it's sad if they have to pull a plug 🔌 on any of the teams. This is why they need to stop trying to do these deals with these massive sized stadiums and find MLS sized stadiums like Audi Field
I hope it doesn't come to that, but the lease with Ford Field makes no sense to me. Or the league should have found a way to configure it (or disguise it) in a way where it doesn't look totally empty. Still, the lack of fans showing up for games says a lot.
That's kind of hard to do in regards to scheduling along with the amount of money it will costs via the owners of the stadium or like what went down with Vegas....
Exactly. You need to build a fan base which just like in the MLS will take time and in most places you will never have a fan base big enough for Ford Field.
Ive been confused by the city choices by the XFL, USFL, and now the UFL. Obviously the cities like DC, San Antonio, and St louis should've kept their team without a doubt but Michigan and Arlington probably shouldn't. Memphis and Birmingham just need time to build a fan base up but Seattle should've kept their team and cities like Portland, San Diego and Omaha could probably have better attendance. Also i understand certain cities like Houston can get more corporate sponsors for the league.
I think initially, they needed to pick 8 teams that had either stadium leases in place or could get one (like Houston) and with already established teams. I believe honestly this year they just needed to get the merger done and get it off the ground quickly. Hopefully it's successful enough for expansion in 2025.
I think the UFL should stick to the same 8 teams for 2025. Just come back and do it again. These leagues keep folding teams after 1 season, and fans are skeptical that the UFL will stick around. Just come back with the same 8 teams. Market them aggressively in their home markets and see what attendance looks like next season. In the end, I think 12-14 teams is the sweet spot. I don't think there is enough interest, money, or talent to field 16 teams. Great discussion!
I'd rather have 8 teams for 2 years than a failed league that faltered because of too much expansion too quickly. Agreed! Thanks for watching and commenting!
I think they should form a couple 'shop around' teams that have no city headquarters and play in various cities to gauge fan support and venue affordability. They can use old team names like the sea dragons and vipers
the major problem is that the league isn't promoting any of the teams in the cities they play in. like it wouldn't even have to be a lot of money committed to advertising just plus ads in the right markets or bank on the 80s USFL legacy of them being a championship team
I've heard the marketing is hit and miss in some cities. There was a nice media blitz before the season kicked off but I'm not sure that's happening now. I know the teams are trying to get earned media with weekly news conferences but I'm not sure how that's going over in each market.
@@johnlewissports it wouldn't even have to be extensive the GMs of each team could promote the team or they could fly the home team out to the city a day or two early so they can do a media day or something to drum up hype for the upcoming game
You're not wrong. That's especially disappointing since they had 15k for their home opener last year. I really thought fan interest would be there this year.
@@johnlewissports it’s almost like when the tickets aren’t available at the 99 cent bargain bin at Best Buy, “fans” suddenly don’t want to show up in usfl markets anymore except for Birmingham
Just a good year where no team is totally terrible, and an offseason where we are stable and keep all the same teams, would go a long way for building trust in spring football. I feel like it’s the general consensus that it doesn’t work and or isn’t real football. Nobody’s willing to watch or get attached. The AAF and XFL 2020 really hurt the idea of spring footballs reputation
Absolutely on point. People aren't trusting of spring football in some places to invest their time and/or money. When's the last time we had three straight seasons of one traditional spring football league? Thats why I'm hopeful and cautiously optimistic that the merger might be the first step in rebuilding trust.
The ticket issues have been the start of Michigan's problems. Having to play when the Tigers and Red Wings are also playing either at the same time, or same day doesn't help when all of them are right next to each other. With Fiesta starting this week in San Antonio and a carnival taking place right next to the stadium, hopefully that gives a bump to the numbers on Saturday even though the regular parking lot is being used for it. There will still be tailgating, just not in Lot C.
Always has been the trouble with spring football in cities that have baseball and/or NHL. A lot of people bring up St Louis, but that's the outlier. I don't know if there's a better venue for the Panthers in Detroit, but that's a rough look.
I still maintain that the league made a big mistake by cutting out the 8 teams this season. They could have stayed 8 vs 8, kept the USFL and XFL Conferences separate and played each other in the Championship Game.
I think it was about economics to get it merged and launched (again). A 16 team league might have been good for fans, but I'm not sure it was feasible with a merger that was assembled so quickly.
@@Mike-aka747 I thought they might keep 10 but honestly, I'd rather have 8 and have multiple years of the UFL rather than a gamble and it folds after a year. This might be spring football's last chance at this scale for awhile.
@@johnlewissports I get the logic of it. And they probably got it right. But to look major league need more teams. I hope they expand to 12 next year. 🤞🏼
i think it may be to early to think about pulling the plug on a team.i think attendence is a double edge sword,everygame is on tv,some fans may prefer to stay home and watch.i think attendence has been down in college football, and i notice quite a few empty seats at some nfl games, and across other professional leagues. however i think it goes to show what iv'e been saying all along,the league would be better served to explore,new markets. certainly cities without existing nfl teams, or with few or any professional league teams,i think the eague could do a better job of marketing teams in cities..as for the panthers if attendence continues to decline,may be time to relocate, if so,why not keep them in michigan, some other city like grand rapids?i feel the same way about the houston roughnecks,,as memphis,i think its a wait and see for them, memphis has always had pretty good attendence for spring league football,as have birmingham.
Hard for me to envision the UFL looking the same in 2025. As we talked about, it's not all based on attendance but you can't put that on TV and expect casual fans to be curious.
@@johnlewissports ohh,i agree,i think in detroit for example, most of the sports talk,is probably about the nfl draft, who the lions will take no 1, who else they may select...and if the tigers,pistons,or redwings are good,and in contention,their going to get most of the attention in spring and summer, an expansion league,is a blip,on their radar, and i just feel it's the same in all these major markets.
There's history there and it's a top 15 TV market. I haven't seen the market by market TV ratings yet, but strangely, games involving Detroit have been getting good viewership...just not in person.
@@cityhawk I don't know how the finances of the Ford Field deal compares with Lumen Field. As James said, the lease with Ford Field is pricy but no specifics were released. I think the UFL might have believed a buyer would be easier to find in Michigan than in Seattle. All speculation on my part.
I don't see any promo in our area for them. At all. I see very little advertisements for the league in general. They need a promo blitz for the entire league because outside of St. Louis, no one seems to be aware of it.
This seems to be a common complaint and that's a real problem. Die hards know all about it, but to get others, you have to let people know it's happening. Saw a lot of promos out and about in St Louis this weekend.
A bit disappointing... They are the Michigan Panthers not the Detroit Panthers so maybe moving them somewhere else in the state would be an idea. Grand Rapids maybe? Ford Field & a couple of the others are just too big, granted St Louis is the exception, maybe shoot for stadiums with capacities from 25-40 thousand (if that's sustainable?)
Great video. I think local advertising would help. I never saw a local tv spot for the Brahmas. I'm guessing that's the same for the other cities as well. Plus it would be nice if at the very least the league build a relationship with the local ABC and Fox tv affiliate. Right now the local channels in S.A are hit and miss with local coverage.
Thank you! I appreciate that. It feels like St Louis has a good relationship with the local affiliates, but I think that's a 2 way street. Stations realize there's fan interest, so they welcome the coverage and vice versa. If the perception from the stations is that there's not much fan interest, it's easier to do nothing rather than make the effort to cover them. Your point about building a relationship is accurate: sometimes you have to have an advocate who is a decision maker in a TV station to get coverage.
There's more of a Birmingham problem than a Michigan problem. Birmingham with an overall 21-3 record can't draw a St. Louis type crowd. That's the problem.
I think Birmingham's attendance is disappointing so far and is A problem. I don't think when it comes to attendance it's THE problem. Dropping below 7k in Detroit is a huge red flag.
@@johnlewissports agreed but what I think is really disappointing is that the mayor promised the team a championship parade 2 years in a row and they never happen
@@thechristianmale129 I thought the reason for no parade in 2022 was because everyone had left. I know they had one last year but yeah, any team that wins a championship should get a parade on whatever level.
John I think this will be the last season of UFL. It takes 30 years for a league to take off and a pro football league on a 100 yard field is just to expensive to maintain for that long. It’s a shame ..
I hope that's not the case but you make some good points. With three financial backing of Disney and Fox, hopefully the expenses are minimal considering their overall budgets. But yeah, if this doesn't work, I can't imagine we see a spring football league on a scale like this in a long time.
I think the networks can make a deal with some college divisions to play meaningful games in the spring. The infrastructure is already in place with a fan base .
Birmingham had lower attendance against DC. It could’ve been the weather being cool and rainy or most likely it was Talladega weekend which is BIG in the state of Alabama.
St. Louis supports the Battlehawks as well as it does the Cardinals, Blues, and its new soccer team. It has been great seeing the Dome loud again like back in the days of Kurt Warner and company. The STL Rams went from the Greatest Show on Turf to the worst team in the NFL for years and attendance did drop off. A good team helps attendance no matter the sport. That being said, STL was ready to build yet another new stadium for the Rams and the Stan Kroenke move to L.A. for its very large TV market was really upsetting expecially after learning of his indemniifcation agreement to compensate NFL owners in the event of any STL lawsuits to swing their relocation votes from STL to L.A. St. Louis should have been awarded an expansion team as I belleive a new owner would have been found. In St. Louis, KA KAW in the Law. Win or lose, the Battlehawks are an exciting team like those Rams teams of Kurt Warner.
No doubt they support the Battlehawks. I was at the game Saturday (might be a video coming soon 😉) and it was rocking with 31,000 people. Impressive enough but considering there were 41,000 fans at the Cardinals game at the same time, that makes it even more impressive.
@@johnlewissports I also thought the Battlehawks attrendance may have dropped some with the Cards game at the same time like you mention. Having a competitive team does help attendance. Not sure how big would be the attendance if they were now 0-4 losing every game like 30-7 as some of those STL Rams teams. I know Michigan is a hotbed for football but maybe their big college football teams and following the Lions is enough football for them. Then again it is minor league football so like a minor league baseball team, but I do like how most games are close and pretty well played by all the teams.
To the person who messes before me, You absolutely right they should play on MLS stadiums I be telling my people too about it that’s the best bet because we need UFL and the NFL news it too
Agreed the league is not promoting any of the teams in the respective cities. Take for example the St. Louis Battlehawks began going out into the community like local high school football games and so on. The teams have to do their part during the offseason (and yes it's understandable the merger was hanging in the balance). Two factors: 1) the teams need to practice at their home cities, this way you don't get a scarce connection to the community, and 2) March 31st is too long of a wait to start a spring football season, the momentum from the Super Bowl is practically gone and the urgency to have more football in mid-February would be more appropriate. Realistically you are having to compete with College Basketball post-season and currently with NHL and NBA Playoffs, there's no escape we all have to compete for viewership.
Agreed on all points. My gut tells me there will be some important changes for the 2025 season, including a stronger marketing effort in the communities and hopefully an earlier kickoff date. Daryl Johnston was pretty open about getting this merger completed quickly and just trying to get the season going. Hopefully there's a lot being learned and we see some big improvements next season.
No. Give it another year. Promote better. Then see where it goes from there. There’s other problems in Memphis and Arlington too. Houston has only played 1 game there so far. Let’s see if the Texas Showdown drums Up a decent crowd. That’s almost half the league though. They the UFL needs to work on promoting better in their home cities.
As we talked about in the video, I think this was a "let's hurry up and get this going" this year. Hopefully lessons are learned this year and applied next year.
I guess I can't judge based on the rest of the league in the UFL, but they are playing in an NFL graded stadium that's a lot of seats to try and fill with a league still try to grow itself
As James and I talked about, that venue seems to make little sense, especially at the rate that the Panthers are drawing fans. The team is pretty good so here's to hoping there's a better turnout in the second half of the season.
Fans aren't stupid they're not going to invest until they see that the team is stable. Even though the attendance is low it doesn't look as bad on TV as Memphis
UFL shouldn't be trying to establish itself in NFL markets. especially in Michigan where they not only have an NFL team but TWO massive college football programs. Also the north doesn't have as intense of a football culture as the south does. They should target markets like Columbus, OH. Passionate football fans, big city, no NFL team. Same goes for places like Salt Lake City, San Diego, and Portland, OR. Hopefully they don't have to abandon the franchise but the optics are not looking good.
The outlier on that is DC, but they benefit from decades of terrible management from their NFL team. All the cities you named seem like really good fits for what I think the UFL can become if it's successful enough to continue and expand. And yes, something has to change with Detroit: either move them or change venues.
I will say the UFL definitely has the chance to have the cutest season so far with all these cuties on rosters. Really digging the talk boys and always shout out my boy James!
Arena football can fill the void if the UFL goes under . The IFL has some pretty solid Franchises, Arizona, Jacksonville, Tulsa to name a few . All they need is a National TV deal .
Maybe but I think it's such a different type of sport, the casual fans might not be into it. I enjoyed the old AFL (and af2) but I don't know if that's sustainable long term. I heard a podcast with a GM of several lower level teams and he said the biggest "sucker bet" is indoor football. He says no one has ever made money on it.
I dint know John. I discovered the IFL on TH-cam last year and I was immediately hooked . Gambling on the games is addictive. In fact after gambling on Arena football, I was bored betting on UFL games. They were to low scoring - which is why I don’t bet on Soccer. I think a different game might be what fans want now. Look at the success of Pickleball. Which is a miniature version of Tennis.
@creepofreek4853 maybe it could work. Problem is I just don't know if indoor football can catch the appeal of casual fans like it did back in the day, and even then it was still kinda niche until NBC got involved
The Panthers just need to win and things will improve. But it doesn't help that the Lions are really good now, because the Detroit fans aren't thirsty for an alternative anymore. The Stallions just need to be moved. The fan base there just sux. I said before they ever played a game that the attendance would be bad there because it's never been good there for spring football. The team has had too much success for attendance to be this trash for 3 seasons.
I don't know how optimistic I am about the Panthers chances now with Perry out, but even before that, I couldn't grasp why the attendance kept falling. As far as Birmingham goes, I wonder as the season progresses if the attendance will increase or tank. 12k for the first home game was a bit disappointing.
It's true but the Tigers were on the road the first UFL weekend, drew only 15k the Sunday of the Panthers second game and 17k the next home game that the Panthers were also playing. Something isn't connecting.
@johnlewissports honestly I think it's because the team need to come to Lansing where it's an 1 hour and 30 min from either side of michigan. I live on the west side of the state and I would buy season tickets but it's 3 hours of driving for me. I think that the real reason. That and they need to Advertise their tickets prices so people know how much they are.
@@justinwayne61 I hear a lot from people in different UFL cities that there's little to no marketing. The UFL had some community town halls before the season but doesn't sound like much is happening now and to your point, the general public doesn't even know it's happening or how much tickets are.
I believe a large portion of the decision making was what venue these teams would play in. I don't know if there was a suitable stadium (or there was no agreement to be made) in some cities. The Ford Field deal, for better or worse, was already in place.
I wonder if Michigan and Arlington will have to Relocate? Also, I would love to see Omaha Nebraska get a team they used to have a team in the old UFL and had a turnout of 24,000 fans at a game that I saw on youtube. the market there would be probably really good As well and also I like seeing states that don't have a pro football team get a team.
Which is strange but I think they're benefitting from the network and time. A midseason XFL game with Orlando got more than a million viewers because it was on ABC on a Saturday. For casual fans, the teams don't matter. The easy access does.
I remember that game. It edged over a million because it fortunately ran fairly long into the window for the 3 million+ viewer women’s college basketball tournament game that followed it. I think that game outdrew the entire prior week of XFL games combined!
Would it make sense for the Panthers to play in Lansing in the future? My thought is you would still be fairly close to Detroit, you would be much closer to Grand Rapids and you could sell cheap tickets to Michigan State students who are right there in Lansing.
Ratings still good. Take into effect the Dc Arlington game was competing vs the OSU spring game. Which drew a 660k rating. It bit into that UFL no doubt. This week will be tougher. FS1 game. Hope the other 3 games can average around 700k. 800k would be a major victory. Guess we’ll see….
@@johnlewissports easily it will. Unless they pull a surprise like they did last year when the Maulers Stallions did 540k 🤞🏼 Texas Showdown too. Hope it pulls some weight in big Tejas. 😃
Put them all in small states or small fairly descent town like sc gets a team could put one in app state stadium one in Myrtle beach start them all in-between g4 and g5 college stadium and add one to Dakota or north dakota
I don't know if that would help the "brand" of a league trying to compete for national eyeballs. I think that might hinder the new Arena Football League.
@@johnlewissports I think the ufl would benefit from playing in smaller soccer style stadiums.. sell them out, raise prices..would look better on television as well
I'm not too worried with the "low attendances" in some of the games from Week 3. After all the worse a team is doing record wise the more difficult it becomes for a home stadium to get "fans in the seats" to support them. As for the Michigan situation if they start getting on a winning streak before there next home game it wouldn't surprise me if more fans start attending. They had a real good turn out for the USFL games last season. 😀 Thanks again for your time.
@@johnlewissports Thanks for the reply. That's awesome news to hear on this. I know the Week 3 Stallions game was really packed compared to last year when USFL games were only in hubs. I'll take this encouragement in attendance over hub games any day of the week. 😀
@@waltsoph3 thanks for watching and commenting! I've seen a lot of spring leagues come and go, so we all have to look for positives where we can find them but we also have to point out the issues too!
I'm not surprised about low attendance especially taking so long to make the tickets available . i'd be happy with 10k at each game in the league in my opinion.
Or do some major camouflage if they return to Ford Field next year. Maybe if this team continues to be good, fans will show up but to your point, sounds like local marketing is an issue.
I want the Lamar Jackson to win a Super Bowl NBP award. That's fine, but it is. I really like to see him win a both. But the main thing I want to see the Michael. Jackson do is too when it's coming to taking the game. In his hand he should run the ball. When the wide receivers got the different spread it out and the middle is open. I won't his a** or run through that line do what he was doing during the regular season. That's why I want to see on my Jeep. Do I want to see the real of my Jessica? That really made me make a decision to be a Baltimore Ravens. Fan cause he's the only. Reason why I became a bot more ravens fan. I wantna see that Lamar Jackson the first time I saw him. Take the game in his hands. If The Wire receives is not open and he can't talk about either give it a Henry. You know, and you know he needs run it. Don't be afraid to run it. I know they're trying to protect you. But listen, you got the bag, man. You got the bag and so it's all on you now. It's easy for them to give you the bag, but see if you if you don't play do your job? If you don't take games in your hand do it on your own then they could be looking at you. While we paid you and you aint doing this and you know how the white folks are they pay you? And if you aint doing what they want you to do. They want to blame it on you too. So you need to take the game in your hands and with stuff like this. Come over like when you play the Kansas City chief the home. Don't let the The middle of the field be open and you don't run. No, sir. You got the run, that football brother. That was no excuses. I love you. And I want your favorite fans. But when the when the field is open and the wide receivers has spreaded, the defense out. You run that ball cause it's a debt wide open. You can at least get 2025 yd down the field. Take it out, take the game in your hands like Lebron James them do it man? Do it no excuses and I still don't have no excuses. I'm still there giving zayflowers. No excuses for job in the football.I don't care if he's a rookie.I'll still say his a** has no business dropping.At football and that's the name of that tune.It's no forgiveness.And it's no excuses for a record of me.Because in college they teach you how to hold the ball with 2 hands and he shouldn't know you get that money.And you play your ass off and you protect the football
I'm not seeing the drawback from three home games in a row. Seems like a lot of opportunity to build but somehow it's declining...and the team is pretty good!
@@johnlewissports i thought of it this way: three consecutive home games for a team that started selling tickets later than any other team will take a hit attendance wise vs. the same team that has three home games offered every other week. The fans just didn’t have any time to make accommodations.
it's sad if they have to pull a plug 🔌 on any of the teams. This is why they need to stop trying to do these deals with these massive sized stadiums and find MLS sized stadiums like Audi Field
I hope it doesn't come to that, but the lease with Ford Field makes no sense to me. Or the league should have found a way to configure it (or disguise it) in a way where it doesn't look totally empty. Still, the lack of fans showing up for games says a lot.
That's kind of hard to do in regards to scheduling along with the amount of money it will costs via the owners of the stadium or like what went down with Vegas....
@FlameWingMan Vegas is the cautionary tale for all spring leagues now.
Well there is an option but, it's not a Dome. They could move them to Waldo Stadium in Kalamazoo which seats 30+
Exactly. You need to build a fan base which just like in the MLS will take time and in most places you will never have a fan base big enough for Ford Field.
Ive been confused by the city choices by the XFL, USFL, and now the UFL. Obviously the cities like DC, San Antonio, and St louis should've kept their team without a doubt but Michigan and Arlington probably shouldn't. Memphis and Birmingham just need time to build a fan base up but Seattle should've kept their team and cities like Portland, San Diego and Omaha could probably have better attendance. Also i understand certain cities like Houston can get more corporate sponsors for the league.
I think initially, they needed to pick 8 teams that had either stadium leases in place or could get one (like Houston) and with already established teams. I believe honestly this year they just needed to get the merger done and get it off the ground quickly. Hopefully it's successful enough for expansion in 2025.
I think the UFL should stick to the same 8 teams for 2025. Just come back and do it again.
These leagues keep folding teams after 1 season, and fans are skeptical that the UFL will stick around.
Just come back with the same 8 teams. Market them aggressively in their home markets and see what attendance looks like next season.
In the end, I think 12-14 teams is the sweet spot. I don't think there is enough interest, money, or talent to field 16 teams.
Great discussion!
I'd rather have 8 teams for 2 years than a failed league that faltered because of too much expansion too quickly. Agreed!
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I think they should form a couple 'shop around' teams that have no city headquarters and play in various cities to gauge fan support and venue affordability. They can use old team names like the sea dragons and vipers
@@RagedContinuum not a bad idea. There's been mixed speculation about Canton and maybe that was a trial balloon that popped.
the major problem is that the league isn't promoting any of the teams in the cities they play in. like it wouldn't even have to be a lot of money committed to advertising just plus ads in the right markets or bank on the 80s USFL legacy of them being a championship team
I've heard the marketing is hit and miss in some cities. There was a nice media blitz before the season kicked off but I'm not sure that's happening now. I know the teams are trying to get earned media with weekly news conferences but I'm not sure how that's going over in each market.
@@johnlewissports it wouldn't even have to be extensive the GMs of each team could promote the team or they could fly the home team out to the city a day or two early so they can do a media day or something to drum up hype for the upcoming game
The attendance in Memphis isn’t exactly much better
You're not wrong. That's especially disappointing since they had 15k for their home opener last year. I really thought fan interest would be there this year.
@@johnlewissports it’s almost like when the tickets aren’t available at the 99 cent bargain bin at Best Buy, “fans” suddenly don’t want to show up in usfl markets anymore except for Birmingham
@@rangersking6699 I knew when the $10 deals and the season ticket holders were getting four free tickets that sales were lagging
@@kpowers Memphis did not even play at Home in week one, they played at Houston. Houston will crater though because they’re no good
Just a good year where no team is totally terrible, and an offseason where we are stable and keep all the same teams, would go a long way for building trust in spring football. I feel like it’s the general consensus that it doesn’t work and or isn’t real football. Nobody’s willing to watch or get attached. The AAF and XFL 2020 really hurt the idea of spring footballs reputation
Absolutely on point. People aren't trusting of spring football in some places to invest their time and/or money. When's the last time we had three straight seasons of one traditional spring football league?
Thats why I'm hopeful and cautiously optimistic that the merger might be the first step in rebuilding trust.
The ticket issues have been the start of Michigan's problems. Having to play when the Tigers and Red Wings are also playing either at the same time, or same day doesn't help when all of them are right next to each other.
With Fiesta starting this week in San Antonio and a carnival taking place right next to the stadium, hopefully that gives a bump to the numbers on Saturday even though the regular parking lot is being used for it. There will still be tailgating, just not in Lot C.
Always has been the trouble with spring football in cities that have baseball and/or NHL. A lot of people bring up St Louis, but that's the outlier. I don't know if there's a better venue for the Panthers in Detroit, but that's a rough look.
I still maintain that the league made a big mistake by cutting out the 8 teams this season. They could have stayed 8 vs 8, kept the USFL and XFL Conferences separate and played each other in the Championship Game.
I think it was about economics to get it merged and launched (again). A 16 team league might have been good for fans, but I'm not sure it was feasible with a merger that was assembled so quickly.
Should’ve kept At least 12 teams.
@@Mike-aka747 I thought they might keep 10 but honestly, I'd rather have 8 and have multiple years of the UFL rather than a gamble and it folds after a year. This might be spring football's last chance at this scale for awhile.
@@johnlewissports I get the logic of it. And they probably got it right. But to look major league need more teams. I hope they expand to 12 next year. 🤞🏼
@@Mike-aka747 speak it into existence!
i think it may be to early to think about pulling the plug on a team.i think attendence is a double edge sword,everygame is on tv,some fans may prefer to stay home and watch.i think attendence has been down in college football, and i notice quite a few empty seats at some nfl games, and across other professional leagues. however i think it goes to show what iv'e been saying all along,the league would be better served to explore,new markets. certainly cities without existing nfl teams, or with few or any professional league teams,i think the eague could do a better job of marketing teams in cities..as for the panthers if attendence continues to decline,may be time to relocate, if so,why not keep them in michigan, some other city like grand rapids?i feel the same way about the houston roughnecks,,as memphis,i think its a wait and see for them, memphis has always had pretty good attendence for spring league football,as have birmingham.
Hard for me to envision the UFL looking the same in 2025. As we talked about, it's not all based on attendance but you can't put that on TV and expect casual fans to be curious.
@@johnlewissports ohh,i agree,i think in detroit for example, most of the sports talk,is probably about the nfl draft, who the lions will take no 1, who else they may select...and if the tigers,pistons,or redwings are good,and in contention,their going to get most of the attention in spring and summer, an expansion league,is a blip,on their radar, and i just feel it's the same in all these major markets.
I have no idea why the ufl would focus on Detroit. Like, it’s Detroit. 😂
There's history there and it's a top 15 TV market. I haven't seen the market by market TV ratings yet, but strangely, games involving Detroit have been getting good viewership...just not in person.
@@johnlewissportsWouldn’t keeping an XFL team like Seattle have been a better, more prudent choice than keeping Michigan from the USFL?
@@cityhawk I don't know how the finances of the Ford Field deal compares with Lumen Field. As James said, the lease with Ford Field is pricy but no specifics were released. I think the UFL might have believed a buyer would be easier to find in Michigan than in Seattle. All speculation on my part.
I don't see any promo in our area for them. At all. I see very little advertisements for the league in general. They need a promo blitz for the entire league because outside of St. Louis, no one seems to be aware of it.
This seems to be a common complaint and that's a real problem. Die hards know all about it, but to get others, you have to let people know it's happening. Saw a lot of promos out and about in St Louis this weekend.
A bit disappointing... They are the Michigan Panthers not the Detroit Panthers so maybe moving them somewhere else in the state would be an idea. Grand Rapids maybe? Ford Field & a couple of the others are just too big, granted St Louis is the exception, maybe shoot for stadiums with capacities from 25-40 thousand (if that's sustainable?)
Not a bad idea at all. The soccer stadium there in Detroit might be too small but there has to be a better venue than Ford Field.
I’m from California n I watch every game n I’ll be watching every games this weekend 🤷🏾♂️
Kentucky here and I'll be doing the same!
I'm from Illinois and I'll be watching every game this weekend too.. especially since I got a car accident LOL and bed Nidden at the moment LOL
@@ryanr9299 get better soon!
The rise of Lions may have contributed to the lack of interest in Panthers?
That's a good possibility when you consider the DC Defenders no doubt benefitted from the terrible stink of Washington's NFL team
Great video. I think local advertising would help. I never saw a local tv spot for the Brahmas. I'm guessing that's the same for the other cities as well. Plus it would be nice if at the very least the league build a relationship with the local ABC and Fox tv affiliate. Right now the local channels in S.A are hit and miss with local coverage.
Thank you! I appreciate that. It feels like St Louis has a good relationship with the local affiliates, but I think that's a 2 way street. Stations realize there's fan interest, so they welcome the coverage and vice versa. If the perception from the stations is that there's not much fan interest, it's easier to do nothing rather than make the effort to cover them. Your point about building a relationship is accurate: sometimes you have to have an advocate who is a decision maker in a TV station to get coverage.
There's more of a Birmingham problem than a Michigan problem.
Birmingham with an overall 21-3 record can't draw a St. Louis type crowd. That's the problem.
I think Birmingham's attendance is disappointing so far and is A problem. I don't think when it comes to attendance it's THE problem. Dropping below 7k in Detroit is a huge red flag.
@@johnlewissports agreed but what I think is really disappointing is that the mayor promised the team a championship parade 2 years in a row and they never happen
@@thechristianmale129 I thought the reason for no parade in 2022 was because everyone had left. I know they had one last year but yeah, any team that wins a championship should get a parade on whatever level.
always thought Seattle Dragons would have been a better choice
I think after the Vegas debacle, Seattle was on an island. Hopefully the league is successful and we can see some west coast teams
John I think this will be the last season of UFL. It takes 30 years for a league to take off and a pro football league on a 100 yard field is just to expensive to maintain for that long. It’s a shame ..
I hope that's not the case but you make some good points. With three financial backing of Disney and Fox, hopefully the expenses are minimal considering their overall budgets.
But yeah, if this doesn't work, I can't imagine we see a spring football league on a scale like this in a long time.
I think the networks can make a deal with some college divisions to play meaningful games in the spring. The infrastructure is already in place with a fan base .
@@creepofreek4853 the game is changing. I could totally see a conference taking the money to move to spring
Birmingham had lower attendance against DC. It could’ve been the weather being cool and rainy or most likely it was Talladega weekend which is BIG in the state of Alabama.
Severe weather was forecast (and did happen resulting in a long delay) so there's no doubt those factors kept attendance down.
St. Louis supports the Battlehawks as well as it does the Cardinals, Blues, and its new soccer team. It has been great seeing the Dome loud again like back in the days of Kurt Warner and company. The STL Rams went from the Greatest Show on Turf to the worst team in the NFL for years and attendance did drop off. A good team helps attendance no matter the sport. That being said, STL was ready to build yet another new stadium for the Rams and the Stan Kroenke move to L.A. for its very large TV market was really upsetting expecially after learning of his indemniifcation agreement to compensate NFL owners in the event of any STL lawsuits to swing their relocation votes from STL to L.A. St. Louis should have been awarded an expansion team as I belleive a new owner would have been found. In St. Louis, KA KAW in the Law. Win or lose, the Battlehawks are an exciting team like those Rams teams of Kurt Warner.
No doubt they support the Battlehawks. I was at the game Saturday (might be a video coming soon 😉) and it was rocking with 31,000 people. Impressive enough but considering there were 41,000 fans at the Cardinals game at the same time, that makes it even more impressive.
@@johnlewissports I also thought the Battlehawks attrendance may have dropped some with the Cards game at the same time like you mention. Having a competitive team does help attendance. Not sure how big would be the attendance if they were now 0-4 losing every game like 30-7 as some of those STL Rams teams. I know Michigan is a hotbed for football but maybe their big college football teams and following the Lions is enough football for them. Then again it is minor league football so like a minor league baseball team, but I do like how most games are close and pretty well played by all the teams.
It's a good league with really good play for the most part. But I do think the UFL is going to have to rethink some things moving forward into 2025
To the person who messes before me, You absolutely right they should play on MLS stadiums I be telling my people too about it that’s the best bet because we need UFL and the NFL news it too
Gotta find some venue other than Ford Field. That's not working. MLS working pretty nicely for DC!
Agreed the league is not promoting any of the teams in the respective cities. Take for example the St. Louis Battlehawks began going out into the community like local high school football games and so on. The teams have to do their part during the offseason (and yes it's understandable the merger was hanging in the balance). Two factors: 1) the teams need to practice at their home cities, this way you don't get a scarce connection to the community, and 2) March 31st is too long of a wait to start a spring football season, the momentum from the Super Bowl is practically gone and the urgency to have more football in mid-February would be more appropriate. Realistically you are having to compete with College Basketball post-season and currently with NHL and NBA Playoffs, there's no escape we all have to compete for viewership.
Agreed on all points. My gut tells me there will be some important changes for the 2025 season, including a stronger marketing effort in the communities and hopefully an earlier kickoff date.
Daryl Johnston was pretty open about getting this merger completed quickly and just trying to get the season going. Hopefully there's a lot being learned and we see some big improvements next season.
No. Give it another year. Promote better. Then see where it goes from there. There’s other problems in Memphis and Arlington too. Houston has only played 1 game there so far. Let’s see if the Texas Showdown drums
Up a decent crowd. That’s almost half the league though. They the UFL needs to work on promoting better in their home cities.
As we talked about in the video, I think this was a "let's hurry up and get this going" this year. Hopefully lessons are learned this year and applied next year.
I guess I can't judge based on the rest of the league in the UFL, but they are playing in an NFL graded stadium that's a lot of seats to try and fill with a league still try to grow itself
As James and I talked about, that venue seems to make little sense, especially at the rate that the Panthers are drawing fans. The team is pretty good so here's to hoping there's a better turnout in the second half of the season.
Attendance is low because fans want to see if the league is going to stick around that's the problem in San Antonio
Yep too many fans have been burnt for sure. I will say it seems that the venue is totally wrong for the Panthers right now
Fans aren't stupid they're not going to invest until they see that the team is stable. Even though the attendance is low it doesn't look as bad on TV as Memphis
Memphis might be my biggest disappointment of the year. I was really hoping the team would be good and fans would invest.
UFL shouldn't be trying to establish itself in NFL markets. especially in Michigan where they not only have an NFL team but TWO massive college football programs. Also the north doesn't have as intense of a football culture as the south does. They should target markets like Columbus, OH. Passionate football fans, big city, no NFL team. Same goes for places like Salt Lake City, San Diego, and Portland, OR. Hopefully they don't have to abandon the franchise but the optics are not looking good.
The outlier on that is DC, but they benefit from decades of terrible management from their NFL team. All the cities you named seem like really good fits for what I think the UFL can become if it's successful enough to continue and expand. And yes, something has to change with Detroit: either move them or change venues.
Those are average high school attendances in the state of Texas.
Not wrong. Some of those games outdraw a lot of pro sports!
I will say the UFL definitely has the chance to have the cutest season so far with all these cuties on rosters. Really digging the talk boys and always shout out my boy James!
I'm going to go with your assessment on that 🤣
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Next year: move the Panthers to Canton, or Cleveland, or Cincinnati, or Columbus.
I'm a fan of putting a team in Canton but it really needs some major promotion. Columbus would be another great site. Agreed.
Arena football can fill the void if the UFL goes under . The IFL has some pretty solid Franchises, Arizona, Jacksonville, Tulsa to name a few . All they need is a National TV deal .
Maybe but I think it's such a different type of sport, the casual fans might not be into it. I enjoyed the old AFL (and af2) but I don't know if that's sustainable long term. I heard a podcast with a GM of several lower level teams and he said the biggest "sucker bet" is indoor football. He says no one has ever made money on it.
I dint know John. I discovered the IFL on TH-cam last year and I was immediately hooked . Gambling on the games is addictive. In fact after gambling on Arena football, I was bored betting on UFL games. They were to low scoring - which is why I don’t bet on Soccer. I think a different game might be what fans want now. Look at the success of Pickleball. Which is a miniature version of Tennis.
@creepofreek4853 maybe it could work. Problem is I just don't know if indoor football can catch the appeal of casual fans like it did back in the day, and even then it was still kinda niche until NBC got involved
They should have snagged Jim Harbaugh for coach.
Think that might have soaked the budget for the league's next decade
The Panthers just need to win and things will improve. But it doesn't help that the Lions are really good now, because the Detroit fans aren't thirsty for an alternative anymore.
The Stallions just need to be moved. The fan base there just sux. I said before they ever played a game that the attendance would be bad there because it's never been good there for spring football. The team has had too much success for attendance to be this trash for 3 seasons.
I don't know how optimistic I am about the Panthers chances now with Perry out, but even before that, I couldn't grasp why the attendance kept falling.
As far as Birmingham goes, I wonder as the season progresses if the attendance will increase or tank. 12k for the first home game was a bit disappointing.
What about Memphis?
If things keep progressing, might be a conversation worth having!
Aaaand Case Cookus and Ej Perry both got hurt since this video
To no one's surprise. I hate it for both of them and for the league.
it doesnt help that the tiger game is going on around the same time. more people know about the tiger over the panther.
It's true but the Tigers were on the road the first UFL weekend, drew only 15k the Sunday of the Panthers second game and 17k the next home game that the Panthers were also playing. Something isn't connecting.
@johnlewissports honestly I think it's because the team need to come to Lansing where it's an 1 hour and 30 min from either side of michigan. I live on the west side of the state and I would buy season tickets but it's 3 hours of driving for me. I think that the real reason. That and they need to Advertise their tickets prices so people know how much they are.
@@justinwayne61 I hear a lot from people in different UFL cities that there's little to no marketing. The UFL had some community town halls before the season but doesn't sound like much is happening now and to your point, the general public doesn't even know it's happening or how much tickets are.
They should have kept either New Orleans, New Jersey or Philadelphia over Michigan
I believe a large portion of the decision making was what venue these teams would play in. I don't know if there was a suitable stadium (or there was no agreement to be made) in some cities. The Ford Field deal, for better or worse, was already in place.
I wonder if Michigan and Arlington will have to Relocate? Also, I would love to see Omaha Nebraska get a team they used to have a team in the old UFL and had a turnout of 24,000 fans at a game that I saw on youtube. the market there would be probably really good As well and also I like seeing states that don't have a pro football team get a team.
I think the UFL is too invested in Arlington, but the Michigan issue has to be resolved. I remember the Nighthawks! The old UFL was a lot of fun.
Move Arlington to Orlando!
@@car83_ Or to OKC.. The travel still wouldn't be that bad then to Texas
@@car83_ or to Albuquerque Love to see the state of New Mexico Get a football team
Panthers games have the second highest TV viewership, just slightly behind the Battlehawks.
Which is strange but I think they're benefitting from the network and time. A midseason XFL game with Orlando got more than a million viewers because it was on ABC on a Saturday. For casual fans, the teams don't matter. The easy access does.
I remember that game. It edged over a million because it fortunately ran fairly long into the window for the 3 million+ viewer women’s college basketball tournament game that followed it. I think that game outdrew the entire prior week of XFL games combined!
Move them to Canton and rename them the Bulldogs.
That thought has crossed my mind a few times. Canton is such a great setup and venue. Loved it up there when I visited for games last spring.
Why are these dudes even playing at ford field? they should be playing a small college or big high school stadium.
As an outsider, I would guess they wanted the team to have some legitimacy and not run into a Vegas situation, but this isn't working.
Move them to Portland.
If there's an expansion/move, you'd have to think the UFL would start to look westward!
Grand. Valley. State. DOES. NOT. HAVE. The. Stadium. Infrastructure!!
What's the latest on the Grand Action 2.0 project? From the drawings, looked like a good venue for soccer and football!
Moving to a smaller venue somewhere else in Michigan?
Possibly but the question is where? A lot of people suggest Grand Rapids.
Would it make sense for the Panthers to play in Lansing in the future? My thought is you would still be fairly close to Detroit, you would be much closer to Grand Rapids and you could sell cheap tickets to Michigan State students who are right there in Lansing.
I think that's a good idea. I don't want see the Panthers leave Michigan, but it's hard to see a long term future in Detroit.
Ratings still good. Take into effect the Dc Arlington game was competing vs the OSU spring game. Which drew a 660k rating. It bit into that UFL no doubt. This week will be tougher. FS1 game. Hope the other 3 games can average around 700k. 800k would be a major victory. Guess we’ll see….
That's what we are hoping to see. That FS1 game might be the lowest rated of the year
@@johnlewissports easily it will. Unless they pull a surprise like they did last year when the Maulers Stallions did 540k 🤞🏼 Texas Showdown too. Hope it pulls some weight in big Tejas. 😃
Put them all in small states or small fairly descent town like sc gets a team could put one in app state stadium one in Myrtle beach start them all in-between g4 and g5 college stadium and add one to Dakota or north dakota
I don't know if that would help the "brand" of a league trying to compete for national eyeballs. I think that might hinder the new Arena Football League.
Move em 2 grand rapids they will draw
And they can keep the name!
@@johnlewissports my only question is where would they play
@@CCOS1214 Grand Rapids has talked about building an 8500 seat soccer stadium in the past. Seems like that might work out.
@@johnlewissports I think the ufl would benefit from playing in smaller soccer style stadiums.. sell them out, raise prices..would look better on television as well
@@CCOS1214 it's certainly working for DC. You have to think that if the league returns in 2025, that'll be on the table
I'm not too worried with the "low attendances" in some of the games from Week 3.
After all the worse a team is doing record wise the more difficult it becomes for a home stadium to get "fans in the seats" to support them.
As for the Michigan situation if they start getting on a winning streak before there next home game it wouldn't surprise me
if more fans start attending. They had a real good turn out for the USFL games last season. 😀
Thanks again for your time.
Sadly the turnout this year is better than last year, according to Mike Mitchell, so let's hope for the best when they return!
@@johnlewissports Thanks for the reply.
That's awesome news to hear on this.
I know the Week 3 Stallions game was really packed compared to last year when USFL games were only in hubs.
I'll take this encouragement in attendance over hub games any day of the week. 😀
@@waltsoph3 thanks for watching and commenting! I've seen a lot of spring leagues come and go, so we all have to look for positives where we can find them but we also have to point out the issues too!
@@johnlewissports Of course. Here's hoping for the best this season. 😃
Lesson: Do not name your pro football team "The Panthers". It only leads to misery
🤣🤣🤣it's not gone well in recent history.
I'm not surprised about low attendance especially taking so long to make the tickets available . i'd be happy with 10k at each game in the league in my opinion.
Outside of dc and st. louis obviously lol
10k at games would be a better look for sure!
Promote it better and play in a smaller stadium. Look at DC playing at Audi field. Place looks packed. Find another stadium in the 20-40K range
Or do some major camouflage if they return to Ford Field next year. Maybe if this team continues to be good, fans will show up but to your point, sounds like local marketing is an issue.
People in New Orleans support football
I've been reading about some projects on the table there for new or refurbished stadiums. Would love to see the Breakers return!
Move them to GR
Seems to be a popular suggestion!
GVSU doesn't have the stadium infrastructure!!!
WHAA?
❓
I want the Lamar Jackson to win a Super Bowl NBP award. That's fine, but it is. I really like to see him win a both. But the main thing I want to see the Michael. Jackson do is too when it's coming to taking the game. In his hand he should run the ball. When the wide receivers got the different spread it out and the middle is open. I won't his a** or run through that line do what he was doing during the regular season. That's why I want to see on my Jeep. Do I want to see the real of my Jessica? That really made me make a decision to be a Baltimore Ravens. Fan cause he's the only. Reason why I became a bot more ravens fan. I wantna see that Lamar Jackson the first time I saw him. Take the game in his hands. If The Wire receives is not open and he can't talk about either give it a Henry. You know, and you know he needs run it. Don't be afraid to run it. I know they're trying to protect you. But listen, you got the bag, man. You got the bag and so it's all on you now. It's easy for them to give you the bag, but see if you if you don't play do your job? If you don't take games in your hand do it on your own then they could be looking at you. While we paid you and you aint doing this and you know how the white folks are they pay you? And if you aint doing what they want you to do. They want to blame it on you too. So you need to take the game in your hands and with stuff like this. Come over like when you play the Kansas City chief the home. Don't let the The middle of the field be open and you don't run. No, sir. You got the run, that football brother. That was no excuses. I love you. And I want your favorite fans. But when the when the field is open and the wide receivers has spreaded, the defense out. You run that ball cause it's a debt wide open. You can at least get 2025 yd down the field. Take it out, take the game in your hands like Lebron James them do it man? Do it no excuses and I still don't have no excuses. I'm still there giving zayflowers. No excuses for job in the football.I don't care if he's a rookie.I'll still say his a** has no business dropping.At football and that's the name of that tune.It's no forgiveness.And it's no excuses for a record of me.Because in college they teach you how to hold the ball with 2 hands and he shouldn't know you get that money.And you play your ass off and you protect the football
🫡
Fake news. Its one season.
Yet the Panthers have played for three straight years 🤔
WFL USFL WLAF XFL UFL ARENA ....Alll dead cept 1 other LEAGUE CFL
The UFL isn't dead yet. Don't bury them too early.
Three home games in a row will do that. Let’s keep building
I'm not seeing the drawback from three home games in a row. Seems like a lot of opportunity to build but somehow it's declining...and the team is pretty good!
@@johnlewissports i thought of it this way: three consecutive home games for a team that started selling tickets later than any other team will take a hit attendance wise vs. the same team that has three home games offered every other week. The fans just didn’t have any time to make accommodations.
@@gboni66 that makes sense. Shaky start all around.