guys really I promise the Over the Hedge video is coming this month please you gotta believe me plea anyway here that PLUG: www.patreon.com/pillarofgarbage
That comment from the Cyclops stan nearly triggered me into ranting to you about how as much as 97' did an amazing job actually making Scott a full fledged character, that still doesn't make Wolverine and the Xmen any less of a show... that show beats out those movies and Evolution with little effort. Hell Scott from that show has more in common with 97 Scott than 92' Scott. Well damn, I guess I still ended up triggered enough for a small rant anyway...
@@ellugerdelacruz2555 in regards to your linking me a video that starts with a 'waifu handbook' sponsorship (which, lmao): th-cam.com/video/1gSvQcd2X-c/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Z64QuVsZGgLkGH3j
The biggest problem with X-Men 97 is that it sets an impossibly high bar for Disney when they eventually try an introduce their own version into the MCU.
And I say to that. I don't care. X-Men are best animated. Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes is the best Avengers version, Spectacular Spider-Man is the (IMO) the best Spidey version. Live action can never match the imagination of the comics, but animation is the next best thing. Live action can just do it's best to not suck. Something I don't have confidence Disney can do any longer without a major internal overhaul.
Best hilarious jab at Fox's X-Men live action: Cyclops: "Almost forgot!" *gives X-Men uniform to his son* Cable: "Am I going to war or a circus?" Cyclops: "What did you expect? Black leather?"
This is one of those things where being wrong doesn't matter, because either way we got a great X men show and that leaves people with something to be happy about. I had VERY low expectations for this going in, and I am so glad I was wrong myself. Im sure all of us are. Edit: Personally I think of this as more than a continuation of the original cartoon, I see it as a love letter from people that watched the show, loved it, and was so passionate about it that they wanted to see these stories and characters they loved taken to their utmost potential and depth.
This is what we should aspire to when it comes to sequels/adaptations etc. It doesn't matter if they're straight continuations or not, what matters is that they're made by people with a passion for the source material and something interesting to say or do with it.
Honestly, that second paragraph is how I think *every studio* should approach continuations/revivals. Have people that grew up with and hold a special place in their heart for the original. Like, there are so many talented artists who were *inspired directly by certain series* to even begin their craft. Give those talents the chance to uphold the memory of the thing to start it all for them, and you almost guarantee success
@@Kurotama11 yeah that’s exactly how I feel. Passion should be the driving force behind Hollywood, and honestly art in general, like it has been so many times before. The way I see it, there are always going to be people that love and feel so passionate about something that they lose sleep over it, they dream of it, it consumes their every thought like some Oppenheimer type shit, and that’s the kind of people we need to be making this stuff.
Yes! The brief moments when they had to put backstory in the dialogue was like (yeah, we know to people who watched the original) a quick rundown to a new audience to catch them up. It didn’t alienate either audience of adults who watched this as a kid or younger ones who never seen it before. It’s for everyone. A universal story of being “other” and hated for it as well as what it means to be a family, love, and the pain of grief. As an adult who watched this as a child, people who became parents feel the weight of this show on a deeper level with the development of Scott, Jean, Madelyn, and Cable’s relationship. What they managed to do in 10 episodes was tremendous and I can’t wait until season Two and beyond!
Same. I was never a fan of him in the original animated series, and he was practically a nothing in the original x-men movies and that kind of stuck with me. He just seemed like the typical one-dimensional boy scout character with no subtlety or nuance. The first episode did more to make him interesting than the last 30 years of TV and movies.
The poet Robert Duncan liked the make the case that, in the end, there is no such thing as “originality,” at least not in any distinct, independent, somehow separated from influences sense. That, instead, originality always stems from the unique confluence of various influences upon a creative, and how said creative responds to and uses them. And that non-originality stems from either resisting the inherent uniqueness of that confluence, or in denying the sheer fact of confluence.
To any fans who are not watching X-Men 97 i say good riddance! Tired of salty fanboys and fangirls getting triggered over trivial issues. Because the reality is that the mutant narrative has always been about racism. Along with that, they have always dealt with all types of bigotry. So, I fail to see why some "fans" are upset with the context of the series.
They aren't even fans. They are rage-baiters who know angry videos drives traffic and make thousands of dollars from TH-cam feeding off angry (usually white) men. They jumped ship when realised the show is universally acclaimed and faced strong pushback which would've caused drop in views and therefore ad revenue
In this series you’re getting the gravity of “Great Replacement Theory” and “The Final Solution “ preached by Bastion. This is the best way to show the horrors of both.
In trying to fight the perception that humans are being replaced, he strips everything that makes humans human turning them into the very monsters he fears mutants to be. It's chef's kiss.
As a long time X-Men fan and fan of the original series even though I wasn't born when the show was around, but HOLY S*** THIS SERIES IS EX-CEPTIONAL. No joke this series is so masterfully well written, phenomenal animation and truly compelling characters and deep dark themes that puts the Fox X-Men movies to shame. Truthfully this series is some of the *BEST MARVEL MEDIA WEVE SEEN EVER SINCE ENDGAME* (except GOTG3 and Loki)! Compared to how phenomenal this series is the Fox movies seemed like amateur student films with such a bare-bone understanding of how truly incredible and insane the X-Men stories can be when you truly hire people that care about these amazing characters.
X-men'97 is a great example of how everyone tends to miss the point about these things (by which I mean the wave of "anti-adaptation hate.") It's not that you hate adaptations because "they are unoriginal" and "hollywood is out of ideas", it's that these things just haven't been given the love and care needed to make something good.
Or the more obvious one: You didn't understand the original work anyway, and the adaptation pulling from it, sometimes even recreating story bits beat by beat, showing it full force and making you think with your now adult brain rubs you the wrong way, so you created some delusions about how "tainted" it is now when it's just forcing you to actually look at the IP you only looked at as a 12 year old one time with an adult mindset.
I do think that the spectrum you mention is still dealing with the weight of an industry that simply does not feel comfortable touching anything without an established brand attached-even if the story itself is technically “original”
Xmen 97 is pretty good. I feel like a kid watching it and surprised they brought things from the comics that i thought would never be adapted. Everything is based on something. Even the few ideas i am working on are based on ideas that are based on obscured historical documents.
I think when people complain about the overreliance on existing IP, they're largely complaining about the overreliance on already (arguably) overutilized IP. Based on a book or not, there's only been one Oppenheimer movie. And probably really only one Barbie movie, setting aside direct-to-video animated pap made with no higher artistic ambition than selling cheap plastic dolls. There have been ten Batman movies. Eight Spider-Man movies. 33 MCU movies. (In 16 years. There haven't even been that many Bond movies. Since the 60s). Start lumping these together into bigger categories like DC and Marvel and the numbers become mind-boggling.
A lot of this is more trends than necessarily overusing IP I’d say….atleast once you get into the more general categorizations like “MCU movies” or “Comic Book Movies” We just happen to have been in a phase where super hero adaptations were the popular thing….and Marvel just so happened to hit a goldmine by perfecting the idea of a cinematic *universe* . This is the only thing that allowed for such a heavy influx of content all heavily related to each other.
you seem to struggle with accepting that there are good marvel movies and bad marvel movies. the good ones aren't good because they're marvel movies, and the bad ones aren't bad because they're marvel movies. it's the individual qualities of the films that determines their worthiness.
Just gonna say it - best Marvel cartoon since Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes. Which is a high bar, but to be fair the original X-Men cartoon is one of the few Marvel shows to clear that bar.
what is originality the word is used a lot but does anyone know what it means ? there are hundreds of original ideas out there (the movie if as an example ) they just don't have the massive fan bases old franchises have
All films, books..are at the end based or inspired in another that came before, and the first fictional story probably was based on reality, nothing is 100% original, real life, other books etc, life experiences are the bone of the stories I mean, the infamous Red Wedding was based in a real event, the Faith of the Seven is fictional Christianity and Pluto's (dog) name seems to be in honor of the discovery of Pluto (ex-planet) whose name comes from Pluto (roman God) that is Hades (Greek god) etc etc
@@SouthizedWell, that’s easy. It’s based on the communal hippie subculture that was prevalent in 1960’s America. It was also a spiritual successor to Hopper and Fonda’s last collaborative film before it, The Trip. Peter Fonda has also explicitly said it’s based off Westerns, and is supposed to be a modern take on the genre.
@@patonebloont8824 sorry i misread your statement i thought i read that no film can he made without a book story that came before. Buy one film that is 100% real life is sound of freedom
Shakespeare only wrote two, maybe three wholly "original" plays (not directly adapted from historical sources or existing stories), The Tempest, Love's Labour's Lost, and A Midsummer Night's Dream. The idea that originality can only be expressed through new IPs is a modern expectation set by how absolutely awful and generic most Hollywood films have become. Nobody rags on The Godfather or Jaws for being book adaptations. The issue is with motivation and execution. The Disney live action remakes of animated classics is a perfect example of film as pure commodity, designed just to hit the beats you remember, adjust it to modern sensibilities, and make sure there's something in it to attract every demographic. Great stories don't have to come from a wholly novel idea, they just have to have a reason to exist beyond making gobs of money and good execution. X-Men '97 is a great example of this approach.
Shakespeare is a great example because there’s also been so many stagings of his plays. Thousands of actors have played Hamlet, yet no one bats an eye or questions the prestige of that role. Meanwhile, we can’t fathom recasting RDJ as Iron Man.
Also as a shakespeare nerd this is such a good analogy because if anybody actually claimed there were only 3 original shakespeare plays, that would be a WILD claim, like absolutely batshit insane, and it's the same here
The finale of X-Men 97 Season 1 was pure unadulterated awesomeness and I look forward for Season 2. With Apocalypse as the new main antagonist and En Sabah Nur as an unlikely ally of the time displaced X-Men!
I have two thoughts on this. One is that they'll adapt Rise of Apocalypse (and possibly Fantastic Four #19) in a fairly straightforward manner, and the X-men will leave the same way the FF left. The other is that they might end up messing with events and cause the cartoon's version of Age of Apocalypse. This was my peak X-Men period, and I kinda stopped early in the Bastion story arc.
@@kittycatmeowmeow963they probably watched the series or even read the comics, they just decided to not acknowledge or wanting to go more deeper what the X-Men wanting to say they just saw heroes fighting bad guys and when reality hits that x men is trying to tell something they don't like it, they aren't really fans they're just readers
Man, I feel a little bad for the Fall Guy because I loved the hell out of the movie, and it was so very clearly a love letter from a director who worked his way up from being a stunt man himself and so much more than just a reboot of the classic series. But at the same time a love letter to that classic series for being an inspiration for so many stunt workers themselves. Fantastic cheeky 4th wall meta commentary, tons of excellent set up and payoff gags, and just charming characters all around. And an honestly sweet emotional core.
I think that the trick was, that X-men 97 was a direct continuation instead of an adaption or reboot. which means that they could to later season storylines in season 1 instead of bogging things down with origin stories and starter villains.
What a phenomenal season of Marvel Television! This season and finale were absolutely incredible, and it really had it all! Great writing, jaw-dropping animation, masterful music, amazing voice acting performances, brilliant pacing, respect for the original source material/90s animated series, and lots of fun/really cool Cameos and Easter Eggs for the fans to enjoy! I'm so excited/hyped for Season 2 and will be counting down the days! This finale and the whole season get a 100/10 from me!
this video got so meta and i loved it man, the overarching analysis of how art imitates and is constantly commenting on itself. so true! feels like this season managed to manage a meta commentary about the x-men and what they originally stood for and made it authentic while imbuing it with a new soul. it’s like art is just hats on hats on hats
@@PillarofGarbage And that shaved Wookiee wearing aviators and angrily declaring all the historical interpretations wrong in Luthen's shop was definitely based on TCD - even I thought it was a bit much.
All the people who said this would be another woke, bad show really shut up after this. It's clear that these people care more about pointing this they disagree with and not what is wrong with the show. It feels as if they assume every piece of media will be bad so they call it woke beforehand so after they can say AHAH I was right.
Well if you actually seen the vast majority of bad shows or films you can understand why they would be skeptical but I guess you are too close minded to actually listen or respect others opinions. Believe or not not everyone who complains are racist!
Despite my gripes with the finale of the season, the overall show is fuckn awesome and much better than anything I would have hoped from marvel studios or even from a continuation of the og show. '97 sweep, essentially.
and to your more general point about adaptation, we overestimate how original various stories are. Every story is a mosiac of inspirations and retellings of other stories, and it would do us well to remember that.
A single clip of Scott Summers in a warehouse made me aware/interested in X-Men again. Thank you instagram reels🙏The way they are adapting things make me excited for Age of Apocalypse, but also to Feral Wolverine, Onslaught and Death of The X-Men too, which are all story arcs I didn’t originally enjoy
It does do an awesome job linking a series of disparate comic stories into a more cohesive narrative through-line, but I do think this video massively overstates how much X-Men '97 tells a different story form the comics. Despite being a video about how originality is made-up and nothing is truly original, and that's more about vibes than anything, it kinda tries to justify all the ways that '97 is "original", when really it is mostly *just* vibes. '97 is an incredibly faithful adaptation of X-Men comics. I would argue that's WHY it's so good. X-Men comics are amazing! It's just that nobody reads comics and that's a shame.
Next The Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes Season 3 Maybe It Can Be Called The Avengers: Beyond Earth’s Mightiest Heroes Because Marvel Calls The Avengers That Name
I heard once only 12 notes is used to make most of music and I feel that how much creative works are nothing is in a vacuum what makes something creative is how they're use
1:50 - I think that most people complaining about "too many reboots" don't actually have a full understanding of film/TV history; it's always been dependent on remakes. It's just a real lazy way to say "I don't like that they're remaking this, they should make stuff that *I* want them to make"
3:35 this is exactly what the TAS did too. in 2024, they did FATAL ATTRACTION with rouge instead of colossus, in 92l they did DAYS OF FUTURE PAST with bishop instead of kitty. it lives up to TAS's legacy of adapting the comics.
To your credit, there was a basis for your statements. In regards to originality vs adaption, it’s always gonna be debatable with merits on both sides. In the case of the X-Men, they are flexible enough where they can handle both rather well, so long as you keep the core of the characters.
I always felt that the criticism leveled against the Avatar movies, that they are just a retelling of Pocahontas, but in blue, was particularly weak. Yes, the story of a guy getting involved with a tribe, falls in love with the chief's daughter and ultimately rises up to overthrow the oppressors has been told many times over. But everything but that basic story premise is original in the Avatar movies, and of the highest queality at that.
It’s kinda depressing that at this stage in media saturation even though I’m genuinely excited that X-men has a successful 2D animated show in 2024 and with all the positive buzz it’s getting I can’t wait to watch it even still there’s a part of me that’s like “ughhh, more stuff to watch” and it’ll probably still be a few months before I can force myself to actually sit down and watch it. I felt the same way with Invincible season 2, why’s it getting to the point where even good tv is starting to feel like a chore? Is this what being old feels like?
Hedonistic adaptation. The more you become used to something, the less it starts to mean to you (even if the experience itself is inherently amazing and special).
One old guy to the next...Don't wait. I agree about other cool shows seeming like a chore, too. This made me feel like a kid at Christmas, though -I just had to open the next episode.
Prepare for a life of watching NCIS and Blue Bloods on repeat. And I do mean repeat as your dementia will force you to forget the past 40 minutes of the episode you just watched, and much to your family’s dismay, you start the episode all over again.
It's not like you're being forced to watch any of those shows. You *choose* to do that, so I don't understand how it's a chore when you actively make a *choice* to watch a show. You don't *have* to watch any of those shows if you don't want to, and if you do then you can watch them on your own timetable. It's really not that deep or serious.
@@onyx081 I guess that’s what I’m saying is that at this point I almost feel like to participate in culture there is the expectation to have at least a passing familiarity with all current media to the degree that watching or at least researching everything that comes out isn’t optional
The problem with the content landscape being saturated with lazy uninspired derivative works is not and was never the part where there's a bunch of derivative works; it's that they're lazy and uninspired. Original content can also be lazy and uninspired, and it's still bad when that happens. Some of the greatest works of all time are incredibly derivative, and that's not a bad thing. The problem that leads to the misattribution is _mostly_ just that it's much, _much_ harder to make a lazy and uninspired bit of original fiction, since the originality necessitates at least some amount of effort and or talent so it's rare that people are willing to go that far and no further. Derivative works, meanwhile, have such a low barrier for entry they can literally be drafted by chatGPT.
You and I had a very similar thought, followed by pleasant surprise, when finally watching the show. Episode 5 is just one of the best tv episodes I have watched, not just in the realm of animation. The show transcends it's source material to write out very interesting storyline based on comic book ones. So happy to have a show like this that cares about telling a good story and not just fluffing fan service.
There is no such thing as originality in art. Every artist whether they are a painter, writer or musician is standing on the shoulders of their influences. The only people who are concerned with the idea of complete originality are non artists, because capitalism has tricked them into thinking these things can be owned. Writers use tropes and story circles, us musicians use music theory, and even the artists of X-Men 97 used the artistic style of Jim Lee. Even the superhero genre is just Gilgamesh and Hercules for a new audience. Or in the case of music you can watch the axis of awesome break that illusion. As a side note this is also why all these lawsuits over songs sounding similar is so destructive. You will notice it is the non musicians (such as Townsends daughter) suing people like Ed Sheeran as if they somehow own the minor scale.
Sometimes when people tell me remakes and reboots are inherently worse, I like to remember that many Millenials and older liked a Richard Pryor comedy called, "Brewsters Millions." A story that has been adapted 13 some odd times over the course of 100 years.
By eight mins in im alrdy thinkin of how countless stories are rly just retellin the heroes journey from the epic of gilgamesh... Prty much "the first story" for a lot of europeans anyways and many of those colonised by such in many places; but also for many other regions beyond there in afro-eurasia
I've always said that there's nothing inherently wrong with adaptations, sequels, prequels, remakes, reboots, and revivals on principle. countless incredible films have been and will continue to be made that are one or more of these. The key is *why* you are doing it, and *what are you trying to say* with it? I don't hate Disney Live-Action Remakes because they're remakes, I hate them because more often than not they're trying to "fix" things that weren't broken thus missing what made the original special and corporate would clearly rather retread old ground not realizing that they used to have a better way of doing that historically by just rereleasing the originals periodically. Meanwhile the remake of The Fly is one of my favorite movies because not only was the technology able to bring the fantastic vision to life better, but it also turns the material into both a uniquely tragic love story AND an uncompromising allegory for how a terminal illness (or even plain aging) can deteriorate someone. If you go into it with the right inspiration and a sincere passion for the material, it shouldn't matter how "original" it is.
I hear you, but I also think that a lot of people kinda don't realize that remakes, reboots and re-imaginings have always been a huge part of movies, tv, music and art in general. Iteration. It's always been the core of not just art but the human experience. And while it does seem like the biggest movies and TV shows are currently a part of some series or existing IP, in truth there are new things being made. New movies, new everything. People just don't talk about that stuff as much because they don't know about it yet. If that stuff is good then it will join the pool that we all pull from to iterate. If not, then like Wolverine: Origins, it joins the dead pool of failed ideas that we learn from by trying to avoid the same failures. Edit: Oh you got there. Okay.
So to dumb it down for you what he’s saying is he thought it was going to be ass because it’s a re adaptation/revival but instead it was the same but not at all and was like a full blast of fent every episode because Xmen 97 was and is amazing more to come 😭
So here’s my wacky two cents To the people complaining that “Sten Lee didn’t create a WOKE X-Men” well here the thing he created the comic book but it was bland and he didn’t know what to do with them. It also had lackluster sales Here comes Chris Claremont he put Storm in and started writing then the book started flying off the shelves. Why? Because the characters were relatable to the reader like Peter Parker was relatable to straight men in high school pining for the girl he likes. What Marvel comic books has over DC, comic books is that their characters are way relatable compared to characters like Batman, Superman or wonder, By the way Doctor Strange was canceled multiples times as was Thor and just in case people think they only did it to miss Marvel/Captain Marvel Carol, Danvers Night
As a die hard X-Men who was repeatedly let down by everything Marvel did to this team in the wake of Singer, I had high hopes the minute it was announced and this is exactly the X-Men I've been missing for decades. I remember the old show like some goofy old friend who told good stories with a lot of heart. Seeing '97 was like reuniting with that friend, finding him grown up with his immature tendencies ironed out, but in all the ways it counts, it's the same friend I remembered. Beau DeMayo is the best X-Men fan since Chris Claremont.
Ok, this great as per usual video went to many places (for good reasons I should add) but yes, we need great works of storytelling, ideally as new as possible, but I for one will take something that loses in originality if it's really that good. As for "Xmen '97", I will say that it's one of the best things MCU-related in a while. I'm in the "finding or trying to find something to enjoy in most post-Endgame!MCU" camp, but "Xmen '97" really grew up in those 30 years! In any case, keep up the great work and take care!
At this point I don't actually care that much about how original or derivative a piece of media is, I just want it to feel fresh and interesting. So much stuff feels stale these days.
I heard it said when "300" came out the adapting a graphic novel is different from making a film using a superhero from an established IP. You don't make "the" Superman movie. You can only make "a" Superman movie. Every reboot or reimagining is equally valid, and "original" in its own way.
People wanting Jubilee dead because “it’s more realistic “ also think Batman can beat all the odds and still being able to walk again after his back being broken by pain and fight at peak form They also believe in the Lazarus pit 😂 Whatever
You know, I was ready to dunk on you, but as I was watching your video, it reminded me, "Oh wait... I thought the exact same thing," lol. And you know what, I betchu a ton of those "haters" commenting on your old video did the same thing, they just didn't have to put their opinion out there on a video for people to see years later. I remember totally thinking to myself, as a older Millennial myself who actually grew up with the original X-Men TAS and loved that series, "Oh great, another misguided attempt from Marvel to try to appeal to Millennials like me (because the MCU was totally aimed at "90's" kids grown up, and not actual kids at the time) instead of trying to build a fanbase with the younger generation who have been starved for entertainment aimed towards them instead of being coopted by adults." But then the series came out, and while yes, the show is targeted primarily towards people my age group, good writing is good writing. And that transcends age. People of all ages, young kids and old adults can enjoy good writing, and in that regards, '97 succeeded. Which is really what all shows/movies should do first. Focus on telling good stories. Good characters. It's not "quipy" dialogue or CGI fight scenes that made people fall in love with the original MCU movies. It was the writing and characters. Do that first and everything else will fall into place.
It kinda makes me sad that something created 60 years ago as an allegory for the civil rights movement is still so poignant and reflective of our world today.
All the people screaming about it are just mad it's forcing them to think about the X-Men franchise with an adult mindset without the obvious narratives flying over their heads because they only ever interacted with it as 10 year olds. It's still the same at its core, and that's great.
I had heard from Overly Sarcastic Production that the Arthurian poets were essentially fanfiction writers. With the characters Gawain, Lancelot, and the third one I can't be fucked to remember, being OCs of a different poet and being tacked on with a new story.
Fox bought the X men and fantastic franchises only to make fun of the material play favorites with one character and stomp on most others(especially the characters like Cyclops, Storm and Darwin) give them absolutely no say on anything that happened in the films and try everything in their power to keep out of Marvel’s hands. I felt it when cyclops said “what would you prefer black leather”
I mean, it's a wonderful feeling to expect something to be awful but it to come out fantastic. When you realize you're wrong but you're happy about it.
I've always disliked the narrative that we rely more on reboots and retelling and adaptation now. This has always been the case. Everything is a remix of stuff that came before. Godfather was an adaptation. Scarface was a remake / reimagining. Classic Disney was all adaptation. Every 'original' world like Star Wars and Terminator were riffing on stuff that came before. Whether something is good has nothing to do with whether it is a remake, reboot, reimagining, pastiche, or adaptation, because *everything* is one of those to some extent.
The problem was not the idea of reboots themselves, the problem was so many series in the past decade and a half relied on their brand name to get their sales ignoring the terrible writing. I feel no better example to pull from the fairly oddparents, which got two reboots back to back (for some reason…). Under that pretense you’d expect them to be equally terrible, but no the latest one a new wish is literally the best that’s come out of the franchise is the past 15 years or so. Meanwhile the one before was the real deal for terrible reboots, so yea.
I was just like you i originally dismissed this masterpiece as marvel just a cashgrab banking on nostalgia and wasnt gonna watch it. But luckily i saw the seen with cyclops and and the x-cutioner on twitter and it motivated me to give this show a shot. I think the lesson i learned is that while no piece of media "deserves" to be given a chance if the premise doesnt immediately interest you. I shouldnt be so quick to dismiss a show as just a cashgrab before even the first episode comes out because who knows it might become one of your favorite show ever.
I decided to watch the entire 90s series in preparation for ‘97, and I just so happened to catch up right after the release of episode 5. Lemme tell ya, the gut punch I got from that was absolutely unparalleled. The decision to put that right after a damn MOJO EPISODE certainly had an effect too.
I grew up with my uncles who idolised Lee Majors talking about The Fall Guy all the time, so even though I'd never seen it, I knew about the property pretty well. Come to find out that in general it's mostly forgotten.
I had zero interest in 97. just thought it was more nostalgia milking. then I watched the first episode and very happy to be wrong. my 9 year old daughter watches it with me and now Rogue is her new favorite character
I should say while Kelvinverse reboot brought back a lot of the same storylines... the best of the bunch was Star Trek Beyond where kind of threw out the formula they'd been operating off of. Reboots and retellings are at their most successful when they get creative with it and mess with the formula.
Call me a sap, but this show had me tearing up multiple times out of sheer joy. I'm 44, and this brought me back to middle school. I can't thank them enough for making this.
Personally, I view a work through its quality, not through what it is. Just because something is a remake, a reboot, an adaptation or a sequel, doesn't automatically make something good or bad. It simply exists, and the quality of the work is what changes it into being something good or something bad. Like, sure if an adaptation of something I've read is announced, I might be a little curious, but if I then see the trailer and see that it's not a good adaptation, I won't watch it. Not because it's an adaptation, but because it's a /bad/ adaptation. View the work on its' own terms.
cant blame him, that long ago thinking some good classic X-Men stuff would happen was scarce and grim. thank goodness that we actually got X-blessed : D
An interesting thought occurred to me when you made your point about the film landscape not being improved by getting rid of adaptations. Since before even action comics issue one released, the general public has thought of comic books as "kids stuff", and has written them off entirely. But comics, especially superhero comics, have always been full of immensely moving stories. Hell, there are even people who would go so far as to suggest that comics are the American equivalent to Greek mythology, heroes like superman and batman being our Hercules and Odysseus. And until very recently, no one who didn't read comics believed that they were anything more than kids stuff. Most people thought batman was as goofy as the Adam west version until the Tim Burton film came out. And because of the almost hundred years of writting off these stories, even people who enjoy them still subconsciously seem to write them off as a passing fad. In 1991, sandman issue 19 won the world fantasy award, beating out more traditional novels and short stories, and instead of admiting that this was a new form new form of literature just coming out of its infancy, they introduced a comic book only division so they could still pretend that these stories were lesser. Even today, people have been prophesying an immenent "superhero fatigue" since the first avengers movie came out, as if these weren't good stories (not every superhero flick is good, obviously, I'm just speaking broadly) but merely a fad that will pass and then we can get back to "real cinema". And yet, everytime it seems that might just be the case, something new (at least to the general public) and amazing, just like x men 97, comes along and grabs our attention yet again, like the oddessy following the Iliad. All this to say that while we should still have unique and original films, there is nothing wrong with bringing an amazing and moving story to a whole new audience, and if there were, they wouldn't be so popular. After all, let's not pretend that the first thing Hollywood does everytime film technology advances isn't make another adaptation of robin hood.
I was worried about that too. I feel like xmen needed it less than Spider-Man at least and left of at a decent place, but despite that and ignoring magneto x rogue I think it was great.
Im only a fan of the X-Men comics so I had 0 expectations. This show blew me away, it had no business being THAT GOOD. They got the spirit of Claremont’s X-Men characters exactly right.
Yea is it me or is this guy just rambling about everything except the actual subject matter? I don’t think he even read the comics or watch the original TAS series, just regurgitate source material here and there for lip service then goes on about media, social politics, etc
X-Men 97 is so much overrated. Only Scott and Jean have time to really shine. Storm was a huge promise of Demayo and she's just powers showoff. Wolverine being humiliated the whole show is not acceptable. He burned at least 5/6 years of story in 10 episodes! Just because is so much better than all of the trash Disney/MCU doesn't mean is that good.
Let's just be completely transparent, even fans who were on board and excited for a simple continuation were totally surprised by just how good X-Men 97 was. This is the type of thing that makes you go "oh...yeah, this is why I'm a comic book fan."
I loved listenin' to x-position! And personally, like most of my future reactions I give a strong, resounding "huh!" I didn't really care for X-Men '97. But after the trailers landed, the first episode aired, I just gave it a try. Many still don't care for it since the old show did just fine. Others have had it. But time heals old wounds. Or we just move on!
I think of it this way: Sometimes, you get trash like _The Mummy_ (2017), _Oldboy_ (2013), _Psycho_ (1998)_ or _Ben-Hur_ (2016); other times, you get _The Mummy_ (1999), _The Fly_ (1986), _The Thing_ (1982), or _The Ten Commandments_ (1956). Hell, that last one was done by *the same director,* because he thought his work could be improved. I understand the concern towards remakes being lazy cash grabs meant to invoke nostalgia, but there's always the chance that the people involved want to see that property given justice, instead of being a cynical marketing ploy. So yeah, while it's possible that you could be hit with a _Godzilla_ (1998) or the _Godzilla_ anime trilogy (2017-18)… you could also be blasted by a _Shin Godzilla_ (2016) or _Godzilla Minus One_ (2023). I just think that everyone should temper their expectations until they actually get the chance to know more about that remake-or preferably, actually watch it.
Have you seen the original _The Thing_ or _The Fly?_ Or the original 1932 _The Mummy_ or its first 1959 remake? They're overall pretty bland and boring b-movies imho, so there was lots of room for improvement on what's otherwise a good story idea. Well, they're still pretty fun in their own b-movie way, but you know what I mean. Slow pacing, filler dialogue unrelated to the plot, shoddy vfx, etc. In the end they're dime-a-dozen creature features made to make out to in the drive-in movie theatre. _Ben Hur, Psycho_ and _Oldboy_ are classics in their own right. It's really hard to improve on an idea that's already well executed and memorable to the point it has become iconic. These are the kind of movies used as examples in film school. It's not impossible to remake a real classic like that but the bar is already set high, and it's gonna be hard to escape nostalgia for the original. Those expectations aren't entirely unreasonable, nor should failure to meet them come as a surprise really. I mean the track record thus far isn't great either. On the other hand, it's a real nice feeling to expect little to nothing and be proven wrong. It doesn't happen a lot but still. I think it's more about creativity and artistic vision anyway. Take the Disney remakes. None of them have even come close to becoming cultural icons like the originals. They're utterly forgettable. Meanwhile Guillermo del Toro made the best _Pinocchio_ since the Disney animation because he ignored every interpretation that came before, and made the story his own. So yea, I agree, with the caveat that not all remakes start off on equal footing.
One thing people don’t bring up is how much more censorship there was in the 90’s. In some cases I’d be one of those fanboys but as someone who introduced to the X-men from the single episode Pryde of the X-men* *this was the one where Wolverine had an Australian accent.
You forgot DUNE as an inspiration to Star Wars, but okay... Nice video, dude, fr. It has a really good point, and made me realize I must watch X-Men '97 as soon as possible
In other words, you are a fan of the shitty idea of Wolverine being leader of the X-men and you had to accept that X-men 97 was always an adaptation that better respected the comics that gave rise to the franchise.
It’s funny that the ppl talking the most about this show weren’t even conceived if you are post 1996 just say you like it or you don’t because unless you’ve painstakingly went through decades worth of source material and have a informed critique like😅 what are we talking about here
![เขามัทรี - เอ็กซ์ ศุภกฤต - จอนนี่มิวสิค [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AS9ufKuQIVs/mqdefault.jpg)
guys really I promise the Over the Hedge video is coming this month please you gotta believe me plea
anyway here that PLUG: www.patreon.com/pillarofgarbage
You know that the Fall Guy movie gut it's concept from the Japanese movie 1% Warrior ,(1 percenter) right?
That comment from the Cyclops stan nearly triggered me into ranting to you about how as much as 97' did an amazing job actually making Scott a full fledged character, that still doesn't make Wolverine and the Xmen any less of a show... that show beats out those movies and Evolution with little effort. Hell Scott from that show has more in common with 97 Scott than 92' Scott.
Well damn, I guess I still ended up triggered enough for a small rant anyway...
In regards to you thinking that X-Men is a "Racism Allegory":
th-cam.com/video/KaJJI-YaPnY/w-d-xo.html
@@ellugerdelacruz2555 in regards to your linking me a video that starts with a 'waifu handbook' sponsorship (which, lmao): th-cam.com/video/1gSvQcd2X-c/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Z64QuVsZGgLkGH3j
@PillarofGarbage
That was pretty quick, did you actually watch the full video?
The biggest problem with X-Men 97 is that it sets an impossibly high bar for Disney when they eventually try an introduce their own version into the MCU.
And I say to that. I don't care. X-Men are best animated. Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes is the best Avengers version, Spectacular Spider-Man is the (IMO) the best Spidey version. Live action can never match the imagination of the comics, but animation is the next best thing. Live action can just do it's best to not suck. Something I don't have confidence Disney can do any longer without a major internal overhaul.
Best hilarious jab at Fox's X-Men live action:
Cyclops: "Almost forgot!" *gives X-Men uniform to his son*
Cable: "Am I going to war or a circus?"
Cyclops: "What did you expect? Black leather?"
Nearly stood up and applauded.
It was terrible pandering
@@nalday2534 what?
@@theamazingspooderman2697 what part of that was hard to understand
@nalday2534 hey man even bad opinions are valid
This is one of those things where being wrong doesn't matter, because either way we got a great X men show and that leaves people with something to be happy about. I had VERY low expectations for this going in, and I am so glad I was wrong myself. Im sure all of us are.
Edit: Personally I think of this as more than a continuation of the original cartoon, I see it as a love letter from people that watched the show, loved it, and was so passionate about it that they wanted to see these stories and characters they loved taken to their utmost potential and depth.
This is what we should aspire to when it comes to sequels/adaptations etc. It doesn't matter if they're straight continuations or not, what matters is that they're made by people with a passion for the source material and something interesting to say or do with it.
Honestly, that second paragraph is how I think *every studio* should approach continuations/revivals. Have people that grew up with and hold a special place in their heart for the original.
Like, there are so many talented artists who were *inspired directly by certain series* to even begin their craft. Give those talents the chance to uphold the memory of the thing to start it all for them, and you almost guarantee success
@@Kurotama11 yeah that’s exactly how I feel. Passion should be the driving force behind Hollywood, and honestly art in general, like it has been so many times before. The way I see it, there are always going to be people that love and feel so passionate about something that they lose sleep over it, they dream of it, it consumes their every thought like some Oppenheimer type shit, and that’s the kind of people we need to be making this stuff.
Yes! The brief moments when they had to put backstory in the dialogue was like (yeah, we know to people who watched the original) a quick rundown to a new audience to catch them up. It didn’t alienate either audience of adults who watched this as a kid or younger ones who never seen it before. It’s for everyone. A universal story of being “other” and hated for it as well as what it means to be a family, love, and the pain of grief. As an adult who watched this as a child, people who became parents feel the weight of this show on a deeper level with the development of Scott, Jean, Madelyn, and Cable’s relationship. What they managed to do in 10 episodes was tremendous and I can’t wait until season Two and beyond!
It's a proper continuation of the 92 show.
I never thought cyclops was cool Until this show. I have been sleeping on him
The show made him cool.
@@Seek1878he’s been cool for more than 50 years. But he’s definitely had ups AND downs.
@@crispyguilt1Fox xmen did him dirty.
Same. I was never a fan of him in the original animated series, and he was practically a nothing in the original x-men movies and that kind of stuck with me. He just seemed like the typical one-dimensional boy scout character with no subtlety or nuance. The first episode did more to make him interesting than the last 30 years of TV and movies.
You have been sleeping *on* him?
I'm extremely jealous.
Scott is hot AF 😂
The poet Robert Duncan liked the make the case that, in the end, there is no such thing as “originality,” at least not in any distinct, independent, somehow separated from influences sense. That, instead, originality always stems from the unique confluence of various influences upon a creative, and how said creative responds to and uses them. And that non-originality stems from either resisting the inherent uniqueness of that confluence, or in denying the sheer fact of confluence.
To any fans who are not watching X-Men 97 i say good riddance! Tired of salty fanboys and fangirls getting triggered over trivial issues. Because the reality is that the mutant narrative has always been about racism. Along with that, they have always dealt with all types of bigotry. So, I fail to see why some "fans" are upset with the context of the series.
They aren't even fans. They are rage-baiters who know angry videos drives traffic and make thousands of dollars from TH-cam feeding off angry (usually white) men.
They jumped ship when realised the show is universally acclaimed and faced strong pushback which would've caused drop in views and therefore ad revenue
Because they've fallen for the anti-woke grift propagated by far-right organizations and sympathizers.
I'm all for the racial allegory, but the writing on this cartoon is still pretty terrible.
@@Borodin410Guess you’re in the minority then
@@Borodin410everyone’s welcome to having a bad take.
In this series you’re getting the gravity of “Great Replacement Theory” and “The Final Solution “ preached by Bastion. This is the best way to show the horrors of both.
In trying to fight the perception that humans are being replaced, he strips everything that makes humans human turning them into the very monsters he fears mutants to be. It's chef's kiss.
As a long time X-Men fan and fan of the original series even though I wasn't born when the show was around, but HOLY S*** THIS SERIES IS EX-CEPTIONAL. No joke this series is so masterfully well written, phenomenal animation and truly compelling characters and deep dark themes that puts the Fox X-Men movies to shame. Truthfully this series is some of the *BEST MARVEL MEDIA WEVE SEEN EVER SINCE ENDGAME* (except GOTG3 and Loki)!
Compared to how phenomenal this series is the Fox movies seemed like amateur student films with such a bare-bone understanding of how truly incredible and insane the X-Men stories can be when you truly hire people that care about these amazing characters.
"No way home" got me good... blindsided me with several gutpunches.
I'm all for the racial allegory, but the writing on this cartoon is still pretty terrible.
@@Borodin410that didn’t even make sense as a response to the comment. Now I know you’re a bot.
@crispyguilt1 probably a fan of the Quartering.
Dude said it sucked before it even came out.
@@crispyguilt1He most likely copy pasted his reply from another reply section
X-men'97 is a great example of how everyone tends to miss the point about these things (by which I mean the wave of "anti-adaptation hate.") It's not that you hate adaptations because "they are unoriginal" and "hollywood is out of ideas", it's that these things just haven't been given the love and care needed to make something good.
Or the more obvious one: You didn't understand the original work anyway, and the adaptation pulling from it, sometimes even recreating story bits beat by beat, showing it full force and making you think with your now adult brain rubs you the wrong way, so you created some delusions about how "tainted" it is now when it's just forcing you to actually look at the IP you only looked at as a 12 year old one time with an adult mindset.
I do think that the spectrum you mention is still dealing with the weight of an industry that simply does not feel comfortable touching anything without an established brand attached-even if the story itself is technically “original”
Xmen 97 is pretty good. I feel like a kid watching it and surprised they brought things from the comics that i thought would never be adapted.
Everything is based on something.
Even the few ideas i am working on are based on ideas that are based on obscured historical documents.
I can't believe they found a streamlined but only slightly less confusing way to adapt Bastion.
I think when people complain about the overreliance on existing IP, they're largely complaining about the overreliance on already (arguably) overutilized IP.
Based on a book or not, there's only been one Oppenheimer movie. And probably really only one Barbie movie, setting aside direct-to-video animated pap made with no higher artistic ambition than selling cheap plastic dolls.
There have been ten Batman movies. Eight Spider-Man movies. 33 MCU movies. (In 16 years. There haven't even been that many Bond movies. Since the 60s).
Start lumping these together into bigger categories like DC and Marvel and the numbers become mind-boggling.
A lot of this is more trends than necessarily overusing IP I’d say….atleast once you get into the more general categorizations like “MCU movies” or “Comic Book Movies”
We just happen to have been in a phase where super hero adaptations were the popular thing….and Marvel just so happened to hit a goldmine by perfecting the idea of a cinematic *universe* . This is the only thing that allowed for such a heavy influx of content all heavily related to each other.
you seem to struggle with accepting that there are good marvel movies and bad marvel movies. the good ones aren't good because they're marvel movies, and the bad ones aren't bad because they're marvel movies. it's the individual qualities of the films that determines their worthiness.
Member berries
Ther are lots of barbie movies .
like, in terms of adaptations, the X-Men have a LOT of unexplored material.
Just gonna say it - best Marvel cartoon since Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes. Which is a high bar, but to be fair the original X-Men cartoon is one of the few Marvel shows to clear that bar.
I agree
Originality matters far less than most people think.
what is originality the word is used a lot but does anyone know what it means ?
there are hundreds of original ideas out there (the movie if as an example ) they just don't have the massive fan bases old franchises have
All films, books..are at the end based or inspired in another that came before, and the first fictional story probably was based on reality, nothing is 100% original, real life, other books etc, life experiences are the bone of the stories
I mean, the infamous Red Wedding was based in a real event, the Faith of the Seven is fictional Christianity and Pluto's (dog) name seems to be in honor of the discovery of Pluto (ex-planet) whose name comes from Pluto (roman God) that is Hades (Greek god) etc etc
@@bouel2709thats just a bad statement. What is easy rider (1969) based on?
@@SouthizedWell, that’s easy. It’s based on the communal hippie subculture that was prevalent in 1960’s America. It was also a spiritual successor to Hopper and Fonda’s last collaborative film before it, The Trip. Peter Fonda has also explicitly said it’s based off Westerns, and is supposed to be a modern take on the genre.
@@patonebloont8824 sorry i misread your statement i thought i read that no film can he made without a book story that came before. Buy one film that is 100% real life is sound of freedom
Shakespeare only wrote two, maybe three wholly "original" plays (not directly adapted from historical sources or existing stories), The Tempest, Love's Labour's Lost, and A Midsummer Night's Dream. The idea that originality can only be expressed through new IPs is a modern expectation set by how absolutely awful and generic most Hollywood films have become. Nobody rags on The Godfather or Jaws for being book adaptations. The issue is with motivation and execution. The Disney live action remakes of animated classics is a perfect example of film as pure commodity, designed just to hit the beats you remember, adjust it to modern sensibilities, and make sure there's something in it to attract every demographic. Great stories don't have to come from a wholly novel idea, they just have to have a reason to exist beyond making gobs of money and good execution. X-Men '97 is a great example of this approach.
Shakespeare is a great example because there’s also been so many stagings of his plays. Thousands of actors have played Hamlet, yet no one bats an eye or questions the prestige of that role. Meanwhile, we can’t fathom recasting RDJ as Iron Man.
Also as a shakespeare nerd this is such a good analogy because if anybody actually claimed there were only 3 original shakespeare plays, that would be a WILD claim, like absolutely batshit insane, and it's the same here
The finale of X-Men 97 Season 1 was pure unadulterated awesomeness and I look forward for Season 2.
With Apocalypse as the new main antagonist and En Sabah Nur as an unlikely ally of the time displaced X-Men!
Facts 💯
That would be a neat trick, having Apocalypse oppose himself.
Actually more likely Kang is the one controlling everything.
I have two thoughts on this. One is that they'll adapt Rise of Apocalypse (and possibly Fantastic Four #19) in a fairly straightforward manner, and the X-men will leave the same way the FF left. The other is that they might end up messing with events and cause the cartoon's version of Age of Apocalypse. This was my peak X-Men period, and I kinda stopped early in the Bastion story arc.
My favorite are the crybabies who cry about the woke X-men being woke. 😂
Are they really X-Men fans? Have they ever seen the movies, watched the cartoons, or read the comics? Do they know what the word "woke" means?
@@kittycatmeowmeow963they probably watched the series or even read the comics, they just decided to not acknowledge or wanting to go more deeper what the X-Men wanting to say they just saw heroes fighting bad guys and when reality hits that x men is trying to tell something they don't like it, they aren't really fans they're just readers
@@kittycatmeowmeow963 "If everything is woke... then nothing is."
-- Some guy in spandex tights.
calling something woke and being angry makes them feel like big strong men lol
theres not much "woke" about this show though.
Man, I feel a little bad for the Fall Guy because I loved the hell out of the movie, and it was so very clearly a love letter from a director who worked his way up from being a stunt man himself and so much more than just a reboot of the classic series. But at the same time a love letter to that classic series for being an inspiration for so many stunt workers themselves.
Fantastic cheeky 4th wall meta commentary, tons of excellent set up and payoff gags, and just charming characters all around. And an honestly sweet emotional core.
At the end, he listed all the X-Men he talked about: Nightcrawler, Rogue, Wolverine...
But he didn't say the card guy's name. Did he not remember it?
I hope he’d remember it, those were literally Gambit’s last words. ‘The name’s Gambit, mon ami. Remember it’.
Intellectual humility. Impressive. Rare.
I think that the trick was, that X-men 97 was a direct continuation instead of an adaption or reboot. which means that they could to later season storylines in season 1 instead of bogging things down with origin stories and starter villains.
What a phenomenal season of Marvel Television! This season and finale were absolutely incredible, and it really had it all! Great writing, jaw-dropping animation, masterful music, amazing voice acting performances, brilliant pacing, respect for the original source material/90s animated series, and lots of fun/really cool Cameos and Easter Eggs for the fans to enjoy! I'm so excited/hyped for Season 2 and will be counting down the days! This finale and the whole season get a 100/10 from me!
this video got so meta and i loved it man, the overarching analysis of how art imitates and is constantly commenting on itself. so true! feels like this season managed to manage a meta commentary about the x-men and what they originally stood for and made it authentic while imbuing it with a new soul. it’s like art is just hats on hats on hats
So, PoG. Now that we've established that you're actually clairvoyant, what did you think of the second season of Andor?
it was pretty good but all the full frontal felt a little gratuitous
It came out?!
@@arbitariousNope, joke is that he can predict the future so he's making a joking prediction
@@PillarofGarbage And that shaved Wookiee wearing aviators and angrily declaring all the historical interpretations wrong in Luthen's shop was definitely based on TCD - even I thought it was a bit much.
All the people who said this would be another woke, bad show really shut up after this. It's clear that these people care more about pointing this they disagree with and not what is wrong with the show. It feels as if they assume every piece of media will be bad so they call it woke beforehand so after they can say AHAH I was right.
Well if you actually seen the vast majority of bad shows or films you can understand why they would be skeptical but I guess you are too close minded to actually listen or respect others opinions. Believe or not not everyone who complains are racist!
hindsight is always 20/20
Despite my gripes with the finale of the season, the overall show is fuckn awesome and much better than anything I would have hoped from marvel studios or even from a continuation of the og show. '97 sweep, essentially.
and to your more general point about adaptation, we overestimate how original various stories are. Every story is a mosiac of inspirations and retellings of other stories, and it would do us well to remember that.
What are your gripes about the finale
the finale is underwhelming after the great setup in episodes 8-9
Love x men 97, hope they bought back spiderman 98
A single clip of Scott Summers in a warehouse made me aware/interested in X-Men again. Thank you instagram reels🙏The way they are adapting things make me excited for Age of Apocalypse, but also to Feral Wolverine, Onslaught and Death of The X-Men too, which are all story arcs I didn’t originally enjoy
It does do an awesome job linking a series of disparate comic stories into a more cohesive narrative through-line, but I do think this video massively overstates how much X-Men '97 tells a different story form the comics. Despite being a video about how originality is made-up and nothing is truly original, and that's more about vibes than anything, it kinda tries to justify all the ways that '97 is "original", when really it is mostly *just* vibes. '97 is an incredibly faithful adaptation of X-Men comics. I would argue that's WHY it's so good. X-Men comics are amazing! It's just that nobody reads comics and that's a shame.
Next The Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes Season 3 Maybe It Can Be Called The Avengers: Beyond Earth’s Mightiest Heroes Because Marvel Calls The Avengers That Name
I heard once only 12 notes is used to make most of music and I feel that how much creative works are nothing is in a vacuum what makes something creative is how they're use
1:50 - I think that most people complaining about "too many reboots" don't actually have a full understanding of film/TV history; it's always been dependent on remakes. It's just a real lazy way to say "I don't like that they're remaking this, they should make stuff that *I* want them to make"
3:35 this is exactly what the TAS did too. in 2024, they did FATAL ATTRACTION with rouge instead of colossus, in 92l they did DAYS OF FUTURE PAST with bishop instead of kitty. it lives up to TAS's legacy of adapting the comics.
"how about becoming my paypig" honestly made me laugh hard and actually consider it for a sec
Feels like this guy just took 12 minutes to say a reboot showed him he needs to reboot his ideas on how he judges media
Its not a reboot, its a continutiation
@@marocat4749it’s both
To your credit, there was a basis for your statements. In regards to originality vs adaption, it’s always gonna be debatable with merits on both sides. In the case of the X-Men, they are flexible enough where they can handle both rather well, so long as you keep the core of the characters.
I always felt that the criticism leveled against the Avatar movies, that they are just a retelling of Pocahontas, but in blue, was particularly weak. Yes, the story of a guy getting involved with a tribe, falls in love with the chief's daughter and ultimately rises up to overthrow the oppressors has been told many times over. But everything but that basic story premise is original in the Avatar movies, and of the highest queality at that.
It’s kinda depressing that at this stage in media saturation even though I’m genuinely excited that X-men has a successful 2D animated show in 2024 and with all the positive buzz it’s getting I can’t wait to watch it even still there’s a part of me that’s like “ughhh, more stuff to watch” and it’ll probably still be a few months before I can force myself to actually sit down and watch it. I felt the same way with Invincible season 2, why’s it getting to the point where even good tv is starting to feel like a chore? Is this what being old feels like?
Hedonistic adaptation. The more you become used to something, the less it starts to mean to you (even if the experience itself is inherently amazing and special).
One old guy to the next...Don't wait. I agree about other cool shows seeming like a chore, too. This made me feel like a kid at Christmas, though -I just had to open the next episode.
Prepare for a life of watching NCIS and Blue Bloods on repeat. And I do mean repeat as your dementia will force you to forget the past 40 minutes of the episode you just watched, and much to your family’s dismay, you start the episode all over again.
It's not like you're being forced to watch any of those shows. You *choose* to do that, so I don't understand how it's a chore when you actively make a *choice* to watch a show. You don't *have* to watch any of those shows if you don't want to, and if you do then you can watch them on your own timetable. It's really not that deep or serious.
@@onyx081 I guess that’s what I’m saying is that at this point I almost feel like to participate in culture there is the expectation to have at least a passing familiarity with all current media to the degree that watching or at least researching everything that comes out isn’t optional
The problem with the content landscape being saturated with lazy uninspired derivative works is not and was never the part where there's a bunch of derivative works; it's that they're lazy and uninspired. Original content can also be lazy and uninspired, and it's still bad when that happens. Some of the greatest works of all time are incredibly derivative, and that's not a bad thing.
The problem that leads to the misattribution is _mostly_ just that it's much, _much_ harder to make a lazy and uninspired bit of original fiction, since the originality necessitates at least some amount of effort and or talent so it's rare that people are willing to go that far and no further. Derivative works, meanwhile, have such a low barrier for entry they can literally be drafted by chatGPT.
You and I had a very similar thought, followed by pleasant surprise, when finally watching the show. Episode 5 is just one of the best tv episodes I have watched, not just in the realm of animation. The show transcends it's source material to write out very interesting storyline based on comic book ones. So happy to have a show like this that cares about telling a good story and not just fluffing fan service.
There is no such thing as originality in art. Every artist whether they are a painter, writer or musician is standing on the shoulders of their influences. The only people who are concerned with the idea of complete originality are non artists, because capitalism has tricked them into thinking these things can be owned. Writers use tropes and story circles, us musicians use music theory, and even the artists of X-Men 97 used the artistic style of Jim Lee. Even the superhero genre is just Gilgamesh and Hercules for a new audience. Or in the case of music you can watch the axis of awesome break that illusion. As a side note this is also why all these lawsuits over songs sounding similar is so destructive. You will notice it is the non musicians (such as Townsends daughter) suing people like Ed Sheeran as if they somehow own the minor scale.
That end credits version of the 90s show rocked!
Cal Dodd and Lenore Zann still got it as Wolverine and Rogue respectively and it fits them like a glove.
Also George Buza as Beast.
Sometimes when people tell me remakes and reboots are inherently worse, I like to remember that many Millenials and older liked a Richard Pryor comedy called, "Brewsters Millions." A story that has been adapted 13 some odd times over the course of 100 years.
By eight mins in im alrdy thinkin of how countless stories are rly just retellin the heroes journey from the epic of gilgamesh... Prty much "the first story" for a lot of europeans anyways and many of those colonised by such in many places; but also for many other regions beyond there in afro-eurasia
I've always said that there's nothing inherently wrong with adaptations, sequels, prequels, remakes, reboots, and revivals on principle. countless incredible films have been and will continue to be made that are one or more of these. The key is *why* you are doing it, and *what are you trying to say* with it?
I don't hate Disney Live-Action Remakes because they're remakes, I hate them because more often than not they're trying to "fix" things that weren't broken thus missing what made the original special and corporate would clearly rather retread old ground not realizing that they used to have a better way of doing that historically by just rereleasing the originals periodically.
Meanwhile the remake of The Fly is one of my favorite movies because not only was the technology able to bring the fantastic vision to life better, but it also turns the material into both a uniquely tragic love story AND an uncompromising allegory for how a terminal illness (or even plain aging) can deteriorate someone.
If you go into it with the right inspiration and a sincere passion for the material, it shouldn't matter how "original" it is.
I hear you, but I also think that a lot of people kinda don't realize that remakes, reboots and re-imaginings have always been a huge part of movies, tv, music and art in general.
Iteration. It's always been the core of not just art but the human experience.
And while it does seem like the biggest movies and TV shows are currently a part of some series or existing IP, in truth there are new things being made. New movies, new everything. People just don't talk about that stuff as much because they don't know about it yet. If that stuff is good then it will join the pool that we all pull from to iterate. If not, then like Wolverine: Origins, it joins the dead pool of failed ideas that we learn from by trying to avoid the same failures.
Edit: Oh you got there. Okay.
So to dumb it down for you what he’s saying is he thought it was going to be ass because it’s a re adaptation/revival but instead it was the same but not at all and was like a full blast of fent every episode because Xmen 97 was and is amazing more to come 😭
Lets just hope it stays consistent in quality because i heard the guy in charge got canned
I've heard that they did most of the writing in the next season, so it seems like we are safe for now
So here’s my wacky two cents
To the people complaining that “Sten Lee didn’t create a WOKE X-Men” well here the thing he created the comic book but it was bland and he didn’t know what to do with them. It also had lackluster sales
Here comes Chris Claremont he put Storm in and started writing then the book started flying off the shelves. Why? Because the characters were relatable to the reader like Peter Parker was relatable to straight men in high school pining for the girl he likes.
What Marvel comic books has over DC, comic books is that their characters are way relatable compared to characters like Batman, Superman or wonder,
By the way Doctor Strange was canceled multiples times as was Thor and just in case people think they only did it to miss Marvel/Captain Marvel Carol, Danvers
Night
As a die hard X-Men who was repeatedly let down by everything Marvel did to this team in the wake of Singer, I had high hopes the minute it was announced and this is exactly the X-Men I've been missing for decades.
I remember the old show like some goofy old friend who told good stories with a lot of heart. Seeing '97 was like reuniting with that friend, finding him grown up with his immature tendencies ironed out, but in all the ways it counts, it's the same friend I remembered.
Beau DeMayo is the best X-Men fan since Chris Claremont.
So excited to see you covering more stuff I’m into.
The Green Knight is actually a reboot too. Check out "Sword of the Valiant" 1984.
Ok, this great as per usual video went to many places (for good reasons I should add) but yes, we need great works of storytelling, ideally as new as possible, but I for one will take something that loses in originality if it's really that good.
As for "Xmen '97", I will say that it's one of the best things MCU-related in a while. I'm in the "finding or trying to find something to enjoy in most post-Endgame!MCU" camp, but "Xmen '97" really grew up in those 30 years!
In any case, keep up the great work and take care!
At this point I don't actually care that much about how original or derivative a piece of media is, I just want it to feel fresh and interesting. So much stuff feels stale these days.
1:13 holy shit I just realized the watcher
I heard it said when "300" came out the adapting a graphic novel is different from making a film using a superhero from an established IP. You don't make "the" Superman movie. You can only make "a" Superman movie. Every reboot or reimagining is equally valid, and "original" in its own way.
I appreciate the puns u did in the beginning of this video I found them humorous
The Fast and Furious franchise is 100% original. I wouldn't call that the antithesis of the death of cinema
People wanting Jubilee dead because “it’s more realistic “ also think Batman can beat all the odds and still being able to walk again after his back being broken by pain and fight at peak form
They also believe in the Lazarus pit
😂
Whatever
You know, I was ready to dunk on you, but as I was watching your video, it reminded me, "Oh wait... I thought the exact same thing," lol. And you know what, I betchu a ton of those "haters" commenting on your old video did the same thing, they just didn't have to put their opinion out there on a video for people to see years later. I remember totally thinking to myself, as a older Millennial myself who actually grew up with the original X-Men TAS and loved that series, "Oh great, another misguided attempt from Marvel to try to appeal to Millennials like me (because the MCU was totally aimed at "90's" kids grown up, and not actual kids at the time) instead of trying to build a fanbase with the younger generation who have been starved for entertainment aimed towards them instead of being coopted by adults." But then the series came out, and while yes, the show is targeted primarily towards people my age group, good writing is good writing. And that transcends age. People of all ages, young kids and old adults can enjoy good writing, and in that regards, '97 succeeded. Which is really what all shows/movies should do first. Focus on telling good stories. Good characters. It's not "quipy" dialogue or CGI fight scenes that made people fall in love with the original MCU movies. It was the writing and characters. Do that first and everything else will fall into place.
It kinda makes me sad that something created 60 years ago as an allegory for the civil rights movement is still so poignant and reflective of our world today.
yep :( some evils are harder to defeat than a big nasty robot
X Men really is the case where complaining about forced messaging about prejudice being newly shoved into the story just doesn't work
All the people screaming about it are just mad it's forcing them to think about the X-Men franchise with an adult mindset without the obvious narratives flying over their heads because they only ever interacted with it as 10 year olds. It's still the same at its core, and that's great.
I had heard from Overly Sarcastic Production that the Arthurian poets were essentially fanfiction writers. With the characters Gawain, Lancelot, and the third one I can't be fucked to remember, being OCs of a different poet and being tacked on with a new story.
The x men are the future of the mcu
"They are the future incarnated!"
Fox bought the X men and fantastic franchises only to make fun of the material play favorites with one character and stomp on most others(especially the characters like Cyclops, Storm and Darwin) give them absolutely no say on anything that happened in the films and try everything in their power to keep out of Marvel’s hands. I felt it when cyclops said “what would you prefer black leather”
I mean mokngirl and devil dinosaur were pretty good and also set a precident for marvel projects too
5:00 *head desk* So we actually have NOTHING original this year.
I mean, it's a wonderful feeling to expect something to be awful but it to come out fantastic. When you realize you're wrong but you're happy about it.
I've always disliked the narrative that we rely more on reboots and retelling and adaptation now. This has always been the case. Everything is a remix of stuff that came before. Godfather was an adaptation. Scarface was a remake / reimagining. Classic Disney was all adaptation. Every 'original' world like Star Wars and Terminator were riffing on stuff that came before.
Whether something is good has nothing to do with whether it is a remake, reboot, reimagining, pastiche, or adaptation, because *everything* is one of those to some extent.
The problem was not the idea of reboots themselves, the problem was so many series in the past decade and a half relied on their brand name to get their sales ignoring the terrible writing. I feel no better example to pull from the fairly oddparents, which got two reboots back to back (for some reason…). Under that pretense you’d expect them to be equally terrible, but no the latest one a new wish is literally the best that’s come out of the franchise is the past 15 years or so. Meanwhile the one before was the real deal for terrible reboots, so yea.
I was just like you i originally dismissed this masterpiece as marvel just a cashgrab banking on nostalgia and wasnt gonna watch it. But luckily i saw the seen with cyclops and and the x-cutioner on twitter and it motivated me to give this show a shot. I think the lesson i learned is that while no piece of media "deserves" to be given a chance if the premise doesnt immediately interest you. I shouldnt be so quick to dismiss a show as just a cashgrab before even the first episode comes out because who knows it might become one of your favorite show ever.
Barbie should not have done anywhere near as good as Oppenheimer
I decided to watch the entire 90s series in preparation for ‘97, and I just so happened to catch up right after the release of episode 5. Lemme tell ya, the gut punch I got from that was absolutely unparalleled. The decision to put that right after a damn MOJO EPISODE certainly had an effect too.
I grew up with my uncles who idolised Lee Majors talking about The Fall Guy all the time, so even though I'd never seen it, I knew about the property pretty well. Come to find out that in general it's mostly forgotten.
I had zero interest in 97. just thought it was more nostalgia milking. then I watched the first episode and very happy to be wrong. my 9 year old daughter watches it with me and now Rogue is her new favorite character
I should say while Kelvinverse reboot brought back a lot of the same storylines... the best of the bunch was Star Trek Beyond where kind of threw out the formula they'd been operating off of. Reboots and retellings are at their most successful when they get creative with it and mess with the formula.
Star Trek Beyond is so much fun
Call me a sap, but this show had me tearing up multiple times out of sheer joy. I'm 44, and this brought me back to middle school. I can't thank them enough for making this.
Personally, I view a work through its quality, not through what it is. Just because something is a remake, a reboot, an adaptation or a sequel, doesn't automatically make something good or bad. It simply exists, and the quality of the work is what changes it into being something good or something bad. Like, sure if an adaptation of something I've read is announced, I might be a little curious, but if I then see the trailer and see that it's not a good adaptation, I won't watch it. Not because it's an adaptation, but because it's a /bad/ adaptation. View the work on its' own terms.
Great vid! Earned my subscription.
Thoughts on making a video recounting Sabertooth's midsdeeds?
cant blame him, that long ago thinking some good classic X-Men stuff would happen was scarce and grim. thank goodness that we actually got X-blessed : D
Incredible show
An interesting thought occurred to me when you made your point about the film landscape not being improved by getting rid of adaptations. Since before even action comics issue one released, the general public has thought of comic books as "kids stuff", and has written them off entirely. But comics, especially superhero comics, have always been full of immensely moving stories. Hell, there are even people who would go so far as to suggest that comics are the American equivalent to Greek mythology, heroes like superman and batman being our Hercules and Odysseus.
And until very recently, no one who didn't read comics believed that they were anything more than kids stuff. Most people thought batman was as goofy as the Adam west version until the Tim Burton film came out. And because of the almost hundred years of writting off these stories, even people who enjoy them still subconsciously seem to write them off as a passing fad.
In 1991, sandman issue 19 won the world fantasy award, beating out more traditional novels and short stories, and instead of admiting that this was a new form new form of literature just coming out of its infancy, they introduced a comic book only division so they could still pretend that these stories were lesser.
Even today, people have been prophesying an immenent "superhero fatigue" since the first avengers movie came out, as if these weren't good stories (not every superhero flick is good, obviously, I'm just speaking broadly) but merely a fad that will pass and then we can get back to "real cinema".
And yet, everytime it seems that might just be the case, something new (at least to the general public) and amazing, just like x men 97, comes along and grabs our attention yet again, like the oddessy following the Iliad.
All this to say that while we should still have unique and original films, there is nothing wrong with bringing an amazing and moving story to a whole new audience, and if there were, they wouldn't be so popular. After all, let's not pretend that the first thing Hollywood does everytime film technology advances isn't make another adaptation of robin hood.
I was worried about that too. I feel like xmen needed it less than Spider-Man at least and left of at a decent place, but despite that and ignoring magneto x rogue I think it was great.
I watched a green night film when I was a kid. Did not even know about the new remake
Im only a fan of the X-Men comics so I had 0 expectations.
This show blew me away, it had no business being THAT GOOD. They got the spirit of Claremont’s X-Men characters exactly right.
I like how you do not talk about X men at all except the very beginning and the very end.
Yea is it me or is this guy just rambling about everything except the actual subject matter? I don’t think he even read the comics or watch the original TAS series, just regurgitate source material here and there for lip service then goes on about media, social politics, etc
X-Men 97 is so much overrated. Only Scott and Jean have time to really shine. Storm was a huge promise of Demayo and she's just powers showoff. Wolverine being humiliated the whole show is not acceptable. He burned at least 5/6 years of story in 10 episodes! Just because is so much better than all of the trash Disney/MCU doesn't mean is that good.
Let's just be completely transparent, even fans who were on board and excited for a simple continuation were totally surprised by just how good X-Men 97 was. This is the type of thing that makes you go "oh...yeah, this is why I'm a comic book fan."
I loved listenin' to x-position! And personally, like most of my future reactions I give a strong, resounding "huh!" I didn't really care for X-Men '97. But after the trailers landed, the first episode aired, I just gave it a try. Many still don't care for it since the old show did just fine. Others have had it. But time heals old wounds. Or we just move on!
I think of it this way: Sometimes, you get trash like _The Mummy_ (2017), _Oldboy_ (2013), _Psycho_ (1998)_ or _Ben-Hur_ (2016); other times, you get _The Mummy_ (1999), _The Fly_ (1986), _The Thing_ (1982), or _The Ten Commandments_ (1956). Hell, that last one was done by *the same director,* because he thought his work could be improved.
I understand the concern towards remakes being lazy cash grabs meant to invoke nostalgia, but there's always the chance that the people involved want to see that property given justice, instead of being a cynical marketing ploy. So yeah, while it's possible that you could be hit with a _Godzilla_ (1998) or the _Godzilla_ anime trilogy (2017-18)… you could also be blasted by a _Shin Godzilla_ (2016) or _Godzilla Minus One_ (2023). I just think that everyone should temper their expectations until they actually get the chance to know more about that remake-or preferably, actually watch it.
Have you seen the original _The Thing_ or _The Fly?_ Or the original 1932 _The Mummy_ or its first 1959 remake? They're overall pretty bland and boring b-movies imho, so there was lots of room for improvement on what's otherwise a good story idea. Well, they're still pretty fun in their own b-movie way, but you know what I mean. Slow pacing, filler dialogue unrelated to the plot, shoddy vfx, etc. In the end they're dime-a-dozen creature features made to make out to in the drive-in movie theatre.
_Ben Hur, Psycho_ and _Oldboy_ are classics in their own right. It's really hard to improve on an idea that's already well executed and memorable to the point it has become iconic. These are the kind of movies used as examples in film school.
It's not impossible to remake a real classic like that but the bar is already set high, and it's gonna be hard to escape nostalgia for the original. Those expectations aren't entirely unreasonable, nor should failure to meet them come as a surprise really. I mean the track record thus far isn't great either.
On the other hand, it's a real nice feeling to expect little to nothing and be proven wrong. It doesn't happen a lot but still. I think it's more about creativity and artistic vision anyway. Take the Disney remakes. None of them have even come close to becoming cultural icons like the originals. They're utterly forgettable. Meanwhile Guillermo del Toro made the best _Pinocchio_ since the Disney animation because he ignored every interpretation that came before, and made the story his own.
So yea, I agree, with the caveat that not all remakes start off on equal footing.
Love from a ComicTropes and Vaush fan!
One thing people don’t bring up is how much more censorship there was in the 90’s.
In some cases I’d be one of those fanboys but as someone who introduced to the X-men from the single episode Pryde of the X-men*
*this was the one where Wolverine had an Australian accent.
This series is the one Studio Mir show I haven't seen yet. Does it make sense if you haven't seen the 90s X-Men toon?
yes, you might be momentarily confused a couple of times, but you’re totally able to go in fresh
You forgot DUNE as an inspiration to Star Wars, but okay... Nice video, dude, fr. It has a really good point, and made me realize I must watch X-Men '97 as soon as possible
In other words, you are a fan of the shitty idea of Wolverine being leader of the X-men and you had to accept that X-men 97 was always an adaptation that better respected the comics that gave rise to the franchise.
It’s funny that the ppl talking the most about this show weren’t even conceived if you are post 1996 just say you like it or you don’t because unless you’ve painstakingly went through decades worth of source material and have a informed critique like😅 what are we talking about here