plot it would be good if manufacturers also included a chart showing the 3D radiation pattern.
Many thanks for your good work.
A really interesting video and surprising to see such differences across the range of antennas tested.
Thank you for all your work you do to help us newer FPV pilots.
Another great video Lee. Greg and yourself have given us a great insight into the variances in FPV TX and RX antennas. Very useful
Enjoying the more diverse videos you are creating recently, good job.
Great video Lee! It's nice to see our consumer gear tested on professional equipment.
I have been looking for more information on antennas and this is right up the alley I’ve been looking for...thanks!!!
Thanks for all the info, I now have a better understanding on frequencies and tuning. Remains the fact that for us, "normal people" it'a pain without proper instruments, will always be a try and fail scenario (until we see your videos). Thanks for shortening our pain, though :D
I know everybody is going to want an antenna analyzer now! Great information keep it up. Thanks
I'm still new to FPV... you have a brilliant channel, thank you!
Interesting video, looking forward for the next.
Thanks Greg and Painless360
Very interesting to see how this was measured!
This is really knowledgeable. Please include patch antennas in your future videos. I tried using a patch antenna on the vtx end, and got greatly improved video feed indoors.
I like the info on how the antenna are tuned, thank you and keep up the good work
interesting. in april '18 Tony was at a DRL test race in Friedrichshafen, I was invited, too. we put several antennas on his "box", with similiar and different result. the fatshark antennas and the aomway performed there quite as good, the pagodas were therfore quite disappointing.
good work, i always enjoy your very technical videos.
Getting smarter by the minute, Lee. Appreciate the info.
Absolutely great video! Seeing the SWR profiles of different FPV antennas gives an interesting insight to how different antennas perform at different frequencies. It would be cool to see some DIY FPV antennas put through the same tests to see how they compare.
I'm not too sure if I fully understand what's going on there but getting the gist of how different antennae perform. Great stuff
One of the best antenna videos I have seen. Great job
Excellent work guys. Really enjoy this kind of stuff and hope you can include a look at the effect bent elements have on the VSWR readings.
This is a great video, 2 very clever experienced guys in this industry working together to help us out, cant ask for more , thanks guys.
Great video, would really like to see another video testing the consistency of each brand, but i can imagine how difficult that would be.
Quite informative, I really like watching this type of video where I learn something without feeling like most of the terminology has went over my head...
Analyzer pron! That Measall analyzer is a gorgeous bit of kit =P Brilliant comparison. I wasn't too surprised the pagoda style antenna was tuned so tightly considering it's the only one with a proper balun but I was surprised the older Fat Shark unit was so linear. It's obviously too much to ask but I really wish retailers would include graphs like these in their antenna adverts
Very interesting would like to see an average of 3 antennas from the same manufacturer
That was informative and didn't even realize the video was 20 minutes 👍
Great video can't wait for the thrasher to come out look forward to the rest of the series
Huzzah.. I'm in, it is surprising how the application of the antennas in the quad environment can make a difference to the tuning as well!
Great! Can't wait to see the rest of the series
Have yet to try a menace! This is a very awesome video! Thanks a lot for this Lee! Saturday morning wheaties right here!
This has to be one of your best videos. Can’t wait for the rest of the series!
Extremely useful - now I understand more about antennas! I like this explanation videos...
Surprising results. Thanks for the analysis.
Thanx for the info from a newer FPV flyer. Keep up the good work.
Very interesting, looking forward to the rest of the videos
Thank you very much for the insight on the performance of each antenna! Looking forward to the next videos!
Thanks a lot for this nice video and for a chance to see the person responsible behind all antenna I use on my quad.
Big shout out to Greg: Thank you for making Raptor and Stubby. Since I have switched to stubby, I had a lot fewer instances where antennas on my quads would become victims to my poor flying.
And I took that stubby to 2.3km on a 5" quad :) Great yob and keep it up.
@Painless360 I can't thank you enough for making these videos, they have helped me a lot and still will in the future.
I love Menace stuff, I have the FiziX Race Frame from them and its fantastic. I have never had a problem with any of there kit as it works out of the box, just the best.
Great Video. I did not expect tbs to perform so bad.
Thanks Lee, another well presented and informative video. I've only just started my journey into FPV and all this information is helping shape my choices. If only all TH-camrs could be as well presented.
Really interesting video am looking forward to the rest of them
You should have put a link in the description pointing to a sponsored product for a Network Analyser!
I'm guessing lots of people are now looking to buy one after having seen this video. :)
Wow. I never knew antennas were this sophisticated. Makes sense now though, after seeing this video.
Definitely in for this giveaway. One of the best antennas out there hands down
I think I need this kind of antenna pack as I can never seem to get more than 300 meters flying distance before my video starts to be un-flyable.
Thanks to both of you.
Please make sure you're subscribed and have the bell notification I can take as this giveaway has already happened and there may be more in the future.
I remember meeting Mr menace at the 2016 UKDS, thoroughly nice bloke who had plenty of time for his customers, of which I’m one.
Yet to test my new pico as been too busy but expecting good things as with all the menace products I have.
By the way, nice to put a face to the voice 360 👍🏼👍🏼
Greg is definitely one of the Gentlemen of the Hobby. Please make sure you are subscribed and have the bell notification icons selected. I've been appearing in videos since the 6th of August last year and you have probably missed quite a few giveaways and other bits too. Thanks for the comment, happy flying!
Great video. Made understanding how antenna quality and tune is measured...well...painless. Keep it up!
I wish I had one of these meters so I can always fly on the channel my antenna is tuned for. Thanks so much for your videos. Very informative.
Great Video. Didn't realise the fatsharks were that good. I still have a few of them.
Thanks - a useful and interesting glimpse into another aspect of the hobby!
Thanks guys, that was very informative. Can’t wait to see more antenna testing. That antenna combo pack is a super deal.
Very interesting test. Thanks for sharing your results.
Thanks for showing the comparison, will be good to see these results against the TPU covered antennas. It would also be great to win the antennas as I'm just getting into the hobby.
Interesting series you guys started here!
I follow Painless as my goto FPV education, good to see why he told me why to get menace pagoda and patch Santana for my Aomway Commander V2 goggles.
Another great video, I have learned a bit more about how antennas work. Thanks for making it.
I love this geekery. I also love my Pico Patch. Thank you guys.
This has been really interesting. I want a network analyser now! It seems that Greg really cares about making great antennae and it would be great to upgrade mine by some designed in the UK with that antenna pack. Thanks for the great videos!
US $1,849.00 if you want it
Fully enjoyed watching that and it has given me a good insight in to how they differ and a better understanding. Keep up the good work I'm looking forward to the next video.
As usual always, good technical stuff on P360.
Whilst very interesting, VSWR is by no means a good indicator of overall antenna performance :-)
It could be worth mentioning that this is only one factor in antenna design, and there are other factors that affect performance.
For instance a dummy load will absorb all the power you throw at it and give you a completely flat response across the band with a 1:1 SWR (similar to a couple of those tested :-( ) , yet not radiate any RF at all :-O
looking forward to further episodes.
What a great vid it gives a bit of a insight about choosing the best channel for me, hope 2 see more RF vids. Thx
I found this video will be extremely informative. I also found it to be very interesting. Looking forward to a lot more of these videos. Thanks 360 great job!
Nice video, great to learn about different aspects to the hobby
Good video. Please keep the information flowing.
Interesting video. Years ago I used to design CATV filters and I sure miss having an IFR computerized Spectrum Analyzer on my bench(with built in synced sweep generator). It's the sort of luxury you don't appreciate until you need it. I'd love to find an old Wavetek sweep setup for cheap (used to build log-amp from a chip for them), but so would a lot of other people, so the cheap part is tough.
I'd sure like an hour on one to run thru my antenna collection and see what really is properly tuned and which ones are not. I have the linear Menace patch and it's my go-to for Whoops and the smaller RTFs that haven't been converted to CP. It's surprisingly good in most conditions and flying sites. The RCP version has been on my "Want" list for some time now.
Great video, just the sort of stuff we need more of.